RE: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Chad Gombosi]

In my previous post when I mentioned that Apple has never sold a sub-$1000 
G3, I was refering to tower-style G3s, not iMacs. Apple, and just about 
everyone else refers to iMacs as "iMacs", not "G3" despite the fact that 
most have G3 chips in them. The name of the iMac is "iMac", look at the size 
of the box. The name of the G3 tower is "G3" (also refer to box).

Chad Gombosi
Member SCP www.scponline.net
Chad's Game Music Page www.chadsgamemusic.com
MP3.com page: www.mp3.com/signofzeta

"Let me explain a couple of things. Time is short. That's the
first thing. For the weasel, Time is a weasel. For the hero,
Time is heroic. For the whore, Time is just another trick.
If you're gentle, your Time is gentle. If you're in a hurry,
Time flies. Time is a servant, if you are its master. Time
is your god, if you are its dog. We are the creators of Time,
the victims of Time, and the killers of Time. Time is timeless.
That's the second thing. You are the clock, Cassiel."

Emit - Far Away So Close


>Right now apple is selling the lowest end iMac for 900 USD. (www.apple.com)
>Their low end iMac comes with a g3 CPU running at 400 mHz and is Indigo
>colored.


>>Well the wierd thing here is that you must have been buying these G3s when
>>they were rather old because there has never been a G3 with a list price 
>>of
>>less than $1000 US from Apple, this price would have had to have been from 
>>a
>>retailer with a good mark down sale.




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RE: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Aileen Chen]

Right now apple is selling the lowest end iMac for 900 USD. (www.apple.com)
Their low end iMac comes with a g3 CPU running at 400 mHz and is Indigo
colored.
And also comes with 2 USB ports and 2 FireWire ports. Which, IMO, makes it a
good cheap DV Editing computer.  Most low-end PCs do not come with a
FireWire card. Heck, most computers in general don't come with one.
(Excluding Sony and their i.Link)

Aileen
>>
Well the wierd thing here is that you must have been buying these G3s when
they were rather old because there has never been a G3 with a list price of
less than $1000 US from Apple, this price would have had to have been from a
retailer with a good mark down sale.
-
>800 MHz PIII, 64 MB RAM, 10 GB HD, 15 in. monitor: 1,200 USD.
>400 MHz Ruby G3, 64 MB RAM, 10 GB HD,  built in monitor: 900 USD.
>
>Those were the list prices our distributors (HP and Apple) gave us
>(remember, in Mexico). I know, I know. There are cheaper PCs. But we cannot
>switch brands or use clones, at least until next year (sigh).

---

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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Ed Heckman]

on 5/9/01 7:50 PM, Tk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> If you did it that route, to make it a better purchase... you can also buy
> an Oxford911 bridge based Firewire enclosure put the old drive in. So
> you'll have a nice external storage and still saved some extra bucks on top
> of what apple is chargin... and the added bonus of an external HD.

After I recover from the overall shock of spending that much money at once.
;-)



 Ed "What the" Heckman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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| people are.  |
|-- Senator Phil Gramm |
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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Tk]

>I just bought a new PowerBook G4 with a 500 MHz processor and as little RAM
>and the smallest hard drive Apple ships in it. Then I added third party RAM
>and a different hard drive. The end result is that I spent a couple hundred
>less than Apple's loaded configuration and I wound up with a twice and much
>RAM and a bigger, faster hard drive to boot.
>
>In short, it IS possible to overspend on a Mac. But it's also possible to
>configure a Mac at highly competitive prices.

If you did it that route, to make it a better purchase... you can also buy
an Oxford911 bridge based Firewire enclosure put the old drive in. So
you'll have a nice external storage and still saved some extra bucks on top
of what apple is chargin... and the added bonus of an external HD.


tk
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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Dan Frakes]

"Francisco J. Huerta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>The entire "evaluation" you conducted was flawed, since you 
>>"evaluated" PowerBooks using PC users.
>
>Then you missed the whole point of the evaluation.. I wanted to have 
>a hybrid network at my office. I wanted to give Macs to people at the 
>web design department; these people have used PCs all their lives. I 
>really, truly wanted to give Macs a chance; I figured, if Macs are as 
>good as people say they are, everyone will want to switch.

