Re: User oriented release notes
--- Quim Gil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > - Integrate marketing and ""business"" visions with > the technical vision > that is guiding the 2.18 release. Since day zero. > Someone > needs to think what these bodies need and how the > next release is going > to help them, be useful to them. I think you're absolutely right. But there is this perception that developers on Free projects "work only on what they want to work on" and "only on what's fun", and that therefore, for example, you "can't demand that bug X be fixed"... I know this is the sort of rhetoric you see on slashdot, and therefore a little bit exaggerated. But I do get a general feeling that developers resent any outside intervention, whether that's by marketing, documentation, or usability people. This is bad for GNOME. Bugs don't get fixed, features are developed in isolation without reference to the rest of the dektop interface, and the big decisions get deferred indefinitely. > - Planning and production of the ""release notes"" > following the release > cycle. We start deciding who are our audiences, what > we want to give > them, how we present the information to them. We > don't need to wait a > feature freeze to go ahead with this. The same way that I want to be able to start writing documention for new features before freeze... ;) ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: User oriented release notes
Long email, sorry. This thread hits a topic that got me thinking a lot in the last weeks. First of all, thank you specially to Claus, Vincent, Panos and Alex Smith. Thanks to them we had 2.16 release notes on time. > http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/index.html Right, let's start doing things right for the 2.18 release. You like that Apple example. Ok. Let's analyze not that page but what is behind that page: - A clear marketing strategy integrated with the technical strategy and of course the business strategy, since the first day. Apple knows which audiences they target and these three strategies are targeting the same audiences. - A marketing planning and production that starts, evolves and is completed almost during the same timeline as the technical development process, with a regular communication between both processes. - A good chunk of resources invested in marketing & design, not only in the web pages and the ad campaigns, also in technical parts of the development. Instead, we have at least these weaknesses: - No clear audiences to target with a release, nor with the release notes. Is the home user a target of our release notes or not? Is the press a target or not? Are we targeting the distro managers or not? And so on. - No marketing strategy for the releases in the context of no clear marketing strategy for GNOME either. The release cycle has no marketing intervention, only at the end we come and try to find what is most remarkable and how to sell it. We do this alone, only few developers provide feedback on time because we are overwhelmed finishing their stuff. And we do this without a clear GNOME marketing strategy, a roadmap or any solid guideline, all is personal choice with high levels of time pressure and improvisation. - 1-2 weeks to market what it took 6 months to develop. In terms of human resources, 10 volunteers at most take part in the marketing part in spare hours, while the development is held by dozens of teams summing up more than... 100? 200? developers, many of them working professionally full time. Looking at this it would be almost a miracle that we could produce release notes as good as the release itself. What we can do in the 2.18 release cycle in order to improve considerably the release notes (and, what is most important, probably the release process and the released software): - Integrate marketing and ""business"" visions with the technical vision that is guiding the 2.18 release. Since day zero. - Marketing vision means that someone in the release team is thinking how are we going to sell 2.18, which are the core points, achievements, novelties, and how this release fits in the GNOME roadmap (we need one). - Business vision. GNOME si not doing business as Apple does, but we need to be a sustainable community and each release needs to enforce and consolidate the GNOME project if we want to achieve our long term goals. Our sustainability depends on the sustainability of our stakeholders: individual contributors/volunteers, project teams, ISDs, deployers, distros, advisory board companies, the Foundation itself... Someone needs to think what these bodies need and how the next release is going to help them, be useful to them. - Planning and production of the ""release notes"" following the release cycle. We start deciding who are our audiences, what we want to give them, how we present the information to them. We don't need to wait a feature freeze to go ahead with this. This work would be coordinated with the production of the new ""About GNOME"" section, the GNOME Products tool, the Press kit and any other element in the neighborhood of the ""release notes"" (that perhaps would need a new name). This is a wgo 2.18 goal, and it requires the same level of planning and commitment (or more) as other goals we are facing in the current release cycle. -- Quim Gil /// http://desdeamericaconamor.org | http://guadec.org signature.asc Description: Això és una part d'un missatge, signada digitalment -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Epiphany Homepage
Mmm probably the Epiphany developers will have an opinion about this. Why don't you submit a request for enhancement? http://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=epiphany I use Google with Epiphany all the time, but I never need the Google homepage to do that, since the Google search is integrated in the URI entry field. Having the google.com as default page is like a redundancy. This could be a good default: http://www.gnome.org/projects/epiphany/ Or better, the Epiphany product page once we have product pages in wgo 2.18. It is a one go default page, yes. But anyway, changing the default page is one of the first things user do, and it takes one minute. In any case, the Marketing Team is not going to decide anything without the Epiphany developers, hence the recommendation to submit a bug/RFE. -- Quim Gil /// http://desdeamericaconamor.org | http://guadec.org signature.asc Description: Això és una part d'un missatge, signada digitalment -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Page Layout Update
Hi Karderio, thank you for challenging the home with good arguments. :)
El ds 09 de 09 del 2006 a les 02:32 +0200, en/na karderio va escriure:
> I certainly wouldn't put planet GNOME feeds on the front page.
