Re: New Mac platform

[Mystic Prowler]

Not really. My primary desktop system is an iMac G4 17" 1.25Ghz, and my most
powerful is a MBP intel i7 Mid-2010 15", yet i use my iMac more than my MBP.


Using PowerPC is never over... And it will never will be. I am keeping all
of my PowerPC machines, and intels too. I am waiting for Apple to go back to
PowerPC or to abandon intel.

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Re: New Mac platform

[Steven]

On Oct 29, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Dan wrote:

> Back in the PPC days, we "considered" buying AppleCare because it often never 
> got used.  These days, I will not sell or recommend ANY x86 based Mac without 
> it.

My Intel iMac has given me much less trouble than my iBook G4, and my father's 
MacBook has lasted much longer than his iBook. From my experience Intel Macs 
have been much more reliable than PowerPC models, though I attribute that to 
the constant refining and improvement of the designs, not which chip the 
computers use.

I must say, though, that PowerPC laptops were much more usable, with removable 
batteries, PC cards, and a huge amount of ports. Now the side of the 17" 
MacBook Pro looks like an Ice iBook G3, very simple in comparison to the side 
of the 17" PowerBook G4. Sure, the new one may have more USB ports, but I'd 
rather have FireWire 400, S-Video, a real DVI port, and a PC card port any day 
(and, while I think dial-up should have been vanquished a decade ago, it is 
nice to have a modem for when I'm somewhere that doesn't have real internet, or 
if I need to send a fax).

And, of course, PowerPC computers had much better names. "MacBook" sounds like 
what a Dell hacked to run OS X should be called, and Mac Pro is even more 
uninspired. PowerBook was one of the best product names of all time and I still 
can't believe that Apple just abandoned it for such an awful name, plus now the 
grid that Steve Jobs made such a big deal over no longer works (sure Mac Pro 
and MacBook Pro match, but what is iMac doing there?).

PowerPC will always be my favorite, but when even the newest models are four 
years old (with designs that are five years old), they are quickly becoming 
unusable for many purposes. Most modern video sites like Netflix and Hulu won't 
even run properly, if at all, on PowerPC. At least it looks like my PowerBook 
G4 will still serve me well as a secondary laptop for a while longer, but the 
days of being able to use a PowerPC computer as a primary desktop in the modern 
world are over.

Steven

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Re: Strange Glitch in "Activity Monitor"

[krys weaver]

it's calling home read my tag lines

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Mystic Prowler wrote:

> I was using frostwire earlier and sometimes the program takes too long to
> close, so sometimes I open Activity Monitor to close it. I clicked here and
> there, and looked carefully at a few things. This is a strange glitch I
> found. I looked at the shared memory size in the iTunes window, and it
> showed: 16,777,216.00TB of shared memory size. What is going on? I can
> provide a screenshot, which is real. One moment later it jumps to 4.001 KB
> of shared memory, then 6GB of shared memory, then back to that crazy number.
>
>
> http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/14/69/07/47/pictur10.jpg
>
> Any help to shed light on this would be much appreciated.
>
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Strange Glitch in "Activity Monitor"

[Mystic Prowler]

I was using frostwire earlier and sometimes the program takes too long to
close, so sometimes I open Activity Monitor to close it. I clicked here and
there, and looked carefully at a few things. This is a strange glitch I
found. I looked at the shared memory size in the iTunes window, and it
showed: 16,777,216.00TB of shared memory size. What is going on? I can
provide a screenshot, which is real. One moment later it jumps to 4.001 KB
of shared memory, then 6GB of shared memory, then back to that crazy number.


http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/14/69/07/47/pictur10.jpg

Any help to shed light on this would be much appreciated.

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Re: Mac OS X Lion 10.7 is no longer a rumor!

[Mystic Prowler]

Does anyone have use for really old macs these days? I do. I know this is
off of topic, but oh well.

