Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
Peter - On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 12:55:31PM +0100, Peter Clifton wrote: > On Tue, 2011-04-19 at 21:34 -0700, Larry Doolittle wrote: > > My RF gear makes a plausible "vector oscilloscope" > Sounds awesome, can you post some pictures - screen-shots and HW? I've plugged the HW here before: http://recycle.lbl.gov/llrf4/ Here's a screenshot of a GUI based on fltk+opengl: http://recycle.lbl.gov/~ldoolitt/llrf/rgui_image.jpg Sorry the trace doesn't show anything interesting, that's just the white noise background. - Larry ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
On Tue, 2011-04-19 at 21:34 -0700, Larry Doolittle wrote: > My RF gear makes a plausible "vector oscilloscope" (my waveforms that > are centered around a carrier get downconverted to vector baseband), > although I haven't worked on a spiffy or flexible user interface. > Multiple 3-D wire-frame traces of ~1000 points updating faster than > the eye can follow, on crappy old Intel laptop graphics chips. > I use fltk+opengl, based on the fltk cubeview demo code, processing > data brought in over USB at typically 8 Mbyte/sec. Sounds awesome, can you post some pictures - screen-shots and HW? > ser -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
Rick - On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 10:27:54PM -0400, rickman wrote: > ... Providing a real time display with a high > update rate would be a challenge for me. If that part is done, then > the first major hurtle is done. Some part of the hardware design > depends on what the software requires to facilitate the real time > data transfer. My RF gear makes a plausible "vector oscilloscope" (my waveforms that are centered around a carrier get downconverted to vector baseband), although I haven't worked on a spiffy or flexible user interface. Multiple 3-D wire-frame traces of ~1000 points updating faster than the eye can follow, on crappy old Intel laptop graphics chips. I use fltk+opengl, based on the fltk cubeview demo code, processing data brought in over USB at typically 8 Mbyte/sec. - Larry ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
On 4/19/2011 5:26 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: rickman wrote: By "suitable" I meant suitable in all ways. You'll have to test yourself. If the code is not going to be available, I guess that disqualifies it unless I want to pick it up and run with it. "G" in xmgrace is for GPL. Even if the Weizmann site were down, there would still be the Debian repository. I meant if the code is not complete I would have to do the work myself. I'm just batting around some ideas and would like to find some software to base an o'scope UI on. You mean some kind of code re-use? As opposed to code disuse? I'm not sure what you mean. As opposed to use of the application. Did I mention, there is a C api? I have been looking for a good commercial mixed mode oscilloscope/logic analyzer (...) ~300 MHz (...) Agilent (...) home brew oscopes (...) Not sure, What you are aiming at. This discussion started about a project to view the data produced by circuit simulation. You seem to be looking for something different. Yes, and I asked if the software would be suitable for a real time update for an o'scope type application. I am looking at what it would take to roll an o'scope project. I seem to find a lot of projects that have been started but not finished and others that are far below what I would like. The hardware of a good quality o'scope/logic analyzer would not be easy, but for me the software would be the hard part. Providing a real time display with a high update rate would be a challenge for me. If that part is done, then the first major hurtle is done. Some part of the hardware design depends on what the software requires to facilitate the real time data transfer. Rick ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
rickman wrote: > By "suitable" I meant suitable in all ways. You'll have to test yourself. > If the code is not going to be available, I guess that disqualifies it > unless I want to pick it up and run with it. "G" in xmgrace is for GPL. Even if the Weizmann site were down, there would still be the Debian repository. >>> I'm just batting around some ideas and would like to find some >>> software to base an o'scope UI on. >> You mean some kind of code re-use? > As opposed to code disuse? I'm not sure what you mean. As opposed to use of the application. Did I mention, there is a C api? > I have been looking for a good commercial mixed mode oscilloscope/logic > analyzer (...) ~300 MHz (...) Agilent (...) home brew oscopes (...) Not sure, What you are aiming at. This discussion started about a project to view the data produced by circuit simulation. You seem to be looking for something different. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
