Re: gEDA-user: Audio processing
On 4/14/10 6:44 PM, John Doty wrote: Why is disentangling the chords any more difficult than looking at the frequency spectrum and picking out the peaks? Because a note isn't a pure tone. If you see 1319 Hz, is that E6 or the third harmonic of A4? The spectrum will contain many more peaks than there are notes. Then, you might have half a dozen instruments, some (guitar, piano, ...) emitting multiple notes. So, what chord is the guitar player playing? A I see, ok. I suppose they're nowhere near sinusoidal. I was thinking in those terms. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: command line options in the pcb manual
Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > But there is a HTML file of the manual, too. I'll upload when I am back > home. > There you go: http://lilalaser.de/tmp/pcb.html#Command_002dLine-Options ---<(kaimartin)>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Audio processing
Dave McGuire wrote: > Why is disentangling the chords any more difficult than looking at > the frequency spectrum and picking out the peaks? Because the every single note translates to a series of peaks. The spectrum of every note changes with time. The peaks are not clearly separate but overlap. If the guitar is properly tuned, many peaks are at the same frequency. To the unaided eye, the spectrum may not look much different from the time domain signal. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Audio processing
On Apr 14, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: > Why is disentangling the chords any more difficult than looking at the > frequency spectrum and picking out the peaks? Because a note isn't a pure tone. If you see 1319 Hz, is that E6 or the third harmonic of A4? The spectrum will contain many more peaks than there are notes. Then, you might have half a dozen instruments, some (guitar, piano, ...) emitting multiple notes. So, what chord is the guitar player playing? John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
On Apr 14, 2010, at 3:46 PM, Mike Bushroe wrote:
> I think it's far more important to have the symbol browser import
> symbols into the *project* (not the schematic) as they are selected,
> so they can be customized as necessary. And it should pop up an
> annoying information box reminding the user to check the symbol
> until the user turns the box off.
> John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
>
> If this means adding a footprint viewer and editor to the gschem
> application, and defining a default directory to store 'tweaked'
> footprints for that project (".", or .gaf/packages, etc) then I would
> still consider that a HUGE improvement over what we have to work with
> now.
No, that's not what I'm talking about. Footprints depend on the layout tool:
gschem is properly agnostic about what layout tool you're using.
John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
http://www.noqsi.com/
j...@noqsi.com
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Re: gEDA-user: Audio processing
On Apr 14, 2010, at 6:19 PM, asom...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, it is very difficult. But I can think of two ways to make it easier: 1) Get a MIDI guitar. Some companies make guitars that either use signal processing or buttons-as-frets to produce a MIDI output. 2) Get a guitar with independent pickups for each string. Some companies make acoustic-electric guitars with 6 outputs. That way you won't have to disentangle any chords. Why is disentangling the chords any more difficult than looking at the frequency spectrum and picking out the peaks? -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Audio processing
Yes, it is very difficult. But I can think of two ways to make it easier: 1) Get a MIDI guitar. Some companies make guitars that either use signal processing or buttons-as-frets to produce a MIDI output. 2) Get a guitar with independent pickups for each string. Some companies make acoustic-electric guitars with 6 outputs. That way you won't have to disentangle any chords. -Alan On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Eric Brombaugh wrote: > On 04/14/2010 03:00 PM, Miguel Sánchez de León Peque wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> Does anybody know something about chord processing? What I would like >> to do is to know which notes are played in a chord, realtime... Don't >> know if this is even possible. > > OT for this list, but... > > Yes, it's possible. Difficult though - the sort of thing that folks get many > $$$ for in the commercial software world. For example: > > http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=products_editor > > Suggest you ask this question on another list, for instance > > http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp > > Eric > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Audio processing
