Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid?
David Boyes wrote: If these are the ones that are five or six inches long with a swab on one end, Radio Shack used to carry them. No longer (at least not in DC). They claim they discontinued them when they stopped selling reel-to-reel tape. YMMV. -- db Might be worth a call to Precision Motor Works in Hudson, Ma. (978-562-4420)
Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid?
David Boyes wrote: Pretty scary that the circa 1970s volumes actually seem to have a higher readability index so far. Not too surprising to those who dabble in pro audio, though. In the late 70s-early 80s tape manufacturers developed new/improved formulae for tape backings. Of course these turned into a disaster in the pro-audio world with the infamous "sticky shed syndrome" and led to "tape baking" which would allow the tapes to be momentarily usable enough to be copied. Audio tech guru Eddie Cilletti used to have some details on hows and whys of this on his website. As I recall, Owen-Corning mad a food dehydrator which worked quite nicely for the "baking" method.
Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid?
The really good cleaning fluid, was issued by STK and a few other third party hardware vendors, was Freon based. But you cannot get it anymore, it has been banned because it damages the ozone layer. So your stuck with denatured alcohol now. Leif David Boyes wrote: Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:48:39 -0400 From: David Boyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_=3D_NextPart_001_01C6AB5B.9D13FAC6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone still know of a source that sells 3420 cleaning fluid and supplies? In the process of working through these old tapes from Princeton, I'm burning through the small supply I have of the stuff rapidly (2 pints so far), and still have a few thousand tapes to go.=3D20 =3D20 The amount of oxide flaking and just general destruction these tapes have is amazing - gunk everywhere. Hats off to the data recovery folks - I'd really hate to have to do this all the time. Freeze drying, careful rereading, multiple retries... sheesh. Phase of the moon for some of these volumes.=3D20 =3D20 Pretty scary that the circa 1970s volumes actually seem to have a higher readability index so far.=3D20 =3D20 David Boyes Sine Nomine Associates -- ?Leif Rundberget MVS, VM, Linux Operating Systems Support Mainframe Network Administrator State of Colorado Department of Personnel & Administration (DPA) Division of Information Technologies (DoIT) 690 Kipling Street Lakewood, CO 80215-5844 Phone: (303) 239-4357 E-mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the Colorado Public Records law. It may be subject to monitoring and disclosed to third parties, including law enforcement personnel by an authorized state official.
Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid?
I got this from my IBM CE this a.m. Try to get 97% pure isopropyl alcohol Regards, John Pooler Customer engineer At 03:15 PM 7/19/2006, you wrote: The pint can I have lists isopropyl alcohol, some carbon tet, and a few other chemicals. If the alcohol is Good Enough, I can get that.=20 If you happen to be sending a note to your CE, a quick check would be appreciated.=20 David Boyes Sine Nomine Associates > -Original Message- > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Jim Bohnsack > Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 2:30 PM > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU > Subject: Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid? >=20 > I'll bet that you could find a retired CE to verify that. You could > probably get an answer from IBM as well. Want me to send a note to our > CE? > Jim >=20 > At 02:10 PM 7/19/2006, you wrote: > >As far as I can recall, DB, the cleaning fluid in the nice IBM pint > >cans, was nothing more than denatured alcohol. IBM packaged it for those > >shops that had an "all-blue" mandate from management as far as IT > >equipment went:-) > > > >The stiff cotton swabs that you use to clean the head could be replaced, > >I think, by some soft cotton fabric on a medical tongue depressor. > > > >Thanks, too, for doing this recovery work.are you going to put the > >recovered tape files out anyplace for others to access? > > > >DJ > > > >David Boyes wrote: > > > Does anyone still know of a source that sells 3420 cleaning fluid and > > > supplies? In the process of working through these old tapes from > > > Princeton, I'm burning through the small supply I have of the stuff > > > rapidly (2 pints so far), and still have a few thousand tapes to go. > > > > > > > > > > > > The amount of oxide flaking and just general destruction these tapes > > > have is amazing - gunk everywhere. Hats off to the data recovery folks > - > > > I'd really hate to have to do this all the time. Freeze drying, > careful > > > rereading, multiple retries... sheesh. Phase of the moon for some of > these > > > volumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty scary that the circa 1970s volumes actually seem to have a > higher > > > readability index so far. > > > > > > > > > > > > David Boyes > > > > > > Sine Nomine Associates > > > > > > > > > >=20 > Jim Bohnsack > Cornell Univ. > (607) 255-1760 >=20 >=20 Jim Bohnsack Cornell Univ. (607) 255-1760
Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid?
> If these are the ones that are five or six inches long with a swab on one > end, Radio Shack used to carry them. No longer (at least not in DC). They claim they discontinued them when they stopped selling reel-to-reel tape. YMMV. -- db
Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid?
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:10:56 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: >The stiff cotton swabs that you use to clean the head could be replaced, >I think, by some soft cotton fabric on a medical tongue depressor. > If these are the ones that are five or six inches long with a swab on one end, Radio Shack used to carry them. Lloyd
Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid?
