Re: [M100] Packet radio like it's 1987

[Mike Eppler]

I ran a packet station on the Iditarod Race start line in 1987. the 
equipment was a Yaesu FT221R transceiver a MFJ 1270 TNC and a Model 100. 
We were the backup for the starting timer. Great Fun and a Little cold. 
The rig was a red Toyota Land Cruiser, and we parked on Knik Lake. 73's 
to all Mike, KL7ILA


On 4/19/2021 10:38, Alex ... wrote:

Douglas,
You make a very good point. I'd never even considered that the UART 
might get in the way. After a look over the datasheets for the chip, 
there doesn't seem to be any way to disable the stop bit functionality 
and turn it into a dumb shift register.


Now I'm wondering if the old modem chip could still be utilized in a 
hybrid approach: Bypass the UART and read/write bits directly to the 
modem via the 8085's SID/SOD lines? It could be less work for the CPU 
this way, since the modem can deal with the waveforms and frequencies 
in hardware. That's another hardware mod, and still leaves the timer 
problem.


Regarding hardware mods to the M102, the way I see it is: When am I 
going to use this modem on a telephone line ever? Using the RIT is a 
good idea though. 🙂


Jeff,
If you want to use the Tandy as a terminal with an external TNC like 
I've been doing the past week, you just hook it to the serial port 
with the necessary adapters and use TELCOM to type commands to the 
TNC. Make sure you turn on flow control or your TNC will probably 
outrun the old model T. So far I've used it to send Winlink email 
through a local VHF RMS node and made a couple of contacts on HF.


On Sat, Apr 17, 2021 at 8:19 PM Douglas Quagliana 
mailto:dquagli...@gmail.com>> wrote:


>How much of the 8085's time will be left to do anything useful at
all with the data with it essentially bit-banging the waveforms
like that?

Probably not much CPU time will be left while receiving.  But
packet radio is half-duplex on HF and VHF.  If you are connecting
to a packet radio BBS or having a keyboard to keyboard chat with
another human, there isn't much that the CPU needs to do except
display the received data and look for keys being pressed on the
keyboard.

> With the modem and UART hardware doing the hard layer 1 work,
the CPU should have plenty of cycles to spare to deal with the bit
stuffing, encoding, CRC checks, AX25 packet structure, etc.

Can the Model 100's modem/UART hardware be configured to just
demodulate bits synchronously?  The way the modem/UART would be
used over the phone lines would be asynchronously (the "A" in
"UART"), where every 7 (or 8) data bits are placed in between a
start bit and a stop bit, and maybe with a parity bit at the end
of the character being sent.  "8N1" is really a start bit, eight
data bits, no parity bit and one stop bit. These ten bits for a
character are sent, then there could be a pause for a small
fraction of a second and then the start bit for the next character
is sent.  That's "asynchronous" serial.

However, AX.25 packet radio doesn't work that way. It's
synchronous. AX.25 uses an HDLC flag byte (0x7E) as a "start of
data frame" indicator and then a continuous stream of bits (all
the data bits for the whole packet one after another) with zero
bits stuffed in after five contiguous one bits and then another
HDLC flag for the end of the packet.  In AX.25 there are no start
bits, no stop bits and no parity bits.  If there is a way to tell
the Model 100's modem/UART "Hey just send me straight bits for
what you see, synchronously, not asynchronously" then maybe we can
receive 300 baud AX.25 packet radio but if the UART is expecting
start/stop/parity bits, then the modem/UART won't be able to
receive 300 baud AX.25 packet on HF.

You could still use the internal modem/UART to send/receive ASCII
Bell 103, start/data/stop/parity, but I don't know if anyone still
uses that on HF anymore. Probably, I just don't know. W1AW used to
send ASCII bulletins, but they replaced ASCII and AMTOR with PSK31
and MFSK16 back in 2009.  If you go this route, I would just
adjust RIT and XIT on the radio so that the tones are what the
modem expects for ORIG and ANSWER so that you don't need to make
hardware mods to the M100.

On the other hand, the cassette port data is similar to AX.25
packet in that there is a sync/header byte and there (usually)
aren't start/stop/parity bits, just straight bits. (Some NECs
write two stop bits after the data byte.) The challenge is that
the cassette port/RIM instruction only gives you "signal is above
zero" or "signal is below zero" so all you can get is above/below
and the timing information on the zero crossings of the waveforms.
It's not really an analog-to-digital converter except for that one
bit. See Figure 3-9 "Demodulation Circuit of Cassette Interface"
on page 17 of the Model 100 Technical Reference Manual.  But, the
 

[M100] Fun with Super Capacitor 5,5 V / 1F on NEC PC-8201A

[ExPLIT | Pawel Radomychelski]

Hello collegues!

as some forum collegues told me, it is a good idea to use a
Supercapacitor (5,5V / 1F) instead of new NiMH memory battery.
I soldered this cap instead the battery, let it "charge" couple of
minutes and tried after couple of hours to switch on.
Gues what? Now my NEC PC-8210A can be switched on even without any
Power Source. No main batteries, no ac adapter.

