RE: MD: MD -> CD-R

[Walton Rowell]

Questions in response to Danny-K's response 5/29

About using optical-digital links to get audio into a PC, are there any
optical/TOSLINK to USB adapting boxes?  Or, if you used such a device,
would you run into the same kind of problem ("changing speed
upredictably") that you'd get from inputting straight to a sound card
with an optical input?  The reason I'm interested in USB is because I'm
using an iMac (no expandability with respect to sound cards.)

I know HHB makes that USB connected MD field recorder, but it's priced
for pros ($$$).  Is there another solution?

I'd love to be able to pull files digitally into my Mac's hard drive for
editing/manipulation.  Analog in just seems so unsatisfying and time
consuming...

> what is the best way to take live shows youve recorded on your MD and
> transfer them to a CD-R on your computer? should i invest in a killer
> soundcard or is it a waste of money?

You need a minidisc recorder with digital coax in/out (not to be
confused
with optical).  Coax is best from what people tell me.  And from I've
heard
optical is not desirable for digital PC transfer, and was probably
designed
to hook up to high-end receivers.  As someone on the list recently
described, if the optical in board on your PC does not reclock the
optical
signal, you'll get PC recordings that change speed unpredictably.  And
that's worse than analog.

--
Re-Elect Gore in 2004!


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Re: MD: If MDs had come out before CDs

[Shawn Lin]

las wrote:
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> I just thought about something.  If MDs had come out BEFORE CDs, I wonder if
> CDs would have caught on as well?

Yes, it would have.  CD caught on because it had a significant and
revolutionary difference over any other existing format at the time:
Random Access.  It also had improved sound quality, although I don't
believe that's why the masses flocked to CD.  I'm pretty sure the reason
CD was readily adopted is one of convenience.  Being able to skip from
track to track and NOT have to FFWD or RWD is a huge convenience.  MD
offers that, and if it came before CD, then the tiny 2.5" disc in a
cartridge form-factor would be the standard of today, rather than the
large 12cm open disc.

> What advantages does the CD have over an MD.  If any, the only argument can
> be that it does not use as much compression (any with a limited background in
> recording  will tell you that all recorded music has some compression in it).

Had MD come out before CD, there would probably be an option not use
compression, as we would have some kind of high-density MVD "Mini
Versatile Disc" by now.  The high density MVD could be used for "HDMD"
or "SAMD".  Of course, MVD would also have been used for MVD-Video.

> The fact that HDCDs and such don't seem to be catching on tells me that it is
> NOT improved sound quality that makes people choose the CD over the MD.  OK,
> this is a 180 degree of my prior thinking.

Correct.  People chose CD over MD because CD already had a large
installed userbase.  No prerecorded MD's, that was a biggie, very FEW
people actually like to record.  Also the convenience difference is
negligible to the general population.  I personally think the big open
12cm disc is inconvenient and needlessly fragile, but others would
disagree, citing that the benefits of MD are not worth the additional
cost in both media, hardware, and time to make their own recordings.

> The MD should have been conceived with the possibility of a future MD ROM,
> rather than incompatible and very slow Data MDs.  They should have also made
> the data storage capabilities of the MD greater.  Even if they had to make
> them 2 sided the way floppy discs are.
> 
> Nah!!  140 MB is still more than a ZIP drive.  The fact that Iomega is still
> in business after all of the defective products they threw at the public
> amazes me.  They lost a class action suit big time over none readable Ditto
> tape drives (I think that there were Zips involved too).

I doubt MD-ROM would have caught on unless it was cheaper, and equally
as fast, if not faster than the Zip.  However, it seems to me that as
CD-RW drives are getting faster and faster, and CD-RW discs are getting
cheaper and cheaper, the need for a Zip drive and even floppy drive are
much less.  BUT had MD come out before CD, they probably wouldn't have
ever bothered to come out with a 12cm disc, so CD-ROM wouldn't exist. 
We WOULD have MD-ROM.

> The public seems to find video quality more important (or noticeable) than
> audio.  Look at the way DVDs caught on and are overtaking  VHS (don't give me
> the, "then why didn't Beta make it over VHS because Beta had a better
> picture"?  First off I never found that to be factual and I owned both.
> Second, the video quality was relative to the tape speed and Beta just ddi
> not have enough tape on it to run fast enough to offer a better picture than
> VHS).
> 
> Convenience and familiarity most be factors with DVD too.  People just feel
> comfortable with CDs.  I don't understand it.  You'd think that when they
> introduced DVDs they would have had them in a protective shell (but they
> wanted the players to be compatible with CDs and CD ROMs).