Hi Alex, I don't have any ideas really. I just know there are some commercial products I won't use if they are given to me... one was and I'm returning it. The basic o'scope control panel works pretty well actually. I'm not crazy about emulating round knobs, but the controls do what the user needs done mostly in an intuitive way. But that may be outside the scope of a waveform viewer. Control of the scope is not the same as viewing the waveform. I'm not sure I really have the time right now to think about this. If I spend some time with this I'll drop you a note. Rick On 4/17/2011 5:39 PM, A.Burinskiy wrote: Rick, I wrote ngscope to suit analog designer need, including update of plots on fly. So far it is possible to do through menu. If you have any interface in mind I may easy include it into my code. Additional features includes - choose any X-axis, equation driven interface, support for user defined functions library. I'm working on it adding new features. If you have some particular in mind - let me know please. Thanks, Alex. On 04/17/2011 01:15 PM, rickman wrote: On 4/4/2011 11:44 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: A.Burinskiy wrote: I did not saw satisfactory analog viewer for ngspice. Could you please send me a link or project name? Over the years several waveform projects have been tossed around on this list: gwavehttp://gwave.sourceforge.net/ gtkwave http://gtkwave.sourceforge.net/ KJWaves http://sourceforge.net/projects/kjwaves/ dataplot http://www.h-renrew.de/h/dataplot/dataplot.html When I had the need for an interactive waveform viewer that could also be driven by an application, I had good success with xmgrace http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/Grace/ It is fully scriptable and can produce publication quality plots, too. Would any of these be suitable for a real time update of an o'scope display? I'm just batting around some ideas and would like to find some software to base an o'scope UI on. Rick ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
On 4/17/2011 5:00 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: rickman wrote: When I had the need for an interactive waveform viewer that could also be driven by an application, I had good success with xmgrace http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/Grace/ It is fully scriptable and can produce publication quality plots, too. Would any of these be suitable for a real time update of an o'scope display? This is what I meant by the preceding comment: There is an api to xmgrace that allows any application written in C to feed values to the GUI and make it update the graphs. So the GUI can show the data while they pour in. The user still has full GUI control over zoom, pan and the various aspects of graph scaling. Graphs can be linear, log scale, rectangular, or polar. Data points can be all kinds of shapes, with or without error margins. No 3D-imaging, though. Be aware, that there is a down side: The project has grind to a virtual stand still since a few years now. The proposed, complete rewrite that would be grace6 looks like it will never be finished. By "suitable" I meant suitable in all ways. I can only assume that this code would run fast enough to work well. But the idea sounds right. Can it display analog data as well as logic data? What about the others? If the code is not going to be available, I guess that disqualifies it unless I want to pick it up and run with it. I'm just batting around some ideas and would like to find some software to base an o'scope UI on. You mean some kind of code re-use? As opposed to code disuse? I'm not sure what you mean. I have been looking for a good commercial mixed mode oscilloscope/logic analyzer and have not found one that has a fast analog front end (meaning ~300 MHz bandwidth), at least 16 bits of digital input and is well under a kilobuck (USD). Most of what I've found are not as functional as I would like or are the same price as a self contained unit or both. Agilent has one but I think they are asking around $2,000 and it has some short comings that I bet their stand alone units don't have. The low cost units all seem to fall very short in the analog input department. I guess I never realized that an oscope analog front end is expensive to build. I figured the price had more to do with the marketing, development and other costs. The small companies don't have many of those costs and I figured they could produce something fairly good at a fraction of the price. They seem to provide up to around 100 MHz bandwidth ok for a few hundred USD, but faster than that and the price jumps up really fast. Maybe it is a marketing issue and there just aren't enough sales of the faster units to amortize the costs. All that aside, I was looking at some of the home brew oscopes and there are more than one project that has potential. I was thinking of piggybacking off of what ever I could find to see what could be produced. The software seems to be one of the weak points and likely one of the most important points at the same time. A poor UI will make a great hardware design pretty worthless, so it is just as important. Rick ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 04:15:16PM -0400, rickman wrote: > On 4/4/2011 11:44 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: >> A.Burinskiy wrote: >> >>> I did not saw