Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
Sorta-new-question here... my ISP is offering a wireless setup, and my mom prefers that because it will let us avoid drilling holes. The only setup I know for this is with an external router... some questions: - Are there any problems with wireless NICs and Linux? Will they be configured any differently from ordinary NICs, short of building new kernel modules? I am aware that many wireless routers have additional Ethernet ports, but I don't know exactly what I'm getting yet. - Is it possible to set up a PC as a wireless router? This is undesired, since I'll have to leave it on for the other computer to have a connection, but it might be what my ISP is offering. If so, are there any special Linux-related problems? Is the configuration any different? -- Tactless "If it wasn't for fog, the world would run at a really crappy framerate." This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your .signature. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
Ohad Lutzky wrote: I'm a total networking noob, but I'd like to set up a home network. My current PC (running Linux) is connected over ADSL using rp-pppoe. It has a printer as well, running on CUPS. My other PC, an old Packard Bell (bleh) P133 running (walking, rather) Win98. How would I set this up? The only home LAN setup I've ever seen is connecting the hub to the modem, and then connecting PCs to the hub. But my ADSL connection requires me to "log in" (rp-pppoe takes care of that). Also, will the two PCs "see" each other on a local network? Or will they have to communicate over the external network? If so, how will they be assigned different IPs? As I see it you have two more or less simple options which would serve your purpose. 1. Buy a Broadband Router, with PPPoE capabilities. (Simple) 2. Set up your Linux as a router for your LAN. To do this you might need to buy another NIC, and you need to configure Linux. (Not that simple for me since I am a n00b on linux) Option 1: Both PC's will see eachother, and will receive an IP from the router, or you could specify IP (e.g 192.168.1.xxx) Option 2. The PCs will see eachother, since the Linux box will serve as a gateway for the "walking" Packard Bell. -- Kristian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
> GXzim, I've trimmed almost 10x the size of your > reply. Could you please only > quote the relevant part of the email? Thanks. > I'm sorry manso this is how you do it. I'm learning too :) __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 10:29:08PM +0100, MAL wrote: > Ohad Lutzky wrote: > >NAT... that term is new to me, but I've seen it on VMWare. I'm guessing > >that it means Network Address Translation. I can see that the Linksys > >routers can do it. So that basically means that on the internet, only > >the router will be seen, but it'll look as if it's running an FTP > >server? And why will this have to be active FTP? If the port is > >forwarded directly, won't it work just like it used to? > >And what of port 80, and the other regular-use ports? Surely I'll want > >several machines using those at the same time... how will that work? > > Second point first... if you have several machines running a webserver > on port 80, you'll have to choose a different port on your router to map > to each. (one can use 80 of course). If you want each machine to be > visible on port 80, either get separate IPs for each machine, (more > expense/different ISP service), or combine them all into one webserver > running virtual domains. Same with all other single port protocols, > (SSH, IRC, Telnet, SMTP, etc.). FTP however, is different. Makes sense. So what I'm looking at is making it seem to the outside world like I'm running just one PC (and I certainly wouldn't have two daemons running on the same port on one PC). > Due to the age of FTP, it was designed with a different philosophy to > single port networking approaches. > When you connect to an FTP server, (on port 21 usually.. unless the > server has chosen to use a different 'control' port), you speak plain > text to it. Once you are ready to recieve a listing of files, you tell > the server your IP, and a local port you have opened for it to connect > to, (varies from connect to connect, but usually around the 32000+ > range). The FTP server then connects to that port on your machine, and > sends you data. > > This is Active mode FTP. > > Passive FTP, works in a similar way, but instead of you telling the > server where it can stick it's data, the server will tell you to connect > to it and will let you know what port. Again, this is a dynamic port > and usually a FTP server will have a specific range that it will use. That explains a lot of problems I had with my old ISPs. We didn't get external IPs back then, so we had to use passive FTP (as clients). > So, if your ftp server allows you to specify the range of ports it can > use for passive ftp, then you should be able to tell your router to > forward that range of ports to your FTP server machine, thereby enabling > passive FTP. I don't think that would be much of a problem. Worst case, I can run my machine on DMZ (de-militarized zone), so it gets all of the ports. > Hope that explains it enough for you. Sure does. You've been more helpful than an hour of TechTV! :) Thanks for putting up with me. Now I just need some cash... -- Tactless "If it wasn't for fog, the world would run at a really crappy framerate." This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your .signature. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