Exactly my point... you "evaluated" Macs using people who "have used PCs 
all their lives." It's a well-established fact, in any industry, that 
people dislike doing things differently than they are accustomed to. So 
I'm not surprised in the least that your users didn't like Macs. A valid 
evaluation would be to give people who have never used a computer both 
platforms.

>Seriously, the techie guy at Apple that was assigned to us accepted 
>that Macs had fallen way behind in their GUI, and that just lately 
>they begun catching up with Windows. Don't blame me, they were the 
>ones who accepted it.

LOL... fallen way behind in their GUI? Most Mac users, and most objective 
Windows users even, would dispute that assertion. Windows is WAY better 
than it used to be, but even now it is finally getting UI features that 
other OS's (Mac, Be) have had for years. It's comparable to the Mac for 
new users. But far ahead?

>True. That's one of the reasons we didn't buy the Macs after all; 
>people wanted to work, not to learn a new system.

Which makes sense.

>The other major reason was that we have been let down way too many 
>times by Apple in the past. We still have 28 Macs lying around that 
>Apple couldn't and wouldn't fix (Apple Mexico, that is). Just the 
>facts.

You're not the first. Apple has a history of poor relations with large 
accounts.


>With a few PC apps? Sorry, but I could only find Macromedia and some 
>Office stuff. Our database won't run on Apple (Progress). Our ASP 
>won't run on a Mac (Citrix). Nor the clients for those apps. Sun and 
>Windows NT will. This is enterprise stuff, not the apps you would run 
>on your home-home office.

And for you, that makes complete sense. But for the average person, the 
average business, your assertion, which you made generally, that Macs are 
incompatible is simply not valid. In your case, you're using very 
specific software that most businesses will never use.



Chad Gombosi wrote:
>Well the wierd thing here is that you must have been buying these G3s 
>when they were rather old because there has never been a G3 with a 
>list price of less than $1000 US from Apple, this price would have 
>had to have been from a retailer with a good mark down sale.

There have actually been three models of iMac that have/had a MSRP of 
under $1,000. Most vendors sold them for less, or included free RAM or 
printers.


>Basicly right now a top of the line G4 will run you about $3000 (no 
>monitor). It's hard to spend that much on a PC if you tried, without 
>getting RAID arrays and high-end server cases with multiple power 
>supplies, quad proccessors etc.

But you're talking top of the line... who actually buys top of the line? 
An iMac is $899, and a really nice G4 runs from $1699 to $3499... and 
that $3499 model is a full multimedia authoring machine with capabilities 
that no production PC on the planet can do.

It's actually very easy to spend $3,000 on a brand-name PC if you include 
the same features. The fact is that nowadays, there is very little 
hardware cost difference between Macs and similarly equipped brand-name 
PCs (Dell, Compaq, Gateway, HP, etc.), especially if you avoid the Apple 
Store. As someone else mentioned, you can always go cheaper by buying 
no-name PCs or custom-built machines. But that's a fringe market. People 
who do that will never buy a Mac, or even a Dell or Gateway.

OK, I think we've officially gone way off-topic now ;)
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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Ed Heckman]

on 5/8/01 11:41 PM, Chad Gombosi at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Well the wierd thing here is that you must have been buying these G3s when
> they were rather old because there has never been a G3 with a list price of
> less than $1000 US from Apple, this price would have had to have been from a
> retailer with a good mark down sale.
> 
> With this is mind, I'm left wondering how old the Mac was at the time,
> compared to the PC.

He's describing the current low end iMac. And that price is the current
price from Apple's online store. (No markdown.)

> Basicly right now a top of the line G4 will run you about $3000 (no
> monitor). It's hard to spend that much on a PC if you tried, without getting
> RAID arrays and high-end server cases with multiple power supplies, quad
> proccessors etc.

For the last couple of years, Macs have been competitively priced in
comparison to first and second tier Wintel machines. But there's no way they
can beat the price of el-cheapo vendors and hand-built machines. (In the
case of a hand-built machine, there's no labor involved in the price paid.
So how much is your time worth?)

I just bought a new PowerBook G4 with a 500 MHz processor and as little RAM
and the smallest hard drive Apple ships in it. Then I added third party RAM
and a different hard drive. The end result is that I spent a couple hundred
less than Apple's loaded configuration and I wound up with a twice and much
RAM and a bigger, faster hard drive to boot.

