RE: MD: SCMS question
=BEGIN QUOTE= Last night I made a compilation CD on a Pioneer twin deck recorder for a mate of mine, using a number of Minidisc tracks. The first few were ANALOGUE copies of MD's as the MD's were digital copies of the original CD. The last few were digital copies (bringing my Sony MZ-1 out of retirement and using its digital output to feed into the CD deck! I KNEW it would come in useful one day!), as the source was an MD recording of an analogue tape Once having compiled this I thought 'Hmmm, I'll make a copy of this for myself', and put the new CD (a mixture of analogue and digital tracks) into the CD recorder, and managed to copy it all to a blank CD. My question is because the first few tracks were analogue copies of the MD, the burner was quite happy to record these, but I was surprised the last few were allowed as these were digital copies of the MD. When does the SCMS check get done? At the start of the disc or at the start of each track? If its the start of the disc, the analogue tracks seem to have let the digital ones slip through. The only alternative I can think of is that the CD recorder switched to an analogue copy for the last few tracks? ===END QUOTE I would suspect that the Pioneer, like most twin-deck audio CD burners, would use SCMS-driven analogue routing. This means that if the tracks on the original CD are marked SCMS-final, the unit would route the signal through an internal analogue bus. The reason that this practice is common and able to be done is that a lot of these units have dual DACs - one for each transport. This also allows for the unit to be treated as two CD players -- useful for music stores, mixing and the like. With regards, Simon Mackay - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS question
Last night I made a compilation CD on a Pioneer twin deck recorder for a mate of mine, using a number of Minidisc tracks. The first few were ANALOGUE copies of MD's as the MD's were digital copies of the original CD. The last few were digital copies (bringing my Sony MZ-1 out of retirement and using its digital output to feed into the CD deck! I KNEW it would come in useful one day!), as the source was an MD recording of an analogue tape Once having compiled this I thought 'Hmmm, I'll make a copy of this for myself', and put the new CD (a mixture of analogue and digital tracks) into the CD recorder, and managed to copy it all to a blank CD. My question is because the first few tracks were analogue copies of the MD, the burner was quite happy to record these, but I was surprised the last few were allowed as these were digital copies of the MD. When does the SCMS check get done? At the start of the disc or at the start of each track? If its the start of the disc, the analogue tracks seem to have let the digital ones slip through. The only alternative I can think of is that the CD recorder switched to an analogue copy for the last few tracks? Sorry if I've not explained this very well, but anyone got any ideas? Thanks a lot Martin * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email with attachments is solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Please also be aware that DnB cannot accept any payment orders or other legally binding correspondence with customers as a part of an email. This email message has been virus checked by the virus programs used in the DnB Group. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS and Microphone Recording
This email was delivered to you by The Free Internet, a Business Online Group company. http://www.thefreeinternet.net --- What the hell has crawled up everyones ass and died recently, the term "not quite there mate" was meant to be an addition, not talking down at someone, and sorry for being wrong, maybe ure not human, maybe ure some artificial intellifence that never makes a mistake. Dont be so patronising and condescental yourself, I admit I am wrong, but there is no need to rip my head off for it, admit it, ure human, u've made mistakes, or are so infallible that a mistake would override your system in make it crash and bring you down? -- Stuart Howlette "There are many questions in life, but is the right answer only correct because the majority believe in it?" [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://minidisc.sphosting.com http://minidisc.sphosting.com/personal/ -- - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 6:48 PM Subject: Re: MD: SCMS and Microphone Recording > > | Hmm, still not quite there mate, > > Howlette, your condescension is inappropriate. Even if you were right and I > wrong, it would still be rude. Talking down at someone when you're wrong and > the other person is right -- as is the case here -- is even worse. > > | its that its on MiniDisc, so it cannot be copied again, remember, it has an > | ADC, so it gets converted to digital, then cannot be copied. > > You are 100% wrong about that. If that were true, it would be impossible > ever to make a digital copy from a MiniDisc under SCMS. Perhaps you believe > that it is, but in actual reality it isn't. I've done it many, many times. > > The facts are that analog input digitized by the recorder's on-board ADC is > laid down as SCMS-penultimate, and one generation of digital recopying is > allowed under SCMS. If one were foolish enough to route the analog signal > through an outboard ADC, the ADC's digital output would probably be SCMS-pen- > ultimate; then the recording would be SCMS-final and one really couldn't make > a further copy of it digitally, but that isn't the case here. > > - > To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word > "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS and Microphone Recording
| Hmm, still not quite there mate, Howlette, your condescension is inappropriate. Even if you were right and I wrong, it would still be rude. Talking down at someone when you're wrong and the other person is right -- as is the case here -- is even worse. | its that its on MiniDisc, so it cannot be copied again, remember, it has an | ADC, so it gets converted to digital, then cannot be copied. You are 100% wrong about that. If that were true, it would be impossible ever to make a digital copy from a MiniDisc under SCMS. Perhaps you believe that it is, but in actual reality it isn't. I've done it many, many times. The facts are that analog input digitized by the recorder's on-board ADC is laid down as SCMS-penultimate, and one generation of digital recopying is allowed under SCMS. If one were foolish enough to route the analog signal through an outboard ADC, the ADC's digital output would probably be SCMS-pen- ultimate; then the recording would be SCMS-final and one really couldn't make a further copy of it digitally, but that isn't the case here. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS and Microphone Recording
This email was delivered to you by The Free Internet, a Business Online Group company. http://www.thefreeinternet.net --- Hmm, still not quite there mate, its that its on MiniDisc, so it cannot be copied again, remember, it has an ADC, so it gets converted to digital, then cannot be copied. -- Stuart Howlette "There are many questions in life, but is the right answer only correct because the majority believe in it?" [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://minidisc.sphosting.com http://minidisc.sphosting.com/personal/ -- - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 4:19 AM Subject: Re: MD: SCMS and Microphone Recording > > John Salomone wrote, > > | Ok gang, what's the deal here? I've bootlegged several shows recently using > | my Aiwa AM-F70 and my Core Sound mics and battery box. I use the "line-in" > | setting since I have the powered mics. I guess this constitutes a digital > | input then? > > No, it's analog, unless you were using a digitizing microphone (which for all > I know doesn't exist) or had an in-line ADC between the microphone and the > recorder. > > | I can only assume so since I can't make digital copies of the recordings > | (SCMS prevent). > > Are you positive that SCMS is the reason? Microphone input should be laid > down as SCMS-penultimate just like any other analog source digitized by the > recorder's on-board ADC. The F70 doesn't have digital output; what other > unit are you playing the discs on to try to make a copy by digital transfer? > Maybe it's malfunctioning. More likely your inability to copy has nothing to > do with SCMS. > > | So if I use the "mic" settings to record will it be a different story (i.e. > | it will be a SCMS-free recording)? > > It will be SCMS-penultimate. Recordings on MD, DAT, CD, or DCC are never > "SCMS-free"; the bits are always there and they have to be set to some value > or other, whether that setting is to allow one generation of further copying > (which I prefer to call SCMS-penultimate), unlimited generations (SCMS-unlim- > ited), or no further copying (SCMS-final). Computer sound files and analog > storage don't have SCMS information; when they are copied to a digital audio > format that implements SCMS, the SCMS bits have to be set somehow, usually to > penultimate. > > | I guess the next question is what are my best SCMS stripping options? I > | don't want to mess with building the elektor kit. Must I wait until I get > | my new computer and do this on CD-R using the Sony PCS-1 link? But doesn't > | this yield an anlog copy anyway, something I can already do with MD to MD. > > If your computer has a soundcard with digital inputs, and you have an MD unit > with digital output, you could rip digitally to the computer. Since computer > sound files do not support SCMS information, you'd avoid interference from > SCMS without needing to go analog. > > - > To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word > "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS and Microphone Recording
John Salomone wrote, | Ok gang, what's the deal here? I've bootlegged several shows recently using | my Aiwa AM-F70 and my Core Sound mics and battery box. I use the "line-in" | setting since I have the powered mics. I guess this constitutes a digital | input then? No, it's analog, unless you were using a digitizing microphone (which for all I know doesn't exist) or had an in-line ADC between the microphone and the recorder. | I can only assume so since I can't make digital copies of the recordings | (SCMS prevent). Are you positive that SCMS is the reason? Microphone input should be laid down as SCMS-penultimate just like any other analog source digitized by the recorder's on-board ADC. The F70 doesn't have digital output; what other unit are you playing the discs on to try to make a copy by digital transfer? Maybe it's malfunctioning. More likely your inability to copy has nothing to do with SCMS. | So if I use the "mic" settings to record will it be a different story (i.e. | it will be a SCMS-free recording)? It will be SCMS-penultimate. Recordings on MD, DAT, CD, or DCC are never "SCMS-free"; the bits are always there and they have to be set to some value or other, whether that setting is to allow one generation of further copying (which I prefer to call SCMS-penultimate), unlimited generations (SCMS-unlim- ited), or no further copying (SCMS-final). Computer sound files and analog storage don't have SCMS information; when they are copied to a digital audio format that implements SCMS, the SCMS bits have to be set somehow, usually to penultimate. | I guess the next question is what are my best SCMS stripping options? I | don't want to mess with building the elektor kit. Must I wait until I get | my new computer and do this on CD-R using the Sony PCS-1 link? But doesn't | this yield an anlog copy anyway, something I can already do with MD to MD. If your computer has a soundcard with digital inputs, and you have an MD unit with digital output, you could rip digitally to the computer. Since computer sound files do not support SCMS information, you'd avoid interference from SCMS without needing to go analog. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS and Microphone Recording
Ok gang, what's the deal here? I've bootlegged several shows recently using my Aiwa AM-F70 and my Core Sound mics and battery box. I use the "line-in" setting since I have the powered mics. I guess this constitutes a digital input then? I can only assume so since I can't make digital copies of the recordings (SCMS prevent). This sucks. So if I use the "mic" settings to record will it be a different story (i.e. it will be a SCMS-free recording)? I guess the next question is what are my best SCMS stripping options? I don't want to mess with building the elektor kit. Must I wait until I get my new computer and do this on CD-R using the Sony PCS-1 link? But doesn't this yield an anlog copy anyway, something I can already do with MD to MD. Help free me from some of this SCMS confusion. Thanks. John _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS Stripper
Where is the best place to get an SCMS stripper that will leave the track marks and such? I read about the German kit (last week wasn't it?) but was wondering if anyone sells one already assembled. Need a reliable source so if the kit is the only way just point me to the place! THANKS! Les www.musicmixers.com/mall - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: scms stripper again...
