Re: [gentoo-user] OT: tabs in vi[m]
On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 09:07:32PM -0400, Mike Principito wrote: > This is a bit off topic, but I'm curious if anyone knows how to set up a > tab to be 3 spaces instead of a tab character in vim. I'm assuming I'd > have to add something to my .vimrc, but I don't know what. Any help would > be appreciated. Well, the answer is ":set tabstop=8", but I'd recommend ":set shiftwidth=3" and leaving tabs hard set to 8 (then anyone viewing your file will still see your desired indentation). Just use ^T and ^D in insert mode to tab/backtab, >> and << to indent/un-indent in command mode. Regards, -- Rex -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] top-posting -vs- bottom posting (was: Threaded...)
On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 07:28:16AM +0800, William Kenworthy wrote: > This comes up regularly, and if memory serves me correctly, top posting > is actually the more correct method by history, but not by much Dunno about your memory, but "bottom posting" has been netiquette since DARPAnet and UUCP days. As far as I know "top posting" only became popular with the advent of Outlook as an email client (possibly other PC mail clients as well). Evolution has all the features of Outlook, but I'd be hard pressed to call "top posting" a feature I'd want anyone to emulate. I believe internet Email pretty much started in the Multics/Unix/VMS world (DARPA and USENET). I think even IBM PROFS and other mainframe mail systems also held to the "quoted text, then reply" model (which fits nicely with the left-to-right, top-to-bottom model of English text parsing that human readers have become accustomed to over the centuries). The "more correct method by history" argument just doesn't hold water. > It can create an almost religious argument - live and let live please! Says the person redirecting "bottom posting" to /dev/null? It's simply good manners to edit out unrelated text that you are quoting in a reply -- whether "top posting" OR "bottom posting". USENET news posting tools used to very sensibly reject posts with too much quoted text relative to new content (good ones still do for that matter). In my experience it is EXTREMELY rare to find a "top poster" that deletes ANY of the quoted text following their new material -- each post in a thread getting successively longer and longer. I've never seen a long thread that hasn't had multiple points and counterpoints -- quoting everything every time is ridiculous in an archived mailing list (and believe me, EVERY mailing list is archived by at least one member). So if anyone insists on "top posting" then fine. Just please, PLEASE only include the quoted text that is really necessary for context (and only that text!). Kudos for deleting some of the quoted text in your message. Not to nit-pick, but your post might have provided better context if you'd quoted just Collins Richey's text and deleted everything else (instead of the other way around). As it is the quoted text in your message was probably not read by anybody -- why include unnecessary quoted text at all? Regards, -- Rex -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Threaded email client for gentoo-user?
On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 06:57:14AM -0600, Mike Roest wrote: > Yes but mutt doesn't cache headers for IMAP accounts so if you plan to > leave the list messages in the account (as I do my gentoo-user account > has 26000 messages in it) mutt takes inordinate amounts of time to > startup as it has to go and fetch the headers everytime. If it had > header caching for imap accounts it would be much more viable as a imap > reader. IMAP is the one thing that pine does better than mutt. It's not just header cacheing, imho: it's also being smarter with the IMAP protocol. If you only need the last 24 headers to draw the folder list, why ask for all 26,000? Get the 24 you need to draw the screen then collect the remainder in a background thread while the user is staring at his sceen reading mail. Brendan Cully has done yeoman's service with IMAP support in mutt -- apparently these features aren't trivial to add. Wish my coding skills were better :-) Regards, -- Rex -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Technicolor Logfiles
On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 09:05:34AM +0200, Einar S. Ids? wrote: > On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:01:15 +1200 > Tom Eastman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I like to have a ' tail -f /var/log/everything/current' running on a > > spare terminal, but what would be *really* neat is if I had a program > > that would re-colour the output so that messages of interest to me > > would stand out. > > $ emerge -s tail > ...snip... > * app-misc/colortail > Latest version available: 0.3.0-r3 There is also "swatch" (also in portage). Regards, -- Rex -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Threaded email client for gentoo-user?
On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 02:02:15AM -0400, Owen Gunden wrote:
> I /insist/ that they be stored in a sensible way in the
> filesystem for mutt users, and my definition of sensible doesn't include
> Courier's dot-heirarchy maildirs :).
Hmmm...
You might want to at least try the following in your ~/.muttrc before
you blow away courier-imap:
set spoolfile=imap://localhost/INBOX
set folder=imap://localhost/INBOX
set imap_user=owen # or whatever
mailboxes =folder1 =folder2
You might even prefer this to accessing the maildirs directly (imap
support in mutt-1.5.4i is fast enough for me as long as you're accessing
a fast IMAP server over the loopback interface -- it's accessing slow
IMAP servers over the internet that's unbearable).
I've actually started running this way at home so I don't have to
remember to prefix my folders with "." before tab-completing them in
mutt.
UW has gone to great pains to be as compatible as possible but as I
said it has problems scaling. UW is the canonical reference platform,
but cyrus, courier, et al are pretty feature rich and fast. UW stores
things in old-style mbox files ("From " separated mail in a single file
-- but with an adjunct database of indexes into the file to speed things
up, IIRC).
I used to /insist/ that everything went in /etc/rc.local but all-in-all
I'm much happier doing things the gentoo way. :-)
You might decide the cyrus/courier way is a little more sensible than
you thought (especially when you start adding users to your server).
As far as I know, UW doesn't support maildir at all -- just the "folders
at the same level level" rather than the "folders below INBOX" abstraction.
You can go back to UW and IMP, but I think you're going to go back to
mbox in the bargain.
