Re: [j-nsp] ACX5448 & ACX710 - Update!
On 30/Jul/20 12:53, Luis Balbinot wrote: > I work with telecom companies for years and DC is the standard for pretty > much all of them. If you have a small shelter or container you can deploy > an UPS DC system with a handful of batteries that will last for hours and > will not take much space. Look inside a mobile node B station and you’ll > only find DC power. > > All major IDCs will provide you -48VDC too. > > And to save a bit of money on power efficiency during the years. We run cable landing stations across Africa, so yes, we do use DC for those as well. Very familiar with the use-case. We just find AC simpler and easier to work with at 3rd party data centres as well as Metro commercial buildings, for routers, switches, servers and such appliances. Dropping a UPS at those sites is far simpler than deploying DC. Mobile networks use DC heavily, this is well-known. Which is why I said, this box was made for them. Mark. ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
Re: [j-nsp] ACX5448 & ACX710 - Update!
On 30/Jul/20 12:35, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > To be fair there are more than two Juniper customers world wide that > are using 48V DC. To my knowledge DC power is very common in the telco > world. DC is common, agreed. I just tend to avoid it. During my Malaysia days, I found the company running kit on DC. When we did the revamp of the network, we moved all of that to AC. Saved plenty of space, simplified wiring and troubleshooting, and we were more native with the data centres we housed in. Same thing happened when I moved down to South Africa. Everything was on DC, including the servers. Moved all that to AC, much to the delight of our Facilities manager. Adding a UPS to support AC backup vs. adding batteries and rectifiers, was good news. More and more carrier-neutral data centres are now preferring AC. They still do offer DC, but it's a whole thing that can cost extra depending on where you are. I suppose it makes sense given that the cloud bags need space, and they don't generally run their servers on DC. There are some carrier-neutral DC's that don't offer any DC at all. All they'll give you is footprint to deploy your own rectifier. > > What is special about ACX710 is probably the price point. They want a > device for a certain market without loosing the ability to sell a > higher priced device for another market. I actually found out the reason why the ACX710 exists the way it does. It's not what any of us think it is. Suffice it to say, this box was built for mobile operators. 5G and what-not. Mark. ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
Re: [j-nsp] ACX5448 & ACX710 - Update!
I work with telecom companies for years and DC is the standard for pretty much all of them. If you have a small shelter or container you can deploy an UPS DC system with a handful of batteries that will last for hours and will not take much space. Look inside a mobile node B station and you’ll only find DC power. All major IDCs will provide you -48VDC too. And to save a bit of money on power efficiency during the years. Luis On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 07:38 Baldur Norddahl wrote: > > > On 30.07.2020 10.29, Mark Tinka wrote: > > The ACX710 was clearly built for one or two mobile network operators. > > There is no doubt about that. > > > > Juniper have been making boxes that support both AC and DC for yonks. > > Hardened and regular. What's so special about the ACX710? In 2020? > > > > To be fair there are more than two Juniper customers world wide that are > using 48V DC. To my knowledge DC power is very common in the telco world. > > What is special about ACX710 is probably the price point. They want a > device for a certain market without loosing the ability to sell a higher > priced device for another market. > > Regards, > > Baldur > > ___ > juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net > https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp > ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
Re: [j-nsp] ACX5448 & ACX710 - Update!
On 30.07.2020 10.29, Mark Tinka wrote: The ACX710 was clearly built for one or two mobile network operators. There is no doubt about that. Juniper have been making boxes that support both AC and DC for yonks. Hardened and regular. What's so special about the ACX710? In 2020? To be fair there are more than two Juniper customers world wide that are using 48V DC. To my knowledge DC power is very common in the telco world. What is special about ACX710 is probably the price point. They want a device for a certain market without loosing the ability to sell a higher priced device for another market. Regards, Baldur ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
Re: [j-nsp] ACX5448 & ACX710 - Update!
On 30/Jul/20 10:19, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > Not going to claim what is or is not a small issue for anyone here. > Just saying that one rack unit external power supplies are plentiful > and cheap. Like this one (just the first result on Google): > > https://www.simplypowersupply.com/Rack-Mount-Power-Supply/RCP-1000-48-Meanwell-48Vdc-1000W-Rack-Mount-Power-Supply.aspx > > > We only have two datacentre locations and for those two location I > would consider getting something like that. But I am probably going to > go with the ACX5448 anyway because I could find a use for the extra > 100G ports. > > The 20 locations are at the incumbents CO locations where 48 volt DC > with battery and sometimes generator backup is what you get. You could > get 230V AC at these locations but it would be without backup. > > In the future I might also get some locations in street cabinets, > where I would put a standard DC UPS of the kind where you have a > couple 12V batteries in series to make up the 48 volt, the equipment > connected directly to the battery bank and a charger continuously > charging the batteries. This is very cheap and extremely stable. The > ACX710 device is environmentally hardened and clearly made for exactly > that kind of deployment. We considered all possible powering options before deciding that the ACX710 is a show-stopper. Rectifiers. UPS's. Solar. Solar + batteries. The works. Over hundreds of sites dealing with thousands of devices, it's not going to work. We'll spend too much time and money maintaining power, it doesn't make sense. > > I see that ACX710 is not as much made for a specific customer as it is > NOT made for a group of customers: the datacenter customers are > supposed to buy the more expensive ACX5448. But said datacenter > customers can spend one rack unit on an external DC powersupply and go > with it anyway. The ACX710 was clearly built for one or two mobile network operators. There is no doubt about that. Juniper have been making boxes that support both AC and DC for yonks. Hardened and regular. What's so special about the ACX710? In 2020? Mark. ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
Re: [j-nsp] ACX5448 & ACX710 - Update!
