Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
Hello together, 1st thanks to Steve for the nice spreadsheet, it makes it quite comfortable to create customized keyboard mapping maybe for T10x also. Question: I´ve now the idea to create a custom font set i.e. CodePage 437 compatible. In T102 ROM I´ve found @7711H a 1248d byte range representing the font map, but where to find it in M200 ROM? Thanks in advance for any hint Regards Georg == Ihre Nachricht == von : Stephen Adolph gesendet : Samstag, 19. November 2022, 01:18 an : "m...@bitchin100.com" Betreff : [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200 __ Originalnachricht ___ > So, to recap, > 1. We have a spreadsheet to create custom key maps for Tandy 200 > 2. Separately, we are trying to confirm in hardware that a single 27C64 rom > can be substituted for M13, to implement the custom keymap. > I would encourage the approach for dealing with different keyboards on other > machines. > Keep in mind.. if the actual characters themselves change, the modification > is deeper. Such is the case for M10 for example. (Or just use the usa > character set to make it easy). > Thanks > Steve __ Ende Originalnachricht __
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
On 19/11/22 22:26, Cedric Amand wrote: Currently, I've been trying to replace my main 32KB ROM with a ST M27C256A-100 This works. And I've been trying to replace the 8KB with a ST M27C64A-150 I agree with Mike - that's a 150 nS vs 100 nS part. Try to obtain a part that's substantially quicker. Cheers, --dt
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
Bonjour, Cedric, If possible, I would try to get a chip from a different manufacturer. Even during normal programming people have found subtle differences among brands in the behaviour of some pins, especially /PGM (pin 27 in this case), and since this is a non-standard undefined use it's possible that what works with one will be unreliable with another. Maybe also try to find a 120ns -12 version while you're at it. m - Original Message - From: Cedric Amand To: m...@bitchin100.com Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2022 6:56 AM Subject: Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200 Currently, I've been trying to replace my main 32KB ROM with a ST M27C256A-100 This works. And I've been trying to replace the 8KB with a ST M27C64A-150 This does not work for me. The system freezes after seconds, then becomes completely unusable to the point even the power button (or a hard reset) does nothing, screen displays garbage or just all black pixels I've ordered alternative parts, in case my 27C64 is marginal in some way, but the ROM reads and re-reads fine in a TL866, and it's a copy of the original ROM. I'm continuing my experiments when new parts arrive. Le 2022-11-19 01:19, Stephen Adolph a écrit : So, to recap, 1. We have a spreadsheet to create custom key maps for Tandy 200 2. Separately, we are trying to confirm in hardware that a single 27C64 rom can be substituted for M13, to implement the custom keymap. I would encourage the approach for dealing with different keyboards on other machines. Keep in mind.. if the actual characters themselves change, the modification is deeper. Such is the case for M10 for example. (Or just use the usa character set to make it easy). Thanks Steve
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
Currently, I've been trying to replace my main 32KB ROM with a ST M27C256A-100 This works. And I've been trying to replace the 8KB with a ST M27C64A-150 This does not work for me. The system freezes after seconds, then becomes completely unusable to the point even the power button (or a hard reset) does nothing, screen displays garbage or just all black pixels I've ordered alternative parts, in case my 27C64 is marginal in some way, but the ROM reads and re-reads fine in a TL866, and it's a copy of the original ROM. I'm continuing my experiments when new parts arrive. Le 2022-11-19 01:19, Stephen Adolph a écrit : > So, to recap, > > > 1. We have a spreadsheet to create custom key maps for Tandy 200 > > > > 2. Separately, we are trying to confirm in hardware that a single 27C64 rom can be substituted for M13, to implement the custom keymap. > > > > I would encourage the approach for dealing with different keyboards on other machines. > > > > Keep in mind.. if the actual characters themselves change, the modification is deeper. Such is the case for M10 for example. (Or just use the usa character set to make it easy). > > > > > > Thanks > > Steve > > >
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
So, to recap, 1. We have a spreadsheet to create custom key maps for Tandy 200 2. Separately, we are trying to confirm in hardware that a single 27C64 rom can be substituted for M13, to implement the custom keymap. I would encourage the approach for dealing with different keyboards on other machines. Keep in mind.. if the actual characters themselves change, the modification is deeper. Such is the case for M10 for example. (Or just use the usa character set to make it easy). Thanks Steve
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
LOL! " you went and remained the same MikeS as always. So by all means refrain away in the future." Some people seem to see a MikeS who generally tries to be friendly and helpful; maybe you can tell me off-list why you apparently see a different one. Time to end this childish public exchange before we get a stern warning from John ;-) m - Original Message - From: Brian White To: m...@bitchin100.com Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200 "We're never going to resolve this problem you have." -- bkw On Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 10:34 PM Mike Stein wrote: And you too never disappoint ;-) Obviously you and I will never resolve whatever your problem is with me (and John?) The discussion in question was indeed a total waste of time (as a few others in the past) and I think I'm entitled to choose how to spend my time; life's getting shorter all the time... I rarely contribute anything anyway, certainly nothing that smarter folks won't also come up with, so as I said, I'll leave it up to them while I spend more time elsewhere; you've certainly contributed an impressive amount of knowledge and hardware to the community and I'll definitely continue to follow this list for useful information and just the sense of community. m On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 6:56 PM Brian K. White wrote: On 11/17/22 16:23, MikeS wrote: > I think in future I'll refrain from wasting time Promise? I was ready to acknowledge and apologize because you're right, I didn't really get that at first and did replicate something already said. But then you went and remained the same MikeS as always. So by all means refrain away in the future. -- bkw
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
"We're never going to resolve this problem you have." -- bkw On Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 10:34 PM Mike Stein wrote: > And you too never disappoint ;-) Obviously you and I will never resolve > whatever your problem is with me (and John?) > > The discussion in question was indeed a total waste of time (as a few > others in the past) and I think I'm entitled to choose how to spend my > time; life's getting shorter all the time... > > I rarely contribute anything anyway, certainly nothing that smarter folks > won't also come up with, so as I said, I'll leave it up to them while I > spend more time elsewhere; you've certainly contributed an impressive > amount of knowledge and hardware to the community and I'll definitely > continue to follow this list for useful information and just the sense of > community. > > m > > > > On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 6:56 PM Brian K. White > wrote: > >> On 11/17/22 16:23, MikeS wrote: >> >> > I think in future I'll refrain from wasting time >> >> Promise? >> I was ready to acknowledge and apologize because you're right, I didn't >> really get that at first and did replicate something already said. But >> then you went and remained the same MikeS as always. So by all means >> refrain away in the future. >> >> -- >> bkw >> >>
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
And you too never disappoint ;-) Obviously you and I will never resolve whatever your problem is with me (and John?) The discussion in question was indeed a total waste of time (as a few others in the past) and I think I'm entitled to choose how to spend my time; life's getting shorter all the time... I rarely contribute anything anyway, certainly nothing that smarter folks won't also come up with, so as I said, I'll leave it up to them while I spend more time elsewhere; you've certainly contributed an impressive amount of knowledge and hardware to the community and I'll definitely continue to follow this list for useful information and just the sense of community. m On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 6:56 PM Brian K. White wrote: > On 11/17/22 16:23, MikeS wrote: > > > I think in future I'll refrain from wasting time > > Promise? > I was ready to acknowledge and apologize because you're right, I didn't > really get that at first and did replicate something already said. But > then you went and remained the same MikeS as always. So by all means > refrain away in the future. > > -- > bkw > >
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
On 11/17/22 16:23, MikeS wrote: I think in future I'll refrain from wasting time Promise? I was ready to acknowledge and apologize because you're right, I didn't really get that at first and did replicate something already said. But then you went and remained the same MikeS as always. So by all means refrain away in the future. -- bkw
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
