Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
Art Fore wrote: Also, can you do cross-probing between the schematic and layout? Cross-probing, if you don't know, is where you have both the schematic and layout open on the screen and they are linked so if you highlight a net or component on the schemtic, it is highlighted in the layout and vise versa. A fantastic tool when you are troubleshooting dense boards, especially prototypes. Art This is something I'm working on. Cross probing from schematic to layout works but is only in the CVS versions of gschem and is not enabled by default yet since it is still in the experimental stage. I do not have any layout to schematic cross probing done yet. This will probably take some more work as I don't believe (I could be wrong) that gschem has a way to listen for commands. -Dan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
[snip] >How large a schematic can the schematic capture handle?, That is, how >many pages, what sheet size. There are no limits that I'm aware of on schematic size. > >Does that schematic handle hierarchial schematics? Yes. Just keep in mind that 1) bus hierarchy is not supported and 2) output netlists are typically flattened. -Ales ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
Steve Meier wrote: > Right! So for the pick and place machine I am thinking of a radio > controlled model helicopter. I don't even want to contemplate the gass > bill for the oven. Alright Steve...Now it's up to YOU to tell me how to best get a mouthful of sangria out of a keyboard! -Dave -- Dave McGuire Cape Coral, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
Right! So for the pick and place machine I am thinking of a radio controlled model helicopter. I don't even want to contemplate the gass bill for the oven. DJ Delorie wrote: >>At what point due to curvature of the earth would we be forced to move >>from the cartesian coordinant system? >> > >At 0.338 miles, the deviation due to earth's curvature is about a >quarter of an inch. > >That doesn't mean we can't still build (or at least design) flat >things that big. > > >___ >geda-user mailing list >geda-user@moria.seul.org >http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user > > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
On Wed, 2006-07-19 at 19:01 -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > Art Fore wrote: > > I have a Postgresql database of about 3,000 parts, mostly surface mount, > > if anyone is interested. I can export it to many others also. Have to > > dig it out of my packed items, I am headed for Taiwan for a year as a > > consultant, though. Need to do it anyhow as I have reinstalled WinXP > > running in a virtual machine under Suse 10.1. (DXDesigner and PADS are > > the only two programs I run under Windows) > > It would be SO nice to have gschem and/or PCB be able to use a > client/server component database. In fact I'm practically drooling at > the mere thought of it. > > I'm very pleased to hear that you used Postgres for this. That's some > damn serious software. I am not a big fan of MySQL, having hit puberty > already. ;) > > -Dave > I don't care for MySql either. I think postgres is easier and also at the time, MySql did not have views. The views are for libraries such as Capacitors, Resistors, etc. It is much faster than setting up queries in your application. Art ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
> It would be SO nice to have gschem and/or PCB be able to use a > client/server component database. In fact I'm practically drooling > at the mere thought of it. http://www.gedasymbols.org/csv.html ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
> At what point due to curvature of the earth would we be forced to move > from the cartesian coordinant system? At 0.338 miles, the deviation due to earth's curvature is about a quarter of an inch. That doesn't mean we can't still build (or at least design) flat things that big. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
Art Fore wrote: > I have a Postgresql database of about 3,000 parts, mostly surface mount, > if anyone is interested. I can export it to many others also. Have to > dig it out of my packed items, I am headed for Taiwan for a year as a > consultant, though. Need to do it anyhow as I have reinstalled WinXP > running in a virtual machine under Suse 10.1. (DXDesigner and PADS are > the only two programs I run under Windows) It would be SO nice to have gschem and/or PCB be able to use a client/server component database. In fact I'm practically drooling at the mere thought of it. I'm very pleased to hear that you used Postgres for this. That's some damn serious software. I am not a big fan of MySQL, having hit puberty already. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Cape Coral, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
