Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 18:57:44 + Peter Clifton wrote: > On Mon, 2011-02-28 at 18:06 +0100, Felix Ruoff wrote: > > Ctrl+0 will restore those to a "nominal" size too - but I don't think > this is relevant for gEDA. I don't think "zoom to fit" quite matches. Base the "nominal" zoom level on the DPI of the monitor on which the PCB window (or most of it) is sitting, as reported by X. I'd go with a default of two pixels per DPI (such that on an average ~100 DPI screen, one inch of board spans 200 pixels), but allow the user to adjust the ratio. Automatically fall back to "zoom to fit" if the rendered image would end up smaller than the window, like it does now. -- "There are some things in life worth obsessing over. Most things aren't, and when you learn that, life improves." http://starbase.globalpc.net/~ezekowitz Vanessa Ezekowitz ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
Am 28.02.2011 19:57, schrieb Peter Clifton: On Mon, 2011-02-28 at 18:06 +0100, Felix Ruoff wrote: I like the current behaviour using the wheel for zooming in and out. What I tried to suggest is adding the accelerators Ctrl and the Plus/minus - Keys for this. Ok, I think we misunderstood you. Your proposed short-cuts would match most web-browsers where the font size can be changed. Ctrl+0 will restore those to a "nominal" size too - but I don't think this is relevant for gEDA. I don't think "zoom to fit" quite matches. Thanks for the answer! Now it's clear to me! ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
On Mon, 2011-02-28 at 18:06 +0100, Felix Ruoff wrote: > I like the current behaviour using the wheel for zooming in and out. > What I tried to suggest is adding the accelerators Ctrl and the > Plus/minus - Keys for this. Ok, I think we misunderstood you. Your proposed short-cuts would match most web-browsers where the font size can be changed. Ctrl+0 will restore those to a "nominal" size too - but I don't think this is relevant for gEDA. I don't think "zoom to fit" quite matches. > The behaviour of the scroll wheel can stay > at it is for me. Many people prefer it this way, so I don't think people will let me get away with pushing my personal preference into git HEAD! I'll keep patching my local build. ;) -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
Am 28.02.2011 17:24, schrieb Kai-Martin Knaak: Felix Ruoff wrote: Ctrl+- and Ctr++ are the suggested accelerators for this action by the GNOME Hid-guidelines With the vast majority of gnome applications zoom is rarely used, or not at all. Scroll is much more common. It pays in terms of usability to have the most common actions accessible with as little hassle as possible. That's why binding the wheel without modifier to vertical scroll makes sense in the context of Gnome HID. By contrast, zoom is one of the most common GUI actions in gschem and pcb. There is a down side to the bindings suggested by the Gnome HID: You always need both hands to navigate the layout or circuit. IMHO, this downside outweighs the benefit of bindings compatible to other applications. BTW, Peter Clifton has this defined in his localized branch of pcb+gl. ---<)kaimartin(>--- I am sorry, but I don't know what you mean with your answer. (This might be caused by my poor english...) I like the current behaviour using the wheel for zooming in and out. What I tried to suggest is adding the accelerators Ctrl and the Plus/minus - Keys for this. The behaviour of the scroll wheel can stay at it is for me. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
On Mon, 2011-02-28 at 17:24 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Felix Ruoff wrote: > > > Ctrl+- and Ctr++ are the suggested accelerators for this action by the > > GNOME Hid-guidelines > > With the vast majority of gnome applications zoom is rarely used, > or not at all. Scroll is much more common. It pays in terms of usability > to have the most common actions accessible with as little hassle as > possible. That's why binding the wheel without modifier to vertical scroll > makes sense in the context of Gnome HID. The issue comes when you do have true X and Y scroll bars on your input device (e.g. many touch-pads), and in that case there is an unnecessary disparity between the required user-action for horizontal and vertical scrolling. It would be ideal if we could defer to the user's system-wide preference for the intended action, rather than defining this ourselves. It is clearly an issue with no one "correct" answer - and platform consistency is important to many users. I watched several students using gEDA and xgsch2pcb today, and already have a quite long list of usability improvement bugs to file (for "someone" to fix later). (There was also a more serious bug where xgsch2pcb chokes when you put spaces in your schematic names, due to lack of escaping in the gsch2pcb project file). > By contrast, zoom is one of the most common GUI actions in gschem and pcb. > There is a down side to the bindings suggested by the Gnome HID: You > always need both hands to navigate the layout or circuit. IMHO, this > downside outweighs the benefit of bindings compatible to other > applications. > > BTW, Peter Clifton has this defined in his localized branch of pcb+gl. I eventually decided I prefer consistency with the rest of my desktop, so changed it in my "local_customisation_..." branches. I can get used to either way - but switching between the two is very hard! -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
Felix Ruoff wrote: > Ctrl+- and Ctr++ are the suggested accelerators for this action by the > GNOME Hid-guidelines With the vast majority of gnome applications zoom is rarely used, or not at all. Scroll is much more common. It pays in terms of usability to have the most common actions accessible with as little hassle as possible. That's why binding the wheel without modifier to vertical scroll makes sense in the context of Gnome HID. By contrast, zoom is one of the most common GUI actions in gschem and pcb. There is a down side to the bindings suggested by the Gnome HID: You always need both hands to navigate the layout or circuit. IMHO, this downside outweighs the benefit of bindings compatible to other applications. BTW, Peter Clifton has this defined in his localized branch of pcb+gl. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmk&op=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
