Re: [M100] New article on the Bitchin100 wiki... peeking Option ROM Space

[MikeS]

Great article, especially for learning different techniques.

A few years back I needed some extra RAM for a small database so I cobbled 
together a poor man's REX; just a 32K RAM chip piggybacked on the system ROM 
with a couple of flying leads for /WE, /CE etc.

Functionally it's a clone of EME's ExtRAM, compatible with all its tools and 
utilities to load/save/dump/swap/etc. memory, load & save files and, yes, PEEK 
and POKE the OptROM memory space.

As the database grew I started on a 4MB bank switched version along the lines 
of the XR4 but then Steve came out with the 4MB CP/M device; in the end I 
finally moved it to a PC anyway ;-)

m


  - Original Message - 
  From: John R. Hogerhuis 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2022 3:37 AM
  Subject: [M100] New article on the Bitchin100 wiki... peeking Option ROM Space


  I wrote up an article on PEEKing an Option ROM from a BASIC program based on 
a question that came up on Facebook.


  Well, really most of the article is about how to embed ML subroutines as 
strings in your program.


  
https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=Peeking_the_Option_ROM_From_a_BASIC_Program



  -- John.

Re: [M100] Backpack drives

[Philippe Van Lieu]

Awesome! Thanks for enabling the "notify when back in stock" button as well.

I also imagine it's tough to work out how many to make too, especially when 
there's also a bunch of silent fans like me who just like to lurk and know a 
good deal when we see it... so it's all the more appreciated that you're able 
to keep up with demand. Thank you very much! :D



On 12/22/2022 1:04 PM, m100-requ...@lists.bitchin100.com wrote:
I'm working on finishing up some more now. It was rather hard to guess 
at how many of which adapters folks might want but we are building 
more of the ones low in stock. I'm setting up each of the options as 
separate stock items so you can tell if the option you selected is in 
stock or not. (For example, I won't have more extra CR1025 batteries 
until next week.) I also just enabled the 'Notify when back in stock' 
button.

Jeff Birt

Re: [M100] DETOKE100.exe

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 2:40 PM MikeS  wrote:

> Looks like you've been looking since 2019:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/m100@lists.bitchin100.com/msg08871.html
>
> The answer is in the next message (SIG Lib08); of course it's probably not
> as good as yours...
>
>

Hmm, thanks. I had a feeling there would be something in the M100SIG.  It's
funny, I have a way older message,  of me writing a detokenizer, but it was
in gforth and is mixed into an experimental TPDD client. I spent a few
minutes trying to run that but the setup would have been more work than
just rewriting a bare detokenizer.

Anyway, now I have my own with its own bugs :-) . Hopefully won't forget it
this time. I doubt it's better than Nuge's since mine was pretty quick and
dirty.

-- John.

>

Re: [M100] DETOKE100.exe

[MikeS]

Looks like you've been looking since 2019:
https://www.mail-archive.com/m100@lists.bitchin100.com/msg08871.html

The answer is in the next message (SIG Lib08); of course it's probably not as 
good as yours...

m
  - Original Message - 
  From: John R. Hogerhuis 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2022 3:50 PM
  Subject: [M100] DETOKE100.exe


  I wrote a 100/102 detokenizer last night because I needed one and couldn't 
find one. Probably I didn't look hard enough, I'm sure there are others!


  The emulators can do the job generally, but they would only pop an error and 
give up. DETOKE100 doesn't care, it just decodes :-)


  You can download from my personal library at Club100. I tested it on Windows 
and Linux.


  
http://club100.org/memfiles/index.php?&direction=0&order=&directory=John%20Hogerhuis/Utilities



  If you find a file it doesn't work on or you need a feature added, let me 
know.


  -- John.

Re: [M100] DETOKE100.exe

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 1:11 PM Jeff Gonzales  wrote:

> DETOKE100 sounds like a program to stop smoking marijuana. lol.
>
>
My programs never smoked marijuana! A couple from back in the day might
have experimented with psychedelics.

-- John.

>

Re: [M100] DETOKE100.exe

[Jeff Gonzales]

DETOKE100 sounds like a program to stop smoking marijuana. lol.