I took a trip to the jurrasic today, and found my PowerBook 5300cs sitting
on my desk. I recently got a new battery for it, so it is a little more
useful than it used to be. To think of it, although the hard drive space is
small, I can still store names of sings on it, contacts, and light stuff. I
never got around to getting my 5300cs on the web, but i did get my Power Mac
6100 on the web. For some strange reason my PC expansion card slots are not
accepting ANYTHING. I try to put a basic wireless card in it the RIGHT way,
and some spring is pushing against it to keep it out on the top slot. On the
bottom slot, it won't go all the way in. What's happening here? There is no
stuff inside, everything is okay, and fine. I need help on this.

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Re: Mac OS X Lion 10.7 is no longer a rumor!

[Joshua Juran]

On Oct 29, 2010, at 3:09 PM, Mystic Prowler wrote:


I understand that.


I have no idea what you're replying to, since you didn't quote anything.

Josh


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Re: New Mac platform

[Dan]

At 6:06 PM -0400 10/29/2010, Mystic Prowler wrote:
I understand keeping production of faster and faster processors 
could be tough, but look at IBM today! The world's first processor 
running at 4.6Ghz without being overclocked! And it has 32-cores.


Defeat Snatched from the Jaws of Victory.

...IMO, Apple was right to go with the Core processors for the 
laptops.  But they should have stuck with PowerPC for the desktops, 
and quickly gone to full POWER chips.


At 3:35 PM -0700 10/29/2010, Joshua Juran wrote:

On a more serious note, why is replacing Intel chips important?


Apple ditched PPC ostensibly because there was no new chip for 
laptops.  So here we are with Intel, and Apple just released the new 
MBA with the *old* Core 2 Duo chip.  Why?  Because Intel's "upgrade" 
offerings are crap - slow, power piggy, and saddled with horribly 
slow graphics.


At the higher-end, the Core i3/5/7/9 chips are ok, as long as you're 
willing to ignore the seriously high speed POWER chips etc.  Just 
squeeze your eyes and a** tightly closed and repeat the mantra:  We 
have to have computers that can also run Windows.


Speed aside (the avg consumer really doesn't need umpteen GHz), IMO, 
the reliability issue is the biggie... Back in the PPC days, we 
"considered" buying AppleCare because it often never got used.  These 
days, I will not sell or recommend ANY x86 based Mac without it.


FWIW,
- Dan.
--
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Re: Mac OS X Lion 10.7 is no longer a rumor!

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Mystic Prowler wrote:

> Well, judging my the course of technological expansion over the past few
> years, we should start seeing 128-bit computers around 2016, and commonly
> around 2024.


A wider highway is one way to get a faster traffic flow and more cars to the
destination.
A wider bandwidth is one way to get more throughput. ( for you who were
about to point out that you did not like my analogy )

But faster traffic will do the same.

Anyway this new " predictive logic" technology that is said to be on the
market  within a short time is supposed to be a 1000 times faster ( don't
flame me I'm only the messenger)

It's in the latest CPU magazine. What they talk about comes to pass at a
high degree of probability.





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Re: Mac OS X Lion 10.7 is no longer a rumor!

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Mystic Prowler wrote:

> I have a question The iMac G5 is perfectly useful... but no new version
> of Mac OS X supports it anymore. It is a powerful, 64-bit computer that will
> last until 128-bit computers start peeking through the markets I wonder
> if it would be a good idea to dual-boot it with Ubuntu systems because
> Ubuntu still supports PowerPC with their newer system releases.
>
> Dual boot:
>
> Ubuntu 10.10 with:
> Mac OS X 10.5.8
>
>
> 

My own observation of Linux is that no matter how confidant you are with it
sharing a disk or letting it see other disks will eventually result in
making the other OS unusabale and in need of a nuke and pave.

YMMV but this is 20 years of observation. I don't trust it to know it's
place.

Actually I think it just invites human error. Which, given all the ways for
it to happen is a wide open invite.



But life is meaningless without challenge, right?