In short, it IS possible to overspend on a Mac. But it's also possible to
configure a Mac at highly competitive prices.



 Ed "What the" Heckman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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| replaced by anything else.   |
|  -- A. Bartlett Giamatti |
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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Ed Heckman]

on 5/8/01 12:25 PM, Francisco J. Huerta at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>> Sorry, but that is just incorrect. If you mean "incompatible with a few
>> PC-only applications, yes."
> 
> With a few PC apps? Sorry, but I could only find Macromedia and some Office
> stuff. Our database won't run on Apple (Progress). Our ASP won't run on a
> Mac (Citrix). Nor the clients for those apps. Sun and Windows NT will. This
> is enterprise stuff, not the apps you would run on your home-home office.

For the record, those aren't the only choices for similar technologies. The
goal of using computers is TO GET WORK DONE, and usually for tasks that are
common across most offices. In your case, the people who implemented the
system chose software that's (mostly) Windows only. There is no way that
Macs will fit into that environment without changing the software used for
everyone. But the same would also hold true in a Mac only environment where
the software a company is using runs only on Macs.

I'm a consultant who does custom database development in 4th Dimension. (4D
is a powerful cross-platform, client-server database system. For more info,
see .)


4D's biggest advantage is that it's not SQL. 4Ds biggest disadvantage is
that it's not SQL. :-) In other words, because it's not SQL, it can do
things that SQL can't and the overall costs are almost always much lower.
But if being a SQL system is more important than other considerations, then
4D won't be chosen. That's life. The same type of comparison can be made
between Macs and Windows.


Back to the point I was starting to make. Changing internal systems just to
accommodate a different computing platform is the *wrong* reason to go
through such a painful and expensive change. Correct reasons include
reducing costs, increasing reliability, doing things that can't be done with
the old system, the need to support changing standards, etc. It doesn't
sound like these things held true in your case. In that case, the
"experiment" to integrate Macs into your environment was doomed from the
beginning.

But back to MiniDiscs and Sony in general. Overall, I haven't had any
particular problems with Sony equipment. I absolutely HATED the End Search
button with a passion. But my R50 and now my R900 are working just fine. On
the other hand, I don't usually buy Sony products because other
manufacturers often (but not always) offer more bang for the buck.



 Ed "What the" Heckman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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| merely because it comes late.|
| -- Felix Frankfurter |
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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Francisco J. Huerta]

> >800 MHz PIII, 64 MB RAM, 10 GB HD, 15 in. monitor: 1,200 USD.
> >400 MHz Ruby G3, 64 MB RAM, 10 GB HD,  built in monitor: 900 USD.
> >
> >Those were the list prices our distributors (HP and Apple) gave us
> >(remember, in Mexico). I know, I know. There are cheaper PCs. But we
cannot
> >switch brands or use clones, at least until next year (sigh).
>
>
>
> Well the wierd thing here is that you must have been buying these G3s when
> they were rather old because there has never been a G3 with a list price
of
> less than $1000 US from Apple, this price would have had to have been from
a
> retailer with a good mark down sale.

Remember, Apple wanted our business... they might have been artificially
lowering the price of their equipment in order to get us hooked. Happens all
the time.

Francisco.

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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Chad Gombosi]

>
>800 MHz PIII, 64 MB RAM, 10 GB HD, 15 in. monitor: 1,200 USD.
>400 MHz Ruby G3, 64 MB RAM, 10 GB HD,  built in monitor: 900 USD.
>
>Those were the list prices our distributors (HP and Apple) gave us
>(remember, in Mexico). I know, I know. There are cheaper PCs. But we cannot
>switch brands or use clones, at least until next year (sigh).



Well the wierd thing here is that you must have been buying these G3s when 
they were rather old because there has never been a G3 with a list price of 
less than $1000 US from Apple, this price would have had to have been from a 
retailer with a good mark down sale.

With this is mind, I'm left wondering how old the Mac was at the time, 
compared to the PC.

Basicly right now a top of the line G4 will run you about $3000 (no 
monitor). It's hard to spend that much on a PC if you tried, without getting 
RAID arrays and high-end server cases with multiple power supplies, quad 
proccessors etc.


