Re: z/VM 5.4.0 - SHUTDOWN HANGS

[Colin Allinson]

Raymond Noal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote :-

> SHUTDOWN processing starts and the last line displayed is for DISABLE 
ALL DEVICES.
We have had a problem with various versions of z/VM 5.x (we are on 5.4 
currently) where the DISABLE ALL DEVICES took an extremely long time on a 
1st level system. When I say long, I mean looonnn (sometimes up to 45 
minutes). We pinned the problem down to 2 boxes of 4096 non-IBM (SUN/STK) 
DASD that was giving different exception responses at this stage. There 
was disagreement because Sun/STK said they were doing it by the spec while 
IBM said differently. I would have to look up the details but we got a fix 
from IBM to exclude this range of DASD from exception processing during 
SHUTDOWN and we are now fine.
Not sure if this is any help.


Colin Allinson

Amadeus Data Processing GmbH

Re: Mainframe education/training

[Rick Troth]

> What's the good and bad news about today's mainframe education?

The good news is that some (eg: university) students are
hearing about mainframes, though not often in their classes.

The bad news is that most academic sites
continue to run "the cheap stuff".

People learn by doing.  Even the most bookie student
eventually has to get his hands on a computer to understand it.

> Does it keep pace with mainframe evolution?

I recently heard about a (commercial) formal course
(I would probably not say which one even if I could recall)
which was SEVERAL YEARS behind.

> What are noteworthy publishing resources for mainframe training/education?

As businesses must combine internet presence
with traditional storefront, so here the courses
(formal, informal, commercial, academic) must combine
current online content with prepared material, lecture, lab.

-- R;   <><

Re: new program on download page.

[Schuh, Richard]

And there were no errors in the VMARC Unpack? Have you tried the FBLOCK
trick (PIPE < vmarc file | fblock 80 00 | > vmarc file)  before
unpacking the module?

Regards, 
Richard Schuh 

 

 




From: The IBM z/VM Operating System
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Rohling
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:46 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: new program on download page.


Out of curiosity - I tried this - got the 'Unknown CP/CMS
command' when I entered XBROWSE.  Then I went and downloaded the
alternate REXX library as suggested, installed  -- and this is what I
get:

xbrowse
EAGALT0300E Error 3 running compiled XBROWSE *, line 0: Program
is unreadable
EAGALT0304I The program cannot run with the Alternate Library
Ready(20003); T=0.01/0.01 15:42:16

Be nice to just have the REXX source, but I suppose that's up to
the author..  

Scott Rohling

p.s.  XBROWSE MODULE is just as it came out of XBROWSE VMARC --
so not sure what the Program unreadable msg is about...


On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Thomas Kern
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


When I enter XBROWSE (with no arguments), I get a return
code off 100. If I
give it an FN FT FM or an SPFNUM, it works. Perhaps your
problem is a lack
of a REXX Library, either the product version or that
alternate freebie one.
I have the alternate library installed.

/Tom Kern
/301-903-2211



On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 15:19:57 -0500, Huegel, Thomas
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>There is a new package on the IBM download page XBROWSE
.. I downloaded it
did VMARC and got two files 1) XBROWSE MODULE and 2)
XBROWSE CMSHELP..
>
>But when I type XBROWSE .. I get UNKNOWN CP/CMS
COMMAND.
>
>This is a complied REXX program and should at least
start to execute... ..
>
>Anyone else have this problem?
>
>Thanks
>Tom
>

Re: new program on download page.

[Bruce Hayden]

The "program is unreadable" because "EAGALT0304I The program cannot
run with the Alternate Library".  I don't know why people supply
"free" tools without source code, but at least compiled tools on the
download page should be compiled to work with the alternate library!

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Scott Rohling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Out of curiosity - I tried this - got the 'Unknown CP/CMS command' when I
> entered XBROWSE.  Then I went and downloaded the alternate REXX library as
> suggested, installed  -- and this is what I get:
>
> xbrowse
> EAGALT0300E Error 3 running compiled XBROWSE *, line 0: Program is
> unreadable
> EAGALT0304I The program cannot run with the Alternate Library
> Ready(20003); T=0.01/0.01 15:42:16
>
> Be nice to just have the REXX source, but I suppose that's up to the
> author..
>
> Scott Rohling
>
> p.s.  XBROWSE MODULE is just as it came out of XBROWSE VMARC -- so not sure
> what the Program unreadable msg is about...
>

-- 
Bruce Hayden
Linux on System z Advanced Technical Support
IBM, Endicott, NY

Re: Need some help with REXX EXEC

[Mike Walter]

Larry,

He is using CP SIGNAL, hence the HCPSIG... messages he's trying to wait 
for.
That's easy to overlook when we only see part of the code.

Mike Walter 
Hewitt Associates 
Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily 
represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates.





"Davis, Larry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

Sent by: "The IBM z/VM Operating System" 
10/07/2008 04:24 PM
Please respond to
"The IBM z/VM Operating System" 



To
IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
cc

Subject
Re: Need some help with REXX EXEC






If you use the signal facility the Linux image will shutdown and VM will 
wait for it to shutdown prior to completing VM's own shutdown process.
 
Larry

From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
Behalf Of Martin, Terry R. (CMS/CTR) (CTR)
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 4:41 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Need some help with REXX EXEC

Hi
 
I am trying to write a REXX exec to shutdown my z/Linux guests. I am 
having trouble figuring out a couple of things:
 
  'MAKEBUF' 
   RC = 0 
 DO FOREVER;   /* WILL GET MESSAGES UNTIL GUEST DOWN */ 
 'WAKEUP (IUCVMSG QUIET'/* MESSAGE HAS ARRIVED */ 
 
  PARSE PULL MSG  /*GET RETURNED MESSAGE*/ 
 /* PARSE VAR MSG TYPE F1 F2 MSGID F3 GUEST REST */ 
 
  IF RC = 6 THEN 
 /*IF RC = 5 & TYPE = '*CP', */ 
 /*  & (MSGID = 'HCPSIG2113I'| MSGID = 'HCPSIG2112I') THEN */ 
DO 
 IF FUNCTION = 'SHUTDOWN' THEN 
 
First, I am not seeing the Shutdown message coming back to the BUFFER 
(MAKEBUF). I would like to parse the message to make sure it is the 
message I am looking for. I did a QUEUED on the BUFFER and there was 
nothing on the STACK. Any ideas why or even if this message should/is not 
coming back to the BUFFER?
 
Second, After I receive the HCPSIG2112I message that says the guest has 
been shutdown, and I check and it has, but instead of dropping into the 
code it just sits there in RUNNING and I need to hit the ENTER key to get 
going again. Is there something I need or can do to simulate the ENTER 
KEY.
 
Note: All of the code is not shown here! 
 
 
 
Thank You,
 
Terry Martin
Lockheed Martin - Information Technology
z/OS & z/VM Systems - Performance and Tuning
Cell - 443 632-4191
Work - 410 786-0386
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 




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Re: new program on download page.

[Scott Rohling]

http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=960&uid=swg24006250

is where I got it..