Of course i'm pretty sure it wouldn't last long, but its funny.
I have no idea, how "healthy" such Supercap is for the Hardware made in
1983

I will be thankfull for your stories and advices here...

Thanks

-- 
Kind regards / 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen

ExPLIT IT Solutions
Pawel Radomychelski

Re: [M100] Help transferring files between LaddieAlpha and Teeny

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 5:41 PM Dave Christensen  wrote:

> I can transfer a few files from the directory I am running Laddiealpha
> from to the laptop using Teeny but most of the files give me a “FF” error
> when doing the load command.  It looks like the only files that will
> transfer are old files (200x).  Files with a current date downloaded and
> copied by Windows 10 won’t transfer.  The file names are correct in the
> LaddieAlpha like ALIEN.BA and I can see them in the directory using a DOS
> DIR command and there are no weird suffixes on the file.  It is just that
> Laddie Alpha can’t see these files when requested to download them.
>
>
>
> I have a REX# installed.  Any ideas or other ways to send files down?  It
> looks to me like an incompatibility of LaddieAlpha and newly created files
> on the PC.  I can download a file created in 2017 but not 2021.
>
>
>

I will have to take a look. But I can pretty much guarantee there is no
laddiealpha incompatibility based on file age.

More likely would be a permissions, identity or similar issue for recently
created files that just happens to coincide with recent files.

-- John.

[M100] Help transferring files between LaddieAlpha and Teeny

[Dave Christensen]

I can transfer a few files from the directory I am running Laddiealpha from
to the laptop using Teeny but most of the files give me a "FF" error when
doing the load command.  It looks like the only files that will transfer are
old files (200x).  Files with a current date downloaded and copied by
Windows 10 won't transfer.  The file names are correct in the LaddieAlpha
like ALIEN.BA and I can see them in the directory using a DOS DIR command
and there are no weird suffixes on the file.  It is just that Laddie Alpha
can't see these files when requested to download them.

 

I have a REX# installed.  Any ideas or other ways to send files down?  It
looks to me like an incompatibility of LaddieAlpha and newly created files
on the PC.  I can download a file created in 2017 but not 2021.

 

Thanks

 

Re: [M100] Fun with Super Capacitor 5,5 V / 1F on NEC PC-8201A

[ExPLIT | Pawel Radomychelski]

thanks for the info!

-- 
Kind regards / 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen

ExPLIT IT Solutions
Pawel Radomychelski



-Original Message-
From: Brian K. White 
Reply-To: m...@bitchin100.com
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] Fun with Super Capacitor 5,5 V / 1F on NEC PC-8201A
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 20:29:05 -0400

On 4/21/21 8:01 PM, ExPLIT | Pawel Radomychelski wrote:
> Hello collegues!
> 
> as some forum collegues told me, it is a good idea to use a 
> Supercapacitor (5,5V / 1F) instead of new NiMH memory battery.
> I soldered this cap instead the battery, let it "charge" couple of 
> minutes and tried after couple of hours to switch on.
> Gues what? Now my NEC PC-8210A can be switched on even without any
> Power 
> Source. No main batteries, no ac adapter.
> 
> Of course i'm pretty sure it wouldn't last long, but its funny.
> I have no idea, how "healthy" such Supercap is for the Hardware made
> in 
> 1983
> 
> I will be thankfull for your stories and advices here...


Unless you found a solid state supercap, then supercaps leak and
corrode 
just like regular caps and batteries. There are only disadvantages to 
using a cap in place of the battery in this case.

Re: [M100] Fun with Super Capacitor 5,5 V / 1F on NEC PC-8201A

[Brian K. White]

On 4/21/21 8:01 PM, ExPLIT | Pawel Radomychelski wrote:

Hello collegues!

as some forum collegues told me, it is a good idea to use a 
Supercapacitor (5,5V / 1F) instead of new NiMH memory battery.
I soldered this cap instead the battery, let it "charge" couple of 
minutes and tried after couple of hours to switch on.
Gues what? Now my NEC PC-8210A can be switched on even without any Power 
Source. No main batteries, no ac adapter.


Of course i'm pretty sure it wouldn't last long, but its funny.
I have no idea, how "healthy" such Supercap is for the Hardware made in 
1983


I will be thankfull for your stories and advices here...



Unless you found a solid state supercap, then supercaps leak and corrode 
just like regular caps and batteries. There are only disadvantages to 
using a cap in place of the battery in this case.