On Apr 14, 2010, at 6:00 PM, Miguel Sánchez de León Peque wrote: Hi all, Does anybody know something about chord processing? What I would like to do is to know which notes are played in a chord, realtime... Don't know if this is even possible. In particular, I'm working in [1]Performous as a developer, and I would like to add "real guitar" to the game. That means you plug in your guitar and you play the song with real notes (not the five fake notes as in "[2]Rock Band mode"), treating the guitar input as a voice track (so you see the pitch as [3]if you were singing). I've already tried this and works fine while playing single notes (solos, for example), but while playing chords, I always get too many harmonics and seems impossible to clean all of them and extract the main notes played in the chord. Is this possible? Via hardware or software, I don't mind. Don't know if I explained myself well (im not english... :-) ). I'd appreciate any help from you. Thanks in advance, Miguel References 1. http://performous.org/ 2. http://performous.org/screenshots/Performous-0.4.0-guitar.jpg 3. http://performous.org/screenshots/Performous-0.3.1-sing.jpg Hmm...Do an FFT on the input, and then fuzzy match the frequencies to notes? -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Audio processing
On 14/04/2010, Miguel Sánchez de León Peque wrote: >Hi all, >Does anybody know something about chord processing? What I would like >to do is to know which notes are played in a chord, realtime... Don't >know if this is even possible. Hi! talk to the guys at buenasenal.com.ar, I'm not really active at that mailing list but i feel confident that someone there knows about this. -- Adrian. http://elesquinazotango.com.ar http://www.noalcodigodescioli.blogspot.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Audio processing
On 04/14/2010 03:00 PM, Miguel Sánchez de León Peque wrote: Hi all, Does anybody know something about chord processing? What I would like to do is to know which notes are played in a chord, realtime... Don't know if this is even possible. OT for this list, but... Yes, it's possible. Difficult though - the sort of thing that folks get many $$$ for in the commercial software world. For example: http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=products_editor Suggest you ask this question on another list, for instance http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp Eric ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Audio processing
Hi all, Does anybody know something about chord processing? What I would like to do is to know which notes are played in a chord, realtime... Don't know if this is even possible. In particular, I'm working in [1]Performous as a developer, and I would like to add "real guitar" to the game. That means you plug in your guitar and you play the song with real notes (not the five fake notes as in "[2]Rock Band mode"), treating the guitar input as a voice track (so you see the pitch as [3]if you were singing). I've already tried this and works fine while playing single notes (solos, for example), but while playing chords, I always get too many harmonics and seems impossible to clean all of them and extract the main notes played in the chord. Is this possible? Via hardware or software, I don't mind. Don't know if I explained myself well (im not english... :-) ). I'd appreciate any help from you. Thanks in advance, Miguel References 1. http://performous.org/ 2. http://performous.org/screenshots/Performous-0.4.0-guitar.jpg 3. http://performous.org/screenshots/Performous-0.3.1-sing.jpg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
I think it's far more important to have the symbol browser import
symbols into the *project* (not the schematic) as they are selected,
so they can be customized as necessary. And it should pop up an
annoying information box reminding the user to check the symbol
until the user turns the box off.
John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
If this means adding a footprint viewer and editor to the gschem
application, and defining a default directory to store 'tweaked'
footprints for that project (".", or .gaf/packages, etc) then I would
still consider that a HUGE improvement over what we have to work with
now. I use gEDA on and off, so I do not get enough experience to
quickly and efficiently find, make, modify footprints. Having to run a
second window with pcb running does not help much, because what is
easily visible to pcb may not be in the predefined directory structure
of gschem, and therefore gsch2pcb. If there was a second library
function/window/file browser in gschem, then if it could find the file,
then I would be certain that gsch2pcb also would find it and it would
cut way down on the 'element not found, pcb board is incomplete' runs I
keep making.
Or perhaps just a script or tools that will help set up all the
resource files so that both programs access the same directories. I am
new enough to Linux that it is not always obvious to me that a resource
file is missing, has the wrong information, or the syntax is off and I
never see a warning message that it is wrong, only that my board is
once again incomplete.