On 29.07.2020 23.18, Mark Tinka wrote: On 29/Jul/20 20:18, Baldur Norddahl wrote: I am also going to get a few ACX5448 for our datacentre locations. I am still considering getting some AC to DC powersupplies for the ACX710 because the cost saving is considerable. It is not like finding AC to DC devices is hard - every laptop comes with one (yea I know too little voltage). If you are deploying 20, not a major issue. If you're deploying several-hundred or several-thousands units, this is not a small issue. Not going to claim what is or is not a small issue for anyone here. Just saying that one rack unit external power supplies are plentiful and cheap. Like this one (just the first result on Google): https://www.simplypowersupply.com/Rack-Mount-Power-Supply/RCP-1000-48-Meanwell-48Vdc-1000W-Rack-Mount-Power-Supply.aspx We only have two datacentre locations and for those two location I would consider getting something like that. But I am probably going to go with the ACX5448 anyway because I could find a use for the extra 100G ports. The 20 locations are at the incumbents CO locations where 48 volt DC with battery and sometimes generator backup is what you get. You could get 230V AC at these locations but it would be without backup. In the future I might also get some locations in street cabinets, where I would put a standard DC UPS of the kind where you have a couple 12V batteries in series to make up the 48 volt, the equipment connected directly to the battery bank and a charger continuously charging the batteries. This is very cheap and extremely stable. The ACX710 device is environmentally hardened and clearly made for exactly that kind of deployment. I see that ACX710 is not as much made for a specific customer as it is NOT made for a group of customers: the datacenter customers are supposed to buy the more expensive ACX5448. But said datacenter customers can spend one rack unit on an external DC powersupply and go with it anyway. Regards, Baldur ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
Re: [j-nsp] ACX5448 & ACX710 - Update!
On 30/Jul/20 08:33, Daniel Verlouw wrote: > > which Nokia platform are you looking at? 7250 IXR is also > Qumran/Jericho, Nokia is just hiding it everywhere they can... All of Nokia's revised Metro-E platforms are Broadcom-based. It appears to be the gentleman's handshake amongst all the equipment vendors that Metro-E be cheap & cheerful, so they are all doing Broadcom. We are looking at all of them: * IXR-e = Qumran UX * IXR-E = Qumran AX * IXR-s = Qumran MX * IXR-R4 = Qumran AX * IXR-R6 = Qumran MX * IXR-Xs = Jericho 2 * IXR-X1 = Jericho 2 The Qumran units probably won't go anywhere with us. There is better hope with the Jericho 2 unit, but even then, we are already seeing fundamental issues on paper. It's like I've been saying for some time now... if all the vendors are going to be using the same chip for a platform in the same area of the network, then the only differentiator is going to be what code customers like to work with. Within the traditional vendors, I don't think that matters much because their code is mature and well understood within the networking community. What you hear from the traditional vendors is that they "have the best relationship with Brodacom vis-a-vis how they work with their SDK to make the chip do what they want better than their competitors". If they are all saying the same thing in that regard, not sure how true it is. Ultimately, if you are going to end up with the same hardware issues across all vendor platforms (unless some vendors decide to do clever but costly things like recirculation, e.t.c.), what is the real value, then? Mark. ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
Re: [j-nsp] ACX5448 & ACX710 - Update!
On 30/Jul/20 04:17, Shamen Snyder wrote: > The Juniper Bolan architecture is suppose to have an AC variant. > > Hardened (-40C to 65C), compact (445m x 221mm x 250mm) form factor – > suitable for cabinets in pre-aggregation network layer > • 2 Routing Engine slots, 1:1 redundant control and > forwarding/switching plane > • 320Gb/s and 2.4 Tb/s RP Variants; Full FIB with 2.4Tb/s RP – 1.5M FIB > • Flexibility of 7 (DC versions) or 6 (AC versions) line card slots > • 8x1GE/10GE > • 8 x 10/25GE > • 2x40GE/100GE > • 4x40/100GE (C-Temp) > > I haven’t been following it much, but may be worth poking your SE on. That is too heavy for a Metro-E deployment. Mark. ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
Re: [j-nsp] ACX5448 & ACX710 - Update!
On 30/Jul/20 00:53, mt wrote: > Exactly!!! > > my SE confirmed that there the ACX710 will be shipped with only DC > power supply. > > I really don't know what the Juniper engineering team are thinking, > they are forgetting the basic things. They're focusing on a unique > customer requirement, and for me this is a absurd. They are clearly envying the model of the other vendor right down the road in San Jose... Mark. ___ juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