Ohad Lutzky wrote: NAT... that term is new to me, but I've seen it on VMWare. I'm guessing that it means Network Address Translation. I can see that the Linksys routers can do it. So that basically means that on the internet, only the router will be seen, but it'll look as if it's running an FTP server? And why will this have to be active FTP? If the port is forwarded directly, won't it work just like it used to? And what of port 80, and the other regular-use ports? Surely I'll want several machines using those at the same time... how will that work? Second point first... if you have several machines running a webserver on port 80, you'll have to choose a different port on your router to map to each. (one can use 80 of course). If you want each machine to be visible on port 80, either get separate IPs for each machine, (more expense/different ISP service), or combine them all into one webserver running virtual domains. Same with all other single port protocols, (SSH, IRC, Telnet, SMTP, etc.). FTP however, is different. Due to the age of FTP, it was designed with a different philosophy to single port networking approaches. When you connect to an FTP server, (on port 21 usually.. unless the server has chosen to use a different 'control' port), you speak plain text to it. Once you are ready to recieve a listing of files, you tell the server your IP, and a local port you have opened for it to connect to, (varies from connect to connect, but usually around the 32000+ range). The FTP server then connects to that port on your machine, and sends you data. This is Active mode FTP. Passive FTP, works in a similar way, but instead of you telling the server where it can stick it's data, the server will tell you to connect to it and will let you know what port. Again, this is a dynamic port and usually a FTP server will have a specific range that it will use. So, if your ftp server allows you to specify the range of ports it can use for passive ftp, then you should be able to tell your router to forward that range of ports to your FTP server machine, thereby enabling passive FTP. This is advantageous for people trying to connect to your server, who are also behind a NAT gateway, (as your server won't be able to connect to their machine for the same reason... thus the need for passive FTP). Sorry I'm being so annoying... I hate it when I do something with my computer that I don't understand 100%. Ditto :) Hope that explains it enough for you. MAL -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
On Wednesday 25 June 2003 12:51 pm, Ohad Lutzky wrote: > On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 08:27:34AM -0700, Gכzim Hoxha wrote: > > > And last but not least: How much [more] will it > > > cost? > > > > I got a rounter for $29.95 (Canadian)!! It's not > > expensieve :) > > That really sounds cheap. Was it a linksys? If not, what interface do > you use to configure it? (Please say web, I love web interfaces! :) ) > > > Also to learn more about how this stuffworks go to: > > http://computer.howstuffworks.com/router.htm > > and when you get there if you wanna know about > > switches just search for them; is a great site ;) > > It certainly is. Thanks for the tip! I've never thought of looking > there. > > Here's what I understand so far: In the setup I've seen, where two > PCs are connected over a switch to a modem, it isn't really a > "network" - the PCs can only talk to the modem one at a time, and it > works as if the PC was connected directly. Not good for my purpose. > However, if you stick a router between the switch and the modem (or > get a router that has a builtin switch), you basically have a simple > network, in which the computers can communicate with each other > directly, and can talk to the modem (indirectly) at the same time. > That still leaves me with some interal/external IP questions: > > I have an FTP server running on this box, and I'd still like people > outside to be able to reach it. Will outside computers still be able > to communicate directly with mine? How will they distinguish between > them? I run a linsys here and it is a web interface to administer it. Under "advanced" settings there is a page for port forwarding. You can upen her up for FTP, SSH web server or what ever you like. The problem is, you'll need to use static IP's within your network to keep the FTP server enabled. This isn't a big hastle but requires you to RTFM. -- Regards, Ernie 100% Microsoft and Intel free -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 06:16:07PM +0100, MAL wrote: > On your router, you will be able to point certain ports to certain > machines on the LAN. > Unless your router has some clever programs installed on it, people will > need to use active FTP to connect to your server, (ie. not passive ftp). > All you need to do is forward port 21 on the router, to port 21 on > your PC. > > Note: you will need to get a router that can do NAT. NAT... that term is new to me, but I've seen it on VMWare. I'm guessing that it means Network Address Translation. I can see that the Linksys routers can do it. So that basically means that on the internet, only the router will be seen, but it'll look as if it's running an FTP server? And why will this have to be active FTP? If the port is forwarded directly, won't it work just like it used to? And what of port 80, and the other regular-use ports? Surely I'll want several machines using those at the same time... how will that work? Sorry I'm being so annoying... I hate it when I do something with my computer that I don't understand 100%. -- Tactless "If it wasn't for fog, the world would run at a really crappy framerate." This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your .signature. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ date ; echo ${GXzim}
Wednesday 25 June 2003 12:27 pm
> [snipped extreneky big and unnecessary quoted text]
>
> I got a rounter for $29.95 (Canadian)!! It's not
> expensieve :)
>
> Also to learn more about how this stuffworks go to:
> http://computer.howstuffworks.com/router.htm
> and when you get there if you wanna know about
> switches just search for them; is a great site ;)
>
GXzim, I've trimmed almost 10x the size of your reply. Could you please only
quote the relevant part of the email? Thanks.