Mike
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Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
Le mercredi 14 avril 2010 21:45:24, John Doty a écrit : >> Do such guidelines exist ? > >No, and they wouldn't work. The layout person is going to want numbers > matching their own tool and footprint library. There are no standards here. > The technician working on the board is going to want to see pin numbers > matching the manufacturer's data sheet, and manufacturers have no common > numbering scheme. gEDA can't unilaterally fix these problems. Got it, and that answers my question pretty well. > For a more complex project, I generally want some project-specific default > attributes like "footprint=0603" and "spec=1/16W,5%". The customer, layout > contractor, and application have an influence here. Now I understand why you make "per-project" libraries. Please bear with me, I'm just a hobbyist. I've never had to work with a contractor or manufacturer. -- Amand Tihon 13C Rue Arsène Matton, 1325 Dion-Valmont, Belgium +32 479 207 743 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
On Apr 14, 2010, at 12:27 PM, Amand Tihon wrote: > > I think that having common guidelines would keep both projects independant > but > ease symbols and footprints creation. > > For instance: > - Simple diode: anode is on pin 1. > - Polarized capacitor: "+" is on pin 1. > - Default TO-92 footprint is 1-2-3 when looking at the flat side, pins down > - etc. > > Do such guidelines exist ? No, and they wouldn't work. The layout person is going to want numbers matching their own tool and footprint library. There are no standards here. The technician working on the board is going to want to see pin numbers matching the manufacturer's data sheet, and manufacturers have no common numbering scheme. gEDA can't unilaterally fix these problems. > >> 3) There is consensus, that the current library is in poor shape. But >> there are diverging opinions how a good default library should look like. > > The net result seems to have been the creation of gedasymbols.org: a > collection of symbols, sometimes with matching footprints, that you still > cannot trust blindly because everyone has his own rules for pins numbering. You can *NEVER* trust a library symbol blindly. In any EDA system. Period. Get over it. > > John Doty said that the libraries shipped with gEDA should be used as > starting > points. I tend to think that gedasymbols.org makes a much better starting > point. > >> The default library of gschem is a known weakness. It was already in >> exactly the same shape in 2005 when I started to work with geda. > > Sadly, that matches my feelings about it. Feelings don't matter. It's like complaining that there's no solution for the general quintic equation using radicals. It's a "known weakness" of algebra, but it's also known to be unfixable, so move on. > >> I don't use the default lib and rely entirely on my homegrow symbols/ >> footprints. > > Does anyone actually use the stock symbols ? For a simple project there's nothing wrong with resistor-1.sym. For a more complex project, I generally want some project-specific default attributes like "footprint=0603" and "spec=1/16W,5%". The customer, layout contractor, and application have an influence here. > >> All my symbols contain a default footprint. One of my favourite >> feature requests is the ability to give a list of default footprints. > > Is that a feature worth working on (I'm a developer, electronics is a hobby) > ? > Or would such a patch be rejected without hope of being ever integrated ? I think it's far more important to have the symbol browser import symbols into the *project* (not the schematic) as they are selected, so they can be customized as necessary. And it should pop up an annoying information box reminding the user to check the symbol until the user turns the box off. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
Le mercredi 14 avril 2010 20:29:59, Dave N6NZ a écrit : > On Apr 14, 2010, at 10:18 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > > 3) There is consensus, that the current library is in poor shape. But > > there are diverging opinions how a good default library should look like. > > And I doubt there will ever be a "one size fits all" library. The > flexibility of the current system is it's strength, you can pretty much > always get what you want, or close enough. OTOH, the flexibility of the > current system causes no end of confusion to new users. I'm certainly not ranting about the symbols/footprints separation here. I understand very well that this flexibility is appreciated. > I think that there are probably different libraries for different user > communities. I can think of two footprint libraries right off: a) result > must be easy to hand solder -- either