Re: MD: Recording from SACD
On Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 05:14:21PM -0500, las wrote: > > Bob Willcox wrote: > > > You can record from a SACD in analog only. The current crop of SACD > > players don't have digital output (when playing SACDs). (May never, > > given the recording industries copyright fears.) They would require a > > converter to convert the DSD data stream into PCM in order to record on > > a PCM device (such as MD). > > > > Or if DSD is really so superior to PCM, the recorders would have to be capable of > "reading" DSD. Assuming for the moment that DSD (which I have never heard, so I > can't give an opinion about it's relative audio quality) is noticeably superior to > PCM, it would not make sense to convert "down" to PCM. Probably makes more sense than to convert it to analog only to convert it back to PCM. From what Sony claims, the conversion from DSD to PCM is easy. It's just that they don't provide that feature in their SACD players. Bob -- Bob Willcox The reason we come up with new versions is not to [EMAIL PROTECTED]fix bugs. It's absolutely not. Austin, TX -- Bill Gates - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Recording from SACD
On Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 04:50:59PM -0500, Phat Ha wrote: > > Hey, has anyone ever recorded from SACD? What were the results? Can you copy > digitally, and if so, what kind SCMS-type crap do you have to circumvent? You can record from a SACD in analog only. The current crop of SACD players don't have digital output (when playing SACDs). (May never, given the recording industries copyright fears.) They would require a converter to convert the DSD data stream into PCM in order to record on a PCM device (such as MD). Bob -- Bob Willcox The reason we come up with new versions is not to [EMAIL PROTECTED]fix bugs. It's absolutely not. Austin, TX -- Bill Gates - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: what is an SACD?
On Sun, Jan 28, 2001 at 01:35:00PM -0800, Don Capps wrote: > > From: "Matthew Bullis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > I noticed this as a format that you can buy on CDNow.com for some albums. > What is this format? Thanks a lot. > > SACD = Super Audio Compact Disc. It's a new high bitrate (24 bit word > lengths) CD format developed by Sony. No, DSD does not use PCM encoded. Its a single bit encoding at 2.8224 MHz. Consequently it doesn't have a "word" length. It can, though, be easily converted into any of the common PCM formats. Bob -- Bob Willcox The reason we come up with new versions is not to [EMAIL PROTECTED]fix bugs. It's absolutely not. Austin, TX -- Bill Gates - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: what is an SACD?
On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 09:35:01AM -0600, Francisco J. Huerta wrote: > > Uhm... don't think so. HDCD CDs are pseudo 20-bit encoded recordings, which, > at least to my ears, don't sound any better than a standard CD (and the DCC > and MoFi remastered CDs sound a lot better to me than HDCDs, too!). SACDs > are a totally different animal, they don't use PCM, but rather a technique > known as Direct Stream Digital. The frequency they work at is 1MHz. I believe the sampling frequency of DSD is 2.88224 MHz (64 * 44.1KHz). Bob -- Bob Willcox The reason we come up with new versions is not to [EMAIL PROTECTED]fix bugs. It's absolutely not. Austin, TX -- Bill Gates - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Subwoofer out
On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 12:14:52AM -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote: > > * las <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Sat, 06 Jan 2001 > | Actually, if you are saying what i think you are, having a separate left > | and right subwoofer, in spite of the commonly held theory, sounds > | different (if the channel separation is high and the speakers are placed > | far enough away) than a single subwoofer. > > Do you know why it is a commonly held fact -- not theory? Because human > perception cannot locate the source of low frequency sounds such as those > from subwoofers. Stereo separation is pointless because you cannot hear > the separate channels as separate channels. Though I am not disputing the fact that humans can't pinpoint where low frequencies originate from, I believe that using two subwoofers with a stereo signal is preferable (if your amp and wallet can support it). I could definitely tell the difference when I switched from a single mono subwoofer to two subwoofer's driven in stereo on my main system. The feeling I got was one of overall better bass balance in the room. Bob -- Bob Willcox There's a long-standing bug relating to the x86 [EMAIL PROTECTED] architecture that allows you to install Windows. Austin, TX -- Matthew D. Fuller - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SACD? Any chance for survival?