jpka wrote: > This >> behaviour should probably go away. Switching to mm doesn't neccessarily >> mean you want a mm-related grid. > > +1, already done. +1 This alone would make me want this patch. :-) ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmk&op=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
> I would like to suggest using '#' for enable/disable grid, perhaps '%' > for grid-realign (or your new version of this) and Ctrl+- / Ctrl++ for > zooming in/out. Partially done, in progress. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
> Does the grid still change in case you swap the measurement unit? Now, not. This > behaviour should probably go away. Switching to mm doesn't neccessarily > mean you want a mm-related grid. +1, already done. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
Am 14.02.2011 um 07:37 schrieb jpka: Now i know my work is welcomed, so i will try to do it according to your suggestions. Does the grid still change in case you swap the measurement unit? This behaviour should probably go away. Switching to mm doesn't neccessarily mean you want a mm-related grid. For the more general target, I think it would be a good idea to have a grid-free future in mind. It's not neccessary to do that immediately, but one day the grid-based approach might be replaced with one using alignment functions, similar to how general drawing applications work these days. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. (FH) Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
Am 14.02.2011 07:37, schrieb jpka: 3. Make g (and maybe shift-g) keys to change active grid. Sorry, it's interfere with current keybinding. I would like to suggest using '#' for enable/disable grid, perhaps '%' for grid-realign (or your new version of this) and Ctrl+- / Ctrl++ for zooming in/out. Ctrl+- and Ctr++ are the suggested accelerators for this action by the GNOME Hid-guidelines (see [1]http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/nightly/menus-standard.html. de#menu-standard-view), # and % are used in some other graphic-software like Inkscape. To use this keys, you need to add them to the KeyTable (key_table[]) in src/hid/gtk/gui-top-window.c as shown in the patch of LP:699493. Kind regards, Felix References 1. http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/nightly/menus-standard.html.de#menu-standard-view ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
Hi all! Thanks for replies. Now i know my work is welcomed, so i will try to do it according to your suggestions. The main goals of my work is: 1. Make more than one level of grid. When we zoom out too far, grid now not disappears, but replaces by super grid of another color. The amount of zooming is controlled by Step field seen in my screenshot. Colors are selectable via common colors menu settings. This is done and need beta-testing. 2. Make more user grids and more user friendly grid management. In current state of pcb, i see in source code many work on grids via menu and via ./pcb-menu.res, but sorry it's almost not usable by me. Also grids hardly separated to mil and mm groups, but i prefer one space for all, because i work on boards where mil- and mm-based parts used together. Change grid size by step is also not clear, IMHO. So i take attempt to fix it. I rework grid management so user has it's own preferable grids, mixed in mil and mm, and (must) saved into pcb file. This is almost done (except pcb file read, i modify file format) and need beta-testing. 3. Make g (and maybe shift-g) keys to change active grid. Sorry, it's interfere with current keybinding. 4. Introduce GridOrigin instance in replace of GridOffset one. The reason for this is when i tie grid to object and then change grid size, grid is dancing around my object but not fall in needed place. Now it not only fixed, but grid origin can be now displayed on board via special sign like 'Mark' sign. Grid origin can now taken from visible 'Mark', which is IMHO more professional than floating cursor pointing. (You place 'Mark' sign, ensure it falls where need, then tie grid origin to 'mark'). This is done (except sign drawing, which is work, but need look of gtk experts) and need beta-testing. 5. All grid settings must saved into pcb file. This is in progress. 6. Match command-line grid related commands to new state of grid ideology. This is planned. 7. Some other improvements partially done. I will post my diff for beta testing soon. Please suggest me a virus-free and registration-free service to post my (big) screenshots. I think it's not a good idea (if even possible) to post it directly here. Also where is best place to post beta diffs? Thanks! ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
On 2/10/2011 4:49 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: joeft wrote: I see that this site is flagged as containing a virus by a number of AV programs. I'd be surprised if this was relevant to linux users in any reasonable way. A linux virus sighting in the wild would make a major stir in geek worldia, since there had been none since 2002. ---<)kaimartin(>--- True enough in that I have only used gEDA on linux, but I do occasionally *read* this list on a Windoze machine. Joe T ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
On 2/10/11 7:43 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: To be pedantic, and I don't mean to be rude...Strictly speaking, this is a mailing list, not a newsgroup. The geda mailing lists are served by gmane.org in usenet format. According to the header jpka sent the message with pan, which is a newsreder. Whether or not gmane is usenet is a matter of ideology. Oh my, I stand corrected, I didn't know it was Usenet-accessible at all! -Dave, back under my rock -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