Chad Gombosi
Member SCP www.scponline.net
Chad's Game Music Page www.chadsgamemusic.com
MP3.com page: www.mp3.com/signofzeta

"Let me explain a couple of things. Time is short. That's the
first thing. For the weasel, Time is a weasel. For the hero,
Time is heroic. For the whore, Time is just another trick.
If you're gentle, your Time is gentle. If you're in a hurry,
Time flies. Time is a servant, if you are its master. Time
is your god, if you are its dog. We are the creators of Time,
the victims of Time, and the killers of Time. Time is timeless.
That's the second thing. You are the clock, Cassiel."

Emit - Far Away So Close

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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Francisco J. Huerta]

>
> >Not to mention, Macs were cheaper than the PCs. They were until we
factored
> >in the cost of the software necessary to coexist with the PCs at work.
> >
> > >
>
> What? Macs cheaper than PCs? What *are* you talking about? Macs have never
> been cheaper than PCs, and they sure aren't now. I wish they were or a
> wouldn't be using a home built AMD machine at home.

800 MHz PIII, 64 MB RAM, 10 GB HD, 15 in. monitor: 1,200 USD.
400 MHz Ruby G3, 64 MB RAM, 10 GB HD,  built in monitor: 900 USD.

Those were the list prices our distributors (HP and Apple) gave us
(remember, in Mexico). I know, I know. There are cheaper PCs. But we cannot
switch brands or use clones, at least until next year (sigh).

Francisco.

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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Chad Gombosi]

>Not to mention, Macs were cheaper than the PCs. They were until we factored
>in the cost of the software necessary to coexist with the PCs at work.
>
> >

What? Macs cheaper than PCs? What *are* you talking about? Macs have never 
been cheaper than PCs, and they sure aren't now. I wish they were or a 
wouldn't be using a home built AMD machine at home.

Chad Gombosi
Member SCP www.scponline.net
Chad's Game Music Page www.chadsgamemusic.com
MP3.com page: www.mp3.com/signofzeta

"Let me explain a couple of things. Time is short. That's the
first thing. For the weasel, Time is a weasel. For the hero,
Time is heroic. For the whore, Time is just another trick.
If you're gentle, your Time is gentle. If you're in a hurry,
Time flies. Time is a servant, if you are its master. Time
is your god, if you are its dog. We are the creators of Time,
the victims of Time, and the killers of Time. Time is timeless.
That's the second thing. You are the clock, Cassiel."

Emit - Far Away So Close
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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Chad Gombosi]

>From: Dan Frakes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: MDList <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: MD: Fw: Vaio
>Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 08:44:10 -0700
>
>
>"Francisco J. Huerta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >This is not an argument to start a fight.
>
>Then maybe you should have not posted this? ;)
>
>Sorry, but I work with both systems, and I get tired of PC-centric people
>doing flawed comparisons.

I too work with both systems (I was the one who started this Vaios are crap 
thread btw). I have a Win 98 PC at home, and work with top of the line Macs 
at work every day.

The real reason I started this crap though wasn't to compare the OS, but 
rather the *hardware* itself. I was mearly stating that Vaios, and Sony 
things in general are much more remarkable in terms of design, and inovation 
that reliability.

For example, late yesterday at work we got our newest Mac. A 766 mhz G4 with 
1 GB of RAM, and a DVD-R. Yes, it rocks in a box as you might have guessed. 
The suck thing is that we bought a nice new Sony 21" monitor to go with it 
and guess what? It's defective. Every once in a while you get a shakiness 
that looks like a monitor just after it de-gauses. If you hit the POS, the 
problem goes away.

This reminds me of back when I worked selling computers, and we had this one 
guy return 3 Trinitrons before he got one that worked to his satisfaction. 
Some may say he was picky, but I would be too if I was dropping $1000 on a 
monitor and I got it home and it was blury, or it was impossible to get a 
square image.

A Trinitron in working order is one of the best monitors around, but they 
also have a hidious falure rate. My friend bought a Dell a while back (also 
much better made than Sony most of the time, regardless of OS) and the 
thinly disguised Sony monitor it came with died after about 9 months. No 
picture at all.


Chad Gombosi
Member SCP www.scponline.net
Chad's Game Music Page www.chadsgamemusic.com
MP3.com page: www.mp3.com/signofzeta

"Let me explain a couple of things. Time is short. That's the
first thing. For the weasel, Time is a weasel. For the hero,
Time is heroic. For the whore, Time is just another trick.
If you're gentle, your Time is gentle. If you're in a hurry,
Time flies. Time is a servant, if you are its master. Time
is your god, if you are its dog. We are the creators of Time,
the victims of Time, and the killers of Time. Time is timeless.
That's the second thing. You are the clock, Cassiel."