On Wed, 2006-07-19 at 15:09 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 02:56:28PM -0700, Art Fore wrote: > > We only need about 18 inches X 18 inches and up to 24 layers. How about > > ground planes? Does it also handle split ground planes? > > Heretic! Ground planes are by definition not split! > Fortunately for you, PCB is agnostic on the subject. :-) > Yes, it can handle split ground planes. Split ground planes are useful when you have Digital and Analog circuits on the same board. You do not want to overlap digital and analog ground planes unless you want noisy analog circuits. > > > What about the schematic capture, does it do hierarchial schematics? > > That is where, for example, you may have 32-channels of identical > > cicuitry and you do a schematic of one channel, then on the upper level, > > you use a symbol to represent that schematic 32 times. > > I can't speak for gschem. I use xcircuit, and it handles > this just fine (admittedly with a little help from perl). > But simple cross-probing between the schematic and layout > is beyond that lashup. My approach to multichannel design > mandates that the part numbers are coded with channel number. > For example, all resistors for channel 1 have the form R1xx, > and all resistors of the form Rx01 serve the same purpose in > their respective channels. Not doing this leads to madness. Yes, the channel # along with the refdes is the only way to go. In DxDesigner, it is very easy. You just add REFES-PREFIX= and the prefix to your upper level symbol. Since you will already have done the refdes on the underlying schematic, it will just add the channel prefix to the refdes on the lower level schematic. Will look at xcircuit. > > > DxDatabook also interfaces to your corporate parts > > database and you can link a datasheet to the part so you can have the > > datasheet at the click of a mouse. > > If your corporate parts database is publicly documented, we can > arrange to use it. gEDA tools don't keep secrets. I have a Postgresql database of about 3,000 parts, mostly surface mount, if anyone is interested. I can export it to many others also. Have to dig it out of my packed items, I am headed for Taiwan for a year as a consultant, though. Need to do it anyhow as I have reinstalled WinXP running in a virtual machine under Suse 10.1. (DXDesigner and PADS are the only two programs I run under Windows) > > - Larry Would like to go to gEDA as ePD (DxDesigner (aka Viewdraw), DxDatabook) is so expensive as is PADS Power PCB, about $40,000 to $60,000, depending on options. Can't stand Orcan, it has caused too many problems. I do find the cross-probing and DxDatabook very valuable, time saving, and better accuracy though. Art ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
At what point due to curvature of the earth would we be forced to move from the cartesian coordinant system? Steve Meier On Wed, 2006-07-19 at 18:10 -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > DJ Delorie wrote: > >> ...not to mention needing to find a fab house to build it! ;) > > > > I figure, by the time someone needs the board, someone will be able to > > build it. Not my problem. > > *snicker* Good point! > > -Dave > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
DJ Delorie wrote: >> ...not to mention needing to find a fab house to build it! ;) > > I figure, by the time someone needs the board, someone will be able to > build it. Not my problem. *snicker* Good point! -Dave -- Dave McGuire Cape Coral, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
> ...not to mention needing to find a fab house to build it! ;) I figure, by the time someone needs the board, someone will be able to build it. Not my problem. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 02:56:28PM -0700, Art Fore wrote: > We only need about 18 inches X 18 inches and up to 24 layers. How about > ground planes? Does it also handle split ground planes? Heretic! Ground planes are by definition not split! Fortunately for you, PCB is agnostic on the subject. :-) Yes, it can handle split ground planes. > What about the schematic capture, does it do hierarchial schematics? > That is where, for example, you may have 32-channels of identical > cicuitry and you do a schematic of one channel, then on the upper level, > you use a symbol to represent that schematic 32 times. I can't speak for gschem. I use xcircuit, and it handles this just fine (admittedly with a little help from perl). But simple cross-probing between the schematic and layout is beyond that lashup. My approach to multichannel design mandates that the part numbers are coded with channel number. For example, all resistors for channel 1 have the form R1xx, and all resistors of the form Rx01 serve the same purpose in their respective channels. Not doing this leads to madness. > DxDatabook also interfaces to your corporate parts > database and you can link a datasheet to the part so you can have the > datasheet at the click of a mouse. If your corporate parts database is publicly documented, we can arrange to use it. gEDA tools don't keep secrets. - Larry ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
