Re: gEDA-user: Adding extra layer
der Mouse schrieb: >> Anyway, memory is cheap. > > Only for mainstream mass-market hardware. > > Of course, that may be all gEDA cares about > >> If we lose users in order to save 1 K, or even 1 Meg of RAM, that >> doesn't make sense. > > Depends. To what extent is "more users" an overriding good? > > In this particular case, I think the conclusion is correct. I just > don't like the reasoning being advanced here. (I would even more > prefer to see max-layers settable at startup time, but I daresay that > would be a substantially more intrusive change.) > For the majority of users memory is cheap. If there are more users that want more layers than there are users that don't have enough memory, the limit should be increased. This will minimize the number of users that have to change the #define and recompile. It should be noted in the documentation where to change it and that it's a number-of-layers vs. memory usage tradeoff, so those that don't have memory (and those that want even more layers) know what to do. I suggest to increase the number to 32 for a start. Philipp ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Adding extra layer
> Anyway, memory is cheap. Only for mainstream mass-market hardware. Of course, that may be all gEDA cares about > If we lose users in order to save 1 K, or even 1 Meg of RAM, that > doesn't make sense. Depends. To what extent is "more users" an overriding good? In this particular case, I think the conclusion is correct. I just don't like the reasoning being advanced here. (I would even more prefer to see max-layers settable at startup time, but I daresay that would be a substantially more intrusive change.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML[EMAIL PROTECTED] / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Adding extra layer
The right thing to do is dynamically allocate (and reallocate) memory as needed, so there is no compiled-in limit. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Adding extra layer
> metal layers: 10 > top & bottom silk: 2 > top & bottom paste: 2 > top & bottom mask: 2 > drill (plated & unplated): 2 > fab layer: 1 > outline layer: 1 > > That's 20 layers to support a not-very-agressive board using our > current PCB architecture. And if we add stuff like keepout layers and > so on, then that calls for more layers. If we supported all these types of layers, yeah, more would be appropriate. We don't. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Adding extra layer
>> Is there any reason we don't set this to something like 64 or 128 in >> the distributed program itself? > > It affects the size of many arrays, so making it arbitrarily large > eats up memory. Sorry for replying yet again. I promise to not rant any more! :-) Consider this: A board with say 10 layers is not uncommon for folks designing with BGAs. (I'm sure somebody will quibble and say that the layer count can easily be more, but that supports my forthcoming point.) OK, add to 10 layers all the other stuff we need to support: metal layers: 10 top & bottom silk: 2 top & bottom paste: 2 top & bottom mask: 2 drill (plated & unplated): 2 fab layer: 1 outline layer: 1 That's 20 layers to support a not-very-agressive board using our current PCB architecture. And if we add stuff like keepout layers and so on, then that calls for more layers. So 32 or more layers doesn't sound unreasonable, does it? Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Adding extra layer
>> Is there any reason we don't set this to something like 64 or 128 in >> the distributed program itself? > > It affects the size of many arrays, so making it arbitrarily large > eats up memory. So that begs the question: How much memory? Anyway, the big picture is this: For the average user, being told to change a number in a #define and then recompile is a big turn-off. For many users, this is an intimidating request, since they may have never compiled a program before. Indeed, lots of distros don't include gcc in the base install anymore. If PCB is an application program, we can't expect users to recompile it every time they want to change a parameter. Better to just set the max layer count to something larger than most people will ever encounter, and then tell the world that we support XXX layers, where XXX is large. That's good marketing. Anyway, memory is cheap. If we lose users in order to save 1 K, or even 1 Meg of RAM, that doesn't make sense. just MO, Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Adding extra layer
> Is there any reason we don't set this to something like 64 or 128 in > the distributed program itself? It affects the size of many arrays, so making it arbitrarily large eats up memory. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Adding extra layer
>> I have read a couple of posts about a patch and a compile switch to >> enable extra layers. What is the best approach to achieve this? > > In globalconst.h in your pcb source tree, change this: > > #define MAX_LAYER 16 /* max number of layer, check source > */ > > ... to something bigger, and recompile. That's all. Pardon me for butting in here Is there any reason we don't set this to something like 64 or 128 in the distributed program itself? Not all users know how to edit a source file and recompile, and a small limit like 16 can be viewed as a misfeature. Wouldn't it be better to be able to clain "Out of the box PCB supports up to 128 layers..."? just MO, Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Adding extra layer
> I have read a couple of posts about a patch and a compile switch to > enable extra layers. What is the best approach to achieve this? In globalconst.h in your pcb source tree, change this: #define MAX_LAYER 16 /* max number of layer, check source */ ... to something bigger, and recompile. That's all. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Adding extra layer
I have a 10 layer pcb that I have just completed routing. I need to create a board outline with some notches etc and when I try to add an extra layer for the outline I can not, as I am maxed out at the 16 layer limit (i.e. 10 routing layers + silk + rats + pads + vias + far side + solder mask). I have read a couple of posts about a patch and a compile switch to enable extra layers. What is the best approach to achieve this? Regards, Neil ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