Emit - Far Away So Close

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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Francisco J. Huerta]

>
> Then maybe you should have not posted this? ;)
>
> Sorry, but I work with both systems, and I get tired of PC-centric people
> doing flawed comparisons. The entire "evaluation" you conducted was
> flawed, since you "evaluated" PowerBooks using PC users.

Then you missed the whole point of the evaluation.. I wanted to have a
hybrid network at my office. I wanted to give Macs to people at the web
design department; these people have used PCs all their lives. I really,
truly wanted to give Macs a chance; I figured, if Macs are as good as people
say they are, everyone will want to switch.

Not to mention, Macs were cheaper than the PCs. They were until we factored
in the cost of the software necessary to coexist with the PCs at work.

> Of course they
> are going to dislike the interface and have the problems you menioned,
> just as a company full of Mac users is going to dislike the Windows
> interface and have technical problems with Windows if you use them to
> "evaluate" Wintel laptops.

Maybe they'd like Windows better =) No, really! I attended a System X
seminar with a bunch of Windoze geeks, and the presentation guy almost
walked away, because he always said "now, System X can do THIS!" and we
always countered "Just like Windows!".

Seriously, the techie guy at Apple that was assigned to us accepted that
Macs had fallen way behind in their GUI, and that just lately they begun
catching up with Windows. Don't blame me, they were the ones who accepted
it.

> The simple truth is that people are
> comfortable with what they learned, and a change will almost always be
> met with resistance, especially in the beginning.

True. That's one of the reasons we didn't buy the Macs after all; people
wanted to work, not to learn a new system. The other major reason was that
we have been let down way too many times by Apple in the past. We still have
28 Macs lying around that Apple couldn't and wouldn't fix (Apple Mexico,
that is). Just the facts.


> BTW, the "death blow" being end users complaining because they couldn't
> open exe files received through email? ROFL... about the only executable
> files people receive through email are virii and "joke" programs. Hmmm...

Ahem... ever heard of C++ files? We use those all the times as macros. True,
people could always learn whatever scripting language Apple offers, or
re-compile their apps in System X. Not worth it.

> Sorry, but that is just incorrect. If you mean "incompatible with a few
> PC-only applications, yes."

With a few PC apps? Sorry, but I could only find Macromedia and some Office
stuff. Our database won't run on Apple (Progress). Our ASP won't run on a
Mac (Citrix). Nor the clients for those apps. Sun and Windows NT will. This
is enterprise stuff, not the apps you would run on your home-home office.

> You want to use PCs, or Macs, that's great. But let's drop these flawed
> "well, I did an evaluation" arguments --

Because if we continue with them, people will notice the computer is not the
goal... it's the tool to get there. Had I started a network from scratch,
probably Apple would have prevailed (I'd still need some Sun servers, but
then again, who doesn't? =)

Sadly, someone mentioned wanting to replace a PC laptop with a PowerBook...
i just explained how I tried to do the same, and the reasons why I failed.
Nothing else, nothing more.

Take care!

Francisco.

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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Dan Frakes]

"Francisco J. Huerta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>This is not an argument to start a fight.

Then maybe you should have not posted this? ;)

Sorry, but I work with both systems, and I get tired of PC-centric people 
doing flawed comparisons. The entire "evaluation" you conducted was 
flawed, since you "evaluated" PowerBooks using PC users. Of course they 
are going to dislike the interface and have the problems you menioned, 
just as a company full of Mac users is going to dislike the Windows 
interface and have technical problems with Windows if you use them to 
"evaluate" Wintel laptops. The simple truth is that people are 
comfortable with what they learned, and a change will almost always be 
met with resistance, especially in the beginning.

BTW, the "death blow" being end users complaining because they couldn't 
open exe files received through email? ROFL... about the only executable 
files people receive through email are virii and "joke" programs. Hmmm...

Database problems, and PC-specific software -- now there is a reason that 
I can understand -- that is a logical reason to go with a Wintel PC. But 
the other reasons...

