Re: Keyboard shortcut enhancement.
On Samstag, 15. Februar 2014 00:48:26 CEST, p.kubik...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 14 of February 2014 17:20:44 Michael Jansen wrote: Window Trigger Action == This is more or less broken since kde4 afaik (never used it myself). This is the first candidate to go. Does edge snapping depend on Window Trigger Action or it's done without this mechanism? Also I don't understand why does it belong to the khotkeys. Of course it's connected but I not that much. Window Trigger Action allows you to bind de/activation and un/mapping of windows to random commands resp. to dbus calls or sending keyboard input. At least sending keyboard input virtually broken (no matter how it's triggered) This has nothing to do with window movement or active screen edges. Cheers, Thomas Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
Re: Keyboard shortcut enhancement.
On Friday 14 of February 2014 17:20:44 Michael Jansen wrote: > Global Shortcuts > == > > These can not go. They are relied upon for example by kmenuedit to set > shortcuts for applications. This functionality could be incorporated into > kglobalaccel and that was the last thing on my to do list before life made > me leave real kde contributing behind. I mean here global key press -> > Start an app. What to do with key press -> (make a dbus call/send keyboard > input) has to be discussed. > Window Trigger Action > == > > This is more or less broken since kde4 afaik (never used it myself). This is > the first candidate to go. > > In KDE3 khotkeys was much more capable but the same mess as today usability > and gui wise. > > Mike Does edge snapping depend on Window Trigger Action or it's done without this mechanism? Also I don't understand why does it belong to the khotkeys. Of course it's connected but I not that much. On Friday 14 February 2014 13:46:55 Thomas Lübking wrote: > An alternative might be a GUI for xbindkeys and a resp. wayland pendant (if > such exists), but i guess kglobalaccel would have to be moved to such > backend in general. Hotkeys (here global shortcuts) are very important component of DE and I think they require some special care. If it is so difficult to find a maintainer maybe it's a good idea to find some unified daemon and create a backend. Might be difficult to make it work with the rest of code but possibly worth it. >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
Re: Keyboard shortcut enhancement.
On Friday 14 February 2014 13:46:55 Thomas Lübking wrote: > Am Freitag, 14. Februar 2014 schrieb Andreas Pakulat : > > In particular I'm using it to start my preferred browser and to control > > my preferred mp3 player. The latter is a cli-tool so it has no global > shortcuts support but it has invocations which talk to the running instance > and can do play, pause etc. > > > That part of khotkeys has been working for me from KDE 4.2 up until now > > (4.11 here), so no idea why it is considered to be 'broken'. > > I think, the only part severely "broken" is triggering random input events. > > On non non-focused windows that requires xsendevent (for kbd input at > least) which noeadays seem largely ignored by clients. This might be > different with wayland (ability to discriminate a synthetic event in > general?), but i guess it's a security concern.?. > > An alternative might be a GUI for xbindkeys and a resp. wayland pendant (if > such exists), but i guess kglobalaccel would have to be moved to such > backend in general. Ok ... i now notice i should have been much clearer. So here the email i should have sent the first time. khotkeys is a mixed bag. We have Global Shortcuts == These can not go. They are relied upon for example by kmenuedit to set shortcuts for applications. This functionality could be incorporated into kglobalaccel and that was the last thing on my to do list before life made me leave real kde contributing behind. I mean here global key press -> Start an app. What to do with key press -> (make a dbus call/send keyboard input) has to be discussed. Mouse Gesture Action = Its kinda unmaintained but still kinda works. There are certain bugs that make random stuff in other apps fail if mouse gesture is enabled. There are some bugs on bugs.kde.org. There are a lot of wishes on bugs.kde.org. There is a great standalone alternative called easystroke. Perhaps the effort should go into making easystroke a first class citizen on kde instead of maintaining our own halb broken implementation. The biggest problem is that mouse gestures should belong into a application like shortcuts and should not be global. There were some effort at making qt support mouse gestures (like key triggers) but i don't think they gone anywhere. khotkeys is so complicated and able to break other apps because it does quite some global x key event listening and replaying while trying to determine if the app that has focus has active mouse gestures and if there is currently a gesture being made. Window Trigger Action == This is more or less broken since kde4 afaik (never used it myself). This is the first candidate to go. In KDE3 khotkeys was much more capable but the same mess as today usability and gui wise. Mike >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
Re: Keyboard shortcut enhancement.
Am Freitag, 14. Februar 2014 schrieb Andreas Pakulat : > In particular I'm using it to start my preferred browser and to control my preferred mp3 player. The latter is a cli-tool so it has no global shortcuts support but it has invocations which talk to the running instance and can do play, pause etc. > That part of khotkeys has been working for me from KDE 4.2 up until now (4.11 here), so no idea why it is considered to be 'broken'. I think, the only part severely "broken" is triggering random input events. On non non-focused windows that requires xsendevent (for kbd input at least) which noeadays seem largely ignored by clients. This might be different with wayland (ability to discriminate a synthetic event in general?), but i guess it's a security concern.?. An alternative might be a GUI for xbindkeys and a resp. wayland pendant (if such exists), but i guess kglobalaccel would have to be moved to such backend in general. Cheers, Thomas >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
Re: Re: Keyboard shortcut enhancement.
Hi, On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 7:46 AM, Ben Cooksley wrote: > On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Martin Gräßlin > wrote: > > On Friday 14 February 2014 04:19:04 Michael Jansen wrote: > >> I am btw not really sure khotkeys should still be part of kde5. its > broken, > >> never really reached kde4 anyway and both lubos and i don't work on it > >> anymore. And it failed to attract anyone else. > > > > Thanks for letting us know. I ported it over to frameworks but to be > honest > > had no idea how to properly test it ;-) So if you think it should be > killed, > > maybe just do the git rm. > > Please note that certain parts of KHotkeys functionality, particularly > that related to executing an arbitrary command have been particularly > useful for integrating non-KDE applications which don't support global > shortcuts, as well as for working around problems in the global > shortcut support provided by some applications. > > Given it's status, perhaps someone might want to advertise that we're > looking for a rewrite / new maintainer for the KF5 iteration? > Would be sad to see khotkeys go without any replacement, I'm not having a truckload of shortcuts configured there but there are a few and so far I haven't seen any replacement. In particular I'm using it to start my preferred browser and to control my preferred mp3 player. The latter is a cli-tool so it has no global shortcuts support but it has invocations which talk to the running instance and can do play, pause etc. That part of khotkeys has been working for me from KDE 4.2 up until now (4.11 here), so no idea why it is considered to be 'broken'. Andreas >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
Re: Re: Keyboard shortcut enhancement.
On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Martin Gräßlin wrote: > On Friday 14 February 2014 04:19:04 Michael Jansen wrote: >> I am btw not really sure khotkeys should still be part of kde5. its broken, >> never really reached kde4 anyway and both lubos and i don't work on it >> anymore. And it failed to attract anyone else. > > Thanks for letting us know. I ported it over to frameworks but to be honest > had no idea how to properly test it ;-) So if you think it should be killed, > maybe just do the git rm. Please note that certain parts of KHotkeys functionality, particularly that related to executing an arbitrary command have been particularly useful for integrating non-KDE applications which don't support global shortcuts, as well as for working around problems in the global shortcut support provided by some applications. Given it's status, perhaps someone might want to advertise that we're looking for a rewrite / new maintainer for the KF5 iteration? > > Cheers > Martin > >>> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe << > Thanks, Ben >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
Re: Re: Keyboard shortcut enhancement.
On Friday 14 February 2014 04:19:04 Michael Jansen wrote: > I am btw not really sure khotkeys should still be part of kde5. its broken, > never really reached kde4 anyway and both lubos and i don't work on it > anymore. And it failed to attract anyone else. Thanks for letting us know. I ported it over to frameworks but to be honest had no idea how to properly test it ;-) So if you think it should be killed, maybe just do the git rm. Cheers Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
Re: Keyboard shortcut enhancement.
On Friday 14 February 2014 01:44:05 Thomas Lübking wrote: > On Freitag, 14. Februar 2014 01:22:19 CEST, Christoph Feck wrote: > > On Friday 14 February 2014 01:07:10 p.kubik...@gmail.com wrote: > >> The mechanism behind that feature is quite strict. There are always > >> some mod keys + ONE other keys (such as letters). There is no way > >> to create a shortcut with two "other keys". > > > > I just tried it in Kate > > I think he points kglobalaccel (kcmshell4 keys/khotkeys) - it should be > possible (on X11, might require Xtst), but rather not trivial as inside a > focused client. > > kglobalaccel could only grab the first modified key, would use it to grab > the entire keyboard, wait for the next key and see whether it's some global > shortcut. If not, or the modifier changed, the first key event /has/ to be > repeated and the second one passed on. No idea whether that's possible on > OSX or Windows at all. iiuc that feature was even supported on kde3 and was removed by lubos with intent because of all the problems around it. So this is unfortunately a won't fix. Which should not hinder anyone to implement it outside of kde. I am btw not really sure khotkeys should still be part of kde5. its broken, never really reached kde4 anyway and both lubos and i don't work on it anymore. And it failed to attract anyone else. Mike >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
Re: Keyboard shortcut enhancement.
On Freitag, 14. Februar 2014 01:22:19 CEST, Christoph Feck wrote: On Friday 14 February 2014 01:07:10 p.kubik...@gmail.com wrote: The mechanism behind that feature is quite strict. There are always some mod keys + ONE other keys (such as letters). There is no way to create a shortcut with two "other keys". I just tried it in Kate I think he points kglobalaccel (kcmshell4 keys/khotkeys) - it should be possible (on X11, might require Xtst), but rather not trivial as inside a focused client. kglobalaccel could only grab the first modified key, would use it to grab the entire keyboard, wait for the next key and see whether it's some global shortcut. If not, or the modifier changed, the first key event /has/ to be repeated and the second one passed on. No idea whether that's possible on OSX or Windows at all. FYI: That's emacs style shortcuts and RMS is probably upset enough that MS dared to add it to VS 2005 - but he will certainly not like that people now associate it there ;-) Cheers, Thomas Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
Re: Keyboard shortcut enhancement.
On Friday 14 February 2014 01:07:10 p.kubik...@gmail.com wrote: > The mechanism behind that feature is quite strict. There are always > some mod keys + ONE other keys (such as letters). There is no way > to create a shortcut with two "other keys". I just tried it in Kate, and assigned Ctrl+Y, Ctrl+X as a shortcut for "About Kate", and it worked without a problem. As long as Ctrl+Y is not assigned, you can use it to initiate a multi-key shortcut. Since Kate uses the standard "Configure Shortcuts" dialog, I assume it works in any KDE application. > I always tend to realease CTRL after every hotkeys but I believe > some people doesn't. Exactly, I do not release the Ctrl key when using multiple shortcuts. Christoph Feck (kdepepo) >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
Keyboard shortcut enhancement.
It may be that I didn't fully understand the idea behind hotkeys in KDE, but I found some issues that might require tweaking. The mechanism behind that feature is quite strict. There are always some mod keys + ONE other keys (such as letters). There is no way to create a shortcut with two "other keys". I know it is quite more difficult in desing because user rarely will press two keys in exacly the same time, and adding any delay to avoid this issue might disapoint people using regular hotkeys (depending on delay time). What I would like to actually reproduce is the behaviour from Visual Studio. The user is able to desing hotkeys as: -Press CTRL -Press first key -Press second key -Release CTRL It is activated upon last step. Of course it would bound us to unacceptable behaviour. For example user pressing ALT+Tab is expecting that it will immediately invoke some kind of task switcher animation. I think it could be solved by executing the action before releasing of mod- button if there is no further combination available. For example if user has created shortcut ALT+Tab+Q, the task switcher would be shown after releasing CTRL, because it's still possible to press Q, and invoke different action. I think many would benefit from such enhancement. For example I am thinking of enabling all features of VIM in Kate's normal mode. VIM-mode itself is too difficult for new programmers, and there is too many commands to do it right now. Of course we can find some flaws. Example: user is expecting some hotkey to be instant and current application adds the new one that extends it. Let's say that given app add CTRL+S+X. CTRL+S is no longer instant. Unaware user want to quickly save the file and open a new one. He use CTRL+S and CTRL+O without releasing CTRL to make it faster. It is interpretet as CTRL+S+O which is unknown. I think we all can imagine other cases where it would be disastrous. I still don't have idea how to deal with it. I always tend to realease CTRL after every hotkeys but I believe some people doesn't. Anyway. I think it looks interesting. I'd like you to think about it and share your thoughts. Maybe something like this is worth adding to KDE. Maybe it would be valuable GSoC idea, as I heard there aren't too many of them. >> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe <<
