Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR
> Besides unwanted terminal interrupts, the S/A programs didn't used to be > too awfully discriminating as to what type of device they saw an > interrupt on. I remember, once "a long time ago and far far away", > having a hard time getting a S/A program, probably DDR, ipled until I > disabled the interface to a 3088 channel to channel box. The S/A > program saw the interrupt from the 3088 and latched on to that address, > trying to respond to it. I don't have any idea if the S/A programs have > gotten any more discriminating or if the 3088 was the only other device, > besides a 327x type of terminal, that could generate an interrupt that > looked the same. > Jim 5080s and 5081s would also behave that way (mostly if they had terminal sessions defined in the controllers, but occasionally just to be a PITA). We also had some fun back in the Rice days chasing down someone coming in via a 7171 dialup line once (procedures were later changed to flip the offline switch on the terminal controllers before using the standalone utilities).
Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR
Besides unwanted terminal interrupts, the S/A programs didn't used to be too awfully discriminating as to what type of device they saw an interrupt on. I remember, once "a long time ago and far far away", having a hard time getting a S/A program, probably DDR, ipled until I disabled the interface to a 3088 channel to channel box. The S/A program saw the interrupt from the 3088 and latched on to that address, trying to respond to it. I don't have any idea if the S/A programs have gotten any more discriminating or if the 3088 was the only other device, besides a 327x type of terminal, that could generate an interrupt that looked the same. Jim David Boyes wrote: We are looking into updating our procedures should a failure requiring barefoot executions of ICFDSF and DDR occur. Do you recommend having a single IPL tape with both versions on it? Do you recommend an IPL tape for each product? Either will work, but I make separate tapes and put them in different drives during recovery. If you're using the SA tools, things are badly broken, and the SA versions of these utilities are pretty sensitive to things like Enter at the wrong time, at which point you get to re-IPL. It's a lot easier to rewind a tape with one utility on it, and you can IPL the one you want w/o having to go through the other one to get there.=20 Also, remember that the SA versions of these tools wake up at the first terminal interrupt following IPL and use that as the console. While this is not as big of a deal as it used to be when there were lots of locally attached terminals, you do run a small risk of some random anxious user getting control of the system if they hit Enter at exactly the right time. The separate tape minimizes (but does not eliminate) that possibility.=20 Do you recommend running them from an area within the ZVM PARM disk(s)? Well, if things are so far gone that you need the SA tools, then the parm disks are probably toast too, so while it's useful to have them there, it doesn't really buy you much, IMHO. You're better off having a 1 pack system that you can restore to a spare volume, then use that to run the non-SA DDR in parallel to restore the rest of the system. It's a lot faster.=20 Come to my talk at WAVV about this..8-) -- Jim Bohnsack Cornell University (607) 255-1760 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR
> > Belt, suspenders, superglue if I can... > And never leave home without duct tape! See you all in a week and a half after Pesach / Passover. (unless I catch an interesting email from home). Shimon -- Shimon Lebowitzmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] VM System Programmer . Israel Police National HQ. http://www.poboxes.com/shimonpgp Jerusalem, Israel phone: +972 2 542-9877 fax: 542-9308
Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR
> I have found having ICKDSF on the PARM disk to be very helpful when I > suddenly found myself without > a PAGE disk. Oh, there's always going to be exceptions. It certainly does no harm to have DSF and DDR on the PARM disks. I don't generally, because I can easily walk to the tape drives and it makes me sure to have a good copy of the DSF/DDR tape pair. 8-) > Don't ask what happened to the PAGE pack. :( One of those days, I bet. -- db
Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR
I have found having ICKDSF on the PARM disk to be very helpful when I suddenly found myself without a PAGE disk. I did an IPL from the VM res pack selected the ICKDSF module from the PARM disk, formated a PAGE disk, did a second IPL from the VM res pack this time selecting the CP module and VM cam up. :) Don't ask what happened to the PAGE pack. :( [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you recommend running them from an area within the ZVM PARM disk(s)? Well, if things are so far gone that you need the SA tools, then the parm disks are probably toast too, so while it's useful to have them there, it doesn't really buy you much, IMHO. You're better off having a 1 pack system that you can restore to a spare volume, then use that to run the non-SA DDR in parallel to restore the rest of the system. It's a lot faster. -- Stephen Frazier Information Technology Unit Oklahoma Department of Corrections 3400 Martin Luther King Oklahoma City, Ok, 73111-4298 Tel.: (405) 425-2549 Fax: (405) 425-2554 Pager: (405) 690-1828 email: stevef%doc.state.ok.us
Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR
> We are looking into updating our procedures should a failure requiring > barefoot executions of ICFDSF and DDR occur. > Do you recommend having a single IPL tape with both versions on it? > Do you recommend an IPL tape for each product? Either will work, but I make separate tapes and put them in different drives during recovery. If you're using the SA tools, things are badly broken, and the SA versions of these utilities are pretty sensitive to things like Enter at the wrong time, at which point you get to re-IPL. It's a lot easier to rewind a tape with one utility on it, and you can IPL the one you want w/o having to go through the other one to get there. Also, remember that the SA versions of these tools wake up at the first terminal interrupt following IPL and use that as the console. While this is not as big of a deal as it used to be when there were lots of locally attached terminals, you do run a small risk of some random anxious user getting control of the system if they hit Enter at exactly the right time. The separate tape minimizes (but does not eliminate) that possibility. > Do you recommend running them from an area within the ZVM PARM disk(s)? Well, if things are so far gone that you need the SA tools, then the parm disks are probably toast too, so while it's useful to have them there, it doesn't really buy you much, IMHO. You're better off having a 1 pack system that you can restore to a spare volume, then use that to run the non-SA DDR in parallel to restore the rest of the system. It's a lot faster. Come to my talk at WAVV about this..8-)
Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR
First thing you have to do is IPL your sysres volume with a LOADPARM of a console address. This brings up the StandAlone IPL program which allows a selection of modules, a specification of configuration files, system cons ole address etc. Then it is PF9, highlight the module you wish to IPL and the n PF11 to select it and then PF10 to load (I think, I do this twice a year at DR exercises). I had to do something special to get the ICKDSFSA MODULE created, but the steps were documented somewhere not too hard to find. The DDR module is j ust a copy from the S-Disk. Be sure to refresh both of these whenever you go into production with a new maintenance level. Last maintenance level file s on CF2 with latest on CF1. /Tom Kern /301-903-2211 On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 14:42:28 -0400, Stracka, James (GTI) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Yes. Instead of do select the MODULE with then > > >-Original Message- >From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of Hughes, Jim - OIT > >Are you able to IPL these utilities from the PARM disk? > > >Jim Hughes >603-271-5586 > >=>-Original Message- >=>From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >On =>Behalf Of Thomas Kern >=> >=>My away kit has two copies of an IPLable tape, first file is ICKDSF, >seco= =>nd =>file is DDR, third file is a DDR backup of a small on e pack >z/VM system. => =>I also have both of these utilities on the PARM di sks >of all of my z/VM =>systems. => =>Belt, suspenders, superglue if I >can... => =>/Tom Kern =>/301-903-2211 => >
Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR
For those of you who run CA's HiDRO, it too can be IPL'd from the PARM disk to restore HiDRO backups and/or duplicate DASD volumes without a running operating system. Of course like DDR and ICKDSF, it can also be IPL'd from tape either "Stand Alone" or in a virtual machine. JR JR (Steven) Imler CA Senior Software Engineer Tel: +1 703 708 3479 Fax: +1 703 708 3267 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stracka, James (GTI) Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 02:42 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR Yes. Instead of do select the MODULE with then -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hughes, Jim - OIT Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 2:37 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR Are you able to IPL these utilities from the PARM disk? Jim Hughes 603-271-5586 "There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about." John von Neumann =>-Original Message- =>From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On =>Behalf Of Thomas Kern =>Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 1:21 PM =>To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU =>Subject: Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR => =>My away kit has two copies of an IPLable tape, first file is ICKDSF, seco= =>nd =>file is DDR, third file is a DDR backup of a small one pack z/VM system. => =>I also have both of these utilities on the PARM disks of all of my z/VM =>systems. => =>Belt, suspenders, superglue if I can... => =>/Tom Kern =>/301-903-2211 => If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, please notify the sender, delete it and do not read, act upon, print, disclose, copy, retain or redistribute it. Click here for important additional terms relating to this e-mail. http://www.ml.com/email_terms/
Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR
Yes. Instead of do select the MODULE with then -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hughes, Jim - OIT Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 2:37 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR Are you able to IPL these utilities from the PARM disk? Jim Hughes 603-271-5586 "There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about." John von Neumann =>-Original Message- =>From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On =>Behalf Of Thomas Kern =>Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 1:21 PM =>To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU =>Subject: Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR => =>My away kit has two copies of an IPLable tape, first file is ICKDSF, seco= =>nd =>file is DDR, third file is a DDR backup of a small one pack z/VM system. => =>I also have both of these utilities on the PARM disks of all of my z/VM =>systems. => =>Belt, suspenders, superglue if I can... => =>/Tom Kern =>/301-903-2211 => If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, please notify the sender, delete it and do not read, act upon, print, disclose, copy, retain or redistribute it. Click here for important additional terms relating to this e-mail. http://www.ml.com/email_terms/
Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR
Are you able to IPL these utilities from the PARM disk? Jim Hughes 603-271-5586 "There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about." John von Neumann =>-Original Message- =>From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On =>Behalf Of Thomas Kern =>Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 1:21 PM =>To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU =>Subject: Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR => =>My away kit has two copies of an IPLable tape, first file is ICKDSF, seco= =>nd =>file is DDR, third file is a DDR backup of a small one pack z/VM system. => =>I also have both of these utilities on the PARM disks of all of my z/VM =>systems. => =>Belt, suspenders, superglue if I can... => =>/Tom Kern =>/301-903-2211 =>
Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR
I like your thinking. I do the same except I also have tapes with just ICKDSF on them. During an emergency you never want to go looking for a copy of ICKDSF. Or try to remember where you put it. So, put it everywhere. :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My away kit has two copies of an IPLable tape, first file is ICKDSF, second file is DDR, third file is a DDR backup of a small one pack z/VM system. I also have both of these utilities on the PARM disks of all of my z/VM systems. Belt, suspenders, superglue if I can... /Tom Kern /301-903-2211 On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:33:24 -0400, Hughes, Jim - OIT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: We are looking into updating our procedures should a failure requiring barefoot executions of ICFDSF and DDR occur. Do you recommend having a single IPL tape with both versions on it? Do you recommend an IPL tape for each product? Do you recommend running them from an area within the ZVM PARM disk(s)? None of the above? Both of the Above? Something not mentioned above? Wrong question asked?? We are running Z/VM 5.2 on a Z890 processor with a DS8100 for our dasd. It always pays to nudge the experts on matters such as this. Jim Hughes 603-271-5586 -- Stephen Frazier Information Technology Unit Oklahoma Department of Corrections 3400 Martin Luther King Oklahoma City, Ok, 73111-4298 Tel.: (405) 425-2549 Fax: (405) 425-2554 Pager: (405) 690-1828 email: stevef%doc.state.ok.us
Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR
I would recommend having both programs on a tape. I have not tried putting something like that on parm disk(s). I would also recommend having more than one S/A tape, just in case. Jim Bohnsack Hughes, Jim - OIT wrote: We are looking into updating our procedures should a failure requiring barefoot executions of ICFDSF and DDR occur.=20 Do you recommend having a single IPL tape with both versions on it? Do you recommend an IPL tape for each product?=20 Do you recommend running them from an area within the ZVM PARM disk(s)? None of the above?=20 Both of the Above? Something not mentioned above?=20 Wrong question asked?? We are running Z/VM 5.2 on a Z890 processor with a DS8100 for our dasd. It always pays to nudge the experts on matters such as this.=20 =20 Jim Hughes 603-271-5586 "There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about." John von Neumann
Re: Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR
My away kit has two copies of an IPLable tape, first file is ICKDSF, seco nd file is DDR, third file is a DDR backup of a small one pack z/VM system. I also have both of these utilities on the PARM disks of all of my z/VM systems. Belt, suspenders, superglue if I can... /Tom Kern /301-903-2211 On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:33:24 -0400, Hughes, Jim - OIT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >We are looking into updating our procedures should a failure requiring >barefoot executions of ICFDSF and DDR occur. > >Do you recommend having a single IPL tape with both versions on it? >Do you recommend an IPL tape for each product? >Do you recommend running them from an area within the ZVM PARM disk(s)? >None of the above? >Both of the Above? >Something not mentioned above? >Wrong question asked?? > >We are running Z/VM 5.2 on a Z890 processor with a DS8100 for our dasd. >It always pays to nudge the experts on matters such as this. > > >Jim Hughes >603-271-5586
Stand alone versions of ICKDSF and DDR
We are looking into updating our procedures should a failure requiring barefoot executions of ICFDSF and DDR occur. Do you recommend having a single IPL tape with both versions on it? Do you recommend an IPL tape for each product? Do you recommend running them from an area within the ZVM PARM disk(s)? None of the above? Both of the Above? Something not mentioned above? Wrong question asked?? We are running Z/VM 5.2 on a Z890 processor with a DS8100 for our dasd. It always pays to nudge the experts on matters such as this. Jim Hughes 603-271-5586 "There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about." John von Neumann