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MD: SCMS editor for sale
If anyone is interested, I have D4-2 Copy Con available for $159 + s/h. This SCMS editor works perfectly. I don't really use it that much though, and am trying to finance a DVD player. Email me privately if you are interested. Thanks, Glen [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: MD: MiniDisc Weekly News for 14 January 2001 > o Oliver spots the Friend-Chip D4-2 Copy Con, an SCMS editor, > available from [4]Klay Anderson Audio for USD $199. www.klay.com - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS
Keith Whitfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Where Do you get the SCMS stripper from or do you build them yourself. > What price are they and are they the sort of thing you can get in > electronic/Audio shops if not wheres a good web site to buy from. The Midiman CO3 does the job at a reasonable cost. You can find details about it on our Web page. Len Moskowitz Stealth Microphones (tm), Cables, Interfaces Core Soundhttp://www.stealthmicrophones.com Teaneck, New Jersey http://www.core-sound.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912 - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS
=== = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please = = be more selective when quoting text = === Where Do you get the SCMS stripper from or do you build them yourself. What price are they and are they the sort of thing you can get in electronic/Audio shops if not wheres a good web site to buy from. thanks keith On 05-Sep-00, you wrote: > > Jeanmougin wrote, > > But what will be the SCMS status of this new digital copy (unlimited copy > or one > generation allowed?)? > > It might depend on your stripper. Mine makes the new digital copy > "unlimited copy". > It is very convenient. Having a SCMS stripper between my deck and my R-90 > has been a real upgrade. Great for re-organizing and consolidating music > between MD's. > > Regards, > > Leland > - > To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word > "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS
Jeanmougin wrote, But what will be the SCMS status of this new digital copy (unlimited copy or one generation allowed?)? It might depend on your stripper. Mine makes the new digital copy "unlimited copy". It is very convenient. Having a SCMS stripper between my deck and my R-90 has been a real upgrade. Great for re-organizing and consolidating music between MD's. Regards, Leland - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS
I could swear I posted a reply a few days ago, but it never showed up at either of my subscriptions, so sorry if this is a duplication. Jeanmougin followed up, | If I play a digitally recorded MD on a deck and I use a SCMS stripper | between the optical out of the deck and the optical in of a recorder, I'll | pass-by the SCMS interdiction. But what will be the SCMS status of this new | digital copy (unlimited copy or one generation allowed?)? That depends on the particulars of the stripping firmware. Let's rule out the possibility that the recording device is professional grade, because with a pro-grade recorder you wouldn't need nor be using a stripper. Let's also rule out the possibility that the destination unit will refuse to record because of SCMS, because then the stripper isn't working and the question requires that the copy came to be. So we have a digital signal being ac- cepted and recorded by a consumer-grade MD recorder. Either the output of the stripper is SCMS-unlimited, the copy should also be SCMS-unlimited, and further generations can be made without a stripper; or the output of the stripper is SCMS-penultimate, the copy is SCMS-final, and making another generation would require a stripper again. [I'm tempted to say that the copy can't be SCMS-penultimate, that a consumer- grade recorder will never generate an SCMS-penultimate recording from a di- gital signal; but there still is the mystery of DBS tuners, which no one here (Ralf Kuchenhart looked into it pretty deeply and came to no hard con- clusions) has ever solved. I suppose that if the stripper sent out the same settings (not just of SCMS but also of whatever else it takes) to make the signal seem to the recorder like one from that kind of DBS tuner, it could happen.] The Prospec MSP730 has two settings: pass the SCMS bits as they are or set them for unlimited recopying. So when I use my stripper, the copy is SCMS- unlimited and further generations can be made by digital transfer without SCMS problems. On the other hand (though there is no in-line stripper in this example), according to Derek Streeter, when an early ROM version of the MZ-R50 is set to "SCMS OFF," if it receives an SCMS-final signal it makes an SCMS-final recording (in contrast to refusing to record it at all), so copy- ing the copy requires circumventing SCMS all over again. (It also makes SCMS-final copies from SCMS-penultimate input with the "SCMS OFF" setting, just as with "SCMS ON.") - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS
OK. So, SCMS strippers don't remove SCMS. They change the SCMS status to pass-by
the interdiction.
If I play a digitally recorded MD on a deck and I use a SCMS stripper between
the optical out of the deck
and the optical in of a recorder, I'll pass-by the SCMS interdiction. But what
will be the SCMS status of this new digital copy (unlimited copy or one
generation allowed?)?
David W. Tamkin a écrit:
> Jeanmougin wrote,
>
> | When you make a copy of a CD with optical cable, SCMS is implemented on
> | the MD.
>
> SCMS was implemented on the CD to start, but it was set to allow one gene-
> ration of digital copying. Permission to copy does not mean absence of SCMS:
> SCMS is the *system* (that's what the second S stands for) and it is imple-
> mented on all consumer digital audio media.
>
> [The problem with saying "this doesn't have SCMS" or "there's no SCMS here"
> to describe an SCMS-compliant recording that allows copying is that saying
> it that way destroys the distinctions among (1) a recording or signal whose
> SCMS bits allow one generation of copying, (2) a recording or signal whose
> SCMS bits allow unlimited generations of recopying, and (3) a storage format
> {such as a .wav or .mp3 file on a hard disk} or a transmission protocol
> {such as AES/EBU or an analog signal} that truly does not carry SCMS infor-
> mation. Only type #3 can properly be described as "not having SCMS."]
>
> | The copy bit 10 is written and prevents a second generation digital copy.
>
> "10" is the designation for "no further digital copying" on DATs; on MDs it's
> actually "01" (in bits 6 and 5 of the segment's status word).
>
> | But is it the MD recorder that puts SCMS protection on the disc or does the
> | MD recorder only write the copy bit of the source? In other words, is it
> | the digital out of a deck (CD, MD) that sends the SCMS status or is it the
> | MD recorder that writes the SCMS status during recording?
>
> Both. (Pardon the anthropomorphisms here, but they do facilitate the expla-
> nation.) The source machine reports the SCMS status of whatever it is play-
> ing and the destination machine decides how to respond. If the source sends
> out "I am playing an SCMS-penultimate recording" in its S/PDIF output, then
> the destination machine decides "This signal is SCMS-penultimate, and I obey
> SCMS, so I must mark the copy I'm writing as SCMS-final." When you try to
> copy an SCMS-final source digitally, it is the destination machine that de-
> cides, "This signal is SCMS-final, and I obey SCMS, so I won't record it."
> A professional-grade recorder might have logic instead of say, "I'm receiving
> an SCMS-final signal, but my switches are set to disobey SCMS and to write
> SCMS bits that allow unlimited recopying (or to write SCMS bits that allow
> one more generation, or however the switches are set), so that's what I'll
> do."
>
> -
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> "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
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Re: MD: SCMS
Jeanmougin wrote,
| When you make a copy of a CD with optical cable, SCMS is implemented on
| the MD.
SCMS was implemented on the CD to start, but it was set to allow one gene-
ration of digital copying. Permission to copy does not mean absence of SCMS:
SCMS is the *system* (that's what the second S stands for) and it is imple-
mented on all consumer digital audio media.
[The problem with saying "this doesn't have SCMS" or "there's no SCMS here"
to describe an SCMS-compliant recording that allows copying is that saying
it that way destroys the distinctions among (1) a recording or signal whose
SCMS bits allow one generation of copying, (2) a recording or signal whose
SCMS bits allow unlimited generations of recopying, and (3) a storage format
{such as a .wav or .mp3 file on a hard disk} or a transmission protocol
{such as AES/EBU or an analog signal} that truly does not carry SCMS infor-
mation. Only type #3 can properly be described as "not having SCMS."]
| The copy bit 10 is written and prevents a second generation digital copy.
"10" is the designation for "no further digital copying" on DATs; on MDs it's
actually "01" (in bits 6 and 5 of the segment's status word).
| But is it the MD recorder that puts SCMS protection on the disc or does the
| MD recorder only write the copy bit of the source? In other words, is it
| the digital out of a deck (CD, MD) that sends the SCMS status or is it the
| MD recorder that writes the SCMS status during recording?