Scott Rohling

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Huegel, Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Tom,
>
> Any idea where I can find the freebie REXX library?
>
> Tom
>
> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Thomas Kern
> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:38 PM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Re: new program on download page.
>
>
> When I enter XBROWSE (with no arguments), I get a return code off 100. If=
>  I
> give it an FN FT FM or an SPFNUM, it works. Perhaps your problem is a lac=
> k
> of a REXX Library, either the product version or that alternate freebie o=
> ne.
> I have the alternate library installed.
>
> /Tom Kern
> /301-903-2211
>
>
> On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 15:19:57 -0500, Huegel, Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wro=
> te:
>
> >Hi all,
> >
> >There is a new package on the IBM download page XBROWSE .. I downloaded =
> it
> did VMARC and got two files 1) XBROWSE MODULE and 2) XBROWSE CMSHELP..
> >
> >But when I type XBROWSE .. I get UNKNOWN CP/CMS COMMAND.
> >
> >This is a complied REXX program and should at least start to execute... =
> ..
> >
> >Anyone else have this problem?
> >
> >Thanks
> >Tom
> >
>

Re: new program on download page.

[Scott Rohling]

Out of curiosity - I tried this - got the 'Unknown CP/CMS command' when I
entered XBROWSE.  Then I went and downloaded the alternate REXX library as
suggested, installed  -- and this is what I get:

xbrowse
EAGALT0300E Error 3 running compiled XBROWSE *, line 0: Program is
unreadable
EAGALT0304I The program cannot run with the Alternate Library
Ready(20003); T=0.01/0.01 15:42:16

Be nice to just have the REXX source, but I suppose that's up to the
author..

Scott Rohling

p.s.  XBROWSE MODULE is just as it came out of XBROWSE VMARC -- so not sure
what the Program unreadable msg is about...

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Thomas Kern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> When I enter XBROWSE (with no arguments), I get a return code off 100. If I
> give it an FN FT FM or an SPFNUM, it works. Perhaps your problem is a lack
> of a REXX Library, either the product version or that alternate freebie
> one.
> I have the alternate library installed.
>
> /Tom Kern
> /301-903-2211
>
>
> On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 15:19:57 -0500, Huegel, Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >Hi all,
> >
> >There is a new package on the IBM download page XBROWSE .. I downloaded it
> did VMARC and got two files 1) XBROWSE MODULE and 2) XBROWSE CMSHELP..
> >
> >But when I type XBROWSE .. I get UNKNOWN CP/CMS COMMAND.
> >
> >This is a complied REXX program and should at least start to execute... ..
> >
> >Anyone else have this problem?
> >
> >Thanks
> >Tom
> >
>

Re: new program on download page.

[Huegel, Thomas]

Using the ALT LIB I downloaded from IBM I get the following:

xbrowse profile exec a  
 
EAGALT0300E Error 3 running compiled XBROWSE *, line 0: Program is unreadable   
 
EAGALT0304I The program cannot run with the Alternate Library   
 

Are there any other ALT LIB's ???


-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Thomas Kern
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:38 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: new program on download page.


When I enter XBROWSE (with no arguments), I get a return code off 100. If=
 I
give it an FN FT FM or an SPFNUM, it works. Perhaps your problem is a lac=
k
of a REXX Library, either the product version or that alternate freebie o=
ne.
I have the alternate library installed.

/Tom Kern
/301-903-2211 


On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 15:19:57 -0500, Huegel, Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wro=
te:

>Hi all,
>
>There is a new package on the IBM download page XBROWSE .. I downloaded =
it
did VMARC and got two files 1) XBROWSE MODULE and 2) XBROWSE CMSHELP..
>
>But when I type XBROWSE .. I get UNKNOWN CP/CMS COMMAND.
>
>This is a complied REXX program and should at least start to execute... =
..
>
>Anyone else have this problem?
>
>Thanks
>Tom
>

Re: Need some help with REXX EXEC

[Davis, Larry]

If you use the signal facility the Linux image will shutdown and VM will
wait for it to shutdown prior to completing VM's own shutdown process.
 
Larry



From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Martin, Terry R. (CMS/CTR) (CTR)
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 4:41 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Need some help with REXX EXEC



Hi

 

I am trying to write a REXX exec to shutdown my z/Linux guests. I am
having trouble figuring out a couple of things:

 

  'MAKEBUF'

   RC = 0  

 DO FOREVER;   /* WILL GET MESSAGES UNTIL GUEST DOWN */

 'WAKEUP (IUCVMSG QUIET'/* MESSAGE HAS ARRIVED */  

   

  PARSE PULL MSG  /*GET RETURNED MESSAGE*/ 

 /* PARSE VAR MSG TYPE F1 F2 MSGID F3 GUEST REST */

   

  IF RC = 6 THEN   

 /*IF RC = 5 & TYPE = '*CP', */

 /*  & (MSGID = 'HCPSIG2113I'| MSGID = 'HCPSIG2112I') THEN */  

DO 

 IF FUNCTION = 'SHUTDOWN' THEN

 

First, I am not seeing the Shutdown message coming back to the BUFFER
(MAKEBUF). I would like to parse the message to make sure it is the
message I am looking for. I did a QUEUED on the BUFFER and there was
nothing on the STACK. Any ideas why or even if this message should/is
not coming back to the BUFFER?

 

Second, After I receive the HCPSIG2112I message that says the guest has
been shutdown, and I check and it has, but instead of dropping into the
code it just sits there in RUNNING and I need to hit the ENTER key to
get going again. Is there something I need or can do to simulate the
ENTER KEY.

 

Note: All of the code is not shown here! 

 

 

 

Thank You,

 

Terry Martin

Lockheed Martin - Information Technology

z/OS & z/VM Systems - Performance and Tuning

Cell - 443 632-4191

Work - 410 786-0386

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

Re: Mainframe education/training

[David Boyes]

I tend to agree with 99% of what Mr. Boyes said. However, the
educational responsibility needs to be placed more upon academia. For
them to teach UNIX / Linux is a given ability. The lack of educators
with mainframe skills and knowledge along with their respective teaching
tools limit in today's schools. 



I think another problem with the current approach is that IBM and others
approach the problem with a prepared curriculum that they want to have
taught. This approach works pretty well with technical and vocational
schools, but I think it misses the mark with the 4 year schools because
it's not easy to get new curriculum added to a true university program,
and most of those organizations have a difficult time accepting classes
they have to rely on remote resources to teach. There's a contractual
obligation there that IBM has partially addressed with donating hardware
to some schools, but expecting pre-prepared materials to go into place
is a hard sell when competing with other areas. 

I think another interesting observation has been the fleeing of students
from CS of any kind over the last few years. Many of them were going
into finance or business - I wonder if that will continue? If not, then
there may be some interesting opportunities to capture those students as
they try to change course midstream. 

Re: new program on download page.

[Huegel, Thomas]

Tom,

Any idea where I can find the freebie REXX library?

Tom

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Thomas Kern
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:38 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: new program on download page.