because the user is a hobbyist or > someone who wants to create kits for a hobbyist community where you want > good results to come easily, and b) result targets automated manufacturing > at low cost, using lots of SMT. The problem (as I see it from my humble point of view) is that the default libraries target none. Hobbyists will have a hard time finding matching footprints, lose time drawing new ones, and end with a board that fails the smoke test because of inconsistent pinout. I learnt it the hard way :) Pros will redraw a good amount of the symbols and footprints anyway, to have them match their SIGs. > Anyway, all that said, I think that is expecting a lot for the gEDA > community to form library SIGs around different design rule manifestos. > There just aren't enough of us to go around. For the time being we are > all Library SIGs of one person each :) :) Where I see guidelines could help is not in the design itself but on the properties of the symbols and footprints. If only I could download a footprint for a capacitor and be certain, without even checking, that the pinout would match the one used in the symbol I downloaded from somewhere else! Something like that would help. Currently, I cannot even trust the default library for that. Anyway, thank you for your time. I'll continue to make my own libraries :) -- Amand Tihon 13C Rue Arsène Matton, 1325 Dion-Valmont, Belgium +32 479 207 743 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: problems linking the GL-enabled version of pcb
On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 11:50 +, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Hi. > After I reinstalled the drivers of my nvidia graphcs card, the GL enabled > pcb version of Peter Clifton fails at link time. Error message is: > > /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lGL > collect2: ld returned 1 exit status > > This looks to me like the library libGL is missing. However, a run of > "configure" was fine with no errors and ldconfig can find libGL: > > $ sudo ldconfig -p|grep libGL.so > libGL.so.1 (libc6) => /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 > > What is missing on my desktop? libGL.so != libGL.so.1 Try a symlink between /usr/lib/libGL.so to libGL.so.1 NB: On my box, which is Intel GFX, hence uses the mesa GL drivers: sudo ldconfig -p|grep libGL.so libGL.so.1 (libc6) => /usr/lib/mesa/libGL.so.1 libGL.so (libc6) => /usr/lib/mesa/libGL.so libGL.so (libc6) => /usr/lib/libGL.so pc...@pcjc2lap:~$ ls -l /usr/lib/libGL.so lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 2010-04-14 17:57 /usr/lib/libGL.so -> mesa/libGL.so -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: problems linking the GL-enabled version of pcb
Well, I had some doubts the first time I did this, but never thought of a big risk in doing so. Just a problem of finding symbols or something. Need to learn more on this. For me this is just a (working)workaround since I have never seen libGL.a being available from nvidia's propietary drivers. Don't know how ld does the magic to link statically with a dinamic library. Would be great to know the right way to solve this issue. Best Regards, Felipe. -- Felipe De la Puente Christen Mobile Phone: +56 9 93199807 MSN/GTalk : fdelapue...@gmail.com On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 14:12 -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:31 AM, Felipe De la Puente Christen wrote: > > Hi, It seems that the linker is looking for libGL.a > > > > A symlink from libGL.a to libGL.so(or the file it points to) should > > work. > >Whoa there, Sparky...a .a file and a .so file are VERY different > kinds of files and are not interchangeable! Depending on how the > linker is called, this MIGHT make it link properly (as the linker > will recognize the difference and link that library statically vs. > dynamically) but this could cause very serious breakage elsewhere in > the system. Bad idea! > >-Dave > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
Le mercredi 14 avril 2010 19:12:59, John Griessen a écrit : > They may be unusable as is, but you can use the pcb command window to > change drill sizes of groups of selected pins, vias. Example commands > for that: > > ChangeDrillSize(SelectedObjects, 32, mil ) > ChangeSize(SelectedObjects, 62.0, mil ) I was about to reply that it wouldn't change the size of my oval pads, but on second thought, it shouldn't be an issue at all. Thanks. -- Amand Tihon 13C Rue Arsène Matton, 1325 Dion-Valmont, Belgium +32 479 207 743 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
On Apr 14, 2010, at 10:18 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote:
>
> 3) There is consensus, that the current library is in poor shape. But
> there are diverging opinions how a good default library should look like.
