[LUTE] Re: OP for lute songs?
I have heard [lu:v] before - in the TV series "Misfits"... The character is a white trash girl with a thick accent... I don't know exactly where this is coming from today, maybe a British native can explain. Am 18.02.2018 um 23:55 schrieb Dmitry Medvedev: A recording of English lute songs by Charles Daniels and Nigel North comes to mind. But, interestingly, there are certain differences between Daniels' pronunciation and David Crystal's theory. For example, 'love' is sung as [lu:v], and 'move' / 'remove' are sung close to modern pronunciation to preserve the rhyme. Crystal suggests exactly the opposite - 'love' would have sounded more or less as it sounds now, but 'move' would have sounded differently. I personally prefer how it sounds with [lu:v], but not sure if that's historically correct. Maybe there were differences between spoken and sung pronunciation. Dmitry On 2/18/2018 1:31 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote: Hi All, The latest luteshop blog treats a subject which many of us find difficult and interesting: http://luteshop.co.uk/its-not-just-what-you-say-its-how-you-say-it/ Best wishes, Martin --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: OP for lute songs?
A recording of English lute songs by Charles Daniels and Nigel North comes to mind. But, interestingly, there are certain differences between Daniels' pronunciation and David Crystal's theory. For example, 'love' is sung as [lu:v], and 'move' / 'remove' are sung close to modern pronunciation to preserve the rhyme. Crystal suggests exactly the opposite - 'love' would have sounded more or less as it sounds now, but 'move' would have sounded differently. I personally prefer how it sounds with [lu:v], but not sure if that's historically correct. Maybe there were differences between spoken and sung pronunciation. Dmitry On 2/18/2018 1:31 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote: Hi All, The latest luteshop blog treats a subject which many of us find difficult and interesting: http://luteshop.co.uk/its-not-just-what-you-say-its-how-you-say-it/ Best wishes, Martin --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: OP for lute songs?
At the 1982 LSA Seminar, the late Richard Jensen gave a presentation, "Pronunciation of Elizabethan English," with examples sung by Mary Beverley. A cassette tape is available for sale to LSA members (#T-6). But one of my future projects is to post an mp3 of this, and the other lectures given at the Rochester Michigan seminars, in the members section of the LSA website. Maybe sooner, rather than later, of this particular talk, now that an interest has been raised. -Anne -Anne Burns LSA Microfilms and Back Issues Join the Lute Society of America! http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/Membership On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 20:32:59 +0100, Tristan von Neumann wrote: Thanks Martin! I have been wondering when "OP" singers would appear on the stage :) I have a few questions: * are there any OP singers of Lute song? It seems if there were, you would have included a video... * how did Dowland perform his songs in for example Wolfenbüttel? Or did he just play solo lute? (this question to all) * as a native speaker of English (if you are), how does OP sound to your ear? For me as a German native I find OP much more down to earth but also more poetic. I agree with "posh" for BBC English. (I suspect Upper class English is Anglosaxon English with a French (Norman) accent. Compare "Oh Hello!" to "Heir hair lair!" :)) Am 18.02.2018 um 19:31 schrieb Martin Shepherd: > Hi All, > > The latest luteshop blog treats a subject which many of us find > difficult and interesting: > > http://luteshop.co.uk/its-not-just-what-you-say-its-how-you-say-it/ > > Best wishes, > > Martin > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: OP for lute songs?
On 18.02.2018 19:31, Martin Shepherd wrote: Hi All, The latest luteshop blog treats a subject which many of us find difficult and interesting: http://luteshop.co.uk/its-not-just-what-you-say-its-how-you-say-it/ This reminds me of Goethe's accent. Goethe was born in Frankfurt and obviously he had sort of a Frankfurt accent. There is the famous case of Grete's prayer: „Ach neige, Du Schmerzensreiche“ which doesn't rhyme at all in German. In Hessian dialect is does: „Ach neische, du Schmerzensreische“ Which led to the well known joke about his last words. It is reported that he said "Mehr Licht" (more light) Of course, he wanted to say „Määr licht hier so schläscht.“. Regarding German Lieder: I think it does not really matter that Schubert, Wolf, Mahler and others certainly had a heavy Viennese accent which probably would sound ridiculous on the stage. Wilhelm Müller was born in Dessau. Rellstab was born in Berlin. I would not recommend to sing "Leise flehen meine Lieder" with a Berlin accent, though. Rainer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: OP for lute songs?
Thanks Martin! I have been wondering when "OP" singers would appear on the stage :) I have a few questions: * are there any OP singers of Lute song? It seems if there were, you would have included a video... * how did Dowland perform his songs in for example Wolfenbüttel? Or did he just play solo lute? (this question to all) * as a native speaker of English (if you are), how does OP sound to your ear? For me as a German native I find OP much more down to earth but also more poetic. I agree with "posh" for BBC English. (I suspect Upper class English is Anglosaxon English with a French (Norman) accent. Compare "Oh Hello!" to "Heir hair lair!" :)) Am 18.02.2018 um 19:31 schrieb Martin Shepherd: Hi All, The latest luteshop blog treats a subject which many of us find difficult and interesting: http://luteshop.co.uk/its-not-just-what-you-say-its-how-you-say-it/ Best wishes, Martin --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: OP for lute songs?
I'm sorry, the IPA symbols seem to have gotten messed up! Rs were mostly pronounced as alveolar approximants (the "pirate" R) in Elizabethan London, as opposed to alveolar trills or alveolar taps. Jacob Johnson [uc?export=download&id=0B6_gM3BRE6ZrYVVZZU5QNmJqdDQ&revid=0B6_g M3BRE6ZraW9nQ2U4SGNwV0tYVWxobnNBVjBsZi9FNHhzPQ] Guitar/Lute [1]www.johnsonguitarstudio.com 469.237.0625. -- References 1. http://www.johnsonguitarstudio.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: OP for lute songs?
Thank you Martin! This is a subject in which I'm very interested. It's just terribly unfortunate that Ben and David Crystal decided to call it "Original Pronunciation"-- it smacks so much of "Authentic Performance" that I'd much rather hear "OP" called "historically informed pronunciation". I'd also note that the "r"s of Elizabethan London would not have been rolled, but would have been pronounced as the "pirate r", [ù], and not the trill or tap ([r] and [þ] respectively.) Regards, â Jacob Johnson [uc?export=download&id=0B6_gM3BRE6ZrYVVZZU5QNmJqdDQ&revid=0B6_g M3BRE6ZraW9nQ2U4SGNwV0tYVWxobnNBVjBsZi9FNHhzPQ] Guitar/Lute [1]www.johnsonguitarstudio.com 469.237.0625. On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Martin Shepherd <[2]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote: Hi All, The latest luteshop blog treats a subject which many of us find difficult and interesting: [3]http://luteshop.co.uk/its-not-just-what-you-say-its-how-you- say-it/ Best wishes, Martin --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. [4]https://www.avast.com/antivirus To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.johnsonguitarstudio.com/ 2. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk 3. http://luteshop.co.uk/its-not-just-what-you-say-its-how-you-say-it/ 4. https://www.avast.com/antivirus 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html