Actually, it's not the video quality of DVD's that's driving the masses
to DVD.  I believe it's mainly the convenience factor, the same reason
CD caught on in the first place.  The CD form factor that DVD uses, is
FAR more portable than gigantic VHS tapes.  Rewinding takes forever, so
long that some people bought standalone VHS rewinders.  DVD brought
random access convenience to video, something we never had before. 
That's why DVD is catching on.  I know many people don't care about the
video quality so much, because I have an Apex DVD player page at
http://Psych.tripod.com/apexdvdplayers/index.html and I get a TON of
email.  Many people tell me they have old TV's with no composite video
inputs, and they want to run the DVD player through their VCR's RF
modulator.  Just the fact that these people are sticking to their old
TV's and wanting to run the video and sound output through their VCRs
tells me video quality isn't a #1 priority.

> MD has IMHO already peaked in the US (not much of a peak at that) and will be
> around for a long time (thanks to the internet and international means of
> obtaining MD from Japan I guess Sony feels that there is still enough of a
> market to offer a limited number of models in the US and introduce some of
> the newer technologies (like LP

Re: MD: Sony MDX-C670

[Shawn Lin]

  ===
  = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please  =
  = be more selective when quoting text =
  ===

Dan Irwin wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>  I found a Sony MDX-C670 for sale for $100.  I've been looking for
> a cheap car MD unit for a while and was wondering if anyone has any
> opinions on it.  Aside from one lengthy article linked from minidisc.org,
> I've found nothing on this unit.  The unit I found is in perfect working
> order, but the faceplate remove button is missing.
> 
>  Just looking for opinions on this unit, or a suggestion on another
> that I might find for under $150.
> 
> Thanks in advance.

Sounds pretty cheap to me.  I think it was originally $300, maybe more.
You can buy a new remove button from Sony Parts, 1-800-488-7669.

Shawn
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MD: DCC info.

[Churchill, Guy]

las [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: 

> And compared to the DCC the Md is a huge success.  Although it is possible
that
> there is a DCC-list like the MD-list on the net, I kind of doubt it.

There was/is a list at http://www.lightlink.com/drogers/DCC-L/ I don't know 
if it's still active .. anyone care to join it .

> At least we can still buy blanks and there is still the occasional new
unit and
> advance taking place in MDs.  

The blanks issue is a problem for DCC, although with a drill press and a
careful
eye/hand, you can turn a normal chrome compact cassette into a DCC.

Cheers   GuyC

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Re: MD: If MDs had come out before CDs

[las]

Stuart Howlette wrote:

> And minidiscs were set to replace tapes. Its all a little thing called
> marketing and bureacracy, you better learn that, nothing ever achieves its
> expectations in the format wars.
>

Actually the original history of MDs indicate that they were originally marketed
as a replacement for the CD.  There were big posters, back then, of Michael
Jackson and all kinds of prerecorded MDs that were never actually available for
sale in the stores ("they could order them for you").

Sometimes in spite of the electronics industry trying to push you in a certain
direction (the same can be applied to any consumer item from clothing to decor
colors) the public actually rejects their proposals.

Many people insist that the quality of Beta is better than VHS, but VHS won.

Have you ever noticed that starting in the mid 80's suddenly everything was gray
and mauve with maybe a little teal thrown in.  Well for about the past 10 years
before that it was earth tones.

When they came out with black faced audio components, they really caught on.
Suddenly no more brushed aluminum or gold and no brightly light gold back
lighting).  They they tried to bring back the bright back lighting and do away
with black.

But whether it was the public that rejected it or the industry that reverted, in
a short time it was back to black components (and not wood trim-either real or
fake-in the case).

In the 70's dark wood trim was in.  Even speakers were usually walnut.  Then oak
suddenly took over.  Go into a new house or office building.  I'll bet you
almost always see oak trim.  Now check out an older building that has ot be
renovated.  American walnut.

Many factors hurt MD's growth.  For one thing they released it too soon so that
they could compete with Phillips DCC (which was supported by Radio Shack).  Home
DATs have never caught on.  I've never seen anyone one walking around with a
DATman.

And compared to the DCC the Md is a huge success.  Although it is possible that
there is a DCC-list like the MD-list on the net, I kind of doubt it.

At least we can still buy blanks and there is still the occasional new unit and
advance taking place in MDs.  But Americans seem to love solid state.  I can
find no other reason for the success of crap like the Rio.