Others would, since this block was an idea suggested by no-Lee-nor-me. I
think it's appropriate: Planet GNOME is probably our most read GNOME
subsite, there must be reason for that.
> Users
> either won't know what people are talking about, or be confused to the
> point of suspecting the site to be compromised when they see a bloke
> talking about his last holidays in Spain.
Many will know, or will want to know at least. Let's remember that our
targeted users are freedom/software enthusiasts, independent software
developers, public sector, press and GNOME contributors. That user Joe
with no idea nor interest in free software is not our target.
The PLanet block shows at least that "GNOME is People", something that
apparently we want to make visible and explicit. If the title is too
geeky we will be showing that we know a lot about geek stuff (which is
not bad). If the title is too personal/off-geeky we will show that this
is community made by normal people who also go on holidays to Spain.
GNOME is People... like you, is what this Planet block would be showing.
Think that Microsoft, Apple and other corps wouldn't dare to have such a
free window anywhere in they websites, leave alone in the homepage.
If we would be showing the last 3 posts, now they would be:
[Havoc's hackergotchi] - DAV and gnome-vfs (Havoc Pennington)
[Miguel's hackergotchi] - Mono, .NET and Linux in Firenze (Miguel de
Icaza)
[Luis' hackergotchi] - Four more miscellaneous bits (Luis Villa)
Not bad. In any case a blog title totally off topic, horrible,
compromising etc won't last in the wgo home more than few hours. These
are a minority, most Planet blog posts are totally on-topic.
> Perhaps something of an introductory text along the lines of "GNOME, the
> soft fluffy computer simplifier !\n\n If you want to know more or even
> see the contraption in action, click 'about'. Find out how to get your
> hands on it by clicking...".
This function is already covered by the Slogan component in the top
right column.
> I do hope that each link in the Primary Nav Bar will link to a single
> set of subpages. For example, when I click on About, I would expect
> *all* the pages in that section to be displayed in the block of links
> shown on the right. This could maybe even be a rule of thumb, anything
> requiring another level of hierarchy being either badly organised,
> superfluous, belonging on another site or in a new primary section.
This is the normal behavior of a navigation scheme, yes. Currently wgo
mixes things up in many cases, both in the top nav bar and the nav bar
block in the right column, but this is something we need to fix. This
belongs to http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/Navigation though.
> I suppose the site will be displayed in the language sent by the users
> browser...
