RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Lee & Peggy Wenk]

I'll respond to this, as these are my students. Yes, my students ARE hired
at our hospital, AND with the 90 day probation, same as outside candidates.

The difference is that, our department has already been working with the HT
students for 7 months, and the HTL students for 11 months. 5 days a week, 8
hours a day. Everyone in the labs has been working with the students, and
knows the students, and knows their knowledge and ability and personality
and attitude. When there is an opening, the techs get a say in which student
they want to hire and work with. Any program graduate hired in our labs is
under the 90 day probabation, but basically they have already been through a
7 and 11 month "probation" as a student. We would still fire a graduate new
hire during their 90 day probation. However, while they were students in our
program, we had already gotten rid of students who did not learn well
enough, or couldn't do the procedures, and, if there was an attitude
problem, it either got settled, or they left. So by the time a student
graduates and gets hired by our lab, there are very few suprises.

If we are hiring someone from the outside, we don't know their knowledge,
ability, personality and attitude. We don't know them. We don't know if how
they will fit into our lab and with everyone else in the lab. And we haven't
been assessing them for the previous 7 and 11 months. So the 90 days
probation time is even more important.

That's one of the reasons to have a School in your institution, or to be a
clinical affiliate for a college-based HT/HTL program. Or even one of the
on-line HT/HTL programs. You get to assess the students ahead of time, to
see if you want to hire them, to see if they are capable, to see if they
would be a good fit with your people. (Hint, hint - we need more programs,
and more clinical affiliates!)

Sharon - Please feel free to add anything else. I hope I'm not putting words
in your mouth. I'm speaking as the program director, not as the histology
lab supervisor. (disclaimer here)

Peggy A. Wenk, HTL(ASCP)SLS
Beaumont Hospital
Royal Oak, MI 48073

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Podawiltz,
Thomas
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:11 PM
To: Sharon Scalise; Bill O'Donnell; Esther Peters
Cc: Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

Based on what you just said, the students that come from your school do not
have to do a 90 probationary period while someone you hire from the outside
does? Man, could I have fun from a HR perspective on unequal treatment of
new hires.


Tom Podawiltz, HT (ASCP)
Histology Section Head/Laboratory Safety Officer LRGHealthcare
603-524-3211 ext: 3220

From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sharon Scalise
[sscal...@beaumonthospitals.com]
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 7:00 PM
To: Bill O'Donnell; Esther Peters
Cc: Histonet
Subject: Re: [Histonet] Practical Exam

It is up to each individual institution to "test" a new hire for their
competency.  We are lucky to have both an HT and HTL program at our hospital
so when we hire a graduating student we already know their work habits and
skill level.  If I do hire someone from the outside, they have 90 days that
they are in a probationary period.  If during this 90 day period they have
not proven their ability to complete the required work according to our
standards, they could be let go or I have the option to extend the
probationary period.  Whether they have completed a practical exam or not,
they still need to prove they are competent after they are hired.
We have had to hire from the outside (yes it is a pain going through this
process) and you hope that your new hire is as competent as they claim to
be.  But in the end you will be the one stuck with an incompetent employee
if you don't "test" them and catch it before their probationary period ends.
Whether or not they have taken a practical exam really does not matter in
the end, almost anyone can redo a stain enough times to get it right.  The
real question is, can they do it right on a daily basis and in a timely
manner?

Sharon E. Scalise, HTL (ASCP)
Histology Supervisor
William Beaumont Hospital
Royal Oak, MI 48073
248 898-5981
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
THIS MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL.  
This e-mail message and any attachments are proprietary and confidential
information intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If
you are not the intended recipient, you may not print,distribute, or copy
this message or any attachments.  If you have received this communication in
error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message and
any attachments from your computer. Any views or opinions expr

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Lee & Peggy Wenk]

Long answer - skip if not interested. Am responding to several (many)
emails, not just to Rene's.

Yes - that was 2 of the reasons (cheating and cost)that the practical exam
was dropped. Please realize that I was not on the committee when the
decision was made, but afterwards, I talked with ASCP Board of Registry, and
with many of the people on the ASCP BOR Histotechnology Committee (of which
all of the histotechs are very involved with NSH), and with the NSH
representative on the Committee.

ASCP could not guarantee that people were doing their own work. I have
talked with people who complained to me about other people in their lab -
they were having other people do their sectioning and/or staining. Sometimes
it was the supervisor doing this, to make certain their "tech" passed the
practical. Sometimes it was other techs, sometimes just to help out,
sometimes as ordered by the supervisor or pathologist. I had people call me
about this, and approach me at NSH about this, because they were concerned
about the cheating. However, they did not want to call ASCP about it, and it
would't do any good if I called ASCP. Usually the people did not tell me
their name, city, state, or hospital, nor did they tell me the name of the
candidate or the people involved in the cheating.

And yes, there was a cost factor. Histotechs, if you remember, ended up
paying the same exam fee at medtech, cytotechs, etc. PLUS an additional cost
($75 if I remember) to help cover some of the cost of the practical. The key
word being SOME. So for every HT and HTL exam candidate, ASCP lost money.

There were also other factors, such as:
- Automation - Most people were doing their H&E on automated machines. Doing
special stains on automated machines.  Using automated coverslippers.
Automated labelers. So it was the machine-work that was being graded.
- Better microtomes and blades - It became very infrequent that someone
turned in a slide set that had horrible knife lines or was cut too thick.
- Kits and commercial stains - very few people are making their own
hematoxylin or eosin, or most of the special stains. Regardless of whether
they are staining by hand or on machine, very few people make stains
anymore. So the grade was on commercial solutions, not solutions that the
candidates made.

As a result, most candidates could "do" the stain, and make a fairly good
section - because of all the automation and kits. In fact, 
- from 2001-2004, 70-76% of HT candidates (High school and associate degree
routes) could pass the practical, but only 50-53% could pass the written. 
- When the high school route was dropped, 2005-2007, 90-96% of the candidate
could pass the practical, and 55-58% could pass the written (still some high
school routes who had failed in 2004 but still had some additional chances
to retake the exam). That's 90% could DO the sectioning and the staining!
That wasn't the deciding factor in passing the exam! It was the written
part.
- Last year, in 2008, everyone taking the HT exam had an associate degree,
and there was no practical, and 64% of candidates passed the written. So the
exam is the same, but more people are passing because they have the biology
and chemistry background behind them.

This therefore lead to the primary reason for dropping the practical exam.
The written/computer exam was the determining factor in whether someone
passed or not. The practical exam was NOT the determining factor. There are
4 ways that people passed/failed the written and practical exams.
1. passed both 
2. failed both
3. passed written, failed practical
4. failed written, passed practical

At the time of the decision to drop the practical, about 50% of the
applicants passed both parts (#1). That means that the other 50% failed
either the written, or the practical, or both.

If they knew their theory fairly well, and could troubleshoot based on the
theory, they tended pass both the written and the practical (because they
knew what the stain was supposed to look like, and could figure out how to
manipulate the stain to make it work right). That's #1. That was 50% of the
people. 

It was actually very rare that #3 happened, where they would pass the
written (knew the theory) and yet fail the practical (couldn't do the
sectioning/staining).

If they didn't know their theory, and didn't pass the written, they also
tended to not pass the practical. That's #2.

That leaves #4, where they could DO the sectioning and DO the stain, so they
passed the practical. However, they didn't know the theory of WHY or HOW
anything worked, and therefore didn't know how to fix it, and therefore
failed the written. There were a fair number of these people. But do we, as
a profession, want people who can cut and stain when everything is working
right, but don't know what "right" is supposed to look like, and therefore
don't know when it isn't right, and definitely don't know how to fix it.

So, out of these scenarios, #1 (passed both) & #2 (failed both) had the
w

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Podawiltz, Thomas]

Based on what you just said, the students that come from your school do not 
have to do a 90 probationary period while someone you hire from the outside 
does? Man, could I have fun from a HR perspective on unequal treatment of new 
hires.


Tom Podawiltz, HT (ASCP)
Histology Section Head/Laboratory Safety Officer
LRGHealthcare
603-524-3211 ext: 3220

From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sharon Scalise 
[sscal...@beaumonthospitals.com]
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 7:00 PM
To: Bill O'Donnell; Esther Peters
Cc: Histonet
Subject: Re: [Histonet] Practical Exam

It is up to each individual institution to "test" a new hire for their 
competency.  We are lucky to have both an HT and HTL program at our hospital so 
when we hire a graduating student we already know their work habits and skill 
level.  If I do hire someone from the outside, they have 90 days that they are 
in a probationary period.  If during this 90 day period they have not proven 
their ability to complete the required work according to our standards, they 
could be let go or I have the option to extend the probationary period.  
Whether they have completed a practical exam or not, they still need to prove 
they are competent after they are hired.
We have had to hire from the outside (yes it is a pain going through this 
process) and you hope that your new hire is as competent as they claim to be.  
But in the end you will be the one stuck with an incompetent employee if you 
don't "test" them and catch it before their probationary period ends.  Whether 
or not they have taken a practical exam really does not matter in the end, 
almost anyone can redo a stain enough times to get it right.  The real question 
is, can they do it right on a daily basis and in a timely manner?

Sharon E. Scalise, HTL (ASCP)
Histology Supervisor
William Beaumont Hospital
Royal Oak, MI 48073
248 898-5981
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
THIS MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL.  
This e-mail message and any attachments are proprietary and confidential 
information intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If you 
are not the intended recipient, you may not print,distribute, or copy this 
message or any attachments.  If you have received this communication in error, 
please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message and any 
attachments from your computer. Any views or opinions expressed are solely 
those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of LRGHealthcare.


