Re: gEDA-user: Asking questions, obtaining answers ...
>> My main concern is, that somebody will have to watch the launchpad thingy >> and answer all the newbie questions. Until there is a user base >> comparable with inkscape, this has to be done by developers and long time >> users. Is it realistic to do this kind of service in addition to the >> mailing lists, the wiki and the official manuals? [] > I guess if my goal were to be achieved through the use of "Answers", > allowing more users to make first contact, then yes - there could be > more work involved. If it were to become too much work, the stock > response could resort to being "ask on the geda-user mailing list". Actually, I'll probably just do a cut and paste job from the wiki for most questions on launchpad. I can also provide a link to the appropriate answer on the wiki. IMO, it's not a hassle at all. On the contrary -- it lowers the barrier to getting newbie questions answered, which is good for everybody. Thanks, Peter, for getting this set up! Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Asking questions, obtaining answers ...
On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 01:07 +, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > > If they are new signups to the > > email list, they WILL ask the same questions over and over. > > Well, isn't this the reason there are two mailing lists user- and > developer- ? They just happen to look the same because there are not so > many non developer users registered to the list. geda-user doesn't exist so people can avoid to RTFM, no.. I guess more its to keep devel traffic from boring those who don't care - or to allow it not to get swamped in active user traffic. In reality, neither are much of a problem for us. > > > Try this: > > > > https://answers.launchpad.net/inkscape/+addquestion > > I get "To continue, you must log in to Launchpad." plus a registration > form. After giving away my email address to yet another potential source > of spam I can type my question. Looks sleek :-) > > My main concern is, that somebody will have to watch the launchpad thingy > and answer all the newbie questions. Until there is a user base > comparable with inkscape, this has to be done by developers and long time > users. Is it realistic to do this kind of service in addition to the > mailing lists, the wiki and the official manuals? Its set to email the admins when anyone asks a question.. For now, at least - that means I will answer questions. wikis aren't for asking questions, but I do get your point about collecting information together in one location though. I guess if my goal were to be achieved through the use of "Answers", allowing more users to make first contact, then yes - there could be more work involved. If it were to become too much work, the stock response could resort to being "ask on the geda-user mailing list". -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Asking questions, obtaining answers ...
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 00:31:07 +0100, Peter Clifton wrote: >> How about a slight modification of the idea: Put a link to a web based >> email form in the help menu. The email address would be hard wired to >> the user mailing list. No changes to the existing infra structure. > > Does the "right thing" happen the first time a user emails that address > without being signed up to the mailing list? (Having signed up before my > first posting, I don't know the answer myself). You get an email to confirm, that your email is valid. IMHO, this is the right thing. > The main benefit of an "answers" database type system, is that users can > see existing questions before asking. This already works with the current set-up. Type "geda launchpad" in a google window ;-) I'll admit that the launchpad solution is much more organized. > If they are new signups to the > email list, they WILL ask the same questions over and over. Well, isn't this the reason there are two mailing lists user- and developer- ? They just happen to look the same because there are not so many non developer users registered to the list. > Try this: > > https://answers.launchpad.net/inkscape/+addquestion I get "To continue, you must log in to Launchpad." plus a registration form. After giving away my email address to yet another potential source of spam I can type my question. Looks sleek :-) My main concern is, that somebody will have to watch the launchpad thingy and answer all the newbie questions. Until there is a user base comparable with inkscape, this has to be done by developers and long time users. Is it realistic to do this kind of service in addition to the mailing lists, the wiki and the official manuals? ---<(kaimartin)>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak http://lilalaser.de/blog ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Asking questions, obtaining answers ...