We assume this, yes. See http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/Localization
("How do we choose the correct localization?"). Now that you mention it
though, it is not defined in the web policies. I've added a comment to
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/WebPolicies since this should be perhaps
an i18n policy. Thank you for benchmarking our documentation! :)
--
Quim Gil /// http://desdeamericaconamor.org | http://guadec.org
signature.asc
Description: Això és una part d'un missatge, signada digitalment
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Re: Journalists contacted
Unfortunately I don't. I do have the business card of one of the British linux magazines (Linux Format I think). I have tried Wired before using their web form when I was doing GUADEC press releases. But I did not get any response from them. I can try again next cycle or perhaps try to set up a relationship. On the international part, I hope our members in India have contacts in the "The Hindu" or "The Times of India". I know my family members are voracious newspaper readers and I've seen enough to make a generalization that most Indians do. It'll generate some excellent press for us if it's in the context of human interest. sri On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 02:56:39PM +0200, Dave Neary wrote: > > Hi Sri, > > Quoting Sri Ramkrishna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > Have you tried contacting Wired? > > Nope, they weren't in the list. > > Do you know someone there you could call or email? Journalist communication > needs to be bottom-up - no one person can be a pont opf failure. We're a large > and international community - let's use that to our advantage. > > Cheers, > Dave. > > -- > Dave Neary > Lyon, France -- -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Epiphany Homepage
There is also financial part of that, as Google gives some amount of money for every query done from Firefox start page (having said that if you want to support Firefox do some search through start page). I'd rather GNOME not to have such connections with companies product-wise. For firefox, Google is directly related with their working area, and having such a mutual connection put lots of power into Mozilla's hand. I doubt that that is valid for GNOME. So either having a search engine based start page, or directly pointing to their page is not a good option. Maybe epiphany include a basic what's new page with every release an point that location locally. That's what Fedora does with default home pages. > On 9/9/06, Joachim Noreiko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> --- Luca Cavalli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 17:33 +0100, Joachim Noreiko >> > wrote: >> > > > Another option could be to create a >> > > > Gnome start page just >> > > > for the purpose of using it as home page in >> > > > Epiphany. >> > > >> > > Hmmm... maybe. >> > > But don't most distros overwrite that anyway? >> > Ubuntu >> > > certainly provides a home page (not sure if it >> > puts it >> > > into Epi as well as Firefox, but logically it >> > should). >> > > >> > > I don't think it's worth the effort of something >> > else >> > > to maintain on our site. >> > > >> > >> > Well, just because Ubuntu, or any other distro, >> > override GNOME defaults, >> > it is not a good reason to not have them. This was >> > the same for splash >> > screen (I can remember a discussion about that a >> > couple of releases >> > ago). Not all distros overwrite GNOME defaults and >> > not all users install >> > precompiled packages. GNOME should take care also of >> > these users. >> > Ciao, >> >> Have I said before how much I dislike the distro model >> and how much difficulty it causes us? ... oh yeah, >> nearly every day ;) >> >> Anyway, yes, point taken. >> >> Can we simply use a part of the w.g.o site already >> planned for in the proposed new structure? >> If not, would this home page be something a visitor to >> w.g.o can access? ie, is it something we must add to >> the structure, or does it remain separate? And what's >> a good stable URL? > > It blows my mind that anyone would think about replacing the most > useful homepage on the internet (google) with a page that will be > useful to our users *once*, in the *best case* scenario. > > Now, if someone talked to google about creating something like: > http://www.google.com/firefox > > That might be both useful to our users and good for our marketing. > That probably needs to be something discussed carefully with the board > before it happens, though. > > Luis > -- > marketing-list mailing list > marketing-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list > -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Epiphany Homepage
