Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans.
mathieu wrote: > Online shop isn't up and Offline shop doesn't work :-( > Btw, how do I remove old "push pins"? Is there anotherway than using > scissors or cutter to get rid of them? Most overclocking orientated etailers flog zalman stuff. I used some fine pliers to push them through the mobo. Rick Kitty5 NewMedia http://Kitty5.com POV-Ray News & Resources http://Povray.co.uk TEL : +44 (01270) 501101 - ICQ : 15776037 PGP Public Key http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x231E1CEA -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans.
Le Lundi 6 Octobre 2003 12:08, Rick [Kitty5] a écrit : > mathieu wrote: > > I know that I've to find a better solution than having a fan standing > > on my videocard, but until then, it'll do like that. > > http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/nb32j.htm > http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/zm-nb47j.htm Online shop isn't up and Offline shop doesn't work :-( Btw, how do I remove old "push pins"? Is there anotherway than using scissors or cutter to get rid of them? -- mathieu perrenoud -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans.
mathieu wrote: > I know that I've to find a better solution than having a fan standing > on my videocard, but until then, it'll do like that. http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/nb32j.htm http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/zm-nb47j.htm Rick Kitty5 NewMedia http://Kitty5.com POV-Ray News & Resources http://Povray.co.uk TEL : +44 (01270) 501101 - ICQ : 15776037 PGP Public Key http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x231E1CEA -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] installing fans.
Thanks to all of you for answering my question about fans. I buyed two fans one pulling air inside from the front and one blowing it outside from the rear. And just after that, I felt really stupid when I saw that my chipset's fan was dead. Impossible to find a 4cm fan in my town to replace it. So I placed one of my new fan on my video card in front of my MB's chipset. Everything is cooler now: hds: 34°, box 28° and chipset 58° (idle). Actually the whole weather is cooler: 7° :-( I know that I've to find a better solution than having a fan standing on my videocard, but until then, it'll do like that. thanks again -- mathieu -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans (was: strange informations from lm-sensors)
hi ! have a look at : http://www.overclockers.com/topiclist/index09.asp#CASE%20COOLING joe On Friday 26 September 2003 14:26, mathieu perrenoud wrote: > After my yesterday's thread, I decided to buy one fan. When I saw the > price, I buyed two instead. But now, I don't know how to place them in the > case. The boxes of the fans says that I should place them at the rear of > the case and make sure they pull air from the inside toward the outside. > Yesterday, you told me that it could be better to pull air inside and the > guy at the shop told me that on his own box he had a fan in front pulling > air inside and one at the rear blowing air outside. > I'm at a complete loss here. Should I follow box's instructions? or the > guy's advice. > I think I'll first try with one in the front and one in the back. If it's > stupid or even dangerous, any quick warning would be greatly appreciated. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans
On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:14:34 + "Hemmann, Volker Armin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > For cpu&mainbord temps emerge i2c and lm-sensors. > > Glück Auf > Volker > > > -- > Conclusions > In a straight-up fight, the Empire squashes the Federation like a bug. Even > with its numerical advantage removed, the Empire would still squash the > Federation like a bug. Accept it. -Michael Wong > > > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > > What about kernel 2.6.0? i2c is now built-in, but I can't find any data on lm-sensors for 2.6. -- Collins Richey - Denver Area if you fill your heart with regrets of yesterday and the worries of tomorrow, you have no today to be thankful for. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans (was: strange informations from lm-sensors)
- Original Message - From: "Carlos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans (was: strange informations from lm-sensors) > > shop told me that on his own box he had a fan in front pulling air inside and one at the rear blowing air outside. > > I do that. > I have two fans on the front sucking air in. Incidentally, they also blow directly over the hard drives. Chris -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans
On Friday 26 Sep 2003 18:20, Collins Richey wrote: > Just out of curiosity, what is the normal max temperature tolerted by > drives, cpu's, etc? The only tool I have to provide temp info is > hddtemp. hda (older, slower) does not return temp info, but hdb > normally is 48C-51C. Is this good, bad, or indifferent? I have 3 hard disks with a fan attached to the cradle that holds them. It blows air in to the case from the front. $ hddtemp /dev/hde /dev/hde: Maxtor 6Y200P0: 25°C ...is typical for me. My athlon is running about 54°C and the MB sensor says 38°C Peter -- == Gentoo: Portage 2.0.49-r3 (default-x86-1.4, gcc-3.2.3, glibc-2.3.2-r1, 2.4.22_pre2-gss) kernel-2.4.22_pre2-gss i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 3200+ == -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans
I have a case with two fans set to pull air from the case. The case itself has slots around the lower side panel to let air in. Setting the rear fan to push, where it blows almost onto the cpu cases a 2-3deg rise in cpu temp over the other way. The front fan causes the harddrives (next to, but not in the flow) to run ~5deg hotter, but one is much hotter than the other, instead of being nearly balanced (raid 0 array - 2 ibm deathstars) It seems that airflow within the case is the most important fact. Sucking air out of the case helps avoid hot/cold spots caused by a flow of air that seems to just go in one fan and out the other, without doing anything elswhere in the box!. I am also a bit dubious about 1 suck, 1 blow from the point that the fans are basicly handling the same air, meaning total flow is less. Did try to setting both case fans to blow, but no real difference over the imbalances of each being reversed singly. I have hacked the case to remove any obstructions to the fans as well. Maybe this year I'll get through an aussie summer without meltdown ... BillK This may be useful as a comparison for some: rattus root # sensors;hddtemp /dev/hde /dev/hdg w83697hf-isa-0290 Adapter: ISA adapter Algorithm: ISA algorithm VCore: +1.77 V (min = +1.71 V, max = +1.88 V) +3.3V: +3.24 V (min = +3.13 V, max = +3.45 V) +5V: +4.91 V (min = +4.72 V, max = +5.24 V) +12V: +12.20 V (min = +10.79 V, max = +13.19 V) -12V: -12.03 V (min = -13.21 V, max = -10.90 V) -5V: -4.95 V (min = -5.26 V, max = -4.76 V) V5SB: +5.44 V (min = +4.72 V, max = +5.24 V) VBat: +3.39 V (min = +2.40 V, max = +3.60 V) fan1: 5000 RPM (min = 3000 RPM, div = 2) fan2: 2896 RPM (min = 3000 RPM, div = 2) temp1: +41°C (limit = +60°C) sensor = thermistor temp2: +46.0°C (limit = +60°C, hysteresis = +50°C) sensor = thermistor alarms: beep_enable: Sound alarm disabled /dev/hde: IC35L060AVER07-0: 37 C /dev/hdg: IC35L060AVER07-0: 36 C * the cpu fan is a 6000 rpm on a copper heatsink running at its middle speed (to avoid noise abatement notices from the neighbours - its 7am) Ambient is ~24degC house heating is on as its early spring and 13degC outside. cpu is a tbird 1.4G room heater. Running a backup job compressing a few Gbytes to iso's for burning so cpu is working hard, but disks about average. Unloaded cpu sits about 38C->40C under these conditions. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans
On Friday 26 September 2003 01:54 pm, Ernie Schroder wrote: > On Friday 26 September 2003 01:20 pm, Collins Richey wrote: > > On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:38:31 -0700 (PDT) > > > > Stephen Rose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > There's probably a lot of ways to do it. But this works well > > > for me. I do monitor the tempurature of the various components > > > with remote thermometers. Actually, with a reasonable amount > > > air moving through the case, I don't really believe that > > > convection has that much of a chance to take part in the > > > cooling. Again, my opinion. > > > > > > Steve Rose > > > > Just out of curiosity, what is the normal max temperature > > tolerted by drives, cpu's, etc? The only tool I have to provide > > temp info is hddtemp. hda (older, slower) does not return temp > > info, but hdb normally is 48C-51C. Is this good, bad, or > > indifferent? > > I currently have the covers of Gentoo_1 I am going to un plug my > front fan and replace the covers. After about 1 hour, I will record > hd and cpu temps, then reattach the fan. After another hour I will > record the temps and post results current temps are: > CPU = 35 C > HDA = 32 C OK, I find this strange. Maybe someone else with a front and rear case fan can repeat my experiment. With covers on and only rear fan blowing out: CPU 35 C HDA 32 C (same as with covers off and both fans connected) Note: I did not remove the front fan, only disconnected the 12VDC Covers on rear fan blowing out and front fan sucking air in: CPU 37 C HDA 35 C The results are counterintuitive to my experience cooling other electrical enclosures in my engineering and design experience with scientific instruments. One might also note that these results are so similar in all cases that these slight variations might be anomalies. Ambient temperature is 2 degrees F (1 degree C) higher at the time of the last results. Top shows, in both cases,
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans
Hi, On Friday 26 September 2003 17:20, Collins Richey wrote: > Just out of curiosity, what is the normal max temperature tolerted by > drives, cpu's, etc? The only tool I have to provide temp info is hddtemp. > hda (older, slower) does not return temp info, but hdb normally is 48C-51C. > Is this good, bad, or indifferent? that is..not so good. Harddisks are suffering a lot from heat, they should not get warmer then 35°C. Every degree more reduces lifetime dramatically. Have a search at google, some hardware sites reported about it, I think a year ago. For cpu&mainbord temps emerge i2c and lm-sensors. Glück Auf Volker -- Conclusions In a straight-up fight, the Empire squashes the Federation like a bug. Even with its numerical advantage removed, the Empire would still squash the Federation like a bug. Accept it. -Michael Wong -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans
Thanks for pointing out hddtemp. I wasn't aware of it. But after a quick 'emerge hddtemp', I found out that only one of my drives seems to support giving the tempurature. That's kind of strange because they're all Western Digital drives of recent vintage, 120 GB and two 200 GB. One of the 200 GB drives gave me a tempurature of 32C. Normally, I use a remote probe thermometer and get readings of 34C. with some variation depending on where the drive is. In the past, I've seen specs of 55C being the upper limit on some drives, but that seems really high to me. Actually, your 48C-51C seems high to me as well. I know that some drives are much more sensitive than that. The 45 GB IBM drives were known for failing with the 'click of death' if you ran them too hot. Steve Rose In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote: > > Just out of curiosity, what is the normal max temperature tolerted by drives, > cpu's, etc? The only tool I have to provide temp info is hddtemp. hda (older, > slower) does not return temp info, but hdb normally is 48C-51C. Is this good, > bad, or indifferent? > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans
On Friday 26 September 2003 01:20 pm, Collins Richey wrote: > On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:38:31 -0700 (PDT) > > Stephen Rose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > There's probably a lot of ways to do it. But this works well for > > me. I do monitor the tempurature of the various components with > > remote thermometers. Actually, with a reasonable amount air > > moving through the case, I don't really believe that convection > > has that much of a chance to take part in the cooling. Again, my > > opinion. > > > > Steve Rose > > Just out of curiosity, what is the normal max temperature tolerted > by drives, cpu's, etc? The only tool I have to provide temp info > is hddtemp. hda (older, slower) does not return temp info, but hdb > normally is 48C-51C. Is this good, bad, or indifferent? I currently have the covers of Gentoo_1 I am going to un plug my front fan and replace the covers. After about 1 hour, I will record hd and cpu temps, then reattach the fan. After another hour I will record the temps and post results current temps are: CPU = 35 C HDA = 32 C -- Regards, Ernie 100% Microsoft and Intel free -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans (was: strange informations from lm-sensors)
On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 02:26:38PM +0200, mathieu perrenoud wrote: > After my yesterday's thread, I decided to buy one fan. When I saw the price, I > buyed two instead. But now, I don't know how to place them in the case. > The boxes of the fans says that I should place them at the rear of the case > and make sure they pull air from the inside toward the outside. Yesterday, > you told me that it could be better to pull air inside and the guy at the > shop told me that on his own box he had a fan in front pulling air inside and > one at the rear blowing air outside. > I'm at a complete loss here. Should I follow box's instructions? or the guy's > advice. Sounds like they are both telling you the same thing, in slightly different ways. You want a fan at the front, pulling cold air into the box, and one at the back, pushing hot air out of the box. This arrangement creates a tunnel of air that travels over your CPU/memory/Video card that helps to cool them. Some cases or case mods also allow you to put a fan in the side, again, blowing air out of the box. The fan instructions: "place them at the rear of the case and make sure they pull air from the inside toward the outside." -- IE: a fan at the back pulling air out Yesterday in the forums: "better to pull air inside" -- IE: a fan at the front pulling air in The guys instructions: "he had a fan in front pulling air inside and one at the rear blowing air outside" -- IE: one of each of the above. > I think I'll first try with one in the front and one in the back. If it's > stupid or even dangerous, any quick warning would be greatly appreciated. Nope, sounds good. Just make sure the one at the front is pulling air in and the one at the back is pushing it out ;) I don't know which would be "better" if you only have one fan to put in, but as you have two, I'd go with the "one of each" solution :) alan -- Alan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://arcterex.net "There are only 3 real sports: bull-fighting, car racing and mountain climbing. All the others are mere games."-- Hemingway -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans
On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Stephen Rose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There's probably a lot of ways to do it. But this works well for me. I > do monitor the tempurature of the various components with remote > thermometers. Actually, with a reasonable amount air moving through the > case, I don't really believe that convection has that much of a chance > to take part in the cooling. Again, my opinion. > > Steve Rose > Just out of curiosity, what is the normal max temperature tolerted by drives, cpu's, etc? The only tool I have to provide temp info is hddtemp. hda (older, slower) does not return temp info, but hdb normally is 48C-51C. Is this good, bad, or indifferent? -- Collins Richey - Denver Area if you fill your heart with regrets of yesterday and the worries of tomorrow, you have no today to be thankful for. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans
There's probably a lot of ways to do it. But this works well for me. I do monitor the tempurature of the various components with remote thermometers. Actually, with a reasonable amount air moving through the case, I don't really believe that convection has that much of a chance to take part in the cooling. Again, my opinion. Steve Rose In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote: > On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:05:46 -0700 (PDT) > Stephen Rose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I agree with you that there won't be a vacuum if you have a fan in >> front, but I want a vacuum so that's why I don't use one. As far as > > But, the point is that a vacuum is counter-productive. You *shouldn't* want a > vacuum. > > Think of it this way (very simplified): > > A fan moves air. When the pressure on the intake side of the fan is lower than that > on the outlet side, the fan moves less air (or, if you want to think of it like > this, the fan must work harder to move the same amount of air). When the pressure > on the inlet side is higher than that of the outlet side, it moves more air. > > Air cooling works by convection. The more air you can pass over a hot thing, the > more heat dissipated. > > So, you want to move as much air as possible. > > It is therefore advantageous to have a blower (inlet fan) as opposed to a "vacuum" > so that you can move as much air as possible. > > Now, your argument about directing air over specific devices does have some merit. > Ideally you want drive plate fans blowing air over the drives, adding to the > *positive* pressure inside your case. > > Cheers, > Anthony. > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] installing fans
