Re: MD: End-Search petition response

[Graham Baker]

Thanks for that - I have been wondering (and asking) if there was any
response - nice to see something, although it's not a lot...
GB

- Original Message -
From: Dan Frakes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: MDList <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, 11 August 2000 4:07
Subject: MD: End-Search petition response


>
> I didn't see anyone mention this on the list yet:
>
> 


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Re: MD: end search again and again

[J. Coon]

Jim Gray wrote:
>  But more importantly: does anyone at Sony even KNOW how much people hate
> it, or are we all making a lot of noise in the wilderness?  

I suspect they listen to Gaz and the rest of us are just a "blowin in
the wind", so to speak.   If they had any sense, or actually used their
own decks and then switched to one of their recorders, they would have
found out first hand what the problem is and would have changed it.  

I love my Sony deck and I love my Sony portable, but I sure hate the 
problems that END SEARCH has caused.  I wrecked several irreplaceable
recordings because of it, and there really is no way around it except to
immediately copy your new MD and use the copy so you have a back up when
you lose the first one.  Except the SCMS causes problems with that idea
and also I have lost recording 5 minutes after I made them, because I
was so anxious to see how the recording came out and I listened to a
song  immediately after it was recorded, stopped it in a hurry to record
the next song, and wrote over the last half of the first song ruining
it. 

--
Jim Coon
Not just another pretty mandolin picker.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If Gibson made cars, would they sound so sweet?

My first web page  

http://www.tir.com/~liteways
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Re: MD: end search petition

[Neil]

On Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:40:35 +0100 (BST), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  I've been researching which portable recorder to buy for ages now. I plan

>  to use it for sampling ambient natural sound (pretension alert?!). I need

>  a unit which has both manual and automatic gain recording, which can 
>  also be level-adjusted whilst recording. This rules out all sony machines

>  I think (I'm a prime candidate for losing stuff because of end-search,
any 
>  way) and it looks as if the Aiwa f70 and f80 models are the only ones 
>  which can do this (plus I love the jog-dial feature).

Well I've got an Aiwa F65 portable (identical to the F70, 'cept it's not
backlit), and have been well pleased with it. All the problems I've heard
from people with the main issues on other manufacturers kit, has made me
glad I chose this model.

>  BUt..
>  ..I've read lots of scary reports about them developing problems where 
>  they suddenly start erasing disc content.

As I said, my F65, is to all intents and purposes, identical to the F70, and
I've had no problems whatsoever. Can't comment on the F75 / F80, 'cept to
say they don't feel quite as robust as the F65 / F70, but that really is a
pick-up-and-look interpretation.

>  Obviously this is A Bad Thing. 
>  Admittedly, there doesn't seem to be a machine which is reported as 
>  fault-free, but I was just wondering whether anyone on this list has had 
>  experiences of this. Does the F80 model address any of these problems?
>  Most of the posts to this site seem to be from Sharp and Sony 
>  owners..maybe there's a good reason for this?! 

Most Aiwa owners I've come across have been pretty darned satisfied with
their portable. There's always gonna be exceptions, but I don't think you'll
be dissappointed with regards to function or performance. Nor do I think
they are lacking in quality compared with Sharp or Sony units.

>  Aiwa owners! PLease give me a good reason to buy one of these!

As I said, never had a moments trouble with it.

Neil





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Re: MD: end search petition

[Neil]

On Thu, 01 Jun 2000 08:08:40 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  Sean Buckingham wrote:
>  > I've been researching which portable recorder to buy for ages now. I
plan
>  > to use it for sampling ambient natural sound (pretension alert?!). I
need
>  > a unit which has both manual and automatic gain recording, which can
>  > also be level-adjusted whilst recording. This rules out all sony
machines
>  > I think 
>  
>  AFAIK, the SOny portables are the only ones with both automatic and
>  manual record level settings.

Well my Aiwa F65 does, therefore so does the F70. And I would be surprised
if these have been altered for the F75 / F80.

Neil





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Re: MD: end search petition

[Graham Baker]

From: Graham Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, 1 June 2000 8:17
Subject: Re: MD: end search petition


 Yes, how about the ability to be able to adjust manual record levels without having
 to pause recording first?
 IMHO, this Sony mis-feature is almost as daft as the end search button...

 As far as the record-pause before record thing with the Sharp portables - I have a
Sharp 701 and I don't find this function out of place with it, in fact it's necessary
 as you have to set the record levels with the Sharp (no AGC) and it's best to do
that
 before recording (but very nice to have the option to make small changes on the
fly).
 OTOH, with Sony portables and their AGC function I can see where Sony are coming
 from - for (almost) instant (panic) recording in the field, slot in your favourite
 disc, hit record and there's no worrying about having to press play again or adjust
 record levels - you will have an instant (at reasonable levels) recording...

 Ooops, I just forgot to press 'end search' - my panic recording just erased my
 previous one:-)

 GB
> - Original Message -
> From: Jonathan Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > Any other suggestions (serious ones)?
> >
> > Jonathan
>
>



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Re: MD: end search petition

[J. Coon]

Sean Buckingham wrote:
> I've been researching which portable recorder to buy for ages now. I plan
> to use it for sampling ambient natural sound (pretension alert?!). I need
> a unit which has both manual and automatic gain recording, which can
> also be level-adjusted whilst recording. This rules out all sony machines
> I think 

AFAIK, the SOny portables are the only ones with both automatic and
manual record level settings.  Contrary to what you have heard, the
Sonys do have a level adjust whilst (did I spell that right?)
recording.  There is a switch on the back of the recorder that you can
set to high or low mike sensitivity.  THis can be switched back and
forth without stoping the recording.   