DJ Delorie wrote: > They all look like "max bounds" and probably should use the pcb's > actual width and height instead. > > A 32-bit signed integer type is what limits you to 1/4 mile (er, 0.338 > miles). If you need more than 0.338 miles on a side, yeah, you can > compile with long or "long long" but you'd have to go through and find > all the temps that are "int" and change them to "LocationType". ...not to mention needing to find a fab house to build it! ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Cape Coral, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
> We only need about 18 inches X 18 inches and up to 24 layers. How > about ground planes? Does it also handle split ground planes? Yup, what you do is draw the separate polygons, one for each half. They can overlap if you want, or use traces to connect them. > That is where, for example, you may have 32-channels of identical > cicuitry and you do a schematic of one channel, then on the upper level, > you use a symbol to represent that schematic 32 times. I've got a project with eight I/O filters, I plan on using a perl script (or refdes_renum if it does what I want) to simple create sheets 2..N from sheet 1. Of course, someone might say that gschem supports heirarchies now, I know they've been discussed in the past. > The purpose of a DxDatabook application is to prevent "Heavy" > symbols. . . . Again, read the heavy vs light debate. I've proposed something like what you describe, but nobody has volunteered to write it. Maybe you could? There's also gattrib, which brings up your schematic's symbols in a spreadsheet and lets you edit all the attributes at once. > I have a 64-bit system, a desktop, but my laptop is a 32-bit. Either works. > Cross-probing, if you don't know, is where you have both the schematic > and layout open . . . Dan is working on this. PCB has the socket support, it's a matter of stitching the GUI bits together. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
They all look like "max bounds" and probably should use the pcb's actual width and height instead. A 32-bit signed integer type is what limits you to 1/4 mile (er, 0.338 miles). If you need more than 0.338 miles on a side, yeah, you can compile with long or "long long" but you'd have to go through and find all the temps that are "int" and change them to "LocationType". ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
On Wed, 2006-07-19 at 16:49 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: > > How large a pcb layout can PCB handle? > > About a quarter of a mile per side. Yes, I've done this, my house > looks *really* small on that scale. > > > That is, how many layers, > > If you don't mind editing one line of a .h file, as many as your > computer can handle. By default, 16. I've tested up to 53. > > > how many pads and components? > > Limited only by your computer's RAM. > > > That is, how many pages, > > Each page is an individual file, so that depends on how big your disk > array is. On average, a rough estimate is 100,000 per gigabyte. > > > what sheet size. > > Most of us work with C or D sheets, scaled down to A prints. However, > there's no arbitrary limit - I think we're limited to 2 million inches > per side on 32-bit hosts. > > > Is there a program available like the DxDatabook from Mentor > > DxDesigner where you can have your inventory of parts with part > > number, symbol, footprint already assigned and you can select the > > part and "place" the symbol on the schematic along with its > > attributes? > > Search the mail archives for the "light vs heavy symbol" debate. The > current library is light symbols, but you can always create your own > modified library with heavy symbols. We only need about 18 inches X 18 inches and up to 24 layers. How about ground planes? Does it also handle split ground planes? What about the schematic capture, does it do hierarchial schematics? That is where, for example, you may have 32-channels of identical cicuitry and you do a schematic of one channel, then on the upper level, you use a symbol to represent that schematic 32 times. The purpose of a DxDatabook application is to prevent "Heavy" symbols. you can just use the "lingt" symbol and annotate it as you place it on the schematic. DxDatabook also interfaces to your corporate parts database and you can link a datasheet to the part so you can have the datasheet at the click of a mouse. Makes BOM creation a snap. For instance, a resistor symbol can have many thousands of part numbers and many footprints associated with just one symbol. The DxDatabook also shows number in stock and datasheet, etc. You really want to have your BOM ready at the time you go to layout so purchasing and order any long lead parts and have them available when the board is ready for assy. The DxDatabook application drastically simplifies and speeds up the process. I wonder if something like OpenOffice.org Base or something along those lines could be interfaced to the schematic so do this? I have a 64-bit system, a