Regards,
Norberto
pgp0.pgp
Description: signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
Ohad Lutzky wrote: Here's what I understand so far: In the setup I've seen, where two PCs are connected over a switch to a modem, it isn't really a "network" - the PCs can only talk to the modem one at a time, and it works as if the PC was connected directly. Not good for my purpose. However, if you stick a router between the switch and the modem (or get a router that has a builtin switch), you basically have a simple network, in which the computers can communicate with each other directly, and can talk to the modem (indirectly) at the same time. That still leaves me with some interal/external IP questions: I have an FTP server running on this box, and I'd still like people outside to be able to reach it. Will outside computers still be able to communicate directly with mine? How will they distinguish between them? On your router, you will be able to point certain ports to certain machines on the LAN. Unless your router has some clever programs installed on it, people will need to use active FTP to connect to your server, (ie. not passive ftp). All you need to do is forward port 21 on the router, to port 21 on your PC. Note: you will need to get a router that can do NAT. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
--- Ohad Lutzky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 08:27:34AM -0700, Gëzim > Hoxha wrote: > > > > And last but not least: How much [more] will it > > > cost? > > > > I got a rounter for $29.95 (Canadian)!! It's not > > expensieve :) > > That really sounds cheap. Was it a linksys? If not, > what interface do > you use to configure it? (Please say web, I love web > interfaces! :) ) It's a NetGear, and I think I can use the web interface to configure it (just type the ip that it gives you in konqueror). Oh, I haven't had time to set it up yet :) but from the manual it didn't sound to hard. Also it's supposed to have a built in switch! > > > Also to learn more about how this stuffworks go > to: > > http://computer.howstuffworks.com/router.htm > > and when you get there if you wanna know about > > switches just search for them; is a great site ;) > > It certainly is. Thanks for the tip! I've never > thought of looking > there. You're welcome, glad I could help :) [don't get to say that often] > > Here's what I understand so far: In the setup I've > seen, where two PCs > are connected over a switch to a modem, it isn't > really a "network" - > the PCs can only talk to the modem one at a time, > and it works as if the > PC was connected directly. Not good for my purpose. > However, if you stick a router between the switch > and the modem (or get > a router that has a builtin switch), you basically > have a simple > network, in which the computers can communicate with > each other > directly, and can talk to the modem (indirectly) at > the same time. > That still leaves me with some interal/external IP > questions: > > I have an FTP server running on this box, and I'd > still like people > outside to be able to reach it. Will outside > computers still be able to > communicate directly with mine? How will they > distinguish between them? This I have no idea :( But I'd like to know to coz I wanna run a web server. > -- > Tactless > > "If it wasn't for fog, the world would run at a > really crappy framerate." > This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your > .signature. > > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 08:27:34AM -0700, Gכzim Hoxha wrote: > > And last but not least: How much [more] will it > > cost? > > I got a rounter for $29.95 (Canadian)!! It's not > expensieve :) That really sounds cheap. Was it a linksys? If not, what interface do you use to configure it? (Please say web, I love web interfaces! :) ) > Also to learn more about how this stuffworks go to: > http://computer.howstuffworks.com/router.htm > and when you get there if you wanna know about > switches just search for them; is a great site ;) It certainly is. Thanks for the tip! I've never thought of looking there. Here's what I understand so far: In the setup I've seen, where two PCs are connected over a switch to a modem, it isn't really a "network" - the PCs can only talk to the modem one at a time, and it works as if the PC was connected directly. Not good for my purpose. However, if you stick a router between the switch and the modem (or get a router that has a builtin switch), you basically have a simple network, in which the computers can communicate with each other directly, and can talk to the modem (indirectly) at the same time. That still leaves me with some interal/external IP questions: I have an FTP server running on this box, and I'd still like people outside to be able to reach it. Will outside computers still be able to communicate directly with mine? How will they distinguish between them? -- Tactless "If it wasn't for fog, the world would run at a really crappy framerate." This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your .signature. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Jan Drugowitsch wrote: > > I would read the ISP's policy before asking about connecting a network to your > ADSL connection. Many of the ISP's I know do not allow that. Although asking > itsself wouldn't do any bad they could get aware of the fact that you are > trying to do that. That would not be worrying either if I wouldn't have read > about a method about half a year ago which describes a method of how to > detect such a network by tracing IDs of TCP packages. This could put you on > the ISP's watchlist and this wouldn't be a good thing. So before contacting > the ISP: Read their policy! Furthermore, using NAT on a public routable IP in the state of Michigan is a felony... I don't know about other states, but I wouldn't be suprised if it's that way elsewhere too. -j -- Rev. Jeffrey Paul-datavibe- [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim:x736e65616b