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 11:20:11AM +0100, Kai Rode wrote: > > >However the huge bonus of SACD is that you can have a convential CD-Audio > >layer on the disc which _will_ play in regular CD players. That is what > >will sell the format (if at all) to the public. > > Yes, you can have that layer. But this feature is not used at the moment > because: > > - it makes the discs more expensive > - as long as the same music is available as CD much cheaper, nobody > is going to buy the SACD just because he might upgrade in a few years All of the Telarc SACD discs have the CD compatible layer (are hybrid discs). The Delos disc I have is hybrid and it appears that all of the DMP discs are also. In fact, from what I can tell, Sony is the only manufacturer not making hybrid SACDs. > > >It's something that could be an enhanced feature of regular CDs (looking at > >it from the other perspective), so if they were cheap enough to make then > >all future releases could be SACD with the CD layer > > Think like somebody from the marketing department: it must never be > the price of a regular CD because it's higher quality. So they *have* > to also make it as a regular CD because many people won't buy it at > the higher price. This is certainly a possibility, but at least SACD offers the potential of compatible discs with existing CD players. With DVD-Audio you don't even have that. > > >Of the two though, SACD is the obvious one to back - the players are here > >now and reasonably priced, and the backwards compatibility will mean people > >will be more willing to invest in the music for it. DVD-A only has the > >strength of the DVD name - everyone will assume they can play them on their > >DVD-Video player and be very disappointed when they can't. > > Uhm, I only have two Audio-DVDs and both *are* DVD-Video compatible. > The recordings are in 192/24/2ch or 96/24/5ch and the same recordings > are on the disc as 96/24/2ch/LPCM or Dolby Digital for backwards > compatibility. As a matter of fact, I only have a DVD-Video player > and the DVD-As play just fine. Are you saying that the higher-resolution versions play on your DVD-Video player or the Dolby Digital version? If its the higher resolution versions (the 192/24/2ch or 96/24/5ch) then that really surprises me as I thought that wouldn't be compatible (I own no DVD-Audio discs myself). > > So it looks like they are not aiming for compatibility with CD but > for compatibility with DVD-Video, which is just fine. For DVD-Audio discs to be compatible with DVD-Video players sounds like a good thing. However, if only to the extent that they include a Dolby Digital track then I'm not nearly so interested. For me personally, I find that the sound quality of Dolby Digital is not nearly as acceptable without accompanying video (I think I pay closer attention to sound when not distracted by video). I currently own a Sony SCD-1 SACD player and about 40 SACD's and, overall, have been very pleased with SACD. Some of the discs I own are truely superb sounding. Bob -- Bob Willcox Living your life is a task so difficult, [EMAIL PROTECTED] it has never been attempted before. Austin, TX -- anonymous - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Yamaha MD components??
On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 08:39:52AM -0600, Scott Summers wrote: > > I am looking for a new component MD unit to replace my dead Sony 320. Is > anyone aware of Yamaha units that are still available anywhere. A Yamaha rep > told me they no longer manufacture a unit for the US market. Thanks much for > all of your help. > > My Sony 320 was a piece of junk from day one and am looking for a brand that > actually makes a quality MD unit (Are there any?). Have you considered any of the better (well, more expensive anyway) Sony units? I have owned quite a large number of Sony MD units over the years, and the mid- to high-end ones have been fine. I currently own and am using 4 JB920's, 1 JB930, 1 JB630, 1 JA30ES, and 1 JA50ES. These are all working fine. I also have owned several JE500's and JE510's, all of which were pretty unreliable and are for the most part no longer in service. Bob -- Bob Willcox Living your life is a task so difficult, [EMAIL PROTECTED] it has never been attempted before. Austin, TX -- anonymous - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SACD? Any chance for survival?