satisfactory analog viewer for ngspice. Could you please >>> send me a link or project name? >> Over the years several waveform projects have been tossed around >> on this list: >> >> gwavehttp://gwave.sourceforge.net/ >> gtkwave http://gtkwave.sourceforge.net/ >> KJWaves http://sourceforge.net/projects/kjwaves/ >> dataplot http://www.h-renrew.de/h/dataplot/dataplot.html >> >> When I had the need for an interactive waveform viewer that could >> also be driven by an application, I had good success with >> xmgrace http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/Grace/ >> It is fully scriptable and can produce publication quality plots, >> too. > > Would any of these be suitable for a real time update of an o'scope > display? I'm just batting around some ideas and would like to find some > software to base an o'scope UI on. I would also check out frtplot for that. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
Bert Timmerman wrote: > ftp://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/pub/grace/src/devel/gracegtk-0.3.1_2011_03_ > 29_10h08.tgz > > Has a date: 03/29/2011 09:20 2,554,540 > gracegtk-0.3.1_2011_03_29_10h08.tgz > > Seems to need 2.12 < gtk <2.16 so YMMV This is the stalled project of a rewrite, aka grace6. The rewrite had not been progressed to include the C library. So it would not be suitable to the purpose of this thread, anyway. The last stable release of grace is version 5.1.22. It depends on motif or lesstif with version >= 0.94 ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
Rick, I wrote ngscope to suit analog designer need, including update of plots on fly. So far it is possible to do through menu. If you have any interface in mind I may easy include it into my code. Additional features includes - choose any X-axis, equation driven interface, support for user defined functions library. I'm working on it adding new features. If you have some particular in mind - let me know please. Thanks, Alex. On 04/17/2011 01:15 PM, rickman wrote: On 4/4/2011 11:44 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: A.Burinskiy wrote: I did not saw satisfactory analog viewer for ngspice. Could you please send me a link or project name? Over the years several waveform projects have been tossed around on this list: gwavehttp://gwave.sourceforge.net/ gtkwave http://gtkwave.sourceforge.net/ KJWaves http://sourceforge.net/projects/kjwaves/ dataplot http://www.h-renrew.de/h/dataplot/dataplot.html When I had the need for an interactive waveform viewer that could also be driven by an application, I had good success with xmgrace http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/Grace/ It is fully scriptable and can produce publication quality plots, too. Would any of these be suitable for a real time update of an o'scope display? I'm just batting around some ideas and would like to find some software to base an o'scope UI on. Rick ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- Alexander Burinskiy IC design San Jose, CA, 95129 (408)230-3458 (cell) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
-Original Message- > From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org > [mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of > Kai-Martin Knaak > Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 11:00 PM > To: geda-u...@seul.org > Subject: Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope > > rickman wrote: > > >> When I had the need for an interactive waveform viewer that could > >> also be driven by an application, I had good success with > >> xmgrace http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/Grace/ > >> It is fully scriptable and can produce publication quality plots, > >> too. > > > > Would any of these be suitable for a real time update of an o'scope > > display? > > This is what I meant by the preceding comment: There is an > api to xmgrace that allows any application written in C to > feed values to the GUI and make it update the graphs. So the > GUI can show the data while they pour in. The user still has > full GUI control over zoom, pan and the various aspects of > graph scaling. Graphs can be linear, log scale, rectangular, > or polar. Data points can be all kinds of shapes, with or > without error margins. No 3D-imaging, though. > > Be aware, that there is a down side: The project has grind to > a virtual stand still since a few years now. The proposed, > complete rewrite that would be grace6 looks like it will > never be finished. > > > > I'm just batting around some ideas and would like to find some > > software to base an o'scope UI on. > > You mean some kind of code re-use? > > ---<)kaimartin(>--- > -- > Kai-Martin Knaak > Email: k...@familieknaak.de > Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: > http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 > > > Hmm, ftp://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/pub/grace/src/devel/gracegtk-0.3.1_2011_03_ 29_10h08.tgz Has a date: 03/29/2011 09:20 2,554,540 gracegtk-0.3.1_2011_03_29_10h08.tgz Seems to need 2.12 < gtk <2.16 so YMMV Kind regards, Bert Timmerman. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