pgp:0x15FA257E phone:8777483467 70E0 B896 D5F3 8BF4 4BEE 2CCF EF2F BA28 15FA 257E -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 04:14:33PM +0100, Jan Drugowitsch wrote: Content-Description: signed data > On Wednesday 25 June 2003 12:36, Ohad Lutzky wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 12:16:52PM +0100, MAL wrote: > > > Ok, so you either need a second network card, or use the dubious method > > > of doing to accross a hub as described elsewhere in this thread :) > > > > I'll ask my ISP how to do this. I sure hope I can do it dubiously... > > sounds easier :) > > I would read the ISP's policy before asking about connecting a network to your > ADSL connection. Many of the ISP's I know do not allow that. Although asking > itsself wouldn't do any bad they could get aware of the fact that you are > trying to do that. That would not be worrying either if I wouldn't have read > about a method about half a year ago which describes a method of how to > detect such a network by tracing IDs of TCP packages. This could put you on > the ISP's watchlist and this wouldn't be a good thing. So before contacting > the ISP: Read their policy! It's OK... actually, they're the ones who offered it. I'm just looking for some knowledge about it first. -- Tactless "If it wasn't for fog, the world would run at a really crappy framerate." This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your .signature. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
--- Ohad Lutzky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:07:14AM -0400, Ernie > Schroder wrote: > > On Wednesday 25 June 2003 01:29 am, Ohad Lutzky > wrote: > > > I'm a total networking noob, but I'd like to set > up a home network. > > > My current PC (running Linux) is connected over > ADSL using rp-pppoe. > > > It has a printer as well, running on CUPS. My > other PC, an old > > > Packard Bell (bleh) P133 running (walking, > rather) Win98. How would I > > > set this up? The only home LAN setup I've ever > seen is connecting the > > > hub to the modem, and then connecting PCs to the > hub. But my ADSL > > > connection requires me to "log in" (rp-pppoe > takes care of that). > > > Also, will the two PCs "see" each other on a > local network? Or will > > > they have to communicate over the external > network? If so, how will > > > they be assigned different IPs? > > > > > > Probably the most painless method to do this would > be to purchase a > > router/hub or a router and a hub. The router takes > care of the log in > > and DHCP plus affords some firewall capability. > Router setup is a snap > > Linksys for one comes basicly pre-configured. You > access it from a > > browser and you really only need to enter user > name and password, set > > your protocol and change the default password to > access the router and > > you're good to go. > > Sounds excellent! This is what I thought a router > did, and then people > showed me a tiny little thing called a "switch", and > said that I was > talking about that... And now, a stream of > questions: > > Which of these are the same? "Hub", "Switch", > "Router" (I'm guessing hub > and switch) > > How does it all connect? Do I connect the router to > the modem, and then > that to a hub/switch which all the ethernet cables > go to? Or is it > something totally different? > > Any particular problems with Linux? Doesn't sound > like there should be, > but still. > > If I set this up, I will basically only need to use > dhcpcd here, and > have the other PC set to get its IPs automatically, > right? > > What kind of IPs will I get? Will it be possible to > have external IPs, > so people can still reach my ftp server? Will I have > to choose on of the > PCs to get an external IP, or will the router know > which one needs it? > Will both computers even be able to use the same > ports at the same time? > > And last but not least: How much [more] will it > cost? I got a rounter for $29.95 (Canadian)!! It's not expensieve :) Also to learn more about how this stuffworks go to: http://computer.howstuffworks.com/router.htm and when you get there if you wanna know about switches just search for them; is a great site ;) > > -- > Tactless > > "If it wasn't for fog, the world would run at a > really crappy framerate." > This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your > .signature. > > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
On Wednesday 25 June 2003 12:36, Ohad Lutzky wrote: > On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 12:16:52PM +0100, MAL wrote: > > Ok, so you either need a second network card, or use the dubious method > > of doing to accross a hub as described elsewhere in this thread :) > > I'll ask my ISP how to do this. I sure hope I can do it dubiously... > sounds easier :) I would read the ISP's policy before asking about connecting a network to your ADSL connection. Many of the ISP's I know do not allow that. Although asking itsself wouldn't do any bad they could get aware of the fact that you are trying to do that. That would not be worrying either if I wouldn't have read about a method about half a year ago which describes a method of how to detect such a network by tracing IDs of TCP packages. This could put you on the ISP's watchlist and this wouldn't be a good thing. So before contacting the ISP: Read their policy! HTH, Jan pgp0.pgp Description: signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
