[LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?

2016-09-17 Thread David van Ooijen
   [1]http://www.historyextra.com/lingerie
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [3]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***

   --

References

   1. http://www.historyextra.com/lingerie
   2. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   3. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?

2016-09-17 Thread Alain
Roger de Piles, a 17th century French art historian marvelled that the 
Romans had reached a high degree of civilization and yet had failed to 
invent underwear. Hi did concede that they bathed a lot. But still...


Elizabeth I's stockings are preciously preserved in Hatfield where they 
can still be admired for a fee.



On 09/17/2016 11:22 AM, John Mardinly wrote:

An excellent parallel would be in The Countess of Pembroke, Mary
Sidney, being credited for authorship of Shakespeare's plays. Or is it
Pembrooke? In any case, in addition to shoes, I am sure they wore
underwear, but there is little (as little as possible, I hope) written
about that.

[1]http://www.marysidneysociety.org

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer
EMail: [2]john.mardi...@asu.edu
Cell: [3]408-921-3253 (does not work in TEM labs)
But don't call the labI won't be there!

On Sep 17, 2016, at 8:58 AM, Ron Andrico <[4]praelu...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

  Ron reads his own pages and retains the information.  The blog post
  Howard referenced has to do with Dowland's Marenzio connection and
  perhaps D's source of the Lachrimae motif.  See my earlier response.
  RA
__
  From: [5]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[6]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
behalf
  of David van Ooijen <[7]davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
  Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 6:46 AM
  Cc: Lute List
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?
 On 17 September 2016 at 08:37, howard posner
 <[1][8]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
   Ron himself has brought up the Marenzio connection on his page:
   [2][9]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__migna
rda.wordpress.com_2011_02_09_dowland-2D&d=CwIBAg&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv
2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m
=ilezhK7a1PS9JjNCYJ7-yCnxJKFiO7umf30VKnOu_Kg&s=Q0Lr9dQeVkgn9UJU-n1rw0oM
M5xWNb0Go1CAtMiKF04&e=
   marenzio-and-lachrimae
 Well, there you go then. But maybe Ron doesn't read his own pages.
 David
 --
  References
 1. [1][10]mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
 2.
  [2][11]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mignarda.
wordpress.com_2011_02_09_dowland-2Dmarenzio-2Dand-2Dlachr&d=CwIBAg&c=AG
bYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicP
M3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=ilezhK7a1PS9JjNCYJ7-yCnxJKFiO7umf30VKnOu_Kg&s=oGnBhi
wyxJGIXMGV9YzP55_IwCX1BF-3mMiLVVqLfRU&e=
  imae/
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [3][12]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dar
tmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=CwIBAg&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGq
yv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ
&m=ilezhK7a1PS9JjNCYJ7-yCnxJKFiO7umf30VKnOu_Kg&s=dkmhVL188Wd8vazn09iPw0
Y5lpmfr4f4Rr1IuYKmqK0&e=
  --
References
  1. [13]mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
  2.
[14]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mignarda.wordp
ress.com_2011_02_09_dowland-2Dmarenzio-2Dand-2Dlachrimae_&d=CwIBAg&c=AG
bYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicP
M3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=ilezhK7a1PS9JjNCYJ7-yCnxJKFiO7umf30VKnOu_Kg&s=vUO21a
P9kqeLKmfsIEiXEsqsyMjGaYoE0R9BDk5RCQQ&e=
  3.
[15]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=CwIBAg&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ej
iz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=il
ezhK7a1PS9JjNCYJ7-yCnxJKFiO7umf30VKnOu_Kg&s=dkmhVL188Wd8vazn09iPw0Y5lpm
fr4f4Rr1IuYKmqK0&e=

References

1. http://www.marysidneysociety.org/
2. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
3. tel:408-921-3253
4. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
5. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
6. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
7. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
8. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
9. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mignarda.wordpress.com_2011_02_09_dowland-2D&d=CwIBAg&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=ilezhK7a1PS9JjNCYJ7-yCnxJKFiO7umf30VKnOu_Kg&s=Q0Lr9dQeVkgn9UJU-n1rw0oMM5xWNb0Go1CAtMiKF04&e=
   10. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   11. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mignarda.wordpress.com_2011_02_09_dowland-2Dmarenzio-2Dand-2Dlachr&d=CwIBAg&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=ilezhK7a1PS9JjNCYJ7-yCnxJKFiO7umf30VKnOu_Kg&s=oGnBhiwyxJGIXMGV9YzP55_I

[LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?