On 9/9/06, Joachim Noreiko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- Luca Cavalli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 17:33 +0100, Joachim Noreiko > > wrote: > > > > Another option could be to create a > > > > Gnome start page just > > > > for the purpose of using it as home page in > > > > Epiphany. > > > > > > Hmmm... maybe. > > > But don't most distros overwrite that anyway? > > Ubuntu > > > certainly provides a home page (not sure if it > > puts it > > > into Epi as well as Firefox, but logically it > > should). > > > > > > I don't think it's worth the effort of something > > else > > > to maintain on our site. > > > > > > > Well, just because Ubuntu, or any other distro, > > override GNOME defaults, > > it is not a good reason to not have them. This was > > the same for splash > > screen (I can remember a discussion about that a > > couple of releases > > ago). Not all distros overwrite GNOME defaults and > > not all users install > > precompiled packages. GNOME should take care also of > > these users. > > Ciao, > > Have I said before how much I dislike the distro model > and how much difficulty it causes us? ... oh yeah, > nearly every day ;) > > Anyway, yes, point taken. > > Can we simply use a part of the w.g.o site already > planned for in the proposed new structure? > If not, would this home page be something a visitor to > w.g.o can access? ie, is it something we must add to > the structure, or does it remain separate? And what's > a good stable URL? It blows my mind that anyone would think about replacing the most useful homepage on the internet (google) with a page that will be useful to our users *once*, in the *best case* scenario. Now, if someone talked to google about creating something like: http://www.google.com/firefox That might be both useful to our users and good for our marketing. That probably needs to be something discussed carefully with the board before it happens, though. Luis -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Epiphany Homepage
Maybe an Epiphany specific what's new page might be more appropriate. Although the start release page sounds good too. Point is that if a user switches from a distro's default (say Firefox), he'd want to see what this new browser his friend proposed, has to offer. Thats why I suggest something in the form of: http://www.gnome.org/projects/epiphany/whatsnew/ or something, with all the latest epiphany bling bling. On 9/9/06, Luca Cavalli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 17:33 +0100, Joachim Noreiko wrote: > > > Another option could be to create a > > > Gnome start page just > > > for the purpose of using it as home page in > > > Epiphany. > > > > Hmmm... maybe. > > But don't most distros overwrite that anyway? Ubuntu > > certainly provides a home page (not sure if it puts it > > into Epi as well as Firefox, but logically it should). > > > > I don't think it's worth the effort of something else > > to maintain on our site. > > > > Well, just because Ubuntu, or any other distro, override GNOME defaults, > it is not a good reason to not have them. This was the same for splash > screen (I can remember a discussion about that a couple of releases > ago). Not all distros overwrite GNOME defaults and not all users install > precompiled packages. GNOME should take care also of these users. > Ciao, > > Luca > > -- > marketing-list mailing list > marketing-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list > -- Panos Laganakos -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Epiphany Homepage
--- Luca Cavalli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 17:33 +0100, Joachim Noreiko > wrote: > > > Another option could be to create a > > > Gnome start page just > > > for the purpose of using it as home page in > > > Epiphany. > > > > Hmmm... maybe. > > But don't most distros overwrite that anyway? > Ubuntu > > certainly provides a home page (not sure if it > puts it > > into Epi as well as Firefox, but logically it > should). > > > > I don't think it's worth the effort of something > else > > to maintain on our site. > > > > Well, just because Ubuntu, or any other distro, > override GNOME defaults, > it is not a good reason to not have them. This was > the same for splash > screen (I can remember a discussion about that a > couple of releases > ago). Not all distros overwrite GNOME defaults and > not all users install > precompiled packages. GNOME should take care also of > these users. > Ciao, Have I said before how much I dislike the distro model and how much difficulty it causes us? ... oh yeah, nearly every day ;) Anyway, yes, point taken. Can we simply use a part of the w.g.o site already planned for in the proposed new structure? If not, would this home page be something a visitor to w.g.o can access? ie, is it something we must add to the structure, or does it remain separate? And what's a good stable URL? ___ Does your mail provider give you FREE antivirus protection? Get Yahoo! Mail http://uk.mail.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Epiphany Homepage
On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 17:33 +0100, Joachim Noreiko wrote: > > Another option could be to create a > > Gnome start page just > > for the purpose of using it as home page in > > Epiphany. > > Hmmm... maybe. > But don't most distros overwrite that anyway? Ubuntu > certainly provides a home page (not sure if it puts it > into Epi as well as Firefox, but logically it should). > > I don't think it's worth the effort of something else > to maintain on our site. > Well, just because Ubuntu, or any other distro, override GNOME defaults, it is not a good reason to not have them. This was the same for splash screen (I can remember a discussion about that a couple of releases ago). Not all distros overwrite GNOME defaults and not all users install precompiled packages. GNOME should take care also of these users. Ciao, Luca -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Epiphany Homepage
