Re: 2 songs on one page

[Dmytro O. Redchuk]

У нд, 2010-01-10 у 15:38 -0800, Patrick Horgan пише:
> Kieren MacMillan wrote:
> > Your post brings up a good point: each LSR snippet page should explicitly 
> > say this.
> > It would make life easier for everyone.
> >   
> Wouldn't that be grand.  I thought of suggesting it, but wondered
> about whether every page should take up space for something people
> only need to hear once.   Of course there are a lot of people seeing a
> page from the LSR for the first time.
Every page could have a link to "How to use LSR"... if it could contain
something more then simply "Click on the picture", thought.

Well, not to much questions about that so far, probably?

ps. May be, some thicks in CSS for these pictures? To prepend small
"Click to see the code" or the like?..

> Regards,
> Patrick

-- 
  Dmytro O. Redchuk



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Re: Staff Tab notation support?

[Carl Sorensen]

On 1/10/10 9:43 PM, "Eric Knapp"  wrote:

> 
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Carl Sorensen  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Eric,
>> 
>> I don't think that this is hugely difficult to make work.  (Of course, I'm
>> not doing it, so it's easy for me to say that -- talk's cheap).
>> 
> 
> I would be happy to start working on this. I will probably try to get
> others in the Stick community to help or maybe see if one of my
> students would be interested.
> 
>> Let me see if I understand correctly.  The staff lines in Staff Tab have two
>> different purposes.  First of all, they represent normal staff lines for the
>> notes, which show up as real notes but with special heads that indicate the
>> finger to be used.  Secondly, the staff lines represent the strings on which
>> the notes are played, and the rectangles that show up in the note column
>> show which string should be played.
> 
> That's correct. There are some positioning issues that I didn't
> mention. When there is a chord, the string indicator rectangles are
> positioned in the shape that the fingers make on the strings. I can
> give more details later.
> 

Yes, I noticed that, and that the fret numbers were separated by a period,
and that the fret number was over the respective string indicator.

>> 
>> The numbers above or below the staff represent the fret for the strings that
>> are shown on the staff lines below.
>> 
>> Is this right?
>> 
> 
> That's correct. I have been creating lyrics for these numbers. When
> people do StaffTab in Finale or Sibelius they also use the lyric tools
> in those apps.
> 
>> If so, then here are some suggestions:
>> 
>> 1)  The string indications could easily be created by a
>> staff-string-engraver.  (This engraver could be written in Scheme, now that
>> Han-Wen has given us the capability of writing engravers in Scheme).  It
>> would listen to string-number-events, and create the appropriate rectangle
>> stencils (and rectangle stencils are trivial to make).
> 
> With 12 strings and 24 frets there are a lot of places where the same
> note can be played. For example, with the tuning I use there are 9
> fret/string combinations for middle C. It is true that there are
> common spots where middle C is more often played, but we have to be
> able to override any automatic choice that the engraver would pick.
> 

I don't envision the engraver making automatic choices, at least at the
first.  But if you want it to, you'll have to come up with the algorithm.

Right now, for guitar tablature, we have two different algorithms for
determining string number -- one for fret diagrams and one for tab staff.
This is a bug, and I'm currently working on fixing it.

>> 
>> 2) The fret number indications could be created by a fret-number-engraver.
>> It would listen to both note-events and string-number-events, and would
>> calculate the fret numbers based on the note, string number, and string
>> tuning.
> 
> Sounds good with the above comment in mind. We have to be able to
> specify the exact string and fret for any given note sometimes. Also,
> there are many different ways to tune a Stick. There are 8 common ones
> for my type of Stick alone. And there are many people who use custom
> tunings. There are also several different kinds of sticks with
> different numbers of strings and different ranges. I think it would be
> necessary to be able to enter a tuning.

There is already a method for entering string tunings.  A string tuning is a
scheme list that contains the number of semitones away from middle C for
each string.  It should directly apply to the StafTab notation.

One should never have to specify the fret.  By specifying the pitch, the
tuning, and the string, the fret can be calculated.  LilyPond already has
entry notation for pitch and string number, so no new entry syntax is needed
to get the StaffTab information.  This is a bonus, because you don't need to
mess with the parser.