When I enter XBROWSE (with no arguments), I get a return code off 100. If=
 I
give it an FN FT FM or an SPFNUM, it works. Perhaps your problem is a lac=
k
of a REXX Library, either the product version or that alternate freebie o=
ne.
I have the alternate library installed.

/Tom Kern
/301-903-2211 


On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 15:19:57 -0500, Huegel, Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wro=
te:

>Hi all,
>
>There is a new package on the IBM download page XBROWSE .. I downloaded =
it
did VMARC and got two files 1) XBROWSE MODULE and 2) XBROWSE CMSHELP..
>
>But when I type XBROWSE .. I get UNKNOWN CP/CMS COMMAND.
>
>This is a complied REXX program and should at least start to execute... =
..
>
>Anyone else have this problem?
>
>Thanks
>Tom
>

Re: Need some help with REXX EXEC

[Scott Rohling]

Are you setting CPCONIO to IUCV?   You need to direct things to IUCV in
order for WAKEUP to know things are arriving via IUCVMSG

Scott Rohling

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Martin, Terry R. (CMS/CTR) (CTR) <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Hi
>
>
>
> I am trying to write a REXX exec to shutdown my z/Linux guests. I am having
> trouble figuring out a couple of things:
>
>
>
>   'MAKEBUF'
>
>RC = 0
>
>  DO FOREVER;   /* WILL GET MESSAGES UNTIL GUEST DOWN */
>
>  'WAKEUP (IUCVMSG QUIET'/* MESSAGE HAS ARRIVED */
>
>
>
>   PARSE PULL MSG  /*GET RETURNED MESSAGE*/
>
>  /* PARSE VAR MSG TYPE F1 F2 MSGID F3 GUEST REST */
>
>
>
>   IF RC = 6 THEN
>
>  /*IF RC = 5 & TYPE = '*CP', */
>
>  /*  & (MSGID = 'HCPSIG2113I'| MSGID = 'HCPSIG2112I') THEN */
>
> DO
>
>  IF FUNCTION = 'SHUTDOWN' THEN
>
>
>
> First, I am not seeing the Shutdown message coming back to the BUFFER
> (MAKEBUF). I would like to parse the message to make sure it is the message
> I am looking for. I did a QUEUED on the BUFFER and there was nothing on the
> STACK. Any ideas why or even if this message should/is not coming back to
> the BUFFER?
>
>
>
> Second, After I receive the HCPSIG2112I message that says the guest has
> been shutdown, and I check and it has, but instead of dropping into the code
> it just sits there in RUNNING and I need to hit the ENTER key to get going
> again. Is there something I need or can do to simulate the ENTER KEY.
>
>
>
> Note: All of the code is not shown here!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Thank You,*
>
>
>
> *Terry Martin*
>
> *Lockheed Martin - Information Technology*
>
> *z/OS & z/VM Systems - Performance and Tuning*
>
> *Cell - 443 632-4191*
>
> *Work - 410 786-0386*
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>

Need some help with REXX EXEC

[Martin, Terry R. (CMS/CTR) (CTR)]

Hi

 

I am trying to write a REXX exec to shutdown my z/Linux guests. I am
having trouble figuring out a couple of things:

 

  'MAKEBUF'

   RC = 0  

 DO FOREVER;   /* WILL GET MESSAGES UNTIL GUEST DOWN */

 'WAKEUP (IUCVMSG QUIET'/* MESSAGE HAS ARRIVED */  

   

  PARSE PULL MSG  /*GET RETURNED MESSAGE*/ 

 /* PARSE VAR MSG TYPE F1 F2 MSGID F3 GUEST REST */

   

  IF RC = 6 THEN   

 /*IF RC = 5 & TYPE = '*CP', */

 /*  & (MSGID = 'HCPSIG2113I'| MSGID = 'HCPSIG2112I') THEN */  

DO 

 IF FUNCTION = 'SHUTDOWN' THEN

 

First, I am not seeing the Shutdown message coming back to the BUFFER
(MAKEBUF). I would like to parse the message to make sure it is the
message I am looking for. I did a QUEUED on the BUFFER and there was
nothing on the STACK. Any ideas why or even if this message should/is
not coming back to the BUFFER?

 

Second, After I receive the HCPSIG2112I message that says the guest has
been shutdown, and I check and it has, but instead of dropping into the
code it just sits there in RUNNING and I need to hit the ENTER key to
get going again. Is there something I need or can do to simulate the
ENTER KEY.

 

Note: All of the code is not shown here! 

 

 

 

Thank You,

 

Terry Martin

Lockheed Martin - Information Technology

z/OS & z/VM Systems - Performance and Tuning

Cell - 443 632-4191

Work - 410 786-0386

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

Re: new program on download page.

[Thomas Kern]

When I enter XBROWSE (with no arguments), I get a return code off 100. If
 I
give it an FN FT FM or an SPFNUM, it works. Perhaps your problem is a lac
k
of a REXX Library, either the product version or that alternate freebie o
ne.
I have the alternate library installed.

/Tom Kern
/301-903-2211 


On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 15:19:57 -0500, Huegel, Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wro
te:

>Hi all,
>
>There is a new package on the IBM download page XBROWSE .. I downloaded 
it
did VMARC and got two files 1) XBROWSE MODULE and 2) XBROWSE CMSHELP..
>
>But when I type XBROWSE .. I get UNKNOWN CP/CMS COMMAND.
>
>This is a complied REXX program and should at least start to execute... 
..
>
>Anyone else have this problem?
>
>Thanks
>Tom
>

new program on download page.

[Huegel, Thomas]

Hi all,

There is a new package on the IBM download page XBROWSE .. I downloaded it did 
VMARC and got two files 1) XBROWSE MODULE and 2) XBROWSE CMSHELP..

But when I type XBROWSE .. I get UNKNOWN CP/CMS COMMAND.

This is a complied REXX program and should at least start to execute... ..

Anyone else have this problem?

Thanks
Tom

z/VM 5.4.0 - SHUTDOWN HANGS

[Raymond Noal]

Dear List,

Have any of you running z/VM 5.4.0 (RSU 0801) experienced a system hang
during SHUTDOWN processing. This happens with z/VM 5.4 running in a
second level virtual machine as well as in an LPAR. With 5.4 running in
a second level virtual machine, TRACK shows the virtual machine in a
disabled-run-supervisor state. SHUTDOWN processing starts and the last
line displayed is for DISABLE ALL DEVICES. I've checked on IBMLINK with
no success. Looks like it's PMR time.

HITACHI
 DATA SYSTEMS 
Raymond E. Noal 
Senior Technical Engineer 
Office: (408) 970 - 7978 

Re: Mainframe education/training

[Phillip Parmelee]

I tend to agree with 99% of what Mr. Boyes said. However, the educational 
responsibility needs to be placed more upon academia. For them to teach 
UNIX / Linux is a given ability. The lack of educators with mainframe 
skills and knowledge along with their respective teaching tools limit in 
today’s schools.
 