___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

Re: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Sharon Scalise]

It is up to each individual institution to "test" a new hire for their 
competency.  We are lucky to have both an HT and HTL program at our hospital so 
when we hire a graduating student we already know their work habits and skill 
level.  If I do hire someone from the outside, they have 90 days that they are 
in a probationary period.  If during this 90 day period they have not proven 
their ability to complete the required work according to our standards, they 
could be let go or I have the option to extend the probationary period.  
Whether they have completed a practical exam or not, they still need to prove 
they are competent after they are hired.  
We have had to hire from the outside (yes it is a pain going through this 
process) and you hope that your new hire is as competent as they claim to be.  
But in the end you will be the one stuck with an incompetent employee if you 
don't "test" them and catch it before their probationary period ends.  Whether 
or not they have taken a practical exam really does not matter in the end, 
almost anyone can redo a stain enough times to get it right.  The real question 
is, can they do it right on a daily basis and in a timely manner?
 
Sharon E. Scalise, HTL (ASCP)
Histology Supervisor
William Beaumont Hospital
Royal Oak, MI 48073
248 898-5981
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

Re: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Esther Peters]

As one who first came into histology by working with the lowest phyla, 
and has continued to teach students the procedures for whatever critter 
they are working on, it seems to me that the basics and criteria for 
producing a properly embedded, sectioned, and stained H&E tissue sample 
are the same for all. Special stains might not always work exactly the 
same on different organisms (especially those from a marine environment 
vs. terrestrial) or demonstrate the same features (e.g., invertebrates 
lack myelin, fish erythrocytes are nucleated), but understanding whether 
someone can produce a good slide using any organism is the same. Indeed, 
those who work on insects, crustaceans, bivalves, and sponges, would 
welcome having human tissue to section! And those critters provide ample 
training in troubleshooting in histology! (My mentor at the marine 
research lab sacrificed a white rabbit for another student to work on 
who wanted to get the HT certification.) Just as I am sure not every 
piece of appendix looks entirely the same and processes exactly the 
same, there needs to be some standards but also some acceptance of 
diversity?


Esther Peters, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
George Mason University

O'Donnell, Bill wrote:
It is interesting that this topic of OJT/School/Registered/Non-registered resurfaces every so often, and that it still evokes so many responses. 


Time to contribute a new thought (at least new to me, you know, like buying 
underwear at the Goodwill) (Sorry, a little Friday humor)

Perhaps the practical was too narrow in its scope. It was certainly skewed in 
the direction of those in clinical work. Asking for human tissues when you had 
no recourse to them could, force a persons hand, to reach out for help in 
procuring tissues. That is not cheating. I don't think anyone here would call 
it that either. That is resourcefulness.  I was lucky, I guess, in retrospect, 
that I worked in a clinical lab with plenty of tissues and resources to help me 
get it done. It never even dawned on me that other techs wouldn't have the same 
resources.

That's not my point.

Those who choose to cheat will always be around. Taking a strong moral stand 
against it, that's a good thing, but also a given stance because we all learned 
from our first grade teacher that we aren't supposed to cheat. I'm certain if 
cheating could be proven in a practical exam, that person(s) would not have 
been certified. Tough to prove though, isn't it. I'm not defending cheating, 
but I still hold it was a weak reason to pull the practical.

OK, that's not really my point either - sorry, here it comes..

Now, I'm opening a whole new sub-topic. I offer my apologies for those who have 
been trying to skip over all these registry posts :}

What I'm hearing is a general desire to have the practical returned. Great, I'm all for it. But perhaps we need to look at the nature of the practical. 

Should there be a different one for those in veterinary histology than the one for clinical (human tissues) histologists? Should there be one that is aimed at those who do research work? 
It would in my opinion be logical and certainly fair-minded. 
The practical should be to show the you can do the work you are currently doing, albeit in a standardized way. That is everyones PAS on an appendix should turn out to the same standard for the exam. But is it fair to ask someone, especially in this economy, to do things for their practical, that are removed from their practice? 

Another sub-point: 


If I take my practical while working clinical and later take a job doing 
veterinary work, granted, I might have the very basic of skills down, but, as 
those of you in vet work can attest, it's a whole 'nother animal.(no pun 
intendedwell, actually it was)

But the same would be true of someone coming into clinical from veterinary. 


Back to the main point:

It would mean two or more sets of reviewers for the practical portion. 
Logistically this would add a layer of complication in getting started, but it 
is not insurmountable.

If cheating can be arrested, or at least made less attractive, by something 
like this, and it might actually return the practical (because the cost issue 
is a non-issue, as it can be made up in the fees applied), it should at least 
be given a few seconds thought.

I want to take just a little more of your time to commend all of those techs 
who did have to beg and borrow tissues, reagents and textbooks to finish and 
pass the registry practical. It shows a type of moxie we don't always see 
everyday. But it doesn't need to be that way if the practical is ever 
re-established.

Now as to cheating and the general moral downfall of our society..I don't 
want to go there except to say that, no, I don't want to go there either.

Just a few more thoughts (just thoughts and nothing more) on the subject:

Should there be both a practical and written exam for each type 
human/non-human/research/pharmaceutical/f

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[O'Donnell, Bill]

It is interesting that this topic of OJT/School/Registered/Non-registered 
resurfaces every so often, and that it still evokes so many responses. 

Time to contribute a new thought (at least new to me, you know, like buying 
underwear at the Goodwill) (Sorry, a little Friday humor)

Perhaps the practical was too narrow in its scope. It was certainly skewed in 
the direction of those in clinical work. Asking for human tissues when you had 
no recourse to them could, force a persons hand, to reach out for help in 
procuring tissues. That is not cheating. I don't think anyone here would call 
it that either. That is resourcefulness.  I was lucky, I guess, in retrospect, 
that I worked in a clinical lab with plenty of tissues and resources to help me 
get it done. It never even dawned on me that other techs wouldn't have the same 
resources.

That's not my point.

Those who choose to cheat will always be around. Taking a strong moral stand 
against it, that's a good thing, but also a given stance because we all learned 
from our first grade teacher that we aren't supposed to cheat. I'm certain if 
cheating could be proven in a practical exam, that person(s) would not have 
been certified. Tough to prove though, isn't it. I'm not defending cheating, 
but I still hold it was a weak reason to pull the practical.

OK, that's not really my point either - sorry, here it comes..

Now, I'm opening a whole new sub-topic. I offer my apologies for those who have 
been trying to skip over all these registry posts :}

What I'm hearing is a general desire to have the practical returned. Great, I'm 
all for it. But perhaps we need to look at the nature of the practical. 

Should there be a different one for those in veterinary histology than the one 
for clinical (human tissues) histologists? Should there be one that is aimed at 
those who do research work? 
It would in my opinion be logical and certainly fair-minded. 
The practical should be to show the you can do the work you are currently 
doing, albeit in a standardized way. That is everyones PAS on an appendix 
should turn out to the same standard for the exam. But is it fair to ask 
someone, especially in this economy, to do things for their practical, that are 
removed from their practice? 

Another sub-point: 

If I take my practical while working clinical and later take a job doing 
veterinary work, granted, I might have the very basic of skills down, but, as 
those of you in vet work can attest, it's a whole 'nother animal.(no pun 
intendedwell, actually it was)

But the same would be true of someone coming into clinical from veterinary. 

Back to the main point:

It would mean two or more sets of reviewers for the practical portion. 
Logistically this would add a layer of complication in getting started, but it 
is not insurmountable.

If cheating can be arrested, or at least made less attractive, by something 
like this, and it might actually return the practical (because the cost issue 
is a non-issue, as it can be made up in the fees applied), it should at least 
be given a few seconds thought.

I want to take just a little more of your time to commend all of those techs 
who did have to beg and borrow tissues, reagents and textbooks to finish and 
pass the registry practical. It shows a type of moxie we don't always see 
everyday. But it doesn't need to be that way if the practical is ever 
re-established.

Now as to cheating and the general moral downfall of our society..I don't 
want to go there except to say that, no, I don't want to go there either.

Just a few more thoughts (just thoughts and nothing more) on the subject:

Should there be both a practical and written exam for each type 
human/non-human/research/pharmaceutical/food science of histology?

Should one be recertified when changing types of histology jobs?

Do blondes really have more fun?


Have a grand weekend, and thanks for plowing through an old-man's post. Next 
one will be shorter. Maybe just a grunt or guff-fa

William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC 
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847 



-Original Message-
From: Pamela Marcum [mailto:pmar...@vet.upenn.edu] 
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 3:11 PM
To: 'Podawiltz, Thomas'; rjbu...@yahoo.com; 'Histonet'; O'Donnell, Bill
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

Hi,

This has nothing to do with Bill or you Tom however, when the practical was 
still being given people did come on histonet and ask for tissue in blocks and 
help finishing the exam.  It was not a good thing and showed that some people 
were not able to acquire the tissues needed or were not looking for them.  
Since I saw this several times and many of us were upset about it, I can say at 
least a few people did not do their own if they could avoid it.
I don't remember names or locations so please don't ask for them.  

Pamela A Marcum
University of Pennsylvania
School of Veterinary Medicine
Comparative Orthopedic

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[jstaruk]

I have not been following this discussion but I scanned this one and
remember receiving orders from private people to section certain tissues and
stain them using a variety of staining procedures.  The tissues and stains
were very similar to the ones I had to submit when I took my practical. I
never thought of it until now, I probably aided and abetted a few of these
"cheaters" during my career!

Jim

___
James E. Staruk HT(ASCP)
 www.masshistology.com
   www.nehorselabs.com
 
 

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of O'Donnell,
Bill
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 4:17 PM
To: rjbu...@yahoo.com; Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

Rene,
 
Ouch!!!  
 
Lighten up!
 
I never accepted or condoned cheating!  Of course it is immoral! Only a
sociopath would honestly believe otherwise.I never used the words you quoted
me as saying. 
 
Cheating was one of the two reasons (cost being the other) that you yourself
stated was a motive for ASCP dropping the practical. 
 
Maybe I wasn't totally clear.
 