--- MAL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ohad Lutzky wrote: > > I'm a total networking noob, but I'd like to set > up a home network. My > > current PC (running Linux) is connected over ADSL > using rp-pppoe. It has > > a printer as well, running on CUPS. My other PC, > an old Packard Bell > > (bleh) P133 running (walking, rather) Win98. How > would I set this up? > > The only home LAN setup I've ever seen is > connecting the hub to the > > modem, and then connecting PCs to the hub. But my > ADSL connection > > requires me to "log in" (rp-pppoe takes care of > that). Also, will the > > two PCs "see" each other on a local network? Or > will they have to > > communicate over the external network? If so, how > will they be assigned > > different IPs? > > I'm afraid you can't connect a modem to a hub (in > this circumstance) :) > If your ADSL modem only has an ethernet port, your > linux box will need > two network cards. One to connect the PC to the > hub, and one to connect > the PC to the modem. If the modem has a USB port, > and it's one of the > (relatively few) ADSL modems with a Linux driver, > you could connect it > via USB and thus avoid the need for a second network > card. > > To actually get the second PC on the internet, your > Linux PC will need > to have the following enabled in the kernel: > > Networking options ---> >IP: Netfilter Configuration ---> > Connection tracking [M] > IP tables support [M] > Full NAT [M] >MASQUERADE target support [M] > > Your Linux machine needs the above options to > perform NAT.. specifically > IP masquerading. This allows both your PCs to have > LAN IP addresses, > (192.168.0.x), but both use the internet, (by having > their IP address > 'translated' into your ADSL IP address, and back). > > You may well also want some firewalling options, so > enable at least: > > Networking options ---> >IP: Netfilter Configuration ---> > Packet filtering [M] Do I need these and the above options compiled into the kernel even if I'am gonna use a router instead of a hub? (I won't need 2 network cards in one PC, I don't think) > > > All these can be staticly compiled instead of > modules. > > > You then need some way of enabling NAT, (and > possibly firewall). > There are some graphical firewall setup programs, > but I think it's > easier and faster to get it up and running with a > simple pre-written script. > > I find this one satisfactory for home use: > http://firewall.lutel.pl/ > > Simply fill in your various interface names, and > specify what ports you > want available to the internet and the LAN, then run > it with ./firewall > start. Note: you will need to have recompiled your > kernel and the > modules, and rebooted, before this can do it's job. > > The last step is to set up your two PCs /internal/ > interfaces. For such > a small network, I would simply give your Linux PC > the IP: > > 192.168.0.254 > > and your Win98 machine: 192.168.0.1 > > x.x.x.254 is commonly used for a gateway machine on > LAN, and this is > exactly what your Linux PC will be. > > You will also need to set your Win98 box's Default > Gateway to > 192.168.0.254, and it's DNS servers to whatever your > ISP gave you. > > MAL > > > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:07:14AM -0400, Ernie Schroder wrote: > On Wednesday 25 June 2003 01:29 am, Ohad Lutzky wrote: > > I'm a total networking noob, but I'd like to set up a home network. > > My current PC (running Linux) is connected over ADSL using rp-pppoe. > > It has a printer as well, running on CUPS. My other PC, an old > > Packard Bell (bleh) P133 running (walking, rather) Win98. How would I > > set this up? The only home LAN setup I've ever seen is connecting the > > hub to the modem, and then connecting PCs to the hub. But my ADSL > > connection requires me to "log in" (rp-pppoe takes care of that). > > Also, will the two PCs "see" each other on a local network? Or will > > they have to communicate over the external network? If so, how will > > they be assigned different IPs? > > > Probably the most painless method to do this would be to purchase a > router/hub or a router and a hub. The router takes care of the log in > and DHCP plus affords some firewall capability. Router setup is a snap > Linksys for one comes basicly pre-configured. You access it from a > browser and you really only need to enter user name and password, set > your protocol and change the default password to access the router and > you're good to go. Sounds excellent! This is what I thought a router did, and then people showed me a tiny little thing called a "switch", and said that I was talking about that... And now, a stream of questions: Which of these are the same? "Hub", "Switch", "Router" (I'm guessing hub and switch) How does it all connect? Do I connect the router to the modem, and then that to a hub/switch which all the ethernet cables go to? Or is it something totally different? Any particular problems with Linux? Doesn't sound like there should be, but still. If I set this up, I will basically only need to use dhcpcd here, and have the other PC set to get its IPs automatically, right? What kind of IPs will I get? Will it be possible to have external IPs, so people can still reach my ftp server? Will I have to choose on of the PCs to get an external IP, or will the router know which one needs it? Will both computers even be able to use the same ports at the same time? And last but not least: How much [more] will it cost? -- Tactless "If it wasn't for fog, the world would run at a really crappy framerate." This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your .signature. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