>
And I doubt there will ever be a "one size fits all" library. The flexibility
of the current system is it's strength, you can pretty much always get what you
want, or close enough. OTOH, the flexibility of the current system causes no
end of confusion to new users.
I think that there are probably different libraries for different user
communities. I can think of two footprint libraries right off: a) result must
be easy to hand solder -- either because the user is a hobbyist or someone who
wants to create kits for a hobbyist community where you want good results to
come easily, and b) result targets automated manufacturing at low cost, using
lots of SMT.
And when it comes to symbols, then it gets into religious arguments :) I like
symbols that might pass for ANSI compliant. And I split the
power/ground/infrastructure into a second block. Either of those ideas can make
other people wince. So it gets tangled up in methodology arguments, too.
So, in an ideal world, I could see having different communities ("Library
SIGs") support different libraries. A community/library being defined by a
list of design rules and methodology guidelines.
Anyway, all that said, I think that is expecting a lot for the gEDA community
to form library SIGs around different design rule manifestos. There just
aren't enough of us to go around. For the time being we are all Library SIGs
of one person each :)
-dave
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Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
Le mercredi 14 avril 2010 19:18:19, Kai-Martin Knaak a écrit : > On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 18:41:44 +0200, Amand Tihon wrote: > > It could be due to my distribution (Debian), but I always get lost in > > the symbols and footprints libraries that come with gEDA. Finding the > > right footprint with correct pin numbering has always been a challenge. > > You are not the only one. This is consequence of a number of unresolved > issues: > > 1) Unlike other EDA applications, there is no notion of a "package" that > contains both: symbols and footprints. Well, I've never used any other EDA application. I imagine packages could help if well designed, but then there's your point 2). > 2) gschem and pcb are historically distinct. There are strong forces in > the developer community that discourage any closer relationship between > than the current import-export. I think that having common guidelines would keep both projects independant but ease symbols and footprints creation. For instance: - Simple diode: anode is on pin 1. - Polarized capacitor: "+" is on pin 1. - Default TO-92 footprint is 1-2-3 when looking at the flat side, pins down - etc. Do such guidelines exist ? > 3) There is consensus, that the current library is in poor shape. But > there are diverging opinions how a good default library should look like. The net result seems to have been the creation of gedasymbols.org: a collection of symbols, sometimes with matching footprints, that you still cannot trust blindly because everyone has his own rules for pins numbering. John Doty said that the libraries shipped with gEDA should be used as starting points. I tend to think that gedasymbols.org makes a much better starting point. > The default library of gschem is a known weakness. It was already in > exactly the same shape in 2005 when I started to work with geda. Sadly, that matches my feelings about it. > I don't use the default lib and rely entirely on my homegrow symbols/ > footprints. Does anyone actually use the stock symbols ? > All my symbols contain a default footprint. One of my favourite > feature requests is the ability to give a list of default footprints. Is that a feature worth working on (I'm a developer, electronics is a hobby) ? Or would such a patch be rejected without hope of being ever integrated ? > > I'm now slowly building my own libraries of footprints and heavy-wheight > > symbols, to avoid mismatch between symbols and footprints. > > Please consider uploading them in your own section at gedasymbols.org :-) I will. Thanks for your answers. -- Amand Tihon 13C Rue Arsène Matton, 1325 Dion-Valmont, Belgium +32 479 207 743 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: problems linking the GL-enabled version of pcb
On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:31 AM, Felipe De la Puente Christen wrote: Hi, It seems that the linker is looking for libGL.a A symlink from libGL.a to libGL.so(or the file it points to) should work. Whoa there, Sparky...a .a file and a .so file are VERY different kinds of files and are not interchangeable! Depending on how the linker is called, this MIGHT make it link properly (as the linker will recognize the difference and link that library statically vs. dynamically) but this could cause very serious breakage elsewhere in the system. Bad idea! -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: command line options in the pcb manual
