Re: gEDA-user: Laser diode operation?

[Robert Butts]

Would a string of these work for each laser?  The Battery would be 5 vdc.

  Battery(+) o--++
 |  |
   _|_ __|__
  PD /_\ _\_/_ LD
 |   |
   Ipd| |  Ild| |
   v |v |
 |   |
  R1   | |/ E
  +--/\/\--+-| Q1 PNP
   |   1K|\ C
  /  |
   VR1 \<-+ |
S110K /   |  |
Power  \   |  |
 _|_  |   |  |
 Battery(-) oo o---+--+--+

In this case, the power output is determined by the equation:

 Vbatt - (Ipd  * (R1 + VR1)) = Vld + Vbe1

Or:

   Vbatt - Vld - Vbe1
Ipd = 
R1 + VR1

Where:


   - Vbatt = battery voltage under load.
   - Ipd = total photodiode current.
   - Vld = voltage across the laser diode.
   - Vbe1 = Base-emitter drop (.7 V) of Q1.

Since Ipd is proportional to optical power output, like LP-LD1 and LP-LD2
(above), brightness is dependent on battery voltage. In this case, it is a
much more non-linear relationship as Vld and Vbe1 set a threshold of about 2
to 2.5 V below which there will be nothing and then output will increase
based on Vbatt/(R1 + VR1). The circuit operates on 3 V but 4.5 V seems like
the minimum to get any decent output.


On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:15:03 -0400, Robert Butts wrote:
>
> > I'm using ten of these and parallel.  I WAS going to just use a 1 amp 5
> > vdc power supply with a 2.8 V zener diode to adjust the voltage to 2.2
> > V.  I take it this is too simple.
>
> It is. You need to protect the diodes from over current rather than over
> voltage. Laser diodes will die in micro seconds, when exposed to over
> current. A proven design is to use an adjustable voltage regulators as a
> current limiter. See the bottom of page 18 of the data sheet by national
> for this rather simple circuit:
>http://cache.national.com/ds/LM/LM117.pdf
> Each laser diode needs its own protection.
>
> ---<(kaimartin)>---
> --
> Kai-Martin Knaak
> http://lilalaser.de/blog
>
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: Laser diode operation?

[Robert Butts]

Woe...

I'm using ten of these and parallel.  I WAS going to just use a 1 amp 5 vdc
power supply with a 2.8 V zener diode to adjust the voltage to 2.2 V.  I
take it this is too simple.



On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 10:46 PM, Mike Jarabek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Robert Butts wrote:
> >
> > Below is the link to the datasheet of a laser diode in using.  It's
> > not clear how I would wire this.  Any suggestions on how to wire these?
> >
> > Digikey link:
> >
> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=67-1500-ND
> >
> > Datasheet link: http://www.lumex.com/pdf/OED-LDP65001E.pdf
> >
> > <http://www.lumex.com/pdf/OED-LDP65001E.pdfTG%20keenly>
> These devices usually have a laser diode and a PIN diode facing the back
> facet of the main diode.  The PIN diode is to sense the power output of
> the main diode, and can be used in a control loop to servo it.  The data
> sheet shows the current through the PIN diode when the laser is
> operating at 5mW, this information can be used to design a control circuit.
>
> The terminals you are interested in for the main diode are the ones
> labled LD+ and LD-.  The PIN diode is connected across the terminals
> labled PD+ and PD-.  (The + is probably the anode and the - is the
> cathode.)
>
> The typical circuit to drive one of these things is a constant current
> source,  I have seen circuits that have an op-amp that controls a FET
> with a series resistance on the ground side to measure the current, and
> feed it back to be compared to a reference control voltage.  If you can
> get your hands on a dollar store laser pointer, you will probably find a
> simple circuit with a single transistor to limit the current, this will
> probably work fine but won't protect against the thing
> self-destructing.  Either the sense resistor or the current from the PIN
> diode (or both) can be fed back to control the output power.
>
> You do have to be a bit careful with the voltage and current on one of
> these things, if the power gets to high they run away and self
> destruct.  Don't exceed the operating voltage or current with your
> current source. Don't hook it up backwards, as this will also wreck it.
>
> You will also need some optics as the beam coming out of this device
> won't be colimated.  Note too that the beam is quite oval shaped, 9
> degrees in the horizontal and 35 degrees in the vertical.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
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gEDA-user: Laser diode operation?

[Robert Butts]

Below is the link to the datasheet of a laser diode in using.  It's not
clear how I would wire this.  Any suggestions on how to wire these?

Digikey link:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=67-1500-ND
Datasheet link: http://www.lumex.com/pdf/OED-LDP65001E.pdf




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Re: gEDA-user: Need opinion on O-scope

[Robert Butts]

Hey John,

Thanks for the offer and I'll let you know.  I just spent a load of cash on
a backrest mold that came out wrong.  If you know microchip and have worked
with their ICD2 I would have you take a look at some code.  I'm having
trouble coding a dsPIC to control an h-bridge for a cold-plate design.

Thanks,
Rob

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 8:07 PM, John Griessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Robert Butts wrote:
> > I found an oscilloscope on ebay
>
> HI Robert,
>
>
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/TEKTRONIX-7844-DUAL-BEAM-OSCILLOSCOPE_W0QQitemZ180280369955QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180280369955&_trkparms=39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A15|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
>
> I like my 7844 for comparing two traces that are fast.  It is two
> cathode rays in one tube, and you can line up the two, (change their
> offset), for side by side comparing.  The fact that there are two sets
> of controls on the mainframe is confusing though...  As in vertical bay
> to trigger from selector A and  vertical bay to trigger from selector B ...
> Intensity A and B...
> Horiz sweep bay selector A and B.
>
> There are three 7603's for sale cheap in both rack mount layout and
> vertical box, ( $70 to $100 shipped), but not from a "engineer type"
> seller.  The one I have is down at the moment, but people on tekscopes
> are ready to help me debug it.
>
> 7603'sjust have three plugin bays, so they're simple to operate.  NOne
> of the above confusions for you or your helper turning the knobs.
>
> You could buy a few as a gamble and pass along the broken ones to
> whoever is helping you with the physical part of using these scopes with
> knobs.
>
>
>
>
> If you are thinking of turning knobs on plugins and mainframes with a
> mouth stick, some of them are fairly high torque.  The volts/div knobs
> are  high torque.
>
>
> If you want to hire some mods made to a scope you choose, you can ask
> me.   I am in odd jobs mode now after a bankruptcy to pay for some
> product development.  I would rather do some Tek scope repair and
> checkout than remodeling work.  That's closer to spending time in my lab
> on my ecosensory stuff than refurbishing well-off-folks's homes.
>
>
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gEDA-user: Symbol howto question?

[Robert Butts]

I have a symvbol/footprint on gedasymbols.org I want to use at:

http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/symbols/analog/diode/photodiode_TO18.sym

What do I do with this file and how do I get the symbol into my system?


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gEDA-user: Need opinion on O-scope

[Robert Butts]

I found an oscilloscope on ebay that the asuction ends tonight.  At the risk
of gettting someone else interested in it it's at this link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tektronix-7854-400-Mhz-Digital-Analog-Oscilloscope_W0QQitemZ170253977697QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item170253977697&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

It's been years so I'm asking everyones input on this scope.

Thanks!


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gEDA-user: Poor man's O-scope?

[Robert Butts]

Does anyone have a good source, other than ebay, for cheap (possibly used or
refurbished) oscilloscopes?


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Re: gEDA-user: home-made pcb

[Robert Butts]

What type of paper do you print on?  Is it necessary to use a laser printer
or can I use an inkjet photo-printer?  Can I use an iron instead of a
laminator?

On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 1:50 PM, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> > What gerber files do I have print to make a home-made card?  Is
> > there a tutorial somewhere?
>
> Depending on how you make them, you either want postscript or PNG
> exports from PCB.  I use postscript for TT because my laser printer
> knows postscript, and PNG for photofilm because the inkjet gets its
> prints from the Gimp.
>
> In general, you want the top and bottom copper prints, and maybe the
> two silkscreens.  The FAB drawing helps with manual drilling.  If you
> make your own paste stencil, you need the paste layer too.
>
>
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gEDA-user: home-made pcb

[Robert Butts]

What gerber files do I have print to make a home-made card?  Is there a
tutorial somewhere?


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gEDA-user: Using Gerbv

[Robert Butts]

I want to use gerbv to print a layout to a pdf file.  I can't find any
manual for how to do this.  How do I use garbv to print out to a .pdf file?

Also, is making a home made two-sided board the same as DJ's one sided but
ironing both solder masks on their respective sides?


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Re: gEDA-user: printing gerbers in windows

[Robert Butts]

Can I print out the gerbers on a ink-jet photo printer?

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Philipp Klaus Krause <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

> Robert Butts schrieb:
> > I can't get my printer working yet in Linux and was wondering, in the
> > interum, is there a way to print gerbers in windows?  I'd like to make a
> > quick two-sided pcb.
>
> Print to a file in Linux. This will give you a .ps or .pdf. You can
> convert the .ps to a .pdf. Print the .pdf in Windows.
>
> Philipp
>
>
>
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gEDA-user: printing gerbers in windows

[Robert Butts]

I can't get my printer working yet in Linux and was wondering, in the
interum, is there a way to print gerbers in windows?  I'd like to make a
quick two-sided pcb.

Thanks


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Re: gEDA-user: gsch2pcb stuck

[Robert Butts]

I'm all set.  I just got them from gedasymbols.org

Thanks

On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 6:47 PM, Stuart Brorson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I seem to recall that M4 gets stuck on footprint names with a - in
> them.  Try TO18 or TO_18.
>
> Stuart
>
>
> On Sun, 17 Aug 2008, Robert Butts wrote:
>
> > I think the problem is in the footprints.  For to TO-18 I wrote TO-18 and
> > I'm thinking gsch2pcb is getting stuck there.
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 6:25 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>> I'm trying to run a very simple schematic thru gsch2pcb and it's
> getting
> >>> stuck.  The printout says: using the m4 processor for pcb footprints
> >>
> >> Are you using newlib (file type) or M4 footprints?  I rename the
> directory
> >> for  the M4 stuff and only use newlib footprints that I create.
> >>
> >> Does gsch2pcb stop at a point and tell you the results of it's job?
> >>
> >>> Aside
> >>> from that it's just a thru hole definition.  Any ideas?
> >>
> >> This shouldn't make any difference.
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: gsch2pcb stuck

[Robert Butts]

I think the problem is in the footprints.  For to TO-18 I wrote TO-18 and
I'm thinking gsch2pcb is getting stuck there.

On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 6:25 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > I'm trying to run a very simple schematic thru gsch2pcb and it's getting
> > stuck.  The printout says: using the m4 processor for pcb footprints
>
> Are you using newlib (file type) or M4 footprints?  I rename the directory
> for  the M4 stuff and only use newlib footprints that I create.
>
> Does gsch2pcb stop at a point and tell you the results of it's job?
>
> > Aside
> > from that it's just a thru hole definition.  Any ideas?
>
> This shouldn't make any difference.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
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gEDA-user: gsch2pcb stuck

[Robert Butts]

I'm trying to run a very simple schematic thru gsch2pcb and it's getting
stuck.  The printout says: using the m4 processor for pcb footprints

Then just sits there.  The footprints I'm using are TO-18 AND DO-35.  Aside
from that it's just a thru hole definition.  Any ideas?


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gEDA-user: best ways to do SMT assembly

[Robert Butts]

I'm sorry to start a new thread on this, I can't find saved mail I've seen
before.

I got pcbs back and now want to assemble them.  What is the best way, i.e.
solder paste to use, heating method, solder bridge removal...?  Most of the
components are small SMT parts.  The through hole parts I'm fine with.

Thanks


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gEDA-user: Linux Zip application

[Robert Butts]

What Linux application can I use to zip gerbers into that works with
4pcb.com?


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gEDA-user: Trouble with a footprint

[Robert Butts]

I'm having trouble defining a footprint for a 1206 smt reverse mounted
led.  My trouble is defining the footprint to the spec yet maintaining
4pcb's footprint requirements.  If I understand this footprint I think
I'll be able to define mine.

Here's the one I got from geada symbols:

Element["" "" "" "" 157480 59055 0 0 0 100 ""]

(

Pin[0 0 13000 2000 13600 11811 "" "1" "edge2"]
Pad[-11811 0 -9842 0 4000 5600 9600 "2" "2" "square"]
Pad[9843 0 11811 0 4000 2000 6000 "1" "1" "square,edge2"]
ElementLine [-6693 -5118 -6693 5118 1000]
ElementLine [-8858 -7874 -8858 -2953 1000]
ElementLine [8858 7874 8858 2953 1000]
ElementLine [1181 0 -1181 0 600]
ElementLine [-8858 7874 8858 7874 1000]
ElementLine [-8858 2953 -8858 7874 1000]
ElementLine [8858 -7874 8858 -2953 1000]
ElementLine [8858 -7874 -8858 -7874 1000]
ElementLine [0 -1181 0 1181 600]
)


This defines a reverse mounted led.  I got this from
http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/footprints/specific/BPW34S_upsidedown.fp

>From this aren't the pads inside, or on, the hole created by the pin?
Wouldn't the annular short the pads?  How I read this is, you have a 6
mil thick annular with an inside diameter of 130 mils.

Also, the way I understand the mask isn't the mask inside, or on, the annular?


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gEDA-user: Can someone explain this footprint?

[Robert Butts]

I'm having trouble defining a footprint for a 1206 smt reverse mounted
led.  My trouble is defining the footprint to the spec yet maintaining
4pcb's footprint requirements.  If I understand this footprint I think
I'll be able to define mine.