2016-09-17 Thread John Mardinly
   An excellent parallel would be in The Countess of Pembroke, Mary
   Sidney, being credited for authorship of Shakespeare's plays. Or is it
   Pembrooke? In any case, in addition to shoes, I am sure they wore
   underwear, but there is little (as little as possible, I hope) written
   about that.

   [1]http://www.marysidneysociety.org

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer
   EMail: [2]john.mardi...@asu.edu
   Cell: [3]408-921-3253 (does not work in TEM labs)
   But don't call the labI won't be there!

   On Sep 17, 2016, at 8:58 AM, Ron Andrico <[4]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

 Ron reads his own pages and retains the information.  The blog post
 Howard referenced has to do with Dowland's Marenzio connection and
 perhaps D's source of the Lachrimae motif.  See my earlier response.
 RA
   __
 From: [5]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[6]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   behalf
 of David van Ooijen <[7]davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 6:46 AM
 Cc: Lute List
     Subject: [LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?
On 17 September 2016 at 08:37, howard posner
<[1][8]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
  Ron himself has brought up the Marenzio connection on his page:
  [2][9]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__migna
   rda.wordpress.com_2011_02_09_dowland-2D&d=CwIBAg&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv
   2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m
   =ilezhK7a1PS9JjNCYJ7-yCnxJKFiO7umf30VKnOu_Kg&s=Q0Lr9dQeVkgn9UJU-n1rw0oM
   M5xWNb0Go1CAtMiKF04&e=
  marenzio-and-lachrimae
Well, there you go then. But maybe Ron doesn't read his own pages.
David
--
 References
1. [1][10]mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
2.
 [2][11]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mignarda.
   wordpress.com_2011_02_09_dowland-2Dmarenzio-2Dand-2Dlachr&d=CwIBAg&c=AG
   bYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicP
   M3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=ilezhK7a1PS9JjNCYJ7-yCnxJKFiO7umf30VKnOu_Kg&s=oGnBhi
   wyxJGIXMGV9YzP55_IwCX1BF-3mMiLVVqLfRU&e=
 imae/
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [3][12]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dar
   tmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=CwIBAg&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGq
   yv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ
   &m=ilezhK7a1PS9JjNCYJ7-yCnxJKFiO7umf30VKnOu_Kg&s=dkmhVL188Wd8vazn09iPw0
   Y5lpmfr4f4Rr1IuYKmqK0&e=
 --
   References
 1. [13]mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
 2.
   [14]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mignarda.wordp
   ress.com_2011_02_09_dowland-2Dmarenzio-2Dand-2Dlachrimae_&d=CwIBAg&c=AG
   bYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicP
   M3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=ilezhK7a1PS9JjNCYJ7-yCnxJKFiO7umf30VKnOu_Kg&s=vUO21a
   P9kqeLKmfsIEiXEsqsyMjGaYoE0R9BDk5RCQQ&e=
 3.
   [15]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
   h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=CwIBAg&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ej
   iz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=il
   ezhK7a1PS9JjNCYJ7-yCnxJKFiO7umf30VKnOu_Kg&s=dkmhVL188Wd8vazn09iPw0Y5lpm
   fr4f4Rr1IuYKmqK0&e=

References

   1. http://www.marysidneysociety.org/
   2. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   3. tel:408-921-3253
   4. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   5. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   7. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   8. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   9. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mignarda.wordpress.com_2011_02_09_dowland-2D&d=CwIBAg&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=ilezhK7a1PS9JjNCYJ7-yCnxJKFiO7umf30VKnOu_Kg&s=Q0Lr9dQeVkgn9UJU-n1rw0oMM5xWNb0Go1CAtMiKF04&e=
  10. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
  11. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mignarda.wordpress.com_2011_02_09_dowland-2Dmarenzio-2Dand-2Dlachr&d=CwIBAg&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=ilezhK7a1PS9JjNCYJ7-yCnxJKFiO7umf30VKnOu_Kg&s=oGnBhiwyxJGIXMGV9YzP55_IwCX1BF-3mMiLVVqLfRU&e=
  12. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=CwIBAg&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=ilezhK7a1PS9JjNCYJ7-yCnxJKFiO7umf30VKnOu_Kg&s=dkmhVL188Wd8vazn09iPw0Y5lpmfr4f4Rr1IuYKmqK0&e=
  13. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
  14. 
https://urldefense.proofpoi

[LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?