What I proposed was that cheating was never at the scale or magnitude that
it would be a viable reason for ASCP to dismiss the practical exam. I'm sure
it occasionally occured, but I also believe in the basic goodness of human
beings, so I'm pretty sure it was miniscule in proportion to those who
completed their practicals in dignity and with honesty. My point is that it
was not a reasonable justification to end the practical. If you have
concrete proof, fine, I'd love to see it. If it is your opinion, fine,
everyone has them, but don't confuse them.
 
BTW "moral terpitude" is a redundant phrase, though an interesting choice.
(Smile, Reneno more flames. I didn't deserve it and besides...it's
Friday and I don't have the energy to joust. I'll be better rested on
Monday).
 
William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC 
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847 



From: Rene J Buesa [mailto:rjbu...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:37 PM
To: Histonet; O'Donnell, Bill
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam


Bill:
In my time when you accepted somebody else doing YOUR job and YOU being
remunerated or accredited for it was called CHEATING and that is a moral
turpitude issue, and really a problem, not as you say that was "not much of
a problem"!.
René J.

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, O'Donnell, Bill 
wrote:


From: O'Donnell, Bill 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Histonet" 
Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 11:00 AM


If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the
practical
exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to
apply would
cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of
people doing
other peoples practicals. 

I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I
emphasize
"might" and add "but likely did not") have occurred   sporadically
in all the years prior.

I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear
from
someone who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this
practicum.

However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly
deteriorated.

William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC 
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847 


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene
J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical
part of the
examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if
the person
sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to
gather the
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the
practical
and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R 
wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" ,
"Histonet" 
Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the
ultimate test
of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic 

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[O'Donnell, Bill]

Rene,
 
Ouch!!!  
 
Lighten up!
 
I never accepted or condoned cheating!  Of course it is immoral! Only a 
sociopath would honestly believe otherwise.I never used the words you quoted me 
as saying. 
 
Cheating was one of the two reasons (cost being the other) that you yourself 
stated was a motive for ASCP dropping the practical. 
 
Maybe I wasn't totally clear.
 
What I proposed was that cheating was never at the scale or magnitude that it 
would be a viable reason for ASCP to dismiss the practical exam. I'm sure it 
occasionally occured, but I also believe in the basic goodness of human beings, 
so I'm pretty sure it was miniscule in proportion to those who completed their 
practicals in dignity and with honesty. My point is that it was not a 
reasonable justification to end the practical. If you have concrete proof, 
fine, I'd love to see it. If it is your opinion, fine, everyone has them, but 
don't confuse them.
 
BTW "moral terpitude" is a redundant phrase, though an interesting choice. 
(Smile, Reneno more flames. I didn't deserve it and besides...it's 
Friday and I don't have the energy to joust. I'll be better rested on Monday).
 
William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC 
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847 



From: Rene J Buesa [mailto:rjbu...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:37 PM
To: Histonet; O'Donnell, Bill
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam


Bill:
In my time when you accepted somebody else doing YOUR job and YOU being 
remunerated or accredited for it was called CHEATING and that is a moral 
turpitude issue, and really a problem, not as you say that was "not much of a 
problem"!.
René J.

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, O'Donnell, Bill  wrote:


From: O'Donnell, Bill 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Histonet" 
Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 11:00 AM


If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the 
practical
exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to apply 
would
cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of people 
doing
other peoples practicals. 

I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I emphasize
"might" and add "but likely did not") have occurred   sporadically in 
all the years prior.

I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear from
someone who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this 
practicum.

However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly 
deteriorated.

William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC 
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847 


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J 
Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part 
of the
examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the 
person
sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather 
the
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the 
practical
and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R 
wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" ,
"Histonet" 
Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the 
ultimate test
of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow 
the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a 
written
examination. 
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am 
concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical 
test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry 


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Pamela Marcum]

Hi,

This has nothing to do with Bill or you Tom however, when the practical was
still being given people did come on histonet and ask for tissue in blocks
and help finishing the exam.  It was not a good thing and showed that some
people were not able to acquire the tissues needed or were not looking for
them.  Since I saw this several times and many of us were upset about it, I
can say at least a few people did not do their own if they could avoid it.
I don't remember names or locations so please don't ask for them.  

Pamela A Marcum
University of Pennsylvania 
School of Veterinary Medicine
Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL)
382 W Street Rd
Kennett Square PA 19438
610-925-6278


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Podawiltz,
Thomas
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 3:57 PM
To: rjbu...@yahoo.com; Histonet; O'Donnell, Bill
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

Rene, I can't and won't put words into Bill's mouth, especially since we
have known each other for almost 30 years, but I think his question was, was
there really a problem with  people turning in someone else's work as their
own. Where are the facts that it even happen?


Tom Podawiltz, HT (ASCP)
Histology Section Head/Laboratory Safety Officer
LRGHealthcare
603-524-3211 ext: 3220

From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
[rjbu...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 3:36 PM
To: Histonet; O'Donnell, Bill
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

Bill:
In my time when you accepted somebody else doing YOUR job and YOU being
remunerated or accredited for it was called CHEATING and that is a moral
turpitude issue, and really a problem, not as you say that was "not much of
a problem"!.
René J.

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, O'Donnell, Bill 
wrote:

From: O'Donnell, Bill 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Histonet" 
Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 11:00 AM

If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the practical
exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to apply would
cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of people doing
other peoples practicals.

I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I emphasize
"might" and add "but likely did not") have occurred
sporadically in all the years prior.

I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear from
someone who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this
practicum.

However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly deteriorated.

William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of
the
examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the
person
sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the
practical
and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R 
wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" ,
"Histonet" 
Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate
test
of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a
written
examination.
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias
[vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to
whomever
signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist has ve

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Houston, Ronald]

In the UK, histotechs and med techs are considered equal and as Biomedical 
Scientists, which is what the profession in the US should be aiming for. 

This was accomplished by the governing body, the Institute of Biomedical 
Sciences, and the Unions coming together. 

 

Was it pretty? Absolutely not, and there was a lot of ill-feeling and distrust 
for a while - but it was accomplished and salaries and government, and indeed 
public recognition increased.

 

IBMS administers the examination, incredibly strict and extensive, and licences 
are administered by the Department of Health (if my memory serves me 
correctly). No licence - no work!

 

Practical examinations are (were, I've been away for 20+ years)) held 
regionally at large teaching hospitals, and were also strictly administered - 
that way there was no possible way of someone doing the work for a student.

 

The written examination for fellowship, also held regionally, comprises three 
parts; a two hour essay (from 4 topics), five short essays (~30 minutes each) 
and then a 3 hour multiple choice examination.

 

Barry may also remember prior to this, the specialist exam also included an 
oral examination as well as written and practical - that was really testing 
your knowledge

 

As I say, things may have changed recently, but laboratory staff in hospitals 
are still biomedical scientists, and much more highly respected than HTs over 
here. 

 

Far different from the US, but we need to get real and decide what the 
profession, not the ASCP, really wants. That can only come through the 
membership and the NSH

 

Ronnie Houston, MS HT(ASCP)QIHC FIBMS

Anatomic Pathology Manager

Nationwide Children's Hospital

700 Children's Drive

Columbus, OH 43205

(614) 722 5450

 

 

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rittman, Barry R
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:37 AM
To: Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

 

Rene

I have always regarded the mechanism of sending slides in to be a big flaw in 
the practical, it it did offer some standardization. cannot accept the cost 
logic.

The real question here is why is the ASCP running this exam at all?

I have great respect for the ASCP but is this organizations main goal to 
represent histotechs? The ASCP was not originally organized to look after our 
interests. I thought that the NSH and the individual state societies were 
instituted to do just that. In which case why is there not a standardized test 
that is administered by the NSH?

This can be done on a state level with individuals who are nationally certified 
.

Will this be more costly that the current system. Of course - but if histotechs 
wish for better recognition and pay I believe that this is the only path.

An alternate for appropriate salary and better conditions is unionizing. I know 
this has some disadvantages but lets face it with the national shortage of 
histotechs why haven't slaries and conditons improved dramatically, why are 
untrained people in some cases allowed to work in some positions?

I know that many who are .of by this continuing saga but I can only 
apologize because I feel strongly about this (and because I have more time 
following my semi retirement!!).

Barry

 

 



From: Rene J Buesa [rjbu...@yahoo.com]

Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM

To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R

Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

 

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of the 
examination:

1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the person 
sending the slides was the one who really made them, and

2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the 
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the practical 
and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).

René J.

 

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R  wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 

Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

To: "Victor Tobias" , "Histonet" 


Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

 

 

Victor

I cannot believe that you have said this.

Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate test

of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.

With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the

pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a written

examination.

Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the

technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual

laboratory.

Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,

useless.

What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test

that is administered by NSH.

I am not holding my breath that this will happen.

Barry

 

___

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Rene J Buesa]

Thomas:
That you will have to ask the BOR of the ASCP because that was one of their 2 
main reasons to stop administering that part of the certification.
If Bill meant what you say, it was very poorly presented.
René J.

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, Podawiltz, Thomas  wrote:

From: Podawiltz, Thomas 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "rjbu...@yahoo.com" , "Histonet" 
, "O'Donnell, Bill" 

Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 3:56 PM

Rene, I can't and won't put words into Bill's mouth, especially
since we have known each other for almost 30 years, but I think his question
was, was there really a problem with  people turning in someone else's work
as their own. Where are the facts that it even happen?


Tom Podawiltz, HT (ASCP)
Histology Section Head/Laboratory Safety Officer
LRGHealthcare
603-524-3211 ext: 3220

From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
[rjbu...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 3:36 PM
To: Histonet; O'Donnell, Bill
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

Bill:
In my time when you accepted somebody else doing YOUR job and YOU being
remunerated or accredited for it was called CHEATING and that is a moral
turpitude issue, and really a problem, not as you say that was "not much of
a problem"!.
René J.

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, O'Donnell, Bill
 wrote:

From: O'Donnell, Bill 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Histonet" 
Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 11:00 AM

If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the practical
exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to apply would
cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of people doing
other peoples practicals.