Both. (Pardon the anthropomorphisms here, but they do facilitate the expla-
nation.) The source machine reports the SCMS status of whatever it is play-
ing and the destination machine decides how to respond. If the source sends
out "I am playing an SCMS-penultimate recording" in its S/PDIF output, then
the destination machine decides "This signal is SCMS-penultimate, and I obey
SCMS, so I must mark the copy I'm writing as SCMS-final." When you try to
copy an SCMS-final source digitally, it is the destination machine that de-
cides, "This signal is SCMS-final, and I obey SCMS, so I won't record it."
A professional-grade recorder might have logic instead of say, "I'm receiving
an SCMS-final signal, but my switches are set to disobey SCMS and to write
SCMS bits that allow unlimited recopying (or to write SCMS bits that allow
one more generation, or however the switches are set), so that's what I'll
do."
-
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MD: SCMS
When you make a copy of a CD with optical cable, SCMS is implemented on the MD. The copy bit 10 is written and prevents a second generation digital copy. But is it the MD recorder that puts SCMS protection on the disc or does the MD recorder only write the copy bit of the source? In other words, is it the digital out of a deck (CD, MD) that sends the SCMS status or is it the MD recorder that writes the SCMS status during recording? - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS and burning CDs
Julien Blaise asked, | Once, a friend gave me a burned audio cd, and when I tried to copy it | digitally to my R55 it said "NoCopy" !!! | So I would like to know how SCMS works when you copy an audio CD, | because now I have a cd-writer and I copied an audio cd and then I | tried to put this copy on MD, to see what's happening. And to my | surprise I was able to copy this copy (!) to my MD. | To burn this CD, I used WinOnCD. | So, is it the software or the cd-writer? Also I saw in Nero a Copyright | option. Is it SCMS ?? Yes, it's very much SCMS. Since you mention WinOnCD and Nero, I gather you wrote your CD on a com- puter's CDR drive. Computers are not audio devices primarily, and they are exempt from SCMS. When you burn a CD from a computer, the burning software has to set the SCMS bits on the CD somehow, but it doesn't need to comply with SCMS. So some burning programs always set the SCMS bits for one more generation of copying, and some let the user decide how to set them, and there are other possibilities (which I haven't seen myself). If your friend used a standalone audio CD recorder and made a digital transfer from a source coded to allow only one generation of copying, then it follows that the CDR was coded to forbid any digital copying. But the rules are different from burners that are computer peripherals and recorders that are separate audio components. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS and burning CDs
AFAIK, the computer based CD burners don't bother with SCMS, but the stand alone one do. SO if your friend copied it on a stand alone unit, the scms would be set to no copy, if you copied one on a computer based system, scms would be set to unlimited copies. If I am wrong, I am sure someone will correct me, but that is what I think is happening. "Julien Blaise (E-coli)" wrote: > > Hi, > > Once, a friend gave me a burned audio cd, and when I tried to copy it > digitally to my R55 it said "NoCopy" !!! > So I would like to know how SCMS works when you copy an audio CD, > because now I have a cd-writer and I copied an audio cd and then I > tried to put this copy on MD, to see what's happening. And to my > surprise I was able to copy this copy (!) to my MD. > To burn this CD, I used WinOnCD. > So, is it the software or the cd-writer? Also I saw in Nero a Copyright > option. Is it SCMS ?? > Thanks in advance ! > (Sorry if it's a little OT !) > > - > To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word > "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Jim Coon Not just another pretty mandolin picker. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If Gibson made cars, would they sound so sweet? My first web page http://www.tir.com/~liteways - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS and burning CDs
Hi, Once, a friend gave me a burned audio cd, and when I tried to copy it digitally to my R55 it said "NoCopy" !!! So I would like to know how SCMS works when you copy an audio CD, because now I have a cd-writer and I copied an audio cd and then I tried to put this copy on MD, to see what's happening. And to my surprise I was able to copy this copy (!) to my MD. To burn this CD, I used WinOnCD. So, is it the software or the cd-writer? Also I saw in Nero a Copyright option. Is it SCMS ?? Thanks in advance ! (Sorry if it's a little OT !) - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS strippers
Dodge wrote, | I need an SCMS stripper to copy my OWN stuff for friends... | Then there's no fuss about copyright, or is there ? You're absolutely right. What SCMS permits or prohibits does not line up with what copyright law permits and prohibits. SCMS isn't for enforcing copyright law; it's for sucking up to the recording industry. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS strippers
I wish to thank the following people : James Jarvie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jim Gray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> las <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> because they stood by me ! I need an SCMS stripper to copy my OWN stuff for friends... Then there's no fuss about copyright, or is there ? I made some recordings via my optical out on my soundcard, lost the original files on my HD due to a crash and want to copy the stuff i recorded on MD for some of my friends... SO THAT ISN'T ILLEGAL !!! And, another thing Not everybody has enough money to splash out on PRO equipment... I'm not an MD-audio freak, i just use it very regularly because of it's easy recording and editing features... I own 4 MD devices... an MZ-R30 that i use to record the mixes i do in a club, one MDS-37 (my first MD deck!), an PC2 for easy titling and PC related stuff and one MDX 7900 for listening in my Jeep... And i accumulated that equipment over 4 years... So, i wish to thank those people again and keep on MD'ing !!! Greetz, Dodge = - A wise man once said : - Being in a relationship is talking soft and LYING HARD ! (Dodge, 1999) What do you think ? You can e-mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] - __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: Scms
>people don't necessarily want SCMS control just to STEAL music, it's >also because without it you can't even copy YOUR OWN stuff. And we >don't all have the budgets for pro equipment. Maybe they should make a setting that when you make an analog recording, you can set the SCMS-setting yourself. (Or only when you are making a recording with a mic...) Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS (apology...)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I dont want to start a thread on this, but I thought that > SCMS was supposed to allow legitimate copying, > but block "illegal" copying. That is the way it should be. However, the way it works is, if you make an anolog recording, you can make only a first generation digital copy. It doesn't matter if it is a recording of a CD, a tape, a radio program, or your own taped practice session. You can copy your original once, digitally, and then the next copy has to be analog. That means I can't record myself playing and singing a tune, then save the master and make edits on the copy and expect to make digital copies of my edited version. Sort of sucks doesn't it? -- Jim Coon Not just another pretty mandolin picker. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If Gibson made cars, would they sound so sweet? My first web page http://www.tir.com/~liteways - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS (apology...)
Ed Wong wrote, | I dont want to start a thread on this, but I thought that SCMS was supposed | to allow legitimate copying, but block "illegal" copying. No, SCMS is supposed to "manage" copying, hence its name. It manages it very poorly, prohibiting some copying that should be allowed and permitting some copying that should be forbidden. | So - whats the point of having SCMS anyway - the real "thieves" can get | around it with a little effort (by buying pro stuff). Exactly: it barely gives the pirates pause while it gets in the way of people trying to edit and distribute material to which they do own the rights. SCMS is even a bigger joke with MD, since by TOC-update evasion or TOC cloning one can alter SCMS bits on recordable MDs even with consumer-grade hardware. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS (apology...)