On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 19:31 -0400, Stuart Brorson wrote: > >> FWIW, somebody already signed gEDA up for a Launchpad acct: > > > > Peter B and I keep it up to date. It was originally registered by one of > > the gEDA users, but we (the gEDA developers) staged a coup. The reason > > we cared, was that Launchpad provides a very neat mechanism for > > translators to work in a less technical manner, allowing wider > > contribution. > > I just signed up as a developer & Peter B approved me. Thanks! > > >> Therefore, it's probably a simple matter of activating the "answers: > >> thingie and embedding a link into each app. > > > > Yep.. just wanted to get a feel for whether people liked the idea or not > > - both users and developers. > > I think it's a great idea! To me, it seems much more newbie friendly > than the e-mail list. Kinda like Ubuntu vs. my old SuSE box. Welcome > to the new face of Linux... In the spirit of SPAM, I've just signed up the gEDA administrators group to be an answer contact - so we get emailed if anyone asks a question. If people in this group don't like that idea, or the traffic grows too much, we can perhaps probably create another group for geda-questions or similar. NB.. AFAIK the answers app doesn't need switching on.. just no one has used it yet. I'll keep any eye myself, as its not good for our image if people do use it and questions go unanswered. Best wishes, -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Asking questions, obtaining answers ...
>> FWIW, somebody already signed gEDA up for a Launchpad acct: > > Peter B and I keep it up to date. It was originally registered by one of > the gEDA users, but we (the gEDA developers) staged a coup. The reason > we cared, was that Launchpad provides a very neat mechanism for > translators to work in a less technical manner, allowing wider > contribution. I just signed up as a developer & Peter B approved me. Thanks! >> Therefore, it's probably a simple matter of activating the "answers: >> thingie and embedding a link into each app. > > Yep.. just wanted to get a feel for whether people liked the idea or not > - both users and developers. I think it's a great idea! To me, it seems much more newbie friendly than the e-mail list. Kinda like Ubuntu vs. my old SuSE box. Welcome to the new face of Linux... Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Asking questions, obtaining answers ...
On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 22:56 +, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:55:46 -0400, Stuart Brorson wrote: > How about a slight modification of the idea: Put a link to a web based > email form in the help menu. The email address would be hard wired to the > user mailing list. No changes to the existing infra structure. Does the "right thing" happen the first time a user emails that address without being signed up to the mailing list? (Having signed up before my first posting, I don't know the answer myself). The main benefit of an "answers" database type system, is that users can see existing questions before asking. If they are new signups to the email list, they WILL ask the same questions over and over. Try this: https://answers.launchpad.net/inkscape/+addquestion Type in the box, "Bitmap output antialiasing settings" (as an example I've tested). User will see their question may already have been answered - before they are allowed to proceed asking a new one. The searches for existing answers work without a launchpad account, but you can't use the: URL: https://answers.launchpad.net/inkscape/+addquestion Try: https://answers.launchpad.net/inkscape/] Best wishes, -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Asking questions, obtaining answers ...
On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 18:54 -0400, Stuart Brorson wrote: > FWIW, somebody already signed gEDA up for a Launchpad acct: Peter B and I keep it up to date. It was originally registered by one of the gEDA users, but we (the gEDA developers) staged a coup. The reason we cared, was that Launchpad provides a very neat mechanism for translators to work in a less technical manner, allowing wider contribution. One of my TODO tasks is to merge and resolve any conflicts from the changed translations in Launchpad and git. We have already gained some support for Turkish, IIRC. > Therefore, it's probably a simple matter of activating the "answers: > thingie and embedding a link into each app. Yep.. just wanted to get a feel for whether people liked the idea or not - both users and developers. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Asking questions, obtaining answers ...
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:55:46 -0400, Stuart Brorson wrote: > For us, however, it may represent a lot of maintainence work. We're a > small project with a finite number of developers whose time is already > streched between family, work, other activities, and gEDA. The idea is to expand the community and broaden the pool of potential aides. The project might profit from more users like me -- I wouldn't call myself a developer, but gladly answer usage questions on the mailing list... > However,maintaining a BBS means administering the box or finding > hosting. I could install a message board on one of my webspaces. Shared hosting has become pretty cheap these days. However, I don't like a separate www forum for users, if only because of all the maintenance issues you mentioned. How about a slight modification of the idea: Put a link to a web based email form in the help menu. The email address would be hard wired to the user mailing list. No changes to the existing infra structure. ---<(kaimartin)>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak http://lilalaser.de/blog ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Asking questions, obtaining answers ...