--
bkw

Re: [M100] Fun with Super Capacitor 5,5 V / 1F on NEC PC-8201A

[Justin Poirier]

I put a 1F supercap in my 102 several years ago. No complaints! It does 
not have the capacity of chemical storage, but it charges over the 
course of a few hours, holds its charge beautifully, and for brief power 
outages or the time to change batteries, it works great. It holds my 32k 
machine for 5 or 6 hours, not for days and days like a real battery does.


--Justin

On 4/21/21 8:08 PM, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
Personally I think the rechargeable battery design is one of the model 
t's best design decisions and I wouldn't switch to a supercap. It's 
just less forgiving about managing the main battery and therefore 
keeping the RAM file system intact.


But, interested to hear how you like it over the weeks and months. 
Hopefully it works out.


-- John.

Re: [M100] Fun with Super Capacitor 5,5 V / 1F on NEC PC-8201A

[ExPLIT | Pawel Radomychelski]

Thanks for the info, John.

I try to find a solution for keeping my PC-8201A intact in the next
years. Of course, 3,6V NiMH Battery is much better comparing to
original 3,6V NiCd one.
But even NiMH can leak, and i want to minimise risk of mainboard
failure.
I will see how it performs in a couple of days...

-- 
Kind regards / 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen

ExPLIT IT Solutions
Pawel Radomychelski



-Original Message-
From: John R. Hogerhuis 
Reply-To: m...@bitchin100.com
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] Fun with Super Capacitor 5,5 V / 1F on NEC PC-8201A
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 17:08:19 -0700

Personally I think the rechargeable battery design is one of the model
t's best design decisions and I wouldn't switch to a supercap. It's
just less forgiving about managing the main battery and therefore
keeping the RAM file system intact.

But, interested to hear how you like it over the weeks and months.
Hopefully it works out. 

-- John. 

Re: [M100] Fun with Super Capacitor 5,5 V / 1F on NEC PC-8201A

[John R. Hogerhuis]

Personally I think the rechargeable battery design is one of the model t's
best design decisions and I wouldn't switch to a supercap. It's just less
forgiving about managing the main battery and therefore keeping the RAM
file system intact.

But, interested to hear how you like it over the weeks and months.
Hopefully it works out.

-- John.

Re: [M100] debugging serial, DB9 "tap"

[John R. Hogerhuis]

I agree.

Though smoothing out transmit probably matters less, practically, than
smoothing out receive.  Given the model t's small receive queue and timing
sensitivity of tsdos.

Receivers of our transmitted data in the real world are less sensitive to
delays and burstiness.

The only other consideration is smoothing out the the distribution of
throttle itself might solve other uncovered I/O emulation fidelity issues.

But I'm all for solving the problem at hand over hypothetical ones that may
never be encountered :-)

-- John.

Re: [M100] debugging serial, DB9 "tap"

[Ken Pettit]

On 4/18/21 9:32 PM, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:


To make serial comms more predictable / smoother to the real world 
would require distributing the delay time more evenly.




Yeah, I think maybe this is what is needed ... a more accurate emulation 
of the timing of the serial port relative to an actual M100 running at 
whatever emulation speed is selected.  Then perhaps the 50ms sleep 
period wouldn't even need to be changed.  The emulation would execute a 
bunch of instructions and load the serial TX buffer with multiple 
characters and the serial routines could dole them out at a constant 
rate.  The only question then would be the timing of any RX characters.  
That may still require a shorter sleep.


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Ken

Re: [M100] M100 case colour...

[Jeffrey Birt]

I would also guess there is not one single correct color but a small range. 
Typically, the raw plastic used will be produced by different companies at 
different times to a specification. There will be variations even lot to lot 
from the same manufacturer. 

 

Jeff Birt

 

 

From: M100  On Behalf Of 
jonathan.y...@telia.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 12:14 PM
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] M100 case colour...

 

Probably one could open one up, sand the plastic (on the inside) to reveal the 
original colour, and then take it to a paint store that can read colors.  They 
need a big enough spot to measure, but then you can get an NCS code that should 
match.  We've done that with paint samples for our house, and even played 
around with some 'classic' colours done with linseed oil paint and classic 
pigments.  Once we had what we wanted with the traditional paint, we took it in 
and had modern latex-based paint mixed up to match.  So it is possible, just 
someone has to do the legwork, but I guess that is the question asked by the 
original post.

 

I've heard it is done with cars being painted too.

 

Jonathan

Ursprungligt meddelande
Från : jesslafl...@gmail.com  
Datum : 2021-04-21 - 18:44 (CEST)
Till : m...@bitchin100.com  
Ämne : Re: [M100] M100 case colour...

I think it's still possible.  

Both of my M100s are very "pale" and seem to match the photos in the magazines 
I have rather well! 