Point well made I dont want to start a thread on this, but I thought that SCMS was supposed to allow legitimate copying, but block "illegal" copying. Now granted - maybe the SCMS schema itself is flawed (which I would NOT be surprised at), but if SCMS actually worked to block illegal copying uses, then the reasons to bypass SCMS would be only for "nefarious" purposes. In any case - I think the whole schema of "pro" equipment is dumb anyway. If I were going to "manufacture" CDs to "steal" music - Id get the pro stuff anyway. So - whats the point of having SCMS anyway - the real "thiefs" can get around it with a little effort (by buying pro stuff). I didnt mean to accuse people of copyright theft - I merely wanted to point out that there was an alternative SCMS "stripper" that isnt that well known (outside of this list of course). EWong ___ To EWong. Maybe the original poster would have bought the professional equipment, if he had realized that he wanted that feature (i.e. the ability to set the SCMS); but now that he has a MD recorder, doesn't really want to go out and buy another unit. SNIP - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: scms
I agree with you 100% and that's why I don't think that they should be allowed to force it on us. It can be looked at two ways regarding preventing crime. You put locks on doors to keep people from stealing or people know that stealing is a crime and even though you have a sidewalk sale, people don't just run away with stuff. Larry Jim Gray wrote: > people don't necessarily want SCMS control just to STEAL music, it's > also because without it you can't even copy YOUR OWN stuff. And we > don't all have the budgets for pro equipment. > > - > To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word > "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: scms
I agree with you 100% and that's why I don't think that they should be alowed to force it on us. It can be looked at two ways regarding preventing crime. You put locks on doors to keep people from stealing or people know that stealing is a crime and even though you have a sidewalk sale, people don't just run away with stuff. Larry Jim Gray wrote: > people don't necessarily want SCMS control just to STEAL music, it's > also because without it you can't even copy YOUR OWN stuff. And we > don't all have the budgets for pro equipment. > > - > To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word > "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: scms
people don't necessarily want SCMS control just to STEAL music, it's also because without it you can't even copy YOUR OWN stuff. And we don't all have the budgets for pro equipment. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS Stripper
To EWong. Maybe the original poster would have bought the professional equipment, if he had realized that he wanted that feature (i.e. the ability to set the SCMS); but now that he has a MD recorder, doesn't really want to go out and buy another unit. P.S. There are times when one would want to get around SCMS that aren't necessary copywrite infringements. Judge not, lest ye be judged. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS bit remover... cont
I happen to have "pro" MD and CDR equipment. Now I really havent bothered to look into the issue, becuase Im mostly making mixes and thus HAVE to use analog inputs; I dont think Ive even seen a full digital mixer - at least not something that has a cross fader. I usually make the mix on MD and then download to CDR - since all the equipment is "pro" ive never cared to see what SCMS settings were... Anyway - I do recall some configurations settings so that I can 1 - follow canonical settings 2 - force to no copy 3 - force to one copy 4 - force to unlimited copy Im not sure of the details, but if anyone is really intersted, I'll look it up - Tascam CDR-1000 (no longer sold AFAIK) - Denon MD-2300R Anyway - the point of the post was to obtusely state my opinion of the whole SCMS issue - in that all this "I want a SCMS stripper" inquiry is kinda DUMB. What it seems is that people want an SCMS stripper that costs next to nothing. Pro level equipment in effect has a SCMS stripper built in. The cost of pro equipment is roughly twice that of consumer equipment. I have seen pro MD units for about $600 (Sony MD-11? - the neat 1U unit) Yeah - it might be possible to get a home unit for $150 and a "stripper" for $100 but why deal with all the "shady aspects", the pro stuff is legal to buy and own... oh - thats right we want to STEAL music hence the quest for low cost. So if thats your angle - go steal pro equipment? Sorry for the rant - I just find it silly that someone is going to NY to get an "theft" device when one is probably available at the local music shop (for enuff $$ of course) EWong - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS Strippers
>>I'm going to New-York next week, and i want to bring back a SCMS stripper >>Does anyone have an adress of a shop in NY ? >>I wanna bring it back from the US with me, because you can't find it anywhere >>over here ! (Belgium) > >As far as I know they are illegal in this country. Even people who used to >sell them on the internet seemed to have been forced to stop. A similar >thing is going on >now with DVD players that allow you to disable their copy protection >(Macrovision). They have been forced to modify their players so that you can >not defeat it. I would recomend buying a good digital I/O board, just need to make sure you go for one that passes the input to the out put with out any proccessing. RME ( www.rme-audio.de ) make some nice I/O boards. There are go and bad points with doing it that way. more features more problemsetc... But you can buy them anywhere legally. -- matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS Strippers
yep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I thought "pro" equipment ignored teh SCMS bits > Thus all "pro" equipment in effect has SCMS strippers > built in... > > - > To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word > "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Jim Coon Not just another pretty mandolin picker. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If Gibson made cars, would they sound so sweet? My first web page http://www.tir.com/~liteways - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS Strippers
Ed Wong wrote, | I thought "pro" equipment ignored teh SCMS bits Pro equipment can ignore the SCMS bits of what it *reads*, but it needs to set them somehow or other on what it *writes*. My understanding ... and I've occasionally asked people who own a piece of pro equipment what it did ... is that it usually can set the SCMS bits of its recordings however the user chooses, regardless of the SCMS status of the input. Often (maybe almost always) the machine would also have a setting to do the canonical thing with SCMS bits, same as a consumer unit. | Thus all "pro" equipment in effect has SCMS strippers built in... Yes, you could say they do. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS Strippers
I thought "pro" equipment ignored teh SCMS bits Thus all "pro" equipment in effect has SCMS strippers built in... - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: SCMS Strippers
If you use a Sony Deck, you can trick the SCMS. It is very easy to do, instructions in the link below. http://members.aol.com/BorusSylt/scms.htm another good site: http://ravn.net/md/ -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of las Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 12:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: MD: SCMS Strippers === = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please = = be more selective when quoting text = === As far as I know they are illegal in this country. Even people who used to sell them on the internet seemed to have been forced to stop. A similar thing is going on now with DVD players that allow you to disable their copy protection (Macrovision). They have been forced to modify their players so that you can not defeat it. That leads to the debate about copying an MD copied from a CD, for example. Right now if you make a digital copy of the MD, you can't make a digital copy from that MD on to another MD. I question the wisdom of doing that in the first place. Every time you copy an MD you have to "decompress" it and "compress" it again. There has got to be some generation loss with each copy of a copy. But since I have never personally done it (I don't have a SCMS stripper to be able to do it in the first place) I can't personally say if you would hear a difference for the first few generations. Perhaps someone else can comment on that. Have a great day, Larry Dodge wrote: > Hey guyz... > > I'm going to New-York next week, and i want to bring back a SCMS stripper > Does anyone have an adress of a shop in NY ? > I wanna bring it back from the US with me, because you can't find it anywhere > over here ! (Belgium) > > Thnx in advance... > Dodge > > = > > -- --- > > A wise man once said : - Being in a relationship is talking soft and LYING HARD ! (Dodge, 1999) > > What do you think ? You can e-mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- --- > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > - > To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word > "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS Strippers
=== = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please = = be more selective when quoting text = === As far as I know they are illegal in this country. Even people who used to sell them on the internet seemed to have been forced to stop. A similar thing is going on now with DVD players that allow you to disable their copy protection (Macrovision). They have been forced to modify their players so that you can not defeat it. That leads to the debate about copying an MD copied from a CD, for example. Right now if you make a digital copy of the MD, you can't make a digital copy from that MD on to another MD. I question the wisdom of doing that in the first place. Every time you copy an MD you have to "decompress" it and "compress" it again. There has got to be some generation loss with each copy of a copy. But since I have never personally done it (I don't have a SCMS stripper to be able to do it in the first place) I can't personally say if you would hear a difference for the first few generations. Perhaps someone else can comment on that. Have a great day, Larry Dodge wrote: > Hey guyz... > > I'm going to New-York next week, and i want to bring back a SCMS stripper > Does anyone have an adress of a shop in NY ? > I wanna bring it back from the US with me, because you can't find it anywhere > over here ! (Belgium) > > Thnx in advance... > Dodge > > = > > >- > > A wise man once said : - Being in a relationship is talking soft and LYING HARD ! >(Dodge, 1999) > > What do you think ? You can e-mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >- > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > - > To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word > "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS Strippers
Hey guyz... I'm going to New-York next week, and i want to bring back a SCMS stripper Does anyone have an adress of a shop in NY ? I wanna bring it back from the US with me, because you can't find it anywhere over here ! (Belgium) Thnx in advance... Dodge = - A wise man once said : - Being in a relationship is talking soft and LYING HARD ! (Dodge, 1999) What do you think ? You can e-mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] - __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS and CD-Rs
Simon Mackay asked, | Does anyone know what the SCMS status is for audio CD-Rs that are burnt | using a computer, rather than a standalone CD recorder. That depends on the burning software. | For example, if I ... burn a Red Book CD from the WAV files, how do these | discs get treated -- whether the recording is a Penultimate, Unlimited or | Final recording. Adaptec Easy CD creator marks them penultimate. It came with my Iomega CDRW drive, so I haven't tried any other burning software. I know they are penul- timate because I copied them by digital transfer to MD without using a stripper, and the transfer proceeded, but my JE520 identified the MD copies as SCMS-final. | Also, is it possible to use a "For Consumer" CD-R which is used with a | standalone CD recorder on a computer's CD burner for data or audio; Audio, yes; data, I don't know. | and whether these discs' "fingerprint" information can be used by CD-ROM | drives to identify recordings for purposes such as title databases. If you mean what I think you do, yes. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS and CD-Rs