FWIW, somebody already signed gEDA up for a Launchpad acct: https://launchpad.net/geda Therefore, it's probably a simple matter of activating the "answers: thingie and embedding a link into each app. Stuart On Sun, 30 Mar 2008, Peter Clifton wrote: > At the risk of being accused a Canonical / Launchpad fan-boy, if this > were an idea we wanted to implement, I'd take a fair bit of convincing > that we didn't just want to use Launchpad answers... > > > On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 17:55 -0400, Stuart Brorson wrote: >> The idea is twofold: >> >> 1. Create a web-based "support bulletin board". This would be a lot >> like the e-mail list, except that you wouldn't need to subscribe or >> read your e-mail. > > Launchpad answers does require a launchpad account, and reading your > email is a good way to know the question has had a response. Ok, there > is still some barrier to entry. > >> 2. Put a link into each program's help menu item which would open a >> browser up on the support bulletin board page. > > Thats the basic idea. > >> My thought: In principle, a great idea. Indeed, lots of commercial >> software products include stuff like this. >> >> For us, however, it may represent a lot of maintainence work. We're a >> small project with a finite number of developers whose time is >> already streched between family, work, other activities, and gEDA. >> However, maintaining a BBS means administering the box or finding >> hosting. Next, somebody must diligently watch the BBS and remove >> spam, flames, and off-topic junk. Oh, and answer questions too. > > > Using an existing service does take away the pain of writing / > maintaining the web-app code. > >> Hm I'm sorry that sounds so negative. Is there a way to make >> the support site self-service, like the wiki? After all, we already >> link to the wiki from within gschem. > > > For many projects I've come across, there are good users out there who > will monitor the the answers pages and help those in need of help. > > If it worked, the community has a good opportunity to grow around this. > If not, it would be at least some of the pain you describe. The primary > concern I had that if it were to turn out the idea doesn't work, we've > deployed "n" copies of gEDA irrevocably with a given web-address in it. > > We could, I guess, use a re-direct page on one of our servers, so if the > idea didn't fly we could replace the page with "Sorry, answers facility > closed, please see the geda-user mailing list". > > The web-access logs a redirect page may provide interesting statistics > on the size of our user-base (without needing to make gEDA evil and > phone home). We can probably bet many users will click the menu item > even if they don't end up asking a question. > > -- > Peter Clifton > > Electrical Engineering Division, > Engineering Department, > University of Cambridge, > 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, > Cambridge > CB3 0FA > > Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) > > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Asking questions, obtaining answers ...
> At the risk of being accused a Canonical / Launchpad fan-boy, if this > were an idea we wanted to implement, I'd take a fair bit of convincing > that we didn't just want to use Launchpad answers... H. OK, I just looked into Launchpad. Looks intriguing. > For many projects I've come across, there are good users out there who > will monitor the the answers pages and help those in need of help. Folks already do that on the e-mail list. Therefore, folks will also do it on Launchpad. I agree. > If it worked, the community has a good opportunity to grow around this. I like it.. I'll continue reading up on Launch pad. You may be convincing me. Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Asking questions, obtaining answers ...