Here's the one I got from geada symbols:

Element["" "" "" "" 157480 59055 0 0 0 100 ""]

(

Pin[0 0 13000 2000 13600 11811 "" "1" "edge2"]
Pad[-11811 0 -9842 0 4000 5600 9600 "2" "2" "square"]
Pad[9843 0 11811 0 4000 2000 6000 "1" "1" "square,edge2"]
ElementLine [-6693 -5118 -6693 5118 1000]
ElementLine [-8858 -7874 -8858 -2953 1000]
ElementLine [8858 7874 8858 2953 1000]
ElementLine [1181 0 -1181 0 600]
ElementLine [-8858 7874 8858 7874 1000]
ElementLine [-8858 2953 -8858 7874 1000]
ElementLine [8858 -7874 8858 -2953 1000]
ElementLine [8858 -7874 -8858 -7874 1000]
ElementLine [0 -1181 0 1181 600]
)



This defines a reverse mounted led.  I got this from
http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/kai_martin_knaak/footprints/specific/BPW34S_upsidedown.fp

>From this aren't the pads inside, or on, the hole created by the pin?
Wouldn't the annular short the pads?  How I read this is, you have a 6
mil thick annular with an inside diameter of 130 mils.

Also, the way I understand the mask isn't the mask inside the annular?


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Re: gEDA-user: Orange pads & pins in pcb

[Robert Butts]

Could that mean I have components packed too tightly?

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:20 PM, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> That means that there's a short somewhere on your board, relative to
> your netlist.  You need to fix the short, re-optimize your rats, and
> then try to route.
>
>
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gEDA-user: Orange pads & pins in pcb

[Robert Butts]

When I optimize the rats in pcb three pads and one pin turns orange and no
rat is routed.  I assume pcb can't route a rat, how do I get around this?


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Re: gEDA-user: Can I inspect component pin definitions in PCB

[Robert Butts]

These footprints are my own definitions and in my gaf/pcb-elements folder.
I've chaged the footprints in the .fp file but pcb doesn't see the change
even after rerunning gsch2pcb.  How do I get pcb to recognize the change in
the updated footprints?

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 11:54 AM, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Two ways to update footprints...
>
> 1. delete the footprint in pcb, run gsch2pcb
>
> 2. Find the new footprint in the pcb library dialog, shift-click to
>   place it over the old one, it replaces the old one.
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: Can I inspect component pin definitions in PCB

[Robert Butts]

I just found out how to do a ctrl-r so I'm all set with inspecting pin
definitions in PCB.  How do I update footprints in PCB?

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Robert Butts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Can I click on a component in PCB and find out what pin attributes are set
> to, i.e. pin definition values?  I have some components failing DFM on
> 4pcb.com and I'm trying to correct the footprints and would like to verify
> they are changed before generating gerbers and resubmitting to DFM.
>
> When I change the footprints I then update the component in gschem and redo
> gsch2pcb.  Because there are no new components PCBs not telling me to reload
> new.pcb and net files.  Is this how I update footprints in gaf?
>
>
>
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gEDA-user: Can I inspect component pin definitions in PCB

[Robert Butts]

Can I click on a component in PCB and find out what pin attributes are set
to, i.e. pin definition values?  I have some components failing DFM on
4pcb.com and I'm trying to correct the footprints and would like to verify
they are changed before generating gerbers and resubmitting to DFM.

When I change the footprints I then update the component in gschem and redo
gsch2pcb.  Because there are no new components PCBs not telling me to reload
new.pcb and net files.  Is this how I update footprints in gaf?


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gEDA-user: Hints to get ALL rats to route

[Robert Butts]

I have one rat that I can't get to route.  Are there any tricks to get it to
route?


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Re: gEDA-user: Help ordering pcb

[Robert Butts]

One of the pcb websites claims one common gerber mistake is a missing
aperture list.  What is this and does PCB create it?

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Robert Butts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Do I need the unplated-drill.cnc file?
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 9:49 AM, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> > What is the stencil layer?  A pcb fab company wants me to identify the
>> top
>> > stencil, bottom stencil and outline layer.  Which gerber files are
>> these?
>>
>> Stencil is probably the silkscreen layer, assuming you can figure out
>> the other ones are copper and solder mask.  For outline, if you don't
>> have an explicit outline layer, use the fabrication drawing.
>>
>> board.front.gbr
>>front side copper
>>
>> board.frontmask.gbr
>>front side solder (stop) mask
>>
>> board.frontpaste.gbr
>>front side paste mask
>>
>> board.frontsilk.gbr
>>front side silk (stencil or ink)
>>
>> board.back.gbr
>>solder side copper
>>
>> board.backmask.gbr
>>solder side solder (stop) mask
>>
>> board.backpaste.gbr
>>solder side paste mask
>>
>> board.backsilk.gbr
>>solder side silk (stencil or ink)
>>
>> board.fab.gbr
>>fabrication drawing (human readable, includes outline and drill
>> makers)
>>
>> board.plated-drill.cnc
>>drills for plated-through holes
>>
>>
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Re: gEDA-user: Help ordering pcb

[Robert Butts]

Do I need the unplated-drill.cnc file?

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 9:49 AM, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> > What is the stencil layer?  A pcb fab company wants me to identify the
> top
> > stencil, bottom stencil and outline layer.  Which gerber files are these?
>
> Stencil is probably the silkscreen layer, assuming you can figure out
> the other ones are copper and solder mask.  For outline, if you don't
> have an explicit outline layer, use the fabrication drawing.
>
> board.front.gbr
>front side copper
>
> board.frontmask.gbr
>front side solder (stop) mask
>
> board.frontpaste.gbr
>front side paste mask
>
> board.frontsilk.gbr
>front side silk (stencil or ink)
>
> board.back.gbr
>solder side copper
>
> board.backmask.gbr
>solder side solder (stop) mask
>
> board.backpaste.gbr
>solder side paste mask
>
> board.backsilk.gbr
>solder side silk (stencil or ink)
>
> board.fab.gbr
>fabrication drawing (human readable, includes outline and drill
> makers)
>
> board.plated-drill.cnc
>drills for plated-through holes
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: Help ordering pcb

[Robert Butts]

What is the stencil layer?  A pcb fab company wants me to identify the top
stencil, bottm stencil and outline layer.  Which gerber files are these?

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 3:40 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> >What are the .fab.gbr, front.gbr and frontpaste.gbr files?
>
> fab is a fabrication drawing outlining the numbers of holes and sizes and
> general info.  You should send it.
>
> gbr. is the artwork for each layer.  You should have:
>
> top_copper.gbr
> bottom_copper.gbr
> top_silk.gbr
> plated-holes.cnc
>
> for a simple two-sided board with no mask, silkscreen and plated holes.
> The fab file will help them solve answer any questions.
>
> Another option is to name everything with your name, date and version
> number so they'll keep all your stuff together.  Either system will work
> if they have a way to designate your layers.
>
> Getting boards back with the top and bottom mixed up appears to be a
> common board-order pitfall.
>
> There'll be gerbers for the solder mask if you have it, and a stencil too
> if you need one of those for squeegying solder paste onto the board.
>
> Should I include the .net
> > and .pcb files?
>
> No.  Those are yours.  The board house probably won't know what they are
> anyway.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
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gEDA-user: Help ordering pcb

[Robert Butts]

I'm ordering a pcb from APCircuits.  They want me to use their dropdown list
to define each file from the export gerber that PCB spat out.  What are the
.fab.gbr, front.gbr and frontpaste.gbr files?  Should I include the .net
and .pcb files?

Thanks


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Re: gEDA-user: Can I undo an auto route all rats?

[Robert Butts]

Yes, I just figured out how to do it.  Thanks

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 12:33 PM, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> > I want to backup and reroute a board and I'd like to start with just
> > rats again, is this possible?  The layout has already been saved.
>
> Have you tried the "rip up all autorouted tracks" option?
>
>
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gEDA-user: Can I undo an auto route all rats?

[Robert Butts]

I want to backup and reroute a board and I'd like to start with just rats
again, is this possible?  The layout has already been saved.


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gEDA-user: two more pcb questions

[Robert Butts]

1.  How do you put pcb mounting holes in the board, say for 10-32 screws?

2.  Can someone recommend fab houses to make pcbs?


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gEDA-user: moving a trace in pcb

[Robert Butts]

I have a trace after doing an auto route that I'd like to move, is this
possible?  Can I push the trace to another layer, insert a via, and suggest
or force a signal path?  I have three electrodes (410 mil circles from 4 fat
arcs) and the signal trace from one electrode crosses over a portion of
another electrode.

Also, I created electrodes from 4 fat arcs on a signal layer.  I then put
the pin from an electrode symbol (just a pin) on the arc circle.  If I find
the net in the pcb netlist window it highlights the pad of the resistor the
electrode is connected to, the signal trace and the circular electrode.
Does this verify the electrode is connected to the pin and net?


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Re: gEDA-user: I can't move a refdes in PCB

[Robert Butts]

Thanks

That was it.  I could swear I had selected it before and was able to move it
though.  I can move it now.

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 3:46 PM, Tamas Szabo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Further, if a refdes is selected, you cannot move... I don't know why.
>
> /sza2
>
> Robert Butts wrote:
> > Still not able to get it.  I'm able to select just to text so I know its
> > getting it I just can't move the refdes.  When I click to drag the
> > refdes the mouse turns into a finger.
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 3:18 PM, John Luciani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Robert Butts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >
> > I'm rying to move the refdes values in the layout.  I don't have
> > a setting->Lockname setting.  I'm using version 20070208 in.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> >
> > Try using a finer grid.
> >
> > (* jcl *)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.luciani.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
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Re: gEDA-user: I can't move a refdes in PCB

[Robert Butts]

Still not able to get it.  I'm able to select just to text so I know its
getting it I just can't move the refdes.  When I click to drag the refdes
the mouse turns into a finger.

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 3:18 PM, John Luciani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Robert Butts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I'm rying to move the refdes values in the layout.  I don't have a
>> setting->Lockname setting.  I'm using version 20070208 in.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>
> Try using a finer grid.
>
> (* jcl *)
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.luciani.org
>
>
>
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gEDA-user: I can't move a refdes in PCB

[Robert Butts]

I'm rying to move the refdes values in the layout.  I don't have a
setting->Lockname setting.  I'm using version 20070208 in.

Any ideas?


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Re: gEDA-user: Can't vertically mirror in PCB

[Robert Butts]

Touché...

I was just watching the Red Sox/Yankees game and realized I can't just flip
the part over; it's not like it has pads on the top of the chip too!
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Dave N6NZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I must be missing something can you order mirrored parts from
> DigiKey by typing the part number in backwards, or is there more to it
> than that?
>
> -dave
>
> Robert Butts wrote:
> > Because traces coming from a connector are criss-crossing.  Mirroring the
> IC
> > will fix this.  I have to keep all the components on the same side.
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 5:55 PM, Eric Brombaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Robert Butts wrote:
> >>> I'm trying to vertically mirror a chip in PCB.  I select the IC, cut it
> >>> to the buffer, mirror buffer and click on the board again and the IC
> >>> doesn't change.  What am I doing wrong?
> >> Why do you want to mirror an IC?
> >>
> >> If you're trying to place it on the back side of the board, use the tab
> >> and/or 'b' options.
> >>
> >> Eric
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >>
> >
> >
> > 
>  >
> >
> >
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>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: Can't vertically mirror in PCB

[Robert Butts]

Because traces coming from a connector are criss-crossing.  Mirroring the IC
will fix this.  I have to keep all the components on the same side.

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 5:55 PM, Eric Brombaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Robert Butts wrote:
> > I'm trying to vertically mirror a chip in PCB.  I select the IC, cut it
> > to the buffer, mirror buffer and click on the board again and the IC
> > doesn't change.  What am I doing wrong?
>
> Why do you want to mirror an IC?
>
> If you're trying to place it on the back side of the board, use the tab
> and/or 'b' options.
>
> Eric
>
>
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gEDA-user: Can't vertically mirror in PCB

[Robert Butts]

I'm trying to vertically mirror a chip in PCB.  I select the IC, cut it to
the buffer, mirror buffer and click on the board again and the IC doesn't
change.  What am I doing wrong?


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gEDA-user: Pin statement

[Robert Butts]

The spec for a for a reverse mounted 1206 SMD LED calls for a 2.1 mm hole
centered between the pads.

Will the Pin statement in the footprint definition below give me a 2.1 mm
square hole with no copper annulus?  Do I need a clearance and mask?

#Reverse Mounted LED SMD 1206
Element[0x "Reverse Mounted LED1206" "" "" 0 0 -11827 -10953 0 100
0x]
(
Pad[-7874 0 -6890 0 5906 2000 7906 "1" "1" 0x0100]
Pad[6890 0 7874 0 5906 2000 7906 "2" "2" 0x0100]
Pin[0 0 0 2000 9268 8268 "LED HOLE" "" "square"]
ElementLine [11827 3953 -11827 3953 1000]
ElementLine [-11827 3953 -11827 -3953 1000]
ElementLine [-11827 -3953 11827 -3953 1000]
ElementLine [11827 -3953 11827 3953 1000]
ElementLine [-2937 -3953 -2937 3953 1000]
)


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gEDA-user: refdes for a 3 pin header (jumper)

[Robert Butts]

What is the usual refdes for a jumper (a 3 pin header)?


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gEDA-user: gEDA Symbols.org is down?

[Robert Butts]

Anybody know whats up with gedasymbols.org website?  I can't open it.  Same
goes for DJ's site.


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gEDA-user: PCB and footprint questions

[Robert Butts]

What is the difference between GND-sldr and GND-comp, Vcc-sldr and
Vcc-comp?  Could, or should, I just use GND and Vcc layers?

I ned to create a hole in the 1206 and 0603 footprints for reverse mounted
LEDs.  Would I pin statement in the element definition?


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Re: gEDA-user: Electrode footprint

[Robert Butts]

Yes, I guess I missed it.  I'll go back.