--- Max Jonas Werner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > but there's one thing that irritated me: The > Epiphany home page is > "http://www.google.com"; per default. > > Wouldn't it be better to set it to > "http://www.gnome.org/start/X.YY"; for > every release? No, because that's release notes. As is being pointed out in another thread right now, it's not very user-orientated. > Another option could be to create a > Gnome start page just > for the purpose of using it as home page in > Epiphany. Hmmm... maybe. But don't most distros overwrite that anyway? Ubuntu certainly provides a home page (not sure if it puts it into Epi as well as Firefox, but logically it should). I don't think it's worth the effort of something else to maintain on our site. ___ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Epiphany Homepage
Hi guys, I've just started Gnome 2.16 after 2 days of compiling. :) Looks great but there's one thing that irritated me: The Epiphany home page is "http://www.google.com"; per default. Wouldn't it be better to set it to "http://www.gnome.org/start/X.YY"; for every release? Another option could be to create a Gnome start page just for the purpose of using it as home page in Epiphany. My suggestion probably fits to the discussion regarding user-oriented release notes. Cheers! Max -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: User oriented release notes
Hi :o) I really don't know how to argue this any better, it just seems to be becoming silly. I will simply restate that to effectively promote GNOME through our website, things should be presented in a simple non technical way, technical information being presented in separate sections for those who wish for such information. Things should presented in ways to get potential users interested, as is done on "big company" websites. As previously mentioned, compare and contrast with : http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/index.html Love, Karderio. On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 17:01 +0200, Claus Schwarm wrote: > Hi, > > On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 15:22:15 +0200 > karderio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Perhaps, but in any case we still need to cater for the lowest common > > denominator : grandma :) > > > > Well, as I said previously: Grandma's are never going to read our > release notes, unless their are interested in technical details which > would make this particular class of grandmas enthusiasts. > > This grandma stuff is a myth spread by usability guys without > proper marketing education. ;-) > > > > > Maybe technical details cannot be hidden completely (on the website), > > although I'm not sure why. > > I meant it the other way around: There's no need to hide it. People > who want to deal with Linux today, need to be able to figure out what > 'compiling' means. That's due to the distribution system and the > attitude of too many developers who don't bother about providing > distribution-independent binary packages on their homepages. > > Additionally, if you hide the information, you will just make some > people post it somewhere. That means other peope will have to search > *everywhere* to find this necessary information. > > Do you know how much time I spend searching the web which graphic > processor owners will probably be able to test this Metacity 3D > capabilities? > > The answers is: Too long! ;-) > > You may not noted it but experienced journalists like Steven J. > Vaughan-Nichols picked up what you may consider too technical > information in their coverage, see here: > > http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS6261033378.html > > This tells me that we have done something right. > > > I'll reformulate the problem I see : user > > comes to website, the best, easily accessible, information about GNOME > > is the release notes : talk of complication makes him worried. > > > > Yeah, nice story. ;-) > > But a myth. Nobody will think that the release notes are the most > easily accesible information about GNOME. A real beginner will not even > know what 'Release notes' are! > > The true story goes like this: User comes to GNOME web site, thinks > 'Hey, this stuff sound interesting!', clicks 'download' and then > wonders where the button is to make the download start. > > > > As you say there is a bug :) What is the solution, to make the "about" > > section relevant and make it more prominent than the release notes ? > > > > Currently, the notes use an opt-out solution: "We present a > complete page of irrelevant stuff for 95% of readers, but you can skip > it by clicking here." > > We should use an opt-in procedure: "Here are the great changes or our > new release, and if you have no clue what GNOME is, click here." > > Next time. > > > > > Where ? Is this meant for the website or shipping with a release ? > > > > See yourself. Unfinished version here: > http://www.gnome.org/tour/C/index.html > > > Cheers, > Claus -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: User oriented release notes