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Re: RAM upgrade for intel

[Charles Lenington]

On 10/28/10 11:56 AM, Jonathan wrote:

Tina

Just to be clear, I don't really want to do this, I just want to know
if it is possible.

Because the real issue is, do I really want to.

If it does work, I can forget about dual channelling, and so, really,
what's the point. At best, the existing 2x2 may work in asymmetrical
dual channel mode.

To further your question, the determining factor is chipset and not
processor. At least, that is my understanding.

Jay


check everymac.com, MacTracker, or OWC

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Re: New Mac platform

[Mystic Prowler]

I really do find intel useful, but not the best. PowerPC was and always will
be the best. If Apple continues a different line of chips, they might name
it PowerPC G6 even if the processor architecture is completely different.
Going away from intel means that Apple will increase the chances of the
Microsoft market domination to collapse. Intel did create the first
microprocessor, after all. I am not saying they have bad processors, but
their marketing technique is horrible. I know and understand why Apple went
from PowerPC to intel, but if i was in Steve's shoes, i'd stay with PowerPC,
because in today's world i'd have the advantage.

__
iMac G4 1.25 17", iMac 800 15", iMac G5 1.8 20", iMac G3 Bondi Blue 233,
iMac G3 350 Teal, iMac G3 350 Indigo, iMac G3 600 Graphite, Powerbook 540c,
Powerbook G4 867 15", Powerbook 5300cs, Power Mac 6100 60, Power Mac G4
sawtooth 400, G4 sawtooth 400 #2, G4 cube 450, iBook G3 500, eMac 700, G3
Gossamer 233, G3 B&W 300, Mid 2010 15" i7 MBP.

Former machines:
Apple 1 (sold for my new MBP, sorry!), iBook G3 clamshell original 300
Tangerine, iBook Mid 2005 1.33 12", Power Mac 7200/120 (killed during power
surge), G4 quicksilver dual 1Ghz (parts sold, still have case, PS blew
up...)

So far i have 19 machines. If i still had my other machines, i'd have 24.
The Powerbook G4 15" 867 is pending on my list and will not be received my
me until wednesday. Also, another indigo iMac G3 is pending on my list.

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Re: New Mac platform

[Tina K.]

On 2010/10/29 16:35, Joshua Juran so eloquently wrote:

On a more serious note, why is replacing Intel chips important?


I can't speak for anyone else but I don't like Intel's predatory 
business practices, their integrated graphics, and I fear what would 
happen to their prices should AMD stop being competitive.


Tina

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10.5.8


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Re: Mac OS X Lion 10.7 is no longer a rumor!

[Tina K.]

On 2010/10/29 16:07, Ashgrove so eloquently wrote:

On Oct 29, 2:27 pm, Mystic Prowler  wrote:

I tried to install Ubuntu 10.10 on my G5 iMac, and it turns out
that the installer "crashed". It says that i need some kind of
boot partition map.

Yep. You gotta read the tutorials and format the HDD according to
instructions prior to installing it. It's not as easy as installing
Mac OS X, I'm afraid.


Every time I've installed K/Ubuntu formatting the disc has been part of
the installation process which creates a boot partition map.

K/Ubuntu has gotten better over the years and now it's almost effortless.

Tina

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Re: Mac OS X Lion 10.7 is no longer a rumor!

[Joshua Juran]

On Oct 28, 2010, at 9:08 PM, Steven wrote:


On Oct 28, 2010, at 6:16 PM, Mystic Prowler wrote:

The iMac G5 is perfectly useful... but no new version of Mac OS X  
supports it anymore. It is a powerful, 64-bit computer that will  
last until 128-bit computers start peeking through the markets