Congratulations on "solving the mystery". Of course there never really was a mystery. I said as much , although not in so many words and without confusing the issue with irrelevant references to /WE and voltage levels and confusing Vpp with /PGM. It only needed confirmation by someone plugging in a 2764 that PGM overrides /OE, since it isn't defined in the datasheet, in case the particular unit in question had a different motherboard. >From my posts: "Pin 27 is the Program pin which looks like it might _effectively be an active high OE_ (since there is no program voltage." and "if /OE and /PGM disables data out then a 27C64 should work." To which you replied that "27C64 can't be used as-is", "pin 27, being /WE (/PGM), still needs to be held at VCC" etc. To be followed by a tedious thread of me suggesting that someone with a 200 actually try it, and you arguing at length that it couldn't work. Glad to see that you managed to solve the mystery all on your own. I think in future I'll refrain from wasting time with technical comments and leave it to "experts" like you. m . - Original Message - From: "Brian K. White" To: Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200 > > > > On 11/14/22 11:47, Georg Käter wrote: >> Hello together, >> >> my Tandy 200 (European version, build in 1985) uses main PCB >> #-PLX178AHIX. This board accepts >> >> standard UV-eraseable EPROM 27C256 (32kB) and 27C64 (8kB) 150ns type w/o >> any modification. >> >> Maybe there are other revisions of PCB with different EPROM pinout I´m >> not aware of. > > In a conversation off-list just now I think we just figured out why it > works. > > I'll just describe verbally but to follow along and check the work, the > reference material you'll need are the service manual for 200 to get the > schematic for the 200, and the datasheets for HN61364, and 27C64. All > easily googled. And in the 200 schematic you're looking at the M13 and > M15 positions (top-right corner), and one gate on M29 that combines 2 > signals into one pin on M15. > > To start, all else being equal, > * both chips get their /CS at the same time from the same /RD line from > the 200 > * both chips, (in a sense, if you count the OR gate on M29 as part of > M15) get their /OE at the same time from /BANK1 from the 200 > * A15 ends up interlocking the two chips so that when one is active the > other is inactive. When A15 is low, only M15 is enabled, and when A15 is > high only M13 is enabled. This assumes that the pin labelled /CE1 is > really an active high not an active low, and we CAN assume that, because > all other pins on both chips are not up for any kind of debate, they are > known and certain and not ambiguous. If pin 27 on M13 were actually > active-low, then both chips would be active at the same time. > > (The pin names on M13 are a bit confising because for some reason the > 200 schematic labels the 3 OE pins as /CE0 /CE1 /CE2. But they are > really OE pins not CE pins. The /CE pin is /CS, and for this discussion > I'm calling the others /OE0, OE1, and /CE2. OE1 is really active-high so > that's yet another correction.) > > So the tldr for the normal case with original parts is: > A15 low=M15 high=M13 > > Now with a standard 27C64: > * pin 1 is NC from the socket, which means VPP is floating. That is bad > in general, but you get away with it in this case because it's not a > normal input but a VPP that needs a much higher voltage than vcc or any > voltage any other pin ever sees. Since no pin anywhere on the chip ever > sees anything outside the range of gnd to vcc, then a flapping input may > flap, but shouldn't be able to float any higher than vcc, and vcc is > just fine. Ideally we want that pin nailed to vcc even. It means we can > essentially ignore VPP, and ignore the write implications of /WE. We > can't ignore /WE, but we can ignore the *write* implications. It can > never write, regardless what state /WE is in, regardless what state any > other pins are in. > * /OE has the same /BANK1 as the /OE on M15 (via M29) > * A15 is on /WE > > So, it's just down to answering: What happens when A15 is high, and when > it's low, when the states of the other pins are all VPP<=vcc, /CE low, > /OE low? > > A15 low -> /WE low, which is technically undefined behavior being low at > the same time as /OE, but apparently overrides /OE and prevents output. > /CE and /OE are both low so it wants to output data, but /WE blocks it, > and yet, /WE doesn't
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
E-Mail : georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de <mailto:georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de> == Ihre Nachricht == *von* : Brian K. White *gesendet* : Montag, 14. November 2022, 16:24 *an* : m100@lists.bitchin100.com *Betreff* : [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200 __ Originalnachricht ___ On 11/14/22 10:11, Brian K. White wrote: On 11/14/22 09:12, Brian White wrote: The datasheet says to rest vpp at vcc. Most do, even if elsewhere they >> also say that writing is disabled as long as vpp is below vpp and the >> only low limit is pretty much the same as for any other pin, like 0.5 >> or 0.7 below vcc. derp I mean the low limit is a little below GND or VSS not VCC. Although a Microchip 27C64 datasheet I happen to be looking at at the > moment does actually say the vpp read voltage is min vcc-0.7, max vcc. More derp, I obviously confused VPP with /WE there. But pin 27, being /WE (/PGM), still needs to be held at VCC not GND, although theoretically any writes should still fail without VPP, but still, you just hold /WE at VCC for reads. __ Ende Originalnachricht __ *Vertraulichkeitsinformation: *Diese Nachricht ist vertraulich. Die Informationen dieser Nachricht sind ausschließlich für die persönliche und vertrauliche Verwendung durch den/die oben genannten Empfänger bestimmt. Wenn Sie kein beabsichtigter Empfänger sind, bitte lesen, kopieren und verwenden Sie die Nachricht nicht. Machen Sie sie nicht anderen zugänglich. Bitte informieren Sie uns umgehend über den Zustellfehler und senden Sie die Originalnachricht per E-Mail an uns zurück. *Confidentiality Notice: *This message is confidential. The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, or use it and do not disclose it to others. Please inform us immediately of the delivery error and return the original message to us via e-mail. -- bkw
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
That's what the lengthy discussion with Brian is about; if /OE and /PGM disables data out then a 27C64 should work. Unlikely, but possible; more likely that Georg's board is revised and only uses 2 active-low chip selects. On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 11:54 AM Stephen Adolph wrote: > Very interesting Georg, > Can you take some photos of thr PCB sometime if you happen to have your > machine open? > It is a bit of a pain to reassemble I know. > > How did you determine that a 27C64 worked in > M13 socket? Besides the obvious that it does work. > > Because the schematic does not seem to indicate that. Maybe your board is > very different. > > Thx > Steve > > On Monday, November 14, 2022, Georg Käter < > georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de> wrote: > >> Hello together, >> >> >> >> my Tandy 200 (European version, build in 1985) uses main PCB >> #-PLX178AHIX. This board accepts >> >> standard UV-eraseable EPROM 27C256 (32kB) and 27C64 (8kB) 150ns type w/o >> any modification. >> >> Maybe there are other revisions of PCB with different EPROM pinout I´m >> not aware of. >> >> >> Regards >> >> Georg >> >> Georg Käter >> Gangolfsweg 44 >> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Gangolfsweg+44+%0D%0AD-52076+Aachen?entry=gmail&source=g> >> D-52076 Aachen >> Tel.: +49 2408 7194987 >> Fax.: +49 2408 7196758 >> Mobil: +49 171 4839954 >> E-Mail : >> georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de >> >> ====== Ihre Nachricht == >> >> *von* : Brian K. White >> *gesendet* : Montag, 14. November 2022, 16:24 >> *an* : m100@lists.bitchin100.com >> *Betreff* : [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200 >> >> __ Originalnachricht ___ >> >> On 11/14/22 10:11, Brian K. White wrote: >> >> On 11/14/22 09:12, Brian White wrote: >> >> The datasheet says to rest vpp at vcc. Most do, even if elsewhere they >> >> also say that writing is disabled as long as vpp is below vpp and the >> >> only low limit is pretty much the same as for any other pin, like 0.5 >> or >> 0.7 below vcc. >> >> derp I mean the low limit is a little below GND or VSS not VCC. >> >> Although a Microchip 27C64 datasheet I happen to be looking at at the > >> moment does actually say the vpp read voltage is min vcc-0.7, max vcc. >> >> >> More derp, I obviously confused VPP with /WE there. >> But pin 27, being /WE (/PGM), still needs to be held at VCC not GND, >> although theoretically any writes should still fail without VPP, but still, >> you just hold /WE at VCC for reads. >> >> >> >> >> __ Ende Originalnachricht __ >> >> >> *Vertraulichkeitsinformation: *Diese Nachricht ist vertraulich. Die >> Informationen dieser Nachricht sind ausschließlich für die persönliche >> und vertrauliche Verwendung durch den/die oben genannten Empfänger >> bestimmt. Wenn Sie kein beabsichtigter >> Empfänger sind, bitte lesen, kopieren und verwenden Sie die Nachricht >> nicht. Machen Sie sie nicht anderen >> zugänglich. Bitte informieren Sie uns umgehend über den Zustellfehler und >> senden Sie die Originalnachricht >> per E-Mail an uns zurück. >> >> >> *Confidentiality Notice: *This message is confidential. The information >> contained in this message is intended only for the personal >> and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the >> intended recipient, please do not >> read, copy, or use it and do not disclose it to others. Please inform us >> immediately of the delivery error >> and return the original message to us via e-mail. >> >
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