On Wednesday 25 June 2003 01:29 am, Ohad Lutzky wrote: > I'm a total networking noob, but I'd like to set up a home network. > My current PC (running Linux) is connected over ADSL using rp-pppoe. > It has a printer as well, running on CUPS. My other PC, an old > Packard Bell (bleh) P133 running (walking, rather) Win98. How would I > set this up? The only home LAN setup I've ever seen is connecting the > hub to the modem, and then connecting PCs to the hub. But my ADSL > connection requires me to "log in" (rp-pppoe takes care of that). > Also, will the two PCs "see" each other on a local network? Or will > they have to communicate over the external network? If so, how will > they be assigned different IPs? Probably the most painless method to do this would be to purchase a router/hub or a router and a hub. The router takes care of the log in and DHCP plus affords some firewall capability. Router setup is a snap Linksys for one comes basicly pre-configured. You access it from a browser and you really only need to enter user name and password, set your protocol and change the default password to access the router and you're good to go. -- Regards, Ernie 100% Microsoft and Intel free -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 12:16:52PM +0100, MAL wrote: > Ok, so you either need a second network card, or use the dubious method > of doing to accross a hub as described elsewhere in this thread :) I'll ask my ISP how to do this. I sure hope I can do it dubiously... sounds easier :) > >Can't see those. I can see "Network packet filtering (replaces ipchains)" > >though. vanilla-sources-2.4.21. > > Yes, my mistake. If you enable 'Network packet filtering', the option I > mentioned above will magically appear :) Got it, thanks. > >How do I do this? My PC seems to automatically retrieve its IP address. > >Is it done through adsl-setup? > > It's getting an external IP address from the modem via PPP. This is > correct, and I assume this is being assigned to your eth0 interface? Nope... it gets assigned to ppp0. eth0 doesn't seem to have an IP address. eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:00:B4:B6:17:35 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:68147 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:53293 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:17 txqueuelen:100 RX bytes:76868013 (73.3 Mb) TX bytes:6387245 (6.0 Mb) Interrupt:11 Base address:0xe400 That's odd though... isn't it supposed to be a micro-LAN between the PC and the modem, in such a way that I could telnet into the modem for maintenance? > You should set your _second_ network card's IP address to 192.168.0.254 > > See the Gentoo documentation on how to do this. Makes sense. And then the PCs can just "see" each other? If I set Samba up here and configure my printer, the win98 box will be able to see it? > 192.168.x.x is a range of IP addresses, reserved for LAN use. That is, > they are not valid on the internet. > > There is also 172.16.x.x-172.31.x.x and 10.x.x.x , but these are for > larger local networks. I see. This also means, I guess, that my other box won't have an external IP address (nor will it have a connection at all when this one is off). That's how my old cable ISP worked... we had 10.x.x.x addresses (which sucked if I wanted to have an FTP server for friends on a different ISP). Thanks for all of your help! -- Tactless "If it wasn't for fog, the world would run at a really crappy framerate." This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your .signature. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
> >I'm afraid you can't connect a modem to a hub (in this circumstance) :) > >If your ADSL modem only has an ethernet port, your linux box will need two > >network cards. One to connect the PC to the hub, and one to connect the > >PC to the modem. If the modem has a USB port, and it's one of the > >(relatively few) ADSL modems with a Linux driver, you could connect it via > >USB and thus avoid the need for a second network card. > > Wrong ;) > i used this config for a while (before buying a second NIC on my gateway > ;p) : > adsl model (ethernet) connected on hub, three pcs on th same hub (1 linux > gateway, 2 workstation under linux/win XP) Actually, I had SNET DSL for a while, and we had the same setup. We connected the dsl modem to the hub, and we could all connect at the same time. We would each get our own IP and everything. SNET sure did a good job setting up their network. Also, if we went to the webpage where it reports how many hours you used that month, the cgi script would often crash because we had more hours than there are in a month. Note that this is probably very rare :P -- Zachary P. Landau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GPG: gpg --recv-key 0x24E5AD99 | http://kapheine.hypa.net/kapheine.asc pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
Ohad Lutzky wrote: On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:01:12AM +0100, MAL wrote: I'm afraid you can't connect a modem to a hub (in this circumstance) :) If your ADSL modem only has an ethernet port, your linux box will need two network cards. One to connect the PC to the hub, and one to connect the PC to the modem. If the modem has a USB port, and it's one of the (relatively few) ADSL modems with a Linux driver, you could connect it via USB and thus avoid the need for a second network card. No USB ports here... neither on the modem nor the computer. Ok, so you either need a second network card, or use the dubious method of doing to accross a hub as described elsewhere in this thread :) To actually get the second PC on the internet, your Linux PC will need to have the following enabled in the kernel: Networking options ---> IP: Netfilter Configuration ---> Connection tracking [M] IP tables support [M] Full NAT [M] MASQUERADE target support [M] Can't see those. I can see "Network packet filtering (replaces ipchains)" though. vanilla-sources-2.4.21. Yes, my mistake. If you enable 'Network packet filtering', the option I mentioned above will magically appear :) The last step is to set up your two PCs /internal/ interfaces. For such a small network, I would simply give your Linux PC the IP: 192.168.0.254 and your Win98 machine: 192.168.0.1 How do I do this? My PC seems to automatically retrieve its IP address. Is it done through adsl-setup? It's getting an external IP address from the modem via PPP. This is correct, and I assume this is being assigned to your eth0 interface? You should set your _second_ network card's IP address to 192.168.0.254 See the Gentoo documentation on how to do this. x.x.x.254 is commonly used for a gateway machine on LAN, and this is exactly what your Linux PC will be. You will also need to set your Win98 box's Default Gateway to 192.168.0.254, and it's DNS