rickman wrote: >> When I had the need for an interactive waveform viewer that could >> also be driven by an application, I had good success with >> xmgrace http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/Grace/ >> It is fully scriptable and can produce publication quality plots, >> too. > > Would any of these be suitable for a real time update of an o'scope > display? This is what I meant by the preceding comment: There is an api to xmgrace that allows any application written in C to feed values to the GUI and make it update the graphs. So the GUI can show the data while they pour in. The user still has full GUI control over zoom, pan and the various aspects of graph scaling. Graphs can be linear, log scale, rectangular, or polar. Data points can be all kinds of shapes, with or without error margins. No 3D-imaging, though. Be aware, that there is a down side: The project has grind to a virtual stand still since a few years now. The proposed, complete rewrite that would be grace6 looks like it will never be finished. > I'm just batting around some ideas and would like to find some > software to base an o'scope UI on. You mean some kind of code re-use? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
On 4/4/2011 11:44 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: A.Burinskiy wrote: I did not saw satisfactory analog viewer for ngspice. Could you please send me a link or project name? Over the years several waveform projects have been tossed around on this list: gwavehttp://gwave.sourceforge.net/ gtkwave http://gtkwave.sourceforge.net/ KJWaves http://sourceforge.net/projects/kjwaves/ dataplot http://www.h-renrew.de/h/dataplot/dataplot.html When I had the need for an interactive waveform viewer that could also be driven by an application, I had good success with xmgrace http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/Grace/ It is fully scriptable and can produce publication quality plots, too. Would any of these be suitable for a real time update of an o'scope display? I'm just batting around some ideas and would like to find some software to base an o'scope UI on. Rick ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
2011/4/7 Rubén Gómez Antolí : > Hi: > > El 06/04/11 16:42, John Doty escribió: >> >> On Apr 6, 2011, at 8:26 AM, Dave McGuire wrote: >> >>> On 4/6/11 3:01 AM, Stephan Boettcher wrote: > > Specifically, the suite misses a way for fast turnaround of schematic > modification, simulation and display. make >>> >>> Exactly. >> >> Especially for simulation, where you very often aren't just running the >> simulator itself. >> >> You may need to process netlists with spicepp.pl or some other script, to >> fix SPICE dialect dependencies or other problems. >> >> You may need to generate stimulus files or command files. >> >> You may need to update subcircuit libraries before simulating. >> >> You may need to postprocess the simulation data to extract the information >> you seek. >> >> The simulation may be part of some larger process. For example the final >> product may be a report containing plots or other data generated from >> simulations. >> >> This is one place where gEDA's modular toolkit approach really shines. It >> saves me an enormous amount of time relative to the more integrated tools I >> once used. One really nice thing about makefiles is that while I often >> forget how to make some data product, the makefile doesn't. > > You are right but, what about the users? > eh, I think spice is always going to be one of those things that takes some learning. An IBIS tool would be a much better match for GUI integration. For me, the most non-intuitive things were the naming of the '0' net and the use of the tran command in ngspice, past that, everything was pretty intuitive. One of the problems is the howto is more of a manual: http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:csygas A tutorial with an example design would be of enormous help. A nice example might be an unterminated vs terminated transmission line. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
On Apr 7, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Rubén Gómez Antolí wrote: > Hi: > > El 06/04/11 16:42, John Doty escribió: >> >> This is one place where gEDA's modular toolkit approach really shines. It >> saves me an enormous amount of time relative to the more integrated tools I >> once used. One really nice thing about makefiles is that while I often >> forget how to make some data product, the makefile doesn't. > > You are right but, what about the users? I *am* a user. gEDA is software that caters to the needs of users. But it's not for passive *consumers* of software. There are plenty of other tools for them. I sincerely hope that gEDA's power and productivity are never abridged to make it more palatable to consumers. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