Very interesting Georg, Can you take some photos of thr PCB sometime if you happen to have your machine open? It is a bit of a pain to reassemble I know. How did you determine that a 27C64 worked in M13 socket? Besides the obvious that it does work. Because the schematic does not seem to indicate that. Maybe your board is very different. Thx Steve On Monday, November 14, 2022, Georg Käter < georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de> wrote: > Hello together, > > > > my Tandy 200 (European version, build in 1985) uses main PCB #-PLX178AHIX. > This board accepts > > standard UV-eraseable EPROM 27C256 (32kB) and 27C64 (8kB) 150ns type w/o > any modification. > > Maybe there are other revisions of PCB with different EPROM pinout I´m > not aware of. > > > Regards > > Georg > > Georg Käter > Gangolfsweg 44 > <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Gangolfsweg+44+%0D%0AD-52076+Aachen?entry=gmail&source=g> > D-52076 Aachen > Tel.: +49 2408 7194987 > Fax.: +49 2408 7196758 > Mobil: +49 171 4839954 > E-Mail : > georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de > > == Ihre Nachricht == > > *von* : Brian K. White > *gesendet* : Montag, 14. November 2022, 16:24 > *an* : m100@lists.bitchin100.com > *Betreff* : [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200 > > __ Originalnachricht ___ > > On 11/14/22 10:11, Brian K. White wrote: > > On 11/14/22 09:12, Brian White wrote: > > The datasheet says to rest vpp at vcc. Most do, even if elsewhere they >> > also say that writing is disabled as long as vpp is below vpp and the >> > only low limit is pretty much the same as for any other pin, like 0.5 >> or > 0.7 below vcc. > > derp I mean the low limit is a little below GND or VSS not VCC. > > Although a Microchip 27C64 datasheet I happen to be looking at at the > > moment does actually say the vpp read voltage is min vcc-0.7, max vcc. > > > More derp, I obviously confused VPP with /WE there. > But pin 27, being /WE (/PGM), still needs to be held at VCC not GND, > although theoretically any writes should still fail without VPP, but still, > you just hold /WE at VCC for reads. > > > > > __ Ende Originalnachricht __ > > > *Vertraulichkeitsinformation: *Diese Nachricht ist vertraulich. Die > Informationen dieser Nachricht sind ausschließlich für die persönliche > und vertrauliche Verwendung durch den/die oben genannten Empfänger > bestimmt. Wenn Sie kein beabsichtigter > Empfänger sind, bitte lesen, kopieren und verwenden Sie die Nachricht > nicht. Machen Sie sie nicht anderen > zugänglich. Bitte informieren Sie uns umgehend über den Zustellfehler und > senden Sie die Originalnachricht > per E-Mail an uns zurück. > > > *Confidentiality Notice: *This message is confidential. The information > contained in this message is intended only for the personal > and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the > intended recipient, please do not > read, copy, or use it and do not disclose it to others. Please inform us > immediately of the delivery error > and return the original message to us via e-mail. >
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
Oh, *that* Vpp... ;-) On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 11:38 AM Brian K. White wrote: > On 11/14/22 11:17, Mike Stein wrote: > > "Vpp is below Vpp"? Not sure what you meant there? > > Yeah sorry, vpp the pin at a level below vpp the level > it's only tech, no need to be unambiguous or anything :) > > -- > bkw > >
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
Hello together, my Tandy 200 (European version, build in 1985) uses main PCB #-PLX178AHIX. This board accepts standard UV-eraseable EPROM 27C256 (32kB) and 27C64 (8kB) 150ns type w/o any modification. Maybe there are other revisions of PCB with different EPROM pinout I´m not aware of. Regards Georg Georg Käter Gangolfsweg 44 D-52076 Aachen Tel. : +49 2408 7194987 Fax. : +49 2408 7196758 Mobil : +49 171 4839954 E-Mail : georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de == Ihre Nachricht == von : Brian K. White gesendet : Montag, 14. November 2022, 16:24 an : m100@lists.bitchin100.com Betreff : [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200 __ Originalnachricht ___ > On 11/14/22 10:11, Brian K. White wrote: >> On 11/14/22 09:12, Brian White wrote: >>> The datasheet says to rest vpp at vcc. Most do, even if elsewhere they >> >>> also say that writing is disabled as long as vpp is below vpp and the >> >>> only low limit is pretty much the same as for any other pin, like 0.5 >> or >>> 0.7 below vcc. >>> derp I mean the low limit is a little below GND or VSS not VCC. >> Although a Microchip 27C64 datasheet I happen to be looking at at the > >> moment does actually say the vpp read voltage is min vcc-0.7, max vcc. > More derp, I obviously confused VPP with /WE there. > But pin 27, being /WE (/PGM), still needs to be held at VCC not GND, although > theoretically any writes should still fail without VPP, but still, you just > hold /WE at VCC for reads. __ Ende Originalnachricht __ Vertraulichkeitsinformation: Diese Nachricht ist vertraulich. Die Informationen dieser Nachricht sind ausschließlich für die persönliche und vertrauliche Verwendung durch den/die oben genannten Empfänger bestimmt. Wenn Sie kein beabsichtigter Empfänger sind, bitte lesen, kopieren und verwenden Sie die Nachricht nicht. Machen Sie sie nicht anderen zugänglich. Bitte informieren Sie uns umgehend über den Zustellfehler und senden Sie die Originalnachricht per E-Mail an uns zurück. Confidentiality Notice: This message is confidential. The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, or use it and do not disclose it to others. Please inform us immediately of the delivery error and return the original message to us via e-mail.
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
On 11/14/22 11:17, Mike Stein wrote: "Vpp is below Vpp"? Not sure what you meant there? Yeah sorry, vpp the pin at a level below vpp the level it's only tech, no need to be unambiguous or anything :) -- bkw
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
Oops; received this after sending mine. Writes will definitely fail; I'm just curious whether outputs are enabled with /OE low and /PGM also low. On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 10:24 AM Brian K. White wrote: > On 11/14/22 10:11, Brian K. White wrote: > > On 11/14/22 09:12, Brian White wrote: > >> The datasheet says to rest vpp at vcc. Most do, even if elsewhere they > >> also say that writing is disabled as long as vpp is below vpp and the > >> only low limit is pretty much the same as for any other pin, like 0.5 > >> or 0.7 below vcc. > > > > derp I mean the low limit is a little below GND or VSS not VCC. > > Although a Microchip 27C64 datasheet I happen to be looking at at the > > moment does actually say the vpp read voltage is min vcc-0.7, max vcc. > > More derp, I obviously confused VPP with /WE there. > But pin 27, being /WE (/PGM), still needs to be held at VCC not GND, > although theoretically any writes should still fail without VPP, but > still, you just hold /WE at VCC for reads. > > -- > bkw > >
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
; are all OE not CE, and it appears that /CE1 should be shown as >>> > active-high, so really: /OE0, OE1, /OE2 , and /CS is a normal >>> actual >>> > whole chip enable, active low. >>> > >>> > I was just now in the middle of drawing up an adapter for that chip >>> > like FlexROM_102 but for that chip, to facilitate using the main >>> rom >>> > replacement feature of REX Classic in a 200 the way I have already >>> > for 100 and 102. >>> > >>> > But it may be simpler to make a different kind of adapter that >>> > replaces both chips with a single larger chip on a single adapter >>> in >>> > the main rom socket and simply remove the 8k chip. The /BANK1 line >>> > goes to both chips the same, and A15 ends up activating one or the >>> > other exclusively at any given moment. >>> > >>> > bkw >>> > >>> > On Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 4:48 PM Mike Stein >> > <mailto:mhs.st...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Looking at the schematic, are you sure it's 8K and not 16 >>> (27x128)? >>> > >>> > Looks standard except for pins 26 & 27 >>> > >>> > On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 4:23 PM Stephen Adolph >>> > mailto:twospru...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Georg, >>> > What type of ROM chips did you use, when you replaced your >>> > ROMs with patched versions? >>> > I've been pondering what the simplest way to do that is. >>> > The 8K M13 socket is wired oddly, and doesnt seem >>> compatible >>> > with a 27C64. >>> > thx >>> > Steve >>> > >>> > On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 12:30 PM Georg Käter >>> > >> > <mailto:georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Hello together, >>> > >>> > I own a M200 "German/EU Version" (Art.Nr. 26-3860H) >>> > w/modem, for German market it was delivered with set of >>> > keyboard >>> > >>> > caps and a data tape including driver for keyboard and >>> > printer. I tried this in VirtualT and it seems to work >>> > so far. To run REX >>> > >>> > on my M200 I replaced original ROM by ROM from VirtualT >>> > patched to serve german keyboard mapping. >>> > >>> > For your reference I´ve added original ROM files and >>> > files from tape for your reference. >>> > >>> > Regards >>> > >>> > Georg >>> > >>> > >>> > Georg Käter >>> > Gangolfsweg 44 >>> > D-52076 Aachen >>> > Tel.: +49 2408 7194987 >>> > Fax.: +49 2408 7196758 >>> > Mobil: +49 171 4839954 >>> > E-Mail : >>> > >>> > georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de >>> > <mailto:georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de> >>> > >>> > == Ihre Nachricht >>> > == >>> > >>> > *von* : Cedric Amand >> > <mailto:ced...@cedric.net>> >>> > *gesendet* : Sonntag, 13. November 2022, 15:37 >>> > *an* : m...@bitchin100.com >>> > <mailto:m...@bitchin100.com> >>> > *Betreff* : [M100] custom key mapping generator for >>> > Tandy 200 >>> > >>> > __ Originalnachricht >>> > ___ >>> > >>> > My point exactly Brian ! >>> > How did they come up with that idea ? It makes no >>> > sense. It really prevents you fr
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
On 11/14/22 10:11, Brian K. White wrote: On 11/14/22 09:12, Brian White wrote: The datasheet says to rest vpp at vcc. Most do, even if elsewhere they also say that writing is disabled as long as vpp is below vpp and the only low limit is pretty much the same as for any other pin, like 0.5 or 0.7 below vcc. derp I mean the low limit is a little below GND or VSS not VCC. Although a Microchip 27C64 datasheet I happen to be looking at at the moment does actually say the vpp read voltage is min vcc-0.7, max vcc. More derp, I obviously confused VPP with /WE there. But pin 27, being /WE (/PGM), still needs to be held at VCC not GND, although theoretically any writes should still fail without VPP, but still, you just hold /WE at VCC for reads. -- bkw
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
>
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 4:48 PM Mike Stein
<mailto:mhs.st...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Looking at the schematic, are you sure it's 8K and
not 16 (27x128)?