> 
>> 
>> 3) The note-heads could be created by a staff-tab-note-engraver.  It would
>> listen to note-events and fingering-events, and would adjust the note-head
>> shape based on the fingering events.
>> 
> 
> Sounds good.
> 
>> Putting the ChordNames context between the two staffs is no problem.
>> 
>> To get the nicely lined up fret numbers, we may want to make a FretNumbers
>> context, which would contain the fret-number-engraver.
>> 
>> With all this in place, I'd assume that the LilyPond file would look
>> something like this
>> 
>> leftHandMusic = {...} (include the string and finger notations in the music
>> 
>> rightHandMusic = { ...} (again, include the string and finger notations)
>> 
>> chordMusic = \chordmode {...}
>> 
>> \new StaffGroup {
>>  <<
>>    \new FretNumbers { \rightHandMusic }
>>    \new Staff {\rightHandMusic }
>>    \new ChordNames { \chordMusic }
>>    \new Staff { \leftHandMusic }
>>    \new FretNumbers { \leftHandMusic}
>>  >>
>> }
>> 
>> \context Staff {
>>   \consists staff-tab-note-engraver
>> }
>> 
> 
> That loo

Re: Staff Tab notation support?

[Carl Sorensen]

On 1/10/10 9:25 AM, "Eric Knapp"  wrote:

> Thanks for the offer, Carl. I have attached a clip of the current
> state of the notation system. There is a custom music font in
> PostScript Type 1 and TrueType here:
> http://www.arthurdurkee.net/stickfonts.html.
> 
> StaffTab is a way to combine standard music notation with guitar-like
> tablature notation. Since the Chapman String has 10 or 12 strings the
> lines on a piano staff are used to represent the strings. Custom
> notehead shapes indicate fingerings, small lines on the staff lines
> indicate strings, small numbers above and below the staves indicate
> frets. This allows a complete communication between composer and Stick
> player. For those who read standard music notation, this extra
> information gives the full intention of the composer. Many Stick
> players come from guitar or electric bass and are more comfortable
> with tabs. StaffTab allows those folks to get learn the piece and also
> learn some standard notation along the way.
> 
> I have annotated the StaffTab sample I attached with more details. I
> teach computer programming at a college and have been lightly working
> on this for a few years now. However, I'm a busy teacher and dad, and
> I can't spend a huge amount of time on this. With a little guidance, I
> would be much more inspired. I was starting to feel like the only way
> I could implement was to learn Scheme and write a function that
> surrounds normal lilypond notation that includes fingerings and
> changes the noteheads and takes a guess as to the string. Then I could
> have some way to indicate strings when the function guessed wrong.
> 
> Is this the only approach that would work? Is there an easier way? My
> goal is for this is probably a similar goal to the lilypond community.
> I want musicians who are computer literate to be able to use this, not
> just computer programmers.
> 
> Thanks for all the input I've received so far, I'm looking forward to
> making progress on this project.

Eric,

I don't think that this is hugely difficult to make work.  (Of course, I'm
not doing it, so it's easy for me to say that -- talk's cheap).

Let me see if I understand correctly.  The staff lines in Staff Tab have two
different purposes.  First of all, they represent normal staff lines for the
notes, which show up as real notes but with special heads that indicate the
finger to be used.  Secondly, the staff lines represent the strings on which
the notes are played, and the rectangles that show up in the note column
show which string should be played.

The numbers above or below the staff represent the fret for the strings that
are shown on the staff lines below.

Is this right?

If so, then here are some suggestions:

1)  The string indications could easily be created by a
staff-string-engraver.  (This engraver could be written in Scheme, now that
Han-Wen has given us the capability of writing engravers in Scheme).  It
would listen to string-number-events, and create the appropriate rectangle
stencils (and rectangle stencils are trivial to make).

2) The fret number indications could be created by a fret-number-engraver.
It would listen to both note-events and string-number-events, and would
calculate the fret numbers based on the note, string number, and string
tuning.

3) The note-heads could be created by a staff-tab-note-engraver.  It would
listen to note-events and fingering-events, and would adjust the note-head
shape based on the fingering events.

Putting the ChordNames context between the two staffs is no problem.

To get the nicely lined up fret numbers, we may want to make a FretNumbers
context, which would contain the fret-number-engraver.

With all this in place, I'd assume that the LilyPond file would look
something like this

leftHandMusic = {...} (include the string and finger notations in the music

rightHandMusic = { ...} (again, include the string and finger notations)

chordMusic = \chordmode {...}

\new StaffGroup {
  <<
\new FretNumbers { \rightHandMusic }
\new Staff {\rightHandMusic }
\new ChordNames { \chordMusic }
\new Staff { \leftHandMusic }
\new FretNumbers { \leftHandMusic}
 >>
}

\context Staff {
   \consists staff-tab-note-engraver
}

I think all of the infrastructure to do this easily is currently available
in LilyPond.  If you're willing to give it a shot, let's give it a try.