Phil Parmelee







David Boyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
10/07/2008 01:22 PM
Please respond to
The IBM z/VM Operating System 


To
IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
cc

Subject
Re: Mainframe education/training






> What's the good and bad news about today's mainframe education?

I think the good parts are that there is more of it occurring. The
negative side is that there continues to be a great deal of confusion
(most of it generated by IBM) that mainframe = z/OS. Much, if not all,
of the "advances" in training have covered exclusively z/OS education,
not System z education. 

That may change soon, but I can't say the state of real System z
education has improved much at all. 

> What's missing?

z/VM education
Linux on z
TPF
VSE
Large systems engineering
Batch processing education (this seems to have completely disappeared)

> What works? Classroom instruction? Online training? Self-study
courses?
> Books? User groups?

Combinations of the above. Online only is of limited value, especially
if you don't have a lab system you can break. 

> Do employers pay for it? Is it a necessity or a golden perk? Is it
safe
> in the budget or a first thing to get whacked?

If what I needed existed, I'd pay for it. User groups are generally as
effective, especially if well-organized. 

> What's happening in local mainframe user groups?

Well, Hillgang does pretty well. 

Re: Mainframe education/training

[David Boyes]

> What's the good and bad news about today's mainframe education?

I think the good parts are that there is more of it occurring. The
negative side is that there continues to be a great deal of confusion
(most of it generated by IBM) that mainframe = z/OS. Much, if not all,
of the "advances" in training have covered exclusively z/OS education,
not System z education. 

That may change soon, but I can't say the state of real System z
education has improved much at all. 

> What's missing?

z/VM education
Linux on z
TPF
VSE
Large systems engineering
Batch processing education (this seems to have completely disappeared)

> What works? Classroom instruction? Online training? Self-study
courses?
> Books? User groups?

Combinations of the above. Online only is of limited value, especially
if you don't have a lab system you can break. 

> Do employers pay for it? Is it a necessity or a golden perk? Is it
safe
> in the budget or a first thing to get whacked?

If what I needed existed, I'd pay for it. User groups are generally as
effective, especially if well-organized. 

> What's happening in local mainframe user groups?

Well, Hillgang does pretty well. 

Does VM's TCPIP support FICON CTCs (FCTCs)?

[Lee Stewart]

Does VM's TCPIP support FICON CTCs (FCTCs)?

Thanks,
Lee
--

Lee Stewart, Senior SE
Sirius Computer Solutions
Phone: (303) 798-2954
Fax:   (720) 228-2321
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web:   www.siriuscom.com

Re: SLAC VM Batch System availability ?

[Shedlock, George]

Tom,

I found a copy of the Lars batch system including all 9 files. Included is the 
full documentation for the system. The version I have is release 2.2, but I may 
have release 2.3 and some additional mods and fixes. Are you still interested 
in this?


George Shedlock Jr
AEGON Information Technology
AEGON USA
502-560-3541

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
Thomas Kern
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 8:46 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: SLAC VM Batch System availability ?

If you do find a Sysprog or User's guide, I would like to get a copy.
The last time I implemented the LARS/Purdue system, I had to plow through all 
of the source code to see how it was working. It has been a long time since 
then so I don't think I will remember any of the details of the inner workings.

/Tom Kern

Shedlock, George wrote:
> As I recall, the Lars system was comprised of 10-12 separate files on
> tape. One (maybe more) of the files was a complete systems programming
> and user guide. These were in a printed manual format (script?). Brain
> cells are fuzzy this morning.
>
>
>
> George Shedlock Jr
> AEGON Information Technology
> AEGON USA
> 502-560-3541
>
> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Thomas Kern
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 7:48 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Re: SLAC VM Batch System availability ?
>
> Not of the LARS/Purdue system. The copy Dave Jones supplied looks
> complete. I don't remember there ever being any documentation except
> for the source and the one end-user help file.
>
> /Tom Kern
>
> Shedlock, George wrote:
>> Tom,
>> The one I have is probably the LARS/Purdue system. If Dave Jones
>> already supplied a copy of it, do you still need another copy?
>>
>>
>> George Shedlock Jr
>> AEGON Information Technology
>> AEGON USA
>> 502-560-3541
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On Behalf Of Thomas Kern
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 7:41 AM
>> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
>> Subject: Re: SLAC VM Batch System availability ?
>>
>> There are two (I think different) Batch Systems that were available
>> at
>
>> different times. One is the LARS/Purdue Batch system. Dave Jones has
>> already supplied that. The other was from SLAC and was meant for the
>> High Energy Physics crowd. Both required mods to CP, and SLAC may
>> have
>
>> had mods to CMS as well. I am interested in BOTH.
>>
>> /Tom Kern
>>
>> Shedlock, George wrote:
>>> Tom,
>>>
>>> Are you referring to the old CMS Batch system that appeared on one
>>> of
>
>>> the old VM Workshop tapes? From what I remember, it required several
>>> mods to both CP and CMS modules in order to function properly. I
>>> believe I have a copy hanging around . Somewhere. I'll look at
>> home.
>>> George Shedlock Jr
>>> AEGON Information Technology
>>> AEGON USA
>>> 502-560-3541
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> On Behalf Of Thomas Kern
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 12:38 PM
>>> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
>>> Subject: SLAC VM Batch System availability ?
>>>
>>> Does anyone know if the old SLAC VM Batch System is still available
>>> from somewhere? Anyone have a copy collecting dust?
>>>
>>> /Tom Kern
>>>
>

Re: VM operator console?

[David Boyes]

> For an "MVS" shop, that all things equal helps with operators. 

I think that's a universal...8-)

> we have OPERATOR logged on that Mast
> er
> Console running the Performance Toolkit program PERFKIT. With an
minimum
> FCONX $PROFILE, you get a nice scrolling console with some (not great)
> logging of console activity to disk.

Yes, good suggestion. Perfkit also has a much easier to use and more
sophisticated message filtering and management capability than PROP.
It's also a lot easier to implement message forwarding to remote
destinations, and multiple users viewing the console as well. 

Re: VM operator console?

[Thomas Kern]

For an "MVS" shop, that all things equal helps with operators. Using an I
CC,
we have a Master Console for each LPAR with alternative sessions for
Terminal activity. For the IFL LPAR, we have OPERATOR logged on that Mast
er
Console running the Performance Toolkit program PERFKIT. With an minimum
FCONX $PROFILE, you get a nice scrolling console with some (not great)
logging of console activity to disk. 
 
/Tom Kern
/U.S. Department of Energy
/301-903-2211


On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 11:18:29 -0400, David Boyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wr
ote:
> ... snipped ... 
>
>If you've got an ICC, then define one of the logical devices on it to
>the VM LPAR and have it be the console in SYSTEM CONFIG. It's a waste of

>a perfectly good terminal, mostly - with no CMS users, there's very
>little for an operator to do on VM - but it makes all things equal from
>an operator POV.  
>
> ... snipped ... 

Re: VM operator console?