I'm not going to defend the way Apple has gone from extremely long  
product support to extremely short over the past few years, but your  
logic isn't quite right. The 1984 Macintosh was technically a 32 bit  
computer, and while I would love to have one for my collection, it  
is in no way useful for 90% of the things you could do with the  
newest 32 bit computers (except, of course, word processing, where  
the lack of internet and multimedia capabilities give it a huge  
advantage). The G5 series is still a very useful line of machines,  
but they are getting older, and just because they are 64 bit doesn't  
mean they will never be obsolete. Secondly, according to what I  
understand about 8/16/32/64/128 bit computing technologies, there  
won't be 128 bit home computers for a very very long time, since  
they don't offer much improvement over 64 bit for most purposes.  
Also, you can clearly see the trend in the history of home  
computing: 8 bit was common in the late 1970s before it was replaced  
by 16 bit PC compatibles in the early 1980s, then 32 bit became  
common in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and it wasn't until the  
past few years that 64 bit became really common. based on that, 128  
bit home computers probably won't show up for another 20 or 30  
years. Of course, lately companies have been jumping at any chance  
to purposely obsolete a device or technology, so I could be wrong.


That's why I'm not going to bother with 128-bit computers.  I'll just  
wait until 256-bit comes out.


Josh


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Re: New Mac platform

[Joshua Juran]

On Oct 29, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Dennis B. Swaney wrote:


On 29/10/10 11:30PDT, Mystic Prowler wrote:

I agree, but at the same time I suggest doing this:

The Apple A4 chip should be standardized for all mobile platforms
(except laptops), while Apple should go back to the PowerPC, but  
have a

different name and a new generation, like the PowerPC G5 v2, or the
PowerPC G6, or the Core G6... I love the PowerPC platform and will  
never

give it up. I sorta refuse to buy an intel mac too.


Unfortunately, Motorola jettisoned their chip division. It was going  
by the name "Freescale" but I haven't heard much recently. Also, at  
the same time, the older employees were terminated (I have a friend  
who was one of them) so who knows if the PPC could be updated.


Maybe Apple should buy Freescale, produce the 68080, and use that for  
OS X.  :-)


It is Apple's "A" chips or AMD's chips that have the best bet of  
supplanting Intel in Macs.


On a more serious note, why is replacing Intel chips important?

Josh


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Re: Mac OS X Lion 10.7 is no longer a rumor!

[Mystic Prowler]

I understand that.

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Re: New Mac platform

[Mystic Prowler]

I understand keeping production of faster and faster processors could be
tough, but look at IBM today! The world's first processor running at 4.6Ghz
without being overclocked! And it has 32-cores.

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Re: Mac OS X Lion 10.7 is no longer a rumor!

[Ashgrove]

On Oct 29, 2:27 pm, Mystic Prowler  wrote:
> I tried to install Ubuntu 10.10 on my G5 iMac, and it turns out that the
> installer "crashed". It says that i need some kind of boot partition map.

Yep. You gotta read the tutorials and format the HDD according to
instructions prior to installing it. It's not as easy as installing
Mac OS X, I'm afraid.

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Re: New Mac platform

[Dennis B. Swaney]

On 29/10/10 11:30PDT, Mystic Prowler wrote:

I agree, but at the same time I suggest doing this:

The Apple A4 chip should be standardized for all mobile platforms
(except laptops), while Apple should go back to the PowerPC, but have a
different name and a new generation, like the PowerPC G5 v2, or the
PowerPC G6, or the Core G6... I love the PowerPC platform and will never
give it up. I sorta refuse to buy an intel mac too.



Unfortunately, Motorola jettisoned their chip division. It was going by 
the name "Freescale" but I haven't heard much recently. Also, at the 
same time, the older employees were terminated (I have a friend who was 
one of them) so who knows if the PPC could be updated.


It is Apple's "A" chips or AMD's chips that have the best bet of 
supplanting Intel in Macs.


--
Sincerely,
Dennis B. Swaney

"Windows is a command-line OS with a GUI shell while Mac System 10 is 
... oh, never mind."