>A Mac is a good, albeit uncompatible, out of standard (and in many 
>cases out of touch) computer.

Sorry, but that is just incorrect. If you mean "incompatible with a few 
PC-only applications, yes." But the Mac is just as standards-compliant as 
any Windows PC, cross-platform compatible, and hardly "out of touch." LOL 
 And in terms of software availability, apart from a few high-end 
databases and CAD applications, pretty much anything you can do on 
Windows you can do on a Macintosh (although WebObjects is better than any 
PC-only solution). And in some industries (graphic design, education, 
multimedia) a good argument can be made for the opposite conclusion -- 
that the PC is 

You want to use PCs, or Macs, that's great. But let's drop these flawed 
"well, I did an evaluation" arguments -- let people go try a computer on 
their own, armed with facts. These "my computer is better than your 
computer for these reasons" mailing list debates are so... 1980s ;)
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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Stainless Steel Rat]

* "Chad Gombosi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  on Sun, 06 May 2001
| Well I think of all laptops as fragile in the regular sense, I mean they
| have huge LCDs, DVD ROM, and hard drives, etc, what I mean is that they
| are particulary fragile. They will just breakdown just sitting there, or
| from very light bumbs. No carbon fiber chasis like the G4. :)

I think you are either mistaken or misled.  I own two Sony notebooks, and
neither have exhibited the behaviour you have described.  The one problem I
have with my PCG-505TS is one of the hinges is lose, and that is due to
opening and closing the lid several times a day for two years.

I currently carry around a PCG-SR17.  The 505TS is now my personal news
server at home, and sits there on a shelf, running 24x7, and has been like
that for four or five months now.

There are also several Sony notebooks roaming around where I work,
including a Picture Book model.  Only one has failed, and that was a
defective battery pack.
-- 
Rat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>\ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ 

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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Francisco J. Huerta]

> For a better product all around, go here:
>
> http://www.apple.com/powerbook/
>
> There uses to be a direct comparison to a Vaio here, but I don't know if
> it's still there.

This is not an argument to start a fight. Nevertheless, I'd like to tell you
about my personal experience with a Mac. I (and a bunch of other computer
geeks and "normal" users) evaluated them on behalf of my company (30,000
users total) against PC laptops (I won't tell what brand, but it wouldn't
matter anyway).

The result was surprising to everyone. Nobody (not even the end users) liked
either the PowerBook, the iMac, or the G4s. At first it was love at first
sight. Then everyone noticed how they could do everything a PC did. Then
everyone had problems with memory management. Then we noticed that, in order
to make a Mac interact in a PC world, we had to buy hundreds of  in
extra software. And that users hated the interface. They did like the fancy
colors, though.

The death blow came when we received lots of complaints from users that
couldn't open the *.exe files they used to receive via e-mail, and they
hated it when we told them to fire up the Windows 98 emulator to run the
software. And also, to run all their database programs.

A Mac is a good, albeit uncompatible, out of standard (and in many cases out
of touch) computer. I would never, ever buy one for myself. And I gave it
the benefit of the doubt (I went into the test completely unbiased; in fact,
I wanted to have one at my desk because I needed some graphics design done
on it... and because of the fancy colors).

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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Chad Gombosi]

>
>How fragile is 'fragile'? Do you mean breaks sitting on a desk or carrying
>in a laptop bag, or breaks slung over your shoulder or in luggage?

Well I think of all laptops as fragile in the regular sense, I mean they 
have huge LCDs, DVD ROM, and hard drives, etc, what I mean is that they are 
particulary fragile. They will just breakdown just sitting there, or from 
very light bumbs. No carbon fiber chasis like the G4. :)


Chad Gombosi
Member SCP www.scponline.net
Chad's Game Music Page www.chadsgamemusic.com
MP3.com page: www.mp3.com/signofzeta

"Let me explain a couple of things. Time is short. That's the
first thing. For the weasel, Time is a weasel. For the hero,
Time is heroic. For the whore, Time is just another trick.
If you're gentle, your Time is gentle. If you're in a hurry,
Time flies. Time is a servant, if you are its master. Time
is your god, if you are its dog. We are the creators of Time,
the victims of Time, and the killers of Time. Time is timeless.
That's the second thing. You are the clock, Cassiel."

Emit - Far Away So Close

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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Richard 'Holy Goat' Newman]

Thanks for the reply!