On Jul 19, 2006, at 2:11 PM, David Boyes wrote: Are there any PUT tape with service for non-copyright software in there. COul they be released. I only as the VM/370R6 we have is at (I think) L620 but the latest tape we have is 616 There are service tapes for early releases of VM/370 in the collection, but I'd need written permission from IBM to give them to you (or anyone, for that matter). Same with TSS source and object, etc, etc. All I have permission to do at the moment is preserve anything that's still readable and transfer it to easier-to-handle media (currently AWSTAPE files on CD). Old as these tapes are, they're still covered by the IBM Customer Agreement, and worse yet, somebody ELSE's (ie, Princeton University) customer agreement. It's not my decision to make, and I doubt that the Princeton board of regents is interested in allowing me to decide for them (or quite frankly, whether they would even understand the question). You could lobby the IBM archivist, though -- the more voices, the more likely they might be to allow it. Although, prior to VM370R6, at least, system software was not explicitly copyrighted by IBM, and because it was prior to the US becoming a signatory to the Berne convention, it is therefore in the public domain. Exactly what the cutoff *is* has been discussed on the Hercules list, but I'm pretty sure someone here can summarize. The short answer is that there is very likely a certain amount of stuff on those tapes that *is* redistributable, and it's relatively easy to ascertain what, as it will be materials from before some date (which I do not know but I'm sure someone will pipe up with the answer) that lacks an explicit copyright notice. Adam
Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid?
> Are there any PUT tape with service for non-copyright > software in there. COul they be released. > I only as the VM/370R6 we have is at (I think) L620 > but the latest tape we have is 616 There are service tapes for early releases of VM/370 in the collection, but I'd need written permission from IBM to give them to you (or anyone, for that matter). Same with TSS source and object, etc, etc. All I have permission to do at the moment is preserve anything that's still readable and transfer it to easier-to-handle media (currently AWSTAPE files on CD). Old as these tapes are, they're still covered by the IBM Customer Agreement, and worse yet, somebody ELSE's (ie, Princeton University) customer agreement. It's not my decision to make, and I doubt that the Princeton board of regents is interested in allowing me to decide for them (or quite frankly, whether they would even understand the question). You could lobby the IBM archivist, though -- the more voices, the more likely they might be to allow it. Sorry, -- db
Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid?
> I plan to publish at least the tape maps of the few > readable volumes in > the whole mess (about 1 tape in 15 are actually > readable so far). I > doubt I'll be able to provide the content unless the > IBM archivist tells > me in writing that they really don't care about 30+ > year old PUT tapes > any more. > David, Are there any PUT tape with service for non-copyright software in there. COul they be released. I only as the VM/370R6 we have is at (I think) L620 but the latest tape we have is 616 Dave P.S. If I have to wait for the final list thats OK. I know how long it takes to sort through my CD collection, never mind real tapes.. > David Boyes > Sine Nomine Associates > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid?
I have some old stuff from STK.. From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:51 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid? Try tape head cleaner for audio tape decks, that might work okay for what you're doing. David Boyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System 07/19/2006 01:48 PM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid? Does anyone still know of a source that sells 3420 cleaning fluid and supplies? In the process of working through these old tapes from Princeton, I’m burning through the small supply I have of the stuff rapidly (2 pints so far), and still have a few thousand tapes to go. The amount of oxide flaking and just general destruction these tapes have is amazing – gunk everywhere. Hats off to the data recovery folks – I’d really hate to have to do this all the time. Freeze drying, careful rereading, multiple retries… sheesh. Phase of the moon for some of these volumes. Pretty scary that the circa 1970s volumes actually seem to have a higher readability index so far. David Boyes Sine Nomine Associates
Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid?
The pint can I have lists isopropyl alcohol, some carbon tet, and a few other chemicals. If the alcohol is Good Enough, I can get that. If you happen to be sending a note to your CE, a quick check would be appreciated. David Boyes Sine Nomine Associates > -Original Message- > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Jim Bohnsack > Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 2:30 PM > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU > Subject: Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid? > > I'll bet that you could find a retired CE to verify that. You could > probably get an answer from IBM as well. Want me to send a note to our > CE? > Jim > > At 02:10 PM 7/19/2006, you wrote: > >As far as I can recall, DB, the cleaning fluid in the nice IBM pint > >cans, was nothing more than denatured alcohol. IBM packaged it for those > >shops that had an "all-blue" mandate from management as far as IT > >equipment went:-) > > > >The stiff cotton swabs that you use to clean the head could be replaced, > >I think, by some soft cotton fabric on a medical tongue depressor. > > > >Thanks, too, for doing this recovery work.are you going to put the > >recovered tape files out anyplace for others to access? > > > >DJ > > > >David Boyes wrote: > > > Does anyone still know of a source that sells 3420 cleaning fluid and > > > supplies? In the process of working through these old tapes from > > > Princeton, I'm burning through the small supply I have of the stuff > > > rapidly (2 pints so far), and still have a few thousand tapes to go. > > > > > > > > > > > > The amount of oxide flaking and just general destruction these tapes > > > have is amazing - gunk everywhere. Hats off to the data recovery folks > - > > > I'd really hate to have to do this all the time. Freeze drying, > careful > > > rereading, multiple retries... sheesh. Phase of the moon for some of > these > > > volumes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty scary that the circa 1970s volumes actually seem to have a > higher > > > readability index so far. > > > > > > > > > > > > David Boyes > > > > > > Sine Nomine Associates > > > > > > > > > > > Jim Bohnsack > Cornell Univ. > (607) 255-1760 > >
Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid?