desktop, but my laptop is a 32-bit. Also, can you do cross-probing between the schematic and layout? Cross-probing, if you don't know, is where you have both the schematic and layout open on the screen and they are linked so if you highlight a net or component on the schemtic, it is highlighted in the layout and vise versa. A fantastic tool when you are troubleshooting dense boards, especially prototypes. Art ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 05:02:03PM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: > > > Just for the fun of it, I just tried to set a huge board size. > > I got bumped back to 30 inches on a side. This is from the > > Preferences/Sizes GUI in CVS PCB-HID-gtk. > > Try the lesstif HID. It doesn't have any of the arbitrary (read > "backwards compatible") limits that the Gtk HID places on board specs. So what am I to make of #define MAX_COORD 300 /* coordinate limits */ in globalconst.h? It is used 50 times in pcb core, and 3 times in the gtk HID. This is, of course, 30 inches expressed in pcb internal units. I have no doubt this number can be adjusted to a much larger value. Hmmm, does PCB use int or long for coordinates? In global.h I find typedef int LocationType; so a 64-bit machine won't help here. I just tried building with this (and BDimension) set to long (64-bits). Other than a bunch of format string mismatches, it didn't look too bad compiling. It even ran and let me play with a board layout. Finally, I don't know of any practical board designs larger than a typical 22x18 inch fab house panel. So 30 inches is actually a sensible limit for most people. - Larry ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
> Just for the fun of it, I just tried to set a huge board size. > I got bumped back to 30 inches on a side. This is from the > Preferences/Sizes GUI in CVS PCB-HID-gtk. > > I believe you in theory, but something artificially reduces the range. > Two minutes grepping around in the source tree didn't find it. Try the lesstif HID. It doesn't have any of the arbitrary (read "backwards compatible") limits that the Gtk HID places on board specs. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 04:49:14PM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: > > How large a pcb layout can PCB handle? > About a quarter of a mile per side. Yes, I've done this, my house > looks *really* small on that scale. Just for the fun of it, I just tried to set a huge board size. I got bumped back to 30 inches on a side. This is from the Preferences/Sizes GUI in CVS PCB-HID-gtk. I believe you in theory, but something artificially reduces the range. Two minutes grepping around in the source tree didn't find it. > Most of us work with C or D sheets, scaled down to A prints. However, > there's no arbitrary limit - I think we're limited to 2 million inches > per side on 32-bit hosts. If you're serious about big designs, you'll use a 64-bit computer anyway. The gEDA programs are widely used and well debugged in a 64-bit environment. - Larry ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Specifications
> How large a pcb layout can PCB handle? About a quarter of a mile per side. Yes, I've done this, my house looks *really* small on that scale. > That is, how many layers, If you don't mind editing one line of a .h file, as many as your computer can handle. By default, 16. I've tested up to 53. > how many pads and components? Limited only by your computer's RAM. > That is, how many pages, Each page is an individual file, so that depends on how big your disk array is. On average, a rough estimate is 100,000 per gigabyte. > what sheet size. Most of us work with C or D sheets, scaled down to A prints. However, there's no arbitrary limit - I think we're limited to 2 million inches per side on 32-bit hosts. > Is there a program available like the DxDatabook from Mentor > DxDesigner where you can have your inventory of parts with part > number, symbol, footprint already assigned and you can select the > part and "place" the symbol on the schematic along with its > attributes? Search the mail archives for the "light vs heavy symbol" debate. The current library is light symbols, but you can always create your own modified library with heavy symbols. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Specifications
I have not found any specifications to any of the gEDA programs. Could some one point me to them or answer the following questions? How large a pcb layout can PCB handle? That is, how many layers, what board size, how many pads and components? How large a schematic can the schematic capture handle?, That is, how many pages, what sheet size. Does that schematic handle hierarchial schematics? Is there a program available like the DxDatabook from Mentor DxDesigner where you can have your inventory of parts with part number, symbol, footprint already assigned and you can select the part and "place" the symbol on the schematic along with its attributes? Art ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