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 10:51:08PM -, Dave Hooper wrote: > > I though Super Audio CDs had multiple layers, one of which was totally > compatible with current players? Only the Hybrid discs have both CD and SACD layers. > Which I suppose means SACDs effectively > have the music recorded on them twice, one layer dedicated for backwards > compatibility and the other encoded at 32bit 2MHz or something crazy. Digital Stream Data (DSD), the underlying encoding format on SACDs is actually 1-bit/2.8224 MHz. This is a format that originally Sony developed for archiving its analog masters, as I understand it. Both Sony and Philips are backing the SACD format. As I mentioned above, not all SACDs are backward compatible with CD. The ones that are are called SACD-Hybrid (these have the dual layer, the others are single layer). So far, I don't think Sony has released _any_ SACD-Hybrid (they've all been strictly SACD), though Telarc, Delos, Audioquest, DMP, and I suspect others have (I know for a fact that all of the Telarc discs are Hybrid). I own a Sony SCD-1 and am quite pleased with it. I do believe that there is an improvement in clarity vs. standard CDs, but the difference is generally quite subtle and requires pretty good equipment to be noticed at all (I would guess, since I have never moved my SCD-1 to a system other than my primary one). My concern for the format (and for DVD-A as well) is that obviously most people either can't hear or don't care about the difference between MP3 and CD, let alone CD and SACD (just look at MP3 popularity). Sigh... Bob > > Dave > > - Original Message - > From: "Rodney Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 10:38 PM > Subject: Re: MD: SACD? Any chance for survival? > > > > > > SACD=Super Audio CD, a new supposedly superior (and of course > > incompatble with current CD players) audio format from Sony. > > > > - > > To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word > > "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > --------- > To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word > "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Bob Willcox Living your life is a task so difficult, [EMAIL PROTECTED] it has never been attempted before. Austin, TX -- anonymous - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Whats Up With Circuit City?
On Thu, Apr 06, 2000 at 12:15:46PM -0500, Shawn R. Lin wrote: > I have been told by more than > one owner of a Nakamichi Dragon (world's most expensive tape deck?) that > the MDS-JE510 (the big seller at the time I was told this) easily > outperforms it! As one owner of a Nakamichi Dragon I must agree. All of my Minidisc decks (JE510 through JA50ES) outperform it. Not to mention the ease of use issues (the Dragon is _not_ easy to use). I almost never use the Dragon anymore. > And what's this "you will hear some minor degradation if you listen > closely"? I think most people can't hear a difference, and I think the > vast majority of "audiophiles" that say they can, can also see the > emperor's new clothes. > Sounds like CC (or someone working for them) is obviously anti-MD. I > guess that explains why the selection of MD equipment in their stores is > so miniscule (or non-existent in the case of the local CC). But then I _never_ go into Circuit City anymore either... Bob -- Bob Willcox Shaw's Principle: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Build a system that even a fool can use, Austin, TXand only a fool will want to use it. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Circuit City Responds
On Mon, Apr 10, 2000 at 11:46:43AM -0700, Dan Frakes wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >I don't know who's listening for you, but there is no tape in > >existance that can compare favorably to MD. > > If you ever have a chance, listen to a Nakamichi Dragon deck with $25 > blanks. I guarantee you'll hear a tape that sounds better than MD. As the long-time owner of a Dragon, I disagree with this statement. > > Of course, it's still a cassette, though ;-) And suffers severly for it! -- Bob Willcox Shaw's Principle: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Build a system that even a fool can use, Austin, TXand only a fool will want to use it. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MXD-D3 Read Errors
On Sat, Dec 18, 1999 at 08:41:03PM -0600, Daryl O. wrote: > > Has anyone else experienced the same problem with his MXD-D3?. I hope that > I would not have to return it, because I'm getting terribly frustrated with > Sony. I don't want to ever buy another crappy Sony product AGAIN!! My MXD-D3 plays discs from my other players (JA-50ES, JA-20ES, JB-930, JB-920, JE-630, etc.) Just fine. I'd take your MXD-D3 back for (yet another) relpacement. Bob -- Bob Willcox Don't tell me that worry doesn't do any good. [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know better. The things I worry about don't Austin, TX happen. -- Watchman Examiner - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: MXD-D3 and CD-TEXT from recorded CDRs
I recently purchased a Sony MXD-D3 and in trying out various things with it I noticed that when I copied a CDR that I had recorded on my computer with the cdrdao program that had CD-TEXT on it that the MXD-D3 would not copy the CD-TEXT (it flashed a message "Text Protected" at the start of each track). I then copied the original prerecorded CD and it successfully copied the CD-TEXT as well. Note that the user manual for the MXD-D3 does mention that some CDs may have copy protected CD-TEXT. Has anyone else seent this behavior? Is there some paramater or flag to the cdrdao program to tell it to allow copying of the CD-TEXT on the recorded CDR? BTW, I am using cdrdao version 1.1.3 running on a FreeBSD 3.3-stable system. My CD recorder is a Sony CDU948S. Thanks, Bob -- Bob Willcox Don't tell me that worry doesn't do any good. [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know better. The things I worry about don't Austin, TX happen. -- Watchman Examiner - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Looking for the right MD Deck.