>
> Looks standard except for pins 26 & 27
>
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 4:23 PM Stephen Adolph
> mailto:twospru...@gmail.com>>
wrote:
>
> Georg,
> What type of ROM chips did you use, when you
replaced your
> ROMs with patched versions?
> I've been pondering what the simplest way to do
that is.
> The 8K M13 socket is wired oddly, and doesnt
seem compatible
> with a 27C64.
> thx
> Steve
>
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 12:30 PM Georg Käter
>
<mailto:georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de>> wrote:
>
> Hello together,
>
> I own a M200 "German/EU Version" (Art.Nr.
26-3860H)
> w/modem, for German market it was delivered
with set of
> keyboard
>
> caps and a data tape including driver for
keyboard and
> printer. I tried this in VirtualT and it
seems to work
> so far. To run REX
>
> on my M200 I replaced original ROM by ROM
from VirtualT
> patched to serve german keyboard mapping.
>
> For your reference I´ve added original ROM
files and
> files from tape for your reference.
>
> Regards
>
> Georg
>
>
> Georg Käter
> Gangolfsweg 44
> D-52076 Aachen
> Tel. : +49 2408 7194987
> Fax. : +49 2408 7196758
> Mobil : +49 171 4839954
> E-Mail :
>
> georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de
> <mailto:georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de>
>
> == Ihre Nachricht
> ==========
>
> *von* : Cedric Amand <mailto:ced...@cedric.net>>
> *gesendet* : Sonntag, 13. November 2022, 15:37
> *an* : m...@bitchin100.com
> <mailto:m...@bitchin100.com>
> *Betreff* : [M100] custom key mapping
generator for
> Tandy 200
>
> __ Originalnachricht
> ___
>
> My point exactly Brian !
> How did they come up with that idea ? It
makes no
> sense. It really prevents you from using
the option
> rom socket.
> The docs does not talk about removing it.
> And even if you could remove it ; the
installation
> procedure of that ROM is not easy at
all, requires
> to type two "calls" with the freaking
keyboard inverted.
> OK - us nerds 40 years later can do it
easily, just
> type "CQLL", but imagine explaining that
to a random
> journalist in 1984 ?!
> Especially as the french doc (which I
happen to
> have) says to type "CALL" not CQLL.
> I also wonder if other markets are
affected by this
> plague,
> If anyone here lives in germany and owns
a qwertz
> (or other keyboard variant) of the M200
: do you
> have a "stock option ROM" as well ?
> I also wish to thank Stephen publicly
for the time
> he invested into helping me,
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
>> > >> > On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 4:23 PM Stephen Adolph >> > mailto:twospru...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > >> > Georg, >> > What type of ROM chips did you use, when you replaced your >> > ROMs with patched versions? >> > I've been pondering what the simplest way to do that is. >> > The 8K M13 socket is wired oddly, and doesnt seem compatible >> > with a 27C64. >> > thx >> > Steve >> > >> > On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 12:30 PM Georg Käter >> > > > <mailto:georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de>> wrote: >> > >> > Hello together, >> > >> > I own a M200 "German/EU Version" (Art.Nr. 26-3860H) >> > w/modem, for German market it was delivered with set of >> > keyboard >> > >> > caps and a data tape including driver for keyboard and >> > printer. I tried this in VirtualT and it seems to work >> > so far. To run REX >> > >> > on my M200 I replaced original ROM by ROM from VirtualT >> > patched to serve german keyboard mapping. >> > >> > For your reference I´ve added original ROM files and >> > files from tape for your reference. >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > Georg >> > >> > >> > Georg Käter >> > Gangolfsweg 44 >> > D-52076 Aachen >> > Tel.: +49 2408 7194987 >> > Fax.: +49 2408 7196758 >> > Mobil: +49 171 4839954 >> > E-Mail : >> > >> > georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de >> > <mailto:georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de> >> > >> > == Ihre Nachricht >> > == >> > >> > *von* : Cedric Amand > > <mailto:ced...@cedric.net>> >> > *gesendet* : Sonntag, 13. November 2022, 15:37 >> > *an* : m...@bitchin100.com >> > <mailto:m...@bitchin100.com> >> > *Betreff* : [M100] custom key mapping generator for >> > Tandy 200 >> > >> > __ Originalnachricht >> > ___ >> > >> > My point exactly Brian ! >> > How did they come up with that idea ? It makes no >> > sense. It really prevents you from using the option >> > rom socket. >> > The docs does not talk about removing it. >> > And even if you could remove it ; the installation >> > procedure of that ROM is not easy at all, requires >> > to type two "calls" with the freaking keyboard >> inverted. >> > OK - us nerds 40 years later can do it easily, just >> > type "CQLL", but imagine explaining that to a random >> > journalist in 1984 ?! >> > Especially as the french doc (which I happen to >> > have) says to type "CALL" not CQLL. >> > I also wonder if other markets are affected by this >> > plague, >> > If anyone here lives in germany and owns a qwertz >> > (or other keyboard variant) of the M200 : do you >> > have a "stock option ROM" as well ? >> > I also wish to thank Stephen publicly for the time >> > he invested into helping me, as indeed, you can't >> > use an option ROM (and even less a REX#) in those >> > non-qwerty M200s, and I think this research might >> > help some other people at some stage (this hobby is >> > booming right ? :) ) >> >
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
caps and a data tape including driver for keyboard and > > printer. I tried this in VirtualT and it seems to work > > so far. To run REX > > > > on my M200 I replaced original ROM by ROM from VirtualT > > patched to serve german keyboard mapping. > > > > For your reference I´ve added original ROM files and > > files from tape for your reference. > > > > Regards > > > > Georg > > > > > > Georg Käter > > Gangolfsweg 44 > > D-52076 Aachen > > Tel.: +49 2408 7194987 > > Fax.: +49 2408 7196758 > > Mobil: +49 171 4839954 > > E-Mail : > > > > georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de > > <mailto:georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de> > > > > == Ihre Nachricht > > == > > > > *von* : Cedric Amand > <mailto:ced...@cedric.net>> > > *gesendet* : Sonntag, 13. November 2022, 15:37 > > *an* : m...@bitchin100.com > > <mailto:m...@bitchin100.com> > > *Betreff* : [M100] custom key mapping generator for > > Tandy 200 > > > > __ Originalnachricht > > ___ > > > > My point exactly Brian ! > > How did they come up with that idea ? It makes no > > sense. It really prevents you from using the option > > rom socket. > > The docs does not talk about removing it. > > And even if you could remove it ; the installation > > procedure of that ROM is not easy at all, requires > > to type two "calls" with the freaking keyboard > inverted. > > OK - us nerds 40 years later can do it easily, just > > type "CQLL", but imagine explaining that to a random > > journalist in 1984 ?! > > Especially as the french doc (which I happen to > > have) says to type "CALL" not CQLL. > > I also wonder if other markets are affected by this > > plague, > > If anyone here lives in germany and owns a qwertz > > (or other keyboard variant) of the M200 : do you > > have a "stock option ROM" as well ? > > I also wish to thank Stephen publicly for the time > > he invested into helping me, as indeed, you can't > > use an option ROM (and even less a REX#) in those > > non-qwerty M200s, and I think this research might > > help some other people at some stage (this hobby is > > booming right ? :) ) > > We're (and I am) in the process of replacing the > > main rom + 8KB rom with a 27C512 flashed with a > > custom "native Azerty" firmware > > Which should free up to option socket, for a REX# > > I also plan to make other modifications to that > > custom ROM, but we'll see if I get there. > > I've also been experimenting in the past with custom > > firmware for the my M102 for different reasons. > > I'm a "modem" nerd and I have all the equipment > > (PABX, etc) to make voice calls between my vintage > > laptops - so it's important for me to have my modems > > work. This required a custom firmware to make my > > M102 work, with modem, with a REX#. ( OK I think > > this kind of stuff is only relevant to me this time > > :) :) > > Le 2022-11-13 14:53, Brian White > > mailto:b.kenyo...@gmail.com>> > > a écrit : > > > > Nic
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
27C64 can't be used as-is.
pin 27 is A15 and needs to needs to go to a non-existing 2nd OE or CE.
You'd need an adapter board that combines pin 27 (A15) from the socket,
with pin 22 /CE0 (/BANK#1) from the socket, to produce a single /CE to
pin 22 of the chip.
You could do that with a single 2-gate NAND part the same as in this
model 200 RAM
https://github.com/bkw777/TANDY_200_RAM#single-bank---sop
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/bkw777/TANDY_200_RAM/main/TANDY_200_RAM.svg
That is using one nand gate just to invert /CS1 to CS1,
then ANDing those to make a single CS, and inverting that to make a
single /CS output to the chip's /CE
The point is getting the job done with only 2 gates of the same type so
it's all from a single part.
They even make little 8-leg parts with just the 2 needed gates.
For 27C64 you'd need to do that with /CE0 from bus pin 22 and CE1 from
bus pin 27, to produce a single /OE to chip pin 22. And chip pin 27
pulled to VCC by anything from 100k to a plain trace. All other pins
including /CS would go 1:1 socket to chip.