At 14:04 01/07/2000 +1000, you wrote: >Hi everyone! > >Does anyone know what the SCMS status is for audio CD-Rs that are burnt >using a computer, rather than a standalone CD recorder. For example, if I >make WAV files from a CD-DA disc, MP3 files, or audio obtained through the >sound-card and burn a Red Book CD from the WAV files, how do these discs get >treated -- whether the recording is a Penultimate, Unlimited or Final >recording. When you record with a computer CD-R drive, it is effectively a master disc which you're creating - you can then copy that disc onto MD or whatever. >Also, is it possible to use a "For Consumer" CD-R which is used with a >standalone CD recorder on a computer's CD burner for data or audio; and >whether these discs' "fingerprint" information can be used by CD-ROM drives >to identify recordings for purposes such as title databases. I think it should be OK - I had a "consumer" Philips CD-RW and that worked fine in my CD-RW drive - computer drives aren't particularly fussy in my experience! Bear in mind that computer CD-R discs are cheaper than the consumer ones though... >With regards, > >Simon Mackay Cheers, Richard - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS and CD-Rs
Hi everyone! Does anyone know what the SCMS status is for audio CD-Rs that are burnt using a computer, rather than a standalone CD recorder. For example, if I make WAV files from a CD-DA disc, MP3 files, or audio obtained through the sound-card and burn a Red Book CD from the WAV files, how do these discs get treated -- whether the recording is a Penultimate, Unlimited or Final recording. Also, is it possible to use a "For Consumer" CD-R which is used with a standalone CD recorder on a computer's CD burner for data or audio; and whether these discs' "fingerprint" information can be used by CD-ROM drives to identify recordings for purposes such as title databases. With regards, Simon Mackay - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS Questions
=== = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please = = be more selective when quoting text = === Just curious, but how do they get around the legality of SCMS control? I thouhgt the recording companies forced us all to put up with the stupid SCMS by the copy right laws. Len Moskowitz wrote: > > "Magic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Anyway I just wanted to ask about what types of machine exist that disable > > the SCMS situation. I don't care for do-it-your-self ways or test modes, > > service modes etc. I just wanted a retail device and the prices available... > > We offer the Midiman CO3. It converts between the various physical > formats (Toslink fiber optic, RCA and XLR coaxial), plus it controls > SCMS. > > Please see our Web page for details. > > Len Moskowitz Stealth Microphones (tm), Cables, Interfaces > Core Soundhttp://www.stealthmicrophones.com > Teaneck, New Jersey http://www.core-sound.com > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912 > - > To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word > "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS Questions
"Magic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Anyway I just wanted to ask about what types of machine exist that disable > the SCMS situation. I don't care for do-it-your-self ways or test modes, > service modes etc. I just wanted a retail device and the prices available... We offer the Midiman CO3. It converts between the various physical formats (Toslink fiber optic, RCA and XLR coaxial), plus it controls SCMS. Please see our Web page for details. Len Moskowitz Stealth Microphones (tm), Cables, Interfaces Core Soundhttp://www.stealthmicrophones.com Teaneck, New Jersey http://www.core-sound.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912 - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS Questions
As i recall if you just wanna disable smcs through optical digital then there are (or at least used to be) a couple devices that would do this. if you just wan a md recorder/player that can ignore smcs then look into tascam. I know they make a couple that will do this, but i dont know of any other brands currently that will. hope this helps out. - Original Message - From: J. Coon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 3:45 PM Subject: Re: MD: SCMS Questions > > Magic wrote: > > > > Anyway I just wanted to ask about what types of machine exist that disable > > the SCMS situation. I don't care for do-it-your-self ways or test modes, > > service modes etc. I just wanted a retail device and the prices available... > > > They are a sick bird. So you won't find any consumer grade MD units that > disable SCMS. The Current copy right laws are what makes a consumer > grade machine have SCMS. > > BTW a sick bird is an ill eagle. > - > To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word > "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS Questions
Magic wrote: > > Anyway I just wanted to ask about what types of machine exist that disable > the SCMS situation. I don't care for do-it-your-self ways or test modes, > service modes etc. I just wanted a retail device and the prices available... > They are a sick bird. So you won't find any consumer grade MD units that disable SCMS. The Current copy right laws are what makes a consumer grade machine have SCMS. BTW a sick bird is an ill eagle. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS Questions
Hello People, I know I am not the first of the second bringing up the subject of SCMS but I couldn't resist since buying a deck (Sony MDS-JB930) which has an optical out. I have an MZ-R50 and a mini hi-fi system which has a Sony 3 MD Recorder/Player (Sony EX880MD). When trying to make a copy of a digital recording that I had created with my deck to the other two I got the NO COPY message. After lots of thought I just wanted to say that sounds completed stupid to me. Why SCMS hasn't become the stadar for all CDs available? In MD most of us just create our own collections and many times we want to keep another backup of our copies for various reasons. Anyway I just wanted to ask about what types of machine exist that disable the SCMS situation. I don't care for do-it-your-self ways or test modes, service modes etc. I just wanted a retail device and the prices available... thanx Magic - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS Killers
Hi people, I know I am not the first or the second bringing up the subject of - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: SCMS and satellite tuner broadcasts
Regarding the SCMS (SP-DIF Copy Management System) and digital radio ==BEGIN QUOTE So, per Yamaha, when a second generation is possible, so is a third. The tuner output includes SCMS status bits, and they work like those of any other source, and there's no anomalous antepenultimate setting. That completely disagrees with Sony, according to whom it's possible sometimes to make a second generation within SCMS but never a third. ==END QUOTE=== It should depend on whether the SCMS logic is driven by the SP-DIF Category Codes; where there are special codes defined for digital-broadcast tuners. When I talk of digital broadcast tuners, I talk of the satellite tuners like Japan's BS/CS tuners, the DSS tuners available in the US, the ADR/DMX tuners sold in Europe, or any of the Sky DigiBoxes that offer SP/DIF output in the UK; DAB tuners offered in Europe or Canada; or the DMX or MusicChoice cable-radio boxes offered in the US. Sony has published information in their SCMS description as though it caters for tuners that publish the proper SP-DIF Category Code. On the other hand, Yamaha are catering for "unknown" factors and mentioning that a "penultimate override" may be provided by the broadcaster; in those situations like "pay-per-listen" events offered by broadcasters. Also, mo-one has offered any way of monitoring SP-DIF streams to identify information like the SP-DIF Category Code or SCMS status. This could be useful for identifying how digital tuners handle the SCMS issue. The only way to monitor this factor is to make a recording via the SP-DIF Recent Sony MD decks have an officially-unsupported ability to identify the SCMS status of an MD recording. With regards, Simon Mackay - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS and satellite tuner broadcasts
Sony MD recorder manuals, in describing SCMS, have always said that signals from digital satellite broadcasts can be either SCMS-penultimate (you can record them but you can't copy the recording digitally) or mysteriously SCMS-antepenultimate (you can record them and copy that recording digitally but SCMS prevents making a third generation digitally). We've never found an answer to what distinguishes the latter from the former, or how the latter can even happen (unless the source medium code tells an MD recorder to mark the recording as SCMS-penultimate). Now the waters are muddied further. Chris Browne just provided the manual from the Yamaha MDX-793 to the MDCP, including this passage about SCMS on digital satellite broadcasts, emphasis mine: You can record a digital signal input from a digital satellite broadcast onto a DAT tape or recordable MD via the digital input jack on the DAT or MD recorder. ... If the broadcast does not contain a copyright protection code, you can then record the contents of this recorded DAT tape or MD (first generation) onto another DAT tape or recordable MD via a digital input jack on the DAT or MD recorder to create a second generation digital copy (these copies may also be copied digitally). ^ Note, however, that if the broadcast contains a copy protection code, second-generation digital copying will not be possible. So, per Yamaha, when a second generation is possible, so is a third. The tuner output includes SCMS status bits, and they work like those of any other source, and there's no anomalous antepenultimate setting. That completely disagrees with Sony, according to whom it's possible sometimes to make a second generation within SCMS but never a third. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS information
Been meaning to answer this for a long time. Martin Schiff quoted something David Tosti-Lane had posted in CompuServe's midiforum, which read, in part, | If it sees a "0" here, then copyright is enabled, if it sees a "1", | copyright is not enabled, and it stops looking. Again, I strongly suspect | that consumer MD recorders by default set this bit to "0" on _all_ | recordings, regardless of their origin. His suspicion was ill-founded. My Sony and Aiwa MD recorders, and my Pioneer CD recorder, all being consumer machines, make SCMS-unlimited copies when fed digital input from SCMS-unlimited sources. As Petr Simanek originally posted here, the SCMS status of an MD segment can be read on Sony decks (well, not the ATRAC 4.0 series) in Retry Cause Display mode while the unit is playing it [or paused while playing it]. The status byte breaks down as follows: bit 7: 0 = premastered, 1 = recordable bit 6: 0 = SCMS-restricted, 1 = SCMS-unrestricted bit 5: 0 = SCMS-original, 1 = SCMS-copied bit 4: always 0 on MiniDiscs bit 3: always 0 on MiniDiscs bit 2: always 1 on MiniDiscs bit 1: 0 = monaural, 1 = stereophonic bit 0: 0 = not preemphasized, 1 = preemphasized So typically the high nybble will be 0 for premastered MDs, 8 for recordings of analog input, A for recordings of digital input from types 0 or 8, and E for SCMS-unlimited material. The low nybble will be 6 for stereo and 4 for mono (add 1 if the segment is preemphasized). Despite Mr. Tosti-Lane's expectations, digital transfers of type-E material to consumer-grade recorders are type E. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS information