I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I emphasize
"might" and add "but likely did not") have occurred
sporadically in all the years prior.

I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear from
someone who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this practicum.

However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly deteriorated.

William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of the
examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the person
sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the practical
and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R 
wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" ,
"Histonet" 
Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate test
of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a written
examination.
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias
[vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to whomever
signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist has verified that
this student can cut and stain. Of course what is acceptable to one pathologist
may not be to another. Do they get tested in the art of troubleshooting. As
far as the schools go, they shouldn't be graduating anyone that can't
cut, stain and troubleshoot.
So I don't really see a problem with the absence of the practical. It is
Friday somewhere.

Victor

--
Victor Tobias
Clinical Applications Analyst
University of Washington Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room BB220
1959 NE Pacific
Seattle, WA 98195
vic...@pathology.washingto

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Podawiltz, Thomas]

Rene, I can't and won't put words into Bill's mouth, especially since we have 
known each other for almost 30 years, but I think his question was, was there 
really a problem with  people turning in someone else's work as their own. 
Where are the facts that it even happen?


Tom Podawiltz, HT (ASCP)
Histology Section Head/Laboratory Safety Officer
LRGHealthcare
603-524-3211 ext: 3220

From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa 
[rjbu...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 3:36 PM
To: Histonet; O'Donnell, Bill
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

Bill:
In my time when you accepted somebody else doing YOUR job and YOU being 
remunerated or accredited for it was called CHEATING and that is a moral 
turpitude issue, and really a problem, not as you say that was "not much of a 
problem"!.
René J.

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, O'Donnell, Bill  wrote:

From: O'Donnell, Bill 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Histonet" 
Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 11:00 AM

If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the practical
exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to apply would
cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of people doing
other peoples practicals.

I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I emphasize
"might" and add "but likely did not") have occurred
sporadically in all the years prior.

I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear from
someone who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this practicum.

However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly deteriorated.

William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of the
examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the person
sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the practical
and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R 
wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" ,
"Histonet" 
Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate test
of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a written
examination.
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias
[vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to whomever
signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist has verified that
this student can cut and stain. Of course what is acceptable to one pathologist
may not be to another. Do they get tested in the art of troubleshooting. As
far as the schools go, they shouldn't be graduating anyone that can't
cut, stain and troubleshoot.
So I don't really see a problem with the absence of the practical. It is
Friday somewhere.

Victor

--
Victor Tobias
Clinical Applications Analyst
University of Washington Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room BB220
1959 NE Pacific
Seattle, WA 98195
vic...@pathology.washington.edu
206-598-2792
206-598-7659 Fax
=
Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be contained
in this message. This information is meant only for the use of the intended
recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or if the message has been
addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute,
disseminate or otherwise use this tr

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Chiriboga, Luis]

I would like to add one thought to this and it comes from my experience in 
lobbying over the that last 3 years since licensure was mandated here in NY.

No one (other than histologist) is/are going to do or help us achieve what we 
want..we have to do it ourselves. If this means empowering NSH or using 
some other method or approach, so be it. Everyone else (non-histologist and in 
particular pathologist) have their own agenda and rightfully so.  It is up to 
us further our agenda/goals because we are our own "special interest group" 
and no one else/other organization will do it for us. 

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 3:33 PM
To: Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

Barry:
Don't tell me, those were the 2 arguments posed by the ASCP to stop 
administering the practical test. 
On the other hand I know that the NSH is not structurally able to take care of 
that function.
The other thing that you mention, UNIONIZING I strongly think would be a better 
avenue, although it will be an extremely difficult proposition.
René J.

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, Rittman, Barry R  wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Histonet" 
Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 10:36 AM

Rene
I have always regarded the mechanism of sending slides in to be a big flaw in
the practical, it it did offer some standardization. cannot accept the cost
logic.
The real question here is why is the ASCP running this exam at all?
I have great respect for the ASCP but is this organizations main goal to
represent histotechs? The ASCP was not originally organized to look after our
interests. I thought that the NSH and the individual state societies were
instituted to do just that. In which case why is there not a standardized test
that is administered by the NSH?
This can be done on a state level with individuals who are nationally certified
.
Will this be more costly that the current system. Of course - but if histotechs
wish for better recognition and pay I believe that this is the only path.
An alternate for appropriate salary and better conditions is unionizing. I know
this has some disadvantages but lets face it with the national shortage of
histotechs why haven't slaries and conditons improved dramatically, why are
untrained people in some cases allowed to work in some positions?
I know that many who are .of by this continuing saga but I can only
apologize because I feel strongly about this (and because I have more time
following my semi retirement!!).
Barry



From: Rene J Buesa [rjbu...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of the
examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the person
sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the practical
and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R 
wrote:
From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" ,
"Histonet" 
Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM


Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate test
of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a written
examination.
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias
[vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to
whomever signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist
has verified that this student can cut and stain. Of course what is
acceptable to one pathologist may not be to another. Do they get tested
in the art of troubleshooting.. As far as the schools go, they
shouldn't be graduating

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Rene J Buesa]

Ah, by the way!
The ASCP Board of Registry (BOR) is soon cease to exist because it will "merge" 
with the National Certification Agency for Laboratory Personnel (NCA).
Perhaps the new agency is the one to "lobby" to reinstate the practical test.
René J.

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, Swain, Frances L  wrote:

From: Swain, Frances L 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "O'Donnell, Bill" , "Histonet" 

Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 11:21 AM

There has been reference to someone else taking the practical exam instead of
the applicant.  Since the written exam has become a computer generated program
what is to stop someone from taking the exam for an applicant.  The reasons
given for dropping the exam are very shallow.  The idea that Victor and Barry
have been tauting are the best ones. The time has come that the NSH step in and
regulate us.  If the ASCP still wants to certify us then they can send a
representative to the different district to oversee and participate in the
scoring of the practical exam, etc.  It would be a lot cheaper that way.

Frances L. Swain HT(ASCP) A. A. S.
Special Procedures Technician
Department of Orthopaedic Surgery
Center for Orthopaedic Research
Barton Research Building 2R28
4301 West Markham Street
Little Rock AR 72205
(501) 686-8739 PHONE
(501) 686-8987 FAX
swainfranc...@uams.edu email

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of O'Donnell,
Bill
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:01 AM
To: Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the practical
exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to apply would
cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of people doing
other peoples practicals. 

I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I emphasize
"might" and add "but likely did not") have occurred
sporadically in all the years prior.

I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear from
someone who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this practicum.

However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly deteriorated.

William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC 
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847 


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of the
examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the person
sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the practical
and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R 
wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" ,
"Histonet" 
Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate test
of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a written
examination. 
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry 


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias
[vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to whomever
signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist has verified that
this student can cut and stain. Of course what is acceptable to one pathologist
may not be to another. Do they get tested in the art of troubleshooting.. As
far as the schools go, they shouldn't be graduating anyone that can't
cut, stain and troubleshoot.
So I don't really see a problem with the absence of the practical. It is
Friday somewhere.

Victor

--
Victor Tobias
Clinical Applications Analyst
University of Washington Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room B

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Rene J Buesa]

Bill:
In my time when you accepted somebody else doing YOUR job and YOU being 
remunerated or accredited for it was called CHEATING and that is a moral 
turpitude issue, and really a problem, not as you say that was "not much of a 
problem"!.
René J.

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, O'Donnell, Bill  wrote:

From: O'Donnell, Bill 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Histonet" 
Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 11:00 AM

If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the practical
exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to apply would
cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of people doing
other peoples practicals. 

I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I emphasize
"might" and add "but likely did not") have occurred
sporadically in all the years prior.

I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear from
someone who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this practicum.

However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly deteriorated.

William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC 
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847 


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of the
examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the person
sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the practical
and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R 
wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" ,
"Histonet" 
Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate test
of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a written
examination. 
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry 


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias
[vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to whomever
signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist has verified that
this student can cut and stain. Of course what is acceptable to one pathologist
may not be to another. Do they get tested in the art of troubleshooting.. As
far as the schools go, they shouldn't be graduating anyone that can't
cut, stain and troubleshoot.
So I don't really see a problem with the absence of the practical. It is
Friday somewhere.

Victor

--
Victor Tobias
Clinical Applications Analyst
University of Washington Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room BB220
1959 NE Pacific
Seattle, WA 98195
vic...@pathology.washington.edu
206-598-2792
206-598-7659 Fax
=
Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be contained
in this message. This information is meant only for the use of the intended
recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or if the message has been
addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute,
disseminate or otherwise use this transmission. Instead, please notify the
sender by reply e-mail, and then destroy all copies of the message and any
attachments.


___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet



  
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet


__

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Rene J Buesa]

Barry:
Don't tell me, those were the 2 arguments posed by the ASCP to stop 
administering the practical test. 
On the other hand I know that the NSH is not structurally able to take care of 
that function.
The other thing that you mention, UNIONIZING I strongly think would be a better 
avenue, although it will be an extremely difficult proposition.
René J.

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, Rittman, Barry R  wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Histonet" 
Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 10:36 AM

Rene
I have always regarded the mechanism of sending slides in to be a big flaw in
the practical, it it did offer some standardization. cannot accept the cost
logic.
The real question here is why is the ASCP running this exam at all?
I have great respect for the ASCP but is this organizations main goal to
represent histotechs? The ASCP was not originally organized to look after our
interests. I thought that the NSH and the individual state societies were
instituted to do just that. In which case why is there not a standardized test
that is administered by the NSH?
This can be done on a state level with individuals who are nationally certified
.
Will this be more costly that the current system. Of course - but if histotechs
wish for better recognition and pay I believe that this is the only path.
An alternate for appropriate salary and better conditions is unionizing. I know
this has some disadvantages but lets face it with the national shortage of
histotechs why haven't slaries and conditons improved dramatically, why are
untrained people in some cases allowed to work in some positions?
I know that many who are .of by this continuing saga but I can only
apologize because I feel strongly about this (and because I have more time
following my semi retirement!!).
Barry



From: Rene J Buesa [rjbu...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of the
examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the person
sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the practical
and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R 
wrote:
From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" ,
"Histonet" 
Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM


Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate test
of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a written
examination.
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias
[vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to
whomever signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist
has verified that this student can cut and stain. Of course what is
acceptable to one pathologist may not be to another. Do they get tested
in the art of troubleshooting.. As far as the schools go, they
shouldn't be graduating anyone that can't cut, stain and troubleshoot.
So I don't really see a problem with the absence of the practical. It is
Friday somewhere.

