Please tell redhat to fix ps

2003-09-25 Thread Joseph Shraibman
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=97586

Please post comments about how ps reporting the wrong size for multithreaded apps is 
indeed a bug.

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Re: Please tell redhat to fix ps

2003-09-25 Thread Joseph Shraibman
Dan Kegel wrote:
Sure it can.  If an app has buttloads of threads, most of which have
never used much of their stack allocation, the total of the SZ column in ps
could indeed be lower than the total of the 'used' column in the
output of free.  SZ can include address space for which neither
physical memory nor swap space has been committed yet.
That begs the questions 1) what did ps do in redhat 8? and 2) what is top doing different?

If I need to understand the memory usage on my system I need to know the *real* memory 
used, not allocated.  Allocated isn't very useful at all, only being good for 
understanding why you suddenly can't allocate any more memory even though you seem to be 
using much less than the theoretical limit.

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Re: Please tell redhat to fix ps

2003-09-25 Thread Christopher Smith
On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 15:37, Joseph Shraibman wrote:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=97586
> 
> Please post comments about how ps reporting the wrong size for multithreaded apps is 
> indeed a bug.

I think it's kind of pointless to send this in as a distribution bug. It
is something that you should report to the psutils, nptl and/or kernel
folks, rather than redhat. I'm sure that will in turn result in a debate
as to what is right or wrong, but that is not a decision you'd want Red
Hat to make.

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Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Please tell redhat to fix ps

2003-09-25 Thread Joseph Shraibman
Christopher Smith wrote:

I think it's kind of pointless to send this in as a distribution bug. It
is something that you should report to the psutils, nptl and/or kernel
folks, rather than redhat. I'm sure that will in turn result in a debate
as to what is right or wrong, but that is not a decision you'd want Red
Hat to make.
The last time I had a problem with ps I noticed that the procps maintainer had an 
@redhat.com address, so I assumed that the right thing to do would be contact redhat 
through bugzilla.  I didn't check again this time to see if that is still the case.

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Re: Please tell redhat to fix ps

2003-09-25 Thread Christopher Smith
On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 16:34, Joseph Shraibman wrote:
> That begs the questions 1) what did ps do in redhat 8? and 2) what is top doing 
> different?

Red Hat 8 was using a totally different thread library. I'm sure this
behavioral difference is tied to NPTL (easy way to test this too, just
disable NPTL and try it). top is invariably doing the wrong thing. It
has a lovely history in this regard.

> If I need to understand the memory usage on my system I need to know the *real* 
> memory 
> used, not allocated.  Allocated isn't very useful at all, only being good for 
> understanding why you suddenly can't allocate any more memory even though you seem 
> to be 
> using much less than the theoretical limit.

Allocated is useful in some circumstances, used is useful in others.
However, what your notion of "used" is may vary from the kernel's. As
such, things like RSS and VSIZE are the much more reliable measures of
what's going on with your system, or just have your program track it's
allocations so it can report information to you directly.

Anyway, this is not really a Java discussion, but a Linux discussion
that is best had with those that maintain the relevant components.

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Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Please tell redhat to fix ps

2003-09-25 Thread Joseph Shraibman
Dan Kegel wrote:

Indeed.  Actually, the best thing to do would be to submit
a patch that yields the behavior you want.
- Dan
Tried that last time, and they eventually fixed the problem but they didn't use my patch, 
so I figured I'd save my time.  The main problem with this one is that they don't 
acknowldege that this is a bug.

Christopher Smith wrote:

> Anyway, this is not really a Java discussion, but a Linux discussion
> that is best had with those that maintain the relevant components.
>
Well this is a java on linux list, and every java program is multithreaded, so everyone 
who wants to use ps on their java programs is affected.

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