On Fri, Dec 03, 1999 at 10:35:25AM -0500, Jerry Jelinek wrote: > > brent harding <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >Any decks with multiple analog inputs?... > > I'm not aware of any with multiple analog inputs. For switching of > multiple analog sources, I'd go to Radio Shack and get an analog A-B > switcher for stereo switching. > > If you want multiple digital inputs, Sony has them. My JB920 has 2 coax > digital and 1 optical digital inputs. It also has optical and coax > digital outputs. Actually, the JB920 (US version, anyway) has two optical and one coax digital inputs. Bob -- Bob Willcox Don't tell me that worry doesn't do any good. [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know better. The things I worry about don't Austin, TX happen. -- Watchman Examiner - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: RE:Sony Dropping MD
On Tue, Oct 26, 1999 at 02:05:09PM +0100, Magic wrote: > > From: Keith Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 10:30 AM > Subject: RE:MD: Sony Dropping MD > > > > > > Hey I'd think about dropping MD if the cost of solid state media dropped > to > > below 2UKP per hundred meg instead of circa 60UKP for 50mb. > > > > Check again. The "Memory Price Rocket" as I decided to call it means that > 64Mb of RAM now costs a whopping £150! So much for memory prices falling > rapidly - it's going to take quite a few months for the industry to recover > back to the way it was only last month, I would say it will be well into > 2005 at least before solid state storage becomes a viable alternative. This reminds me of the persistent RAM (CCD, bubble, flash, etc.) vs. Disk technology wars in the computer industry. Since 1978 (at least) there have been the constant predictions that disk drives would be made obsolete due to some new RAM technology. Well, for the last 20 years that I've been watching its not happened yet. I believe you'll find that price has always been the major factor. I am beginning to doubt that it will ever happen in the computer industry with disk drives (IBM recently announced a 72GB disk!). The audio industry may go the same way. Bob -- Bob Willcox Don't tell me that worry doesn't do any good. [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know better. The things I worry about don't Austin, TX happen. -- Watchman Examiner - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: CD-R / CD-RW
This makes about as much sense to me as most clueless repairmen do. I really don't see how a scratched disc would damage a CD player. There is no contact with the disc (except in the center where it is clamped). Bob On Sun, Oct 24, 1999 at 11:19:57PM -0400, J. Coon wrote: > > This is from another list. Does it make sense to anyone? or was the > repairman just pulling the guy's leg? > Bill wrote: > > > > Anyone with experience with these drives have any problems with the > > created discs damaging normal CD players (as opposed to CD-ROMs)? A > > friend of mine says he had to have his CD player repaired recently and > > the repairman asked if he'd been using either any badly scratched discs > > or homemade discs. He had been listening to a homebrew disc, so said > > yes. The repairman said that that was the cause of his problem. I have > > never heard this and question how this could be. Any comments? > > > > Bill -- Bob Willcox Don't tell me that worry doesn't do any good. [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know better. The things I worry about don't Austin, TX happen. -- Watchman Examiner - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Pure marketing hype from Sony
On Fri, Oct 01, 1999 at 08:01:36AM -0400, J. Coon wrote: > > When I was about 17, I could hear the high voltage flyback transformer > whine in a televison set. If I remember correctly that is about 18khz, > and the technical book I was reading at the time said it was inaudible > to most people, but some with very good hearing would be able to hear > it. That was back in the 50's, I haven't listened for the sound > lately, and I am not sure if the transistorized ones are as loud as the > old tube type sets they had back then. In spite of my better judgement, I will continue this thread anyway. :-) I too, when younger, could hear fly-back transformers (they're just under 16KHz) as well as the ultra-sonic motion sensers in jewelry stores. Alas, that was over 30 years ago now and I am no longer bothered by such sounds. :-( Bob -- Bob Willcox Don't tell me that worry doesn't do any good. [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know better. The things I worry about don't Austin, TX happen. -- Watchman Examiner - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MDS-JB920 Disc Error msg on insertion of MD