2016-09-17 Thread Martin Shepherd

Dear Ron and All,

I wasn't really questioning attribution, because attribution is just 
what we have (though sometimes conflicting, sometimes absent).  I'm 
quite sure that "Lady Laiton's Almain" is a Dowland piece, also quite 
sure that Dowland composed and played lute solos.  What is uncertain is 
whether the tablature versions we have represent what he composed/played.


Dowland's borrowings are another matter entirely - and very 
interesting.  For example, Paul O'Dette has pointed out that one of 
Dowland's fancies borrows material from a keyboard setting of Felix 
namque by Thomas Tallis.  And of course "Would my conceit" in the first 
book of songs is a borrowing from/tribute to Marenzio.


Best wishes,

Martin

On 16/09/2016 22:30, Ron Andrico wrote:

Dear Martin and all:

Interesting point of view, and one that seems to be based upon the
theme that if the surviving evidence is scant, then we are obliged to
discount the premise.  In in thesis, David Tayler posed a similar
question of how much of the surviving music, mostly in manuscript form,
can be firmly attributed to Dowland, and the answer was not much.

Of course Dowland composed for the lute - and he sang and he most
likely wore shoes although there is no firm evidence of any of the
above.  But anyone who wades through the "collected works" will detect
a musical personality that emerges, mainly via signature riffs (such as
the Lachrimae motif) and cadential events.

Whether the actual notes written in ms  or printed in his books were
those Dowland meant to write, we'll never know for sure.  We do know
that all players took inspiration (or purloined tunes) from diverse
sources and I think the question might be stated, "where did Dowland
filch his source material for the surviving lute music that was written
down mostly by others?"

RA
  __

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
of Martin Shepherd 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 3:01 PM
To: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] composed for the lute?

Hi all,
You might find my latest blog interesting:
[1]http://luteshop.co.uk/was-dowland-a-composer-of-lute-music/
Best wishes,
Martin
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
[2]https://www.avast.com/antivirus
To get on or off this list see list information at
[3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. http://luteshop.co.uk/was-dowland-a-composer-of-lute-music/
2. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




[LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?

2016-09-17 Thread David van Ooijen
   QED

   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***
   On 17 September 2016 at 09:06, howard posner
   <[3]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:

 > On Sep 16, 2016, at 11:46 PM, David van Ooijen
 <[4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com> wrote:
 >
 > Well, there you go then. But maybe Ron doesn't read his own pages.
 It's easy to forget.   Just today, in writing program notes for a
 concert of Beethoven's last piano sonata, violin sonata and string
 quartet, I remembered that B. had remarked some time after the ninth
 symphony, perhaps five years before he died that he was just then
 learning how to compose.   I wanted to confirm that he made that
 remark.   My web search for "just learning to compose" took me
 straight to an essay about a B. quartet on the Los Angeles
 Philharmonic website, written by a you guessed it a me.

   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
   3. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   4. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



[LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?

2016-09-17 Thread howard posner

> On Sep 16, 2016, at 11:46 PM, David van Ooijen  
> wrote:
> 
> Well, there you go then. But maybe Ron doesn't read his own pages.

It’s easy to forget.  Just today, in writing program notes for a concert of 
Beethoven’s last piano sonata, violin sonata and string quartet, I remembered 
that B. had remarked some time after the ninth symphony, perhaps five years 
before he died that he was just then learning how to compose.  I wanted to 
confirm that he made that remark.  My web search for “just learning to compose” 
took me straight to an essay about a B. quartet on the Los Angeles Philharmonic 
website, written by — you guessed it — me.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?

2016-09-16 Thread David van Ooijen
   On 17 September 2016 at 08:37, howard posner
   <[1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:

 Ron himself has brought up the Marenzio connection on his page:
 [2]https://mignarda.wordpress.com/2011/02/09/dowland-
 marenzio-and-lachrimae

   Well, there you go then. But maybe Ron doesn't read his own pages.
   David

   --

References

   1. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   2. https://mignarda.wordpress.com/2011/02/09/dowland-marenzio-and-lachrimae/


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?