Thanks

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 4:40 PM, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Have you read through my new PCB Tutorial?
>
> http://www.delorie.com/pcb/docs/gs/
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: Electrode footprint

[Robert Butts]

How do I select copper?  I show the layers and their radio buttons on the
left, ten buttons, w/ via, line, arc..., under that and the four route style
radio buttons.

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 4:31 PM, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> You draw it with copper, just like you'd draw traces or polygons.
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: Electrode footprint

[Robert Butts]

How do I Make sure the arc is copper?

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:44 PM, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> > I created a .8 mil ring, 4 arcs in a circle, in PCB.  I then
> > attached a via to the ring.  Finally I copied everything to the
> > buffer and did a Buffer>Convert buffer to element.  I saved this as
> > electrode.fp.  I'd like to end up with a pin on a ring of copper and
> > the solder mask covering the ring.  How do I make sure the ring is
> > made of copper?  After I converted the buffer to an element it just
> > showed a via with a pin number and a diamond where I positioned the
> > mark in the center of the ring.
>
> Not everything in PCB can be included in an element.  Specifically,
> you may only include: vias, traces, rectangles, and silk lines/arcs.
> Copper arcs and polygons may not be included.
>
> For your case what you'll need to do is what I described earlier -
> draw the ring with copper arcs *after* you place the element (just
> pads) on the board.  The ring will not be part of the element, but it
> will work.  You'll need a center pin or via to control the mask.
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: 1st pcb layout is missing components

[Robert Butts]

Yes, I used JUMPER3.

I would say red.  I just realized I had to click in the board area and it
placed all the parts in black.  Including the jumpers.

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Peter Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, 2008-07-22 at 18:05 -0400, Robert Butts wrote:
> > Actually, I did it on the qtouch.new.pcb file and it brought in the ic
> > and rj45 but I'm still missing the 3 pin jumpers.  Also the ic and
> > rj45 are in red.
>
> What footprint did you use for the jumpers...
>
> "JUMPER3" ought to work.
>
> Red or orange?
>
> Orange may indicate it thinks things are shorted against each other.
> Move everything apart, then press "o" (optimise).
>
> --
> Peter Clifton
>
> Electrical Engineering Division,
> Engineering Department,
> University of Cambridge,
> 9, JJ Thomson Avenue,
> Cambridge
> CB3 0FA
>
> Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!)
>
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: 1st pcb layout is missing components

[Robert Butts]

Actually, I did it on the qtouch.new.pcb file and it brought in the ic and
rj45 but I'm still missing the 3 pin jumpers.  Also the ic and rj45 are in
red.

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 6:01 PM, Robert Butts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> When I do this it brings up the browser.  Do I select the .pcb file?
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 5:56 PM, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> If it's not the first time, you need to pull in the new elements
>> manually by "load layout data to paste-buffer" and pasting them.
>> gsch2pcb won't add them to the .pcb file itself.
>>
>>
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Re: gEDA-user: 1st pcb layout is missing components

[Robert Butts]

When I do this it brings up the browser.  Do I select the .pcb file?

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 5:56 PM, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> If it's not the first time, you need to pull in the new elements
> manually by "load layout data to paste-buffer" and pasting them.
> gsch2pcb won't add them to the .pcb file itself.
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: 1st pcb layout is missing components

[Robert Butts]

And the netlist shows all components.

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Robert Butts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Initially it couldn't find the footprints but once I got the case straight
> all were found.  Each connectors has a refdes of CONN1, CONN2 and CONN3 and
> the ic is U1.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 5:50 PM, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> What did gsch2pcb report when you ran it?  It normally tells you if it
>> can't find a footprint.
>>
>> Also, each element must have both a refdes and a footprint attribute
>> for gsch2pcb to try to add it.
>>
>>
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Re: gEDA-user: 1st pcb layout is missing components

[Robert Butts]

Initially it couldn't find the footprints but once I got the case straight
all were found.  Each connectors has a refdes of CONN1, CONN2 and CONN3 and
the ic is U1.

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 5:50 PM, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> What did gsch2pcb report when you ran it?  It normally tells you if it
> can't find a footprint.
>
> Also, each element must have both a refdes and a footprint attribute
> for gsch2pcb to try to add it.
>
>
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gEDA-user: 1st pcb layout is missing components

[Robert Butts]

I ran gsch2pcb on a schematic with three connectors, one ic, three leds,
nine resistors and three caps.  After running pcb on the .pcb file and
dispersing the components, I only see the resstors, caps and leds.  The ic,
of which is a ssop20 footprint, the two three pin jumpers and the rj45
connector aren't showing on the layout.  Any ideas?


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Re: gEDA-user: questions re: gafrc and directory structure following gsch2pcb tutorial

[Robert Butts]

Got it!

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 4:19 PM, John Doty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> On Jul 22, 2008, at 1:47 PM, Robert Butts wrote:
>
> > That's just it, I don't sem to have a local gafrc file.  I only
> > seem to have the system-gafrc file.
>
> If you don't need to customize any settings, you don't need a local
> gafrc. For a simple project, my local gafrc sometimes just contains:
>
> (component-library ".")
>
> so that gEDA can find project-local symbols. More complex projects
> require more complex settings.
>
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Peter Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > On Tue, 2008-07-22 at 15:40 -0400, Robert Butts wrote:
> > > I'm seting up directories and the gafrc files to follow the
> > structure
> > > in the gsch2pcb tutorial.  I don't have a gafrc file in the in my
> > > ${HOME}/gafrc so should I copy the system-gafrc and rename it gafrc?
> > > Also, this is a >= 2005 version of gEAD.
> > >
> >
> > That isn't generally a good idea.
> >
> > If you need to change a particular setting, include that in the local
> > gafrc. There is no need to copy-paste the system file, since that gets
> > read first anyway.
> >
> > --
> > Peter Clifton
> >
> > Electrical Engineering Division,
> > Engineering Department,
> > University of Cambridge,
> > 9, JJ Thomson Avenue,
> > Cambridge
> > CB3 0FA
> >
> > Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!)
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
>
> John Doty  Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
> http://www.noqsi.com/
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: questions re: gafrc and directory structure following gsch2pcb tutorial

[Robert Butts]

That's just it, I don't sem to have a local gafrc file.  I only seem to have
the system-gafrc file.

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Peter Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, 2008-07-22 at 15:40 -0400, Robert Butts wrote:
> > I'm seting up directories and the gafrc files to follow the structure
> > in the gsch2pcb tutorial.  I don't have a gafrc file in the in my
> > ${HOME}/gafrc so should I copy the system-gafrc and rename it gafrc?
> > Also, this is a >= 2005 version of gEAD.
> >
>
> That isn't generally a good idea.
>
> If you need to change a particular setting, include that in the local
> gafrc. There is no need to copy-paste the system file, since that gets
> read first anyway.
>
> --
> Peter Clifton
>
> Electrical Engineering Division,
> Engineering Department,
> University of Cambridge,
> 9, JJ Thomson Avenue,
> Cambridge
> CB3 0FA
>
> Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!)
>
>
>
> ___
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gEDA-user: questions re: gafrc and directory structure following gsch2pcb tutorial

[Robert Butts]

I'm seting up directories and the gafrc files to follow the structure in the
gsch2pcb tutorial.  I don't have a gafrc file in the in my ${HOME}/gafrc so
should I copy the system-gafrc and rename it gafrc?  Also, this is a >= 2005
version of gEAD.


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Re: gEDA-user: Suggestions for using a capacitive sensor IC

[Robert Butts]

For the following questions refer to figure 1.1 of the attached doc.

I'd like to use a ring electrode with a back-firing smt led centered in the
ring.  Drawing the schematic for the qtouch sensor, should I omit the
electrodes leaving the resistors hanging and add the smt pad in PCB?
Otherwise, I'm wondering how to represent the electrode symbol for the
schematic.  Would it have a pin to connect a trace to?  I guess the
footprint would have a smt pad with the diameter I want and then an inner
diameter big enough to accommodate the led.  Then place the back-firing
footprint inside the ring electrode.  My hurdle now is representing the
electrode in the schematic.

On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 1:34 AM, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> For plain circles, smt pads are easier and better.
>
> If you wanted to do a resistive touch sensor with a circle with a ring
> around it, you'd do the circle as a pad and a smaller circle (radius
> == ring width) beside it.  Then, when you lay out the board, add an
> arc centered on the big pad, intersecting the small pad.  Adjust the
> angles with a text editor to come close to but not touch any traces
> leading away from the center pad (or connect the center pad with a
> via, and make the arc full circle.  Make the solder mask for the
> center pad big enough to expose the ring too.
>
>
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gEDA-user: Electrode footprint

[Robert Butts]

I created a .8 mil ring, 4 arcs in a circle, in PCB.  I then attached a via
to the ring.  Finally I copied everything to the buffer and did a
Buffer>Convert buffer to element.  I saved this as electrode.fp.  I'd like
to end up with a pin on a ring of copper and the solder mask covering the
ring.  How do I make sure the ring is made of copper?  After I converted the
buffer to an element it just showed a via with a pin number and a diamond
where I positioned the mark in the center of the ring.


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gEDA-user: Verifying footprints

[Robert Butts]

I realize this should be simple but I'm following the gEDA how to create
footprints document and trying to understand how the numbers derived for
specific footprints.  For example:  the pad definitions in the 0805.fp is as
follows:

Pad[-3543 -393
-3543 393
5118 2000 5718 "1" "1" "square"]
Pad[3543 -393
3543 393
5118 2000 5718 "2" "2" "square"]

Excuse the crude sketch.
According to the gEDA how to create footprints document the dimensions for
the 0805 are (these values are taken from the IPC-SM-782A Standard):

  C  X  Y   ZG Grid
74.8   59.1  51.2  126.0  23.6  157.5 x 315.0

So from the document the pad sizes as follows:

 |< C >|
---
||
| ---  --- | --
| | | | | |
| |  |  | |  |  | |
| |  |  | |  |  | |   X
| |  |  | |  |  | |
| |___|  |___| | ___
| |<- Y -->|<-- G -->|   |
|_|
|< Z -->|

Calculated dimensions:
C = 3543 * 2 = 7086 = 70.86 mils
X = 5118 = 51.18 mils
Y = 393 * 2 + thickness = 5904 = 59.04 mils
G = C - thicknes = 7086 - 5118 = 1968 = 19.68 mils
Z = C + thickness + clearance = 7086 + 5118 + 2000 = 14204 = 142.04 mils

If I calculated these values correctly, why are they off from the values in
the IPC-SM-782A standard?
If I didn't calculate them correctly, where did I go wrong?
Is this a standard clearance?


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gEDA-user: What to do w/ unused pins when creating a symbol

[Robert Butts]

I'm creating a symbol for a chip that has pins not used, labeled n.c. and
not internally connected.  Should I just omit these pins from the symbol?


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gEDA-user: Suggestions for using a capacitive sensor IC

[Robert Butts]

I started to create a schematic for a capacitive sensing circuit to be used
in an interface for a project I'm working on. I'm using Quantum's QTouch
QT240 IC. I have yet to use PCB and I'd like to get suggestions on how to
represent the electrodes and their footprints in the schematic.

I'm using the following application note:

http://www.qprox.com/Assets/Downloadablefile/an-kd02_103-touch_secrets-16362.pdf

I'm going to use a back-firing configuration with LEDs similar to figure 10.
Where I have yet to use PCB how do I create these electrodes? I appreciate
all suggestions and advice.

Thanks,

Rob


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Re: gEDA-user: Footprint creation manual

[Robert Butts]

I can't get Stuart's links to open.  This led me to post this.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 3:01 PM, Stefan Salewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Robert Butts wrote:
> >It's been a while since I've been on gEDA.  I can't find any
> >documentation on creating footprints for PCB.
>
> >Little help?
>
> >Rob
>
> See
>
> http://www.brorson.com/gEDA/
> http://www.brorson.com/gEDA/land_patterns_20070818.pdf
>
> Its a technical documentation for creating footprints with a texteditor
> or with scripts like footgen.py.
>
> There are still some minor typos included -- I do not have installed
> OpenOffice to fix it, and Stuart is too busy currently.
>
>
>
>
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gEDA-user: Footprint creation manual

[Robert Butts]

It's been a while since I've been on gEDA.  I can't find any documentation
on creating footprints for PCB.

Little help?

Rob


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Re: gEDA-user: Using SMT

[Robert Butts]

Thanks everyone.

The Project:
I'm a quadriplegic and during the summer I have difficulty regulating my
temperature and am usually restricted to indoors and air condition when the
outdoor temperature exceeds 80 degrees.  I've been working on a design to
mount a thermoelectric cold plate in the backrest of my wheelchair.  This
cold plate will have the capability of cooling or heating via a PWM
controlling an h-bridge.  I'm using a microchip dsPIC DSC to monitor
thermocouples in the backrest, interface to the user and control the power
to the cold-plate.  I'm about 80% done with the code and trying to get my
spare chair prototyped while the summer is still here (central
Massachusetts).

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:29 PM, John Luciani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>
>   On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Robert Butts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm about to start bread boarding a desin.  I have a few surface mount chips
>> that I got SMT-to-DIP adapters for.  I also purchased SMT paste.  I have
>> never worked with surface mount devices.  How do you paste the chip to
>> its footprint?  How do you get the excess, if any, paste out?  I have a
>> feeling it's got something to do with heating it.
>> Thanks,
>> Rob
>>
>
> I use wire solder, water soluble flux and a fine tip soldering iron. A list
> of the tools
> and supplies I use are at*  http://tinyurl.com/6b2vy9
>
> (* jcl *)
> *
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.luciani.org
>
>
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gEDA-user: Using SMT

[Robert Butts]

I'm about to start bread boarding a desin.  I have a few surface mount chips
that I got SMT-to-DIP adapters for.  I also purchased SMT paste.  I have
never worked with surface mount devices.  How do you paste the chip to its
footprint?  How do you get the excess, if any, paste out?  I have a feeling
it's got something to do with heating it.
Thanks,
Rob


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Re: gEDA-user: gnucap insists a bjt is not a bjt

[Robert Butts]

I found my problem.  I guess you can't name a netname that goes into a
transistor base?  I took all netnames out and the simulation ran.  I haven't
added them back in oneby one to find the exact cause.