At the risk of being accused a Canonical / Launchpad fan-boy, if this were an idea we wanted to implement, I'd take a fair bit of convincing that we didn't just want to use Launchpad answers... On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 17:55 -0400, Stuart Brorson wrote: > The idea is twofold: > > 1. Create a web-based "support bulletin board". This would be a lot > like the e-mail list, except that you wouldn't need to subscribe or > read your e-mail. Launchpad answers does require a launchpad account, and reading your email is a good way to know the question has had a response. Ok, there is still some barrier to entry. > 2. Put a link into each program's help menu item which would open a > browser up on the support bulletin board page. Thats the basic idea. > My thought: In principle, a great idea. Indeed, lots of commercial > software products include stuff like this. > > For us, however, it may represent a lot of maintainence work. We're a > small project with a finite number of developers whose time is > already streched between family, work, other activities, and gEDA. > However, maintaining a BBS means administering the box or finding > hosting. Next, somebody must diligently watch the BBS and remove > spam, flames, and off-topic junk. Oh, and answer questions too. Using an existing service does take away the pain of writing / maintaining the web-app code. > Hm I'm sorry that sounds so negative. Is there a way to make > the support site self-service, like the wiki? After all, we already > link to the wiki from within gschem. For many projects I've come across, there are good users out there who will monitor the the answers pages and help those in need of help. If it worked, the community has a good opportunity to grow around this. If not, it would be at least some of the pain you describe. The primary concern I had that if it were to turn out the idea doesn't work, we've deployed "n" copies of gEDA irrevocably with a given web-address in it. We could, I guess, use a re-direct page on one of our servers, so if the idea didn't fly we could replace the page with "Sorry, answers facility closed, please see the geda-user mailing list". The web-access logs a redirect page may provide interesting statistics on the size of our user-base (without needing to make gEDA evil and phone home). We can probably bet many users will click the menu item even if they don't end up asking a question. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Asking questions, obtaining answers ...
The idea is twofold: 1. Create a web-based "support bulletin board". This would be a lot like the e-mail list, except that you wouldn't need to subscribe or read your e-mail. 2. Put a link into each program's help menu item which would open a browser up on the support bulletin board page. My thought: In principle, a great idea. Indeed, lots of commercial software products include stuff like this. For us, however, it may represent a lot of maintainence work. We're a small project with a finite number of developers whose time is already streched between family, work, other activities, and gEDA. However, maintaining a BBS means administering the box or finding hosting. Next, somebody must diligently watch the BBS and remove spam, flames, and off-topic junk. Oh, and answer questions too. Hm I'm sorry that sounds so negative. Is there a way to make the support site self-service, like the wiki? After all, we already link to the wiki from within gschem. Stuart On Sun, 30 Mar 2008, Peter Clifton wrote: Hi guys, I just came across this blog post from an Inkscape developer: http://bryceharrington.org/drupal/inkscape-answers ??Bryce is also a Canonical employee, so there may be some Launchpad bias, but I think the idea is neat. We could similarly provide a more direct link to human help from gschem and other gEDA tools, from the help menu. I realise we currently have links to the wiki / FAQ, but feel there is a high barrier to entry for a new user to sign up to a mailing list for an answer to what might be a simple question, even if they can't find the answer in the FAQ. I'm very keen that we should encourage new users to join the gEDA community, and think this may be a good way to get them thinking more about gEDA as something they aren't "alone" in using. Any thoughts? -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Asking questions, obtaining answers ...
On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 22:44 +0100, Peter Clifton wrote: > Hi guys, > I'm very keen that we should encourage new users to join the gEDA > community, and think this may be a good way to get them thinking more > about gEDA as something they aren't "alone" in using. Missed some informational links about launchpad's answer tracker - as food for thought (even if we didn't want to use launchpad for this). https://answers.launchpad.net/+about https://answers.launchpad.net/+tour https://answers.launchpad.net/+faq > Any thoughts? > -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Asking questions, obtaining answers ...
Hi guys, I just came across this blog post from an Inkscape developer: http://bryceharrington.org/drupal/inkscape-answers Bryce is also a Canonical employee, so there may be some Launchpad bias, but I think the idea is neat. We could similarly provide a more direct link to human help from gschem and other gEDA tools, from the help menu. I realise we currently have links to the wiki / FAQ, but feel there is a high barrier to entry for a new user to sign up to a mailing list for an answer to what might be a simple question, even if they can't find the answer in the FAQ. I'm very keen that we should encourage new users to join the gEDA community, and think this may be a good way to get them thinking more about gEDA as something they aren't "alone" in using. Any thoughts? -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