Thanks,

Carl

P.S. The leftHandMusic and rightHandMusic callouts in the above are based on
my observation of the video on the Chapman Stick website, where it appears
that the low notes are played with the left hand and the high notes are
played with the right hand.  If that's wrong, you could easily fix it.





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Re: [frogs] Re: Numeric note heads for singers

[Neil Puttock]

2010/1/10 Patrick Horgan :

> on 2.13.11 built from trunk.  I do get an output with pretty numbered note
> heads though.

The Scheme_engraver wasn't added until yesterday, so you probably need
to update your local repository and rebuild.

Regards,
Neil


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Re: lilypond-book question

[John Mandereau]

Le jeudi 07 janvier 2010 à 10:47 +0100, Mats Bengtsson a écrit : 
> > What do all (pdf)(La)TeX users on this list think about making
> > lilypond-book implcitly set latex-program option to 'pdflatex' if the
> > format is 'latex' and --pdf option is set?
> >   
> This definitely makes sense. Since I have never explicitly specified a 
> pdftex option to any package, I haven't thought about the problem, but 
> it's obviously better if lilypond-book uses pdflatex when it internally 
> figures out the line width if it knows that that's what the user will 
> use to process the full document.

Done,
John 


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Re: [frogs] Re: Numeric note heads for singers

[Patrick Horgan]

pound...@lineone.net wrote:

... elision by patrick ...
  

This:

\layout {
  \context {
\Voice
\consists \ez-numbers-engraver
  }
}
  

Gives this error:
numerNoteHeads2.ly:29:14: error: syntax error, unexpected 
SCM_IDENTIFIER, expecting STRING

   \consists
 \ez-numbers-engraver

on 2.13.11 built from trunk.  I do get an output with pretty numbered 
note heads though.


Patrick



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Re: [frogs] Re: Numeric note heads for singers

[Neil Puttock]

2010/1/10 pound...@lineone.net :

> Actually, the new scheme engraver functionality is so good that the
> code below seems to do the trick.

Great!

> Unfortunately, it doesn't demonstrate
> very much of what can be done with engravers,

Well, I did say it would be a gentle introduction. :)

> but I can turn it into a
> snippet if it would be useful.

Please do.

If you look in snippets/new, you'll see all the current snippets which
use features from the development version (so they can't go directly
in the LSR).  All you need to do is cook up an example in the same
format (there's a README which explains a few details, such as the
tagging), and create a patch for us to review.  If you have any
problems or need some guidance, let me or Carl know.

Once the snippet's been added, we can probably use it as a selected
example in the Notation Reference.

>           (note-names
>             (map
>               (lambda (x)
>                 (list->string
>                   (list
>                     (integer->char
>                       (+ 1 delta (char->integer #\0))
>              '(0 1 2 3 4 5 6
>        (ly:grob-set-property! grob 'note-names (list->vector note-
> names)

This is rather nifty, but it would be much simpler just to create the
vector directly:

(make-vector (number->string (1+ delta)))

Cheers,
Neil


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Re: 2 songs on one page

[Patrick Horgan]

Kieren MacMillan wrote:

  Hi Patrick (et al.),

  
  
for people who haven't used the LSR (lilypond snippet repository) before,
if you click on the pretty pictures of things you want to do,
they turn into lilypond code for you to learn from:)  It's all automagic.

  
  
Your post brings up a good point: each LSR snippet page should explicitly say this.
It would make life easier for everyone.
  

Wouldn't that be grand.  I thought of suggesting it, but wondered about
whether every page should take up space for something people only need
to hear once.   Of course there are a lot of people seeing a page from
the LSR for the first time.

  
Cheers,
Kieren.
  

Regards,
Patrick






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Re: [frogs] Re: Numeric note heads for singers

[pound...@lineone.net]

>Original Message
>From: pound...@lineone.net
>Date: 10/01/2010 19:46 
>To: 
>Cc: "Ian Hulin", "lilypond-user@gnu.org", "fr...@lilynet.net", 
>Subj: Re: [frogs] Re: Numeric note heads for singers
>
>
>
>>Original Message
>>From: n.putt...@gmail.com
>>Date: 10/01/2010 19:16 
>>To: "pound...@lineone.net"
>>Cc: "Ian Hulin", "fr...@lilynet.net"
net>, "lilypond-user@gnu.org", 
edu>
>>Subj: Re: [frogs] Re: Numeric note heads for singers
>>
>>2010/1/10 pound...@lineone.net :
>>
>>> Could you try running the lily source below which I think 
provides 
>a
>>> simple means to the same end and could be turned into a snippet? 
If 
>you
>>> then still think it would be useful to have this automated, I'll
>>> continue where I left off.
>>
>>If you want to automate this, it can now be easily done without
>>touching the C++ code, since Han-Wen's just added basic support for
>>scheme-programmable engravers.  It's a good candidate for a
>>documentation snippet, since it would be a gentle introduction to
>>rolling one's own engravers in scheme.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Neil
>>
>>
>
>I think this makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the feedback.
>
>- David.