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Robert Butts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I made a simple differential amplifier with bjts.  When I try to simulate
> it gnucap keeps insisting the bjt is not a bjt.  I have tried different bjts
> and different spice models.
>
>
> Below is the output from gnetlist and attatched is the netlist with the
> simulation commands:
>
>
>
> --
>
> Internal netlist representation:
>
> component V1
> pin 1 (+) Vin-plus
> V1 1 [1317]
> Q1 2 [2268]
> pin 2 (-) Vin-minus
> V1 2 [1343]
> V2 1 [3763]
> Q2 2 [2773]
>
> component R3
> pin 2 (2) 1
> R3 2 [1900]
> Q1 3 [2088]
> Q2 3 [2610]
> pin 1 (1) -Vcc
> R3 1 [1909]
>
> component Q1
> pin 1 (C) Vout-plus
> Q1 1 [2073]
> R1 1 [4097]
> pin 3 (E) 1
> Q1 3 [2088]
> Q2 3 [2610]
> R3 2 [1900]
> pin 2 (B) Vin-plus
> Q1 2 [2268]
> V1 1 [1317]
>
> component Q2
> pin 1 (C) Vout-minus
> Q2 1 [2595]
> R2 1 [3940]
> pin 3 (E) 1
> Q2 3 [2610]
> Q1 3 [2088]
> R3 2 [1900]
> pin 2 (B) Vin-minus
> Q2 2 [2773]
> V1 2 [1343]
> V2 1 [3763]
>
> component SPECIAL
> pin 1 (OUTPUT) Null net name
> Q2 1 [2595]
> R2 1 [3940]
>
> component SPECIAL
> pin 1 (1) Null net name
> V2 2 [3754]
>
> component V2
> pin 2 (2) GND
> V2 2 [3754]
> pin 1 (1) Vin-minus
> V2 1 [3763]
> V1 2 [1343]
> Q2 2 [2773]
>
> component R2
> pin 2 (2) Vcc
> R2 2 [3931]
> R1 2 [4088]
> pin 1 (1) Vout-minus
> R2 1 [3940]
> Q2 1 [2595]
>
> component R1
> pin 2 (2) Vcc
> R1 2 [4088]
> R2 2 [3931]
> pin 1 (1) Vout-plus
> R1 1 [4097]
> Q1 1 [2073]
>
> component SPECIAL
> pin 1 (1) Null net name
> R1 2 [4088]
> R2 2 [3931]
>
> component SPECIAL
> pin 1 (1) Null net name
> R3 1 [1909]
>
> component SPECIAL
> pin 1 (OUTPUT) Null net name
> Q1 1 [2073]
> R1 1 [4097]
>
>
> Using SPICE backend by SDB -- Version of 4.28.2007
> schematic-type = normal schematic
> found normal type schematic
> Make first pass through design and create list of all model files
> referenced.
> found file attribute for Q2.  File name =
> /home/rob/gaf/spice-files/2N3904.model
> In get-file-type, first-char = .
> File is new.  New file type is .MODEL
> Inserting /home/rob/gaf/spice-files/2N3904.model into list of known model
> files.
> found file attribute for Q1.  File name =
> /home/rob/gaf/spice-files/2N3904.model
> File has already been seen and entered into known model file list.
> Done creating file-info-list.
>
> Now process the items in model file list -- stick appropriate references
> to models in output SPICE file.
> Handling spice model file /home/rob/gaf/spice-files/2N3904.model
> Done processing items in model file list.
> Make second pass through design and write out a SPICE card for each
> component found.
> --- checking package = V2
> device = VOLTAGE_SOURCE
> Found independent voltage source.  Refdes = V2
>   In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
>  pin-name = 1
>  pinnumber = 1
>  pinseq = 1
>  netname = Vin-minus
>   In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
>  pin-name = 2
>  pinnumber = 2
>  pinseq = 2
>  netname = 0
> --- checking package = Q2
> device = 2N3904
>   In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
>  pin-name = 1
>  pinnumber = 1
>  pinseq = 1
>  netname = Vout-minus
>   In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
>  pin-name = 2
>  pinnumber = 2
>  pinseq = 2
>  netname = Vin-minus
>   In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
>

gEDA-user: gnucap insists a bjt is not a bjt

[Robert Butts]

I made a simple differential amplifier with bjts.  When I try to simulate it
gnucap keeps insisting the bjt is not a bjt.  I have tried different bjts
and different spice models.


Below is the output from gnetlist and attatched is the netlist with the
simulation commands:


--

Internal netlist representation:

component V1
pin 1 (+) Vin-plus
V1 1 [1317]
Q1 2 [2268]
pin 2 (-) Vin-minus
V1 2 [1343]
V2 1 [3763]
Q2 2 [2773]

component R3
pin 2 (2) 1
R3 2 [1900]
Q1 3 [2088]
Q2 3 [2610]
pin 1 (1) -Vcc
R3 1 [1909]

component Q1
pin 1 (C) Vout-plus
Q1 1 [2073]
R1 1 [4097]
pin 3 (E) 1
Q1 3 [2088]
Q2 3 [2610]
R3 2 [1900]
pin 2 (B) Vin-plus
Q1 2 [2268]
V1 1 [1317]

component Q2
pin 1 (C) Vout-minus
Q2 1 [2595]
R2 1 [3940]
pin 3 (E) 1
Q2 3 [2610]
Q1 3 [2088]
R3 2 [1900]
pin 2 (B) Vin-minus
Q2 2 [2773]
V1 2 [1343]
V2 1 [3763]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (OUTPUT) Null net name
Q2 1 [2595]
R2 1 [3940]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (1) Null net name
V2 2 [3754]

component V2
pin 2 (2) GND
V2 2 [3754]
pin 1 (1) Vin-minus
V2 1 [3763]
V1 2 [1343]
Q2 2 [2773]

component R2
pin 2 (2) Vcc
R2 2 [3931]
R1 2 [4088]
pin 1 (1) Vout-minus
R2 1 [3940]
Q2 1 [2595]

component R1
pin 2 (2) Vcc
R1 2 [4088]
R2 2 [3931]
pin 1 (1) Vout-plus
R1 1 [4097]
Q1 1 [2073]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (1) Null net name
R1 2 [4088]
R2 2 [3931]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (1) Null net name
R3 1 [1909]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (OUTPUT) Null net name
Q1 1 [2073]
R1 1 [4097]


Using SPICE backend by SDB -- Version of 4.28.2007
schematic-type = normal schematic
found normal type schematic
Make first pass through design and create list of all model files
referenced.
found file attribute for Q2.  File name =
/home/rob/gaf/spice-files/2N3904.model
In get-file-type, first-char = .
File is new.  New file type is .MODEL
Inserting /home/rob/gaf/spice-files/2N3904.model into list of known model
files.
found file attribute for Q1.  File name =
/home/rob/gaf/spice-files/2N3904.model
File has already been seen and entered into known model file list.
Done creating file-info-list.

Now process the items in model file list -- stick appropriate references to
models in output SPICE file.
Handling spice model file /home/rob/gaf/spice-files/2N3904.model
Done processing items in model file list.
Make second pass through design and write out a SPICE card for each
component found.
--- checking package = V2
device = VOLTAGE_SOURCE
Found independent voltage source.  Refdes = V2
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 1
 pinnumber = 1
 pinseq = 1
 netname = Vin-minus
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 2
 pinnumber = 2
 pinseq = 2
 netname = 0
--- checking package = Q2
device = 2N3904
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 1
 pinnumber = 1
 pinseq = 1
 netname = Vout-minus
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 2
 pinnumber = 2
 pinseq = 2
 netname = Vin-minus
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 3
 pinnumber = 3
 pinseq = 3
 netname = 1
found file and model-name for Q2
I'll deal with the file later . . .
--- checking package = V1
device = vac
Found independent voltage source.  Refdes = V1
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 1
 pinnumber = 1
 pinseq = 1
 netname = Vin-plus
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 2
 pinnumber = 2
 pinseq = 2
 netname = Vin-minus
--- checking package = Q1
device = 2N3904
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 1
 pinnumber = 1
 pinseq = 1
 netname = Vout-plus
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 2
 pinnumber = 2
 pinseq = 2
 netname = Vin-plus
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 3
 pinnumber = 3
 pinseq = 3
 netname = 1
found file and model-name for Q1
I'll deal with the file later . . .
--- checking package = R3
device = RESISTOR
Found resistor.  Refdes = R3
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .

gEDA-user: gnucap is not recognizing known netnames

[Robert Butts]

I simulated this simple circuit yesterday with no problems.  To day I made
some minor changes and tried to simulate and I'm getting errors where gnucap
can't recognize netnames that are there.  I changed everything back to
yesterdays setup, except for the fedora update I did after booting up, and
I'm still getting these errors.  I changed the netname to node 2 and it is
faulting still.

I can't see what I'm doing wrong.  I'm listing the output from the netlister
followed by the gnucap attempt and the netlist with the simulation commands:


--
--- checking package = X1
device = IC
Found subcircuit.  Refdes = X1
Found .SUBCKT with model-file and model-name for X1
Checking prefix.  Package prefix =X
  correct prefix =X
   nomunge mode = #f
  different-prefix=#f
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 1
 pinnumber = 3
 pinseq = 1
 netname = topLeg
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 2
 pinnumber = 2
 pinseq = 2
 netname = computerMic
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 3
 pinnumber = 7
 pinseq = 3
 netname = Vcc
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 4
 pinnumber = 4
 pinseq = 4
 netname = -Vcc
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 5
 pinnumber = 6
 pinseq = 5
 netname = computerMic
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 6
 pinnumber = 1
 pinseq = 6
 netname = 2
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 7
 pinnumber = 5
 pinseq = 7
 netname = 3
We'll handle the file contents later . . .
--- checking package = C3
device = POLARIZED_CAPACITOR
Found capacitor.  Refdes = C3
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 1
 pinnumber = 1
 pinseq = 1
 netname = +5V
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 2
 pinnumber = 2
 pinseq = 2
 netname = 0
--- checking package = C2
device = POLARIZED_CAPACITOR
Found capacitor.  Refdes = C2
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 1
 pinnumber = 1
 pinseq = 1
 netname = -Vcc
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 2
 pinnumber = 2
 pinseq = 2
 netname = 0
--- checking package = C1
device = POLARIZED_CAPACITOR
Found capacitor.  Refdes = C1
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 1
 pinnumber = 1
 pinseq = 1
 netname = Vcc
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 2
 pinnumber = 2
 pinseq = 2
 netname = 0
--- checking package = R8
device = RESISTOR
Found resistor.  Refdes = R8
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 1
 pinnumber = 1
 pinseq = 1
 netname = ecuMic
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 2
 pinnumber = 2
 pinseq = 2
 netname = 0
--- checking package = R7
device = RESISTOR
Found resistor.  Refdes = R7
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 1
 pinnumber = 1
 pinseq = 1
 netname = 6
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 2
 pinnumber = 2
 pinseq = 2
 netname = 5
--- checking package = R6
device = RESISTOR
Found resistor.  Refdes = R6
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 1
 pinnumber = 1
 pinseq = 1
 netname = 4
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 2
 pinnumber = 2
 pinseq = 2
 netname = ecuMic
--- checking package = V3
device = vac
Found independent voltage source.  Refdes = V3
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 1
 pinnumber = 1
 pinseq = 1
 netname = V3
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 2
 pinnumber = 2
 pinseq = 2
 netname = 0
Done writing SPICE cards . . .


Output file is written.  We are done.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] project-micSwitch]$ gnucap -b micnetlist.cktGnucap 0.35
The Gnu Circuit Analysis Package
Never trust any version less than 1.0
Copyright 1982-2006, Albert Davis
Gnucap comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
This is free software, and you are welcome
to redistribute it under certain conditions
according to the GNU General Public License.
See the file "COPYING" for details.
* gnetlist -v -g spice-sdb -o micnetlist.ckt micSwitch4Sim.sch
#
 27.
print ac v(ecuMic)
   ^ ? no match
[EMAIL PROTECTED] project-micSwitch]$ gnucap -b micnetlist.ckt
Gnucap 0.35
The Gnu Circuit Analysis Package
Never trust any version less than 1.0
Copyright 1982-2006, Albert Davis
Gnucap comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
This is free software, and you are welcome
to redistribute it under certain conditions
according to the GNU General Public License.
See the file "COPYING" for details.
* gnetlist -v -g spice-sdb -o micnetlist.ckt micSwitch4Sim.sch
#
 27.
print ac v(2)
   ^ ? no match
[EMAIL PROTECTED] project-micSwitch]$
-

gEDA-user: gnucap segmentation fault

[Robert Butts]

I am simulating a circuit that has an LM741 and I'm getting a segmentation
fault.  I suspect the problem may be because the symbol I'm using for the
LM741 has two pin error.  The symbol's pin attributes areIt so happens that
these two pins are the two offset null pins.  I don't see these pins in the
symbol.  See an excerpt of the netlist below and the gnetlist cammand output
below that:


--
--- checking package = X1
device = IC
Found subcircuit.  Refdes = X1
Model info not found in model file list.  No model attribute either.  Just
write what we know.
Invalid wanted_pin passed to get-nets [unknown]
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 1
 pinnumber = unknown
 pinseq = unknown
 netname = ERROR_INVALID_PIN
For X1, found pin with no pinseq attribute.  Ignoring. . . .
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 2
 pinnumber = 2
 pinseq = 2
 netname = bottomLeg
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 3
 pinnumber = 3
 pinseq = 3
 netname = topLeg
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 4
 pinnumber = 4
 pinseq = 4
 netname = -Vcc
Invalid wanted_pin passed to get-nets [unknown]
  In write-net-names-on-component. . . .
 pin-name = 5
 pinnumber = unknown
 pinseq = unknown
 netname = ERROR_INVALID_PIN
For X1, found pin with no pinseq attribute.  Ignoring. . . .
--- checking package = C2

 
--

Microphone switch
* gnetlist -v -g spice-sdb -o micnetlist.ckt micSwitch4Sim.sch
*
* Spice file generated by gnetlist  *
* spice-sdb version 4.28.2007 by SDB -- *
* provides advanced spice netlisting capability.*
* Documentation at http://www.brorson.com/gEDA/SPICE/   *
*
*  Included SPICE model from /home/rob/gaf/spice-files/LM741.subckt

*//
* (C) National Semiconductor, Inc.
* Models developed and under copyright by:
* National Semiconductor, Inc.