On 11/13/22 19:38, Mike Stein wrote:
Duh; shoulda looked more carefully; it really IS A15 (not A13) and it
goes to /CE1 (or CE1); double duh! Thanks, Brian.
So it looks like the only non-standard pin is pin 27, since 26 is not
used. Has anyone actually tried a JEDEC standard 27C64?
Pin 27 is the Program pin which looks like it might effectively be an
active high OE (since there is no program voltage.
m
On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 5:27 PM Brian White <mailto:b.kenyo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
8k.
HN61364 = 8k
A15 is connected to a chip select to enable/disable the whole chip
(really just output enable not chip enable despite the /CEx labels),
and the actual address lines are only A0-A12
It's mostly like 27C64 but with 3 OE lines, customer programmable to
be either active high or low as part of the mask programming.
Although the schematic labels them as /CE0 /CE1 /CE2, really they
are all OE not CE, and it appears that /CE1 should be shown as
active-high, so really: /OE0, OE1, /OE2 , and /CS is a normal actual
whole chip enable, active low.
I was just now in the middle of drawing up an adapter for that chip
like FlexROM_102 but for that chip, to facilitate using the main rom
replacement feature of REX Classic in a 200 the way I have already
for 100 and 102.
But it may be simpler to make a different kind of adapter that
replaces both chips with a single larger chip on a single adapter in
the main rom socket and simply remove the 8k chip. The /BANK1 line
goes to both chips the same, and A15 ends up activating one or the
other exclusively at any given moment.
bkw
On Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 4:48 PM Mike Stein mailto:mhs.st...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Looking at the schematic, are you sure it's 8K and not 16 (27x128)?
Looks standard except for pins 26 & 27
On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 4:23 PM Stephen Adolph
mailto:twospru...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Georg,
What type of ROM chips did you use, when you replaced your
ROMs with patched versions?
I've been pondering what the simplest way to do that is.
The 8K M13 socket is wired oddly, and doesnt seem compatible
with a 27C64.
thx
Steve
On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 12:30 PM Georg Käter
mailto:georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de>> wrote:
Hello together,
I own a M200 "German/EU Version" (Art.Nr. 26-3860H)
w/modem, for German market it was delivered with set of
keyboard
caps and a data tape including driver for keyboard and
printer. I tried this in VirtualT and it seems to work
so far. To run REX
on my M200 I replaced original ROM by ROM from VirtualT
patched to serve german keyboard mapping.
For your reference I´ve added original ROM files and
files from tape for your reference.
Regards
Georg
Georg Käter
Gangolfsweg 44
D-52076 Aachen
Tel. : +49 2408 7194987
Fax. : +49 2408 7196758
Mobil : +49 171 4839954
E-Mail :
georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de
<mailto:georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de>
== Ihre Nachricht
==
*von* : Cedric Amand mailto:ced...@cedric.net>>
*gesendet* : Sonntag, 13. November 2022, 15:37
*an* : m...@bitchin100.com
<
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
Duh; shoulda looked more carefully; it really IS A15 (not A13) and it goes to /CE1 (or CE1); double duh! Thanks, Brian. So it looks like the only non-standard pin is pin 27, since 26 is not used. Has anyone actually tried a JEDEC standard 27C64? Pin 27 is the Program pin which looks like it might effectively be an active high OE (since there is no program voltage. m On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 5:27 PM Brian White wrote: > 8k. > > HN61364 = 8k > A15 is connected to a chip select to enable/disable the whole chip (really > just output enable not chip enable despite the /CEx labels), and the actual > address lines are only A0-A12 > > It's mostly like 27C64 but with 3 OE lines, customer programmable to be > either active high or low as part of the mask programming. Although the > schematic labels them as /CE0 /CE1 /CE2, really they are all OE not CE, and > it appears that /CE1 should be shown as active-high, so really: /OE0, OE1, > /OE2 , and /CS is a normal actual whole chip enable, active low. > > I was just now in the middle of drawing up an adapter for that chip like > FlexROM_102 but for that chip, to facilitate using the main rom replacement > feature of REX Classic in a 200 the way I have already for 100 and 102. > > But it may be simpler to make a different kind of adapter that replaces > both chips with a single larger chip on a single adapter in the main rom > socket and simply remove the 8k chip. The /BANK1 line goes to both chips > the same, and A15 ends up activating one or the other exclusively at any > given moment. > > bkw > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 4:48 PM Mike Stein wrote: > >> Looking at the schematic, are you sure it's 8K and not 16 (27x128)? >> >> Looks standard except for pins 26 & 27 >> >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 4:23 PM Stephen Adolph >> wrote: >> >>> Georg, >>> What type of ROM chips did you use, when you replaced your ROMs with >>> patched versions? >>> I've been pondering what the simplest way to do that is. >>> The 8K M13 socket is wired oddly, and doesnt seem compatible with a >>> 27C64. >>> thx >>> Steve >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 12:30 PM Georg Käter < >>> georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello together, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I own a M200 "German/EU Version" (Art.Nr. 26-3860H) w/modem, for German >>>> market it was delivered with set of keyboard >>>> >>>> caps and a data tape including driver for keyboard and printer. I tried >>>> this in VirtualT and it seems to work so far. To run REX >>>> >>>> on my M200 I replaced original ROM by ROM from VirtualT patched to >>>> serve german keyboard mapping. >>>> >>>> For your reference I´ve added original ROM files and files from tape >>>> for your reference. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Georg >>>> >>>> >>>> Georg Käter >>>> Gangolfsweg 44 >>>> D-52076 Aachen >>>> Tel.: +49 2408 7194987 >>>> Fax.: +49 2408 7196758 >>>> Mobil: +49 171 4839954 >>>> E-Mail : >>>> georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de >>>> >>>> == Ihre Nachricht == >>>> >>>> *von* : Cedric Amand >>>> *gesendet* : Sonntag, 13. November 2022, 15:37 >>>> *an* : m...@bitchin100.com >>>> *Betreff* : [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200 >>>> >>>> __ Originalnachricht ___ >>>> >>>> My point exactly Brian ! >>>> How did they come up with that idea ? It makes no sense. It really >>>> prevents you from using the option rom socket. >>>> The docs does not talk about removing it. >>>> >>>> And even if you could remove it ; the installation procedure of that >>>> ROM is not easy at all, requires to type two "calls" with the freaking >>>> keyboard inverted. >>>> OK - us nerds 40 years later can do it easily, just type "CQLL", but >>>> imagine explaining that to a random journalist in 1984 ?! >>>> Especially as the french doc (which I happen to have) says to type >>>> "CALL" not CQLL. >>>> >>>> I also wonder if other markets are affected by this plague, >>>
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
On Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 5:27 PM Brian White wrote: > 8k. > > HN61364 = 8k > A15 is connected to a chip select to enable/disable the whole chip (really > just output enable not chip enable despite the /CEx labels), and the actual > address lines are only A0-A12 > > It's mostly like 27C64 but with 3 OE lines, customer programmable to be > either active high or low as part of the mask programming. Although the > schematic labels them as /CE0 /CE1 /CE2, really they are all OE not CE, and > it appears that /CE1 should be shown as active-high, so really: /OE0, OE1, > /OE2 , and /CS is a normal actual whole chip enable, active low. > > I was just now in the middle of drawing up an adapter for that chip like > FlexROM_102 but for that chip, to facilitate using the main rom replacement > feature of REX Classic in a 200 the way I have already for 100 and 102. > To clarify, for 200, you would use a FlexROM_102 in the main rom socket, with it's /CS_out going to the REX's TP1, same as for a 102. And the new adapter in the 8K socket, with it's /OE0 (pin 22) going to the REX's TP2 And both of those would have their own return wires also going to the optrom compartment, so that you could remove the REX and connect the wires to each other in the optrom compartment to boot from the internal roms instead of REX without having to open the 200's case any more. > But it may be simpler to make a different kind of adapter that replaces > both chips with a single larger chip on a single adapter in the main rom > socket and simply remove the 8k chip. The /BANK1 line goes to both chips > the same, and A15 ends up activating one or the other exclusively at any > given moment. > > bkw > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 4:48 PM Mike Stein wrote: > >> Looking at the schematic, are you sure it's 8K and not 16 (27x128)? >> >> Looks standard except for pins 26 & 27 >> >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 4:23 PM Stephen Adolph >> wrote: >> >>> Georg, >>> What type of ROM chips did you use, when you replaced your ROMs with >>> patched versions? >>> I've been pondering what the simplest way to do that is. >>> The 8K M13 socket is wired oddly, and doesnt seem compatible with a >>> 27C64. >>> thx >>> Steve >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 12:30 PM Georg Käter < >>> georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello together, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I own a M200 "German/EU Version" (Art.Nr. 26-3860H) w/modem, for German >>>> market it was delivered with set of keyboard >>>> >>>> caps and a data tape including driver for keyboard and printer. I tried >>>> this in VirtualT and it seems to work so far. To run REX >>>> >>>> on my M200 I replaced original ROM by ROM from VirtualT patched to >>>> serve german keyboard mapping. >>>> >>>> For your reference I´ve added original ROM files and files from tape >>>> for your reference. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Georg >>>> >>>> >>>> Georg Käter >>>> Gangolfsweg 44 >>>> D-52076 Aachen >>>> Tel.: +49 2408 7194987 >>>> Fax.: +49 2408 7196758 >>>> Mobil: +49 171 4839954 >>>> E-Mail : >>>> georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de >>>> >>>> == Ihre Nachricht == >>>> >>>> *von* : Cedric Amand >>>> *gesendet* : Sonntag, 13. November 2022, 15:37 >>>> *an* : m...@bitchin100.com >>>> *Betreff* : [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200 >>>> >>>> __ Originalnachricht ___ >>>> >>>> My point exactly Brian ! >>>> How did they come up with that idea ? It makes no sense. It really >>>> prevents you from using the option rom socket. >>>> The docs does not talk about removing it. >>>> >>>> And even if you could remove it ; the installation procedure of that >>>> ROM is not easy at all, requires to type two "calls" with the freaking >>>> keyboard inverted. >>>> OK - us nerds 40 years later can do it easily, just type "CQLL", but >>>> imagine explaining that to a random journalist in 1984 ?! >>>> Especially as the french doc (which I happen to have) says to ty