Actually, the new scheme engraver functionality is so good that the 
code below seems to do the trick. Unfortunately, it doesn't demonstrate 
very much of what can be done with engravers, but I can turn it into a 
snippet if it would be useful.

- David.

 #(define ez-numbers-engraver (list
  (cons 'acknowledgers
   (list
 (cons 'note-head-interface
   (lambda (engraver grob source-engraver)
 (let* (
   (context (ly:translator-context engraver))
   (tonic (ly:context-property context 'tonic))
   (tonic-index (ly:pitch-notename tonic))
   (grob-pitch (ly:event-property (event-cause grob) 'pitch))
   (grob-index (ly:pitch-notename grob-pitch))
   (delta (modulo (- grob-index tonic-index) 7))
   (note-names
 (map
   (lambda (x)
 (list->string
   (list
 (integer->char
   (+ 1 delta (char->integer #\0))
  '(0 1 2 3 4 5 6
(ly:grob-set-property! grob 'note-names (list->vector note-
names)


\layout {
  \context {
\Voice
\consists \ez-numbers-engraver
  }
}

\relative c' {
  \easyHeadsOn
  c d e f g a b c
  \key a \major
  a, b c d e f g a
  \key b \dorian
  b, c d e f g a b
}



2009: A year in review - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/2009



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RE: How can I make chord symbols part of \markup or similar?

[James Lowe]

Neil,

Thanks, I did baulk at that answer slightly as I've never really delved into 
the Internals reference before...however after playing around with simple music 
properties on other functions based on the learning manual I think I can see 
how to do this.

Give a man fish and all that. ;)

have fun

James


-Original Message-
From: Neil Puttock [mailto:n.putt...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sun 10/01/2010 20:09
To: James Lowe
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: How can I make chord symbols part of \markup or similar?
 
2010/1/10 James Lowe :

> Is there a way I can do this without resorting to simply   b^"Cm"   which 
> does the same thing, but not as nicely as the chord font.

If you take a look at the Internals Reference entry for ChordName,
you'll see why it looks different from a normal markup (hint:
font-size and font-family).  Using this information, you can tweak
your markup so it looks the same as a chord name.

Regards,
Neil



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Re: How can I make chord symbols part of \markup or similar?

[Neil Puttock]

2010/1/10 James Lowe :

> Is there a way I can do this without resorting to simply   b^"Cm"   which 
> does the same thing, but not as nicely as the chord font.

If you take a look at the Internals Reference entry for ChordName,
you'll see why it looks different from a normal markup (hint:
font-size and font-family).  Using this information, you can tweak
your markup so it looks the same as a chord name.

Regards,
Neil


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Re: [frogs] Re: Numeric note heads for singers

[pound...@lineone.net]

>Original Message
>From: n.putt...@gmail.com
>Date: 10/01/2010 19:16 
>To: "pound...@lineone.net"
>Cc: "Ian Hulin", "fr...@lilynet.net", "lilypond-user@gnu.org", 
>Subj: Re: [frogs] Re: Numeric note heads for singers
>
>2010/1/10 pound...@lineone.net :
>
>> Could you try running the lily source below which I think provides 
a
>> simple means to the same end and could be turned into a snippet? If 
you
>> then still think it would be useful to have this automated, I'll
>> continue where I left off.
>
>If you want to automate this, it can now be easily done without
>touching the C++ code, since Han-Wen's just added basic support for
>scheme-programmable engravers.  It's a good candidate for a
>documentation snippet, since it would be a gentle introduction to
>rolling one's own engravers in scheme.
>
>Regards,
>Neil
>
>

I think this makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the feedback.

- David.



2009: A year in review - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/2009



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Re: [frogs] Re: Numeric note heads for singers

[Neil Puttock]

2010/1/10 pound...@lineone.net :

> Could you try running the lily source below which I think provides a
> simple means to the same end and could be turned into a snippet? If you
> then still think it would be useful to have this automated, I'll
> continue where I left off.

If you want to automate this, it can now be easily done without
touching the C++ code, since Han-Wen's just added basic support for
scheme-programmable engravers.  It's a good candidate for a
documentation snippet, since it would be a gentle introduction to
rolling one's own engravers in scheme.