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:48:38 -0500, John Griessen wrote: > When I tried to grab text from the pdf you created, I got only > undisplayable characters. Yes. Same here. :-| > That's unusual. Better to get something you > can cut and paste... The PDF was created by the pcb source during make. I guess, the special properties of the PDF are consequence of the way it is built with texinfo. It seems to go the traditional way with an intermediate *.dvi, and *.ps, rather than doing it in one step with pdftex. But there is a HTML file of the maual, too. I'll upload when I am back home. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmk&op=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 18:41:44 +0200, Amand Tihon wrote: > It could be due to my distribution (Debian), but I always get lost in > the symbols and footprints libraries that come with gEDA. Finding the > right footprint with correct pin numbering has always been a challenge. You are not the only one. This is consequence of a number of unresolved issues: 1) Unlike other EDA applications, there is no notion of a "package" that contains both: symbols and footprints. 2) gschem and pcb are historically distinct. There are strong forces in the developer community that discourage any closer relationship between than the current import-export. 3) There is consensus, that the current library is in poor shape. But there are diverging opinions how a good default library should look like. > For instance, there are 3 different LED symbols. One in "Basic devices", > two in "Diodes (generic)". Two of them have the anode on pin 1, the > third one has it on pin 2. > When trying to find a footprint for it, there are more than five for > each of 3mm and 5mm LEDs. For *none* of them does the silkscreen > indicate the position of the anode or cathode. LED3 and LED5 from > pcblib/~geda actually present this information in their > name/description: "(pin 1 is +, 2 is-)". In pcblib/~optical, however, > the squared pin is named "-" (in red in preview, still not on the > silkscreen). The default library of gschem is a known weakness. It was already in exactly the same shape in 2005 when I started to work with geda. > How do you usually handle this ? I don't use the default lib and rely entirely on my homegrow symbols/ footprints. See my section on gedasymbols.org. > Maybe you are able to remember what > footprint will match which symbol, but I don't use gEDA often enough for > that. No. All my symbols contain a default footprint. One of my favourite feature requests is the ability to give a list of default footprints. > Or do you build your libraries of symbols and footprints that you > *know* (or hope) are correct ? yes. > Perhaps the state of the SMDs footprints is not that bad ? > > I'm now slowly building my own libraries of footprints and heavy-wheight > symbols, to avoid mismatch between symbols and footprints. Please consider uploading them in your own section at gedasymbols.org :-) ---<)kaiamrtin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmk&op=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
Amand Tihon wrote: Hi everyone. It could be due to my distribution (Debian), but I always get lost in the symbols and footprints libraries that come with gEDA. There are even more at gedasymbols.org and luciani.org For *none* of them does the silkscreen indicate the position of the anode or cathode. Or do you build your libraries of symbols and footprints that you *know* (or hope) are correct ? Yes. There has been talk of somehow proofreading symbol/footprint pairs for correct netlisting and good soldering, but it has not evolved into anything very complete -- just what you can find on individual pages of sites above. Perhaps the state of the SMDs footprints is not that bad ? I amusing a plc44 from there. It seems good dimensions. DJ, (and many here probably), prints out pdf of layout and "tries out" parts for fit on it. I'm now slowly building my own libraries of footprints and heavy-wheight symbols, to avoid mismatch between symbols and footprints. I found parts of a workflow and changed it to suit me that lets you keep local libraries easily. See if you like this: http://cottagematic.com/examples/ With a project directory approach like in that tarball, you could change your local ./pcb.settings file to reference a different subdirectory of footprints with the same names to have a pcb layout with smaller holes for manufacturing. I'm not remembering how the referencing of different footprints works in pcb -- it may be the footprints are sort of embedded and you have to reset that somehow -- needs some reading the pcb manual. Another reason I'm doing it is because I drill the holes by hand whithout any drill-stand: my footprints have large (60 or 80 mil) pins that allow for some imprecision, with 15 mil drill hole to have the drill bit position itself right on spot, thanks to the copper thickness :) The drawback is that those footprints are obviously unusable if I ever need to have a board manufactured. They may be unusable as is, but you can use the pcb command window to change drill sizes of groups of selected pins, vias. Example commands for that: ChangeDrillSize(SelectedObjects, 32, mil ) ChangeSize(SelectedObjects, 62.0, mil ) John ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