2016-09-16 Thread howard posner

> On Sep 16, 2016, at 11:21 PM, David van Ooijen  
> wrote:
> 
>  On Friday, 16 September 2016, Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
>   wrote:
> 
>>> , mainly via signature riffs (such as
>the Lachrimae motif) and cadential events<<
> 
>Although I certainly 'feel' Dowland's signature  in many of the solos
>   ascribed to him, I think the falling tears motif is not a good  example
>   as it was  a stock phrase in the word painting language of the Italian
>   madrigal (and much older, I believe, but  no quotes or sources, sorry),
>   whose most direct influence on Dowland  can be found in the madrigals
>   by  Marenzio, much admired by Dowland. And the cadential  doodles are
>   typical of all English Renaissance music for lute.

Ron himself has brought up the Marenzio connection on his page:

https://mignarda.wordpress.com/2011/02/09/dowland-marenzio-and-lachrimae/



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?

2016-09-16 Thread David van Ooijen
   On Friday, 16 September 2016, Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

   >>, mainly via signature riffs (such as
the Lachrimae motif) and cadential events<<

Although I certainly 'feel' Dowland's signature  in many of the solos
   ascribed to him, I think the falling tears motif is not a good  example
   as it was  a stock phrase in the word painting language of the Italian
   madrigal (and much older, I believe, but  no quotes or sources, sorry),
   whose most direct influence on Dowland  can be found in the madrigals
   by  Marenzio, much admired by Dowland. And the cadential  doodles are
   typical of all English Renaissance music for lute.

   Quite another approach to identify Dowland as the composer of the solos
   ascribed to him would be to look at fingerings. As a player myself, I
   find some lute composers return to favored chords, fitting their hands
   comfortably, one presumes. As extension to that I find lute music by
   some composer-players easy to play, my hands are similar to their, I
   guess, and music by other composer-players quite difficult, sprinkled
   with chords or stretches that are uncomfortable for my hands.

   David

   --

   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [3]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***

   --

References

   1. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   2. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   3. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?

2016-09-16 Thread Dan Winheld
Still a better bet than trying to play the collected lute solos of Buddy 
Bolden. I've heard that they're ALL spurious!



On 9/16/2016 1:30 PM, Ron Andrico wrote:

Dear Martin and all:

Interesting point of view, and one that seems to be based upon the
theme that if the surviving evidence is scant, then we are obliged to
discount the premise.  In in thesis, David Tayler posed a similar
question of how much of the surviving music, mostly in manuscript form,
can be firmly attributed to Dowland, and the answer was not much.

Of course Dowland composed for the lute - and he sang and he most
likely wore shoes although there is no firm evidence of any of the
above.  But anyone who wades through the "collected works" will detect
a musical personality that emerges, mainly via signature riffs (such as
the Lachrimae motif) and cadential events.

Whether the actual notes written in ms  or printed in his books were
those Dowland meant to write, we'll never know for sure.  We do know
that all players took inspiration (or purloined tunes) from diverse
sources and I think the question might be stated, "where did Dowland
filch his source material for the surviving lute music that was written
down mostly by others?"

RA
  __

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
of Martin Shepherd 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 3:01 PM
To: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] composed for the lute?

Hi all,
You might find my latest blog interesting:
[1]http://luteshop.co.uk/was-dowland-a-composer-of-lute-music/
Best wishes,
Martin
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
[2]https://www.avast.com/antivirus
To get on or off this list see list information at
[3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. http://luteshop.co.uk/was-dowland-a-composer-of-lute-music/
2. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html







[LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?

2016-09-16 Thread Nancy Carlin
All of this points up that they saw "copyright" completely differently 
than we do.  I found Tessa Murry's book on THomas Morley really helpful 
in explaining the nuances of ownership of music in Elizabethan England.

Nancy


Dear Martin and all:

Interesting point of view, and one that seems to be based upon the
theme that if the surviving evidence is scant, then we are obliged to
discount the premise.  In in thesis, David Tayler posed a similar
question of how much of the surviving music, mostly in manuscript form,
can be firmly attributed to Dowland, and the answer was not much.