On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 3:51 PM John R. Hogerhuis  wrote:

> I wrote a 100/102 detokenizer last night because I needed one and couldn't
> find one. Probably I didn't look hard enough, I'm sure there are others!
>
> The emulators can do the job generally, but they would only pop an error
> and give up. DETOKE100 doesn't care, it just decodes :-)
>
> You can download from my personal library at Club100. I tested it on
> Windows and Linux.
>
>
> http://club100.org/memfiles/index.php?&direction=0&order=&directory=John%20Hogerhuis/Utilities
>
> If you find a file it doesn't work on or you need a feature added, let me
> know.
>
> -- John.
>

Re: [M100] New article on the Bitchin100 wiki... peeking Option ROM Space

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 12:44 PM Chris Kmiec  wrote:

> John,
>
> A great write up, and i fully support an idea of a book with a series of
> these!
>
>
>>
Thanks... hopefully this will give members a flavor for the type of stuff I
want to include. If anyone has topics or ideas in this vein they'd like to
see included, let me know.

-- John.

[M100] DETOKE100.exe

[John R. Hogerhuis]

I wrote a 100/102 detokenizer last night because I needed one and couldn't
find one. Probably I didn't look hard enough, I'm sure there are others!

The emulators can do the job generally, but they would only pop an error
and give up. DETOKE100 doesn't care, it just decodes :-)

You can download from my personal library at Club100. I tested it on
Windows and Linux.

http://club100.org/memfiles/index.php?&direction=0&order=&directory=John%20Hogerhuis/Utilities

If you find a file it doesn't work on or you need a feature added, let me
know.

-- John.

Re: [M100] New article on the Bitchin100 wiki... peeking Option ROM Space

[Chris Kmiec]

John,

A great write up, and i fully support an idea of a book with a series of
these!


On Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 2:49 PM John R. Hogerhuis  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 11:23 AM Ken Pettit  wrote:
>
>> Excellent write-up John!  Almost inspires me to do some similar
>> write-ups for doing ML graphics on the M100!
>>
>> Ken
>>
>
>>
>>
>
>
> Thanks Ken!
>
> I intend to do several more of these articles with the idea of editing
> them into a book.
>
> -- John.
>

Re: [M100] New article on the Bitchin100 wiki... peeking Option ROM Space

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 11:23 AM Ken Pettit  wrote:

> Excellent write-up John!  Almost inspires me to do some similar
> write-ups for doing ML graphics on the M100!
>
> Ken
>

>
>


Thanks Ken!

I intend to do several more of these articles with the idea of editing them
into a book.

-- John.

Re: [M100] New article on the Bitchin100 wiki... peeking Option ROM Space

[Ken Pettit]

Excellent write-up John!  Almost inspires me to do some similar 
write-ups for doing ML graphics on the M100!


Ken

On 12/22/22 12:37 AM, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
I wrote up an article on PEEKing an Option ROM from a BASIC program 
based on a question that came up on Facebook.


Well, really most of the article is about how to embed ML subroutines 
as strings in your program.


https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=Peeking_the_Option_ROM_From_a_BASIC_Program

-- John.

Re: [M100] Model 200 issues with Serial Wi-Fi Adapter

[B 9]

Also, if you want to prevent the lockups, you could loop back DTR to DSR as
described earlier in this thread.

—b9

On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 10:10 AM B 9  wrote:

> Thanks for doing that direct test from your Tandy 200 to 102. That
> confirms that the Tandy 200's TELCOM program (and possibly anything that
> calls the ROM to read the serial port) is different. I hadn't known that
> before. I think it must be a bug because even a program that uses DSR to
> find out whether another device is connected shouldn't hang and require
> Shift-Break.
>
> Are there any ROM experts here who know what the difference is? Maybe
> it'll be possible to patch the Tandy 200's ROM.
>
> By the way, XON/XOFF is pretty much required. As Jim said, TELCOM does not
> support hardware handshaking.
>
> —b9
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 1:14 AM Cedric Amand  wrote:
>
>> I'm super interested in those serial problems, but I can't fully grasp
>> John's phrase below, would you please clarify and elaborate a bit ?
>>
>> > 3 wire is all the model 100 / 200 actually uses unless you're using
>> HTERM
>> > or you like the godlike simplicity of the cable check lockup, or you
>> cannot disable the cable check in software.
>>
>> I often have lockups on my M200, I'm also under the impression (but I'm
>> no expert yet) that in some way it's serial (in this case null modem)
>> implementation niside TERM differs from the one of the M102. If I do a
>> direct null modem (full cable) between a M102 and a M200, with TERM, the
>> M200 will systematically lockup when the M102 hangs up ( EXIT/F8 ) whereas
>> the reverse is not true.
>> This with both ends using (or supposed to use) hardware handshake (and
>> xon/xoff disabled)
>> This is pure observation and might be specific to my setup, of course.
>>
>> However if you could please elaborate a bit about how the M10x/M200 uses
>> the serial lines, that would be much appreciated
>>
>> I "think" from my hours of fiddling that null modem serial on the
>> M10x/M200 only works reliably with xon/xoff and the hardware only handshake
>> (at least in TERM) is flaky on the receiving end. I have yet to try HTERM.
>> (It's for sure on my todo)
>>
>>
>

Re: [M100] Model 200 issues with Serial Wi-Fi Adapter

[B 9]

Thanks for doing that direct test from your Tandy 200 to 102. That confirms
that the Tandy 200's TELCOM program (and possibly anything that calls the
ROM to read the serial port) is different. I hadn't known that before. I
think it must be a bug because even a program that uses DSR to find out
whether another device is connected shouldn't hang and require Shift-Break.

Are there any ROM experts here who know what the difference is? Maybe it'll
be possible to patch the Tandy 200's ROM.

By the way, XON/XOFF is pretty much required. As Jim said, TELCOM does not
support hardware handshaking.

—b9



On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 1:14 AM Cedric Amand  wrote:

> I'm super interested in those serial problems, but I can't fully grasp
> John's phrase below, would you please clarify and elaborate a bit ?
>
> > 3 wire is all the model 100 / 200 actually uses unless you're using HTERM
> > or you like the godlike simplicity of the cable check lockup, or you
> cannot disable the cable check in software.
>
> I often have lockups on my M200, I'm also under the impression (but I'm no
> expert yet) that in some way it's serial (in this case null modem)
> implementation niside TERM differs from the one of the M102. If I do a
> direct null modem (full cable) between a M102 and a M200, with TERM, the
> M200 will systematically lockup when the M102 hangs up ( EXIT/F8 ) whereas
> the reverse is not true.
> This with both ends using (or supposed to use) hardware handshake (and
> xon/xoff disabled)
> This is pure observation and might be specific to my setup, of course.
>
> However if you could please elaborate a bit about how the M10x/M200 uses
> the serial lines, that would be much appreciated
>
> I "think" from my hours of fiddling that null modem serial on the
> M10x/M200 only works reliably with xon/xoff and the hardware only handshake
> (at least in TERM) is flaky on the receiving end. I have yet to try HTERM.
> (It's for sure on my todo)
>
>

Re: [M100] Model 200 issues with Serial Wi-Fi Adapter

[Jim Anderson]

> -Original Message-
> 
> direct null modem (full cable) between a M102 and a M200, with TERM, the
> M200 will systematically lockup when the M102 hangs up ( EXIT/F8 )
> whereas the reverse is not true.

That completely tracks, because when the T102 (or M100) hangs up, it drops DTR 
(and RTS) which your null cable is sending to the T200 as DSR and CTS.  T200 
sees the loss of DSR and CTS, and TELCOM freezes.  The reverse is not true 
because the T102 (and M100) do not care whether or not they get those signals.

> This with both ends using (or supposed to use) hardware handshake (and
> xon/xoff disabled)

As a side note, TELCOM does not use hardware flow control (aside from locking 
up on the T200), you can only (E)nable or (D)isable software flow control in 
the STAT string.  If you disable software flow control, it doesn't do any flow 
control whatsoever.







jim

Re: [M100] Backpack drives

[birt_j]

I'm working on finishing up some more now. It was rather hard to guess at how 
many of which adapters folks might want but we are building more of the ones 
low in stock. I'm setting up each of the options as separate stock items so you 
can tell if the option you selected is in stock or not. (For example, I won't 
have more extra CR1025 batteries until next week.)  I also just enabled the 
'Notify when back in stock' button. 

