Re: gEDA-user: Eagle to gEDA conversion path??
On Tuesday 23 February 2010, Dave N6NZ wrote: > Really? Is there a use for gEDA->Eagle? Lots of reasons. Whether you like it or not, it is popular. Some people will insist on it. If gEDA is ever to replace Eagle, there needs to be a migration path both ways. If Free/open-source is ever to make it to the mainstream, the various free packages need to share. That includes Kicad. Regarding Kicad and gEDA, think of it like vi and emacs. It must be possible to use them interchangeably, but you will never convince a fan of one to use the other, and it will harm both if you try. > > I never would have cared about Eagle, except that the RepRap > PCB's are done with Eagle. Now, why someone would do open > source hardware with closed source tools is a mystery to > me... but anyway so far in a total of 30 minutes of > Eagle usage I've discovered: 1) the crippleware version only > allows a single schematic sheet, leading people to create > unreadable glop, and 2) printing is truly bizarre. I can't > imagine someone going from gEDA to the free/crippled version > of Eagle. > And as to going to the commercial version, OK I > can see some customer requiring that, but isn't that Eagle's > problem? No. They are on top. Remember the golden rule: He who has the gold makes the rules. They have no business reason to cooperate. > After all, nobody is hiding gEDA's file formats. True, but they are not really designed for general exchange. Rather, they are more like a dump of the internal representation. There is no possibility that anyone outside would adopt such a tool-specific format. For interchange, it is necessary to abstract the content to something that is equally meaningful in all contexts. Don't forget .. there is layout too, and lots of other tools and ways to use it. The only representation that is equally meaningful in all contexts is a circuit, a netlist. Then augment it with the extra information needed to render it as a schematic, and as a layout. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Eagle to gEDA conversion path??
On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:53:46 -0800, Dave N6NZ wrote: > Really? Is there a use for gEDA->Eagle? There is at my place. I represent an island of geda in an eagle using environment. Eagle is pretty popular in German academia. If I want to share my work with them, a conversion path to eagle would help a lot. > I never would have cared about Eagle, except that the RepRap PCB's are > done with Eagle. Same here. Sometimes I have to reuse eagle projects made by others. ---<(kaimartin)>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmk&op=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Eagle to gEDA conversion path??
On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:29 PM, timecop wrote: > ulp is eagle script file. Ahhh > i assumed if you wanted to convert something, you'd have eagle running. Just barely, and just recently. And not for much total time yet. > im pretty sure ulp can access to library data as well, so something to > output ascii can be easily written. Well, diptrace must have the same problem. You either need to map from one library to the other, or export enough of the library that you can import into the new library the required symbols. > > diptrace is payware pcbcad, but freely downloadable version also > includes these 2 conversion scripts. (Eagle_to_DipTrace_SCH.ulp and > Eagle_to_DipTrace_PCB.ulp). A^2 > > since eagle .sch/.pcb format isnt documented and no external libs > available to read it (as far as i know), the only way to export > anything is write/use a script run inside eagle. That makes a lot of sense, even when the file format *is* well documented. The question is then, how much munging does it take to transmute diptrace ascii exchange format into gEDA stuff. -dave > > On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Dave N6NZ wrote: >> >> On Feb 22, 2010, at 9:08 PM, timecop wrote: >> >>> Diptrace has a pair of ulp scripts to convert eagle project to ascii >>> schematic and pcb. >> OK, although I don't know what either Diptrace or ulp are. Sounds like a >> good place to start, though. >> >> I'm wondering how the library issue would be handled. Presumably, it reads >> the Eagle library and spits out symbol information as part of the ascii? >> >>> after some creative editing to make output format match geda, it >>> should be fairly feature compelte >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:36 PM, al davis wrote: >> I proposed a translator system, using an intermediate language, to translate both ways between schematic, layout, and simulation. It needs to happen. >> >> Really? Is there a use for gEDA->Eagle? >> >> I never would have cared about Eagle, except that the RepRap PCB's are done >> with Eagle. Now, why someone would do open source hardware with closed >> source tools is a mystery to me... but anyway so far in a total of 30 >> minutes of Eagle usage I've discovered: 1) the crippleware version only >> allows a single schematic sheet, leading people to create unreadable glop, >> and 2) printing is truly bizarre. I can't imagine someone going from gEDA >> to the free/crippled version of Eagle. And as to going to the commercial >> version, OK I can see some customer requiring that, but isn't that Eagle's >> problem? After all, nobody is hiding gEDA's file formats. >> >> -dave >> >> ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Eagle to gEDA conversion path??