[Huegel, Thomas]

ICC works fine since about z/VM 4.4 (maybe even 4.3)..
You may want to use the terminal for something besides just a blank VM 
console.. One suggestion that OPS and even management (usually) seems to like 
is running a VM performance monitor. I think it is just the pretty colors but 
it always dresses up an otherwise 'unused' terminal.

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bauer, 
Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:24 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: VM operator console?



I know operations wants a 'console' so I'll look into using the OSA-ICC. 
Somehow I was under the impression it was not available to VM, not sure where I 
got that idea.



Jonathan, thanks for specifying non-sna/dft



Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474


  _


From: David Boyes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:18 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: VM operator console?



Trouble with a 'real' console is the need to be a locally attached 3270 device. 
I understand that to mean a 3174 or similar device. We don't have any. All our 
MVS consoles use the ICC OSA interface.



If you've got an ICC, then define one of the logical devices on it to the VM 
LPAR and have it be the console in SYSTEM CONFIG. It's a waste of a perfectly 
good terminal, mostly - with no CMS users, there's very little for an operator 
to do on VM - but it makes all things equal from an operator POV.



If you have some way to set up a NJE link to z/OS, you can route things with 
PROP to z/OS and handle them in Netview there. Either RSCS or the NJE Bridge 
does a nice job of that.

Re: VM operator console?

[Bill Munson]

Bobby,

You can set up the ICC OSA interface for z/VM also.
I use it here to log on to and SHUTDOWN and IPL z/VM.
We use OPERATOR and then disconnect it after the IPL.

Unfortunately for me the MVS group set this up on my PC so I am not sure 
how to do it.

good luck 

Bill Munson
Brown Brothers Harriman
Sr. z/VM Systems Programmer
201-418-7588

President MVMUA
http://www2.marist.edu/~mvmua/





"Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
10/07/2008 11:14 AM
Please respond to
The IBM z/VM Operating System 


To
IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
cc

Subject
Re: VM operator console?






Trouble with a ?real? console is the need to be a locally attached 3270 
device. I understand that to mean a 3174 or similar device. We don?t have 
any. All our MVS consoles use the ICC OSA interface.
 
Yeah the integrated 3270 on the HMC is a ?real? 3270!
 
Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474

From: Scott Rohling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:57 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: VM operator console?
 
I'm not sure I would rely on telnet -- the operator's should have a 'real' 
console to be able to shutdown/IPL in case of a network or TCPIP failure..

Scott Rohling
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E] <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Good questions Steve. At this point we are not sure what role operations 
will play. I guess they need to be able to shut down just in case and to 
IPL. We don't have any experience and are just trying to think ahead. I'm 
sure it will change 2 weeks after the Linux guest are in use.

Sounds like a PC with a telnet session to either OPERATOR or some other ID 
is the way to go. At least for the pilot we don't plan on using PROP as 
has been suggested.

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474


-Original Message-
From: Gentry, Stephen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:33 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: VM operator console?

I would recommend not using the HMC as an operator console. There is a
VM userid called OPERATOR, which is usually logged on when VM IPL's.
What are you wanting your operators to do? I would not use OPERATOR as a
console, per say. I would set up a separate userid for the operators.
I'd leave OPERATOR in a disconnect mode. I guess the question is, what
do you want the operators to do on VM? Or what do you think they need to
be doing?
Steve

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:20 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: VM operator console?

We are an MVS shop setting up a Linux under VM pilot and need to have
some procedures in place for operations. We are trying to figure out
how/where we want the operators to have console access. Right now only
the sys. progs. have any access to VM and we use a telnet session from
our desks to a VM user id or use the HMC. Is there a master console we
can setup for operations like MVS? Should we setup a userid for the
operators? Make them use the HMC?
Is there another alternative I've not mentioned and don't know about?

Thanks

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474
 


*** IMPORTANT
NOTE* The opinions expressed in this
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subsidiaries and affiliates ("BBH"). There is no guarantee that
this message is either private or confidential, and it may have
been altered by unauthorized sources without your or our knowledge.
Nothing in the message is capable or intended to create any legally
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provide legal advice. BBH accepts no responsibility for loss or
damage from its use, including damage from virus.

Re: OT: LPAR

[Neale Ferguson]

Brings a whole new meaning to "flushing cache lines".


On 10/7/08 11:30 AM, "Rob van der Heij" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Somehow with posts that refer to partitions and hardware, gmail
> account is suggesting links to "JackNob" which provides "Toilet
> Partitioning Hardware" -  :-)
> 
> Rob (avoiding a comment about pee-series LPAR)
> 

OT: LPAR

[Rob van der Heij]

Somehow with posts that refer to partitions and hardware, gmail
account is suggesting links to "JackNob" which provides "Toilet
Partitioning Hardware" -  :-)

Rob (avoiding a comment about pee-series LPAR)

Re: VM operator console?

[Dave Jones]

Nope, OSA-ICC works great with z/VM, and you still keep all of the function of TN3270 
(e.g., file transfer via IND$FILE).


Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E] wrote:

I know operations wants a 'console' so I'll look into using the OSA-ICC. 
Somehow I was
under the impression it was not available to VM, not sure where I got that idea.

Jonathan, thanks for specifying non-sna/dft


Bobby Bauer Center for Information Technology National Institutes of Health 
Bethesda,
MD 20892-5628 301-594-7474

 From: David Boyes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent:
Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:18 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: VM 
operator
console?

Trouble with a 'real' console is the need to be a locally attached 3270 device. 
I
understand that to mean a 3174 or similar device. We don't have any. All our MVS
consoles use the ICC OSA interface.

If you've got an ICC, then define one of the logical devices on it to the VM 
LPAR and
have it be the console in SYSTEM CONFIG. It's a waste of a perfectly good 
terminal,
mostly - with no CMS users, there's very little for an operator to do on VM - 
but it
makes all things equal from an operator POV.

If you have some way to set up a NJE link to z/OS, you can route things with 
PROP to
z/OS and handle them in Netview there. Either RSCS or the NJE Bridge does a 
nice job of
that.



--
DJ

V/Soft
  z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training,
  consulting, and software development
www.vsoft-software.com

Re: VM operator console?

[Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]]

I know operations wants a 'console' so I'll look into using the OSA-ICC. 
Somehow I was under the impression it was not available to VM, not sure where I 
got that idea.

Jonathan, thanks for specifying non-sna/dft


Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474


From: David Boyes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:18 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: VM operator console?

Trouble with a 'real' console is the need to be a locally attached 3270 device. 
I understand that to mean a 3174 or similar device. We don't have any. All our 
MVS consoles use the ICC OSA interface.

If you've got an ICC, then define one of the logical devices on it to the VM 
LPAR and have it be the console in SYSTEM CONFIG. It's a waste of a perfectly 
good terminal, mostly - with no CMS users, there's very little for an operator 
to do on VM - but it makes all things equal from an operator POV.

If you have some way to set up a NJE link to z/OS, you can route things with 
PROP to z/OS and handle them in Netview there. Either RSCS or the NJE Bridge 
does a nice job of that.

Re: VM operator console?