Hi: El 06/04/11 16:42, John Doty escribió: On Apr 6, 2011, at 8:26 AM, Dave McGuire wrote: On 4/6/11 3:01 AM, Stephan Boettcher wrote: Specifically, the suite misses a way for fast turnaround of schematic modification, simulation and display. make Exactly. Especially for simulation, where you very often aren't just running the simulator itself. You may need to process netlists with spicepp.pl or some other script, to fix SPICE dialect dependencies or other problems. You may need to generate stimulus files or command files. You may need to update subcircuit libraries before simulating. You may need to postprocess the simulation data to extract the information you seek. The simulation may be part of some larger process. For example the final product may be a report containing plots or other data generated from simulations. This is one place where gEDA's modular toolkit approach really shines. It saves me an enormous amount of time relative to the more integrated tools I once used. One really nice thing about makefiles is that while I often forget how to make some data product, the makefile doesn't. You are right but, what about the users? Best regards. Salud y Revolución. Lobo. -- Libertad es poder elegir en cualquier momento. Ahora yo elijo GNU/Linux, para no atar mis manos con las cadenas del soft propietario. - Desde El Ejido, en Almería, usuario registrado Linux #294013 http://www.counter.li.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
On Apr 6, 2011, at 8:26 AM, Dave McGuire wrote: > On 4/6/11 3:01 AM, Stephan Boettcher wrote: >>> Specifically, the suite misses a way for fast turnaround of schematic >>> modification, simulation and display. >> >> make > > Exactly. Especially for simulation, where you very often aren't just running the simulator itself. You may need to process netlists with spicepp.pl or some other script, to fix SPICE dialect dependencies or other problems. You may need to generate stimulus files or command files. You may need to update subcircuit libraries before simulating. You may need to postprocess the simulation data to extract the information you seek. The simulation may be part of some larger process. For example the final product may be a report containing plots or other data generated from simulations. This is one place where gEDA's modular toolkit approach really shines. It saves me an enormous amount of time relative to the more integrated tools I once used. One really nice thing about makefiles is that while I often forget how to make some data product, the makefile doesn't. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
On 4/6/11 3:01 AM, Stephan Boettcher wrote: Specifically, the suite misses a way for fast turnaround of schematic modification, simulation and display. make Exactly. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
Kai-Martin Knaak writes: > Specifically, the suite misses a way for fast turnaround of schematic > modification, simulation and display. make -- Stephan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
I just want to throw my opinion out there. I have been using geda (gschem and pcb) for years and I have yet to find a satisfactory waveform viewer, simulation gui, and netlister. Kudos to someone who wants try to make a legitimate waveform viewer, the open source EDA community needs one. I for one use gnuplot but would like something much more interactive than that in the future. On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Andrzej wrote: > >> and >> that I don't consider ngscope "yet another waveform viewer". > > I didn't want to discourage anybody from anything. It was just the > feeling that the bottle neck with simulation in the context of geda > is somewhere else. Specifically, the suite misses a way for fast > turnaround of schematic modification, simulation and display. > The second and perhaps even more important bottle neck are of > course the models, or rather the lack of them. > > ---<)kaimartin(>--- > -- > Kai-Martin Knaak > Email: k...@familieknaak.de > Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: > http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 > > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
Andrzej wrote: > and > that I don't consider ngscope "yet another waveform viewer". I didn't want to discourage anybody from anything. It was just the feeling that the bottle neck with simulation in the context of geda is somewhere else. Specifically, the suite misses a way for fast turnaround of schematic modification, simulation and display. The second and perhaps even more important bottle neck are of course the models, or rather the lack of them. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