It's not that hard to get used to. Honest. :-)
Regards,
--
Rex
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Threaded email client for gentoo-user?
On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 01:31:51AM -0400, Owen Gunden wrote: > Thank you ever so much for the explanation! Your welcome. I used to work for Mirapoint explaining IMAP for a living :-) > I was already suspicious that UW-IMAP could do what I wanted it to do, and > now I'm even more suspicious that it will at least come close. UW is excellent for home use, but it has scaling/performance issues for heavy use. > Since all I really want is webmail + mutt, maybe what I need is a webmail > client that works directly with the maildirs. I wonder if such a client > exists... If you've already got Courier IMAP working, why not just install SquirrelMail and point it at your (local) IMAP server? That's exactly what I do -- works like a champ. Regards, -- Rex -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Threaded email client for gentoo-user?
On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 12:05:19AM -0400, Owen Gunden wrote: > I'm using mutt with maildirs, but I can't get courier-imap to understand my > folders because they're not named INBOX.whatever (and I don't want them to > be!). I would like them to be layed out as > > ~/Mail/INBOX/ > ~/Mail/folder1/ > ~/Mail/folder2/ > ... When worlds collide "~/Mail" implies a filesystem (and probably a Unix shell to expand the "~") but "INBOX" implies IMAP. They are two very different things. Many IMAP servers (like Courier-IMAP) happen to use a filesystem to store the mail, but this is invisible to IMAP clients. An IMAP client might ask for "INBOX" and the server may know that this happens to correspond to a maildir named "/home/owen/Mail/INBOX", but this is an artifact of the particular server (Courier). A different IMAP server might not use a filesystem at all (some IMAP implementations have used object-oriented databases as the underlying mailstore). That's just a preface, though. There are basically two "flavors" of IMAP -- UW (University of Washington -- home of Mark Crispin, the author of RFC2060 and pretty much the father of IMAP) and Cyrus (from Carnegie Mellon University). Courier happens to be of the latter flavor. With UW flavor, the separator character between folders and mailboxes is usually a "/", and mailboxes are often kept at the top level of hierarchy: you might have mailboxes "INBOX", "sent", and "work" for example, as well as a folder name "lists" containing mailboxes for gentoo named "lists/gentoo-user" and "lists/gentoo-doc". With Cyrus flavor, the separator character is usually a ".", a mailbox itself can be a folder, and mailboxes are usually kept in a hierarchy *below* INBOX. In Cyrus (or Courier) the same mailboxes would be referred to as "INBOX", "INBOX.sent", "INBOX.work", "INBOX.lists.gentoo-user", and "INBOX.lists.gentoo-doc". Courier-IMAP, in particular, uses an extension to Dan Bernstein's "maildir" (sometimes referred to as "maildir+") that stores all subfolders as maildirs contained in one another (and always beginning with a ".". Thus when you create a new mailbox named "INBOX.foo" with your IMAP client, the Courier-IMAP server will actually create a maildir named "/home/owen/.maildir/.foo". So to make a long story short, what you are trying to accomplish is going against the grain. I don't think you can get Courier-IMAP to use ~/Mail/INBOX/ ~/Mail/folder1/ ~/Mail/folder2/ It will try to create ~/Mail/INBOX/ ~/Mail/INBOX/.folder1/ ~/Mail/INBOX/.folder2/ instead (assuming the default maildir is "~Mail/INBOX"). > P.S. I've been testing with IMAP clients squirrelmail and Mozilla mail. Pine has arguably the "best" IMAP client implementation (it was written by Mark Crispin and the UW folks using the "imap-client" library). Regards, -- Rex -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Threaded email client for gentoo-user?
On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 10:12:26PM -0400, A. Craig West wrote: > The recommended method replying is actually not strict bottom-posting. It is > EDITED bottom posting, where you only keep enough of the previous message to > keep the context obvious. One of the nicer features of mutt is its ability to toggle the display of quoted material (or simply skip past it). By default these actions are bound to the "T" and "S" keys in the pager screen. I'm constantly annoyed by mail from people that apparently can't find the delete key on their keyboard and quote all fifteen pages of text in a post they are replying to, with their three lines of actual content buried somewhere within (invariably with no surrounding whitespace whatsoever -- they can't seem to find the return key either). In mutt I just have to bounce on the "T" key to find the three lines of (usually anti-climatic) text they actually composed. Mutt also has the best threading of any mail tool I've ever used. (For that matter, it's the all around best mail tool I've ever used.) Mail is all about processing text quickly. I really hate taking my hands off the keyboard when processing text (which is why I rarely use GUI mail clients -- and refuse to use any that don't let me use vim while composing). Sadly, the IMAP support in mutt is somewhat lacking. It'll ask for header info for all umpteen bazillion messages in a folder before it presents the summary of the last 20 or so messages actually required to display the folder summary. IMAP is the ONLY thing that pine does better than mutt, IMHO. Fortunately I now maintain my own mail server and explicitly switched to courier-imap because it (only) groks maildirs. I access the maildirs directly from mutt sessions rather than using IMAP. Mutt still scans all umpteen bazillion messages in the maildir, but with reiserfs this is still reasonably quick. (Reiserfs rocks with big directories full of small files.) Even with multiple open mutt sessions and IMAP client sessions (sylpheed-claws, squirrelmail, pine whatever) reading my mail simultaneously machines from all over the internet, things don't get confused. [As long as I'm somewhere with an ssh client, I just ssh over to my server and run mutt locally -- otherwise I'll just use a browser or whatever IMAP client might be handy at the remote site.] -- Rex -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