This message from one of the SYSOPS on the CompuServe midiforum is one of the better explanations of SCMS implementation that I have read. It also offers an explanation as to why the SCMS on the Hoontech board may be implemented incorrectly, and why I can copy pre-recorded MD's, but not my originals. -- Martin : 593859 S15/Sound Cards (CIS:MIDIFORUM) 06-Feb-00 21:32:11 Sb: Digital discrepancy Fm: Dave Tosti-Lane -Sysop 70334,3165 To: Martin Schiff [CONSULT] 76702,1355 Replies: 0TID: 7735 Par: 593828Chd: 0 Sib: 0 >> I am told by people who seem to know a lot about SCMS that I should be able to make a first generation copy (from the original) of a minidisc that was recorded from an analog source. << The operative word is "should". There are several bits in the channel block data stream that determine SCMS behavior, or at least, that have some effect. One defines the format as either pro or consumer, that is only read by "pro" equipment, that is, equipment designed to read either AES3 or S/PDIF input. If it reads "pro" then the system actually knows to read the copy protection bit as something else (part of the Emphasis setting). The Consumer/Pro bit is bit "0" of byte "0", the copyright status bit is bit "2" of Byte "0", and finally, the _generation_ bit is bit "7" of Byte "1". The scheme is designed so that you can make a Digital copy of copywrighted material, but you cannot make a copy of a copy. SCMS first looks at the Pro/Consumer bit, and if it sees a "1", (for Pro format) it does not operate at all. (my suspicion is that some consumer gear may not make this check, simply assuming material is always consumer) Next, if the material is identified as consumer (Byte zero, bit zero set to "0"), which it _always_ will be for anything recorded on a consumer level MD (even a recording made from the analog inputs), then it looks at byte zero bit 2. If it sees a "0" here, then copyright is enabled, if it sees a "1", copyright is not enabled, and it stops looking. Again, I strongly suspect that consumer MD recorders by default set this bit to "0" on _all_ recordings, regardless of their origin. If the copy bit is set to "0", then the last check is to see whether this is a first generation or second generation copy. Here is where mistakes are easily made in setting up receiving systems, because there are two different schemes to determine the meaning of this bit, and they are exactly the reverse of each other. For most media, the generation bit (called the "L" bit) is read as "original" if the bit is a "1" and as a "copy" if the bit is a "0". BUT, believe it or not, for laser optical products, the reverse is true, a "0" indicates "original" and a "1" indicates "copy". (For CDs it's even crazier, and the "L" bit isn't used at all, with the "C" bit being "0" for "no copyrite", solid "1" for "original with Copyrite" and alternating back and forth from 1 to 0 at a 4-10Hz rate to indicate "copy of original" !!) Byte 1 bits 0-6 are supposed to indicate the type of equipment that is connected, so that the system can interpret the L bit correctly. So, what I suspect is happening, is that the card is failing to distinguish the type of equipment, looking at the L bit, reading a "0" which your MD encoded since this is an "original" recording, but interpreting it to say that the MD is already a copy, and not letting you make a digital copy. Which is scant comfort of course. The amusing part is, if this is what's happening, then the reason you are able to make a copy from the pre-recorded MD is precisely because the record company tried to set it so you couldn't. Dave Tosti-Lane - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS question
Filip wrote: > > > > > > > Newbie question: If I make a field recording using an > > > analog microphone, > > > may I may a duplicate of that MD digitally? That is, play > > > the MD in a > > > player and link digitally to a recorder. > > > > > > > Yes, you can do that no problem at all. What you *cant* do is > > then make a digital copy of that copy. If your original > > recording is on disc "A" you can digitally copy it to > > another disk, "B". You can't make a digital copy of "B" > > onto another disk "C" although you can using analogue. > > You could make a digital copy from "A" to "C". > > > > I believe this is only true for copyrighted material, ie. digital source > that has copyright flag set to true (like commercial CD's). In that > case, copy-of-original is OK, copy-of-copy is forbidden. I own my MD for > two weeks, so I haven't tried this yet, but I'd expect you could make as > many digital copies as you wished from your own recordings, since the > copyright flag would not be set. Correct me if I'm wrong. Ok, we correct you, because the first statement is correct. If you make an anallog copy, you can make a digital copy of it, but you can't make a digital copy of the copy. -- Jim Coon Not just another pretty mandolin picker mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If Gibson made cars, would they sound so sweet? My first web page http://www.tir.com/~liteways/ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: SCMS question
> > > > Newbie question: If I make a field recording using an > > analog microphone, > > may I may a duplicate of that MD digitally? That is, play > > the MD in a > > player and link digitally to a recorder. > > > > Yes, you can do that no problem at all. What you *cant* do is > then make a digital copy of that copy. If your original > recording is on disc "A" you can digitally copy it to > another disk, "B". You can't make a digital copy of "B" > onto another disk "C" although you can using analogue. > You could make a digital copy from "A" to "C". > I believe this is only true for copyrighted material, ie. digital source that has copyright flag set to true (like commercial CD's). In that case, copy-of-original is OK, copy-of-copy is forbidden. I own my MD for two weeks, so I haven't tried this yet, but I'd expect you could make as many digital copies as you wished from your own recordings, since the copyright flag would not be set. Correct me if I'm wrong. ...//.. . filip hajny // [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... ... http://swnet.cz ... //. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS question
From: P. Grover Cleveland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 9:16 PM Subject: Re: MD: SCMS question > > Newbie question: If I make a field recording using an analog microphone, > may I may a duplicate of that MD digitally? That is, play the MD in a > player and link digitally to a recorder. > > Thanks in advance. > > Grover Yes, you can do that no problem at all. What you *cant* do is then make a digital copy of that copy. If your original recording is on disc "A" you can digitally copy it to another disk, "B". You can't make a digital copy of "B" onto another disk "C" although you can using analogue. You could make a digital copy from "A" to "C". Hope this helps! Magic -- "Creativity is more a birthright than an acquisition, and the power of sound is wisdom and understanding applied to the power of vibration." Location : Portsmouth, England, UK Homepage : http://www.mattnet.freeserve.co.uk EMail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS question
Newbie question: If I make a field recording using an analog microphone, may I may a duplicate of that MD digitally? That is, play the MD in a player and link digitally to a recorder. Thanks in advance. Grover -- P. Grover Cleveland [EMAIL PROTECTED] Managing Director Llareggub & District Light Railway "Trekking down the information goat path." - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: scms
Simon Mackay wrote, | The MDS-W1 double-MD deck and some CD-MD combo decks have an analogue | fallback path where the signal is recorded as an analogue signal through | this path or as a digital-direct signal. Right. That of the W1 is buggy, though: it looks at only the is-a-copy bit and not at the copyright bit, so given SCMS-unlimited material, it makes an analog transfer. It offers other ways to copy from one disc to another that do follow the full SCMS specification, though, so it's easily worked around. | Also the SCMS firmware may support an extra copy generation when the digital | source is a digital broadcast receiver such as a digital satellite tuner or | DAB tuner. This exception is well documented with Sony digital-recording | decks in their SCMS explanation page; and with Philips DCC decks (because of | the DSR system that was being promoted in Europe at the time of the DCC). Some people with digital receivers, notably Ralf Kuchenhart, tried to look into that and to figure out the difference between tuners that allow an extra generation and those that do not (Sony's diagram in MD recorder manuals that explains SCMS acknowledges that the second-generation copy is not possible with some tuners), and no one came up with the answer. There is no SCMS value that means `antepenultimate'; the penultimate MD recordings made from satellite broadcasts have something to do with the source medium code or with the sampling rate conversion. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: scms
=BEGIN QUOTE=== Each segment of each track has its own SCMS status regardless of other tracks on the disc or other segments in the track. If you are playing a whole disc straight through and copying digitally to another MD, SCMS will make the target unit pause during uncopyable segments but will allow it to record during copyable segments. =END QUOTE== The MDS-W1 double-MD deck and some CD-MD combo decks have an analogue fallback path where the signal is recorded as an analogue signal through this path or as a digital-direct signal. If you use the easy-copy functions in these decks, the units engage in SCMS-driven path-routing where the content segments that are marked SCMS-final is copied via the analogue path while other segments are copied using a digital-direct path. Also the SCMS firmware may support an extra copy generation when the digital source is a digital broadcast receiver such as a digital satellite tuner or DAB tuner. This exception is well documented with Sony digital-recording decks in their SCMS explanation page; and with Philips DCC decks (because of the DSR system that was being promoted in Europe at the time of the DCC). With regards, Simon Mackay - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: scms
Brent Harding asked, | What is the idea of this scms thing? To impede copyright violations, theoretically. It subverts its own purpose just about as often as it promotes it. | I'm thinking about getting an md | recorder, and want maximum time possible to record long shows, does that | just mean if I use the digital inputs as sources, I can't copy the disc? No. First of all, you can't use the digital inputs as sources when you're recording actual sound waves in the air (unless you use a digitizing micro- phone or an outboard ADC, but unless the outboard ADC or the digitizing microphone's ADC is enormously superior to the MD recorder's ADC, that's just a silly thing to do, because of SCMS), so your recording of the show will always allow one generation of further digital copying. Digital transfers are only for copying material that is already digitized: from a CD, a DAT, another MD, a DCC, or a digital satellite tuner. Usually, if you want to make a lot of copies, you'll keep copying your earliest-generation source. Say you have an MD and want to make six copies: you'll copy the first one six times. You won't copy it once, copy the second to make the third, copy the third to make the fourth, etc. So unless you're in a trading tree extended generations don't usually come about. For people in trading trees, there are SCMS strippers and some tricks one can use, but one thing about MD is that ATRAC is a lossy compression system, so with each generation (especially the first MD recorded from the uncompressed source) there is some slight infidelity, and MD trading trees aren't very deep. (Even that has exceptions, for there are professional-grade duplicators that copy the ATRACked data bit-for-bit without decompressing and recompressing.) | Why would you need this, maybe the analog is better because you can copy it. Sometimes; a lot depends on the particulars of the situation. | What if you have a mixture on the same disc? Each segment of each track has its own SCMS status regardless of other tracks on the disc or other segments in the track. If you are playing a whole disc straight through and copying digitally to another MD, SCMS will make the target unit pause during uncopyable segments but will allow it to record during copyable segments. | Do md recorders let you copy discs onto each other? If you use two units or a dual deck, yes. Within a single-disc unit, no. | What is this feature I hear about called test mode for anyways? For seeing and changing internal firmware parameters, and for getting yourself into trouble if you haven't yet learned what you're doing. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: scms
What is the idea of this scms thing? I'm thinking about getting an md recorder, and want maximum time possible to record long shows, does that just mean if I use the digital inputs as sources, I can't copy the disc? Why would you need this, maybe the analog is better because you can copy it. What if you have a mixture on the same disc? Do md recorders let you copy discs onto each other? What is this feature I hear about called test mode for anyways? - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS on CD-R???