Of course Dowland composed for the lute - and he sang and he most
likely wore shoes although there is no firm evidence of any of the
above.  But anyone who wades through the "collected works" will detect
a musical personality that emerges, mainly via signature riffs (such as
the Lachrimae motif) and cadential events.

Whether the actual notes written in ms  or printed in his books were
those Dowland meant to write, we'll never know for sure.  We do know
that all players took inspiration (or purloined tunes) from diverse
sources and I think the question might be stated, "where did Dowland
filch his source material for the surviving lute music that was written
down mostly by others?"

RA
  __

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
of Martin Shepherd 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 3:01 PM
To: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] composed for the lute?

Hi all,
You might find my latest blog interesting:
[1]http://luteshop.co.uk/was-dowland-a-composer-of-lute-music/
Best wishes,
Martin
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
[2]https://www.avast.com/antivirus
To get on or off this list see list information at
[3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. http://luteshop.co.uk/was-dowland-a-composer-of-lute-music/
2. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html





--
Nancy Carlin
Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA
http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org

PO Box 6499
Concord, CA 94524
USA
925 / 686-5800

www.groundsanddivisions.info
www.nancycarlinassociates.com




[LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?

2016-09-16 Thread John Mardinly
   I wonder what would Diana Poulton say about this?

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer
   EMail: [1]john.mardi...@asu.edu
   Cell: [2]408-921-3253 (does not work in TEM labs)
   But don't call the labI won't be there!

   On Sep 16, 2016, at 8:01 AM, Martin Shepherd <[3]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
   wrote:

   Hi all,
   You might find my latest blog interesting:
   [4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__luteshop.co.uk_w
   as-2Ddowland-2Da-2Dcomposer-2Dof-2Dlute-2Dmusic_&d=CwICaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK6
   7KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61yg
   SK-LNEQ&m=8nrvQlJPHNwP7kHI9dr4IVAg581I-uz6tga3N-1HsjI&s=LrnVb9jL_gyfqKz
   vneNa4rOwt8MMNIoe1dA2MxtoCf4&e=
   Best wishes,
   Martin
   ---
   This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
   [5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.avast.com_a
   ntivirus&d=CwICaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGv
   nWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=8nrvQlJPHNwP7kHI9dr4IVAg581I-u
   z6tga3N-1HsjI&s=ElhKkw0lJsnyGJr_p6TU_U8lnnKy0Ln21iFXj-ybQ7U&e=
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=CwICaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Eji
   z41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=8nr
   vQlJPHNwP7kHI9dr4IVAg581I-uz6tga3N-1HsjI&s=ptyTFF1_LuTkv025nhHllFbA0s3N
   KJ9JT7nUbq-YeRk&e=

References

   1. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   2. tel:408-921-3253
   3. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk
   4. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__luteshop.co.uk_was-2Ddowland-2Da-2Dcomposer-2Dof-2Dlute-2Dmusic_&d=CwICaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=8nrvQlJPHNwP7kHI9dr4IVAg581I-uz6tga3N-1HsjI&s=LrnVb9jL_gyfqKzvneNa4rOwt8MMNIoe1dA2MxtoCf4&e=
   5. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.avast.com_antivirus&d=CwICaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=8nrvQlJPHNwP7kHI9dr4IVAg581I-uz6tga3N-1HsjI&s=ElhKkw0lJsnyGJr_p6TU_U8lnnKy0Ln21iFXj-ybQ7U&e=
   6. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=CwICaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=8nrvQlJPHNwP7kHI9dr4IVAg581I-uz6tga3N-1HsjI&s=ptyTFF1_LuTkv025nhHllFbA0s3NKJ9JT7nUbq-YeRk&e=



[LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?

2016-09-16 Thread Matthew Daillie

On 16/09/2016 17:01, Martin Shepherd wrote:

Hi all,

You might find my latest blog interesting:

http://luteshop.co.uk/was-dowland-a-composer-of-lute-music/

Best wishes,

Martin 


Hi Martin,

Stimulating and informative as usual.

Best,

Matthew



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?

2016-09-16 Thread Joel Spears


> On Sep 16, 2016, at 10:01 AM, Martin Shepherd  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> You might find my latest blog interesting:
> 
> http://luteshop.co.uk/was-dowland-a-composer-of-lute-music/
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html