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
8k. HN61364 = 8k A15 is connected to a chip select to enable/disable the whole chip (really just output enable not chip enable despite the /CEx labels), and the actual address lines are only A0-A12 It's mostly like 27C64 but with 3 OE lines, customer programmable to be either active high or low as part of the mask programming. Although the schematic labels them as /CE0 /CE1 /CE2, really they are all OE not CE, and it appears that /CE1 should be shown as active-high, so really: /OE0, OE1, /OE2 , and /CS is a normal actual whole chip enable, active low. I was just now in the middle of drawing up an adapter for that chip like FlexROM_102 but for that chip, to facilitate using the main rom replacement feature of REX Classic in a 200 the way I have already for 100 and 102. But it may be simpler to make a different kind of adapter that replaces both chips with a single larger chip on a single adapter in the main rom socket and simply remove the 8k chip. The /BANK1 line goes to both chips the same, and A15 ends up activating one or the other exclusively at any given moment. bkw On Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 4:48 PM Mike Stein wrote: > Looking at the schematic, are you sure it's 8K and not 16 (27x128)? > > Looks standard except for pins 26 & 27 > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 4:23 PM Stephen Adolph > wrote: > >> Georg, >> What type of ROM chips did you use, when you replaced your ROMs with >> patched versions? >> I've been pondering what the simplest way to do that is. >> The 8K M13 socket is wired oddly, and doesnt seem compatible with a 27C64. >> thx >> Steve >> >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 12:30 PM Georg Käter < >> georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de> wrote: >> >>> Hello together, >>> >>> >>> >>> I own a M200 "German/EU Version" (Art.Nr. 26-3860H) w/modem, for German >>> market it was delivered with set of keyboard >>> >>> caps and a data tape including driver for keyboard and printer. I tried >>> this in VirtualT and it seems to work so far. To run REX >>> >>> on my M200 I replaced original ROM by ROM from VirtualT patched to serve >>> german keyboard mapping. >>> >>> For your reference I´ve added original ROM files and files from tape for >>> your reference. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Georg >>> >>> >>> Georg Käter >>> Gangolfsweg 44 >>> D-52076 Aachen >>> Tel.: +49 2408 7194987 >>> Fax. : +49 2408 7196758 >>> Mobil: +49 171 4839954 >>> E-Mail : >>> georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de >>> >>> == Ihre Nachricht == >>> >>> *von* : Cedric Amand >>> *gesendet* : Sonntag, 13. November 2022, 15:37 >>> *an* : m...@bitchin100.com >>> *Betreff* : [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200 >>> >>> __ Originalnachricht ___ >>> >>> My point exactly Brian ! >>> How did they come up with that idea ? It makes no sense. It really >>> prevents you from using the option rom socket. >>> The docs does not talk about removing it. >>> >>> And even if you could remove it ; the installation procedure of that ROM >>> is not easy at all, requires to type two "calls" with the freaking keyboard >>> inverted. >>> OK - us nerds 40 years later can do it easily, just type "CQLL", but >>> imagine explaining that to a random journalist in 1984 ?! >>> Especially as the french doc (which I happen to have) says to type >>> "CALL" not CQLL. >>> >>> I also wonder if other markets are affected by this plague, >>> If anyone here lives in germany and owns a qwertz (or other keyboard >>> variant) of the M200 : do you have a "stock option ROM" as well ? >>> >>> I also wish to thank Stephen publicly for the time he invested into >>> helping me, as indeed, you can't use an option ROM (and even less a REX#) >>> in those non-qwerty M200s, and I think this research might help some other >>> people at some stage (this hobby is booming right ? :) ) >>> >>> We're (and I am) in the process of replacing the main rom + 8KB rom with >>> a 27C512 flashed with a custom "native Azerty" firmware >>> Which should free up to option socket, for a REX# >>> >>> I also plan to make other modifications to that custom ROM, but we'll >>> see
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
Looking at the schematic, are you sure it's 8K and not 16 (27x128)? Looks standard except for pins 26 & 27 On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 4:23 PM Stephen Adolph wrote: > Georg, > What type of ROM chips did you use, when you replaced your ROMs with > patched versions? > I've been pondering what the simplest way to do that is. > The 8K M13 socket is wired oddly, and doesnt seem compatible with a 27C64. > thx > Steve > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 12:30 PM Georg Käter < > georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de> wrote: > >> Hello together, >> >> >> >> I own a M200 "German/EU Version" (Art.Nr. 26-3860H) w/modem, for German >> market it was delivered with set of keyboard >> >> caps and a data tape including driver for keyboard and printer. I tried >> this in VirtualT and it seems to work so far. To run REX >> >> on my M200 I replaced original ROM by ROM from VirtualT patched to serve >> german keyboard mapping. >> >> For your reference I´ve added original ROM files and files from tape for >> your reference. >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> Georg >> >> >> Georg Käter >> Gangolfsweg 44 >> D-52076 Aachen >> Tel.: +49 2408 7194987 >> Fax.: +49 2408 7196758 >> Mobil: +49 171 4839954 >> E-Mail : >> georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de >> >> == Ihre Nachricht == >> >> *von* : Cedric Amand >> *gesendet* : Sonntag, 13. November 2022, 15:37 >> *an* : m...@bitchin100.com >> *Betreff* : [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200 >> >> __ Originalnachricht ___ >> >> My point exactly Brian ! >> How did they come up with that idea ? It makes no sense. It really >> prevents you from using the option rom socket. >> The docs does not talk about removing it. >> >> And even if you could remove it ; the installation procedure of that ROM >> is not easy at all, requires to type two "calls" with the freaking keyboard >> inverted. >> OK - us nerds 40 years later can do it easily, just type "CQLL", but >> imagine explaining that to a random journalist in 1984 ?! >> Especially as the french doc (which I happen to have) says to type "CALL" >> not CQLL. >> >> I also wonder if other markets are affected by this plague, >> If anyone here lives in germany and owns a qwertz (or other keyboard >> variant) of the M200 : do you have a "stock option ROM" as well ? >> >> I also wish to thank Stephen publicly for the time he invested into >> helping me, as indeed, you can't use an option ROM (and even less a REX#) >> in those non-qwerty M200s, and I think this research might help some other >> people at some stage (this hobby is booming right ? :) ) >> >> We're (and I am) in the process of replacing the main rom + 8KB rom with >> a 27C512 flashed with a custom "native Azerty" firmware >> Which should free up to option socket, for a REX# >> >> I also plan to make other modifications to that custom ROM, but we'll see >> if I get there. >> I've also been experimenting in the past with custom firmware for the my >> M102 for different reasons. >> I'm a "modem" nerd and I have all the equipment (PABX, etc) to make voice >> calls between my vintage laptops - so it's important for me to have my >> modems work. This required a custom firmware to make my M102 work, with >> modem, with a REX#. ( OK I think this kind of stuff is only relevant to me >> this time :) :) >> >> >> Le 2022-11-13 14:53, Brian White a écrit : >> >> Nice. >> >> So the point would be to make the main rom natively azerty to match the >> hardware, free up the option rom slot for normal use, without otherwise >> changing the main rom so that it becomes incompatible with application >> software? I guess you might even be able to make a dvorak version and move >> the keycaps around? >> >> I'm just trying to imagine the sales pitch for that azerty 200 that needs >> the option rom, thus preventing the use of any other option rom (or at >> least making it pretty inconvenient by having to swap them on every reset I >> guess?) >> >> "Here's your new model 200. It's only half as useful as others with no >> modem and no option rom but you can still pay full price please." >> >> -- >> bkw >> >> On Sun, Nov 1
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
