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Re: GPLv2 'web-app loophole'
On Tuesday 07 August 2001 06:27 pm, Karsten M. Self wrote: > Note that this rule doesn't hole for Java, Javascript, Flash, and other > forms of content that are transmitted to, and executed on, the client's > host. In this case, code is distributed to the user's system. I'd > argue GPL distribution obligations would triggered. I agree, and I hope I didn't imply that. If the Java, Flash, etc., content is under the GPL, then its transmittal over the web falls under the GPL. Whether or not they can be *runtime* linked to non-GPL applications is another topic. -- David Johnson ___ http://www.usermode.org
Re: GPLv2 'web-app loophole'
on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 06:15:12PM -0700, David Johnson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > On Tuesday 07 August 2001 05:13 am, Rod Dixon, J.D., LL.M. wrote: > > > Hmm... This is an interesting argument. You seem to be saying that you > > doubt that some/all web-apps (scripts that execute on the server) load into > > an end-user's RAM? > > That's part of what I'm saying. And if the web-app isn't being > distributed/copied to the user, then the GPL cannot regulate web-apps based > on that. Note that this rule doesn't hole for Java, Javascript, Flash, and other forms of content that are transmitted to, and executed on, the client's host. In this case, code is distributed to the user's system. I'd argue GPL distribution obligations would triggered. -- Karsten M. Self <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA!http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hirehttp://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html PGP signature
Re: GPLv2 'web-app loophole'
On Tuesday 07 August 2001 05:13 am, Rod Dixon, J.D., LL.M. wrote: > Hmm... This is an interesting argument. You seem to be saying that you > doubt that some/all web-apps (scripts that execute on the server) load into > an end-user's RAM? That's part of what I'm saying. And if the web-app isn't being distributed/copied to the user, then the GPL cannot regulate web-apps based on that. > Certainly, you do not mean to say that the GNU GPL or some other open > source license cannot be applied to a web-app or any software application > running on a server because the public performance right is outside the > scope of the license as it iscurrently drafted? If so, then I am hopeful > that the case I cited at the outset should have some impact on your > thinking. My point is not whether a thing can be done, but whether it should be done at all. I don't believe that Open Source licenses should regulate in any way the actual execution of the software. -- David Johnson ___ http://www.usermode.org
VENTURE CAPITAL
URGENT BUSINESS PROPOSAL This letter may come to you as a surprise since it is coming from someone you have not met before. However, we decided to contact you based on a satisfactory information we had about your business person as regard business information concerning your country and the safety of our funds in a steady economy such as that of your country compared to our country Nigeria Africa. I am a civil adviser currently working with the monitoring committee overseeing the winding up of the petroleum trust fund(PTF).Myself and my close and trusted colleagues need your assistance in the transfer of US$25 million into any reliable Account you may nominate overseas. This fund was generated from over-invoicing of contracts executed by the PTF under the administration of the past military government. These were discovered while we were reviewing the PTF accounts. From our discoveries, these contracts have been executed and the contractors in question were all paid. The difference of US$25,000,000 being the over-invoiced amount is the funds, we want your corporate entity to help us receive. What we want from you is a good and reliable company or personal Account into which we shall transfer this fund. Details should include the following: 1. Name of Bank 2. Address of Bank with Fax & Tel. 3. Account Number 4. Beneficiary/Signatory to Account (Account Name) Upon the Successful crediting of your account. The fund will be sharedas follows: 1. 20% for you and your assistance 2. 75% for myself & my Colleagues 3. 5% for contingency expenses Please after your first reply through e-mail I will want us to continue further communication by fax and telephone for confidential purpose. We wish to assure you that your involvement should you decide to assist us, will be well protected, and also, this business, proposal is 100% risk free as we have put a whole lot into it. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation while we look forward to a mutually benefiting business relationship with you. Please when replying to my e-mail kindly include your telephone, fax number and mobile telephone numbers preferably extremely private numbers where we can reach you any time of the day. Please be aware that a high level of confidentiality and trust is required in this business. You can reach me on my confidential telephone number 234 1 7754093 and my fax number 234 9 2720239. Best Regards, George Umia. Tel No.: 234 1 7754093 Fax No.:234 9 2720239 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: VENTURE CAPITAL
>URGENT BUSINESS PROPOSAL
{snip}
That yahoo account will no longer be disturbing anyone ... pay it no mind.