Hi Andrzej, Thank you very much for the warm words. If you do not mind, could you please send me result of ngscope -v It should tell wxWidget version against which it was compiled. Also, could you please send me what exactly exception was generated and what file you did use as a test. Thanks a lot, Alex. On 04/04/2011 10:19 PM, Andrzej wrote: Alex, I just wanted to say that I'm watching your project with interest and that I don't consider ngscope "yet another waveform viewer". If you could bring it to a usable state it would be very useful tool for my own work. I've tried it but it throws an exception when loading simulation results (using your own sample data) and then fails to do anything as the signal list is empty. Tested on Ubuntu 11.4 beta. I'm also following the development of oscopy, although it seems to focus more on data post-processing rather than interactive work with simulation results (still, it is pretty good, if it only supported more input formats). On these rare occasions when I tried OS simulators I was usually viewing the results in a spice3 built-in viewer or gwave. Neither of them really had features I'd expect from a good waveform viewer. IMHO writing a good waveform viewer is a great thing to do, as it is an easiest way of getting a foothold in the real-world workflows. Schematic/PCB/layout editors suffer from severe vendor lock-in, professional grade simulators or verification tools are niche and difficult to implement. In comparison, waveform viewers are relatively easy and are being used all the time by almost every engineer working in the field. Thanks, Andrzej On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 8:45 PM, A.Burinskiy wrote: Hi Kaimartin, I did not saw satisfactory analog viewer for ngspice. Could you please send me a link or project name? My goal was to have viewer for ngspice, which I use for IC design, with all the specific requirements for this field. Thus I suit ngsope for this - analyzes ngspice waveforms, noise plots, biasing observation, stability analyzes (Bode plots), transients etc. I do not know any viewer with such capabilities in OSS. Integration of simulator and gschem - that is gschem developers business, but I do not think it will ever happened due to obvious reason - there is no in OSS standard simulator which everyone uses. I prefer ngspice - the most powerful simulator in OSS. Second reason - integration by itself useless, to make it powerful models should be developed for every component used. Another reason - UNIX is terminal driven thing, with all the consequences. From my practice - GUI is just a candy - too much sugar and no health, it significantly limits tool capability By the way, I remember sourceforge has at list one GUI with interface to simulator. I try this long time ago. Useless. Thanks, Alex. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
Alex, I just wanted to say that I'm watching your project with interest and that I don't consider ngscope "yet another waveform viewer". If you could bring it to a usable state it would be very useful tool for my own work. I've tried it but it throws an exception when loading simulation results (using your own sample data) and then fails to do anything as the signal list is empty. Tested on Ubuntu 11.4 beta. I'm also following the development of oscopy, although it seems to focus more on data post-processing rather than interactive work with simulation results (still, it is pretty good, if it only supported more input formats). On these rare occasions when I tried OS simulators I was usually viewing the results in a spice3 built-in viewer or gwave. Neither of them really had features I'd expect from a good waveform viewer. IMHO writing a good waveform viewer is a great thing to do, as it is an easiest way of getting a foothold in the real-world workflows. Schematic/PCB/layout editors suffer from severe vendor lock-in, professional grade simulators or verification tools are niche and difficult to implement. In comparison, waveform viewers are relatively easy and are being used all the time by almost every engineer working in the field. Thanks, Andrzej On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 8:45 PM, A.Burinskiy wrote: > Hi Kaimartin, > > I did not saw satisfactory analog viewer for ngspice. Could you please send > me a link or project name? My goal was to have viewer for ngspice, which I > use for IC design, with all the specific requirements for this field. Thus I > suit ngsope for this - analyzes ngspice waveforms, noise plots, biasing > observation, stability analyzes (Bode plots), transients etc. I do not know > any viewer with such capabilities in OSS. > > Integration of simulator and gschem - that is gschem developers business, > but I do not think it will ever happened due to obvious reason - there is no > in OSS standard simulator which everyone uses. I prefer ngspice - the most > powerful simulator in OSS. Second reason - integration by itself useless, to > make it powerful models should be developed for every component used. > Another reason - UNIX is terminal driven thing, with all the consequences. > From my practice - GUI is just a candy - too much sugar and no health, it > significantly limits tool capability By the way, I remember sourceforge > has at list one GUI with interface to simulator. I try this long time ago. > Useless. > > Thanks, > Alex. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