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Re: New Mac platform

[Eunix]

When Apple decided to leave the PPC platform I was hurt but I fully 
understand why they did it.
As a fan of the IBM Power platform, the G5 was a small power 4/power5 
machine that did not run AIX and Apple was a small part of the IBM order 
that they could not significantly influence the production cycle.


Apple had to battle the perception monster of the Wintel platform.

Intel and AMD were making chip announcement at a pace that Apple could 
not keep up with.  If you recall, Apple announced that the G5 was the 
fastest computer in the world but how long did they hold that crown.


The move to the Wintel platform was a perception move and had to be done 
in one swoop.  Although I love my multicore Opteron systems, AMD in the 
eyes of the consumers is the underdog which is not necessarily the case 
across the entire product line.


Look at what this move has done.  It has put Apple more into the main 
stream and they are gaining market share beyond their traditional market.


Now just an aside.  : One nice thing would be for Apple to have a 
limited edition run of the Apple IIe with a quad core 64 bit 6502 
that is capable of full 6502 emulation.  Just like people snapped up the 
retro Beetles, Mustangs, Camaros etc - They would make a mint!  Or put 
out an enthusiast model that you could get in a kit!



On 10/29/2010 2:10 PM, Dennis B. Swaney wrote:

On 29/10/10 10:26PDT, Tina K. wrote:

On 2010/10/28 17:16, Mystic Prowler so eloquently wrote:

I wonder if it would be a good idea to dual-boot it with Ubuntu systems
because Ubuntu still supports PowerPC with their newer system releases.


Actually, Ubuntu dropped official support for PPC several versions ago,
but the community has taken up the slack. Debian has official support
for PPC, and so does YellowDog and a few other variants.

There will come a day when Apple stops supporting 10.5 and then PPC
users will have to decide if they want to continue without any further
security updates or if they want to change platforms.





With Apple now making their own chips, perhaps we'll see a new Mac 
platform that DOESN'T have "Intel Inside". I refuse to purchase any 
"Mac" from Apple that uses Intel. If Apple doesn't start using their 
own chips, then at least they should use AMD chips so as not to 
support the Intel monopoly.


Even better might be for Apple to use some of their pocket change and 
buy AMD; that would really block the Intel/Microsoft monopolists.




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Re: New Mac platform (was: Re: Mac OS X Lion 10.7 is no longer a rumor!

[Mystic Prowler]

I agree, but at the same time I suggest doing this:

The Apple A4 chip should be standardized for all mobile platforms (except
laptops), while Apple should go back to the PowerPC, but have a different
name and a new generation, like the PowerPC G5 v2, or the PowerPC G6, or the
Core G6... I love the PowerPC platform and will never give it up. I sorta
refuse to buy an intel mac too.

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Re: Mac OS X Lion 10.7 is no longer a rumor!

[Mystic Prowler]

I tried to install Ubuntu 10.10 on my G5 iMac, and it turns out that the
installer "crashed". It says that i need some kind of boot partition map.

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Re: RAM upgrade for intel

[Al Poulin]

On Oct 28, 12:32 pm, Jonathan 
wrote:
> Hi chaps
>
> I am pondering an upgrade of my mid 2010 27" i5. It has the standard
> 4gb (2X2) ddr3 1333 sodimm.
>
> I need to be certain of whether I am restricted by dual channelling.
> Do I need to buy in pairs? Or can I leave my 2X2gb and add a single
> 4gb stick?

For this, I would also check with OWC (macsales.com) online and maybe
by phone and with crucial.com online.  In some cases, a machine that
does not require matched pairs will deliver higher performance with
matched pairs, but for most users in real life, that increase is not
really noticeable.

Al Poulin

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New Mac platform (was: Re: Mac OS X Lion 10.7 is no longer a rumor!

[Dennis B. Swaney]

On 29/10/10 10:26PDT, Tina K. wrote:

On 2010/10/28 17:16, Mystic Prowler so eloquently wrote:

I wonder if it would be a good idea to dual-boot it with Ubuntu systems
because Ubuntu still supports PowerPC with their newer system releases.


Actually, Ubuntu dropped official support for PPC several versions ago,
but the community has taken up the slack. Debian has official support
for PPC, and so does YellowDog and a few other variants.

There will come a day when Apple stops supporting 10.5 and then PPC
users will have to decide if they want to continue without any further
security updates or if they want to change platforms.





With Apple now making their own chips, perhaps we'll see a new Mac 
platform that DOESN'T have "Intel Inside". I refuse to purchase any 
"Mac" from Apple that uses Intel. If Apple doesn't start using their own 
chips, then at least they should use AMD chips so as not to support the 
Intel monopoly.


Even better might be for Apple to use some of their pocket change and 
buy AMD; that would really block the Intel/Microsoft monopolists.


--
Sincerely,
Dennis B. Swaney

"Windows is a command-line OS with a GUI shell while Mac System 10 is 
... oh, never mind."


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Re: Mac OS X Lion 10.7 is no longer a rumor!

[Tina K.]

On 2010/10/28 17:16, Mystic Prowler so eloquently wrote:

I wonder if it would be a good idea to dual-boot it with Ubuntu systems
because Ubuntu still supports PowerPC with their newer system releases.


Actually, Ubuntu dropped official support for PPC several versions ago, 
but the community has taken up the slack. Debian has official support 
for PPC, and so does YellowDog and a few other variants.


There will come a day when Apple stops supporting 10.5 and then PPC 
users will have to decide if they want to continue without any further 
security updates or if they want to change platforms.




Tina

--

iMac 20" USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR Ubuntu 
10.10


Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB Leopard 
10.5.8


PowerBook G4 15" HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR 
Leopard 10.5.8


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Re: Mac OS X Lion 10.7 is no longer a rumor!

[Ashgrove]

On Oct 28, 7:16 pm, Mystic Prowler  wrote:
> I wonder
> if it would be a good idea to dual-boot it with Ubuntu systems because
> Ubuntu still supports PowerPC with their newer system releases.
> Dual boot:
> Ubuntu 10.10 with:
> Mac OS X 10.5.8

It sounds good to me. The latest Ubuntu/Xubuntu releases are very Macs
OS'ish, by the way. I tried the latest Xubuntu release on a G3 800Mhz
iBook, and it ran perfect. So full-fledged Ubuntu should fly on your
G5.

Felix

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Re: Mac OS X Lion 10.7 is no longer a rumor!

[MJ Raichyk]

The CHINESE market, India, Brazil, etc will determine what develops, 
because they are the expanding market of the future.. like by 2012.  And 
judging by the way that the Chinese do their OWN companies to overmatch 
the American companies -- with blow away pricing and maybe questionable 
quality by our own standards, the future of MACs could be radically off 
the trendlines.  American fatcats moving their operations to those 
expanding markets may have a rude awakening when the all-Chinese 
competitors eat them up.  

TTYL, and preparing to HOLD ON TIGHT TO MY MACS, Snow iMac and G4, not 
to mention the string of Windows ancestry from Windows98Aptiva to the 
Chrome/Windows8/Gateway and in between.. all customized to their special 
matched needs/abilities.

MJ

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 6:31 AM, Mystic Prowler  
wrote:
That isn't too far away you know. 2016 is only 5 years from now, and 
2014 is only 13.  It's almost 2011, the year of the touchscreen and 
touchpad. let's see what will go on.


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Re: Mac OS X Lion 10.7 is no longer a rumor!

[Mystic Prowler]

That isn't too far away you know. 2016 is only 5 years from now, and 2014 is
only 13.  It's almost 2011, the year of the touchscreen and touchpad. let's
see what will go on.

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Re: Mac OS X Lion 10.7 is no longer a rumor!

[Mystic Prowler]

Well, judging my the course of technological expansion over the past few
years, we should start seeing 128-bit computers around 2016, and commonly
around 2024.

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