Regards,
Neil


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Re: [frogs] Re: Numeric note heads for singers

[David Olson]

>From a teaching point of view:

the "mi" (diamond/lozenge) is unique,
so it doesn't need a number.

Would dice-like dots be better than numbers, I wonder.

the "fa" (triangle) is the main source of confusion.

In major, fa is both "1" (tonic") and "4" (subdom).

In minor/dorian, fa is both "3" and "6".

The "6" occurs rarely but when it does, it's a source of confusion because
it's raised (written as m6 but sung as M6).

Modulation--

There are only 2 songs (of over 550) in Sacred Harp that  modulate, and that
is between relative major and minor. This is appropriate to the skill level
of the singers.

If a composer went beyond that, he would be writing choir music, not Sacred
Harp music.

Sacred Harp singers are racoons who want to wash the apple as fast as they
can & pop it into their mouths, rather than hold it up next to a pear tree
and admire its abstract beauty in a new context.

i.e., when we get bored we increase the tempo, rather than modulate.

Teaching in fasola in general

"bootstraping" is becoming more prevalent.

Amateurs are discovering shape note as they surf WWW.  YouTube of singings
or Tim Eriksen.

They want to start a group but no one to learn from.

Also this music is spreading now to Poland.



As people develop teaching materials & put them on line, numbered shape note
heads would be useful, particularly for minor key.

Major key can be taught using childhood songs. Most childhood songs are in
major.

There are vanishingly few Dorian (raised sixth) childhood songs.

In Shape Note, the "social contract" is that the interval between shapes is
predictable -- always a half-step between the diamond and the adjacent
triangle.

But the "raised sixth" of Dorian violates this social contract.

Anyway, LilyPond is going to be a big asset as poets begin to develop
Polish-language lyrics for tunes, and just need to swap out the lyric
section of an .ly file to have singable material.

And we have a lot of "frog-in-the-pond" basslines

c1 | c4 a4 g4 g4 | c4 a4 g4 g8 a8 | c8 c8 g8 g8 c2 :||

There must be at least 50 songs like that.

David
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Re: [frogs] Re: Numeric note heads for singers

[pound...@lineone.net]

>Original Message
>From: c_soren...@byu.edu
>Date: 10/01/2010 15:39 
>To: "Ian Hulin"
>Cc: "pound...@lineone.net", "lilypond-u...@gnu.
org", "fr...@lilynet.net"
>Subj: Re: [frogs] Re: Numeric note heads for singers
>
>
>
>
>On 1/10/10 4:52 AM, "Ian Hulin"  wrote:
>
>> Hi Carl and everyone,
>> 
>> This looks a good idea in principle, but you've got to address what 
I call the
>> tonic-sol-fa/solfeggio problem.
>> You have to consider all of these (and I may have missed a few)
>> 1. What is your base-level tonic?
>> 2. what mode you are in (\major \minor \dorian etc.)?
>> 3. => what key signature do you currently assume?
>> 4. are you adopting \relative-type rules  - when do you decide on 
an octave
>> shift for the base tonic?
>>> 1. A good test for this would famously difficult singing range of 
the U.S.
>>> national anthem 
>> 5. How do you notate modulations when a piece is changing key, an f 
in the key
>> of c needs to become an f# to prepare for a modulation into g, but 
you aren't
>> quite ready to adopt the new key signature (and therefore reset the 
tonic)
>> yet?
>> 6.  
>> I suppose you could do some of this with mark-up stuff
>> 1. \key c  -> ^"tonic=c" or
>> 2.  
>> 3. \key c \major -> ^"tonic= c major"
>> 4. whatever \key is set as
>> 5. you could use the \relative type idea,  f4 c'4 notates as 4 1' 
on crotchet
>> note-heads 
>> 6. Add the possibility of accidental  f# or b flat being notated as 
4# or 7b
>> on note-heads, or 4^"#" 7^"b" (except use the flat-sign for b) 
>> Just some things to think about, HTH.
>
>Thanks for the thoughts.  These are all potential problems for 
complex
>music; I doubt any of them are problems for shape-note music.  Shape-
note
>music is used for hymn singing from the shape-note hymnbook; there 
aren't
>modulations in these songs[1].  Further, shape-notes are based on the 
major
>scale, rather than minor or dorian.  The whole idea of shape notes is 
that
>regardless of the key, the intervals between the various shapes are
>constant.  Now, this idea is not enforced in Sacred Harp singing, 
because
>there are only four shapes in sacred harp, but it is in Aiken heads, 
where
>there are seven different shapes.
>
>Bottom line, I don't think we need to worry about the difficult 
stuff, and I
>don't think we need to worry about the octavation.  I think 1-7 would 
be
>very helpful.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Carl
>
>[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_note

Currently with the shape note heads, the tonic is set by the choice of 
\key command. In \key c \major, c is the tonic. In \key d \dorian, d is 
the tonic. If you want it to work sol-fa style, then you would use \key 
c \major for both and it would work.