We now have 3 competing non compatible solid state storage media, compact flash,
smart cards and Sony's The Stick (which I'd like to tell them where they can
stick it).  I suspect that the actual memory in all of these is similar and that
it is only the physical characteristics of the case and pin arrangement that
differ.

If they can sell portable CD recorders for $15 (actual ad in my Sunday paper) I
find it hard to believe that they can't mass produce solid state memory for
about a dollar a Gig.

You can buy a VHS tape for less than a dollar!  They seem to be a lot more
complex and the cost of the raw materials has to cost more than a memory chip.

Larry

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Re: MD: If MDs had come out before CDs

[las]

Marc Britten wrote:

> maybe the bat has to take a long horizontal tunnel to get out of hell before it can 
>rise.
>

Yeah!!!  Think about it.  You associate bats with evil, Satan, vampires etc.  So it 
only
stands to reason that bats like hell!  Now if bats like hell, they wound not be in any 
hurry
to get out of there.

How about, "like a horny teenage boy out of Jennifer Lopez".  That ain't going to 
happen.
They'll have to pry him away with a crow bar!  It certainly wouldn't be an expression 
that
you would use to describe speed .

Larry

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Re: MD: If MDs had come out before CDs

[las]

Danny-K wrote:

>
> Some people claim that a good and new vinyl pressing carries base better.

That may be true but there is no auditory characteristic "base" so having better
"base" would not mean that it sounds better (hey I'm the dyslexic here!!)

> Let us not forget that digital is in essence trying to achieve a wave that
> it never can.  I don't know if the issue is MD trying to match CD, or CD
> trying to replicate analog sound.

That is true.  But the way that a wave is stored in analog is pretty crude too.
Taking a wave (which is something physical) and trying to store it by
arrangement of oxide particles and then by transforming that into groves on a
piece of plastic.

Larry

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MD: pcm decks

[Brent Harding]

Are there any good PCM decks still being made, preferably that work with
VHS, have a built-in mechanism to put the tape in, and have the ability to
have track markers that one can find easily?


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RE: MD: If MDs had come out before CDs

[Danny-K]

> I can't even listen to cassettes, they sound so bad to me.  When
> I go back and
> put on a vinyl record, I realize just how bad they actually
> sounded.  If CDs
> have a "hard edge" blame the recording producer, not the medium.
>
> What sounds good is all relative.  How many times have I been
> stuck at a light
> and a car pulls up next to me where the bass is so strong and the
> volume should
> that it actually causes my car to shake!
>
> But to those dudes in that car it is heaven.
>

Some people claim that a good and new vinyl pressing carries base better.
Let us not forget that digital is in essence trying to achieve a wave that
it never can.  I don't know if the issue is MD trying to match CD, or CD
trying to replicate analog sound.  Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of CDs
and they're so much better than tape.  But have you listened to some of your
older CDs?  They sound pretty bad now because mastering and D/A converter
technology were very young then.

Good needles, and a good pressing can go a long way--specially on a powerful
sound system.  But then again almost all recording media are digital anyway
so maybe it doesn't matter.

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Re: MD: Sony MZ-R70 for sale

[J. Coon]

I dopn't know about you, but I like to see active links.



Hope it works.


Fabrizio Minelli wrote:
> 
> I am selling a Sony MZ-R70 Silver on EBAY,used only 6 hours,no PCLink.
> ITEM#1241332331.Still original box and paper + 6 blank midiscs.
> 
> thank you
> _
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> 
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--
Jim Coon
Not just another pretty mandolin picker.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If Gibson made cars, would they sound so sweet?

My first web page  

http://www.tir.com/~liteways
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MD: Sony MDX-C670

[Dan Irwin]

Hi all,
 I found a Sony MDX-C670 for sale for $100.  I've been looking for 
a cheap car MD unit for a while and was wondering if anyone has any 
opinions on it.  Aside from one lengthy article linked from minidisc.org, 
I've found nothing on this unit.  The unit I found is in perfect working 
order, but the faceplate remove button is missing.

 Just looking for opinions on this unit, or a suggestion on another 
that I might find for under $150.

Thanks in advance.

Dan Irwin

You can kill the revolutionary, but you can't kill the revolution.

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MD: Sony MZ-R70 for sale

[Fabrizio Minelli]

I am selling a Sony MZ-R70 Silver on EBAY,used only 6 hours,no PCLink.
ITEM#1241332331.Still original box and paper + 6 blank midiscs.

thank you
_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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Re: MD: If MDs had come out before CDs

[Marc Britten]

maybe the bat has to take a long horizontal tunnel to get out of hell before it can 
rise.