> >But, the point is that a vacuum is counter-productive. You >*shouldn't* want a vacuum. > >Think of it this way (very simplified): > >A fan moves air. When the pressure on the intake side of the >fan is lower than that on the outlet side, the fan moves less >air (or, if you want to think of it like this, the fan must >work harder to move the same amount of air). When the >pressure on the inlet side is higher than that of the outlet >side, it moves more air. > >Air cooling works by convection. The more air you can pass >over a hot thing, the more heat dissipated. > >So, you want to move as much air as possible. > >It is therefore advantageous to have a blower (inlet fan) as >opposed to a "vacuum" so that you can move as much air as possible. > >Now, your argument about directing air over specific devices >does have some merit. Ideally you want drive plate fans >blowing air over the drives, adding to the *positive* pressure >inside your case. Anthony is right. What Steve it getting at, however, is that he is accepting a slightly lower airflow overall in order to direct airflow over specific components, such as hard drives. My recommendation would be to mount the hard drives low in the case, put a fan right in front of them, and created a better balance of forced inlet and outlet flow. Sorry for jumping in, but pumps (fans, etc) are a topic on which I'm quite knowledgable. -rex -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans
On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Stephen Rose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I agree with you that there won't be a vacuum if you have a fan in > front, but I want a vacuum so that's why I don't use one. As far as But, the point is that a vacuum is counter-productive. You *shouldn't* want a vacuum. Think of it this way (very simplified): A fan moves air. When the pressure on the intake side of the fan is lower than that on the outlet side, the fan moves less air (or, if you want to think of it like this, the fan must work harder to move the same amount of air). When the pressure on the inlet side is higher than that of the outlet side, it moves more air. Air cooling works by convection. The more air you can pass over a hot thing, the more heat dissipated. So, you want to move as much air as possible. It is therefore advantageous to have a blower (inlet fan) as opposed to a "vacuum" so that you can move as much air as possible. Now, your argument about directing air over specific devices does have some merit. Ideally you want drive plate fans blowing air over the drives, adding to the *positive* pressure inside your case. Cheers, Anthony. -- Anthony Floyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans
Mine are in a room over the garage . I run some with RAID arrays of six drives. On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Stephen Rose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I agree with you that there won't be a vacuum if you have a fan in front, but I want a vacuum so that's why I don't use one. As far as real servers go, I agree with you about real server cases for computer room servers with scsi drives. My servers are in my bed room. Not the one that I sleep in though. :-) I want them to be as quiet as possible, so I use ide drives and no more fans than I -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans
I agree with you that there won't be a vacuum if you have a fan in front, but I want a vacuum so that's why I don't use one. As far as real servers go, I agree with you about real server cases for computer room servers with scsi drives. My servers are in my bed room. Not the one that I sleep in though. :-) I want them to be as quiet as possible, so I use ide drives and no more fans than I need to get them to cool. But that's not so bad anymore what with 250 GB drives, etc. I'm plenty happy with three spindles in the case, at least for now. Steve Rose In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote: > There won't be a vaccum - one fan pushes air in, the other > pulls it out. You simply want to put as much air through > the case and have it maintain a good velocity. Most of > the problems I've seen have been processor and video. Even > though they have fans if there isn't any cooler air for > them they'll still heat up. > > Drives are another issue - the case fans won't address > them. In the past I've used drive mounts that had grills > and fans built in to pull air from front over the drive. > However when you get three SCSI drives that still doesn't > work well. For system with a large number of drives I go > to a server cabinet that is designed for the load - it's > got the fans and good cooling paths. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans (was: strange informations from lm-sensors)