In addition, this knowledge may have been known, just like the Apple II was 
determined without resorting to colour analysis of 40 year old paint. 

Was just hoping someone here may already know, inside info or the like. 

 

Ultimately, if I don't get a satisfactory answer, I'll do an analysis myself 
and try to compensate for bromine yellowing... 

 

On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 12:01 PM Micah Cowan < mi...@addictivecode.org 
mailto:mi...@addictivecode.org');return%20false;> > 
wrote: 

Is it even possible to know that at this point? 

The Apple II is painted metal... the M100 is an unpainted plastic whose shade 
darkens/yellows over time. Even if you were to color match the original, it 
wouldn't color match with anyone's M100 today, I'd think. 

 

-mjc 

 

On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 2:17 PM Jesse Lafleur < jesslafl...@gmail.com 
mailto:jesslafl...@gmail.com');return%20false;> > 
wrote: 

Anyone have any idea the colour of the M100? 

Apple II colour has been well established and figured out, but I am wondering 
if anyone has done the detective work to determine a modern match for the M100? 

 

-Jesse 

 

 

Re: [M100] M100 case colour...

[jonathan.y...@telia.com]

Probably one could open one up, sand the plastic (on the inside) to reveal the 
original colour, and then take it to a paint store that can read colors.  They 
need a big enough spot to measure, but then you can get an NCS code that should 
match.  We've done that with paint samples for our house, and even played 
around with some 'classic' colours done with linseed oil paint and classic 
pigments.  Once we had what we wanted with the traditional paint, we took it in 
and had modern latex-based paint mixed up to match.  So it is possible, just 
someone has to do the legwork, but I guess that is the question asked by the 
original post.
I've heard it is done with cars being painted too.
Jonathan
Ursprungligt meddelande
Från : jesslafl...@gmail.com
Datum : 2021-04-21 - 18:44 (CEST)
Till : m...@bitchin100.com
Ämne : Re: [M100] M100 case colour...
 I think it's still possible. 
 
  Both of my M100s are very "pale" and seem to match the photos in the 
magazines I have rather well!
 
 
  In addition, this knowledge may have been known, just like the Apple II was 
determined without resorting to colour analysis of 40 year old paint.
 
 
  Was just hoping someone here may already know, inside info or the like.
 
 
  
 
 
  Ultimately, if I don't get a satisfactory answer, I'll do an analysis myself 
and try to compensate for bromine yellowing...
 
 
  On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 12:01 PM Micah Cowan <
  mi...@addictivecode.org> wrote:
  
 
 
  
   Is it even possible to know that at this point?
   
The Apple II is painted metal... the M100 is an unpainted plastic whose 
shade darkens/yellows over time. Even if you were to color match the original, 
it wouldn't color match with anyone's M100 today, I'd think.
   
   

   
   
-mjc
   
  
  
  
   
On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 2:17 PM Jesse Lafleur <
jesslafl...@gmail.com> wrote:

   
   

 Anyone have any idea the colour of the M100?
 
  Apple II colour has been well established and figured out, but I am 
wondering if anyone has done the detective work to determine a modern match for 
the M100?
 
 
  
 
 
  
   -Jesse
  
 

   
  
 

Re: [M100] M100 case colour...

[Jesse Lafleur]

I think it's still possible.
Both of my M100s are very "pale" and seem to match the photos in the
magazines I have rather well!
In addition, this knowledge may have been known, just like the Apple II was
determined without resorting to colour analysis of 40 year old paint.
Was just hoping someone here may already know, inside info or the like.

Ultimately, if I don't get a satisfactory answer, I'll do an analysis
myself and try to compensate for bromine yellowing...

On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 12:01 PM Micah Cowan 
wrote:

> Is it even possible to know that at this point?
> The Apple II is painted metal... the M100 is an unpainted plastic whose
> shade darkens/yellows over time. Even if you were to color match the
> original, it wouldn't color match with anyone's M100 today, I'd think.
>
> -mjc
>
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 2:17 PM Jesse Lafleur 
> wrote:
>
>> Anyone have any idea the colour of the M100?
>> Apple II colour has been well established and figured out, but I am
>> wondering if anyone has done the detective work to determine a modern match
>> for the M100?
>>
>> -Jesse
>>
>

Re: [M100] M100 case colour...

[Micah Cowan]

Is it even possible to know that at this point?
The Apple II is painted metal... the M100 is an unpainted plastic whose
shade darkens/yellows over time. Even if you were to color match the
original, it wouldn't color match with anyone's M100 today, I'd think.

-mjc

On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 2:17 PM Jesse Lafleur  wrote:

> Anyone have any idea the colour of the M100?
> Apple II colour has been well established and figured out, but I am
> wondering if anyone has done the detective work to determine a modern match
> for the M100?
>
> -Jesse
>