=== The original message was multipart MIME=== === All non-text parts (attachments) have been removed === Hey guys,=20 i just borrowed a cd from a friend and i tried to record it via a = Optical out on my cd player to my portable.. and it said "NO COPY" and made like 7 tracks but all like 1 sec long or = whatever.. so i looked at the Disc and it's a MAXELL CD-R74MU which is the MUSIC = only CD-R's which i guess was made on a cd recorder deck for stereo's not a computer one. do = these CD-R decks pass SCMS on or does it make the SCMS bits on the CD-R?? hope you guys can help. guess i = can just rip all these songs to my h/d and recorder thru my hoontech digital output :) Wallace === MIME part removed : text/html; === - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS Stripper - Audio Alchemy DTI
Hello. I saw a recent post regarding scsm strippers and thought that the following eBay auction would be of interest to some of those on this list. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=183042891 Sorry for any intrusion. -Matt - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS on CD-R???
Wallace Choi wrote: > i just borrowed a cd from a friend and i tried to record it via a = > Optical out on my cd player to my portable.. > and it said "NO COPY" Yes. Those "consumer" CD recorders add SCMS. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS and DVD's
At 05:43 PM 8/31/99 +1000, Col wrote: > >Andres Mino wrote: > >>Hi, I heard that the ProspecMSP730 Digital Signal Processor do NOT decode >>the protection that DVD digital audio has. > >The only protection that the digital output of a DVD player has from >recording is SCMS. If you are playing a DVD audio disc and find that you >can't record it, either it is SCMS final in which case a stripper will fix >it, it is a sample rate that your recorder cannot handle, or it is a >compressed format such as DTS or AC-3. Most DVD players can downsample 96 >KHz audio for S/PDIF output, and can decode AC-3 2.0 to normal 2 channel >LPCM, which will then be recordable by your MD deck. If the DVD contains >three or more channels of audio and the player is outputting the raw coded >data, you'll need a digital amp with the facility to decode, downmix, and >digitally output the sound in order to record it. And just to add that all DVD video discs I have tried prohibit digital audio copying. i.e. they are SCMS zero, even when conversion is done from AC-3 to PCM, or when PCM is present on the disc. Of course, analogue copies are possible, and with a 24 bit DAC rated for 96kHz, they would be pretty good analogue copies. (Recorder permitting, naturally.) -- Archer http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/6413/ End. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS and DVD's
Andres Mino wrote: >Hi, I heard that the ProspecMSP730 Digital Signal Processor do NOT decode >the protection that DVD digital audio has. The only protection that the digital output of a DVD player has from recording is SCMS. If you are playing a DVD audio disc and find that you can't record it, either it is SCMS final in which case a stripper will fix it, it is a sample rate that your recorder cannot handle, or it is a compressed format such as DTS or AC-3. Most DVD players can downsample 96 KHz audio for S/PDIF output, and can decode AC-3 2.0 to normal 2 channel LPCM, which will then be recordable by your MD deck. If the DVD contains three or more channels of audio and the player is outputting the raw coded data, you'll need a digital amp with the facility to decode, downmix, and digitally output the sound in order to record it. -cb - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS and DVD's
Hi, I heard that the ProspecMSP730 Digital Signal Processor do NOT decode the protection that DVD digital audio has. Does anybody knows a way to go around that protection from the Digitial Output of a DVD player to record on a MD using a standard TOSLink?? Is the only answer to use standard RCA analog connections?? Your feedback would be greatly appreciated... Regards, AM - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS
ata had a "time code" like 8mm's R.C. Time code. Every frame would have the time attatched to it. That would take up more space than the music itself. FOR THE SCMS on CD crowd the subcode block that immediately follows the 27 bit sync information, has 8 bits consisting of P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W. The P bit tells the player whether there is data music there or not. It is 0 (zero) wherever there is music. These serve as flags to indicate the space between tracks. They are usually 2 seconds. The Q channel (READ THIS HERE!! PERTAINS TO SCMS ON CD's) contains several functions. 1) control 2) Address 3) Q data 4) Error detection code. The 3rd bit in the control channel part of the Q data channel (which consists of 98 bit chunks gather 1 bit at a time from the frames) is the COPY BIT. When it is set to 0 NO COPY. When it is set to 1 COPY PERMIT. -Seth p.s. if you really want to know all there is to know get the book The Compact Disc Handbook by Ken Pohlmann. There are all sorts of diagram as to what I am saying. _ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----- To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ See the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) for further details of the MiniDisc Mailing List. See the MiniDisc Community Page for more general MiniDisc information. MD: SCMS info (no opinions, just info) _ From Seth Lacy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:11:28 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ First off SCMS had a provision made for it in the very beginning all they way back to the first CD's. Copy protection bits are in the red-book CD format decided on in 1980. To clarify all this stuff that I've seen about SCMS let me share the information that is sitting on the SPDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format) spec sheet. The SCMS data is not two bits next to each other. SCMS is contained in bits 0, 2 and 15 of the control word that is in the 98 bit subcode block found on all digital audio devices. Bit 0 must be set to 0 indicating a consumer interface. Bit 2 is a copyright bit. Second generation copying can't occur if the bit is 0. (Almost all CD's are apparently set to 0) Bit 15 indicates whether the program is original or copied. A CD player outputs 0 for itself about a cd, but a MD/DAT records a 1. All other category codes other than CD (defined in bits 8-14) work the opposite. When a CD (with bit2 = 0 and bit 15 = 0 is copied digitally, with bit 0 = 0 (on consumer equiptment), the data from the cd is thought of as original and 1 copy is allowed. The recorder will set bit 15 to 0, marking it as copied, preventing a copy. If the CD's bit15 = 1 than no copied are allowed. If the CD's bit2 = infinite copies are allowed. -Seth I will post the entire SPDIF subcode block later. _ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ See the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) for further details of the MiniDisc Mailing List. See the MiniDisc Community Page for more general MiniDisc information. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS
Hi all, just a question: How is SCMS-information stored on CD's and pre-recorded MD's? Tanx... Joost ->Don't mind my grammar... __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS, and 76 minute cd's
At 11:26 AM 8/10/99 -0500, DWT wrote: >If the EP is on a digital medium, yes, it is possible that its SCMS bits were >set for unrestricted recopying. EP is a left over term from the vinyl days. It is used these days to mean a short album, usually of seven or eight three to four minute tracks. Typically they are rare or unrelated materials that have been compiled together. Live EPs are also common. >There are ways to tweak the CD standard to fit in up to about 81 minutes. >Many of the CDs in my collection exceed 79 minutes (though copying them to >a 74m59s MD would be no problem as almost all of those include some mono >material). > >Somewhere on the net there used to be a page listing the longest CDs, and >some exceeded eighty minutes. Except that once my Sony Midi system listed the length of a regular 74 minute CD as 80:08. I tried again, and it came to its senses. :-) -- Archer http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/6413/ End. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: SCMS, and 76 minute cd's
You are correct. The copy will have the same bits as the original so it won't affect the burn (it never does) but it will affect recording via S/PDIF connections. Adios, LarZ --- TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums --- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of PrinceGaz Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 1999 6:56 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: MD: SCMS, and 76 minute cd's I think I know the answer to this but will ask anyway-- can SCMS final discs be copied onto another CD using a CD-R(W) drive? I'd be using something like Adaptec Direct CD or Adaptec Easy CD Creator software that came with the CD-RW drive (can't remember which one does a disk copy just now) My guess is I get an exact copy of the disc and SCMS is irrelevant to the copy action, but SCMS status is preserved in the copy so the new disc will have the limitations of the original. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS, and 76 minute cd's
I think I know the answer to this but will ask anyway-- can SCMS final discs be copied onto another CD using a CD-R(W) drive? I'd be using something like Adaptec Direct CD or Adaptec Easy CD Creator software that came with the CD-RW drive (can't remember which one does a disk copy just now) My guess is I get an exact copy of the disc and SCMS is irrelevant to the copy action, but SCMS status is preserved in the copy so the new disc will have the limitations of the original. Cheers, PrinceGaz -- "if it harms none, do what you will" Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://website.lineone.net/~princegaz/ ICQ: 36892193 From: Tony Antoniou <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > If the SCMS bits haven't been set to "no copy", then it will allow a copy of > the CD's contents. In the case of V2 whose CD's are set to no copy rather > than copy-once, that's where the problem arises. When burning a copy of the > CD, rather than copying a mirror image, you would have to extract all tracks > to your HD and then make an audio CD from those tracks. That way, SCMS > doesn't even come into the picture. That's how you would circumvent it, > aside from getting an SCMS defeater. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS, and 76 minute cd's