On Apr 14, 2010, at 10:41 AM, Amand Tihon wrote: > Hi everyone. > > I'm new to this list, and a very occasional gschem/pcb user. I make probably > one or two small boards per year, single layer. Most of the time using > through-hole components because that's what available at my local shop. > > My question may sound silly or may even have been asked countless times: Yep. And the problem is that we downplay the truth: the library symbols are only starting points, not sensibly used as-is. > > Are there any official guidelines for naming/numbering pins and pads on > symbols and footprints ? Some packages have an obvious numbering like DIP, > but > what about capacitors, diodes, transistors, etc. ? > > It could be due to my distribution (Debian), but I always get lost in the > symbols and footprints libraries that come with gEDA. Finding the right > footprint with correct pin numbering has always been a challenge. Yep. The problem afflicts all EDA systems because there are no universal standards for the physical parts. One even encounters DIP packages with reversed numbers occasionally (Minicircuits). > > For instance, there are 3 different LED symbols. One in "Basic devices", two > in "Diodes (generic)". Two of them have the anode on pin 1, the third one has > it on pin 2. > When trying to find a footprint for it, there are more than five for each of > 3mm and 5mm LEDs. For *none* of them does the silkscreen indicate the > position > of the anode or cathode. LED3 and LED5 from pcblib/~geda actually present > this > information in their name/description: "(pin 1 is +, 2 is-)". > In pcblib/~optical, however, the squared pin is named "-" (in red in preview, > still not on the silkscreen). > > How do you usually handle this ? Copy the symbol file into the project's symbol directory and edit it to match my project's parts and design flow. Might be nice for beginners if the GUI did the copy, although it's trivial from command line. > Maybe you are able to remember what footprint > will match which symbol, but I don't use gEDA often enough for that. > Or do you build your libraries of symbols and footprints that you *know* (or > hope) are correct ? > Perhaps the state of the SMDs footprints is not that bad ? > > I'm now slowly building my own libraries of footprints and heavy-wheight > symbols, to avoid mismatch between symbols and footprints. > > Another reason I'm doing it is because I drill the holes by hand whithout any > drill-stand: my footprints have large (60 or 80 mil) pins that allow for some > imprecision, with 15 mil drill hole to have the drill bit position itself > right on spot, thanks to the copper thickness :) > The drawback is that those footprints are obviously unusable if I ever need > to > have a board manufactured. > > Thanks for your answers. > > -- > Amand Tihon > 13C Rue Arsène Matton, 1325 Dion-Valmont, Belgium > +32 479 207 743 > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Matching footprints with symbols
Hi everyone. I'm new to this list, and a very occasional gschem/pcb user. I make probably one or two small boards per year, single layer. Most of the time using through-hole components because that's what available at my local shop. My question may sound silly or may even have been asked countless times: Are there any official guidelines for naming/numbering pins and pads on symbols and footprints ? Some packages have an obvious numbering like DIP, but what about capacitors, diodes, transistors, etc. ? It could be due to my distribution (Debian), but I always get lost in the symbols and footprints libraries that come with gEDA. Finding the right footprint with correct pin numbering has always been a challenge. For instance, there are 3 different LED symbols. One in "Basic devices", two in "Diodes (generic)". Two of them have the anode on pin 1, the third one has it on pin 2. When trying to find a footprint for it, there are more than five for each of 3mm and 5mm LEDs. For *none* of them does the silkscreen indicate the position of the anode or cathode. LED3 and LED5 from pcblib/~geda actually present this information in their name/description: "(pin 1 is +, 2 is-)". In pcblib/~optical, however, the squared pin is named "-" (in red in preview, still not on the silkscreen). How do you usually handle this ? Maybe you are able to remember what footprint will match which symbol, but I don't use gEDA often