Sol-fa handles modulation by printing the old scale-degree in 
superscript before the new one. There isn't really enough room in the 
note-heads to do this and we would begin to confuse two different 
notation systems. I think that a proper sol-fa context would be needed 
to deal with the complexities of that particular notation system.

Carl - I'm happy to go ahead with this if you still want me to, but 
I'm a bit concerned now that no-one would use it and that the original 
requester was actually looking for something quite different.

Could you try running the lily source below which I think provides a 
simple means to the same end and could be turned into a snippet? If you 
then still think it would be useful to have this automated, I'll 
continue where I left off.

\version "2.13.11"

{ \easyHeadsOn
  \override Voice . NoteHead
 #'note-names = #(vector "1" "2" "3" "4" "5" "6" "7")
  \relative c' { c d e f g a b }

  \key a \major
  \override Voice . NoteHead
 #'note-names = #(vector "3" "4" "5" "6" "7" "1" "2")
  \relative c { a b c d e f g }
  \relative c' { a b c d e f g }
  \relative c'' { a b c d e f g }

  \key a \minor
  \relative c' { a b c d e f g }

  \key d \dorian
  \override Voice . NoteHead
 #'note-names = #(vector "7" "1" "2" "3" "4" "5" "6")
  \relative c' { d e f g a b c }
}



2009: A year in review - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/2009



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How can I make chord symbols part of \markup or similar?

[James Lowe]

Hello,

I have read the notation manual and the LSR and have experimented 
unsuccessfully in trying to explicitly set the Chord Symbols as a 'markup' to a 
given note.

For example

--

myvariable = { \chords {c4:m} }

\score { a b^\myvariable  c d }

--

The idea is to get the nice C minor (Cm) symbol above the b.

However I get

42:37: error: syntax error, unexpected MUSIC_IDENTIFIER

What I didn't want to have to do was have to set an entirely new 'voice/score' 
with the few chords explicitly set amongst  a slew or spacers or R1s if that 
make sense.

Is there a way I can do this without resorting to simply   b^"Cm"   which does 
the same thing, but not as nicely as the chord font.

James





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Re: 2 songs on one page

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Patrick (et al.),

> for people who haven't used the LSR (lilypond snippet repository) before,
> if you click on the pretty pictures of things you want to do,
> they turn into lilypond code for you to learn from:)  It's all automagic.

Your post brings up a good point: each LSR snippet page should explicitly say 
this.
It would make life easier for everyone.

Cheers,
Kieren.

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Re: "Ancient and modern from one source"

[Michael J. O'Donnell]

I have used parallel voices with notes in one and other information in
another quite a bit recently. It can get quite hairy to keep the voices
in sync when you edit durations. That isn't so hard with a relatively
sparse sequence, such as time signatures, but I think there are two
better methods:

1. Define a separate variable for each sequence of notes with a
consistent time signature. Since time changes are sparse, there aren't
too many of them. Concatenate them with different time signature
declarations for different scores.

2. Define a LilyPond function to produce the time signature. Use
different definitions of the function for different types of score.

#2 is my preferred method. Time signature is a musical issue, not just
a formatting issue, and I like to keep music together. Also, mensural
indications of time don't correspond precisely to modern ones, and you
might want the function to manipulate duration scaling factors or other
parameters as well as time signature itself. Many of these can probably
go into a parallel voice, but I'm not sure in advance. The special
function (e.g., I have \TempusPerfectumProlatioImperfectum and
\TempusPerfectumProlatioImperfectumAllaBreve in the song that I am
working on now) allows very general adjustments in the future, some of
which we might not think of at first. If I can get a grip on the scope
of variation within some reasonable range of mensural and modern
scores, I will define some sharable functions that do sensible things
based on a few user-settable parameters. The treatment of mensural
notation should probably make explicit use of the tactus somewhere, and
I suspect (don't see it in detail yet) that the function definition
method will be a good structure for incorporating an explicit
representation of tactus.

#1 has the virtue of requiring no programming effort. (But, the
functions don't have to be tricky---you can start out with a
case-by-case redefinition, and incorporate something more systematic
if/when it is available).