A.Burinskiy wrote: > I did not saw satisfactory analog viewer for ngspice. Could you please > send me a link or project name? Over the years several waveform projects have been tossed around on this list: gwavehttp://gwave.sourceforge.net/ gtkwave http://gtkwave.sourceforge.net/ KJWaves http://sourceforge.net/projects/kjwaves/ dataplot http://www.h-renrew.de/h/dataplot/dataplot.html When I had the need for an interactive waveform viewer that could also be driven by an application, I had good success with xmgrace http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/Grace/ It is fully scriptable and can produce publication quality plots, too. These days, I might opt for gnuplot, though. xmgrace seems to be abandoned by the developers. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
> Integration of simulator and gschem - that is gschem developers > business, but I do not think it will ever happened due to obvious reason > - there is no in OSS standard simulator which everyone uses. I prefer Just my 2 eurocents of free speech and whine... There could be little light in the end of tunnel if there was one simulator supported. And supporting more simulators it should be easy if the support mechanism was ...um... well usable and congurable. Also there could be better support gnetlist which would tell something like "You have put superconductor and ultimate insulator parallel. I can divide by zero but adding infinty and almost zero gives interesting results which you propably don't want." Like CLang compiler in programming world. > GUI is just a candy - too much sugar and no health, it significantly limits > tool > capability By the way, I remember sourceforge has at list one GUI > with interface to simulator. I try this long time ago. Useless. Partially true. Sometimes it is easier to manage project in xgschem2pcb than in terminal. Also GSpiceGUI would be good tool if it helped during simulation. For me at least gschem, gnetlist and ngspice gave too steep learning curve and I gave up. Link to good and thorough tutorial with explanations what is simulated would be very nice. What I really want to do is put AVR simulator and SPICE to work together. So when Ihave badly designed power supply, source with MCU LEDs and run another in PWM mode I can see how I wrongly loaded the power supply and what happens then with currents. Someone else wants to simulate completely different things. But that is something far away. Also distributed simualtions would be awesome. However I think signal analysis doesn't work in parallel very well. But before there is ultimate simulation system which can simulate everything we want I believe enhancing gnetlist would be the best way and adding some simulation rule checking. Best regards, Hannu Vuolasaho > > Thanks, > Alex. > > On 04/04/2011 03:04 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > > A.Burinskiy wrote: > > > >> Due to name conflict I rename program zview to ngscope, did minor > >> corrections and submit it to sourceforge again. > > Just curious: Why are there so many projects for viewers of simulation > > data? I'd personally see the more immediate need in a better integration > > of simulation with the gschem GUI. > > > > ---<)kaimartin(>--- > > > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
Hi Kaimartin, I did not saw satisfactory analog viewer for ngspice. Could you please send me a link or project name? My goal was to have viewer for ngspice, which I use for IC design, with all the specific requirements for this field. Thus I suit ngsope for this - analyzes ngspice waveforms, noise plots, biasing observation, stability analyzes (Bode plots), transients etc. I do not know any viewer with such capabilities in OSS. Integration of simulator and gschem - that is gschem developers business, but I do not think it will ever happened due to obvious reason - there is no in OSS standard simulator which everyone uses. I prefer ngspice - the most powerful simulator in OSS. Second reason - integration by itself useless, to make it powerful models should be developed for every component used. Another reason - UNIX is terminal driven thing, with all the consequences. From my practice - GUI is just a candy - too much sugar and no health, it significantly limits tool capability By the way, I remember sourceforge has at list one GUI with interface to simulator. I try this long time ago. Useless. Thanks, Alex. On 04/04/2011 03:04 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: A.Burinskiy wrote: Due to name conflict I rename program zview to ngscope, did minor corrections and submit it to sourceforge again. Just curious: Why are there so many projects for viewers of simulation data? I'd personally see the more immediate need in a better integration of simulation with the gschem GUI. ---<)kaimartin(>--- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
A.Burinskiy wrote: > Due to name conflict I rename program zview to ngscope, did minor > corrections and submit it to sourceforge again. Just curious: Why are there so many projects for viewers of simulation data? I'd personally see the more immediate need in a better integration of simulation with the gschem GUI. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmk&op=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: zview/ngscope
Hello, Due to name conflict I rename program zview to ngscope, did minor corrections and submit it to sourceforge again. Thanks, Alex. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