d
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| [EMAIL PROTECTED] | "Conan! What is best in life?" |
| Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them|
| |driven before you, and to hear the |
| |lamentation of their women!" |
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VENTURE CAPITAL
URGENT BUSINESS PROPOSAL This letter may come to you as a surprise since it is coming from someone you have not met before. However, we decided to contact you based on a satisfactory information we had about your business person as regard business information concerning your country and the safety of our funds in a steady economy such as that of your country compared to our country Nigeria Africa. I am a civil adviser currently working with the monitoring committee overseeing the winding up of the petroleum trust fund(PTF).Myself and my close and trusted colleagues need your assistance in the transfer of US$25 million into any reliable Account you may nominate overseas. This fund was generated from over-invoicing of contracts executed by the PTF under the administration of the past military government. These were discovered while we were reviewing the PTF accounts. From our discoveries, these contracts have been executed and the contractors in question were all paid. The difference of US$25,000,000 being the over-invoiced amount is the funds, we want your corporate entity to help us receive. What we want from you is a good and reliable company or personal Account into which we shall transfer this fund. Details should include the following: 1. Name of Bank 2. Address of Bank with Fax & Tel. 3. Account Number 4. Beneficiary/Signatory to Account (Account Name) Upon the Successful crediting of your account. The fund will be sharedas follows: 1. 20% for you and your assistance 2. 75% for myself & my Colleagues 3. 5% for contingency expenses Please after your first reply through e-mail I will want us to continue further communication by fax and telephone for confidential purpose. We wish to assure you that your involvement should you decide to assist us, will be well protected, and also, this business, proposal is 100% risk free as we have put a whole lot into it. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation while we look forward to a mutually benefiting business relationship with you. Please when replying to my e-mail kindly include your telephone, fax number and mobile telephone numbers preferably extremely private numbers where we can reach you any time of the day. Please be aware that a high level of confidentiality and trust is required in this business. You can reach me on my confidential telephone number 234 1 7754093 and my fax number 234 9 2720239. Best Regards, George Umia. Tel No.: 234 1 7754093 Fax No.:234 9 2720239 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
VENTURE CAPITAL
URGENT BUSINESS PROPOSAL This letter may come to you as a surprise since it is coming from someone you have not met before. However, we decided to contact you based on a satisfactory information we had about your business person as regard business information concerning your country and the safety of our funds in a steady economy such as that of your country compared to our country Nigeria Africa. I am a civil adviser currently working with the monitoring committee overseeing the winding up of the petroleum trust fund(PTF).Myself and my close and trusted colleagues need your assistance in the transfer of US$25 million into any reliable Account you may nominate overseas. This fund was generated from over-invoicing of contracts executed by the PTF under the administration of the past military government. These were discovered while we were reviewing the PTF accounts. From our discoveries, these contracts have been executed and the contractors in question were all paid. The difference of US$25,000,000 being the over-invoiced amount is the funds, we want your corporate entity to help us receive. What we want from you is a good and reliable company or personal Account into which we shall transfer this fund. Details should include the following: 1. Name of Bank 2. Address of Bank with Fax & Tel. 3. Account Number 4. Beneficiary/Signatory to Account (Account Name) Upon the Successful crediting of your account. The fund will be sharedas follows: 1. 20% for you and your assistance 2. 75% for myself & my Colleagues 3. 5% for contingency expenses Please after your first reply through e-mail I will want us to continue further communication by fax and telephone for confidential purpose. We wish to assure you that your involvement should you decide to assist us, will be well protected, and also, this business, proposal is 100% risk free as we have put a whole lot into it. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation while we look forward to a mutually benefiting business relationship with you. Please when replying to my e-mail kindly include your telephone, fax number and mobile telephone numbers preferably extremely private numbers where we can reach you any time of the day. Please be aware that a high level of confidentiality and trust is required in this business. You can reach me on my confidential telephone number 234 1 7754093 and my fax number 234 9 2720239. Best Regards, George Umia. Tel No.: 234 1 7754093 Fax No.:234 9 2720239 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: GPLv2 'web-app loophole'