servers to whatever your ISP gave you. Sounds horribly complex, but I'll try it. I'll let the people from my ISP set it up using Windows first, so I'll know I have the hardware connected right. By the way - why is it specifically 192.168.0.x? 192.168.x.x is a range of IP addresses, reserved for LAN use. That is, they are not valid on the internet. There is also 172.16.x.x-172.31.x.x and 10.x.x.x , but these are for larger local networks. MAL -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:01:12AM +0100, MAL wrote: > I'm afraid you can't connect a modem to a hub (in this circumstance) :) > If your ADSL modem only has an ethernet port, your linux box will need > two network cards. One to connect the PC to the hub, and one to connect > the PC to the modem. If the modem has a USB port, and it's one of the > (relatively few) ADSL modems with a Linux driver, you could connect it > via USB and thus avoid the need for a second network card. No USB ports here... neither on the modem nor the computer. > To actually get the second PC on the internet, your Linux PC will need > to have the following enabled in the kernel: > > Networking options ---> > IP: Netfilter Configuration ---> > Connection tracking [M] > IP tables support [M] > Full NAT [M] > MASQUERADE target support [M] Can't see those. I can see "Network packet filtering (replaces ipchains)" though. vanilla-sources-2.4.21. > Your Linux machine needs the above options to perform NAT.. specifically > IP masquerading. This allows both your PCs to have LAN IP addresses, > (192.168.0.x), but both use the internet, (by having their IP address > 'translated' into your ADSL IP address, and back). > > You may well also want some firewalling options, so enable at least: > > Networking options ---> > IP: Netfilter Configuration ---> > Packet filtering [M] > > You then need some way of enabling NAT, (and possibly firewall). > There are some graphical firewall setup programs, but I think it's > easier and faster to get it up and running with a simple pre-written script. > > I find this one satisfactory for home use: > http://firewall.lutel.pl/ > > Simply fill in your various interface names, and specify what ports you > want available to the internet and the LAN, then run it with ./firewall > start. Note: you will need to have recompiled your kernel and the > modules, and rebooted, before this can do it's job. > > The last step is to set up your two PCs /internal/ interfaces. For such > a small network, I would simply give your Linux PC the IP: > > 192.168.0.254 > > and your Win98 machine: 192.168.0.1 How do I do this? My PC seems to automatically retrieve its IP address. Is it done through adsl-setup? > x.x.x.254 is commonly used for a gateway machine on LAN, and this is > exactly what your Linux PC will be. > > You will also need to set your Win98 box's Default Gateway to > 192.168.0.254, and it's DNS servers to whatever your ISP gave you. Sounds horribly complex, but I'll try it. I'll let the people from my ISP set it up using Windows first, so I'll know I have the hardware connected right. By the way - why is it specifically 192.168.0.x? -- Tactless "If it wasn't for fog, the world would run at a really crappy framerate." This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your .signature. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
At 10:17 25/06/2003, you wrote: Yes, only one at a time... meaning it's pointless. You aren't circumventing the need for multiple network cards at all. You might as well just plug the modem into each pc one by one. All you are doing is extending the network connection that would normally connect the modem to the PC, by sticking a hub inbetween. in my case I was quite happy to discover that, since i'm really a lazy boy, and being able to modify my routing and connection point without moving anything in my bedroom was really a pleasure. that way, i can hide everything behind lots of mess, without having to dig through when i need to change something ;p If you had a routing capable modem, ie. a router, you /could/ connect it to a hub. I did however, just wonder whether maybe you could connect the modem to the hub as you stated, then configure your linux pc only to 'dial up' via the modem, and run IP masquerading on it. Then set all the other machine's gateway's to the IP of your linux box. No idea how this would affect the modem's ability to operate. It may get confused by broadcast packets from the other PCs. that's what i did, for at least 6 monthes. the linux box was my gateway, controlling the connection and making NAT/masquerading, connected to the hub, and the modem on the hub too. it worked well, and the modem was'nt disturbed by broadcast =) -- cab -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
CABEC2 wrote: I'm afraid you can't connect a modem to a hub (in this circumstance) :) If your ADSL modem only has an ethernet port, your linux box will need two network cards. One to connect the PC to the hub, and one to connect the PC to the modem. If the modem has a USB port, and it's one of the (relatively few) ADSL modems with a Linux driver, you could connect it via USB and thus avoid the need for a second network card. Wrong ;) i used this config for a while (before buying a second NIC on my gateway ;p) : adsl model (ethernet) connected on hub, three pcs on th same hub (1 linux gateway, 2 workstation under linux/win XP) and i was able to use the modem from every pc (only one at a time though ;p), i never understood how, but it worked, and allowed me to reinstall my gateway using internet (useful for gentoo ;p) via my main workstation, withtout having to modify any physical connections in my network... maybe it was a patricular case, but i don't think so =) Yes, only one at a time... meaning it's pointless. You aren't circumventing the need for multiple network cards at all. You might as well just plug the modem into each pc one by one. All you are doing is extending the network connection that would normally connect the modem to the PC, by sticking a hub inbetween. If you had a routing capable modem, ie. a router, you /could/ connect it to a hub. I did however, just wonder whether maybe you could connect the modem to the hub as you stated, then configure your linux pc only to 'dial up' via the modem, and run IP masquerading on it. Then set all the other machine's gateway's to the IP of your linux box. No idea how this would affect the modem's ability to operate. It may get confused by broadcast packets from the other PCs. MAL -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