Victor

--
Victor Tobias
Clinical Applications Analyst
University of Washington Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room BB220
1959 NE Pacific
Seattle, WA 98195
vic...@pathology.washington.edu
206-598-2792
206-598-7659 Fax
=
Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be
contained in this message. This information is meant only for the use
of the intended recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or
if the message has been addressed to you in error, do not read,
disclose, reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this
transmission. Instead, please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and
then destroy all copies of the message and any attachmen

[Histonet] NSH

[maureen bukhari]

I agree with all those who say the NSH should be the governing body in the
USA for Histo-techs. It is a good organization, well-respected and tons of
information is provided to all of us belonging to it (Canada is Region lX).
In Canada we  Histo-techs are part of the Canadian Society of Medical
Laboratory Sciences. This gives us someone to answer to and a source of
professional pride and recognition world-wide. I have worked with American
Histology Techs in Saudi and UAE and feel a great kinship so I say NSH. You
deserve the best regulatory body.!

Looking forward to meeting some of the histonetters at the Georgia
Conference on March 20th weekend.

Maureen

Maureen Bukhari MLT (CSMLS)

Histology Technologist

Lab 2B26A

HRIC Building,

3330 Hospital Drive, NW,

University of Calgary

Faculty of Veterinary Medicine

Calgary, Alberta

T2N 4N1

Phone:403-210-6524

e-mail: mlbuk...@ucalgary.ca

 

 

___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Bernice Frederick]

You've got that right!!! We need the ASAP,ASAP (couldn't resist)
Bernice


Bernice Frederick HTL (ASCP)
Northwestern University
Pathology Core Facility
ECOGPCO-RL 
710 N Fairbanks Court
Olson 8-421
Chicago,IL 60611
312-503-3723


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Chiriboga,
Luis
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:53 AM
To: rjbu...@yahoo.com; Swain, Frances L; O'Donnell, Bill; Histonet; Pamela
Marcum
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

that's because its American society FOR CLINCAL pathologist, not
anatomic.(no offense intended) 

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 12:13 PM
To: 'Swain, Frances L'; 'O'Donnell, Bill'; 'Histonet'; Pamela Marcum
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

I can give you all 100:1 handicap that this will not happen, ever!
René J.

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, Pamela Marcum  wrote:

From: Pamela Marcum 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "'Swain, Frances L'" , "'O'Donnell, Bill'"
, "'Histonet'"

Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 11:34 AM

We would need more histologists presence in the office for that and not the
"business people" running it now for shows.

Pamela A Marcum
University of Pennsylvania 
School of Veterinary Medicine
Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL)
382 W Street Rd
Kennett Square PA 19438
610-925-6278


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Swain,
Frances L
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:22 AM
To: O'Donnell, Bill; Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been reference to someone else taking the practical exam instead
of the applicant.  Since the written exam has become a computer generated
program what is to stop someone from taking the exam for an applicant.  The
reasons given for dropping the exam are very shallow.  The idea that Victor
and Barry have been tauting are the best ones. The time has come that the
NSH step in and regulate us.  If the ASCP still wants to certify us then
they can send a representative to the different district to oversee and
participate in the scoring of the practical exam, etc.  It would be a lot
cheaper that way.

Frances L. Swain HT(ASCP) A. A. S.
Special Procedures Technician
Department of Orthopaedic Surgery
Center for Orthopaedic Research
Barton Research Building 2R28
4301 West Markham Street
Little Rock AR 72205
(501) 686-8739 PHONE
(501) 686-8987 FAX
swainfranc...@uams.edu email

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of O'Donnell,
Bill
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:01 AM
To: Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the practical
exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to apply would
cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of people doing
other peoples practicals. 

I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I emphasize
"might" and add "but likely did not") have occurred
sporadically in all the
years prior.

I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear from
someone who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this
practicum.

However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly deteriorated.

William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC 
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847 


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of
the examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the
person sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the
practical and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R 
wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" ,
"Histonet"

Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate
test of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a
written examination. 
Without a somewhat standardized pract

[Histonet] Ventana TechMate Slide holders needed-

[John O'Brien]

Trying to locate some old microscope Slide racks for the TechMate Slide stainer 
that was orginally manufactured by Bio Tech Solutions and was later aquired by 
Ventana. If any one know where to locate some of these old slide holder, it 
would be greatly appreciated.We are willing to trade or purchase these slide 
holders.
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Chiriboga, Luis]

that's because its American society FOR CLINCAL pathologist, not 
anatomic.(no offense intended) 

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 12:13 PM
To: 'Swain, Frances L'; 'O'Donnell, Bill'; 'Histonet'; Pamela Marcum
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

I can give you all 100:1 handicap that this will not happen, ever!
René J.

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, Pamela Marcum  wrote:

From: Pamela Marcum 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "'Swain, Frances L'" , "'O'Donnell, Bill'" 
, "'Histonet'" 

Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 11:34 AM

We would need more histologists presence in the office for that and not the
"business people" running it now for shows.

Pamela A Marcum
University of Pennsylvania 
School of Veterinary Medicine
Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL)
382 W Street Rd
Kennett Square PA 19438
610-925-6278


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Swain,
Frances L
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:22 AM
To: O'Donnell, Bill; Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been reference to someone else taking the practical exam instead
of the applicant.  Since the written exam has become a computer generated
program what is to stop someone from taking the exam for an applicant.  The
reasons given for dropping the exam are very shallow.  The idea that Victor
and Barry have been tauting are the best ones. The time has come that the
NSH step in and regulate us.  If the ASCP still wants to certify us then
they can send a representative to the different district to oversee and
participate in the scoring of the practical exam, etc.  It would be a lot
cheaper that way.

Frances L. Swain HT(ASCP) A. A. S.
Special Procedures Technician
Department of Orthopaedic Surgery
Center for Orthopaedic Research
Barton Research Building 2R28
4301 West Markham Street
Little Rock AR 72205
(501) 686-8739 PHONE
(501) 686-8987 FAX
swainfranc...@uams.edu email

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of O'Donnell,
Bill
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:01 AM
To: Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the practical
exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to apply would
cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of people doing
other peoples practicals. 

I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I emphasize
"might" and add "but likely did not") have occurred
sporadically in all the
years prior.

I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear from
someone who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this
practicum.

However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly deteriorated.

William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC 
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847 


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of
the examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the
person sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the
practical and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R 
wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" ,
"Histonet"

Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate
test of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a
written examination. 
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry 


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias
[vic...@pathology.

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Pamela Marcum]

I do my best not to take bad bets so I will pass.  There is no way ASCP will
give it its control and more importantly revenue stream on this one.  

 

Pamela A Marcum

University of Pennsylvania 

School of Veterinary Medicine

Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL)

382 W Street Rd

Kennett Square PA 19438

610-925-6278

 

  _  

From: Rene J Buesa [mailto:rjbu...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 12:13 PM
To: 'Swain, Frances L'; 'O'Donnell, Bill'; 'Histonet'; Pamela Marcum
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

 


I can give you all 100:1 handicap that this will not happen, ever!
René J.

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, Pamela Marcum  wrote:

From: Pamela Marcum 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "'Swain, Frances L'" , "'O'Donnell, Bill'"
, "'Histonet'"

Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 11:34 AM

We would need more histologists presence in the office for that and not the
"business people" running it now for shows.
 
Pamela A Marcum
University of Pennsylvania 
School of Veterinary Medicine
Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL)
382 W Street Rd
Kennett Square PA 19438
610-925-6278
 
 
-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Swain,
Frances L
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:22 AM
To: O'Donnell, Bill; Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
 
There has been reference to someone else taking the practical exam instead
of the applicant.  Since the written exam has become a computer generated
program what is to stop someone from taking the exam for an applicant.  The
reasons given for dropping the exam are very shallow.  The idea that Victor
and Barry have been tauting are the best ones. The time has come that the
NSH step in and regulate us.  If the ASCP still wants to certify us then
they can send a representative to the different district to oversee and
participate in the scoring of the practical exam, etc.  It would be a lot
cheaper that way.
 
Frances L. Swain HT(ASCP) A. A. S.
Special Procedures Technician
Department of Orthopaedic Surgery
Center for Orthopaedic Research
Barton Research Building 2R28
4301 West Markham Street
Little Rock AR 72205
(501) 686-8739 PHONE
(501) 686-8987 FAX
swainfranc...@uams.edu email
 
-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of O'Donnell,
Bill
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:01 AM
To: Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
 
If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the practical
exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to apply would
cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of people doing
other peoples practicals. 
 
I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I emphasize
"might" and add "but likely did not") have occurred
sporadically in all the
years prior.
 
I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear from
someone who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this
practicum.
 
However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly deteriorated.
 
William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC 
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847 
 
 
-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
 
There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of
the examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the
person sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the
practical and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.
 
--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R 
wrote:
 
From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" ,
"Histonet"

Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM
 
Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate
test of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a
written examination. 
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry 
 
__

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Rene J Buesa]

I can give you all 100:1 handicap that this will not happen, ever!
René J.

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, Pamela Marcum  wrote:

From: Pamela Marcum 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "'Swain, Frances L'" , "'O'Donnell, Bill'" 
, "'Histonet'" 

Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 11:34 AM

We would need more histologists presence in the office for that and not the
"business people" running it now for shows.