[Dave Jones]

As far as the physical connection goes, I would suggest using the OSA-ICC feature. It 
offers a built-in TN3270 server that TN3270 emulators can connect to via the company 
network (with appropriate security in place, of course), but to the host o/s, they appear 
as locally attached 3270 sessions. And it works even if the VM TCP/IP stack has some 
problem.


I would also create a new VM user id(s) for the actual operators, with the same privilege 
classes as OPERAOTR. It makes auditing who did what when a bit simpler.


Have a good one.

Kris Buelens wrote:

One can always use the integrated 3270 console on  the HMC, then one has a
"real 3270"

2008/10/7 Scott Rohling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


I'm not sure I would rely on telnet -- the operator's should have a 'real'
console to be able to shutdown/IPL in case of a network or TCPIP failure..

Scott Rohling


On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E] <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Good questions Steve. At this point we are not sure what role operations
will play. I guess they need to be able to shut down just in case and to
IPL. We don't have any experience and are just trying to think ahead. I'm
sure it will change 2 weeks after the Linux guest are in use.

Sounds like a PC with a telnet session to either OPERATOR or some other ID
is the way to go. At least for the pilot we don't plan on using PROP as has
been suggested.

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474



-Original Message-
From: Gentry, Stephen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:33 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: VM operator console?

I would recommend not using the HMC as an operator console. There is a
VM userid called OPERATOR, which is usually logged on when VM IPL's.
What are you wanting your operators to do? I would not use OPERATOR as a
console, per say. I would set up a separate userid for the operators.
I'd leave OPERATOR in a disconnect mode. I guess the question is, what
do you want the operators to do on VM? Or what do you think they need to
be doing?
Steve

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:20 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: VM operator console?

We are an MVS shop setting up a Linux under VM pilot and need to have
some procedures in place for operations. We are trying to figure out
how/where we want the operators to have console access. Right now only
the sys. progs. have any access to VM and we use a telnet session from
our desks to a VM user id or use the HMC. Is there a master console we
can setup for operations like MVS? Should we setup a userid for the
operators? Make them use the HMC?
Is there another alternative I've not mentioned and don't know about?

Thanks

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474








--
DJ

V/Soft
  z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training,
  consulting, and software development
www.vsoft-software.com

Re: VM operator console?

[Gentry, Stephen]

I don't think they mentioned what box they were running on, but if they
can setup ICC, then I would go that route versus using the HMC.  With
ICC you can use a PC with some 3270 software.  You can get yourself into
trouble pretty quick if you don't know your way around the HMC software.
What is it?  Gun, bullet, foot, something like that.

Steve

 



From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Scott Rohling
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:57 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: VM operator console?

 

I'm not sure I would rely on telnet -- the operator's should have a
'real' console to be able to shutdown/IPL in case of a network or TCPIP
failure..

Scott Rohling

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Good questions Steve. At this point we are not sure what role operations
will play. I guess they need to be able to shut down just in case and to
IPL. We don't have any experience and are just trying to think ahead.
I'm sure it will change 2 weeks after the Linux guest are in use.

Sounds like a PC with a telnet session to either OPERATOR or some other
ID is the way to go. At least for the pilot we don't plan on using PROP
as has been suggested.


Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474




-Original Message-
From: Gentry, Stephen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:33 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU

Subject: Re: VM operator console?

I would recommend not using the HMC as an operator console. There is a
VM userid called OPERATOR, which is usually logged on when VM IPL's.
What are you wanting your operators to do? I would not use OPERATOR as a
console, per say. I would set up a separate userid for the operators.
I'd leave OPERATOR in a disconnect mode. I guess the question is, what
do you want the operators to do on VM? Or what do you think they need to
be doing?
Steve

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:20 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: VM operator console?

We are an MVS shop setting up a Linux under VM pilot and need to have
some procedures in place for operations. We are trying to figure out
how/where we want the operators to have console access. Right now only
the sys. progs. have any access to VM and we use a telnet session from
our desks to a VM user id or use the HMC. Is there a master console we
can setup for operations like MVS? Should we setup a userid for the
operators? Make them use the HMC?
Is there another alternative I've not mentioned and don't know about?

Thanks

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474

 

Re: VM operator console?

[David Boyes]

Trouble with a 'real' console is the need to be a locally attached 3270
device. I understand that to mean a 3174 or similar device. We don't
have any. All our MVS consoles use the ICC OSA interface.

 

If you've got an ICC, then define one of the logical devices on it to
the VM LPAR and have it be the console in SYSTEM CONFIG. It's a waste of
a perfectly good terminal, mostly - with no CMS users, there's very
little for an operator to do on VM - but it makes all things equal from
an operator POV.  

 

If you have some way to set up a NJE link to z/OS, you can route things
with PROP to z/OS and handle them in Netview there. Either RSCS or the
NJE Bridge does a nice job of that. 

Re: VM operator console?

[Quay, Jonathan (IHG)]

You can use OSA-ICC for VM.  We do.  Use the non-sna/dft device type.

 



From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:15 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: VM operator console?

 

Trouble with a 'real' console is the need to be a locally attached 3270
device. I understand that to mean a 3174 or similar device. We don't
have any. All our MVS consoles use the ICC OSA interface.

 

Yeah the integrated 3270 on the HMC is a 'real' 3270!

 

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474



From: Scott Rohling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:57 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: VM operator console?

 

I'm not sure I would rely on telnet -- the operator's should have a
'real' console to be able to shutdown/IPL in case of a network or TCPIP
failure..

Scott Rohling

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Good questions Steve. At this point we are not sure what role operations
will play. I guess they need to be able to shut down just in case and to
IPL. We don't have any experience and are just trying to think ahead.
I'm sure it will change 2 weeks after the Linux guest are in use.

Sounds like a PC with a telnet session to either OPERATOR or some other
ID is the way to go. At least for the pilot we don't plan on using PROP
as has been suggested.


Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474



-Original Message-
From: Gentry, Stephen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:33 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU

Subject: Re: VM operator console?

I would recommend not using the HMC as an operator console. There is a
VM userid called OPERATOR, which is usually logged on when VM IPL's.
What are you wanting your operators to do? I would not use OPERATOR as a
console, per say. I would set up a separate userid for the operators.
I'd leave OPERATOR in a disconnect mode. I guess the question is, what
do you want the operators to do on VM? Or what do you think they need to
be doing?
Steve

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:20 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: VM operator console?

We are an MVS shop setting up a Linux under VM pilot and need to have
some procedures in place for operations. We are trying to figure out
how/where we want the operators to have console access. Right now only
the sys. progs. have any access to VM and we use a telnet session from
our desks to a VM user id or use the HMC. Is there a master console we
can setup for operations like MVS? Should we setup a userid for the
operators? Make them use the HMC?
Is there another alternative I've not mentioned and don't know about?

Thanks

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474

 

Re: VM operator console?

[Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]]

Trouble with a 'real' console is the need to be a locally attached 3270 device. 
I understand that to mean a 3174 or similar device. We don't have any. All our 
MVS consoles use the ICC OSA interface.

Yeah the integrated 3270 on the HMC is a 'real' 3270!


Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474


From: Scott Rohling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:57 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: VM operator console?

I'm not sure I would rely on telnet -- the operator's should have a 'real' 
console to be able to shutdown/IPL in case of a network or TCPIP failure..

Scott Rohling
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E] <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> wrote:
Good questions Steve. At this point we are not sure what role operations will 
play. I guess they need to be able to shut down just in case and to IPL. We 
don't have any experience and are just trying to think ahead. I'm sure it will 
change 2 weeks after the Linux guest are in use.

Sounds like a PC with a telnet session to either OPERATOR or some other ID is 
the way to go. At least for the pilot we don't plan on using PROP as has been 
suggested.

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474


-Original Message-
From: Gentry, Stephen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:33 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: VM operator console?

I would recommend not using the HMC as an operator console. There is a
VM userid called OPERATOR, which is usually logged on when VM IPL's.
What are you wanting your operators to do? I would not use OPERATOR as a
console, per say. I would set up a separate userid for the operators.
I'd leave OPERATOR in a disconnect mode. I guess the question is, what
do you want the operators to do on VM? Or what do you think they need to
be doing?
Steve

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
[mailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU] On
Behalf Of Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:20 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: VM operator console?

We are an MVS shop setting up a Linux under VM pilot and need to have
some procedures in place for operations. We are trying to figure out
how/where we want the operators to have console access. Right now only
the sys. progs. have any access to VM and we use a telnet session from
our desks to a VM user id or use the HMC. Is there a master console we
can setup for operations like MVS? Should we setup a userid for the
operators? Make them use the HMC?
Is there another alternative I've not mentioned and don't know about?

Thanks

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474

Re: Hardware service providers

[Mary Anne Matyaz]

Aria, I believe Mainline does it.
http://www.mainline.com/_web/home/index.html

Mary Anne

2008/10/7 Aria Bamdad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Thanks August.
>
> Aria.
>

Re: Hardware service providers

[Aria Bamdad]

Thanks August.

Aria.

Re: VM operator console?

[Kris Buelens]

One can always use the integrated 3270 console on  the HMC, then one has a
"real 3270"

2008/10/7 Scott Rohling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> I'm not sure I would rely on telnet -- the operator's should have a 'real'
> console to be able to shutdown/IPL in case of a network or TCPIP failure..
>
> Scott Rohling
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E] <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Good questions Steve. At this point we are not sure what role operations
>> will play. I guess they need to be able to shut down just in case and to
>> IPL. We don't have any experience and are just trying to think ahead. I'm
>> sure it will change 2 weeks after the Linux guest are in use.
>>
>> Sounds like a PC with a telnet session to either OPERATOR or some other ID
>> is the way to go. At least for the pilot we don't plan on using PROP as has
>> been suggested.
>>
>> Bobby Bauer
>> Center for Information Technology
>> National Institutes of Health
>> Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
>> 301-594-7474
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Gentry, Stephen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:33 AM
>> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
>> Subject: Re: VM operator console?
>>
>> I would recommend not using the HMC as an operator console. There is a
>> VM userid called OPERATOR, which is usually logged on when VM IPL's.
>> What are you wanting your operators to do? I would not use OPERATOR as a
>> console, per say. I would set up a separate userid for the operators.
>> I'd leave OPERATOR in a disconnect mode. I guess the question is, what
>> do you want the operators to do on VM? Or what do you think they need to
>> be doing?
>> Steve
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:20 AM
>> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
>> Subject: VM operator console?
>>
>> We are an MVS shop setting up a Linux under VM pilot and need to have
>> some procedures in place for operations. We are trying to figure out
>> how/where we want the operators to have console access. Right now only
>> the sys. progs. have any access to VM and we use a telnet session from
>> our desks to a VM user id or use the HMC. Is there a master console we
>> can setup for operations like MVS? Should we setup a userid for the
>> operators? Make them use the HMC?
>> Is there another alternative I've not mentioned and don't know about?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Bobby Bauer
>> Center for Information Technology
>> National Institutes of Health
>> Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
>> 301-594-7474
>>
>
>


-- 
Kris Buelens,
IBM Belgium, VM customer support

Re: Hardware service providers

[Aria Bamdad]

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 10:52:51 -0400 August Carideo said:
>I think it would have helped to state where you are located, sending you
>hardware support names from small companies from NY, NJ may not
>help you


Good point.  I am in the Washington DC Metro area.

Re: VM operator console?

[Scott Rohling]

I'm not sure I would rely on telnet -- the operator's should have a 'real'
console to be able to shutdown/IPL in case of a network or TCPIP failure..

Scott Rohling

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E] <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Good questions Steve. At this point we are not sure what role operations
> will play. I guess they need to be able to shut down just in case and to
> IPL. We don't have any experience and are just trying to think ahead. I'm
> sure it will change 2 weeks after the Linux guest are in use.
>
> Sounds like a PC with a telnet session to either OPERATOR or some other ID
> is the way to go. At least for the pilot we don't plan on using PROP as has
> been suggested.
>
> Bobby Bauer
> Center for Information Technology
> National Institutes of Health
> Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
> 301-594-7474
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Gentry, Stephen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:33 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Re: VM operator console?
>
> I would recommend not using the HMC as an operator console. There is a
> VM userid called OPERATOR, which is usually logged on when VM IPL's.
> What are you wanting your operators to do? I would not use OPERATOR as a
> console, per say. I would set up a separate userid for the operators.
> I'd leave OPERATOR in a disconnect mode. I guess the question is, what
> do you want the operators to do on VM? Or what do you think they need to
> be doing?
> Steve
>
> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:20 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: VM operator console?
>
> We are an MVS shop setting up a Linux under VM pilot and need to have
> some procedures in place for operations. We are trying to figure out
> how/where we want the operators to have console access. Right now only
> the sys. progs. have any access to VM and we use a telnet session from
> our desks to a VM user id or use the HMC. Is there a master console we
> can setup for operations like MVS? Should we setup a userid for the
> operators? Make them use the HMC?
> Is there another alternative I've not mentioned and don't know about?
>
> Thanks
>
> Bobby Bauer
> Center for Information Technology
> National Institutes of Health
> Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
> 301-594-7474
>

Re: VM operator console?

[Brian Nielsen]

We run z/Linux under z/VM in one LPAR and several z/OS LPARs.  All access
 
is via TN3270 sessions.  While the operators have consoles for each z/OS 

image and several other sessions to various z/OS LPARs, their z/VM sessio
n 
normally sits at the VM logo.  The OPERATOR userid runs disconnected and 

the operations staff use other userids that have been set up for them 
(e.g. OP2, OP3) when they need to run VM backups or shutdown the system. 
 
Other than that they don't have any real need to interact with VM and 
nothing useful for them to monitor from VM.  Monitoring the status of the
 
applications running in a z/Linux guest is done by using the applications
 
from the normal end user perspective via a standard browser.

YMMV.