BTW, if anyone wanted to see my prototype files for generating mensural
and modern scores from a single note file, please let me know off line
(michael_odonn...@acm.org). The server on which I shared this material
blew a CPU fan, and will be off line for a week or so. I will make
other arrangements for sharing if someone is interested, but otherwise
I'll just wait for the new fan.

Cheers,

Mike O'Donnell

  


--

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 10:38:31 +0200
From: "Dmytro O. Redchuk" 
Subject: Re: "Ancient and modern from one source"
To: "C.Flothow" 
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Message-ID: <1263112711.4589.3.ca...@alot>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

У сб, 2010-01-09 у 21:58 +0100, C.Flothow пише:

  
  
This looks very promising as an answer to my first question. Once I
had figured out the correct combination of the different functions it
worked on the music level for the example. So I have to think of a
reasonable way to deal with the embedded time signatures / signature
fractions. Or is there already a corresponding function around which I
have missed?

  
  I would probably try to declare separate voice with time signatures
and write time signatures only in that voice.

And then to parallel it with real voices.

In this case you would need to change only that voice.

Or it's possible to declare two or three such a voices and use
appropriate of them.

Sorry! --- i've not tried this trick for this task --- sorry for the
(possible) noise :O)

  
  
Cheers 
Chris

  
  
  





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Re: 2 songs on one page

[Patrick Horgan]

Dmytro O. Redchuk wrote:

  У нд, 2010-01-10 у 13:49 +0100, Martin Tarenskeen пише:
  
  
Hi,

I want to put two (little) songs on one page, both complete with title, 
subtitle, and composer headers, but footer information - if any - only at 
the bottom of the page. But I can't figure out how to do this. Help ?

  
  
I believe this can help You?..

http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=310
  

This will go without saying for most, but for people who haven't used
the LSR (lilypond snippet repository) before, if you click on the
pretty pictures of things you want to do, they turn into lilypond code
for you to learn from:)  It's all automagic.

Patrick






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Re: [frogs] Re: Numeric note heads for singers

[Carl Sorensen]

On 1/10/10 4:52 AM, "Ian Hulin"  wrote:

> Hi Carl and everyone,
> 
> This looks a good idea in principle, but you've got to address what I call the
> tonic-sol-fa/solfeggio problem.
> You have to consider all of these (and I may have missed a few)
> 1. What is your base-level tonic?
> 2. what mode you are in (\major \minor \dorian etc.)?
> 3. => what key signature do you currently assume?
> 4. are you adopting \relative-type rules  - when do you decide on an octave
> shift for the base tonic?
>> 1. A good test for this would famously difficult singing range of the U.S.
>> national anthem 
> 5. How do you notate modulations when a piece is changing key, an f in the key
> of c needs to become an f# to prepare for a modulation into g, but you aren't
> quite ready to adopt the new key signature (and therefore reset the tonic)
> yet?
> 6.  
> I suppose you could do some of this with mark-up stuff
> 1. \key c  -> ^"tonic=c" or
> 2.  
> 3. \key c \major -> ^"tonic= c major"
> 4. whatever \key is set as
> 5. you could use the \relative type idea,  f4 c'4 notates as 4 1' on crotchet
> note-heads 
> 6. Add the possibility of accidental  f# or b flat being notated as 4# or 7b
> on note-heads, or 4^"#" 7^"b" (except use the flat-sign for b) 
> Just some things to think about, HTH.

Thanks for the thoughts.  These are all potential problems for complex
music; I doubt any of them are problems for shape-note music.  Shape-note
music is used for hymn singing from the shape-note hymnbook; there aren't
modulations in these songs[1].  Further, shape-notes are based on the major
scale, rather than minor or dorian.  The whole idea of shape notes is that
regardless of the key, the intervals between the various shapes are
constant.  Now, this idea is not enforced in Sacred Harp singing, because
there are only four shapes in sacred harp, but it is in Aiken heads, where
there are seven different shapes.

Bottom line, I don't think we need to worry about the difficult stuff, and I
don't think we need to worry about the octavation.  I think 1-7 would be
very helpful.

Thanks,

Carl

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_note



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[Fwd: [LAU] Linux Audio Conference 2010]

[rosea grammostola]

--- Begin Message ---

Dear Linux Audio developer, user, composer, musician, philosopher
and anyone else interested, you are invited to the...


 Linux Audio Conference 2010
 The conference about Open Source Software for music and audio

  May 1-4 2010

 Hogeschool voor de Kunsten Utrecht (HKU)
   Utrecht, The Netherlands


Registration is open, and so is the call for abstracts and papers.