> My experince with Vios (never been stupid enough to buy one myself, but I
> have sold them, and I have friends who have bought them) proves only that
> they are fragile crap.

How fragile is 'fragile'? Do you mean breaks sitting on a desk or carrying
in a laptop bag, or breaks slung over your shoulder or in luggage?

> I'm sure there will be many people here who will say how they have had
tons
> of Sony products with no problems but in advance I will say that I doubt
> either the amount of experience they have actually had with Sony stuff, or
> thier definition of "problem".

I do have to say that all of my Sony TVs, my original Walkman, Discman, and
my new R900, Sony stereos and my brother's Clie and Discmans have all
behaved impeccably. But then, laptops are a different story.

> For a better product all around, go here:
>
> http://www.apple.com/powerbook/
>
> There uses to be a direct comparison to a Vaio here, but I don't know if
> it's still there.

I would love a Powerbook, but I do too much work that's tied to Windows (C++
and Delphi programming, and game development for the platform) to change.
Ah, if only... (*dreams of a G4 cube and a titanium Powerbook*).

Thanks for your response... anyone else?

-Rich

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Re: MD: Fw: Vaio

[Chad Gombosi]

>
>Hi!
>I've been thinking about getting hold of a notebook, and as a lot of you
>will no doubt have experience with Sony products I wondered if anyone here
>had any opinions on Vaios (especially the high-end FX10*s).

My experince with Vios (never been stupid enough to buy one myself, but I 
have sold them, and I have friends who have bought them) proves only that 
they are fragile crap.

I'm a big fan of Sony's design, and inovation, (I *love* my MZR90, and my 
old D66) but the reliability of many of their products is just terrible. The 
Vaios are probably more famous for this than any other product they have 
ever made, even my DEJ815  diskman which I have replaced 3 times, or the 
original Sony Playstations in which the drives just died like flies at 
random. If you called Sony about the problem they would tell you to flip the 
unit upside down to fix the skipping. How lame is that?

One of the original model Vaios (two or three years ago) had to be totally 
recalled because the falier rate was so high. They will obviously sacrifice 
*anything* as long as the unit is thin as paper and looks cool. In the end 
though you may have only a cool looking piece of paper. There was a letter 
in an issue of T3 last year about a guy (who was, and still is a big Sony 
fan) who had problems with Sony customer serice that would reduce most 
people to violence. They actually *lost* his machine while reparing it and 
refused to replace it (!), how he can still be a Sony fan is beyond me.

I'm sure there will be many people here who will say how they have had tons 
of Sony products with no problems but in advance I will say that I doubt 
either the amount of experience they have actually had with Sony stuff, or 
thier definition of "problem".

For a better product all around, go here:

http://www.apple.com/powerbook/

There uses to be a direct comparison to a Vaio here, but I don't know if 
it's still there.

Most people are either too busy sucking Bill Gates, or to chicken to buy a 
Mac anymore, but virtually no one that does buy one regrets it.

>To tie it to MD somewhat, it appears that there's a control panel or 
>similar
>in Sony's provided software to do MD recording... anyone know anything 
>about
>that?

That would be cool, but unless there are some really nice Text Transfer 
options I don't see how it could be that great. A digital out is a digital 
out, and any software it has can be substituted. It's not worth $3000 just 
to edit MDs, at least not to me, and if it was I'd buy something else to do 
it with.

I see buying Sony stuff as a crap shoot really, which is fine with a $200 MD 
recorder, but I'm just not rich, or stupid enough to gamble the price of a 
high end laptop on Sony's terrible odds, especialy since it seems that often 
it's their more expensive stuff, not the cheap stuff, that is more fragile.




Chad Gombosi
Member SCP www.scponline.net
Chad's Game Music Page www.chadsgamemusic.com
MP3.com page: www.mp3.com/signofzeta

"Let me explain a couple of things. Time is short. That's the
first thing. For the weasel, Time is a weasel. For the hero,
Time is heroic. For the whore, Time is just another trick.
If you're gentle, your Time is gentle. If you're in a hurry,
Time flies. Time is a servant, if you are its master. Time
is your god, if you are its dog. We are the creators of Time,
the victims of Time, and the killers of Time. Time is timeless.
That's the second thing. You are the clock, Cassiel."

Emit - Far Away So Close

_
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