Georg, What type of ROM chips did you use, when you replaced your ROMs with patched versions? I've been pondering what the simplest way to do that is. The 8K M13 socket is wired oddly, and doesnt seem compatible with a 27C64. thx Steve On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 12:30 PM Georg Käter < georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de> wrote: > Hello together, > > > > I own a M200 "German/EU Version" (Art.Nr. 26-3860H) w/modem, for German > market it was delivered with set of keyboard > > caps and a data tape including driver for keyboard and printer. I tried > this in VirtualT and it seems to work so far. To run REX > > on my M200 I replaced original ROM by ROM from VirtualT patched to serve > german keyboard mapping. > > For your reference I´ve added original ROM files and files from tape for > your reference. > > > > Regards > > Georg > > > Georg Käter > Gangolfsweg 44 > D-52076 Aachen > Tel.: +49 2408 7194987 > Fax.: +49 2408 7196758 > Mobil: +49 171 4839954 > E-Mail : > georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de > > == Ihre Nachricht == > > *von* : Cedric Amand > *gesendet* : Sonntag, 13. November 2022, 15:37 > *an* : m...@bitchin100.com > *Betreff* : [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200 > > __ Originalnachricht ___ > > My point exactly Brian ! > How did they come up with that idea ? It makes no sense. It really > prevents you from using the option rom socket. > The docs does not talk about removing it. > > And even if you could remove it ; the installation procedure of that ROM > is not easy at all, requires to type two "calls" with the freaking keyboard > inverted. > OK - us nerds 40 years later can do it easily, just type "CQLL", but > imagine explaining that to a random journalist in 1984 ?! > Especially as the french doc (which I happen to have) says to type "CALL" > not CQLL. > > I also wonder if other markets are affected by this plague, > If anyone here lives in germany and owns a qwertz (or other keyboard > variant) of the M200 : do you have a "stock option ROM" as well ? > > I also wish to thank Stephen publicly for the time he invested into > helping me, as indeed, you can't use an option ROM (and even less a REX#) > in those non-qwerty M200s, and I think this research might help some other > people at some stage (this hobby is booming right ? :) ) > > We're (and I am) in the process of replacing the main rom + 8KB rom with a > 27C512 flashed with a custom "native Azerty" firmware > Which should free up to option socket, for a REX# > > I also plan to make other modifications to that custom ROM, but we'll see > if I get there. > I've also been experimenting in the past with custom firmware for the my > M102 for different reasons. > I'm a "modem" nerd and I have all the equipment (PABX, etc) to make voice > calls between my vintage laptops - so it's important for me to have my > modems work. This required a custom firmware to make my M102 work, with > modem, with a REX#. ( OK I think this kind of stuff is only relevant to me > this time :) :) > > > Le 2022-11-13 14:53, Brian White a écrit : > > Nice. > > So the point would be to make the main rom natively azerty to match the > hardware, free up the option rom slot for normal use, without otherwise > changing the main rom so that it becomes incompatible with application > software? I guess you might even be able to make a dvorak version and move > the keycaps around? > > I'm just trying to imagine the sales pitch for that azerty 200 that needs > the option rom, thus preventing the use of any other option rom (or at > least making it pretty inconvenient by having to swap them on every reset I > guess?) > > "Here's your new model 200. It's only half as useful as others with no > modem and no option rom but you can still pay full price please." > > -- > bkw > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 8:28 AM Stephen Adolph wrote: > >> hi folks, >> >> Thought I would share this work. It is a spreadsheet for computing the >> keyboard table in the T200 so you can make native custom keyboards for T200. >> >> Why? >> The AZERTY keyboard in Europe was accommodated using an option ROM that >> kinda hacked the keyboard. Keystrokes get intercepted and corrected to be >> AZERTY even though the main ROM is set up for QWERTY. >> >> An alternative is to have the main rom directly support AZERTY. >> To do this, there are 6 keyboard mapping tab
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
Interesting Georg ! On my "french" (as in from France) M200 the keyboard is stock with azerty keys. When you say you patched your ROM, did you patch the 32 or 8KB ROM for the key mappings ? Did you lose the modem functionality (I guess so)- by using virtualT's ROM ? Have you considered (or maybe you don't need it) to make a hybrid rom by copy pasting the modem block out of your original ROM ? Le 2022-11-13 18:30, Georg Käter a écrit : > Hello together, > > > > > > I own a M200 "German/EU Version" (Art.Nr. 26-3860H) w/modem, for German market it was delivered with set of keyboard > > > > caps and a data tape including driver for keyboard and printer. I tried this in VirtualT and it seems to work so far. To run REX > > > > on my M200 I replaced original ROM by ROM from VirtualT patched to serve german keyboard mapping. > > > > For your reference I´ve added original ROM files and files from tape for your reference. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Georg > > > > > Georg Käter > Gangolfsweg 44 > D-52076 Aachen > Tel. : +49 2408 7194987 > Fax. : +49 2408 7196758 > Mobil : +49 171 4839954 > E-Mail : > > georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de (mailto:georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de) > > == Ihre Nachricht ====================== > > von : Cedric Amand > gesendet : Sonntag, 13. November 2022, 15:37 > an : m...@bitchin100.com > Betreff : [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200 > > __ Originalnachricht ___ > > > > > > My point exactly Brian ! > > > > How did they come up with that idea ? It makes no sense. It really prevents you from using the option rom socket. > > > > The docs does not talk about removing it. > > > > > > > > And even if you could remove it ; the installation procedure of that ROM is not easy at all, requires to type two "calls" with the freaking keyboard inverted. > > > > OK - us nerds 40 years later can do it easily, just type "CQLL", but imagine explaining that to a random journalist in 1984 ?! > > > > Especially as the french doc (which I happen to have) says to type "CALL" not CQLL. > > > > > > > > I also wonder if other markets are affected by this plague, > > > > If anyone here lives in germany and owns a qwertz (or other keyboard variant) of the M200 : do you have a "stock option ROM" as well ? > > > > > > > > I also wish to thank Stephen publicly for the time he invested into helping me, as indeed, you can't use an option ROM (and even less a REX#) in those non-qwerty M200s, and I think this research might help some other people at some stage (this hobby is booming right ? :) ) > > > > > > > > We're (and I am) in the process of replacing the main rom + 8KB rom with a 27C512 flashed with a custom "native Azerty" firmware > > > > Which should free up to option socket, for a REX# > > > > > > > > I also plan to make other modifications to that custom ROM, but we'll see if I get there. > > > > I've also been experimenting in the past with custom firmware for the my M102 for different reasons. > > > > I'm a "modem" nerd and I have all the equipment (PABX, etc) to make voice calls between my vintage laptops - so it's important for me to have my modems work. This required a custom firmware to make my M102 work, with modem, with a REX#. ( OK I think this kind of stuff is only relevant to me this time :) :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le 2022-11-13 14:53, Brian White a écrit : > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > So the point would be to make the main rom natively azerty to match the hardware, free up the option rom slot for normal use, without otherwise changing the main rom so that it becomes incompatible with application software? I guess you might even be able to make a dvorak version and move the keycaps around? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm just trying to imagine the sales pitch for that azerty 200 that needs the option rom, thus preventing the use of any other option rom (or at least making it pretty inconvenient by having to swap them on every reset I guess?) > > > > > > > > > > > > "Here's your new model 200. It's only half as useful as others with no modem and no option rom but you can still pay full price please." &
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
Hello together, I own a M200 "German/EU Version" (Art.Nr. 26-3860H) w/modem, for German market it was delivered with set of keyboard caps and a data tape including driver for keyboard and printer. I tried this in VirtualT and it seems to work so far. To run REX on my M200 I replaced original ROM by ROM from VirtualT patched to serve german keyboard mapping. For your reference I´ve added original ROM files and files from tape for your reference. Regards Georg Georg Käter Gangolfsweg 44 D-52076 Aachen Tel. : +49 2408 7194987 Fax. : +49 2408 7196758 Mobil : +49 171 4839954 E-Mail : georg.kae...@gk-engineering-services.de == Ihre Nachricht == von : Cedric Amand gesendet : Sonntag, 13. November 2022, 15:37 an : m...@bitchin100.com Betreff : [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200 __ Originalnachricht ___ > My point exactly Brian ! > How did they come up with that idea ? It makes no sense. It really prevents > you from using the option rom socket. > The docs does not talk about removing it. > > And even if you could remove it ; the installation procedure of that ROM is > not easy at all, requires to type two "calls" with the freaking keyboard > inverted. > OK - us nerds 40 years later can do it easily, just type "CQLL", but imagine > explaining that to a random journalist in 1984 ?! > Especially as the french doc (which I happen to have) says to type "CALL" not > CQLL. > > I also wonder if other markets are affected by this plague, > If anyone here lives in germany and owns a qwertz (or other keyboard variant) > of the M200 : do you have a "stock option ROM" as well ? > > I also wish to thank Stephen publicly for the time he invested into helping > me, as indeed, you can't use an option ROM (and even less a REX#) in those > non-qwerty M200s, and I think this research might help some other people at > some stage (this hobby is booming right ? :) ) > > We're (and I am) in the process of replacing the main rom + 8KB rom with a > 27C512 flashed with a custom "native Azerty" firmware > Which should free up to option socket, for a REX# > > I also plan to make other modifications to that custom ROM, but we'll see if > I get there. > I've also been experimenting in the past with custom firmware for the my M102 > for different reasons. > I'm a "modem" nerd and I have all the equipment (PABX, etc) to make voice > calls between my vintage laptops - so it's important for me to have my modems > work. This required a custom firmware to make my M102 work, with modem, with > a REX#. ( OK I think this kind of stuff is only relevant to me this time :) > :) > > > Le 2022-11-13 14:53, Brian White a écrit : >> Nice. >> >> So the point would be to make the main rom natively azerty to match the >> hardware, free up the option rom slot for normal use, without otherwise >> changing the main rom so that it becomes incompatible with application >> software? I guess you might even be able to make a dvorak version and move >> the keycaps around? >> >> I'm just trying to imagine the sales pitch for that azerty 200 that needs >> the option rom, thus preventing the use of any other option rom (or at least >> making it pretty inconvenient by having to swap them on every reset I guess?) >> >> "Here's your new model 200. It's only half as useful as others with no modem >> and no option rom but you can still pay full price please." >> __ Ende Originalnachricht __ Vertraulichkeitsinformation: Diese Nachricht ist vertraulich. Die Informationen dieser Nachricht sind ausschließlich für die persönliche und vertrauliche Verwendung durch den/die oben genannten Empfänger bestimmt. Wenn Sie kein beabsichtigter Empfänger sind, bitte lesen, kopieren und verwenden Sie die Nachricht nicht. Machen Sie sie nicht anderen zugänglich. Bitte informieren Sie uns umgehend über den Zustellfehler und senden Sie die Originalnachricht per E-Mail an uns zurück. Confidentiality Notice: This message is confidential. The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, or use it and do not disclose it to others. Please inform us immediately of the delivery error and return the original message to us via e-mail.<> <>