On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 04:59:40PM +0100, Scott, Tony wrote: > > Bob, > > On [EMAIL PROTECTED], Bob Willcox[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > > > I have a new Sony MDS-JB920 that occasionally will spit out a just > > inserted disc with a C13 Disc Error message (happens immediately). If > > I re-insert the disc it will usually (sometimes it takes several trys) > > then take it ok. > > > > Is this a known problem? Should I, perhaps, exchange it for another? > > This was discussed a while back. It has been noticed on both 520s and 920s > (including my 520). > > It's not as bad as it seems though. I seem to remember that we pretty well > worked out that it occurs on new discs, where the tension in the sliding > cover is a little to high. Once the disc has been successfully inserted it > is usually trouble free. From my experience it occurs in batches and has > occurred with various brands. Giving the slider a little jiggle on all new > discs before insertion solves the problem a lot of the time. > > I don't know if the 930 is as sensitive as the 920 in this respect, but if > you can wangle it, I'd swap it anyway - the 930 has a newer ATRAC and a PC > keyboard socket :-) Well, it has so far only occured on my 920 with a few *new* Maxell disks. If it doesn't get any worse that'll be fine. Exchanging the 920 for a 930 would be cool, but the 920 was bought at the Sony Factory Outlet in San Marcos, TX and they don't have any 930s :-( I wouldn't mind the keyboard interface (I also own a 630 which has the keyboard interface and that is where I do all of my MD titling :-) Thanks to all who replied to this thread. I really appreciate the advice/info. Bob -- Bob Willcox Don't tell me that worry doesn't do any good. [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know better. The things I worry about don't Austin, TX happen. -- Watchman Examiner - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Pure marketing hype from Sony
On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 03:20:25PM +0200, Ralph Smeets wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >From my memory (its been years since I actually *knew* any of this), > > the CD error correction system is two level. First, it does error > > correction and can precisely reconstruct the data if the errors are > > within some threshold (similar to MD, I suppose). Its only if the error > > correction fails that it will then "guess" (interpolate) at the signal. > > You're correct here. But the error correction system only accepts single bit > errors... > Ie, guessing mode is entered very quicly. (A dust particle is sufficient!) This could well be so, last I remember reading about this stuff was in the early-to-mid 80's (while CD was still quite new). Could you point me to any on-line info on the subject (I'd like to dust-off the cobwebs)? > > > > the error-correction system in a MD-player is based on storing > > > extra data that makes it possible to reconstruct excactly the original > > > signal! This is where MD is far superior). > > > > I am not familiar with the MD error correction system, but I'm quite > > certain that CDs do this as well as stated above (though perhaps not as > > well as MD, afterall, MD is about a 10-year new technology). > > > > AFAIK, the ATRAC error correction takes place before 'decompression'. If > I understood the IEEE-ATRAC document correctly (Eric please help me out), > MD has no guessing mode. Ie, It can either correct the error or you get > a moment without sound. It makes sense the the error correction would occur first. Certainly seems that you would want an error-free signal to decompress. In fact, I would guess that errors that made it through would royally screw up the decompression. Also, wouldn't surprise me that they were forced to make the error correction more robust than audio CD's partly (at least) for this reason. (Also, it seems likely that interpolation of missing parts, like they do with CD, would work either.) -- Bob Willcox Don't tell me that worry doesn't do any good. [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know better. The things I worry about don't Austin, TX happen. -- Watchman Examiner - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Pure marketing hype from Sony
On Mon, Sep 27, 1999 at 10:26:46AM +0200, Ralph Smeets wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > But what the accuracy of the data comes down to is that whilst the error > > correction my cause the errors on the discs, etc to be unnoticable, it is > > still ony the machine's best guess as to what should be there, so it isn't > > exactly what the original should sound like. It may only be the difference > > that a fanatic audiophile or experienced engineer may notice but it is still > > there. > > Wrong, > > as long as the Block Error Rate stays bellow 220 errors a second (Thanks Eric > Woudenberg for the correction ;-) ), the ATRAC-DSP will be able to recon- > struct the data as it was. Ie, There will be absolutely no difference. (Don't > compare MD with CD. The error correction system in a CD-player is bassed on > guessing, >From my memory (its been years since I actually *knew* any of this), the CD error correction system is two level. First, it does error correction and can precisely reconstruct the data if the errors are within some threshold (similar to MD, I suppose). Its only if the error correction fails that it will then "guess" (interpolate) at the signal. > the error-correction system in a MD-player is based on storing > extra data that makes it possible to reconstruct excactly the original > signal! This is where MD is far superior). I am not familiar with the MD error correction system, but I'm quite certain that CDs do this as well as stated above (though perhaps not as well as MD, afterall, MD is about a 10-year new technology). Bob -- Bob Willcox Don't tell me that worry doesn't do any good. [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know better. The things I worry about don't Austin, TX happen. -- Watchman Examiner - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