ulp is eagle script file. i assumed if you wanted to convert something, you'd have eagle running. im pretty sure ulp can access to library data as well, so something to output ascii can be easily written. diptrace is payware pcbcad, but freely downloadable version also includes these 2 conversion scripts. (Eagle_to_DipTrace_SCH.ulp and Eagle_to_DipTrace_PCB.ulp). since eagle .sch/.pcb format isnt documented and no external libs available to read it (as far as i know), the only way to export anything is write/use a script run inside eagle. On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Dave N6NZ wrote: > > On Feb 22, 2010, at 9:08 PM, timecop wrote: > >> Diptrace has a pair of ulp scripts to convert eagle project to ascii >> schematic and pcb. > OK, although I don't know what either Diptrace or ulp are. Sounds like a > good place to start, though. > > I'm wondering how the library issue would be handled. Presumably, it reads > the Eagle library and spits out symbol information as part of the ascii? > >> after some creative editing to make output format match geda, it >> should be fairly feature compelte >> >> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:36 PM, al davis wrote: > >>> >>> I proposed a translator system, using an intermediate language, >>> to translate both ways between schematic, layout, and >>> simulation. It needs to happen. > > Really? Is there a use for gEDA->Eagle? > > I never would have cared about Eagle, except that the RepRap PCB's are done > with Eagle. Now, why someone would do open source hardware with closed > source tools is a mystery to me... but anyway so far in a total of 30 > minutes of Eagle usage I've discovered: 1) the crippleware version only > allows a single schematic sheet, leading people to create unreadable glop, > and 2) printing is truly bizarre. I can't imagine someone going from gEDA to > the free/crippled version of Eagle. And as to going to the commercial > version, OK I can see some customer requiring that, but isn't that Eagle's > problem? After all, nobody is hiding gEDA's file formats. > > -dave > > > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Eagle to gEDA conversion path??
On Feb 22, 2010, at 9:08 PM, timecop wrote: > Diptrace has a pair of ulp scripts to convert eagle project to ascii > schematic and pcb. OK, although I don't know what either Diptrace or ulp are. Sounds like a good place to start, though. I'm wondering how the library issue would be handled. Presumably, it reads the Eagle library and spits out symbol information as part of the ascii? > after some creative editing to make output format match geda, it > should be fairly feature compelte > > On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:36 PM, al davis wrote: >> >> I proposed a translator system, using an intermediate language, >> to translate both ways between schematic, layout, and >> simulation. It needs to happen. Really? Is there a use for gEDA->Eagle? I never would have cared about Eagle, except that the RepRap PCB's are done with Eagle. Now, why someone would do open source hardware with closed source tools is a mystery to me... but anyway so far in a total of 30 minutes of Eagle usage I've discovered: 1) the crippleware version only allows a single schematic sheet, leading people to create unreadable glop, and 2) printing is truly bizarre. I can't imagine someone going from gEDA to the free/crippled version of Eagle. And as to going to the commercial version, OK I can see some customer requiring that, but isn't that Eagle's problem? After all, nobody is hiding gEDA's file formats. -dave ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Eagle to gEDA conversion path??
Diptrace has a pair of ulp scripts to convert eagle project to ascii schematic and pcb. after some creative editing to make output format match geda, it should be fairly feature compelte On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:36 PM, al davis wrote: > On Monday 22 February 2010, Dave N6NZ wrote: >> Is there any automated Eagle to gEDA conversion path? >> >> (He says hopefully, but knowing it's highly unlikely.) > > No .. but since you mention it, it is time to ask again for help > in making something that will do this. > > I proposed a translator system, using an intermediate language, > to translate both ways between schematic, layout, and > simulation. It needs to happen. > > I don't have time to do it completely, but will guide if > someone steps up to do some coding. > > Kicad needs it too. It can be a joint effort, which will > strengthen both geda and kicad. > > There is a long list of translations that are needed. > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Eagle to gEDA conversion path??
On Monday 22 February 2010, Dave N6NZ wrote: > Is there any automated Eagle to gEDA conversion path? > > (He says hopefully, but knowing it's highly unlikely.) No .. but since you mention it, it is time to ask again for help in making something that will do this. I proposed a translator system, using an intermediate language, to translate both ways between schematic, layout, and simulation. It needs to happen. I don't have time to do it completely, but will guide if someone steps up to do some coding. Kicad needs it too. It can be a joint effort, which will strengthen both geda and kicad. There is a long list of translations that are needed. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