Hi ! Something about fans. If you block the low-pressure-side of a fan (with cables, finger-quards,...) the pressure-increase over the fan is much lower compared to the situation, if you have the barriers on the high-pressure-side (the side, where the air comes out). I remember a lecture, where somebody from papst-fans said something about 25% of the pressure-increase with a flat plate 10 mm near the fan on the sucking side compared to the plate on the blowing side. And then it is possible that you have not enough flow rate. Thats the main reason, why CPU-Coolers blow toward the heat-sink and not the other way. Try to have much room on the sucking side of the fan. If you want to blow cold air from outside, put the fan outside the case and blow through the holes into the case. The air on the sucking side of a fan comes from everywhere, also from the blowing side. This is like your loudspeaker. You can put a small plate in radial direction (the plane, in which the axial fan rotates) to prevent this air bypass. The air on the blowing side goes into one direction and diffuses the farer you are. So you can control the air-stream. I use litte fans in the case to bring more air to critical regions. If you blow the air into the case, the pressure in the case is higher than outside and the (warm) air goes out through every hole, also through your floppy-drive. If you have a dusty room like me, then this can come to a problem. If you blow the air out of the case, the pressure in the case is lower than outside and the fresh air comes everywhere in (This is the situation, if you have only the fan to the outside in the powersupply). If you suck the air out in the front area of your case, you have always warm feet. Do this, if you like this. Warm air goes up, so better try to get the air out of your case in top regions and blow in at the bottom. If you blow the air into the case near the (dusty?) floor you can get a problem with dust. I hope you could get some useable infos out of this. If you have not enough holes in your case, simple make them. But you will lower the protection against electromagnetic waves. The holes have to be smaller than the wavelength if I remeber correct. If your highest frequency in your box is 2 GHz you have to stay under 15 cm. Or am I wrong? How high is the higest freq? How for example is the 2 GHz for the CPU generated? Try to feel like the wind in your case and you will see the problems *grin* Joe On Friday 26 September 2003 14:26, mathieu perrenoud wrote: > After my yesterday's thread, I decided to buy one fan. When I saw the > price, I buyed two instead. But now, I don't know how to place them in the > case. The boxes of the fans says that I should place them at the rear of > the case and make sure they pull air from the inside toward the outside. > Yesterday, you told me that it could be better to pull air inside and the > guy at the shop told me that on his own box he had a fan in front pulling > air inside and one at the rear blowing air outside. > I'm at a complete loss here. Should I follow box's instructions? or the > guy's advice. > I think I'll first try with one in the front and one in the back. If it's > stupid or even dangerous, any quick warning would be greatly appreciated. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans
There won't be a vaccum - one fan pushes air in, the other pulls it out. You simply want to put as much air through the case and have it maintain a good velocity. Most of the problems I've seen have been processor and video. Even though they have fans if there isn't any cooler air for them they'll still heat up. Drives are another issue - the case fans won't address them. In the past I've used drive mounts that had grills and fans built in to pull air from front over the drive. However when you get three SCSI drives that still doesn't work well. For system with a large number of drives I go to a server cabinet that is designed for the load - it's got the fans and good cooling paths. On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Stephen Rose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I don't leave the whole front panel off, just the blank in front of the disk that I want to cool. A front fan would push air in and would to work against what the fans in the rear are trying to do, create a partial vacuum in the case. The fans in the back of the case still move the same amount of air out, but the fan in the front doesn't really do any good and works against the partial vacuum so less air actually goes over the drives in the manner that I described. I suppose a fan in front would help direct air to the motherboard and cards, if that was where your cooling problem was. But I never have anything there that needs that much cooling. The video card GPU and northbridge have fans, if they need one. So there's no particular reason to direct air to them, just get the heat out of the case, which the rear fans do. That's my reasoning, anyway. Steve Rose In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote: By leaving off the front panel you essentially do what a front fan does - push/pull air through from the front of the case. With a front fan you put some pressure behind it to help it move through the case. The idea is the front fan pushes air into the box while the power supply fan and/or back fan pull it out. You want to keep the air moving through the case, across the boards, etc and keep it's velocity up. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans
I don't leave the whole front panel off, just the blank in front of the disk that I want to cool. A front fan would push air in and would to work against what the fans in the rear are trying to do, create a partial vacuum in the case. The fans in the back of the case still move the same amount of air out, but the fan in the front doesn't really do any good and works against the partial vacuum so less air actually goes over the drives in the manner that I described. I suppose a fan in front would help direct air to the motherboard and cards, if that was where your cooling problem was. But I never have anything there that needs that much cooling. The video card GPU and northbridge have fans, if they need one. So there's no particular reason to direct air to them, just get the heat out of the case, which the rear fans do. That's my reasoning, anyway. Steve Rose In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote: > By leaving off the front panel you essentially do what a > front fan does - push/pull air through from the front of > the case. With a front fan you put some pressure behind > it to help it move through the case. > > The idea is the front fan pushes air into the box while > the power supply fan and/or back fan pull it out. You > want to keep the air moving through the case, across the > boards, etc and keep it's velocity up. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans
By leaving off the front panel you essentially do what a front fan does - push/pull air through from the front of the case. With a front fan you put some pressure behind it to help it move through the case. The idea is the front fan pushes air into the box while the power supply fan and/or back fan pull it out. You want to keep the air moving through the case, across the boards, etc and keep it's velocity up. On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Stephen Rose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Actually, I disagree with this. In my experience, this doesn't really help and can even starve cooling in some cases. The problem is the front fan. It offsets the air that is being pulled out of the case from the rear fans (the power supply and any other fans you might have back there). Enlight cases, which are what I use, typically have a fan on the power supply and one in front, low in the case. I take the one in front and move it to a spot in the rear, just below the power supply where there is a cut out for it on these cases. Yours may not have a spot like that, but it's really good if it does. Now I have both the power supply fan and the fan in the back of the case pulling air out of the case, with no other fan trying to push air into the case from the front. This lets air come in through any holes you have in the case. Now you can use this air to cool specific things that need to be cooled, like disk drives. I arrange for each drive to have air pulled across it by this air. If you have a drive under the floppy, you can leave the spot between the drive and the floppy open and remove the plastic blank panel for it from the front cover. This lets air come in right over that drive and cool it. For my servers, I follow a similar strategy for drives in the 5.25 inch slots. Again, I leave the plastic blank panel off the front cover to let air get at the drive if I put one there. Since I can reach in an put my hand on the drive, I can check to make sure that things are running cool. This works very well. Now if I had a fan in the front pushing air in, it would starve the air coming over the disks. Steve Rose In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote: Most cases have the one in front pulling it into the case while the one in back pulls it out. Try that and make sure air can flow through your case. On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:26:38 +0200 mathieu perrenoud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: After my yesterday's thread, I decided to buy one fan. When I saw the price, I buyed two instead. But now, I don't know how to place them in the case. The boxes of the fans says that I should place them at the rear of the case and make sure they pull air from the inside toward the outside. Yesterday, you told me that it could be better to pull air inside and the guy at the shop told me that on his own box he had a fan in front pulling air inside and one at the rear blowing air outside. I'm at a complete loss here. Should I follow box's instructions? or the guy's advice. I think I'll first try with one in the front and one in the back. If it's stupid or even dangerous, any quick warning would be greatly appreciated. -- mathieu -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans
Actually, I disagree with this. In my experience, this doesn't really help and can even starve cooling in some cases. The problem is the front fan. It offsets the air that is being pulled out of the case from the rear fans (the power supply and any other fans you might have back there). Enlight cases, which are what I use, typically have a fan on the power supply and one in front, low in the case. I take the one in front and move it to a spot in the rear, just below the power supply where there is a cut out for it on these cases. Yours may not have a spot like that, but it's really good if it does. Now I have both the power supply fan and the fan in the back of the case pulling air out of the case, with no other fan trying to push air into the case from the front. This lets air come in through any holes you have in the case. Now you can use this air to cool specific things that need to be cooled, like disk drives. I arrange for each drive to have air pulled across it by this air. If you have a drive under the floppy, you can leave the spot between the drive and the floppy open and remove the plastic blank panel for it from the front cover. This lets air come in right over that drive and cool it. For my servers, I follow a similar strategy for drives in the 5.25 inch slots. Again, I leave the plastic blank panel off the front cover to let air get at the drive if I put one there. Since I can reach in an put my hand on the drive, I can check to make sure that things are running cool. This works very well. Now if I had a fan in the front pushing