*/
* Legal Notice: This material is intended for free software support.
* The file may be copied, and distributed; however, reselling the
*  material is illegal

*
* For ordering or technical information on these models, contact:
* National Semiconductor's Customer Response Center
* 7:00 A.M.--7:00 P.M.  U.S. Central Time
*(800) 272-9959
* For Applications support, contact the Internet address:
*  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

*//
*LM741 OPERATIONAL AMPLIFIER MACRO-MODEL
*//
*
* connections:  non-inverting input
*   |   inverting input
*   |   |   positive power supply
*   |   |   |   negative power supply
*   |   |   |   |   output
*   |   |   |   |   |
*   |   |   |   |   |
.SUBCKT LM7411   2  99  50  28
*
*Features:
*Improved performance over industry standards
*Plug-in replacement for LM709,LM201,MC1439,748
*Input and output overload protection
*
INPUT STAGE**
*
IOS 2 1 20N
*^Input offset current
R1 1 3 250K
R2 3 2 250K
I1 4 50 100U
R3 5 99 517
R4 6 99 517
Q1 5 2 4 QX
Q2 6 7 4 QX
*Fp2=2.55 MHz
C4 5 6 60.3614P
*
***COMMON MODE EFFECT***
*
I2 99 50 1.6MA
*^Quiescent supply current
EOS 7 1 POLY(1) 16 49 1E-3 1
*Input offset voltage.^
R8 99 49 40K
R9 49 50 40K
*
*OUTPUT VOLTAGE LIMITING
V2 99 8 1.63
D1 9 8 DX
D2 10 9 DX
V3 10 50 1.63
*
**SECOND STAGE**
*
EH 99 98 99 49 1
G1 98 9 5 6 2.1E-3
*Fp1=5 Hz
R5 98 9 95.493MEG
C3 98 9 333.33P
*
***POLE STAGE***
*
*Fp=30 MHz
G3 98 15 9 49 1E-6
R12 98 15 1MEG
C5 98 15 5.3052E-15
*
*COMMON-MODE ZERO STAGE*
*
*Fpcm=300 Hz
G4 98 16 3 49 3.1623E-8
L2 98 17 530.5M
R13 17 16 1K
*
**OUTPUT STAGE**
*
F6 50 99 POLY(1) V6 450U 1
E1 99 23 99 15 1
R16 24 23 25
D5 26 24 DX
V6 26 22 0.65V
R17 23 25 25
D6 25 27 DX
V7 22 27 0.65V
V5 22 21 0.18V
D4 21 15 DX
V4 20 22 0.18V
D3 15 20 DX
L3 22 28 100P
RL3 22 28 100K
*
***MODELS USED**
*
.MODEL DX D(IS=1E-15)
.MODEL QX NPN(BF=625)
*
.ENDS
*$

*  End of included SPICE model from
/home/rob/gaf/spice-files/LM741.subckt 
*
*==  Begin SPICE netlist of main design 
V2 bottomLeg 0 dc 5
R5 0 bottomLeg 1k
R4 V2 1 10k
V1 topLeg bottomLeg ac 1
R3 bot

Re: gEDA-user: Parts DB API

[Robert Butts]

My only request is to design it with the disabled in mind.  If its
graphical, include shortcut keys.  Using the accessiblity mouse keys and
waiting for the mouse to travel from point to point multiplied by repetitive
tasks effects the time to completion significantly.

On Dec 20, 2007 4:00 PM, John Doty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> On Dec 20, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
>
> > On Dec 19, 2007, at 5:47 PM, John Doty wrote:
> >>>As do I.  I've always thought that gattrib's functionality being
> >>> implemented as a separate program is a bit odd.  I think there
> >>> should
> >>> be a menu choice like "Edit all component attributes..." which would
> >>> bring up what we now see as gattrib's main window.
> >>
> >> To me, it's the other way around. The schematic editor is a graphic
> >> tool, and should concentrate on graphics ("A program should do one
> >> thing well"). Attributes are text, and should be entered and edited
> >> by a text-oriented tool. For attributes visible in the schematic, the
> >> schematic editor should be able to read the attributes, but it need
> >> not be able to write them.
> >
> >I understand and agree with your point, but I think it should be
> > looked at in a different way.  Rather than thinking of it as a
> > graphical tool, the schematic editor is a "circuit design tool" (that
> > happens to use graphics).  One can attach attributes to components in
> > the design by individually selecting each component
>
> That's fine for starting a project.
>
> > and editing their
> > attributes, but a spreadsheet-format tool like gattrib simply provides
> > a shortcut for that functionality for more advanced users.
>
> gattrib is very difficult. For one thing, it's a graphical tool
> itself, where a text tool is needed. For another, it's per page
> rather than per project. For another, it's per instance rather than
> per part or even per refdes (try changing the footprint for a 100
> slot device in gattrib). A text editor is a much more reasonable tool
> for, well, editing text, which is what attributes are. Right now, you
> can kind of do that by editing the sch files directly, but the fog of
> graphics data gets in the way, you're still working per instance, and
> I'm sure it's daunting to newbies.
>
> But (optionally) moving attributes to a separate text file, indexed
> by part rather than instance or refdes, could make this much easier.
>
> >
> >We're talking about the same thing of course; I'm just proposing a
> > different way of looking at it.
> >
> >   -Dave
> >
> > --
> > Dave McGuire
> > Port Charlotte, FL
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > geda-user mailing list
> > geda-user@moria.seul.org
> > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
>
> John Doty  Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
> http://www.noqsi.com/
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
> ___
>  geda-user mailing list
> geda-user@moria.seul.org
> http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
>


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gEDA-user: Problem with 2N3906 model in gnucap

[Robert Butts]

I downloaded the model from fairchild's website.  I'm simulating this very
simple circuit in gnucap and am getting the following error:

---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] project-micSwitch]$ gnucap tempCir.ckt
Gnucap 0.35
The Gnu Circuit Analysis Package
Never trust any version less than 1.0
Copyright 1982-2006, Albert Davis
Gnucap comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
This is free software, and you are welcome
to redistribute it under certain conditions
according to the GNU General Public License.
See the file "COPYING" for details.
DUAL AMP CIRCUIT
... fNe=1.536 Ikf=.3287 Nk=.9957 Xtb=1.5 Var
^ ? what's this?
print ac v(2) v(computerMic)
^ ? no match
gnucap>
---


Here is the netlist:

---
DUAL AMP CIRCUIT
* gnetlist -v -g spice-sdb -o tempCir.ckt tempCir.sch
*
* Spice file generated by gnetlist  *
* spice-sdb version 4.28.2007 by SDB -- *
* provides advanced spice netlisting capability.*
* Documentation at http://www.brorson.com/gEDA/SPICE/   *
*
*  Included SPICE model from 2N3904.model 
.model 2N3904 NPN(Is=6.734f Xti=3 Eg=1.11 Vaf=74.03 Bf=416.4 Ne=1.259
+   Ise=6.734f Ikf=66.78m Xtb=1.5 Br=.7371 Nc=2 Isc=0 Ikr=0 Rc=1
+   Cjc=3.638p Mjc=.3085 Vjc=.75 Fc=.5 Cje=4.493p Mje=.2593
Vje=.75
+   Tr=239.5n Tf=301.2p Itf=.4 Vtf=4 Xtf=2 Rb=10)
*   Fairchildpid=23  case=TO92
*   88-09-08 bamcreation

*  End of included SPICE model from 2N3904.model 
*
*  Included SPICE model from 2N3906.model 
* 2n3906 model created using Parts version 6.0 on 11/19/01 at 16:43
* Parts is a MicroSim product.
*
.model 2N3906  PNP(Is=455.9E-18 Xti=3 Eg=1.11 Vaf=33.6 Bf=204.7 Ise=7.558f
+   Ne=1.536 Ikf=.3287 Nk=.9957 Xtb=1.5 Var=100 Br=3.72
+   Isc=529.3E-18 Nc=15.51 Ikr=11.1 Rc=.8508 Cjc=10.13pMjc=.6993
+   Vjc=1.006 Fc=.5 Cje=10.39p Mje=.6931 Vje=.9937 Tr=10n Tf=
181.2p
+   Itf=4.881m Xtf=.7939 Vtf=10 Rb=10)
*
*   Fairchild  pid=66   case=TO92
*   11/19/2001 calccb update
*$
*  End of included SPICE model from 2N3906.model 
*
*==  Begin SPICE netlist of main design 
Q3 9 9 Vcc 2N3906
R5 -Vcc 6 1Meg
V2 V2 0 SIN(5 1 5000 1NS 1E10)
Q2 8 1 4 2N3904
V1 V1 0 sin(5 1 1000 0 0)
R4 0 2 10k
Q1 8 9 Vcc 2N3906
R3 -Vcc 4 1Meg
R2 V2 3 10k
R1 V1 1 10k
Q8 10 7 6 2N3904
C2 Vcc 0 .1u
Q7 10 10 Vcc 2N3906
C1 0 -Vcc .1u
Q6 11 3 6 2N3904
R8 0 5 10k
Q5 11 10 Vcc 2N3906
R7 0 7 10k
Q4 9 2 4 2N3904
R6 5 7 10k

.print ac v(2) v(computerMic)
.ac lin 300 300 3300 >tempCir.dat
.end
---


Why is the model causing the fault?


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gEDA-user: Having trouble plotting after gnucap simulation

[Robert Butts]

I am following the gnucap tutorial and am using the opamp-vf.ckt in the
gnucap examples.  I'm using the following commands:

---
gnucap eg6.ckt
gnuplot
set data style lines
plot 'eg6.dat' using 1:2, 'eg6.dat' using 1:3, 'eg6.dat' using 1:4
exit
---


Here's the circuit I used:


---
2 stage op-amp, conected as voltage follower 02/16/88
*
m1 3 6 5 8 cmosn w=5u l=5u ad=45p as=45p pd=28u ps=28u nrd=1.8 nrs=1.8
m2 4 1 5 8 cmosn w=5u l=5u ad=45p as=45p pd=28u ps=28u nrd=1.8 nrs=1.8
m3 3 3 9 9 cmosp w=5u l=5u ad=45p as=45p pd=28u ps=28u nrd=1.8 nrs=1.8
m4 4 3 9 9 cmosp w=5u l=5u ad=45p as=45p pd=28u ps=28u nrd=1.8 nrs=1.8
m5 5 7 8 8 cmosn w=5u l=5u ad=45p as=45p pd=28u ps=28u nrd=1.8 nrs=1.8
m6 6 4 9 9 cmosp w=9u l=5u ad=45p as=45p pd=28u ps=28u nrd=1.8 nrs=1.8
m7 6 7 8 8 cmosn w=5u l=5u ad=45p as=45p pd=28u ps=28u nrd=1.8 nrs=1.8
m8 7 7 8 8 cmosn w=5u l=5u ad=45p as=45p pd=28u ps=28u nrd=1.8 nrs=1.8
cc 4 6 5.0p
ib 9 7 .36u
vdd 9 0 2.5
vss 8 0 -2.5
cl 6 0 20p
*
vin 1 0 dc pulse(-1.0 1.0 200u 1u 1u 300u 600u) ac=1
*
.model cmosn nmos (level=2 ld=0.265073u tox=418.0e-10
+ nsub=1.53142e+16 vto=0.844345 kp=4.15964e-05 gamma=0.863074
+ phi=0.6 uo=503.521 uexp=0.163917 ucrit=161166
+ delta=1e-06 vmax=55903.5 xj=0.40u lambda=0.01
+ nfs=3.5934e+12 neff=1.001 nss=1e+12 tpg=1.00
+ rsh=29.3 cgdo=2.18971e-10 cgso=2.18971e-10
+ cj=0.0003844 mj=0.488400 cjsw=5.272e-10 mjsw=0.300200 pb=0.70)
.model cmosp pmos (level=2 ld=0.299878u tox=418.0e-10
+ nsub=4.19363e+15 vto=-0.79089 kp=1.64047e-05 gamma=0.451645
+ phi=0.6 uo=198.577 uexp=0.343935 ucrit=110988
+ delta=0.956806 vmax=41456.3 xj=0.40u lambda=0.02
+ nfs=1e+12 neff=1.001 nss=1e+12 tpg=-1.00
+ rsh=107.6 cgdo=2.47722e-10 cgso=2.47722e-10
+ cj=0.0002281 mj=0.508000 cjsw=3.077e-10 mjsw=0.193500 pb=0.74)
*
.print op iter(0) v(nodes)
.op
*
.plot ac vdb(6) (-90,30) vp(6) (-180,180)
.ac dec 5 1 10meg >opamp-vf.dat
*ac steps start stop
*
.plot dc v(6) (-4,4)
.dc vin -5 5 .2
*dc start stop stepsize
*
.plot tran v(6) (-4,4)
.tran 10u 1000u 0
*tran step stop start
.end
---


And this is the command prompt io:


---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] gnucap examples]$ gnucap opamp-vf.ckt
Gnucap 0.35
The Gnu Circuit Analysis Package
Never trust any version less than 1.0
Copyright 1982-2006, Albert Davis
Gnucap comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
This is free software, and you are welcome
to redistribute it under certain conditions
according to the GNU General Public License.
See the file "COPYING" for details.
2 stage op-amp, conected as voltage follower 02/16/88
gnucap> quit

[EMAIL PROTECTED] gnucap examples]$ gnuplot

G N U P L O T
Version 4.0 patchlevel 0
last modified Thu Apr 15 14:44:22 CEST 2004
System: Linux 2.6.23.14-64.fc7

Copyright (C) 1986 - 1993, 1998, 2004
Thomas Williams, Colin Kelley and many others

This is gnuplot version 4.0.  Please refer to the documentation
for command syntax changes.  The old syntax will be accepted
throughout the 4.0 series, but all save files use the new syntax.