Pamela A Marcum
University of Pennsylvania 
School of Veterinary Medicine
Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL)
382 W Street Rd
Kennett Square PA 19438
610-925-6278


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Swain,
Frances L
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:22 AM
To: O'Donnell, Bill; Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been reference to someone else taking the practical exam instead
of the applicant.  Since the written exam has become a computer generated
program what is to stop someone from taking the exam for an applicant.  The
reasons given for dropping the exam are very shallow.  The idea that Victor
and Barry have been tauting are the best ones. The time has come that the
NSH step in and regulate us.  If the ASCP still wants to certify us then
they can send a representative to the different district to oversee and
participate in the scoring of the practical exam, etc.  It would be a lot
cheaper that way.

Frances L. Swain HT(ASCP) A. A. S.
Special Procedures Technician
Department of Orthopaedic Surgery
Center for Orthopaedic Research
Barton Research Building 2R28
4301 West Markham Street
Little Rock AR 72205
(501) 686-8739 PHONE
(501) 686-8987 FAX
swainfranc...@uams.edu email

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of O'Donnell,
Bill
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:01 AM
To: Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the practical
exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to apply would
cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of people doing
other peoples practicals. 

I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I emphasize
"might" and add "but likely did not") have occurred
sporadically in all the
years prior.

I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear from
someone who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this
practicum.

However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly deteriorated.

William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC 
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847 


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of
the examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the
person sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the
practical and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R 
wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" ,
"Histonet"

Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate
test of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a
written examination. 
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry 


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias
[vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to
whomever signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist has
verified that this student can cut and stain. Of course what is acceptable
to one pa

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Pamela Marcum]

We would need more histologists presence in the office for that and not the
"business people" running it now for shows.

Pamela A Marcum
University of Pennsylvania 
School of Veterinary Medicine
Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL)
382 W Street Rd
Kennett Square PA 19438
610-925-6278


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Swain,
Frances L
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:22 AM
To: O'Donnell, Bill; Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been reference to someone else taking the practical exam instead
of the applicant.  Since the written exam has become a computer generated
program what is to stop someone from taking the exam for an applicant.  The
reasons given for dropping the exam are very shallow.  The idea that Victor
and Barry have been tauting are the best ones. The time has come that the
NSH step in and regulate us.  If the ASCP still wants to certify us then
they can send a representative to the different district to oversee and
participate in the scoring of the practical exam, etc.  It would be a lot
cheaper that way.

Frances L. Swain HT(ASCP) A. A. S.
Special Procedures Technician
Department of Orthopaedic Surgery
Center for Orthopaedic Research
Barton Research Building 2R28
4301 West Markham Street
Little Rock AR 72205
(501) 686-8739 PHONE
(501) 686-8987 FAX
swainfranc...@uams.edu email

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of O'Donnell,
Bill
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:01 AM
To: Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the practical
exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to apply would
cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of people doing
other peoples practicals. 

I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I emphasize
"might" and add "but likely did not") have occurred sporadically in all the
years prior.

I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear from
someone who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this
practicum.

However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly deteriorated.

William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC 
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847 


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of
the examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the
person sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the
practical and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R  wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" , "Histonet"

Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate
test of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a
written examination. 
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry 


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias
[vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to
whomever signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist has
verified that this student can cut and stain. Of course what is acceptable
to one pathologist may not be to another. Do they get tested in the art of
troubleshooting.. As far as the schools go, they shouldn't be graduating
anyone that can't cut, stain and troubleshoot.
So I don't really see a problem with the absence of the practical. It is
Friday somewhere.

Victor

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Bernice Frederick]

When I was working on my practical, my fellow co-workers did not help as
they had all gone through it themselves and left it to the tech to do it.
You could ask a question for direction, but do the work? NEVER!
Bernice


Bernice Frederick HTL (ASCP)
Northwestern University
Pathology Core Facility
ECOGPCO-RL 
710 N Fairbanks Court
Olson 8-421
Chicago,IL 60611
312-503-3723


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of O'Donnell,
Bill
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:01 AM
To: Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the practical
exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to apply would
cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of people doing
other peoples practicals. 

I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I emphasize
"might" and add "but likely did not") have occurred sporadically in all the
years prior.

I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear from
someone who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this
practicum.

However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly deteriorated.

William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC 
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847 


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of
the examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the
person sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the
practical and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R  wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" , "Histonet"

Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate
test of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a
written examination. 
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry 


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias
[vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to
whomever signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist has
verified that this student can cut and stain. Of course what is acceptable
to one pathologist may not be to another. Do they get tested in the art of
troubleshooting.. As far as the schools go, they shouldn't be graduating
anyone that can't cut, stain and troubleshoot.
So I don't really see a problem with the absence of the practical. It is
Friday somewhere.

Victor

--
Victor Tobias
Clinical Applications Analyst
University of Washington Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room BB220
1959 NE Pacific
Seattle, WA 98195
vic...@pathology.washington.edu
206-598-2792
206-598-7659 Fax
=
Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be
contained in this message. This information is meant only for the use of the
intended recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or if the
message has been addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose,
reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this transmission.
Instead, please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then destroy all
copies of the message and any attachments.


___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet



  

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Houston, Ronald]

In the UK, histotechs and med techs are considered equal and as Biomedical 
Scientists, which is what the profession in the US should be aiming for. 

This was accomplished by the governing body, the Institute of Biomedical 
Sciences, and the Unions coming together. 

 

Was it pretty? Absolutely not, and there was a lot of ill-feeling and distrust 
for a while - but it was accomplished and salaries and government, and indeed 
public recognition increased.

 

IBMS administers the examination, incredibly strict and extensive, and licences 
are administered by the Department of Health (if my memory serves me 
correctly). No licence - no work!

 

Practical examinations are (were, I've been away for 20+ years)) held 
regionally at large teaching hospitals, and were also strictly administered - 
that way there was no possible way of someone doing the work for a student.

 

The written examination for fellowship, also held regionally, comprises three 
parts; a two hour essay (from 4 topics), five short essays (~30 minutes each) 
and then a 3 hour multiple choice examination.

 

Barry may also remember prior to this, the specialist exam also included an 
oral examination as well as written and practical - that was really testing 
your knowledge

 

As I say, things may have changed recently, but laboratory staff in hospitals 
are still biomedical scientists, and much more highly respected than HTs over 
here. 

 

Far different from the US, but we need to get real and decide what the 
profession, not the ASCP, really wants. That can only come through the 
membership and the NSH

 

Ronnie Houston, MS HT(ASCP)QIHC FIBMS

Anatomic Pathology Manager

Nationwide Children's Hospital

700 Children's Drive

Columbus, OH 43205

(614) 722 5450

ronald.hous...@nationwidechildrens.org

www.NationwideChildrens.org  

 

 

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rittman, Barry R
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:37 AM
To: Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

 

Rene

I have always regarded the mechanism of sending slides in to be a big flaw in 
the practical, it it did offer some standardization. cannot accept the cost 
logic.

The real question here is why is the ASCP running this exam at all?

I have great respect for the ASCP but is this organizations main goal to 
represent histotechs? The ASCP was not originally organized to look after our 
interests. I thought that the NSH and the individual state societies were 
instituted to do just that. In which case why is there not a standardized test 
that is administered by the NSH?

This can be done on a state level with individuals who are nationally certified 
.

Will this be more costly that the current system. Of course - but if histotechs 
wish for better recognition and pay I believe that this is the only path.

An alternate for appropriate salary and better conditions is unionizing. I know 
this has some disadvantages but lets face it with the national shortage of 
histotechs why haven't slaries and conditons improved dramatically, why are 
untrained people in some cases allowed to work in some positions?

I know that many who are .of by this continuing saga but I can only 
apologize because I feel strongly about this (and because I have more time 
following my semi retirement!!).

Barry

 

 



From: Rene J Buesa [rjbu...@yahoo.com]

Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM

To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R

Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

 

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of the 
examination:

1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the person 
sending the slides was the one who really made them, and

2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the 
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the practical 
and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).

René J.

 

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R  wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 

Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

To: "Victor Tobias" , "Histonet" 


Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

 

 

Victor

I cannot believe that you have said this.

Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate test

of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.

With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the

pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a written

examination.

Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the

technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual

laboratory.

Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,

useless.

What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test

that is administere

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Swain, Frances L]

There has been reference to someone else taking the practical exam instead of 
the applicant.  Since the written exam has become a computer generated program 
what is to stop someone from taking the exam for an applicant.  The reasons 
given for dropping the exam are very shallow.  The idea that Victor and Barry 
have been tauting are the best ones. The time has come that the NSH step in and 
regulate us.  If the ASCP still wants to certify us then they can send a 
representative to the different district to oversee and participate in the 
scoring of the practical exam, etc.  It would be a lot cheaper that way.

Frances L. Swain HT(ASCP) A. A. S.
Special Procedures Technician
Department of Orthopaedic Surgery
Center for Orthopaedic Research
Barton Research Building 2R28
4301 West Markham Street
Little Rock AR 72205
(501) 686-8739 PHONE
(501) 686-8987 FAX
swainfranc...@uams.edu email

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of O'Donnell, Bill
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:01 AM
To: Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the practical 
exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to apply would 
cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of people doing 
other peoples practicals. 

I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I emphasize "might" 
and add "but likely did not") have occurred sporadically in all the years prior.

I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear from someone 
who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this practicum.

However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly deteriorated.

William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC 
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847 


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of the 
examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the person 
sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the 
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the practical 
and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R  wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" , "Histonet" 

Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate test 
of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the 
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a written 
examination. 
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the 
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual 
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned, 
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test 
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry 


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias 
[vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to whomever 
signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist has verified that 
this student can cut and stain. Of course what is acceptable to one pathologist 
may not be to another. Do they get tested in the art of troubleshooting.. 
As far as the schools go, they shouldn't be graduating anyone that can't cut, 
stain and troubleshoot.
So I don't really see a problem with the absence of the practical. It is Friday 
somewhere.