Benk wrote, | I made a copy CD copy of Beastie Boys Root Down EP. It was made on Ricoh(I | think) CD burner. Im not sure the exact process used, but anyway, I can | make digital copies to MD from this CD copy. I thought that SCMS prevented | this. Either I am mistaken or, the Beastie Boys didn't set their SCMS. Is the Ricoh a standalone CD recorder, or is it a computer peripheral? If it's a computer peripheral, then it is not subject to SCMS (nor protected from suit under the AHRA). And in what format was the EP? In my youth an "EP" was a tightly-grooved vinyl 45 that fit two songs on each side. If you made the CD from an analog signal, even obeying SCMS, the SCMS bits of the CD would properly be set to allow one further generation of copying. That would explain how you were able to copy the CD to MD. If the EP is on a digital medium, yes, it is possible that its SCMS bits were set for unrestricted recopying. | Also, I recently bought Ramones Mania, and when I put it into the CD player | it said it was 76 minutes long. I thought maybe it was some mistake, so I | copied it to MD and sure enough, it wouldn't fit. There are ways to tweak the CD standard to fit in up to about 81 minutes. Many of the CDs in my collection exceed 79 minutes (though copying them to a 74m59s MD would be no problem as almost all of those include some mono material). Somewhere on the net there used to be a page listing the longest CDs, and some exceeded eighty minutes. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: SCMS, and 76 minute cd's
If the SCMS bits haven't been set to "no copy", then it will allow a copy of the CD's contents. In the case of V2 whose CD's are set to no copy rather than copy-once, that's where the problem arises. When burning a copy of the CD, rather than copying a mirror image, you would have to extract all tracks to your HD and then make an audio CD from those tracks. That way, SCMS doesn't even come into the picture. That's how you would circumvent it, aside from getting an SCMS defeater. Adios, LarZ --- TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums --- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 1999 23:49 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:MD: SCMS, and 76 minute cd's I made a copy CD copy of Beastie Boys Root Down EP. It was made on Ricoh(I think) CD burner. Im not sure the exact process used, but anyway, I can make digital copies to MD from this CD copy. I thought that SCMS prevented this. Either I am mistaken or, the Beastie Boys didn't set their SCMS. BTW I'm using a Technics 6-CD changer, and an MZ-r30, through an optical connection. Also, I recently bought Ramones Mania, and when I put it into the CD player it said it was 76 minutes long. I thought maybe it was some mistake, so I copied it to MD and sure enough, it wouldn't fit. If anyone has any comments on these subjects, I would appreciate it. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS, and 76 minute cd's
I made a copy CD copy of Beastie Boys Root Down EP. It was made on Ricoh(I think) CD burner. Im not sure the exact process used, but anyway, I can make digital copies to MD from this CD copy. I thought that SCMS prevented this. Either I am mistaken or, the Beastie Boys didn't set their SCMS. BTW I'm using a Technics 6-CD changer, and an MZ-r30, through an optical connection. Also, I recently bought Ramones Mania, and when I put it into the CD player it said it was 76 minutes long. I thought maybe it was some mistake, so I copied it to MD and sure enough, it wouldn't fit. If anyone has any comments on these subjects, I would appreciate it. Benk - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS and digital radio receivers
Strange... What's the bloody point of having a digital music station that you can't record off of? "just to listen to" ? ha! I assume you can have an indirect source monitoring the signal and then record it (analog)? -sb -> Wondering why anyone would ever actively *choose* to listen to Muzak... Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Steven Brooks/HOME_OFF/AGLIFE) Subject: Re: MD: SCMS and digital radio receivers On Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:47:08 +1000 "Simon Mackay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: /|\/|\ 1) A DSS receiver with SP-DIF output tuned to a Music Choice or similar service /|\/|\ A lot of people I know have checked on this and they have all reported that, regardless of service (MusicChoice on DirecTV, Muzak on DiSH or Galaxie on that Canadian DBS), the receivers won't pass optical audio out on the music only channels. However, all the other (poorer sounding) channels all do allow audio output. ~Zach o/~ she's sick of all the formula bands, for something not quite so bland o/~ o/~ no more New Kids on the Block, she loves to hear the discobigrock o/~ o/~ her favourite band is Sonic Youth, well at least she tells the truth o/~ o/~ the girls at school they love Take That, and Mark Owen is the name of the cat, name of the cat o/~ ___ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: SCMS and digital radio receivers
Hi Simon, FYI I have a Sony DSS SAT-A2 with a "Digital Out (Optical)". Let me quote some lines on the manual: "The digital audio output connector allows you to connect a digital audio component that has a digital optical audio input connector, such as a MiniDisc (MD) or digital audio tape (DAT) recorder. NOTE: The digital audio component must have a digital input frequency of 48 kHz." This DSS receiver is a second generation and I know that sony has released already a fifth generation receiver with Dolby Digital but I am not sure if it has optical outputs, my thoughts from what I've heard is that they don't put them anymore. I've been able to record from MusicChoice a bunch of MD's with my R50 portable recorder and they sound really good. Hope it helps... Regards, AM -Original Message- From: MD IT [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 3:25 PM Subject: Re: MD: SCMS and digital radio receivers On Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:47:08 +1000 "Simon Mackay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: /|\/|\ 1) A DSS receiver with SP-DIF output tuned to a Music Choice or similar service /|\/|\ A lot of people I know have checked on this and they have all reported that, regardless of service (MusicChoice on DirecTV, Muzak on DiSH or Galaxie on that Canadian DBS), the receivers won't pass optical audio out on the music only channels. However, all the other (poorer sounding) channels all do allow audio output. ~Zach o/~ she's sick of all the formula bands, for something not quite so bland o/~ o/~ no more New Kids on the Block, she loves to hear the discobigrock o/~ o/~ her favourite band is Sonic Youth, well at least she tells the truth o/~ o/~ the girls at school they love Take That, and Mark Owen is the name of the cat, name of the cat o/~ ___ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS and digital radio receivers
>>>"the receivers won't pass optical audio out on the music only channels. However, >all the other (poorer sounding) channels all do allow audio output. <<< I hate to argue, but this is untrue. I have an RCA DSS, and I record Music Choice like it is going out of style! I use the optical connector exclusively, so I know this works. The recording artist should be jumping up and down that their songs get played on DSS, because only when something is broadcast digitally are they entitled to royalties under 17 USC 106(6). The song author gets paid, too, of course. Only the record companies are left out in the cold, which is why they fight tooth and nail against technologies like MP3, Music Choice, MDs, and DATs. Death to the bourgeois! dewayne - >>> MD IT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 08/04/99 02:25PM >>> On Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:47:08 +1000 "Simon Mackay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: /|\/|\ 1) A DSS receiver with SP-DIF output tuned to a Music Choice or similar service /|\/|\ A lot of people I know have checked on this and they have all reported that, regardless of service (MusicChoice on DirecTV, Muzak on DiSH or Galaxie on that Canadian DBS), the receivers won't pass optical audio out on the music only channels. However, all the other (poorer sounding) channels all do allow audio output. ~Zach - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: SCMS and digital radio receivers
On Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:47:08 +1000 "Simon Mackay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: /|\/|\ 1) A DSS receiver with SP-DIF output tuned to a Music Choice or similar service /|\/|\ A lot of people I know have checked on this and they have all reported that, regardless of service (MusicChoice on DirecTV, Muzak on DiSH or Galaxie on that Canadian DBS), the receivers won't pass optical audio out on the music only channels. However, all the other (poorer sounding) channels all do allow audio output. ~Zach o/~ she's sick of all the formula bands, for something not quite so bland o/~ o/~ no more New Kids on the Block, she loves to hear the discobigrock o/~ o/~ her favourite band is Sonic Youth, well at least she tells the truth o/~ o/~ the girls at school they love Take That, and Mark Owen is the name of the cat, name of the cat o/~ ___ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: SCMS and digital radio receivers
Hi everyone! I have raised the SCMS and digital radio issue some time ago, as regards to what is allowed under the logic. I have read a few on-line manuals for MiniDisc equipment and some manufacturers like JVC have not put the digital-radio situation into the SCMS explanation section of the manual. Does this imply that these MiniDisc units will blindly treat SP-DIF signals emanating from a digital radio tuner as CD signals and therefore prohibit digital copying of the recording; or will they allow for an extra recording generation as what is documented in Philips and Sony digital recorder manuals. Also, how does the SCMS logic treat a recording made from any of the following new digital-radio situations: 1) A DSS receiver with SP-DIF output tuned to a Music Choice or similar service 2) A DAB tuner with SP-DIF output, like the Arcam Alpha 10 DRT 3) A European DVB-based digital satellite receiver with SP-DIF output tuned to a Music Choice or similar service or 4) Any "digital cable radio" box with SP-DIF output. I am assuming the units are set up to record a "regular" music service rather than a "premium" or "pay per listen" music service. With regards, Simon Mackay - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: SCMS hacking on 520 and MD-MT15
Hi all! >Now, on a 520 you can change the SCMS status of an existing >recording; >it's >a slow, involved process, and I did it only once to see if it could >be >done. >However, it works only on recordable MDs; if your source is an SCMS->final >CD or an SCMS-final premastered MD (if such things exist), it won't >help. I bought a 520 some months ago. How can i change the SCMS-status? >hey, anyone have any experience with sharp's md-mt15? or know an >unbiased >review source? I got the MT15 some weeks ago, and i am very happy with it. It has a good sound quality, all edit-functions (including name-stamp) and Digital input, headphones out, and mic input. 24bit atrac, but it comes without any accesoires (remote, adapter, battery). The MT20 is about the same as the MD15, but it comes with all the accesoires.. Greetz, Joost (Don't mind my bad English, i live in the Netherlands) ;-) __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