Type `help` to access the on-line reference manual.
The gnuplot FAQ is available from
http://www.gnuplot.info/faq/

Send comments and requests for help to
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Send bugs, suggestions and mods to
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Terminal type set to 'x11'
gnuplot> set style data lines
gnuplot> plot 'opamp-vf.dat' using 1:2
  ^
 no data point found in specified file

gnuplot>
---


Why does the output to the gnuplot say "no data point found in spicified
file"?  Should the data file have something when I open it in a text
editor?  If so, why doesn't it?

Thanks!


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Re: gEDA-user: gnucap warning

[Robert Butts]

Seriously, why the warning?

On Feb 2, 2008 2:09 PM, Steve Meier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If it a microsoft application it won't even function until at least 3.1
>
> al davis wrote:
> > On Saturday 02 February 2008, Robert Butts wrote:
> >
> >> Never trust any version less than 1.0
> >>
> >
> > If you design a new chip, and spend $10 million to get it made,
> > and it doesn't sell ...  It's not my fault.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > geda-user mailing list
> > geda-user@moria.seul.org
> > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ___
> geda-user mailing list
> geda-user@moria.seul.org
> http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
>


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gEDA-user: gnucap warning

[Robert Butts]

I installed the gnucap that was listed in the fedora 7 package manager.  The
version is 0.35 and when I start gnucap I see this warning:

Never trust any version less than 1.0

What's up with this, do I need to update it and if so is this done with: rpm
-u?


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gEDA-user: Can I configure gschem to start with last schematic worked on?

[Robert Butts]

I'd like setup gschem to start with the last schematic I was woking on when
gschem was closed.  Is this possible?  I checked the gschem faqs and found
nothing.

Thanks


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Re: gEDA-user: Simulation questions using gnucap

[Robert Butts]

Al,

In the acs-tutorial, is acs an old title for gnucap?  The reason why I'm
asking is, as you said, it is outdated.  As I was reading through it I
thought I could try to update it, of course with help and direction.  Would
it be worth the time?


On Jan 1, 2008 8:59 PM, al davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tuesday 01 January 2008, Robert Butts wrote:
> > Below is the output from gnetlist and gnucap.  Toward the
> > bottom is the gnucap output where it lists "?" faults.  I
> > suspect the problem is with the TL072's subcircuit I
> > downloaded from TI.  I am not able to find any info on the
> > components used in the subcircuit and therefore am having a
> > tough time finding what is causing the faults.
>
> > Also gnucap's
> > documentation refers you to a tutorial that I haven't been
> > able to find.
>
> There is a file "acs-tutorial" in the "doc" directory.
>
> It was written a long time ago and doesn't describe changes made
> since then.
>
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] project-micSwitch]$ gnucap micSwitch4Sim.cir
>
> I am not sure what you intend, but you are running it in
> interactive mode, using the circuit in micSwitch4Sim.cir.
>
> > Gnucap 0.35
>
> > micSwitch4Sim.sch EGND 99  0 POLY(2) (3,0) (4,0) 0 .5 .5
> >  ^ ? need 1 more nodes
> >   EGND 99  0 POLY(2) (3,0) (4,0) 0 .5 .5
> >^ ? what's this?
> >   FB7 99 POLY(5) VB VC VE VLP VLN 0 4.715E6 -5E6 5E6 5E6
> >  ^ ? what's this?
>
> High order POLY is not supported yet.
>
> >   J1   11  2 10 JX
> >   ^ ? illegal type
> >   J2   12  1 10 JX
> >   ^ ? illegal type
> > .MODEL JX PJF(IS=15.00E-12 BETA=270.1E-6 VTO=-1)
> >  ^ ? not implemented
>
> JFET is not built-in.  To use a JFET, you need the development
> version, and the JFET plugin, which is in the "models-spice3f5"
> tarball.
>
>
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gEDA-user: Simulation questions using gnucap

[Robert Butts]

Below is the output from gnetlist and gnucap.  Toward the bottom is the
gnucap output where it lists "?" faults.  I suspect the problem is with the
TL072's subcircuit I downloaded from TI.  I am not able to find any info on
the components used in the subcircuit and therefore am having a tough time
finding what is causing the faults.  Also gnucap's documentation refers you
to a tutorial that I haven't been able to find.


--

- Starting internal netlist creation
 C CpnPpnnP CpnP CpnP CpnP CpnP CpnnnPPpnP CpnnnPPpnP CpnnnPPpnP CpnnnPPpnP
C CpnP CpP
PpnP CpnnPPpnP CpnP CpnP CpnPpnnP CpnnPpnP CpnP
CpnnnPPpnPpnnPnnPpnnnPPpnnnPP Cpn
nPPpnPpnPnPpnnnPPpnnnPP CpnnnPP CpnnnPP CpnnnPP CpnnnPP
CpPPpnnnPP Cpnn
nPPpnnP CpnnP CpnnPpnP DONE

- Staring post processing
- Naming nets:
pnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnpnp
npnpnpnpnpnpnpnpn DONE
- Renaming nets:
 DONE
- Resolving hierarchy:
 DONE
 DONE

- Staring post processing
- Naming nets of graphical objects:
 DONE

Internal netlist representation:

component R1
pin 2 (2) 1
R1 2 [1277]
X1 2 [4663]
pin 1 (1) V1
R1 1 [1286]
V1 1 [6455]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (1) Null net name
C4 2 [1542]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (1) Null net name
C2 2 [2022]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (1) Null net name
C3 2 [1782]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (1) Null net name
C1 2 [2236]

component C4
pin 1 (+) -Vcc
C4 1 [1527]
X1 4 [5269]
pin 2 (-) GND
C4 2 [1542]

component C3
pin 1 (+) Vcc
C3 1 [1767]
X1 8 [5280]
pin 2 (-) GND
C3 2 [1782]

component C2
pin 1 (+) -Vcc
C2 1 [2007]
X1 4 [4699]
pin 2 (-) GND
C2 2 [2022]

component C1
pin 1 (+) Vcc
C1 1 [2221]
X1 8 [4710]
pin 2 (-) GND
C1 2 [2236]

component A1

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (1) Null net name
V1 2 [6474]

component R5
pin 2 (2) computerMic
R5 2 [3258]
R3 2 [6123]
X1 1 [4688]
pin 1 (1) GND
R5 1 [3267]

component R6
pin 2 (2) ecuMic
R6 2 [3429]
X1 5 [5198]
X1 7 [5258]
pin 1 (1) GND
R6 1 [3438]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (1) Null net name
R6 1 [3438]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (1) Null net name
R5 1 [3267]

component R4
pin 2 (2) 2
R4 2 [3661]
X1 6 [5233]
pin 1 (1) V2
R4 1 [3670]
V2 1 [3840]

component V2
pin 1 (+) V2
V2 1 [3840]
R4 1 [3670]
pin 2 (-) GND
V2 2 [3862]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (1) Null net name
V2 2 [3862]

component X1
pin 3 () 3
X1 3 [4628]
R3 1 [6132]
R2 2 [6266]
pin 2 () 1
X1 2 [4663]
R1 2 [1277]
pin 1 () computerMic
X1 1 [4688]
R5 2 [3258]
R3 2 [6123]
pin 4 () -Vcc
X1 4 [4699]
C2 1 [2007]
pin 8 () Vcc
X1 8 [4710]
C1 1 [2221]

component X1
pin 5 () ecuMic
X1 5 [5198]
R6 2 [3429]
X1 7 [5258]
pin 6 () 2
X1 6 [5233]
R4 2 [3661]
pin 7 () ecuMic
X1 7 [5258]
X1 5 [5198]
R6 2 [3429]
pin 4 () -Vcc
X1 4 [5269]
C4 1 [1527]
pin 8 () Vcc
X1 8 [5280]
C3 1 [1767]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (1) Null net name
C2 1 [2007]
X1 4 [4699]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (1) Null net name
C1 1 [2221]
X1 8 [4710]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (1) Null net name
C3 1 [1767]
X1 8 [5280]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (1) Null net name
C4 1 [1527]
X1 4 [5269]

component R3
pin 2 (2) computerMic
R3 2 [6123]
R5 2 [3258]
X1 1 [4688]
pin 1 (1) 3
R3 1 [6132]
X1 3 [4628]
R2 2 [6266]

component R2
pin 2 (2) 3
R2 2 [6266]
X1 3 [4628]
R3 1 [6132]
pin 1 (1) GND
R2 1 [6275]

component SPECIAL
pin 1 (1) Null net name
   

gEDA-user: New system log from my crashed fedora

[Robert Butts]

Here is the latest message file the fedora forum people suggested I get.
See attached


rc.sysinit
Description: Binary data


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Re: gEDA-user: Who likes a challenge?

[Robert Butts]

Short answer, I've no idea what's going on. Does the log just stop
there?

If this isn't a rhetorical question I would say I have even less of an
idea.  I'd default to the Fedora forum.

Thanks Peter

On Dec 6, 2007 3:11 PM, Peter Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> On Thu, 2007-12-06 at 14:49 -0500, Robert Butts wrote:
> > I was finally able to get my boot messages after frying my operating
> > system trying to install gwave.  It doesn't make much sense to me YET
> > so I'm hoping someone else will see what's going on.  I attached the
> > file.
>
> There isn't enough information there to see why the operating system
> services are failing to start, those messages just represent the kernel
> bootup log, not anything relating to operating system services.
>
> There are some strange errors coming from one of the ATA disk drive
> buses though, although they quiet down after probe time.
>
> Short answer, I've no idea what's going on. Does the log just stop
> there?
>
> I'm guessing there may be some other informative logs under /var/log/...
> but I've just no idea which to suggest you look at (since I don't run
> Fedora).
>
> /var/log/syslog
> /var/log/messages
> /var/log/daemon.log
>
> Might be interesting, but your logs may not correspond (in filename or
> contents) to those I have on my system.
>
> --
> Peter Clifton
>
> Electrical Engineering Division,
> Engineering Department,
> University of Cambridge,
> 9, JJ Thomson Avenue,
> Cambridge
> CB3 0FA
>
> Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!)
>
>
>
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gEDA-user: Who likes a challenge?

[Robert Butts]

I was finally able to get my boot messages after frying my operating system
trying to install gwave.  It doesn't make much sense to me YET so I'm hoping
someone else will see what's going on.  I attached the file.


boot.messages
Description: Binary data


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Re: gEDA-user: 2 make errors installing gwave

[Robert Butts]

Wow, incredible support!

Don't let anyone say you don't help out newbies.

I have the kids this weekend so I won't get a chance to work on this until
late Sunday est.

Thanks!

On Dec 1, 2007 11:12 AM, Dan McMahill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Werner Hoch wrote:
>
>
> >> It seems strange to me that when there is an obvious, easy to
> >> read for humans, easy for a computer to read, easy to generate
> >> format, that everything except Spice uses ..  that Spice
> >> doesn't change to that format.
> >
> >> Every Spice variant has its own raw format.  They should all be
> >> thrown away.
> >
> > Yes, but I'd still would like to have a "standard" binary format.
> > hdf5 would be nice.
> > http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu/products/hdf5/index.html
>
> How well to ascii output files scale when you want to write out 30,000
> node voltages and be able to pick out one to plot without it taking a
> long time?  I don't know the answer, but it seems like a binary format
> could have advantages there.
>
> Like Werner, I've also wondered about hdf5 since there is a library
> available for it and octave and I believe scilab both support it.  My
> weak understanding of hdf5 is that it would meet some of the
> requirements for a simulator output file (you can write many variables a
> sample at a time instead of .mat file where you write all the samples of
> 1 variable followed by all the samples of another).  It also appears
> that it would not nearly be enough to just say "hdf5" but you'd have to
>  further specify the file format.
>
> In terms of commercial simulators, it is annoying as all get out that
> they insist on wanting to use their own proprietary binary formats for
> results because sometimes you really want to get the data into a
> different tool.  grr.  This is clearly an area where geda can hands
> down win just by documenting the file format used.
>
> -Dan
>
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: 2 make errors installing gwave

[Robert Butts]

I was able to get to a console and log in but couldn't find this log file.
What command can I use that will give me a list of commands available?