> As far as I can recall, DB, the cleaning fluid in the nice IBM pint > cans, was nothing more than denatured alcohol. IBM packaged it for those > shops that had an "all-blue" mandate from management as far as IT > equipment went:-) OK. Isopropyl alcohol is easy to come by. > Thanks, too, for doing this recovery work.are you going to put the > recovered tape files out anyplace for others to access? That's a bit more complex. I can't redistribute the IBM licensed stuff, obviously, and a lot of the more interesting historical stuff is either IBM-originated, or belongs to various people individually and collectively, some of which are no longer with us, so it's hard to get their permission. I plan to publish at least the tape maps of the few readable volumes in the whole mess (about 1 tape in 15 are actually readable so far). I doubt I'll be able to provide the content unless the IBM archivist tells me in writing that they really don't care about 30+ year old PUT tapes any more. David Boyes Sine Nomine Associates
Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid?
Try tape head cleaner for audio tape decks, that might work okay for what you're doing. David Boyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System 07/19/2006 01:48 PM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid? Does anyone still know of a source that sells 3420 cleaning fluid and supplies? In the process of working through these old tapes from Princeton, I’m burning through the small supply I have of the stuff rapidly (2 pints so far), and still have a few thousand tapes to go. The amount of oxide flaking and just general destruction these tapes have is amazing – gunk everywhere. Hats off to the data recovery folks – I’d really hate to have to do this all the time. Freeze drying, careful rereading, multiple retries… sheesh. Phase of the moon for some of these volumes. Pretty scary that the circa 1970s volumes actually seem to have a higher readability index so far. David Boyes Sine Nomine Associates
Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid?
I'll bet that you could find a retired CE to verify that. You could probably get an answer from IBM as well. Want me to send a note to our CE? Jim At 02:10 PM 7/19/2006, you wrote: As far as I can recall, DB, the cleaning fluid in the nice IBM pint cans, was nothing more than denatured alcohol. IBM packaged it for those shops that had an "all-blue" mandate from management as far as IT equipment went:-) The stiff cotton swabs that you use to clean the head could be replaced, I think, by some soft cotton fabric on a medical tongue depressor. Thanks, too, for doing this recovery work.are you going to put the recovered tape files out anyplace for others to access? DJ David Boyes wrote: > Does anyone still know of a source that sells 3420 cleaning fluid and > supplies? In the process of working through these old tapes from > Princeton, Im burning through the small supply I have of the stuff > rapidly (2 pints so far), and still have a few thousand tapes to go. > > > > The amount of oxide flaking and just general destruction these tapes > have is amazing gunk everywhere. Hats off to the data recovery folks > Id really hate to have to do this all the time. Freeze drying, careful > rereading, multiple retries sheesh. Phase of the moon for some of these > volumes. > > > > Pretty scary that the circa 1970s volumes actually seem to have a higher > readability index so far. > > > > David Boyes > > Sine Nomine Associates > > > Jim Bohnsack Cornell Univ. (607) 255-1760
Re: More Ancient History: source for 3420 cleaning fluid?
As far as I can recall, DB, the cleaning fluid in the nice IBM pint cans, was nothing more than denatured alcohol. IBM packaged it for those shops that had an "all-blue" mandate from management as far as IT equipment went:-) The stiff cotton swabs that you use to clean the head could be replaced, I think, by some soft cotton fabric on a medical tongue depressor. Thanks, too, for doing this recovery work.are you going to put the recovered tape files out anyplace for others to access? DJ David Boyes wrote: Does anyone still know of a source that sells 3420 cleaning fluid and supplies? In the process of working through these old tapes from Princeton, I’m burning through the small supply I have of the stuff rapidly (2 pints so far), and still have a few thousand tapes to go. The amount of oxide flaking and just general destruction these tapes have is amazing – gunk everywhere. Hats off to the data recovery folks – I’d really hate to have to do this all the time. Freeze drying, careful rereading, multiple retries… sheesh. Phase of the moon for some of these volumes. Pretty scary that the circa 1970s volumes actually seem to have a higher readability index so far. David Boyes Sine Nomine Associates