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
My point exactly Brian ! How did they come up with that idea ? It makes no sense. It really prevents you from using the option rom socket. The docs does not talk about removing it. And even if you could remove it ; the installation procedure of that ROM is not easy at all, requires to type two "calls" with the freaking keyboard inverted. OK - us nerds 40 years later can do it easily, just type "CQLL", but imagine explaining that to a random journalist in 1984 ?! Especially as the french doc (which I happen to have) says to type "CALL" not CQLL. I also wonder if other markets are affected by this plague, If anyone here lives in germany and owns a qwertz (or other keyboard variant) of the M200 : do you have a "stock option ROM" as well ? I also wish to thank Stephen publicly for the time he invested into helping me, as indeed, you can't use an option ROM (and even less a REX#) in those non-qwerty M200s, and I think this research might help some other people at some stage (this hobby is booming right ? :) ) We're (and I am) in the process of replacing the main rom + 8KB rom with a 27C512 flashed with a custom "native Azerty" firmware Which should free up to option socket, for a REX# I also plan to make other modifications to that custom ROM, but we'll see if I get there. I've also been experimenting in the past with custom firmware for the my M102 for different reasons. I'm a "modem" nerd and I have all the equipment (PABX, etc) to make voice calls between my vintage laptops - so it's important for me to have my modems work. This required a custom firmware to make my M102 work, with modem, with a REX#. ( OK I think this kind of stuff is only relevant to me this time :) :) Le 2022-11-13 14:53, Brian White a écrit : > > > Nice. > > > > So the point would be to make the main rom natively azerty to match the hardware, free up the option rom slot for normal use, without otherwise changing the main rom so that it becomes incompatible with application software? I guess you might even be able to make a dvorak version and move the keycaps around? > > > > I'm just trying to imagine the sales pitch for that azerty 200 that needs the option rom, thus preventing the use of any other option rom (or at least making it pretty inconvenient by having to swap them on every reset I guess?) > > > > "Here's your new model 200. It's only half as useful as others with no modem and no option rom but you can still pay full price please." > > > > -- > > bkw > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 8:28 AM Stephen Adolph mailto:twospru...@gmail.com)> wrote: > > > > > > > > hi folks, > > > > > > > > Thought I would share this work. It is a spreadsheet for computing the keyboard table in the T200 so you can make native custom keyboards for T200. > > > > > > > > Why? > > > > The AZERTY keyboard in Europe was accommodated using an option ROM that kinda hacked the keyboard. Keystrokes get intercepted and corrected to be AZERTY even though the main ROM is set up for QWERTY. > > > > > > > > An alternative is to have the main rom directly support AZERTY. > > > > To do this, there are 6 keyboard mapping tables that start at 9763h. Each table are 44 bytes long. > > > > > > > > This spreadsheet lets you assign the ascii codes for each of the 44 affected keys, for all 6 tables. (unshifted, shifted, GRAPH, shift GRAPH, CODE, Shift CODE). > > > > > > > > It is an excel spreadsheet that included the analysis add it so that certain needed functions are present. > > > > > > > > Once you make the correct keyboard mapping, the spreadsheet provides the 6x44 bytes in assembly compatible form, so you can compile and patch the tables with a hex editor. > > > > > > > > This approach could be used for other machines also. > > > > Note - the AZERTY keyboard did NOT modify the actual character set, so that is out of scope. Of course it is possible to patch the main ROM to change the bitmaps as well. Not handled by this spreadsheet. > > > > > > > > Comments welcome. > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
Yes, native support is the idea. After looking at how the AZERTY driver works, it would be possible to remove the azerty option rom after the driver is installed. the driver is a LOMEM driver. But, it does steal the timer interrupt to do so. I think that is the main issue. Anything that uses the timer interrupt would break,. So, I think the AZERTY variant is compatible with option roms in general, with that caveat. And every cold restart needs to have the AZERTY driver reinstalled (option rom swaps!). Steve On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 8:53 AM Brian White wrote: > Nice. > > So the point would be to make the main rom natively azerty to match the > hardware, free up the option rom slot for normal use, without otherwise > changing the main rom so that it becomes incompatible with application > software? I guess you might even be able to make a dvorak version and move > the keycaps around? > > I'm just trying to imagine the sales pitch for that azerty 200 that needs > the option rom, thus preventing the use of any other option rom (or at > least making it pretty inconvenient by having to swap them on every reset I > guess?) > > "Here's your new model 200. It's only half as useful as others with no > modem and no option rom but you can still pay full price please." > > -- > bkw > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 8:28 AM Stephen Adolph wrote: > >> hi folks, >> >> Thought I would share this work. It is a spreadsheet for computing the >> keyboard table in the T200 so you can make native custom keyboards for T200. >> >> Why? >> The AZERTY keyboard in Europe was accommodated using an option ROM that >> kinda hacked the keyboard. Keystrokes get intercepted and corrected to be >> AZERTY even though the main ROM is set up for QWERTY. >> >> An alternative is to have the main rom directly support AZERTY. >> To do this, there are 6 keyboard mapping tables that start at 9763h. >> Each table are 44 bytes long. >> >> This spreadsheet lets you assign the ascii codes for each of the 44 >> affected keys, for all 6 tables. (unshifted, shifted, GRAPH, shift GRAPH, >> CODE, Shift CODE). >> >> It is an excel spreadsheet that included the analysis add it so that >> certain needed functions are present. >> >> Once you make the correct keyboard mapping, the spreadsheet provides the >> 6x44 bytes in assembly compatible form, so you can compile and patch the >> tables with a hex editor. >> >> This approach could be used for other machines also. >> Note - the AZERTY keyboard did NOT modify the actual character set, so >> that is out of scope. Of course it is possible to patch the main ROM to >> change the bitmaps as well. Not handled by this spreadsheet. >> >> Comments welcome. >> Steve >> >>
Re: [M100] custom key mapping generator for Tandy 200
Nice. So the point would be to make the main rom natively azerty to match the hardware, free up the option rom slot for normal use, without otherwise changing the main rom so that it becomes incompatible with application software? I guess you might even be able to make a dvorak version and move the keycaps around? I'm just trying to imagine the sales pitch for that azerty 200 that needs the option rom, thus preventing the use of any other option rom (or at least making it pretty inconvenient by having to swap them on every reset I guess?) "Here's your new model 200. It's only half as useful as others with no modem and no option rom but you can still pay full price please." -- bkw On Sun, Nov 13, 2022, 8:28 AM Stephen Adolph wrote: > hi folks, > > Thought I would share this work. It is a spreadsheet for computing the > keyboard table in the T200 so you can make native custom keyboards for T200. > > Why? > The AZERTY keyboard in Europe was accommodated using an option ROM that > kinda hacked the keyboard. Keystrokes get intercepted and corrected to be > AZERTY even though the main ROM is set up for QWERTY. > > An alternative is to have the main rom directly support AZERTY. > To do this, there are 6 keyboard mapping tables that start at 9763h. Each > table are 44 bytes long. > > This spreadsheet lets you assign the ascii codes for each of the 44 > affected keys, for all 6 tables. (unshifted, shifted, GRAPH, shift GRAPH, > CODE, Shift CODE). > > It is an excel spreadsheet that included the analysis add it so that > certain needed functions are present. > > Once you make the correct keyboard mapping, the spreadsheet provides the > 6x44 bytes in assembly compatible form, so you can compile and patch the > tables with a hex editor. > > This approach could be used for other machines also. > Note - the AZERTY keyboard did NOT modify the actual character set, so > that is out of scope. Of course it is possible to patch the main ROM to > change the bitmaps as well. Not handled by this spreadsheet. > > Comments welcome. > Steve > >