joeft wrote: > I see that this site is flagged as containing a virus by a number of AV > programs. I'd be surprised if this was relevant to linux users in any reasonable way. A linux virus sighting in the wild would make a major stir in geek worldia, since there had been none since 2002. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
Dave McGuire wrote: >To be pedantic, and I don't mean to be rude...Strictly speaking, this > is a mailing list, not a newsgroup. The geda mailing lists are served by gmane.org in usenet format. According to the header jpka sent the message with pan, which is a newsreder. Whether or not gmane is usenet is a matter of ideology. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
On Thu, 2011-02-10 at 10:04 +, jpka wrote: > Hi! > I'm currently working on advanced user grid management for pcb. > Anyone interested in this? Or maybe want to beta-testing my code? > Example: http://img202.imageshack.us/i/pcbgrids.jpg/ > (values are editable in this table) > Also, currently nobody works on grids, or i'm wrong? > I also need help in translation my work to lesstif's pcb, i'm was > notified that more chances to see my code in main tree if i will work on > both GTK & lesstif. > This is my first post in newsgroup in my life, sorry if anything is > wrong. I writing only to web forums before. I like the look of that. I'm always happy to test code if people point me at their patches or git repository. Seems like a nice feature to have in PCB. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
Hi, > -Original Message- > From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org > [mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of jpka > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:04 AM > To: geda-u...@seul.org > Subject: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb > > Hi! > I'm currently working on advanced user grid management for pcb. > Anyone interested in this? Or maybe want to beta-testing my code? > Example: http://img202.imageshack.us/i/pcbgrids.jpg/ > (values are editable in this table) > Also, currently nobody works on grids, or i'm wrong? > I also need help in translation my work to lesstif's pcb, i'm > was notified that more chances to see my code in main tree if > i will work on both GTK & lesstif. > This is my first post in newsgroup in my life, sorry if > anything is wrong. I writing only to web forums before. > > > Nice that you start up your own things in such a short time. Maybe it's an idea to look into minor and major grid lines or dots, as was introduced in gschem some time ago. This, and the nice font rendering, are a very appreciated features. Just my EUR 0.02 on the subject Kind regards, Bert Timmerman. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
On 2/10/11 5:04 AM, jpka wrote: I'm currently working on advanced user grid management for pcb. Anyone interested in this? Or maybe want to beta-testing my code? Example: http://img202.imageshack.us/i/pcbgrids.jpg/ (values are editable in this table) Also, currently nobody works on grids, or i'm wrong? I also need help in translation my work to lesstif's pcb, i'm was notified that more chances to see my code in main tree if i will work on both GTK& lesstif. I think this is an excellent idea. This is my first post in newsgroup in my life, sorry if anything is wrong. I writing only to web forums before. To be pedantic, and I don't mean to be rude...Strictly speaking, this is a mailing list, not a newsgroup. (is there any gEDA activity on Usenet?) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
A Warning!! I see that this site is flagged as containing a virus by a number of AV programs. The original poster should re-post from another site and maybe someone can remove the original posting? Joe T On 2/10/2011 2:04 AM, jpka wrote: Hi! I'm currently working on advanced user grid management for pcb. Anyone interested in this? Or maybe want to beta-testing my code? Example: http://img202.imageshack.us/i/pcbgrids.jpg/ (values are editable in this table) Also, currently nobody works on grids, or i'm wrong? I also need help in translation my work to lesstif's pcb, i'm was notified that more chances to see my code in main tree if i will work on both GTK& lesstif. This is my first post in newsgroup in my life, sorry if anything is wrong. I writing only to web forums before. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
> I also need help in translation my work to lesstif's pcb, i'm was Once the core code is ready, I can help with the lesstif-specific stuff. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Advanced grids in GTK Pcb
jpka: ... > Example: http://img202.imageshack.us/i/pcbgrids.jpg/ It says "Grigs" under "Increments" in the left column, probably a misspelling. ... > I also need help in translation my work to lesstif's pcb, i'm was > notified that more chances to see my code in main tree if i will work on > both GTK & lesstif. ... In your example above, the windows title bar says "PCB Preferences". I think that the preferences thing is in the gtk hid only. In the lesstif hid, there is a menu "Settings", but grids are choosen in submenu "View"->"Grid". The menu is constructed at compile time from src/pcb-menu.res where the grid choises are hardcoded and parsed at program start time by resource_parse() unless a file "pcb-menu.res" is available in ./pcb-menu.res, ~/.pcb/pcb-menu.res, ... For me it is ok to hand edit that file. What are you working on, is it simply a gui for setting the grid choises or something else? What could be interesting is to have different grids for different things, like: . something this big snaps to 2mm raster, this medium sized object snaps to 1mm raster . via's snaps to a 1mm raster, components to 2mm, signal traces 0.5mm . this connector has imperial pitch, let it snap to 0.05" raster, this connector has 5mm pitch, let it snap to a 1mm raster Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden +46 173 140 57 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