Brian Nielsen

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 10:19:34 -0400, Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E] 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>We are an MVS shop setting up a Linux under VM pilot and need to have 

some procedures in place for operations. We are trying to figure out 
how/where we want the operators to have console access. Right now only th
e 
sys. progs. have any access to VM and we use a telnet session from our 

desks to a VM user id or use the HMC. Is there a master console we can 

setup for operations like MVS? Should we setup a userid for the operators
? 
Make them use the HMC?
>Is there another alternative I've not mentioned and don't know about?
>
>Thanks
>
>Bobby Bauer
>Center for Information Technology
>National Institutes of Health
>Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
>301-594-7474

Re: Hardware service providers

[August Carideo]

I think it would have helped to state where you are located, sending you
hardware support names from small companies from NY, NJ may not
help you



   
 Aria Bamdad   
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 .gwu.edu>  To 
 Sent by: The IBM  IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 
 z/VM Operating cc 
 System
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject 
 ARK.EDU>  Hardware service providers  
   
   
 10/07/2008 10:49  
 AM
   
   
 Please respond to 
   The IBM z/VM
 Operating System  
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 ARK.EDU>  
   
   




Hi,

Sorry this is off topic.

I wanted to know who others use (other than IBM) to provide hardware
service support for their IBM equpipment such as processors and disks.

For years I have been keeping our CPU under IBM service but the recent
numbers I am getting from IBM basically make it impossible for a smaller
shop to use zSeries hardware.

If others are using non-IBM service, I would like to know who and
what is your experience with the company.  Please reply directly to
me as I do not want to bother the list any more than I have already.

Thanks in advance,
Aria

Re: VM operator console?

[Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]]

Good questions Steve. At this point we are not sure what role operations will 
play. I guess they need to be able to shut down just in case and to IPL. We 
don't have any experience and are just trying to think ahead. I'm sure it will 
change 2 weeks after the Linux guest are in use.

Sounds like a PC with a telnet session to either OPERATOR or some other ID is 
the way to go. At least for the pilot we don't plan on using PROP as has been 
suggested.

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474



-Original Message-
From: Gentry, Stephen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:33 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: VM operator console?

I would recommend not using the HMC as an operator console. There is a
VM userid called OPERATOR, which is usually logged on when VM IPL's.
What are you wanting your operators to do? I would not use OPERATOR as a
console, per say. I would set up a separate userid for the operators.
I'd leave OPERATOR in a disconnect mode. I guess the question is, what
do you want the operators to do on VM? Or what do you think they need to
be doing?
Steve

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:20 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: VM operator console?

We are an MVS shop setting up a Linux under VM pilot and need to have
some procedures in place for operations. We are trying to figure out
how/where we want the operators to have console access. Right now only
the sys. progs. have any access to VM and we use a telnet session from
our desks to a VM user id or use the HMC. Is there a master console we
can setup for operations like MVS? Should we setup a userid for the
operators? Make them use the HMC?
Is there another alternative I've not mentioned and don't know about?

Thanks

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474

Hardware service providers

[Aria Bamdad]

Hi,

Sorry this is off topic.

I wanted to know who others use (other than IBM) to provide hardware
service support for their IBM equpipment such as processors and disks.

For years I have been keeping our CPU under IBM service but the recent
numbers I am getting from IBM basically make it impossible for a smaller
shop to use zSeries hardware.

If others are using non-IBM service, I would like to know who and
what is your experience with the company.  Please reply directly to
me as I do not want to bother the list any more than I have already.

Thanks in advance,
Aria

Re: VM operator console?

[Gentry, Stephen]

I would recommend not using the HMC as an operator console. There is a
VM userid called OPERATOR, which is usually logged on when VM IPL's.
What are you wanting your operators to do? I would not use OPERATOR as a
console, per say. I would set up a separate userid for the operators.
I'd leave OPERATOR in a disconnect mode. I guess the question is, what
do you want the operators to do on VM? Or what do you think they need to
be doing?
Steve

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:20 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: VM operator console?

We are an MVS shop setting up a Linux under VM pilot and need to have
some procedures in place for operations. We are trying to figure out
how/where we want the operators to have console access. Right now only
the sys. progs. have any access to VM and we use a telnet session from
our desks to a VM user id or use the HMC. Is there a master console we
can setup for operations like MVS? Should we setup a userid for the
operators? Make them use the HMC?
Is there another alternative I've not mentioned and don't know about?

Thanks

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474

Re: VM operator console?

[August Carideo]

the operators usually use the supplied operator ID in the VM directory
it can be restricted as you prefer with letter class on the ID
they can also use OP1

 USER OPERATOR xx  32M 32M ABCDEFG



   
 "Bauer, Bobby 
 (NIH/CIT) [E]"
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]  To 
 .gov> IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 
 Sent by: The IBM   cc 
 z/VM Operating
 SystemSubject 
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] VM operator console?
 ARK.EDU>  
   
   
 10/07/2008 10:20  
 AM
   
   
 Please respond to 
   The IBM z/VM
 Operating System  
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 ARK.EDU>  
   
   




We are an MVS shop setting up a Linux under VM pilot and need to have some
procedures in place for operations. We are trying to figure out how/where
we want the operators to have console access. Right now only the sys.
progs. have any access to VM and we use a telnet session from our desks to
a VM user id or use the HMC. Is there a master console we can setup for
operations like MVS? Should we setup a userid for the operators? Make them
use the HMC?
Is there another alternative I've not mentioned and don't know about?

Thanks

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474

Re: VM operator console?

[Rob van der Heij]

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We are an MVS shop setting up a Linux under VM pilot and need to have some 
> procedures in place for operations. We are trying to figure out how/where we 
> want the operators to have console access. Right now only the sys. progs. 
> have any access to VM and we use a telnet session from our desks to a VM user 
> id or use the HMC. Is there a master console we can setup for operations like 
> MVS? Should we setup a userid for the operators? Make them use the HMC?
> Is there another alternative I've not mentioned and don't know about?

I'd say the normal approach is to run PROP in the OPERATOR userid and
route important messages to a separate CMS user (the logical
operator).  With proper access that user could also browse the PROP
logging to see what happened. And it allows the logical operator (or
assigned others) to issue privileged commands via PROP.
You could also route the messages to a NetView console, but I think
that requires VTAM on VM so that may not be an option. There are also
separate products for VM to provide a full screen operator console. My
experience is that most shops can keep the number of unfiltered VM
messages small enough that a separate console is rarely justified.
-Rob

VM operator console?

[Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]]

We are an MVS shop setting up a Linux under VM pilot and need to have some 
procedures in place for operations. We are trying to figure out how/where we 
want the operators to have console access. Right now only the sys. progs. have 
any access to VM and we use a telnet session from our desks to a VM user id or 
use the HMC. Is there a master console we can setup for operations like MVS? 
Should we setup a userid for the operators? Make them use the HMC?
Is there another alternative I've not mentioned and don't know about?

Thanks

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474

Re: Segments and COLD START

[David Boyes]

You're correct -- old finger macro (or brain driving fingers...). CLEAN
will kill it, although COLD will still occasionally lead to situations
where CLEAN becomes necessary. 

In either case, you fix it with VMFBUILD.