Jeff Birt

-Original Message-
From: M100  On Behalf Of Philippe Van Lieu
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2022 10:21 AM
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] Backpack drives

Any plans for a restock on the Backpacks? I was in the process of ordering one 
yesterday but I forgot to finish the process. So I thought to myself this 
morning "eh, it can't be THAT popular, I'll just finish the order now" and... 
nope, 'Out of Stock'. Ooof I deserve that!

If no restock is immediately planned, that's OK, I'll just do a better job of 
jumping on them whenever next time happens! Thanks!

Re: [M100] Backpack drives

[Philippe Van Lieu]

Any plans for a restock on the Backpacks? I was in the process of 
ordering one yesterday but I forgot to finish the process. So I thought 
to myself this morning "eh, it can't be THAT popular, I'll just finish 
the order now" and... nope, 'Out of Stock'. Ooof I deserve that!


If no restock is immediately planned, that's OK, I'll just do a better 
job of jumping on them whenever next time happens! Thanks!

Re: [M100] Model 200 issues with Serial Wi-Fi Adapter

[Cedric Amand]

I'm super interested in those serial problems, but I can't fully grasp John's 
phrase below, would you please clarify and elaborate a bit ? > 3 wire is all 
the model 100 / 200 actually uses unless you're using HTERM > or you like the 
godlike simplicity of the cable check lockup, or you cannot disable the cable 
check in software. I often have lockups on my M200, I'm also under the 
impression (but I'm no expert yet) that in some way it's serial (in this case 
null modem) implementation niside TERM differs from the one of the M102. If I 
do a direct null modem (full cable) between a M102 and a M200, with TERM, the 
M200 will systematically lockup when the M102 hangs up ( EXIT/F8 ) whereas the 
reverse is not true. This with both ends using (or supposed to use) hardware 
handshake (and xon/xoff disabled) This is pure observation and might be 
specific to my setup, of course. However if you could please elaborate a bit 
about how the M10x/M200 uses the serial lines, that would be much appreciated

 I "think" from my hours of fiddling that null modem serial on the M10x/M200 
only works reliably with xon/xoff and the hardware only handshake (at least in 
TERM) is flaky on the receiving end. I have yet to try HTERM. (It's for sure on 
my todo)

[M100] New article on the Bitchin100 wiki... peeking Option ROM Space

[John R. Hogerhuis]

I wrote up an article on PEEKing an Option ROM from a BASIC program based
on a question that came up on Facebook.

Well, really most of the article is about how to embed ML subroutines as
strings in your program.

https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=Peeking_the_Option_ROM_From_a_BASIC_Program

-- John.

Re: [M100] Model 200 issues with Serial Wi-Fi Adapter

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 10:34 PM B 9  wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 5:10 PM John R. Hogerhuis 
> wrote:
>
>> Given that it wasn't actually using flow control I see no reason to make
>> a simple 3 wire cable fail. It's punishingly opinionated. Sort of like
>> Frank Lloyd Wright building interior walls at an angle because he didn't
>> like people hanging pictures in the houses he made for them.
>>
>
> Heh! I heard they hung pictures anyway. And, of course, I agree that
> TELCOM shouldn't have cared about DSR unless it had a mighty good reason.
>
> Let's see if I got this right,
>
>Model 100: Ignores DSR
>Tandy 200: Becomes punishingly opinionated about DSR
>Tandy 102: Goes back to ignoring DSR
>
> Maybe someone at Microsoft was attempting to add flow control to the Tandy
> 200 ROM and got it partially done before they had to ship.
>
> Does anyone know how to check the DSR register on the UART from BASIC? I
> see something about I/O ports in the service manual
> ,
> but I'm not clear what port I should be reading or how.
>

https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=Model_100_Serial_Interface

There's a I/O map at the end of the page. Did you mean Model 100/T102 or
Tandy 200? There is an article on the wiki but I think it was copied from
the Model 100 one as a starting point. Probably needs work.

 -- John.