More information can be found on the website:
http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2010

For previous editions, look here:
http://lac.linuxaudio.org

For concerts, music and workshops a submission system and protocol will
be available soon. In the meantime, ideas and announcements can be sent by
e-mail ("lac -at- linuxaudio -dot- org ")
or written on the wiki:
http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/lac2010


We hope to see you all in Utrecht !

Kind regards on behalf of the LAC team,
Marc Groenewegen, lecturer music software design @ HKU

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--- End Message ---
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Re: 2 songs on one page

[Dmytro O. Redchuk]

У нд, 2010-01-10 у 13:49 +0100, Martin Tarenskeen пише:
> Hi,
> 
> I want to put two (little) songs on one page, both complete with title, 
> subtitle, and composer headers, but footer information - if any - only at 
> the bottom of the page. But I can't figure out how to do this. Help ?

I believe this can help You?..

http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=310

-- 
  Dmytro O. Redchuk



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2 songs on one page

[Martin Tarenskeen]

Hi,

I want to put two (little) songs on one page, both complete with title, 
subtitle, and composer headers, but footer information - if any - only at 
the bottom of the page. But I can't figure out how to do this. Help ?


--

Martin




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Re: [frogs] Re: Numeric note heads for singers

[Ian Hulin]

Hi Carl and everyone,

This looks a good idea in principle, but you've got to address what I 
call the tonic-sol-fa/solfeggio problem.

You have to consider all of these (and I may have missed a few)

  1. What is your base-level tonic?
  2. what mode you are in (\major \minor \dorian etc.)?
  3. => what key signature do you currently assume?
  4. are you adopting \relative-type rules  - when do you decide on an
 octave shift for the base tonic?
1. A good test for this would famously difficult singing range
   of the U.S. national anthem
  5. How do you notate modulations when a piece is changing key, an f
 in the key of c needs to become an f# to prepare for a modulation
 into g, but you aren't quite ready to adopt the new key signature
 (and therefore reset the tonic) yet?

I suppose you could do some of this with mark-up stuff

  1. \key c  -> ^"tonic=c" or
  2. \key c \major -> ^"tonic= c major"
  3. whatever \key is set as
  4. you could use the \relative type idea,  f4 c'4 notates as 4 1' on
 crotchet note-heads
  5. Add the possibility of accidental  f# or b flat being notated as
 4# or 7b on note-heads, or 4^"#" 7^"b" (except use the flat-sign
 for b)

Just some things to think about, HTH.

Cheers,

Ian


On 10/01/10 02:05, Carl Sorensen wrote:



On 1/9/10 12:50 PM, "pound...@lineone.net"  wrote:

   


 

Original Message
From: da...@thirdculture.com
Date: 09/01/2010 19:01
To: "Carl Sorensen"
Cc: "fr...@lilynet.net",
"lilypond-user@gnu.org"
Subj: Re: [frogs] Re: Numeric note heads for singers


Carl, pounderd, and others,

I like the idea of "frogs" picking up an idea like this.

But, it's not real high priority, and in graphix-rendition terms it would be
difficult to inscribe a "4" into the triangular "pennant" shape of "fa"
because the triangle points in the opposite direction from the triangular
outline of "4".

Getting new singers to distinguish between tonic-triangle and fourth-triangle
is the main thing.

I guess there isn't any way of doing this right now, and that's a good answer
to my question.

Thanks,

David Olson
Culver City, CA


   

David,

Thanks for letting us know. It looks as though we all misunderstood the
request.
 

Would it be of use to have easy note heads that were circles but with 1
through 7 in them?  It seems to me that that's what the shape notes do.

David had an easy way of making that happen by setting the note head names
for a given key, and I think (hope) he's planning on doing the automatic
easy heads for scale degree.

Thanks,

Carl


---

Join the Frogs!


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Re: "Ancient and modern from one source"

[Dmytro O. Redchuk]

У сб, 2010-01-09 у 21:58 +0100, C.Flothow пише:
> This looks very promising as an answer to my first question. Once I
> had figured out the correct combination of the different functions it
> worked on the music level for the example. So I have to think of a
> reasonable way to deal with the embedded time signatures / signature
> fractions. Or is there already a corresponding function around which I
> have missed?
I would probably try to declare separate voice with time signatures
and write time signatures only in that voice.

And then to parallel it with real voices.

In this case you would need to change only that voice.

Or it's possible to declare two or three such a voices and use
appropriate of them.

Sorry! --- i've not tried this trick for this task --- sorry for the
(possible) noise :O)

> Cheers 
> Chris

-- 
  Dmytro O. Redchuk



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