air in, it would starve the air coming over the disks. Steve Rose In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote: > Most cases have the one in front pulling it into the case > while the one in back pulls it out. Try that and make > sure air can flow through your case. > > On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:26:38 +0200 > mathieu perrenoud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>After my yesterday's thread, I decided to buy one fan. >>When I saw the price, I >>buyed two instead. But now, I don't know how to place >>them in the case. >>The boxes of the fans says that I should place them at >>the rear of the case >>and make sure they pull air from the inside toward the >>outside. Yesterday, >>you told me that it could be better to pull air inside >>and the guy at the >>shop told me that on his own box he had a fan in front >>pulling air inside and >>one at the rear blowing air outside. >>I'm at a complete loss here. Should I follow box's >>instructions? or the guy's >>advice. >>I think I'll first try with one in the front and one in >>the back. If it's >>stupid or even dangerous, any quick warning would be >>greatly appreciated. >>-- >>mathieu >> >>-- >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list >> > > > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans (was: strange informations from lm-sensors)
Not necessarily "cheap", but certainly not designed for modern systems. If the case was intented for a P2 or AMD-K6, a heatsink on the processor and a fan on the power supply was, in most cases sufficient. Since I'm sure that you have a fan in your power supply that blows out, if you can somehow mount a fan ant the lower front of your case below the drive bays, you should see some improvement in temperature. On Friday 26 September 2003 09:19 am, Scharf Yuval wrote: > Hi, > > Does you boxes really give you all this flexibility? > I look at my box and see no place to add fans. > Does it in mean that my box is a very cheap one? > > Happy new year, > Yuval Scharf > > On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > However you do it, you will want to have an air-flow that goes > > _through_ your box, traditionally _from_ the front side _to_ the > > back side. > > > > Do _not_ take in air at the same side as you blow out warm air > > since that will increase the risk of bringing in already heated > > air, whereas you want to bring in air as cold as possible. > > > > You will also want to, if ever possible, bring in air lower down > > on your box and blow it out higher up, since warm air raises. > > > > > > Biker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mathieu perrenoud > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ch> cc: (bcc: > > Gustav Schaffter/CDS/CG/CAPITAL) Subject: [gentoo-user] > > installing fans (was: strange informations from lm-sensors) > > 26-09-2003 14:26 > > Please respond to > > gentoo-user > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After my yesterday's thread, I decided to buy one fan. WhenI saw > > the price, I > > buyed two instead. But now, I don't know how to place them in the > > case. The boxes of the fans says that I should place them at the > > rear of the case > > > > and make sure they pull air from the inside toward the outside. > > Yesterday, you told me that it could be better to pull air inside > > and the guy at the shop told me that on his own box he had a fan > > in front pulling air inside and > > one at the rear blowing air outside. > > I'm at a complete loss here. Should I follow box's instructions? > > orthe guy's > > advice. > > I think I'll first try with one in the front and one in the back. > > If it's stupid or even dangerous, any quick warning would be > > greatly appreciated. -- > > mathieu > > > > -- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- Regards, Ernie 100% Microsoft and Intel free -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans (was: strange informations from lm-sensors)
My post was meant to be generic. I don't know the details of his box, neither do I know yours. Many PC cabinets have room for at least one supplemental fan, sometimes more. Not all do, though. Most versions on mini-, mid- or full-size towers do, whereas some desktop size cabinets may lack this feature. (Even though I have the space in most of my desktop cabinets.) If you're inn to building your own PCs from spare parts, you may want to check this before buying a cabinet. Thinking a little bit about the air-flow, plus adding some common sense, can sometimes make a difference when building a box. So read my post as in "Generally speaking, these are considered good advices". Biker > Hi, > Does you boxes really give you all this flexibility? > I look at my box and see no place to add fans. > Does it in mean that my box is a very cheap one? > Happy new year, > Yuval Scharf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans (was: strange informations from lm-sensors)