On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 10:07:18PM -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> 
> Sure.  I never said its growth in the past two years wasn't anything but
> fast.  "Bat out of Hell" implies a meteoric rise that simply did not happen
> and is not happening now.  Portable MP3's adoption rate is meteoric, the
> "bat out of Hell" that Matt is talking about.
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Re: MD: If MDs had come out before CDs

[Stuart Howlette]

This email was delivered to you by The Free Internet,
a Business Online Group company. http://www.thefreeinternet.net
---
> * "Matt Wall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  on Tue, 29 May 2001
> | I disagree 110%, compared to vhs/beta/HDTV/dang near any new product
> | projections DVD did take off like a bat out of hell.
>
> DVD-Video has been around for about five years now.  Its growth has mostly
> been in the past two years.  In its first two years of existence,
DVD-Video
> came >< close to failing outright.  The media was expensive and
unreliable,
> the players moreso, and the selection of titles microscopic.  And even
> though its growth in the past two years has been rapid, it has been very
> steady, not explosive.  And it is still well behind its initial
> projections, which had DVD-Video completely replacing consumer VHS by the
> end of last year.

And minidiscs were set to replace tapes. Its all a little thing called
marketing and bureacracy, you better learn that, nothing ever achieves its
expectations in the format wars.

Stuart Howlette


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RE: MD: MD --> CD-R

[Tony Antoniou]

Nothing wrong with optical if the card is made by a reputable manufacturer.
My Turtle Beach Fiji is coax as optical was a luxury found in even more
expensive cards like the Zefiro, but the TB Montego is optical as are more
and more cards these days. Either way, not a problem.


Adios,
LarZ

---  TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums  ---

 -Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]  On Behalf
Of Danny-K
Sent:   Wednesday, 30 May 2001 9:51
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:RE: MD: MD --> CD-R

You need a minidisc recorder with digital coax in/out (not to be confused
with optical).  Coax is best from what people tell me.  And from I've heard
optical is not desirable for digital PC transfer, and was probably designed
to hook up to high-end receivers.  As someone on the list recently
described, if the optical in board on your PC does not reclock the optical
signal, you'll get PC recordings that change speed unpredictably.  And
that's worse than analog.


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RE: MD: MD --> CD-R

[Tony Antoniou]

If you're a stickler for quality like I am, then you'll want a soundcard
with digital I/O. That doesn't mean you need to pay megabucks for a good
card, unless you also want a card that has an excellent DA converter for
listening to any post-production work you actually perform on your WAV's
before recording to CD.

I use a Turtlebeach Fiji with Digital I/O. Excellent price, and excellent
sound to boot. It's one of the most accurate soundcards I've had the
pleasure of working with and was well worth the $400 I spent on it 3 years
back.

As for Sony's USB connection, in terms of sonic quality it's every bit the
same as transferring digitally via the S/PDIF format. Either way, you cannot
go wrong when you're going digital. If the quality of the recording wasn't
the best to begin with, then you may as well just go anaogue instead.


Adios,
LarZ

---  TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums  ---

 -Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]  On Behalf
Of kip martin
Sent:   Wednesday, 30 May 2001 2:56
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:MD: MD --> CD-R


hi

what is the best way to take live shows youve recorded on your MD and
transfer them to a CD-R on your computer? should i invest in a killer
soundcard or is it a waste of money? is it ok to just go mini-to-mini with
the CD-RW? is there a reasonably priced MD component that allows for digital
output to a burner?

also, what benefit do i get with the sony USB connection in terms of sonic
quality?

i tried the archives but they are SO hard to navigate with respect to this
question.


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MD: . MD-Sony complaints

[Danny-K]

> Which was exactly my arguement, availability, thats why
> MiniDisc's aren't as
> popular as CD's, prerecorded ones are in the majority hard to
> find, and you
> find an average consumer who wants to wait up to 80 minutes to listen to
> some music on their portable
>

This is true too.  If Sony would introduce 4-8X combo CD-player MD recorder
at cheap prices, it might ignite a minidisc fire.  But they probably think
that might lessen their brand name.  But I think it would be a good start
and might up sales of their upper-level models as well.

I showed my MD player to an old boss at work once, and the first question he
asked was if you could buy pre-recorded music.  Sony needs to either price
this medium low enough for teenagers to buy, or get better pre-recorder MD
coverage.  Older people are usually too busy to take on another format, one
that's pretty much blank digital tape at that.

In other news, I was cleaning out some boxes the other day and found an old
magazine with a DCC advert in it.  haha.  MD has a lot of life in it still.
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