> > On Monday 06 August 2001 08:42 pm, Rod Dixon, J.D., LL.M. wrote: > > This sounds like "much ado about nothing." As is well-known, software is > > not an easy fit within copyright doctrine. I am unsure whether > there is a > > relevant distinction between "use" and copy as far as software is > > concerned. Copyright interests are invoked when one "uses" > software as long > > as the prevailing view is that a RAM copy is a *copy* as that terms is > > defined and understood by reference to the Copyright Act. Hence, I doubt > > whether an ASP or a "web-app" presents a case for a loophole in the GPL. > > If using the software constitutes copying, and thus regulated by the GPL, > then does this mean I have to release private modifications I have made > within my own home? I distinctly recall RMS arguing strenuously > against this. This is tricky because we need to distinguish what the license authorizes from what the default rules of copyright law provide. I believe RMS is referring to the terms of the GPL, which certainly may authorize in-home personal use (and is likely to be consistent with copyright law regarding *public* distributions). In MAI Systems Corporation v. Peak Computer, Inc., 999 F.2d 511 (9th Cir. 1993), the Ninth Circuit held that unauthorized "copying, for purposed of copyright law occurs when a computer program is transferred from a permanent storage device to a computer's RAM." Many commentators think the Ninth Circuit was wrong, but other courts have cited this decision favorably. The upshot is that with regard to software, an end-user's "use" of the program where the program is loaded into RAM constitutes a copy within the meaning of the Copyright Act ( 17 U.S.C. 101). > The GPL clearly states that the execution of the program is > outside of the > bounds of the license. And copyright law allows for the execution of the > program in RAM by the legal owner of the copy. I don't see how anyone can > argue that what I do in the privacy of my own home on my own > computer with my > own legal copy of GPLd software is the legal jurisdiction of the author. > > Public performance is another matter, and is unfortunately not > covered by the > GPL. Abe wanted to "feel out people's attitudes regarding this 'web-app > loophole'", so I offered up my attitude. Regardless of what the authors' > rights may be by law, I don't believe that Open Source / Free > Software should > make any attempt to restrict public performance. Agreed. Public performance does not seem to be the most likely argument to make in this type of case. > > But I don't think that web-apps even constitute public > performance! When a > book is read aloud or a film shown for public performance, the > audience will > actually receive a copy of the copyrighted materially aurally and > visually. > But such is not the case for a web application. The software will only be > copied to the legal owner's servers, and the only thing the user > receives is > the output of the program, not the program itself. Hmm... This is an interesting argument. You seem to be saying that you doubt that some/all web-apps (scripts that execute on the server) load into an end-user's RAM? If so, there might be a plausible way to distinguish some web-apps, but this migth not lead to rigorous legal analysis (too many exceptions). Of course, the person who posted the question was also referring to the alleged initial impermissible copy by the user who downloaded (copied) the script and uploaded (copied) it to his/her server. > > An analogous situation would be for an attorney using copyrighted > law books > to prepare a brief for a client. The law books have not been performed > publicly. > > I myself have had one of my applications converted to a CGI > program with a > public interface on a public server. I could not in good > conscience refer to > my program as "free" if I placed restrictions on that type of > usage. To me it > would be beyond the bounds of propriety. If I wanted to restrict > the program > in such a way, then I would not make it Open Source, and instead > lease it out. > > -- > David Johnson I agree that the public performance issue is likely to be a non-starter in a case like this. I am still unsure why this is viewed as significant. Certainly, you do not mean to say that the GNU GPL or some other open source license cannot be applied to a web-app or any software application running on a server because the public performance right is outside the scope of the license as it iscurrently drafted? If so, then I am hopeful that the case I cited at the outset should have some impact on your thinking. Rod