On Nov 30, 2007 3:19 PM, al davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> reply in pieces...
>
> On Friday 30 November 2007, Robert Butts wrote:
> > I don't know if I went with the wrong distribution when
> > selecting Fedora. A freind suggested it because they were
> > rumored to have good support. In hind sight I probably
> > should have asked everyone here, the gEDA gurus, what is the
> > best distribtion to use with gaf since this is the reason I
> > started using linux. Oh well, if this is unrecoverable, and
> > I'm hoping it isn't, then consider the question out there!
>
> Explicitly asking here will get you a flood of "this one is
> better than that one" without any reason why.  Rather, you
> should "implicitly" ask ..  by observing.
>
> The simple answer to "which distribution" is "use the one your
> friends are using".   More reasonably, check to see which ones
> best support the applications you want to run.  Since this is
> gEDA, check the distributions to see what they support.  See
> how up to date the packages are.  Check the headers on the
> email messages of the people making the software to see what
> they use.
>
> You need to choose between "stable" distributions and "unstable"
> distributions.  If you don't care about having the latest, or
> are willing  to build from source to get the latest, choose
> a "stable" distribution.  If you want the latest, easily,
> choose an "unstable" distribution.  If you want to keep up with
> development as it happens, you will be building from source
> anyway, so it doesn't matter.
>
> You need make a base choice about the packaging.  Some are based
> on packages that are precompiled.  Some are "source based", so
> the package manager really just tames the build process,
> compiling on your machine.
>
> Consider what it takes to update to a new version of the
> distribution.  For some, you need to reinstall, so it will seem
> like you are always stuck with an old one.  Others, a simple
> command can keep it up to date, without a reinstall.  I would
> consider only distros that can be updated to the latest version
> with a simple command.
>
> Consider what kind of organization is behind the distribution.
> Some are corporate, some are totally community, some are mixed.
>
> Consider what the inclusion policy is.  Some are very strict
> about "free".  Some cut a little slack.  Some have categories,
> so the core can be strict, and have an extra section with a
> little slack, or a lot of slack.  Some freely
> include "non-free", which in this scope means what the MS
> people call "free", or "zero-cost propriatary".  Some
> applications may or may not be there because of this policy.
> You will not get a correct answer by expilcitly asking this
> question.  You must determine it yourself by what packages are
> included and where they are placed.
>
> Most have both stable and unstable variants.  If you install
> stable, you should be able to switch to unstable with a simple
> command.  Sometimes you can do a partial switch.  Sometimes the
> way to get to unstable is to install stable and switch.
>
> I deliberately didn't mention names.  You need to figure that
> out for yourself.  To choose a good distribution, ask these
> questions.  That will point you to the one you want.
>
>
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: 2 make errors installing gwave

[Robert Butts]

Thanks for all the input, however, I have a BSOD!

I thought I was being safe by posting those questions prior to screwing
with, and screwing up, my system but somehow screwing up is the end result.
I started up in linux, fedora 7, to have at it again.  After some script
flashing past me during boot up, some oks but quite a few fails, I got the
following screen:

---
Server authorization directory (daemon/ServAuthDir) is set to /var/gdm but
this does not exist.  Please correct GDM.

This message was in a gray box on a blue screen with an  underneath.

---

I'm hoping someone knows exactly what this is and how to unbrake it.  It
would be difficult to reproduce the steps I've been through.  I can say
fairly confidently I did not edit any file or move any file.  The only file
I opened was the gwave configure file and I opened it in a text editor.  I
made no changes but I doubt that is the problem.  Really the only thing I
did the since I came up successfully was search for and view  directories
and files.

I don't know if I went with the wrong distribution when selecting Fedora.  A
freind suggested it because they were rumored to have good support.  In hind
sight I probably should have asked everyone here, the gEDA gurus, what is
the best distribtion to use with gaf since this is the reason I started
using linux.  Oh well, if this is unrecoverable, and I'm hoping it isn't,
then consider the question out there!

Perhaps we should take a step back and look at the big picture.  What
are you trying to do?

Nothing specific, get comfortable with simulation.  I came from using Mentor
products, GUI driven, quite some time ago.  I started using LTSpice because
it seemed familiar.  Then decided to resist the GUI urge and get comfortable
with ngspice and/or gnucap as many suggested it is worth the effort.  When
eventual simulation happens simulation will mostly be mixed signal control
systems, some audio.

That's it.  Someone to the rescue!

On Nov 30, 2007 7:46 AM, Peter Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 22:55 -0500, Dan McMahill wrote:
> > al davis wrote:
> > > On Thursday 29 November 2007, Stuart Brorson wrote:
> > >>  Yeah, I know that several people will now chime in and say
> > >> "It's easy!
> > >
> > > I think he's using Fedora ...  Isn't there a package available?
> > >  How about:
> > > "yum install gwave"
> > >
> > >
> > >   but you are correct. There is a real problem here.
> > > and the creator of gwave doesn't hang out here.
> >
> > it doesn't help that guile-gtk basically died.  gwave either has to do a
> > rewrite and dump guile-gtk or it has to use guile-gnome (or whatever it
> > is called) which adds another whole large pile of dependencies.
> > Otherwise it is stuck with guile-gtk that uses gtk1.
>
> The latest gwave uses GTK2, with guile-gnome etc.. This said, there were
> some issues I encountered when building it (harder than gwave in some
> cases), and it didn't seem as stable (so I kept using the older gwave
> for "production" use).
>
> --
> Peter Clifton
>
> Electrical Engineering Division,
> Engineering Department,
> University of Cambridge,
> 9, JJ Thomson Avenue,
> Cambridge
> CB3 0FA
>
> Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!)
>
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: 2 make errors installing gwave

[Robert Butts]

There is an executable in /usr/local/bin named guile.  There is a
usr/local/share/guile/1.6 directory.  There are two directories named 1.6and
1.8 in usr/share/guile.  So I guess I'm not sure where it was installed and
I'd rather not guess.  Other than searching for guile files how can I tell
where they are installed?

If they are installed in the same place but with different names,
/usr/local/bin/guile and /usr/local/bin/guile16 for example, then you
need to edit that build.. script and change the call at the top from
guile to guile16.

If you couldn't tell already, I am new to Linux so this is somewhat vague to
me.  In this example what type of file would guile and guile16 be scheme,
executable...?  When you say build.. script, do you mean the gwave configure
script?  Could you give me just a little more detail?  Thanks!

On Nov 28, 2007 11:06 PM, Dan McMahill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If you have them both installed, are they in different directories or do
> they have different names?  If different directories, then just do
> something like this
>
> env PATH=/path/to/guile-1.6/bin:${PATH} ./configure
>
> If they are installed in the same place but with different names,
> /usr/local/bin/guile and /usr/local/bin/guile16 for example, then you
> need to edit that build.. script and change the call at the top from
> guile to guile16.
>
> -Dan
>
> Robert Butts wrote:
> > Dan is correct in that I have guile-1.6 and 1.8 installed.  It was
> > suggested that I install 1.6 and see if it would run with 1.8.  My
> > question is can I remove 1.8 without messing something else up?
> >
> > On Nov 28, 2007 6:00 PM, al davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >
> > On Wednesday 28 November 2007, Robert Butts wrote:
> >  > 'm trying to install gwave-20060606 on my system which is
> >  > Fedora 7, i386. I created a temporary directory and unpacked
> >  > gwave. I configured gwave with no faults but got 2 make
> >  > errors.
> >
> > Most likely you have guile-1.8 installed.  You need guile-1.6.
> > On debian the package needed is "guile-1.6-dev".
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: 2 make errors installing gwave

[Robert Butts]

Dan is correct in that I have guile-1.6 and 1.8 installed.  It was suggested
that I install 1.6 and see if it would run with 1.8.  My question is can I
remove 1.8 without messing something else up?

On Nov 28, 2007 6:00 PM, al davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wednesday 28 November 2007, Robert Butts wrote:
> > 'm trying to install gwave-20060606 on my system which is
> > Fedora 7, i386. I created a temporary directory and unpacked
> > gwave. I configured gwave with no faults but got 2 make
> > errors.
>
> Most likely you have guile-1.8 installed.  You need guile-1.6.
> On debian the package needed is "guile-1.6-dev".
>
>
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gEDA-user: 2 make errors installing gwave

[Robert Butts]

I'm trying to install gwave-20060606 on my system which is Fedora 7, i386.
I created a temporary directory and unpacked gwave.  I configured gwave with
no faults but got 2 make errors.  I have attached two text files, the
./configure output and the make output..

Thanks


gwave configure printout
Description: Binary data


gwave make printout
Description: Binary data


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gEDA-user: Installing guile-gtk-0.5

[Robert Butts]

I want to install guile-gtk-0.5 and found guile-gtk-0.5-3.3.i586.rpm
and tried to install it.  After downloading dependencies I got these
results:

-
Downloading Packages:
(1/6): ORBit-0.5.17-21.fc 100% |=| 349 kB00:11
(2/6): libxml-1.8.17-15.f 100% |=| 230 kB00:03
(3/6): libglade-0.17-19.f 100% |=| 100 kB00:01
(4/6): gdk-pixbuf-0.22.0- 100% |=| 227 kB00:03
(5/6): libpng10-1.0.29-1. 100% |=| 123 kB00:01
(6/6): gnome-libs-1.4.2-7 100% |=| 1.1 MB00:15
warning: rpmts_HdrFromFdno: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID 6b9d6523


Public key for guile-gtk-0.5-3.3.i586.rpm is not installed
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Desktop]#
-

Is this the correct version of guile-gtk to be used with gtk-1.2?

What is:
Public key for guile-gtk-0.5-3.3.i586.rpm is not installed

and what do I have to do to install guile-gtk?


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Re: gEDA-user: Questions on downloading and installing gnucap and gwave

[Robert Butts]

How can I verify that guile-gtk is installed?  I tried rpm -v
guile-gtk-0.5-3.3.i586 and guile-gtk-0.5-3.3.i586.rpm but just got a
help screen on how to use rpm.

Thanks

On Nov 25, 2007 6:03 PM, Robert Butts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I tried rpm -e guile-gtk-0.5-3.3 and rpm -e guile-gtk-0.5-3.3.i586 but
> I get not installed errors.  I tried searching for guile-gtk and only
> found the rpm.  If its installed does this find it or do I have to
> goto the directory?
>
>
> On Nov 25, 2007 5:06 PM, Peter TB Brett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Sunday 25 November 2007 22:00:04 Robert Butts wrote:
> > > I installed guile-gtk-0.5 but mistakenly installed the wrong version.
> > > I installed guile-gtk-0.5-3.3.i586.rpm.  I tried to configure gwave
> > > with the same results: Need guile-gtk 0.17 or later.  How do I
> > > uninstall guile-gtk?
> > >
> >
> > rpm -e guile-gtk-0.5-3.3
> >
> >
> >Peter
> >
> > --
> > Peter Brett
> >
> > Electronic Systems Engineer
> > Integral Informatics Ltd
> >
> >
> >
>
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> >
>


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Re: gEDA-user: Questions on downloading and installing gnucap and gwave

[Robert Butts]

I tried rpm -e guile-gtk-0.5-3.3 and rpm -e guile-gtk-0.5-3.3.i586 but
I get not installed errors.  I tried searching for guile-gtk and only
found the rpm.  If its installed does this find it or do I have to
goto the directory?

On Nov 25, 2007 5:06 PM, Peter TB Brett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sunday 25 November 2007 22:00:04 Robert Butts wrote:
> > I installed guile-gtk-0.5 but mistakenly installed the wrong version.
> > I installed guile-gtk-0.5-3.3.i586.rpm.  I tried to configure gwave
> > with the same results: Need guile-gtk 0.17 or later.  How do I
> > uninstall guile-gtk?
> >
>
> rpm -e guile-gtk-0.5-3.3
>
>
>Peter
>
> --
> Peter Brett
>
> Electronic Systems Engineer
> Integral Informatics Ltd
>
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: Questions on downloading and installing gnucap and gwave

[Robert Butts]

I installed guile-gtk-0.5 but mistakenly installed the wrong version.
I installed guile-gtk-0.5-3.3.i586.rpm.  I tried to configure gwave
with the same results: Need guile-gtk 0.17 or later.  How do I
uninstall guile-gtk?


On Nov 25, 2007 8:52 AM, Dan McMahill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Peter Clifton wrote:
> > On Sat, 2007-11-24 at 22:57 +, Peter TB Brett wrote:
> >> On Saturday 24 November 2007 21:04:30 Robert Butts wrote:
> >>
> >>> checking for build-guile-gtk... no
> >>> configure: error: Need guile-gtk 0.17 or later
> >>>
> >>> I found guile-gtk 2.0 at http://www.gnu.org/software/guile-gtk/
> >> This package isn't available on Fedora; you will need to build & install it
> >> from source.
> >
> > I got the impression the other configure tests were looking for GTK+1.x,
> > so you may need to check which version you want to build.
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience building gwave, who can say which
> > version is required?
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Peter C.
>
> I've always used guile-gtk-0.5 and gtk-1.2.x to build gwave.  Thats what
> NetBSD's pkgsrc uses.
>
> -Dan
>
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: Questions on downloading and installing gnucap and gwave

[Robert Butts]

And the fun continues...

I have

gtk+-devel
gtk2-devel
glibc-devel
guile-devel
gettext-devel
flex
bison
make
gcc
gcc-c++

I then tried to configure gwave with the results below:

checking for build-guile-gtk... no
configure: error: Need guile-gtk 0.17 or later

I found guile-gtk 2.0 at http://www.gnu.org/software/guile-gtk/

Is this the best place to get it?
How can I find what other software gwave will check for or should I
just keep doing the install missing software/configure gwave loop?

On Nov 24, 2007 2:46 AM, Peter TB Brett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Friday 23 November 2007 20:36:56 Robert Butts wrote:
> > I tried to install gwave and got the error listed in the previous
> > post.  Now I need to install gtk+ 1.0.1 or later.  The package manager
> > shows I have gtk+ - 1:1-2-10-57-fc7-i386.  Is this the same?  If so,
> > why is it not recognized?  Did the naming convention change?  When
> > searching for software, is there a general location?
> >
>
> You need (at least) the following packages for most software compilation:
>
> gtk2-devel
> glibc-devel
> guile-devel
> gettext-devel
> flex
> bison
> make
> gcc
> gcc-c++
>
> If you use Pirut, just select the "Development Tools", "Development Libraries"
> and "GNOME Software Development" categories -- the defaults will pull in
> everything you need.
>
>Peter
>
> --
> Peter Brett
>
> Electronic Systems Engineer
> Integral Informatics Ltd
>
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: Questions on downloading and installing gnucap and gwave

[Robert Butts]

I tried to install gwave and got the error listed in the previous
post.  Now I need to install gtk+ 1.0.1 or later.  The package manager
shows I have gtk+ - 1:1-2-10-57-fc7-i386.  Is this the same?  If so,
why is it not recognized?  Did the naming convention change?  When
searching for software, is there a general location?