Hi, On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 15:22:15 +0200 karderio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Perhaps, but in any case we still need to cater for the lowest common > denominator : grandma :) > Well, as I said previously: Grandma's are never going to read our release notes, unless their are interested in technical details which would make this particular class of grandmas enthusiasts. This grandma stuff is a myth spread by usability guys without proper marketing education. ;-) > > Maybe technical details cannot be hidden completely (on the website), > although I'm not sure why. I meant it the other way around: There's no need to hide it. People who want to deal with Linux today, need to be able to figure out what 'compiling' means. That's due to the distribution system and the attitude of too many developers who don't bother about providing distribution-independent binary packages on their homepages. Additionally, if you hide the information, you will just make some people post it somewhere. That means other peope will have to search *everywhere* to find this necessary information. Do you know how much time I spend searching the web which graphic processor owners will probably be able to test this Metacity 3D capabilities? The answers is: Too long! ;-) You may not noted it but experienced journalists like Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols picked up what you may consider too technical information in their coverage, see here: http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS6261033378.html This tells me that we have done something right. > I'll reformulate the problem I see : user > comes to website, the best, easily accessible, information about GNOME > is the release notes : talk of complication makes him worried. > Yeah, nice story. ;-) But a myth. Nobody will think that the release notes are the most easily accesible information about GNOME. A real beginner will not even know what 'Release notes' are! The true story goes like this: User comes to GNOME web site, thinks 'Hey, this stuff sound interesting!', clicks 'download' and then wonders where the button is to make the download start. > As you say there is a bug :) What is the solution, to make the "about" > section relevant and make it more prominent than the release notes ? > Currently, the notes use an opt-out solution: "We present a complete page of irrelevant stuff for 95% of readers, but you can skip it by clicking here." We should use an opt-in procedure: "Here are the great changes or our new release, and if you have no clue what GNOME is, click here." Next time. > > Where ? Is this meant for the website or shipping with a release ? > See yourself. Unfinished version here: http://www.gnome.org/tour/C/index.html Cheers, Claus -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Page Layout Update
On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 02:32 +0200, karderio wrote: > I certainly wouldn't put planet GNOME feeds on the front page. Users > either won't know what people are talking about, or be confused to the > point of suspecting the site to be compromised when they see a bloke > talking about his last holidays in Spain. I would certainly agree, thinking about some of the posts that have appeared over that last month it wouldn't be cool to have political opinions, or any muthafucking snakes on the muthafuckin GNOME homepage. ;o) -Luke -- -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Page Layout Update
On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 02:32 +0200, karderio wrote: > Hi :o) > > On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 00:33 +0100, Lee Tambiah wrote: > > Please find version 0.1 (.svg format) for the "Secondary Page Layout" on > > the LayoutPlanning page at:- > > > > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/LayoutPlanning > > > > Secondary Page Structure Download > > http://leetambiah.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/downloads/layoutPlanSecondary0.1.svg > > > > We need some comments please take a look. > > Looks good. > > I certainly wouldn't put planet GNOME feeds on the front page. Users > either won't know what people are talking about, or be confused to the > point of suspecting the site to be compromised when they see a bloke > talking about his last holidays in Spain. I concur with your point. How about a section labelled "Developer Blogs" and which contain a handpicked selection of the most interesting blog posts from p.g.o that are directly related to gnome. Maybe this is too much work? Cheers, Rob -- Rob Bradford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: User oriented release notes