Victor

--
Victor Tobias
Clinical Applications Analyst
University of Washington Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room BB220
1959 NE Pacific
Seattle, WA 98195
vic...@pathology.washington.edu
206-598-2792
206-598-7659 Fax
=
Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be contained 
in this message. This information is meant only for the use of the intended 
recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or if the message has been 
addressed to you in error,

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Swain, Frances L]

Thanks Barry.  I think you have the best idea yet.  The NSH needs to have a 
hand in our credientaling so why not have them do it all and if the practical 
is analyzed on the state level by certified techs in the area such as techs 
from other states who are not the co workers or friends of the techs testing 
would be a great idea.  Our peers are more critical of us than others.  This 
would be a good thing to address to the NSH President. 

Frances L. Swain HT(ASCP) A. A. S.
Special Procedures Technician
Department of Orthopaedic Surgery
Center for Orthopaedic Research
Barton Research Building 2R28
4301 West Markham Street
Little Rock AR 72205
(501) 686-8739 PHONE
(501) 686-8987 FAX
swainfranc...@uams.edu email
-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rittman, Barry R
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:37 AM
To: Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

Rene
I have always regarded the mechanism of sending slides in to be a big flaw in 
the practical, it it did offer some standardization. cannot accept the cost 
logic.
The real question here is why is the ASCP running this exam at all?
I have great respect for the ASCP but is this organizations main goal to 
represent histotechs? The ASCP was not originally organized to look after our 
interests. I thought that the NSH and the individual state societies were 
instituted to do just that. In which case why is there not a standardized test 
that is administered by the NSH?
This can be done on a state level with individuals who are nationally certified 
.
Will this be more costly that the current system. Of course - but if histotechs 
wish for better recognition and pay I believe that this is the only path.
An alternate for appropriate salary and better conditions is unionizing. I know 
this has some disadvantages but lets face it with the national shortage of 
histotechs why haven't slaries and conditons improved dramatically, why are 
untrained people in some cases allowed to work in some positions?
I know that many who are .of by this continuing saga but I can only 
apologize because I feel strongly about this (and because I have more time 
following my semi retirement!!).
Barry



From: Rene J Buesa [rjbu...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of the 
examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the person 
sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the 
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the practical 
and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R  wrote:
From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" , "Histonet" 

Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM


Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate test
of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a written
examination.
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias
[vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to
whomever signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist
has verified that this student can cut and stain. Of course what is
acceptable to one pathologist may not be to another. Do they get tested
in the art of troubleshooting.. As far as the schools go, they
shouldn't be graduating anyone that can't cut, stain and troubleshoot.
So I don't really see a problem with the absence of the practical. It is
Friday somewhere.

Victor

--
Victor Tobias
Clinical Applications Analyst
University of Washington Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room BB220
1959 NE Pacific
Seattle, WA 98195
vic...@pathology.washington.edu
206-598-2792
206-598-7659 Fax
=
Pri

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[O'Donnell, Bill]

If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the practical 
exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to apply would 
cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of people doing 
other peoples practicals. 

I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I emphasize "might" 
and add "but likely did not") have occurred sporadically in all the years prior.

I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear from someone 
who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this practicum.

However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly deteriorated.

William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC 
Lead Histologist
Good Samaritan Hospital
10 East 31st Street
Kearney, NE 68847 


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of the 
examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the person 
sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the 
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the practical 
and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R  wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" , "Histonet" 

Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate test 
of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the 
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a written 
examination. 
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the 
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual 
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned, 
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test 
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry 


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias 
[vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to whomever 
signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist has verified that 
this student can cut and stain. Of course what is acceptable to one pathologist 
may not be to another. Do they get tested in the art of troubleshooting.. 
As far as the schools go, they shouldn't be graduating anyone that can't cut, 
stain and troubleshoot.
So I don't really see a problem with the absence of the practical. It is Friday 
somewhere.

Victor

--
Victor Tobias
Clinical Applications Analyst
University of Washington Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room BB220
1959 NE Pacific
Seattle, WA 98195
vic...@pathology.washington.edu
206-598-2792
206-598-7659 Fax
=
Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be contained 
in this message. This information is meant only for the use of the intended 
recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or if the message has been 
addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute, 
disseminate or otherwise use this transmission. Instead, please notify the 
sender by reply e-mail, and then destroy all copies of the message and any 
attachments.


___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet



  
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet


___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

[Histonet] Disposal of chemicals containers

[tahseen]

Hi all,
I am looking protocol for the disposal of chemicals containers (empty)e.g
ethanol,xalline,DPX etc.
Thanks
Muhammad Tahseen
Histology supervisor
SKMCH&RC
Lahore,Pakistan


___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

RE: [Histonet] Sakura Express

[Bartlett, Jeanine (CDC/CCID/NCZVED)]

We have had no negative impact on either.  We did many parallel runs
initially and had to make no modifications. 


Jeanine Bartlett
Infectious Diseases Pathology Branch
(404) 639-3590 
jeanine.bartl...@cdc.hhs.gov


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mary
Abosso
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:12 AM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Sakura Express

Good Morning All - 
 
Our facility is looking to purchase a Sakura Express Tissue Processor
and would like any feedback from other users as to how this affected
molecular testing, as well as IHC.  Were there any needed changes that
needed to take place after implemented this processor?
 
Mary Abosso
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet



___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

[Histonet] acid sphingomyelinase and gamma H2X antibodies

[Jacqui Detmar]

Hello all.  I am looking for antibodies against acid sphingomyelinase (Smpd1) 
and gamma H2X (phosphorylated histone).  We would like to be able to use these 
antibodies for IHC against murine and human tissues (or either, but of course, 
cross-specificity would be great).  Does anybody out there have any experience 
with these antibodies and can recommend a source?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Jacqui

 

 

Jacqui Detmar, Post-doctoral Fellow

Samuel Lunenfeld Research Institute, 

Mount Sinai Hospital

25 Orde Street, room 6-1001 AJ,

Toronto, ON, Canada

M5T 3H7

 

phone:   416-586-4800 x5607

fax:416-586-8588

email: det...@lunenfeld.ca

 

___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Rittman, Barry R]

Rene
I have always regarded the mechanism of sending slides in to be a big flaw in 
the practical, it it did offer some standardization. cannot accept the cost 
logic.
The real question here is why is the ASCP running this exam at all?
I have great respect for the ASCP but is this organizations main goal to 
represent histotechs? The ASCP was not originally organized to look after our 
interests. I thought that the NSH and the individual state societies were 
instituted to do just that. In which case why is there not a standardized test 
that is administered by the NSH?
This can be done on a state level with individuals who are nationally certified 
.
Will this be more costly that the current system. Of course - but if histotechs 
wish for better recognition and pay I believe that this is the only path.
An alternate for appropriate salary and better conditions is unionizing. I know 
this has some disadvantages but lets face it with the national shortage of 
histotechs why haven't slaries and conditons improved dramatically, why are 
untrained people in some cases allowed to work in some positions?
I know that many who are .of by this continuing saga but I can only 
apologize because I feel strongly about this (and because I have more time 
following my semi retirement!!).
Barry



From: Rene J Buesa [rjbu...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of the 
examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the person 
sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the 
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the practical 
and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R  wrote:
From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" , "Histonet" 

Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM


Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate test
of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a written
examination.
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias
[vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to
whomever signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist
has verified that this student can cut and stain. Of course what is
acceptable to one pathologist may not be to another. Do they get tested
in the art of troubleshooting.. As far as the schools go, they
shouldn't be graduating anyone that can't cut, stain and troubleshoot.
So I don't really see a problem with the absence of the practical. It is
Friday somewhere.

Victor

--
Victor Tobias
Clinical Applications Analyst
University of Washington Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room BB220
1959 NE Pacific
Seattle, WA 98195
vic...@pathology.washington.edu
206-598-2792
206-598-7659 Fax
=
Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be
contained in this message. This information is meant only for the use
of the intended recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or
if the message has been addressed to you in error, do not read,
disclose, reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this
transmission. Instead, please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and
then destroy all copies of the message and any attachments.


___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet




___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

[Histonet] RE:uncertified techs

[Paula Pierce]

There - a place
Their - possessive pronoun
They're - contraction for "they are"


 




From: "Edwards, R.E." 
To: Steven Coakley ; "Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu" 

Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:32:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Histonet] RE:uncertified techs

Done working, dun speling two!!

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Coakley
Sent: 19 February 2009 20:42
To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] RE:uncertified techs

Wow has this discussion gone on an on.  Didn't know I was opening up a can of 
worms here?  Here's one better.  What about those individuals that have only 
worked at only one facility, trained OJT then getting there ASCP on thier own.  
Absolutely no HT exposure at another facility.  Talk about narrow minded, one 
way thats there way requardless of the actual experience of other HT's.  Oh 
well tis the nature of "---"  Lukly a couple more years and I'll be 
done working.   Or at least I hope.
 
Later


      
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

[Histonet] Sakura Express

[Mary Abosso]

Good Morning All - 
 
Our facility is looking to purchase a Sakura Express Tissue Processor and would 
like any feedback from other users as to how this affected molecular testing, 
as well as IHC.  Were there any needed changes that needed to take place after 
implemented this processor?
 
Mary Abosso
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

RE: [Histonet] RE:uncertified techs

[Edwards, R.E.]

Done working, dun speling two!!

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Coakley
Sent: 19 February 2009 20:42
To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] RE:uncertified techs

Wow has this discussion gone on an on.  Didn't know I was opening up a can of 
worms here?  Here's one better.  What about those individuals that have only 
worked at only one facility, trained OJT then getting there ASCP on thier own.  
Absolutely no HT exposure at another facility.  Talk about narrow minded, one 
way thats there way requardless of the actual experience of other HT's.  Oh 
well tis the nature of "---"  Lukly a couple more years and I'll be 
done working.   Or at least I hope.
 