On Nov 22, 2007 5:50 PM, Robert Butts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm down to installing gwave.  I am getting the following after doing
> a ./configure:
>
> --
> checking for GTK - version >= 1.0.1... no
> *** The gtk-config script installed by GTK could not be found
> *** If GTK was installed in PREFIX, make sure PREFIX/bin is in
> *** your path, or set the GTK_CONFIG environment variable to the
> *** full path to gtk-config.
> configure: error: Can not find GTK+ 1.0.1 or later on this system
> --
>
> I checked my package manger and found the following:
>
> gtk+ - 1:1-2-10-57-fc7-i386
> gtk+-devel - 1:1-2-10-57-fc7-i386
> gtk+extra - 2.1.1-5.fc7-i386
> gtk+extra-devel - 2.1.1-5.fc7-i386
>
> And a whole slew of gtk's.  As I was looking to see what gtks I have I
> noticed gtkwave - 3.0.28
>
> What do I need to do now?
>
>
> On Nov 20, 2007 2:30 PM, Peter Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 2007-11-20 at 14:12 -0500, Robert Butts wrote:
> > > This is getting comical.  Here's the results-de-jour:
> > >
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]# yum install g++
> > > Setting up Install Process
> > > Parsing package install arguments
> > > No package g++ available.
> > > Nothing to do
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]#
> > >
> > > I have seven flavors of gcc: gcc, gcc-c++, gcc-gfortran, gcc-gnat,
> > > gcc-java, gcc-objc and gcc-objc++.  Would installing gcc and gcc-c++
> > > be fine?
> >
> > gcc is the C compiler,
> > gcc-c++ is the C++ compiler
> >
> > Yes, this should be what you want, but try pulling in some commonly
> > needed development tools and prerequisites with this command:
> >
> > yum install build-essentials
> >
> > When you build, and find it can't find certain libraries etc.., it
> > probably means you need to install the "-dev" or "-devel" versions of
> > those library packages.
> >
> > PS..
> >
> > gcc-gfortran is the Fortran compiler
> > gcc-gnat is the Ada compiler
> > gcc-java is the Java compiler
> > gcc-objc is the Objective C compiler
> > gcc-objc++ is the Objective C++ compiler
> >
> > None of those languages are used in the gEDA suite (as far as I know).
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > --
> > Peter Clifton
> >
> > Electrical Engineering Division,
> > Engineering Department,
> > University of Cambridge,
> > 9, JJ Thomson Avenue,
> > Cambridge
> > CB3 0FA
> >
> > Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
> >
>


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Re: gEDA-user: Questions on downloading and installing gnucap and gwave

[Robert Butts]

I'm down to installing gwave.  I am getting the following after doing
a ./configure:

--
checking for GTK - version >= 1.0.1... no
*** The gtk-config script installed by GTK could not be found
*** If GTK was installed in PREFIX, make sure PREFIX/bin is in
*** your path, or set the GTK_CONFIG environment variable to the
*** full path to gtk-config.
configure: error: Can not find GTK+ 1.0.1 or later on this system
--

I checked my package manger and found the following:

gtk+ - 1:1-2-10-57-fc7-i386
gtk+-devel - 1:1-2-10-57-fc7-i386
gtk+extra - 2.1.1-5.fc7-i386
gtk+extra-devel - 2.1.1-5.fc7-i386

And a whole slew of gtk's.  As I was looking to see what gtks I have I
noticed gtkwave - 3.0.28

What do I need to do now?

On Nov 20, 2007 2:30 PM, Peter Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2007-11-20 at 14:12 -0500, Robert Butts wrote:
> > This is getting comical.  Here's the results-de-jour:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]# yum install g++
> > Setting up Install Process
> > Parsing package install arguments
> > No package g++ available.
> > Nothing to do
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]#
> >
> > I have seven flavors of gcc: gcc, gcc-c++, gcc-gfortran, gcc-gnat,
> > gcc-java, gcc-objc and gcc-objc++.  Would installing gcc and gcc-c++
> > be fine?
>
> gcc is the C compiler,
> gcc-c++ is the C++ compiler
>
> Yes, this should be what you want, but try pulling in some commonly
> needed development tools and prerequisites with this command:
>
> yum install build-essentials
>
> When you build, and find it can't find certain libraries etc.., it
> probably means you need to install the "-dev" or "-devel" versions of
> those library packages.
>
> PS..
>
> gcc-gfortran is the Fortran compiler
> gcc-gnat is the Ada compiler
> gcc-java is the Java compiler
> gcc-objc is the Objective C compiler
> gcc-objc++ is the Objective C++ compiler
>
> None of those languages are used in the gEDA suite (as far as I know).
>
> Best wishes,
>
> --
> Peter Clifton
>
> Electrical Engineering Division,
> Engineering Department,
> University of Cambridge,
> 9, JJ Thomson Avenue,
> Cambridge
> CB3 0FA
>
> Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!)
>
>
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: Questions on downloading and installing gnucap and gwave

[Robert Butts]

This is getting comical.  Here's the results-de-jour:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]# yum install g++
Setting up Install Process
Parsing package install arguments
No package g++ available.
Nothing to do
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]#

I have seven flavors of gcc: gcc, gcc-c++, gcc-gfortran, gcc-gnat,
gcc-java, gcc-objc and gcc-objc++.  Would installing gcc and gcc-c++
be fine?

On Nov 20, 2007 12:33 AM, al davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Monday 19 November 2007, al davis wrote:
> > To fix it, you need to install a compiler. It isn't needed
> > for gwave, but if you want to compile gnucap, and its
> > plugins, you will need C++ too.
>
> clarify 
>
> C++ isn't needed for gwave.  C is.  (and guile 1.6)
>
>
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: Questions on downloading and installing gnucap and gwave

[Robert Butts]

I use fedora 7 which does not have gwave.  The package manager did not
list guile-1.6 so I downloaded guile-1.6.8 and tried to install it
using the same method you suggested for gwave.  I got the following
results after trying ./configure:

checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
checking whether build environment is sane... yes
checking for gawk... gawk
checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes
checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... no
checking for gcc... no
checking for cc... no
checking for cc... no
checking for cl... no
configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH
See `config.log' for more details.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] guile-1.6.8]#


On Nov 19, 2007 3:47 PM, al davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Monday 19 November 2007, Robert Butts wrote:
> > > A warning on gwave  It requires guile 1.6. It does
> > > not work with guile 1.8. Do "guile --version" to verify
> > > that.
> >
> > So what do I do if I have guile 1.8, which I do?
>
> Two possibilities:
> 1. Install guile 1.6.
> 2. If your distro has a package for gwave, use it.
>
> Sorry, but that is the only way I know that works.
>
> It is a known problem.  If it was my project, or if I knew
> anything about guile, I would fix it, fast.
>
> It is one of the problems with compiling from source.  Too
> often, there is a dependency on a particular version of
> something.  Another .. too often, the different versions cannot
> coexist on the same system.
>
> What is in question here is the development files.  If you must
> compile it yourself, go ahead and install guile-1.6-dev.  If it
> insists on removing guile-1.8-dev, go ahead and do it.  You can
> put them back when you need them.  It is only an issue for
> compiling.  Once you have compiled gwave, you can go back to
> guile-1.8.
>
>
> Is there anyone here who knows guile and is willing to fix it so
> it works with both versions?  If it can't be made to work with
> both, the new version only is preferred over the old version
> only.
>
>
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: Questions on downloading and installing gnucap and gwave

[Robert Butts]

> A warning on gwave   It requires guile 1.6.  It does not
> work with guile 1.8.  Do "guile --version" to verify that.

So what do I do if I have guile 1.8, which I do?

On Nov 17, 2007 3:04 AM, al davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Friday 16 November 2007, Robert Butts wrote:
> > When extracting gwave, should I extract it to: usr/share/?
>
> No.
>
> When you unpack a source tarball, do it in a place you can work
> on it, not a public place like /usr/share.
>
> Usually, you do "./configure" then "make".  Then try it where it
> is.  To install it is usually "sudo make install".
>
> I didn't check this one, but most by default install
> in /usr/local   ..  This means the parts are put
> in /usr/local/bin , /usr/local/share , or whatever.
>
> There are differences of opinion on where applications should be
> installed.  Usually the distribution you are using has made
> some decisions, and you should stick to that.
>
> For Linux, it is most common that packages managed by the
> package manager go in /usr
> (meaning /usr/bin, /usr/lib, /use/share .)
> and you should install non-managed packages in /usr/local.  This
> is deliberately a different place from the managed packages.
>
>
> A warning on gwave   It requires guile 1.6.  It does not
> work with guile 1.8.  Do "guile --version" to verify that.
>
> If you try to use 1.8, the messages it gives are not
> particularly useful.
>
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: Questions on downloading and installing gnucap and gwave

[Robert Butts]

When extracting gwave, should I extract it to: usr/share/?

On Nov 15, 2007 5:35 PM, al davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thursday 15 November 2007, Robert Butts wrote:
> > Where can I get gwave and how do I install it?
> > Where can I get gnucap?
>
> Have you tried:
> $  yum install gwave gnucap
> ?
>
> I thought Fedora had the latest stable gEDA related packages.
>
> For source ...
>
> gnucap Stable version:
> http://gnucap.org/archive/gnucap-0.35.tar.gz
> or...
> http://geda.seul.org/dist/gnucap-0.35.tar.gz
>
> gnucap Development version:
> http://gnucap.org/devel/gnucap-2007-11-14.tar.gz
>
> Extra plugins for development version.
> (Probably not needed.  Use only if you need them.)
> http://gnucap.org/devel/gnucap-2007-11-14-models-bsim.tar.gz
> http://gnucap.org/devel/gnucap-2007-11-14-models-ngspice17.tar.gz
> http://gnucap.org/devel/gnucap-2007-11-14-models-spice3f5.tar.gz
> http://gnucap.org/devel/gnucap-2007-11-14-tools.tar.gz
>
>
> gwave
> http://geda.seul.org/dist/gwave-20060606.tar.gz
>
>
> Gnucap is usually easy to compile and install.  Gwave often has
> issues.  I'm not sure how to advise on it.
>
>
> >
> > Does anyone use audacity?
> >
> I have used a little.  Debian sid has 1.3.3.
> It is not a substitute for gwave.  Whoever suggested it as a
> replacement for gwave probably doesn't understand what it does,
> or what gwave does.
>
>
>
>
>
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gEDA-user: Questions on downloading and installing gnucap and gwave

[Robert Butts]

I posted a question on the fedora forum asking how to install an app,
gwave, downloaded from SourceForge.

This is one of the responces:
-
seeing as this program has not been updated sense January 9, 2001
you might want to check out audacity.i386
---
# yum install audacity.i386
---

also i just looked at the code and seeing as it is so old it needs a
full rewright to compile in gcc 4.1
it may compile in gcc 3.2 ??? but i would not hold my breath .
-

Where can I get gwave and how do I install it?

Does anyone use audacity?

Where can I get gnucap?

Thanks


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gEDA-user: Line and mic signal characteristics?

[Robert Butts]

I've been trying to find info on line and mic level signal characteristics.
I checked ieee for an audio signal, computer io... standards and anything
else I thought would lead me to a definition of each and came up with
nothing.

Any direction is grately appreciated.


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Re: gEDA-user: Question regarding 1st LTSpice simulation

[Robert Butts]

When I'm creating the link how do you type the space in the directory
Program Files?  See below:

/fake_windows/Program Files/LTC/SwCADIII/MyDesign.cir

On 9/16/07, Andy Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Sep 16, 2007, at 12:49 PM, Robert Butts wrote:
>
> >  I'm doing an LTSpice simulation and following Stuart's howto.  In the
> > Running LTSpice with gEDA designs step 5 is:
> >
> > Create a link from your netlist "output.net" and a netlist in the
> > directory
> > in which SwCADIII lives. Make the netlist suffix .cir. For example:
> > ln -s
> > ${DESIGN_HOME}/output.net ${WINE_HOME}/.wine/fake_windows/Program
> > Files/LTC/SwCADIII/MyDesign.cir
> >
> > My questions are these:
> >
> > 1.  Earlier in the howto I was directed to netlist my design and
> > name it
> > design.cir.  This is the netlist in my design directory and it ends
> > in .cir
> > not .net.  Should Stuart's howto read ${DESIGN_HOME}/output.cir and
> > not
> > output.net?
>
> LTSpice doesn't care whether the netlist is called .net or .cir.
>
> > 2.  Did I miss something and I was supposed to copy the netlist to the
> > directory in which SwCADIII lives or does the link create a phantom
> > netlist?
>
> you can open the file from anywhere; it does not have to be in the
> SwCAD III directory.  However, SwCADIII has a ridiculous hard-coded
> library directory structure ...
>
> -a
>
>
>
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gEDA-user: Question regarding 1st LTSpice simulation

[Robert Butts]

I tell my son the only dumb question is the one never asked.  So with
that...

 I'm doing an LTSpice simulation and following Stuart's howto.  In the
Running LTSpice with gEDA designs step 5 is:

Create a link from your netlist "output.net" and a netlist in the directory
in which SwCADIII lives. Make the netlist suffix .cir. For example: ln -s
${DESIGN_HOME}/output.net ${WINE_HOME}/.wine/fake_windows/Program
Files/LTC/SwCADIII/MyDesign.cir

My questions are these:

1.  Earlier in the howto I was directed to netlist my design and name it
design.cir.  This is the netlist in my design directory and it ends in .cir
not .net.  Should Stuart's howto read ${DESIGN_HOME}/output.cir and not
output.net?

2.  Did I miss something and I was supposed to copy the netlist to the
directory in which SwCADIII lives or does the link create a phantom netlist?

Thanks,
Rob


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