enough for that. Or do you build your libraries of symbols and footprints that you *know* (or hope) are correct ? Perhaps the state of the SMDs footprints is not that bad ? I'm now slowly building my own libraries of footprints and heavy-wheight symbols, to avoid mismatch between symbols and footprints. Another reason I'm doing it is because I drill the holes by hand whithout any drill-stand: my footprints have large (60 or 80 mil) pins that allow for some imprecision, with 15 mil drill hole to have the drill bit position itself right on spot, thanks to the copper thickness :) The drawback is that those footprints are obviously unusable if I ever need to have a board manufactured. Thanks for your answers. -- Amand Tihon 13C Rue Arsène Matton, 1325 Dion-Valmont, Belgium +32 479 207 743 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: command line options in the pcb manual
Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 02:43:04 +0200, kai-martin knaak wrote: I put the command line section of the manual with comments extracted from source to my webspace: http://lilalaser.de/tmp/pcb_commandline_options.pdf A patch for extract-docs produced by "git format-patch -1" is attached Anything I should tweak, to get this set of patches applied? Nothing? Did any you developers look at the patch? Every response welcome (and better than none). I tested that --lib-newlib works recently. When I tried to grab text from the pdf you created, I got only undisplayable characters. That's unusual. Better to get something you can cut and paste... John ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: command line options in the pcb manual
> Nothing? > Did any you developers look at the patch? > Every response welcome (and better than none). No time yet, sorry. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: problems linking the GL-enabled version of pcb
Hi, It seems that the linker is looking for libGL.a A symlink from libGL.a to libGL.so(or the file it points to) should work. Best Regards, Felipe. -- Felipe De la Puente Christen Mobile Phone: +56 9 93199807 MSN/GTalk : fdelapue...@gmail.com On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 11:50 +, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Hi. > After I reinstalled the drivers of my nvidia graphcs card, the GL enabled > pcb version of Peter Clifton fails at link time. Error message is: > > /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lGL > collect2: ld returned 1 exit status > > This looks to me like the library libGL is missing. However, a run of > "configure" was fine with no errors and ldconfig can find libGL: > > $ sudo ldconfig -p|grep libGL.so > libGL.so.1 (libc6) => /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 > > What is missing on my desktop? > > ---<)kaimartin(>--- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: problems linking the GL-enabled version of pcb
Hi. After I reinstalled the drivers of my nvidia graphcs card, the GL enabled pcb version of Peter Clifton fails at link time. Error message is: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lGL collect2: ld returned 1 exit status This looks to me like the library libGL is missing. However, a run of "configure" was fine with no errors and ldconfig can find libGL: $ sudo ldconfig -p|grep libGL.so libGL.so.1 (libc6) => /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 What is missing on my desktop? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmk&op=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: command line options in the pcb manual
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 02:43:04 +0200, kai-martin knaak wrote: > I put the command line section of the manual with comments extracted > from source to my webspace: > http://lilalaser.de/tmp/pcb_commandline_options.pdf > > A patch for extract-docs produced by "git format-patch -1" is attached > to this mail. There are of course numerous further patches that add > special comments to the source. > > Anything I should tweak, to get this set of patches applied? Nothing? Did any you developers look at the patch? Every response welcome (and better than none). ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmk&op=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Footprint with asymmetric solder mask
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 22:44:30 +0200, Tamas Szabo wrote: > Anyway isn't it a problem that which pad is on the top of another one? No. Composite footprints just work. In the end it is just copper to the gerber export. My most complicated is a footprint for MMIC HF apmplifiers with pads on both sides of the board and vias to provide sufficient heat drain: http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/footprints/specific/MINICIRCUITS_MMIC.fp ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmk&op=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