Hi :o) On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 13:10 +0200, Claus Schwarm wrote: > Hi, > > On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 02:08:09 +0200 > karderio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > What could take the edge off the buzz a user should be feeling when > > reading about GNOME ? Compilation options is one, links to "technical" > > fd.o standards another, there's the "code cleanups" section... Not to > > say these are bad, I don't mind them one bit - but telling a potential > > user about "compiling" even before he has seen the contraption can > > hardly promote it... > > > > I believe you're making a common error: You think in terms of > developers vs. users. This is misleading. > > Better think of (ordinary) users, enthusiasts, and professionals. Our > notes were written with enthusiasts and professionals in mind. We > ignored ordinary users because they don't read release notes. Never. If > they do, they are already enthusiasts. Perhaps, but in any case we still need to cater for the lowest common denominator : grandma :) > Also note that we cannot hide the technical details of how Linux works. > There's simple no way to prevent a user running into 'compiling' stuff. > This is due to the distribution system of Linux and has nothing to do > with GNOME. > > > The other criticism I could raise is a lack of at least one screenshot > > of the entire GNOME desktop. > > > [snip] > > > > Perhaps the criticisms I have directed at the release notes are not > > meant for them at all. The notes in fact being an excellent interim, > > bolstering the "About GNOME" section, which manages to say piles about > > GNOME's goals without ever saying what it does or what it looks like. > > > > Yes, indeed. The release notes are not the 'About' section of GNOME, > and they should not be. The first page indicates differently but it is > simply a bug. Maybe technical details cannot be hidden completely (on the website), although I'm not sure why. I'll reformulate the problem I see : user comes to website, the best, easily accessible, information about GNOME is the release notes : talk of complication makes him worried. As you say there is a bug :) What is the solution, to make the "about" section relevant and make it more prominent than the release notes ? > We do have screenhots on www.gnome.org -- theoretically, at least. > There's no need to have one in the notes, too. The ones we have just > need to be linked in the 'About' section. Theoretically maybe, the fact is that there are none that can be easily accessed (AFAICS). One shot per version/release notes can't be completely useless, at least serving to make them pretty :) (the macOS release notes Luis mentionned have a very nice shot at the top of them). > Btw, a 'presenting GNOME' section was started two years ago called the > tour. It's nearly finished in CVS but it needs somebody doing > screenshots. (And another one removing this docbook format.) Where ? Is this meant for the website or shipping with a release ? Love, Karderio. -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: User oriented release notes
On 9/9/06, Andreas Nilsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Luis! > Isn't Apples equivalent of our release notes more likely this? > http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/index.html > And yeah, they kick our asses in catchy copy-writing here too :) That is more equivalent, but I guess I'm suggesting that perhaps we should get the first (why should you use us at all?) right before we work very hard on 'why should you use this particular version.' Something to think about, at any rate. Luis > I agree that we're a bit too techy from time to time though, even for > the target audience people-who-reads-computer-magazines. > - Andreas > > > Luis Villa wrote: > > Compare and contrast our notes with: > > http://www.apple.com/getamac/ > > > > (ignore the videos, look at the text, what they are bragging about, etc.) > > Luis > > > > On 9/8/06, karderio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> Hi :o) > >> > >> I just took a second look at the 2.16 release notes[1]. Although they > >> were a very interesting read, on occasion they came over as perhaps a > >> little too technical, leaving maybe the ghost of the impression that > >> GNOME could be a desktop "by devs for devs". > >> > >> Please don't get me wrong, the notes are a fine job, but somehow the > >> buzz the end user should be feeling is missing. > >> > >> What could take the edge off the buzz a user should be feeling when > >> reading about GNOME ? Compilation options is one, links to "technical" > >> fd.o standards another, there's the "code cleanups" section... Not to > >> say these are bad, I don't mind them one bit - but telling a potential > >> user about "compiling" even before he has seen the contraption can > >> hardly promote it... > >> > >> The other criticism I could raise is a lack of at least one screenshot > >> of the entire GNOME desktop. > >> > >> A couple of suggestions I would advance this perceived problem of mine > >> would either be to relegate anything un-soft-and-fluffy to a > >> "developers" section, or create a completely "Presenting GNOME" section > >> elsewhere, full of much appreciated, soft fluffy topics for users. > >> > >> Perhaps the criticisms I have directed at the release notes are not > >> meant for them at all. The notes in fact being an excellent interim, > >> bolstering the "About GNOME" section, which manages to say piles about > >> GNOME's goals without ever saying what it does or what it looks like. > >> > >> Love, Karderio. > >> > >> > >> [1] http://www.gnome.org/start/2.16/notes/C/index.html > >> > >> -- > >> marketing-list mailing list > >> marketing-list@gnome.org > >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list > >> > >> > > -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: User oriented release notes