Later


  
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Pamela Marcum]

Thank You, Barry!!  I agree totally with your comments and hope some one
listens.

Pamela A Marcum
University of Pennsylvania 
School of Veterinary Medicine
Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL)
382 W Street Rd
Kennett Square PA 19438
610-925-6278

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rittman,
Barry R
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 6:30 PM
To: Victor Tobias; Histonet
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate
test of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a
written examination. 
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry 


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias
[vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to
whomever signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist
has verified that this student can cut and stain. Of course what is
acceptable to one pathologist may not be to another. Do they get tested
in the art of troubleshooting.. As far as the schools go, they
shouldn't be graduating anyone that can't cut, stain and troubleshoot.
So I don't really see a problem with the absence of the practical. It is
Friday somewhere.

Victor

--
Victor Tobias
Clinical Applications Analyst
University of Washington Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room BB220
1959 NE Pacific
Seattle, WA 98195
vic...@pathology.washington.edu
206-598-2792
206-598-7659 Fax
=
Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be
contained in this message. This information is meant only for the use
of the intended recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or
if the message has been addressed to you in error, do not read,
disclose, reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this
transmission. Instead, please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and
then destroy all copies of the message and any attachments.


___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet


___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Rene J Buesa]

There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of the 
examination:
1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the person 
sending the slides was the one who really made them, and
2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the 
reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the practical 
and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU).
René J.

--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R  wrote:

From: Rittman, Barry R 
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam
To: "Victor Tobias" , "Histonet" 

Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM

Victor
I cannot believe that you have said this.
Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate test
of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the
pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a written
examination. 
Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the
technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual
laboratory.
Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned,
useless.
What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test
that is administered by NSH.
I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
Barry 


From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias
[vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
To: Histonet
Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam

There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to
whomever signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist
has verified that this student can cut and stain. Of course what is
acceptable to one pathologist may not be to another. Do they get tested
in the art of troubleshooting.. As far as the schools go, they
shouldn't be graduating anyone that can't cut, stain and troubleshoot.
So I don't really see a problem with the absence of the practical. It is
Friday somewhere.

Victor

--
Victor Tobias
Clinical Applications Analyst
University of Washington Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room BB220
1959 NE Pacific
Seattle, WA 98195
vic...@pathology.washington.edu
206-598-2792
206-598-7659 Fax
=
Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be
contained in this message. This information is meant only for the use
of the intended recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or
if the message has been addressed to you in error, do not read,
disclose, reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this
transmission. Instead, please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and
then destroy all copies of the message and any attachments.


___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet




___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

[Histonet] IHC / immunohistochemistry Positions open with Lab in Atlanta

[CareerStudio]

Talented IHC / immunohistochemistry individuals - from Lead 
Histotechnologists through Histology Supervisor are needed for a premier, 
established yet 
growing clinical reference lab in the Atlanta area.   Familiarity desired with 
large libraries of antibodies (200+/-), antibody validations, QC'ing and 
troubleshooting stains, high volumes, sample variation and multiple staining 
platforms 
(Dako, Leica)  

My client is offering competitive compensation packages and relocation 
assistance. Yes, must be HT or HTL certified! 

Barbara 
Career Studio
careerstu...@aol.com 
561-738-6363



**
Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. 
(http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp0003)
___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam

[Rosa Fields]

I also agree.  It would be wonderful to have NSH administer the exam.  The 
computer adaptive "written" part of the exam is excellent, and very 
standardized.  If a national practical exam administered by NSH could take 
place at the summer session and fall meetings, I would be all for that. 

Of course many don't need the incentive of required CE to obtain it, but it 
helps to promote the profession.  I hope it will raise the level of perceived 
professionalism by medical administrators.


Rosa Fields, HT (ASCP)
Gastroenterology Specialties
Histology Supervisor
4545 R Street
Lincoln, NE  68503
402-465-4545
rfie...@gidocs.net

The information contained in the message and the documents accompanying this 
message contain information that is privileged and confidential and is intended 
only for the use of the individual or entity named above.  If the reader of 
this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible 
for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication, other than its 
return to the sender, is strictly prohibited.  



-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:34 PM
To: Rittman, Barry R
Cc: Histonet
Subject: Re: [Histonet] Practical Exam

Barry,

I agree with your statement,

What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test 
that is administered by NSH.

Victor Tobias
Clinical Applications Analyst
University of Washington Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room BB220
1959 NE Pacific
Seattle, WA 98195
vic...@pathology.washington.edu
206-598-2792
206-598-7659 Fax
=
Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be
contained in this message. This information is meant only for the use 
of the intended recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or 
if the message has been addressed to you in error, do not read, 
disclose, reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this 
transmission. Instead, please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and 
then destroy all copies of the message and any attachments.



Rittman, Barry R wrote:
> Victor
> I cannot believe that you have said this.
> Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate test 
> of skill ,  it did at least provide some uniformity.
> With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the 
> pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a 
> written examination. 
> Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the 
> technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual 
> laboratory.
> Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned, 
> useless.
> What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test 
> that is administered by NSH.
> I am not holding my breath that this will happen.
> Barry 
>
> 
> From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
> [histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias 
> [vic...@pathology.washington.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM
> To: Histonet
> Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam
>
> There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam.
> To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to
> whomever signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist
> has verified that this student can cut and stain. Of course what is
> acceptable to one pathologist may not be to another. Do they get tested
> in the art of troubleshooting.. As far as the schools go, they
> shouldn't be graduating anyone that can't cut, stain and troubleshoot.
> So I don't really see a problem with the absence of the practical. It is
> Friday somewhere.
>
> Victor
>
> --
> Victor Tobias
> Clinical Applications Analyst
> University of Washington Medical Center
> Dept of Pathology Room BB220
> 1959 NE Pacific
> Seattle, WA 98195
> vic...@pathology.washington.edu
> 206-598-2792
> 206-598-7659 Fax
> =
> Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be
> contained in this message. This information is meant only for the use
> of the intended recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or
> if the message has been addressed to you in error, do not read,
> disclose, reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this
> transmission. Instead, please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and
> then destroy all copies of the message and any attachments.
>
>
> ___
> Histonet mailing list
> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

___

[Histonet] IGF1 and IGF2 antibody

[yan gao]

Hi, Histonet.

May I ask anyone have try to work out IGF1 and IGF2 antibody on mouse tissue?  
Thanks

 

Yan Gao

_
Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. 
http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

RE: [Histonet] on-line Histology programs

[joelle weaver]

 Thanks to Jennifer for posting our Columbus State Histology program as well. 
The web address she provided will give anyone interested a lot of background 
information. The lecture and theory is online, but there is a signifigant 
clinical portion that is performed in histology laboratories. Of course, I 
think our program is very good as well. I would welcome any inquiries or 
questions from anyone interested in looking into our program. We have very good 
success rate- currently 100% pass rate on the registry and excellent placment 
rate of our students.

Thanks

Joelle Weaver HTL (ASCP)

 

 
> From: jmacdon...@mtsac.edu
> To: tim.mor...@thermofisher.com
> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:33:03 -0800
> Subject: RE: [Histonet] on-line Histology programs
> CC: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> 
> 
> Columbus State Community College also has one: [1]www.cscc.edu/His 
> tology/admission.htm
> 
> -histonet-bou...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu wrote: -
> 
> To: histonet 
> From: "Morken, Tim" 
> Sent by: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> Date: 02/19/2009 08:1AM
> Subject: RE: [Histonet] on-line Histology programs
> There is als=n online course available from Darton College,
> Darton Georgia.
> Tim Morken
> -Original Message-
> From: histone=boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> [[2]mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthw=tern.edu] On Behalf
> Of Rene J Buesa
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2�9 5:56 AM
> To: histonet; Angela Bitting
> Subject: Re: [Histonet] on-l=e Histology programs
> There are 2 very good programs on line. One a=he Indiana
> University School of Medicine in Indianapolis and the other i=
> the HT program at Hartford Community College in Bel Air, MD.
> René=
> --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Angela Bitting  wrote:
> From: Angela Bitting 
> S=ject: [Histonet] on-line Histology programs
> To: "histonet" 
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:25 =
> I have a Lab assistant who would like to become an HT. She is int erested in 
> OJTing here with us and taking the required classes
> on-lin=o that she can sit for her HT exam. Can anyone recommend
> a good program =r her?
> Thanks,
> Angie
> Angela Bitting, HT(ASCP)
> Technic= Specialist, Histology
> Geisinger Medical Center
> 100 N Academy Ave. = 23-00
> Danville, PA 17822
> phone 570-214-9634
> fax 570=71-5916
> No trees were hurt in the sending of this email However ma=
> electrons were severly inconvienienced!
> IMPORTANT WAR=NG: The information in this message (and the
> documents attached to it, if=y) is confidential and may be
> legally privileged. It is intended solely =r the addressee.
> Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorized.If you are
> not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribut=n
> or any action taken, or omitted to be taken, in reliance on it is
> prohi=ted and may be unlawful. If you have received this message
> in error, plea= delete all electronic copies of this message
> (and the documents attached= it, if any), destroy any hard
> copies you may have created and notify me=mediately by replying
> to this email. Thank you. __ 5F__=F_
> Histonet mailing list
> hist...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> [3]http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/=ilman/listinfo/histonet
>  __ 5F__=F_
> Histonet mailing list
> hist...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> [4]http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/=ilman/listinfo/histonet
>  __ 5F__=F_
> Histonet mailing list
> histo...@lists.u=outhwestern.edu
> [5]http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/list=fo/histonet
> 
> 
> References
> 
> 1. file://localhost/tmp/3D"h 2. 3D"mailto:histonet-boun...@list 3. 
> 3D"http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu=
> 4. 3D"http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu=
> 5. 
> 3D"http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/lis___
> Histonet mailing list
> Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
> http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

_
Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. 
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009___
Histonet mailing list
Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet