Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I have recently added Retro FM in Kyiv, Ukraine after discussions with > Magnus (dizz...@gmail.com), when we saw that someone with a Russian IP > address deliberatedly tried to remove Retro FM from the list of Ukrainian > radio stations on en.wikipedia.org, so we decided to loop censorship on > Wikipedia and therefore published the station in GNOME Radio 16.0.6 for > GNOME 42 to a global mirror of GNOME. That is good. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
The code is in GNOME Gitlab and free to fork, ignore or co-operate with. [1]http://gitlab.gnome.org/ole/gnome-radio There is a Issue tracker, feel free to file issues in [2]http://gitlab.gnome.org/ole/gnome-radio/-/issues or send merge requests. On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, 08:14 Magnus, <[3]dizz...@gmail.com> wrote: The cure against hateful speech is constructive speech. As Richard wrote in Free Software, Free Society, there is a link between knowing the law of a country and knowing the software that runs on computers you control. The Internet makes the world one society and we must take greater care in knowing the consequences of our actions. Else we as creators manifest a tyrannical rule. XAI must be part of a free global siblinghood. On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, 00:44 Ole Aamot, <[4]o...@oka.no> wrote: On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 5:22 AM Richard Stallman <[5]r...@gnu.org> wrote: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Free software means that the developers cannot decide who can use it and who cannot. If we had the power to stop Russia from using a program, we would also have the power to anyone else from using it. That would not be free software. True. We could become uncivil and block people from downloading a free software program, but there are no such (as far as I know) ipchains blocklists on [6]www.gnomeradio.org, so there is no reason to do so either. We live in civil democracies, but Russia and Putin has invaded Ukraine. I have recently added Retro FM in Kyiv, Ukraine after discussions with Magnus ([7]dizz...@gmail.com), when we saw that someone with a Russian IP address deliberatedly tried to remove Retro FM from the list of Ukrainian radio stations on [8]en.wikipedia.org, so we decided to loop censorship on Wikipedia and therefore published the station in GNOME Radio 16.0.6 for GNOME 42 to a global mirror of GNOME. See [9]https://blogs.gnome.org/oleaamot/2022/03/19/gnome-radio-16-for-gnome -42/ and [10]http://www.gnomeradio.org/ -- Ole Aamot Aamot Software / [11]www.aamot.software Frydenbergveien, 0575 OSLO, Norway (+47) 45049800 / [12]ole@aamot.software References 1. http://gitlab.gnome.org/ole/gnome-radio 2. http://gitlab.gnome.org/ole/gnome-radio/-/issues 3. mailto:dizz...@gmail.com 4. mailto:o...@oka.no 5. mailto:r...@gnu.org 6. http://www.gnomeradio.org/ 7. mailto:dizz...@gmail.com 8. http://en.wikipedia.org/ 9. https://blogs.gnome.org/oleaamot/2022/03/19/gnome-radio-16-for-gnome-42/ 10. http://www.gnomeradio.org/ 11. http://www.aamot.software/ 12. mailto:ole@aamot.software ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 5:22 AM Richard Stallman <[1]r...@gnu.org> wrote: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Free software means that the developers cannot decide who can use it and who cannot. If we had the power to stop Russia from using a program, we would also have the power to anyone else from using it. That would not be free software. True. We could become uncivil and block people from downloading a free software program, but there are no such (as far as I know) ipchains blocklists on [2]www.gnomeradio.org, so there is no reason to do so either. We live in civil democracies, but Russia and Putin has invaded Ukraine. I have recently added Retro FM in Kyiv, Ukraine after discussions with Magnus ([3]dizz...@gmail.com), when we saw that someone with a Russian IP address deliberatedly tried to remove Retro FM from the list of Ukrainian radio stations on [4]en.wikipedia.org, so we decided to loop censorship on Wikipedia and therefore published the station in GNOME Radio 16.0.6 for GNOME 42 to a global mirror of GNOME. See [5]https://blogs.gnome.org/oleaamot/2022/03/19/gnome-radio-16-for-gnome -42/ and [6]http://www.gnomeradio.org/ -- Ole Aamot Aamot Software / [7]www.aamot.software Frydenbergveien, 0575 OSLO, Norway (+47) 45049800 / [8]ole@aamot.software References 1. mailto:r...@gnu.org 2. http://www.gnomeradio.org/ 3. mailto:dizz...@gmail.com 4. http://en.wikipedia.org/ 5. https://blogs.gnome.org/oleaamot/2022/03/19/gnome-radio-16-for-gnome-42/ 6. http://www.gnomeradio.org/ 7. http://www.aamot.software/ 8. mailto:ole@aamot.software ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
Il 08/03/22 13:01, Jacob Hrbek ha scritto: use of free software in russian military to do war crimes That's pretty much like asking how to stop people who do crimes by... * ...talking over the phone (shut down the phone companies?) * ...reading and writing paper notes (fire all primary school teachers?) * ...using the laws of mathematics (repeal the Peano axioms?) * ...communicating over the ether (confiscate the airwaves?) * ...breathing air (burn all trees in the world so there's no more oxygen?) Federico ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Free software means that the developers cannot decide who can use it and who cannot. If we had the power to stop Russia from using a program, we would also have the power to anyone else from using it. That would not be free software. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
On Tue, 2022-03-08 at 11:01 +, Jacob Hrbek wrote: > > I used the term "help your neighbor" to describe the purpose of > freedom 2 because "help your neighbor" is a traditional way to refer > to > cooperating with your community and with the rest of society. -- RMS > > How is that justifying the use of free software in russian military > to > do war crimes worth of projected 1 000 000 civilian death _including > children_? In this case you're blaming the tool for the action of the wielder of the tool. > > This is not cooperating with community and society, it's mass murder > by > complacency and sooner we take action on this the sooner the russian > gov > will have issues getting updates for GNU and FSF to contribute to the > non-fascist side of this war. > The terms of the license are very clear. If you want to enforce other terms you need another license. Further, how do you propose we keep Russia from using Free Software? Enforcing software licenses in the US is a difficult task and to do it we don't need the backing of a military. > On 3/6/22 06:13, Richard Stallman wrote: > > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please > > consider]]] > > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all > > enemies, ]]] > > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. > > ]]] > > > >> So again i repeat my argument the freedom 2 says: "The freedom > > to > >> /redistribute/ and make c > opies __so you can help your neighbour.__" > > I used the term "help your neighbor" to describe the purpose of > > freedom 2 because "help your neighbor" is a traditional way to > > refer > > to cooperating with your community and with the rest of society. I > > never intended it to mean that your use of freedom 2 was limited to > > people that live near you. > > > > Yeara ago I realized that people were getting the wrong idea from > > that > > word, so I started saying it differently. But it took a long tine > > to > > recognize and replace the old wording in writing. > > > > If you see anything which describes freedom 2 using the word > > "neighbor", > > please try to get it corrected. If you see this on gnu.org, please > > report it to webmast...@gnu.org. > > > > Whether you redistribute a free program to any given user > > is your choice. Freedom 2 says you are free to do so, when you > > wish. > > However, as long as you're distributing the source code, it is > > always > > your choice whether to do it in any speci > fic instance. > > (The GNU GPL has a special rule for distributing a compiled form > > without source code. If you do that in certain ways, you will be > > required to make the source code available laler. That is so you > > can't deny source code to the community.) > > > > -- > > Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) > > Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) > > Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) > > Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) > > > > > -- > Jacob Hrbek, In support of ukraine sovereignty #supportUkraine > > ___ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss -- "Under the sky, under the heavens there is but one family." --Bruce Lee ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
> How is that justifying the use of free software in russian military to > do war crimes worth of projected 1 000 000 civilian death _including > children_? Did someone claim it justifies that activity? If not, you are asking a loaded question. Also, what is the issue in using free software to do that? Doing that is an issue IMO (and I say "IMO" because I don't speak for the FSF and this issue has nothing to do with free software), but it's immoral regardless of whether one uses free software, proprietary software or no software. The issue is killing people, not using free software to do that. > This is not cooperating with community and society, it's mass murder by > complacency and sooner we take action on this the sooner the russian gov > will have issues getting updates for GNU and FSF to contribute to the > non-fascist side of this war. Freedom 2 is necessary to help others with the purpose of making society better, but it absolutely is not and has never been limited to that: you can choose whom to help (by giving copies of the software to those people) regardless of their intentions. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
> I used the term "help your neighbor" to describe the purpose of freedom 2 because "help your neighbor" is a traditional way to refer to cooperating with your community and with the rest of society. -- RMS How is that justifying the use of free software in russian military to do war crimes worth of projected 1 000 000 civilian death _including children_? This is not cooperating with community and society, it's mass murder by complacency and sooner we take action on this the sooner the russian gov will have issues getting updates for GNU and FSF to contribute to the non-fascist side of this war. On 3/6/22 06:13, Richard Stallman wrote: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > So again i repeat my argument the freedom 2 says: "The freedom to > /redistribute/ and make c opies __so you can help your neighbour.__" I used the term "help your neighbor" to describe the purpose of freedom 2 because "help your neighbor" is a traditional way to refer to cooperating with your community and with the rest of society. I never intended it to mean that your use of freedom 2 was limited to people that live near you. Yeara ago I realized that people were getting the wrong idea from that word, so I started saying it differently. But it took a long tine to recognize and replace the old wording in writing. If you see anything which describes freedom 2 using the word "neighbor", please try to get it corrected. If you see this on gnu.org, please report it to webmast...@gnu.org. Whether you redistribute a free program to any given user is your choice. Freedom 2 says you are free to do so, when you wish. However, as long as you're distributing the source code, it is always your choice whether to do it in any speci fic instance. (The GNU GPL has a special rule for distributing a compiled form without source code. If you do that in certain ways, you will be required to make the source code available laler. That is so you can't deny source code to the community.) -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) -- Jacob Hrbek, In support of ukraine sovereignty #supportUkraine publickey - kreyren@rixotstudio.cz - 1677db82.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > So again i repeat my argument the freedom 2 says: "The freedom to > /redistribute/ and make copies __so you can help your neighbour.__" I used the term "help your neighbor" to describe the purpose of freedom 2 because "help your neighbor" is a traditional way to refer to cooperating with your community and with the rest of society. I never intended it to mean that your use of freedom 2 was limited to people that live near you. Yeara ago I realized that people were getting the wrong idea from that word, so I started saying it differently. But it took a long tine to recognize and replace the old wording in writing. If you see anything which describes freedom 2 using the word "neighbor", please try to get it corrected. If you see this on gnu.org, please report it to webmast...@gnu.org. Whether you redistribute a free program to any given user is your choice. Freedom 2 says you are free to do so, when you wish. However, as long as you're distributing the source code, it is always your choice whether to do it in any specific instance. (The GNU GPL has a special rule for distributing a compiled form without source code. If you do that in certain ways, you will be required to make the source code available laler. That is so you can't deny source code to the community.) -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
* Ole Aamot [2022-03-03 21:49]: > Ukrainian state broadcaster is currently not GNOME Internet Radio > Locator 12.2.0. > Kyiv is under attack and we want to limit Russia and Putin's access to > information. > Is this wrong to think? Yes, it is wrong to think if you wish to limit "public" radio. If you wish to make media "public", then keep it public. Support freedom of information. If you wish to make private radio, that is fine, as that by default means it is confidential, private. Not for everybody. Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
I would not wish proprietary software on my worst enemy. The less proprietary software used the better. On Thursday, March 3, 2022, 01:48:15 PM EST, Ole Aamot wrote: Ukrainian state broadcaster is currently not GNOME Internet Radio Locator 12.2.0. Kyiv is under attack and we want to limit Russia and Putin's access to information. Is this wrong to think? Users are free to add their own radio stations as users into $HOME/.gnome-internet-radio-locator/gnome-internet-radio-locator.xml The release is available from [1][1]https://download.gnome.org/sources/gnome-internet-radio-locator/1 2.2 /gnome-internet-radio-locator-12.2.0.tar.xz and needs testing. See [2][2]http://www.gnomeradio.org/ for more information about the previous release 12.0.9 with the Ukrainian state broadcaster and it's location "Kyiv, Ukraine". Not mapped on OpenStreetMap. Best, Ole On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 5:12 PM Devin Ulibarri <[3][3]dev...@fsf.org> wrote: Hi, On 3/3/22 00:07, Richard Stallman wrote: > We all mistakes; we're all human. The ability to > admit a mistake is a sign of a wise human. As for me, the mistake I would like to admit is not being careful enough in choosing my words. I did not mean to suggest that the FSF was taking a particular public stance, when in fact, it has not (and is under no obligation to do so). I appreciate everyone's work toward the common vision of achieving user freedom, and I look forward to the discussions to come, as we all have a lot of work to do. Best wishes, Devin -- Devin Ulibarri // Outreach & Communications Coordinator Free Software Foundation Join the FSF and help us defend software freedom: [4][4]https://my.fsf.org/ US government employee? Use CFC charity code 63210 to support us through the Combined Federal Campaign. [5][5]https://cfcgiving.opm.gov/ GPG Key: 2E0E CE75 F816 2B40 7D66 6767 8797 38E6 D644 0D57 What's GPG? See [6][6]https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/ for more info. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [7][7]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [8][8]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discus s -- Ole Aamot Aamot Software / [9]www.aamot.software Frydenbergveien, 0575 OSLO, Norway (+47) 45049800 / [10][9]ole@aamot.software References 1. [10]https://download.gnome.org/sources/gnome-internet-radio-locator/12. 2/gnome-internet-radio-locator-12.2.0.tar.xz 2. [11]http://www.gnomeradio.org/ 3. mailto:[12]dev...@fsf.org 4. [13]https://my.fsf.org/ 5. [14]https://cfcgiving.opm.gov/ 6. [15]https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/ 7. mailto:[16]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 8. [17]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss 9. [18]http://www.aamot.software/ 10. mailto:[19]ole@aamot.software ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [20]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [21]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss References 1. https://download.gnome.org/sources/gnome-internet-radio-locator/12.2 2. http://www.gnomeradio.org/ 3. mailto:dev...@fsf.org 4. https://my.fsf.org/ 5. https://cfcgiving.opm.gov/ 6. https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/ 7. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 8. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discus 9. mailto:ole@aamot.software 10. https://download.gnome.org/sources/gnome-internet-radio-locator/12.2/gnome-internet-radio-locator-12.2.0.tar.xz 11. http://www.gnomeradio.org/ 12. mailto:dev...@fsf.org 13. https://my.fsf.org/ 14. https://cfcgiving.opm.gov/ 15. https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/ 16. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 17. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss 18. http://www.aamot.software/ 19. mailto:ole@aamot.software 20. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 21. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
Ukrainian state broadcaster is currently not GNOME Internet Radio Locator 12.2.0. Kyiv is under attack and we want to limit Russia and Putin's access to information. Is this wrong to think? Users are free to add their own radio stations as users into $HOME/.gnome-internet-radio-locator/gnome-internet-radio-locator.xml The release is available from [1]https://download.gnome.org/sources/gnome-internet-radio-locator/12.2 /gnome-internet-radio-locator-12.2.0.tar.xz and needs testing. See [2]http://www.gnomeradio.org/ for more information about the previous release 12.0.9 with the Ukrainian state broadcaster and it's location "Kyiv, Ukraine". Not mapped on OpenStreetMap. Best, Ole On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 5:12 PM Devin Ulibarri <[3]dev...@fsf.org> wrote: Hi, On 3/3/22 00:07, Richard Stallman wrote: > We all mistakes; we're all human. The ability to > admit a mistake is a sign of a wise human. As for me, the mistake I would like to admit is not being careful enough in choosing my words. I did not mean to suggest that the FSF was taking a particular public stance, when in fact, it has not (and is under no obligation to do so). I appreciate everyone's work toward the common vision of achieving user freedom, and I look forward to the discussions to come, as we all have a lot of work to do. Best wishes, Devin -- Devin Ulibarri // Outreach & Communications Coordinator Free Software Foundation Join the FSF and help us defend software freedom: [4]https://my.fsf.org/ US government employee? Use CFC charity code 63210 to support us through the Combined Federal Campaign. [5]https://cfcgiving.opm.gov/ GPG Key: 2E0E CE75 F816 2B40 7D66 6767 8797 38E6 D644 0D57 What's GPG? See [6]https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/ for more info. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [7]libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org [8]https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discus s -- Ole Aamot Aamot Software / [9]www.aamot.software Frydenbergveien, 0575 OSLO, Norway (+47) 45049800 / [10]ole@aamot.software References 1. https://download.gnome.org/sources/gnome-internet-radio-locator/12.2/gnome-internet-radio-locator-12.2.0.tar.xz 2. http://www.gnomeradio.org/ 3. mailto:dev...@fsf.org 4. https://my.fsf.org/ 5. https://cfcgiving.opm.gov/ 6. https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/ 7. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org 8. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss 9. http://www.aamot.software/ 10. mailto:ole@aamot.software ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
Hi, On 3/3/22 00:07, Richard Stallman wrote: > We all mistakes; we're all human. The ability to > admit a mistake is a sign of a wise human. As for me, the mistake I would like to admit is not being careful enough in choosing my words. I did not mean to suggest that the FSF was taking a particular public stance, when in fact, it has not (and is under no obligation to do so). I appreciate everyone's work toward the common vision of achieving user freedom, and I look forward to the discussions to come, as we all have a lot of work to do. Best wishes, Devin -- Devin Ulibarri // Outreach & Communications Coordinator Free Software Foundation Join the FSF and help us defend software freedom: https://my.fsf.org/ US government employee? Use CFC charity code 63210 to support us through the Combined Federal Campaign. https://cfcgiving.opm.gov/ GPG Key: 2E0E CE75 F816 2B40 7D66 6767 8797 38E6 D644 0D57 What's GPG? See https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/ for more info. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
hi all,
i would like firstly to express my immense gratitude for the forgiveness
thank you so much mr rms
then offer my sincere apologies, for not helping in making us all better
persons. tried i did. but, you know me.
and i specially offer my apology to Devin, whom i oh so easily judged.
i am sorry Devin. (wish we could go for a beer and lough about it some day)
###
so there is this joke, and its a bad one, just skip to the last three
lines of my letter
two friends are talking about a freudian slip
"you wouldn't believe what happened to me the other day. i wanted to buy
two tickets to pitsbourough (and the lady was in full blossom) but
instead of saying that, i said: could i please get two pickets to
titsbourough."
"that's nothing", says the other one
"i wanted to say to my wife: would you kindly please pass me that salt dear
but what came out was: you fucking bitch you've ruined my life."
{i really hope it's obvious which one of the two quacks is me}
###
i wish you all all the best
yt
g
On 3. 03. 22 06:07, Richard Stallman wrote:
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> backpaddle i shall not. apologise is a different thing.
> i spoke my mind. my mind is wrong. am in the process of talking to my
> mind, to see weather go with what most people read in Devins letter or
> stay where i was - wrong.
I forgive you. We all mistakes; we're all human. The ability to
admit a mistake is a sign of a wise human.
___
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Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] I'd like to ask everyone posting in this discussion to take another look at https://gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html. As we express our disagreements about substantial points, let's pay attention to the fact that we're all supporters of the free software cause, even when we disagree about details. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > backpaddle i shall not. apologise is a different thing. > i spoke my mind. my mind is wrong. am in the process of talking to my > mind, to see weather go with what most people read in Devins letter or > stay where i was - wrong. I forgive you. We all mistakes; we're all human. The ability to admit a mistake is a sign of a wise human. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
* Valentino Giudice [2022-03-02 09:19]: > > when Devin answers with: " 'what' the FSF ... ", that 'what' makes me > > think that there is something going on > > Stop right there. > Devin is only responsible for what he writes, not for what you > think. It is not simple like that Valentino. Devin has signed his email as being the FSF community outreach officer. And he did make references to FSF directly. If Devin would be talking like you, it would be clear that Valentino is not FSF officer or community outreach -- so it becomes clear that statement is not FSF statement. I am however sure that Devin understood the presentation and that he knows how to speak for himself and how to speak in front of or in the name of organization. If I am FSF officer, then I can send email from my private email address and in capacity as myself; or I can make clear I speak my opinion, and not represent FSF. So that is from where little confusion came, nothing really significant. > > but then, is there the same amount of active engagemant on all the > > other issues? and that is no trivial question, for there might be > > monsanto using free software for spraying prohibited neonicotins, > > Which is something the FSF doesn't legally have to care about. > But because there are US sanctions against Russia, the FSF, and any > other US organization, has to comply. Yes please, though also it would be kind not to generalize. FSF complies to what specifically? To comply to what? As not to accept Putin as FSF member and his politicans? Like what exactly. Let us not generalize, sanctions by US are specific, government did so much care to make it specific, they have named individual people who are sanctioned. Is post office and mailing of items to Russia sanctioned? I am sure it is difficult, but is it sanctioned? Is the person Russian Mr. ABC sanctioned? If not, FSF can ship whatever items. Including FSF can receive donations from Russians, that is not sanctioned. Don't mix everything with everything. Russian people are too many, don't accuse and blame all of the nation for politics. And that politics was anyway caused by US, so first go from where it was caused. Reference: US Congress stops funding for Ukraine's war-criminal, neo-Nazi Azov Battalion -- Puppet Masters -- Sott.net https://www.sott.net/article/350064-US-Congress-stops-funding-for-Ukraines-war-criminal-neo-Nazi-Azov-Battalion > >... and then we come to the problem of arbitrirary choosing as best as > > we can, out of zillion unjustices, which ones we will fight against. > > But the FSF is not fighting against this injustice. In fact, the FSF > is not even claiming the ongoing situation is an injustice. > The FSF is just "chosing" anything, it's just doing what it has to as > a US organization. That is correct, FSF should abide to its articles of incorporation, goals and purposes, and straighten freedom of software. FSF has already pointed out to injustices like privacy and communication, I guess also censorship. It is related to free software as such may provide privacy, straight communication without surveillance and avoid censorship. In those areas it would be right to say that human rights abuses are occuring now in many countries which are blocking all of the Russian media, and Russia blocking other media and giving back in same way and conducting censorhip. We cannot even get the viewpoint from other side to decide for ourselves. That is called mass hypnosis, as invented by Goebels, Hitler's propagandist. > The US government. Do you think the FSF decided these sanctions? Apropos, FSF could be incorporated in other countries where such sanctions do not exist and it could have independent groups of people who act on their own and who are not under any sanctions. For example, somebody could make FSF-like organization in Iran or in Russia, and promote free software. It is needed there too. > > > so i wonder what would this selective active engagement in our case > > mean. > > It means the FSF is complying with the law. It has to. And that is right, however, don't generalize, it shall comply to specific laws, not to rumors. See above generalization vs. specifics. > > find it very rude to be calling civilians to go to war. i find it > > very very rude to be coming from FSF. > > That literally never happened. The FSF never called for anyone to go > to war. But his viewpoint is understandable. That is what I said, when representative of organization expresses his private opinion, that opinion shall be separate, individual, best not even told on Libreplanet mailing list. Libreplanet is for Russian and Ukrainian equally. That was small problem, though there is no significant impact. > > or am i wrong? > > You are wrong. And I say, he is wrong. :-) > As Stallman has said, Devin's answer was incomplete. But he didn't > say anything wrong. Unless you read way too much into it. While he did not say anything wrong, he represented FSF an
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
hello, thank you for taking the time for fencing my blabberings. tried as i could, it was best i could do (write) what you are saying makes a lot of sense. i need to read it few times more (to let it sip through the thickness of my bone) i didn't have the oportunity, have not received any mail from lib.plan since my agitated mail. but i did receive the one you've mentioned, by mr rms, well, the one where he nicely denies any charge (i was accusing Devins letter of). i read it couple times, but couldn't come to differently judge Devins letter. the book i go by, strongly condems judging other people and i am a bad personn for doing that to Devin. anti-war triggerhappy soldier that i am. i hope Devin can forgive me some day. yes, as you've stated - i must have read way way too much into it. . if most of readers got the meanning you presented, then i am surelly wrong. and it would be backpedalling on my side trying with the cultural difference excuse. backpaddle i shall not. apologise is a different thing. i spoke my mind. my mind is wrong. am in the process of talking to my mind, to see weather go with what most people read in Devins letter or stay where i was - wrong. again, thank you for taking the time g ps i wrote the above, thinking your letter was sent to me only, now just about to send i see is for all, i will leave it as it is, sending it to all On 2. 03. 22 07:18, Valentino Giudice wrote: when Devin answers with: " 'what' the FSF ... ", that 'what' makes me think that there is something going on Stop right there. Devin is only responsible for what he writes, not for what you think. but then, is there the same amount of active engagemant on all the other issues? and that is no trivial question, for there might be monsanto using free software for spraying prohibited neonicotins, Which is something the FSF doesn't legally have to care about. But because there are US sanctions against Russia, the FSF, and any other US organization, has to comply. ... and then we come to the problem of arbitrirary choosing as best as we can, out of zillion unjustices, which ones we will fight against. But the FSF is not fighting against this injustice. In fact, the FSF is not even claiming the ongoing situation is an injustice. The FSF is just "chosing" anything, it's just doing what it has to as a US organization. so who will decide The US government. Do you think the FSF decided these sanctions? so i wonder what would this selective active engagement in our case mean. It means the FSF is complying with the law. It has to. and i come to the conclusion, that it is a political stance. You came to the wrong conclusion. the answer or rather the lack of it, shows complete support of emotionally charged jacobs opinion By the same logic, I could argue that unless the FSF expressly condemns the Russian government, it means it supports it. Would that make sense? Absolutely not, because this logic doesn't make sense. Not saying something doesn't equate saying the opposite. What would imply endorsement of what Jacob said is if Devin expressly endorsed it, which isn't what happened. While I was attempting to reply to your email, I will have to skip part of it. It's so badly written I can't even parse it. You should really put more effort in your writing. i find it very rude to be calling civilians to go to war. i find it very very rude to be coming from FSF. That literally never happened. The FSF never called for anyone to go to war. or am i wrong? You are wrong. The FSF is only political when it comes to software freedom and related topics. The US government, however, *is* political and the FSF will comply with US law. he is taking a stand in a war which he is no part of. The stand is "we will literally follow the law, which we have to". None is recruiting soldiers, not on the FSF mailing list. Devin's "answer" effectively didn't answer Jacob's question at all. Some others did answer it, including Richard Stallman, a member of the board of directors of the FSF. And the consensus seems pretty clear to me: the answer to Jacob's question is NO. As Stallman has said, Devin's answer was incomplete. But he didn't say anything wrong. Unless you read way too much into it. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
> when Devin answers with: " 'what' the FSF ... ", that 'what' makes me > think that there is something going on Stop right there. Devin is only responsible for what he writes, not for what you think. > but then, is there the same amount of active engagemant on all the > other issues? and that is no trivial question, for there might be > monsanto using free software for spraying prohibited neonicotins, Which is something the FSF doesn't legally have to care about. But because there are US sanctions against Russia, the FSF, and any other US organization, has to comply. >... and then we come to the problem of arbitrirary choosing as best as > we can, out of zillion unjustices, which ones we will fight against. But the FSF is not fighting against this injustice. In fact, the FSF is not even claiming the ongoing situation is an injustice. The FSF is just "chosing" anything, it's just doing what it has to as a US organization. > so who will decide The US government. Do you think the FSF decided these sanctions? > so i wonder what would this selective active engagement in our case > mean. It means the FSF is complying with the law. It has to. > and i come to the conclusion, that it is a political stance. You came to the wrong conclusion. > the answer or > rather the lack of it, shows complete support of emotionally charged > jacobs opinion By the same logic, I could argue that unless the FSF expressly condemns the Russian government, it means it supports it. Would that make sense? Absolutely not, because this logic doesn't make sense. Not saying something doesn't equate saying the opposite. What would imply endorsement of what Jacob said is if Devin expressly endorsed it, which isn't what happened. While I was attempting to reply to your email, I will have to skip part of it. It's so badly written I can't even parse it. You should really put more effort in your writing. > i > find it very rude to be calling civilians to go to war. i find it very > very rude to be coming from FSF. That literally never happened. The FSF never called for anyone to go to war. > or am i wrong? You are wrong. The FSF is only political when it comes to software freedom and related topics. The US government, however, *is* political and the FSF will comply with US law. > he is taking a > stand in a war which he is no part of. The stand is "we will literally follow the law, which we have to". None is recruiting soldiers, not on the FSF mailing list. Devin's "answer" effectively didn't answer Jacob's question at all. Some others did answer it, including Richard Stallman, a member of the board of directors of the FSF. And the consensus seems pretty clear to me: the answer to Jacob's question is NO. As Stallman has said, Devin's answer was incomplete. But he didn't say anything wrong. Unless you read way too much into it. ___ libreplanet-discuss mailing list libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?> the headache of it all dissolves in forgiveness
dear mr rms, i will always and more than gladly think, before answering any letter that you send me. it is always an honour. let me not even begin, by putting some caveats first: as for all the spelling mistakes, please bear with them(you might specially notice how gladly i dont use capital letters, i never knew where to put comas, must be sort of personal coma koma, etc.). and the clumsines of my english must be known by now. as for the humor, i realize mine is not funny for most people, but i know surrelly of one, who is always laughing at them. those jokes are for him. be that thinking even harmfull to me, i will do it. you my kind sir, are a treasure, time will only tell the greatness of. "pa pojdimo lepo po vrsti, kot so tudi hiše v trsti" is what we would say for such an occasion (its never late to start learning another language, my mothers tonge is beautiful) firstly i thought of doing the positive logical approach, that is to say, i shall write a letter of answer to Jaocob H., the way i imagine it would and should be written (outreach, communications, emphasis). for the difference of negative approach, where i go and try to dismantle or rather go against(hence negative aproach) - one by one - Devins statments, claims, toughs etc., which i will do in a second part. then in the third part, i shall try answering your questions. is also why i use word: logical swordfigt - for me it connotates a negative logic approach dialog, and is also why i claim headaches for thinking. i dont like to fight, gives head&heart ache. so here goes nothing (like in that monthypython meanning of life, where the french waiter takes us to see "it", only to dismiss us in the end) so what was rude? you ask. the logic of it all. it hurt my logic. rudeness which was to hurt my feelings of ratio, strange huh? the sheer prepostorous reassoning behind it all. so i go now dismantle that poor selection of wordings (watch the head boy) /*let me first find that letter ... here it is ... ### On 2/24/22 03:04, Jacob Hrbek wrote: Today russian forces invaded ukraine and started an unprovoked war with free software being used across russia and in the government thus playing a major role in russia's war capabilities. What the FSF is taking action on immediately is abiding economic sanctions against Russia. This effects distribution of shop orders and membership cards, for example. ### POSITIVE: my dear mr. Jacob H., (i already see, it will be hard for me to drop the usual cinisizm i would personally use, i would say here something like --- wtf, go read the 4 freedoms, meditate on it and come back. but as an ourtreach comm, it could be something like:) your claim in the first statement is full of very opinioneated statements, (aaah, see, thats not good altough they all are just that) try nr.2 dear mr jacob H., the sentiments you express are your personal ones. please refrain from expressing them on this list, because they are very very contraversial, and we dont want nor need to involve ourselves and our organisation in them contraversies. i might share them, we all might (or none), but it is completelly out of the scope of this list, also, let me remind you, that FSF is not a political organization. so, rude as it may sound, lets not talk politics here, shall we. try3: dear mr J.H., there is always much contraversies, let alone tragedies, around us all. i can see your emotional reaction and can appreciate it as such, but, FSF is not, can not and shall not be part of any such controversies let alone worse. i would also like to remind you, that going by emotions in this case is just worsening the situation, so please, think better of it. NEGATIVE: when Devin answers with: " 'what' the FSF ... ", that 'what' makes me think that there is something going on, something extraordinare (for the difference of uganda, tunguzija and slovenija, where daily people suffer) but lets see, what comes next: "... is taking action on immediately" , so there is active immediate response, by which i imagine some people doing the research on how to best fullfill " ... is abiding economic sanctions against Russia ..." oh, is not that bad, still shows to me there is an active engagement in abiding them sanctions, and that, as much as i dont like(active engagement), must be done. but then, is there the same amount of active engagemant on all the other issues? and that is no trivial question, for there might be monsanto using free software for spraying prohibited neonicotins, or ... and then we come to the problem of arbitrirary choosing as best as we can, out of zillion unjustices, which ones we will fight against. monsanto? terrorists? bad jokes? so who will decide - Freud or Jung? who's the arbiter. very Pandoraboxical you