Hi, On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 02:08:09 +0200 karderio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > What could take the edge off the buzz a user should be feeling when > reading about GNOME ? Compilation options is one, links to "technical" > fd.o standards another, there's the "code cleanups" section... Not to > say these are bad, I don't mind them one bit - but telling a potential > user about "compiling" even before he has seen the contraption can > hardly promote it... > I believe you're making a common error: You think in terms of developers vs. users. This is misleading. Better think of (ordinary) users, enthusiasts, and professionals. Our notes were written with enthusiasts and professionals in mind. We ignored ordinary users because they don't read release notes. Never. If they do, they are already enthusiasts. Also note that we cannot hide the technical details of how Linux works. There's simple no way to prevent a user running into 'compiling' stuff. This is due to the distribution system of Linux and has nothing to do with GNOME. > The other criticism I could raise is a lack of at least one screenshot > of the entire GNOME desktop. > [snip] > > Perhaps the criticisms I have directed at the release notes are not > meant for them at all. The notes in fact being an excellent interim, > bolstering the "About GNOME" section, which manages to say piles about > GNOME's goals without ever saying what it does or what it looks like. > Yes, indeed. The release notes are not the 'About' section of GNOME, and they should not be. The first page indicates differently but it is simply a bug. We do have screenhots on www.gnome.org -- theoretically, at least. There's no need to have one in the notes, too. The ones we have just need to be linked in the 'About' section. Btw, a 'presenting GNOME' section was started two years ago called the tour. It's nearly finished in CVS but it needs somebody doing screenshots. (And another one removing this docbook format.) Cheers, Claus -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: User oriented release notes
Hi Luis! Isn't Apples equivalent of our release notes more likely this? http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/index.html And yeah, they kick our asses in catchy copy-writing here too :) I agree that we're a bit too techy from time to time though, even for the target audience people-who-reads-computer-magazines. - Andreas Luis Villa wrote: > Compare and contrast our notes with: > http://www.apple.com/getamac/ > > (ignore the videos, look at the text, what they are bragging about, etc.) > Luis > > On 9/8/06, karderio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Hi :o) >> >> I just took a second look at the 2.16 release notes[1]. Although they >> were a very interesting read, on occasion they came over as perhaps a >> little too technical, leaving maybe the ghost of the impression that >> GNOME could be a desktop "by devs for devs". >> >> Please don't get me wrong, the notes are a fine job, but somehow the >> buzz the end user should be feeling is missing. >> >> What could take the edge off the buzz a user should be feeling when >> reading about GNOME ? Compilation options is one, links to "technical" >> fd.o standards another, there's the "code cleanups" section... Not to >> say these are bad, I don't mind them one bit - but telling a potential >> user about "compiling" even before he has seen the contraption can >> hardly promote it... >> >> The other criticism I could raise is a lack of at least one screenshot >> of the entire GNOME desktop. >> >> A couple of suggestions I would advance this perceived problem of mine >> would either be to relegate anything un-soft-and-fluffy to a >> "developers" section, or create a completely "Presenting GNOME" section >> elsewhere, full of much appreciated, soft fluffy topics for users. >> >> Perhaps the criticisms I have directed at the release notes are not >> meant for them at all. The notes in fact being an excellent interim, >> bolstering the "About GNOME" section, which manages to say piles about >> GNOME's goals without ever saying what it does or what it looks like. >> >> Love, Karderio. >> >> >> [1] http://www.gnome.org/start/2.16/notes/C/index.html >> >> -- >> marketing-list mailing list >> marketing-list@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list >> >> -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: User oriented release notes
Hi, On Fri, 8 Sep 2006 20:42:04 -0400 "Luis Villa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Compare and contrast our notes with: > http://www.apple.com/getamac/ > > (ignore the videos, look at the text, what they are bragging about, > etc.) Luis > You're comparing apples with oranges. Our release notes should not be a workaround for our ugly 'About' section. This is a bad and useless habit of the GNOME release notes. Cheers, Claus -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