At 10:01 25/06/2003, you wrote: Ohad Lutzky wrote: I'm a total networking noob, but I'd like to set up a home network. My current PC (running Linux) is connected over ADSL using rp-pppoe. It has a printer as well, running on CUPS. My other PC, an old Packard Bell (bleh) P133 running (walking, rather) Win98. How would I set this up? The only home LAN setup I've ever seen is connecting the hub to the modem, and then connecting PCs to the hub. But my ADSL connection requires me to "log in" (rp-pppoe takes care of that). Also, will the two PCs "see" each other on a local network? Or will they have to communicate over the external network? If so, how will they be assigned different IPs? I'm afraid you can't connect a modem to a hub (in this circumstance) :) If your ADSL modem only has an ethernet port, your linux box will need two network cards. One to connect the PC to the hub, and one to connect the PC to the modem. If the modem has a USB port, and it's one of the (relatively few) ADSL modems with a Linux driver, you could connect it via USB and thus avoid the need for a second network card. Wrong ;) i used this config for a while (before buying a second NIC on my gateway ;p) : adsl model (ethernet) connected on hub, three pcs on th same hub (1 linux gateway, 2 workstation under linux/win XP) and i was able to use the modem from every pc (only one at a time though ;p), i never understood how, but it worked, and allowed me to reinstall my gateway using internet (useful for gentoo ;p) via my main workstation, withtout having to modify any physical connections in my network... maybe it was a patricular case, but i don't think so =) -- cab -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
Ohad Lutzky wrote: I'm a total networking noob, but I'd like to set up a home network. My current PC (running Linux) is connected over ADSL using rp-pppoe. It has a printer as well, running on CUPS. My other PC, an old Packard Bell (bleh) P133 running (walking, rather) Win98. How would I set this up? The only home LAN setup I've ever seen is connecting the hub to the modem, and then connecting PCs to the hub. But my ADSL connection requires me to "log in" (rp-pppoe takes care of that). Also, will the two PCs "see" each other on a local network? Or will they have to communicate over the external network? If so, how will they be assigned different IPs? I'm afraid you can't connect a modem to a hub (in this circumstance) :) If your ADSL modem only has an ethernet port, your linux box will need two network cards. One to connect the PC to the hub, and one to connect the PC to the modem. If the modem has a USB port, and it's one of the (relatively few) ADSL modems with a Linux driver, you could connect it via USB and thus avoid the need for a second network card. To actually get the second PC on the internet, your Linux PC will need to have the following enabled in the kernel: Networking options ---> IP: Netfilter Configuration ---> Connection tracking [M] IP tables support [M] Full NAT [M] MASQUERADE target support [M] Your Linux machine needs the above options to perform NAT.. specifically IP masquerading. This allows both your PCs to have LAN IP addresses, (192.168.0.x), but both use the internet, (by having their IP address 'translated' into your ADSL IP address, and back). You may well also want some firewalling options, so enable at least: Networking options ---> IP: Netfilter Configuration ---> Packet filtering [M] All these can be staticly compiled instead of modules. You then need some way of enabling NAT, (and possibly firewall). There are some graphical firewall setup programs, but I think it's easier and faster to get it up and running with a simple pre-written script. I find this one satisfactory for home use: http://firewall.lutel.pl/ Simply fill in your various interface names, and specify what ports you want available to the internet and the LAN, then run it with ./firewall start. Note: you will need to have recompiled your kernel and the modules, and rebooted, before this can do it's job. The last step is to set up your two PCs /internal/ interfaces. For such a small network, I would simply give your Linux PC the IP: 192.168.0.254 and your Win98 machine: 192.168.0.1 x.x.x.254 is commonly used for a gateway machine on LAN, and this is exactly what your Linux PC will be. You will also need to set your Win98 box's Default Gateway to 192.168.0.254, and it's DNS servers to whatever your ISP gave you. MAL -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Networking with ADSL?
I'm a total networking noob, but I'd like to set up a home network. My current PC (running Linux) is connected over ADSL using rp-pppoe. It has a printer as well, running on CUPS. My other PC, an old Packard Bell (bleh) P133 running (walking, rather) Win98. How would I set this up? The only home LAN setup I've ever seen is connecting the hub to the modem, and then connecting PCs to the hub. But my ADSL connection requires me to "log in" (rp-pppoe takes care of that). Also, will the two PCs "see" each other on a local network? Or will they have to communicate over the external network? If so, how will they be assigned different IPs? -- Tactless "If it wasn't for fog, the world would run at a really crappy framerate." This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your .signature. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