Hi, Does you boxes really give you all this flexibility? I look at my box and see no place to add fans. Does it in mean that my box is a very cheap one? Happy new year, Yuval Scharf On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > However you do it, you will want to have an air-flow that goes _through_ > your box, traditionally _from_ the front side _to_ the back side. > > Do _not_ take in air at the same side as you blow out warm air since that > will increase the risk of bringing in already heated air, whereas you want > to bring in air as cold as possible. > > You will also want to, if ever possible, bring in air lower down on your > box and blow it out higher up, since warm air raises. > > > Biker > > > > > > > mathieu perrenoud > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ch> cc: (bcc: Gustav > Schaffter/CDS/CG/CAPITAL) > Subject: [gentoo-user] installing fans > (was: strange informations from lm-sensors) > 26-09-2003 14:26 > Please respond to > gentoo-user > > > > > > > After my yesterday's thread, I decided to buy one fan. WhenI saw the > price, I > buyed two instead. But now, I don't know how to place them in the case. > The boxes of the fans says that I should place them at the rear of the case > > and make sure they pull air from the inside toward the outside. Yesterday, > you told me that it could be better to pull air inside and the guy at the > shop told me that on his own box he had a fan in front pulling air inside > and > one at the rear blowing air outside. > I'm at a complete loss here. Should I follow box's instructions? orthe > guy's > advice. > I think I'll first try with one in the front and one in the back. If it's > stupid or even dangerous, any quick warning would be greatly appreciated. > -- > mathieu > > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > > > > > > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans (was: strange informations from lm-sensors)
However you do it, you will want to have an air-flow that goes _through_ your box, traditionally _from_ the front side _to_ the back side. Do _not_ take in air at the same side as you blow out warm air since that will increase the risk of bringing in already heated air, whereas you want to bring in air as cold as possible. You will also want to, if ever possible, bring in air lower down on your box and blow it out higher up, since warm air raises. Biker mathieu perrenoud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ch> cc: (bcc: Gustav Schaffter/CDS/CG/CAPITAL) Subject: [gentoo-user] installing fans (was: strange informations from lm-sensors) 26-09-2003 14:26 Please respond to gentoo-user After my yesterday's thread, I decided to buy one fan. When I saw the price, I buyed two instead. But now, I don't know how to place them in the case. The boxes of the fans says that I should place them at the rear of the case and make sure they pull air from the inside toward the outside. Yesterday, you told me that it could be better to pull air inside and the guy at the shop told me that on his own box he had a fan in front pulling air inside and one at the rear blowing air outside. I'm at a complete loss here. Should I follow box's instructions? or the guy's advice. I think I'll first try with one in the front and one in the back. If it's stupid or even dangerous, any quick warning would be greatly appreciated. -- mathieu -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans (was: strange informations from lm-sensors)
You're welcome. Check the temperature before and after and let us know what happens. On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:36:02 +0200 mathieu perrenoud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Friday 26 September 2003 02:31 pm, brett holcomb wrote: Most cases have the one in front pulling it into the case while the one in back pulls it out. Try that and make sure air can flow through your case. faster than light answer. thanks brett -- mathieu -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans (was: strange informations from lm-sensors)
> shop told me that on his own box he had a fan in front pulling air inside and one at > the rear blowing air outside. I do that. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans (was: strange informations from lm-sensors)
On Friday 26 September 2003 02:31 pm, brett holcomb wrote: > Most cases have the one in front pulling it into the case > while the one in back pulls it out. Try that and make > sure air can flow through your case. faster than light answer. thanks brett -- mathieu -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] installing fans (was: strange informations from lm-sensors)
Most cases have the one in front pulling it into the case while the one in back pulls it out. Try that and make sure air can flow through your case. On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:26:38 +0200 mathieu perrenoud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: After my yesterday's thread, I decided to buy one fan. When I saw the price, I buyed two instead. But now, I don't know how to place them in the case. The boxes of the fans says that I should place them at the rear of the case and make sure they pull air from the inside toward the outside. Yesterday, you told me that it could be better to pull air inside and the guy at the shop told me that on his own box he had a fan in front pulling air inside and one at the rear blowing air outside. I'm at a complete loss here. Should I follow box's instructions? or the guy's advice. I think I'll first try with one in the front and one in the back. If it's stupid or even dangerous, any quick warning would be greatly appreciated. -- mathieu -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] installing fans (was: strange informations from lm-sensors)
After my yesterday's thread, I decided to buy one fan. When I saw the price, I buyed two instead. But now, I don't know how to place them in the case. The boxes of the fans says that I should place them at the rear of the case and make sure they pull air from the inside toward the outside. Yesterday, you told me that it could be better to pull air inside and the guy at the shop told me that on his own box he had a fan in front pulling air inside and one at the rear blowing air outside. I'm at a complete loss here. Should I follow box's instructions? or the guy's advice. I think I'll first try with one in the front and one in the back. If it's stupid or even dangerous, any quick warning would be greatly appreciated. -- mathieu -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