If it is in automatic record level,  the gain is adjusted automatically
according to the level source of the sound.  The mike sensitivty setting
can be changed on the fly to get more range if needed.

If it is in manual record level, you have to set the level, check it to
see if it is too high, stop it and reset it if it is.  The mike
sensitivy switch still works the same way and will give you control with
out shutting the recording off.

--
Jim Coon
Not just another pretty mandolin picker.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If Gibson made cars, would they sound so sweet?

My first web page  

http://www.tir.com/~liteways
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RE: MD: end search petition

[Rahim Anderson]

Im a happy owner of an aiwa f70, and hope not to experience said problem.  I
was pointed to this unit by a friend who is quite happy with his unit, and
im happy wiht mine.  I havent heard of a disc erasure problem, though I've
only had my unit for a few months, I use it on a day in day out basis.  Id
be very unhappy if my discs did start erasing themselves. =/


BUt..
..I've read lots of scary reports about them developing problems where 
they suddenly start erasing disc content. Obviously this is A Bad Thing. 
Admittedly, there doesn't seem to be a machine which is reported as 
fault-free, but I was just wondering whether anyone on this list has had 
experiences of this. Does the F80 model address any of these problems?
Most of the posts to this site seem to be from Sharp and Sony 
owners..maybe there's a good reason for this?! 

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Re: MD: end search petition

[Sean Buckingham]

>On Wed, 31 May 2000 19:06:12 -0400 John Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> I think the system on Aiwa portables is the most intuitive of all: on the
> f70, if you slide and hold the record switch fow a few seconds, it'll go
> into record-pause. Then you could set your levels and everything. If you
> slide and release, it'll start recording immediately. Pretty smart, eh?
> -John Lee

I've been researching which portable recorder to buy for ages now. I plan 
to use it for sampling ambient natural sound (pretension alert?!). I need 
a unit which has both manual and automatic gain recording, which can 
also be level-adjusted whilst recording. This rules out all sony machines 
I think (I'm a prime candidate for losing stuff because of end-search, any 
way) and it looks as if the Aiwa f70 and f80 models are the only ones 
which can do this (plus I love the jog-dial feature).

BUt..
..I've read lots of scary reports about them developing problems where 
they suddenly start erasing disc content. Obviously this is A Bad Thing. 
Admittedly, there doesn't seem to be a machine which is reported as 
fault-free, but I was just wondering whether anyone on this list has had 
experiences of this. Does the F80 model address any of these problems?
Most of the posts to this site seem to be from Sharp and Sony 
owners..maybe there's a good reason for this?! 

Aiwa owners! PLease give me a good reason to buy one of these!

Thanks, 
SeanB


end

Sean Buckingham
Media Services
Brunel University, UK
* (Ext)2209
* (Direct) 0208 891 8264
* (e-1)[EMAIL PROTECTED]
* (e-2)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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Re: MD: end search petition

[David W. Tamkin]

Jonathan Irwin solicited,

I> Any other suggestions (serious ones)?

Jeffrey Scorsone submitted,

S> yeah, follow Sharps lead and have a menu item for timed trackmarks as
S> well as syncro start recording in analogue mode.  I love my R50, and
S> since Sony did create MD, I don't want to change brands, but I hate
S> having to envy features of the Sharp portables...

And it's ironic that Aiwa, of which Sony is the largest if not the majority
stockholder, makes a portable with both of those features.

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Re: MD: end search petition

[John Lee]

I think the system on Aiwa portables is the most intuitive of all: on the
f70, if you slide and hold the record switch fow a few seconds, it'll go
into record-pause. Then you could set your levels and everything. If you
slide and release, it'll start recording immediately. Pretty smart, eh?

-John Lee

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Re: MD: end search petition

[Graham Baker]

Yes, how about the ability to be able to adjust manual record levels without having
to pause recording first?
IMHO, this Sony mis-feature is almost as daft as the end search button...

As far as the record-pause before record thing with the Sharp portables - I have a
Sharp 701 and I don't find this function out of place with it, in fact it's necessary
as you have to set the record levels with the Sharp (no AGC) and it's best to do that
before recording (but very nice to have the option to make small changes on the fly).
OTOH, with Sony portables and their AGC function I can see where Sony are coming
from - for (almost) instant (panic) recording in the field, slot in your favourite
disc, hit record and there's no worrying about having to press play again or adjust
record levels - you will have an instant (at reasonable levels) recording...

Ooops, I just forgot to press 'end search' - my panic recording just erased my
previous one:-)

GB
- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Any other suggestions (serious ones)?
>
> Jonathan


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Re: MD: end search petition

[Jeffrey Scorsone]

On Wed, 31 May 2000, Jonathan Irwin wrote:

> 
> Any other suggestions (serious ones)?

yeah, follow Sharps lead and have a menu item for timed trackmarks as
well as syncro start recording in analogue mode.  I love my R50, and 
since Sony did create MD, I don't want to change brands, but I hate 
having to envy features of the Sharp portables...

-Jeffrey

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RE: MD: end search petition

[WZ]

> feature. Presumably when you're recording something, you need to check
> levels, inputs, etc. and in order to do this, you need the unit in
> REC-PAUSE mode.

I see this as two different approaches. I don't see any obvious
disadvantages to do either [i. going into rec-pause mode ii. recording
immediately].

I would suspect that once the behaviour of a model is accustomed to, that
anything else would be annoying.

I have a R50 and I like the immediate recording feature.  Sometimes I just
want to do a quick recording and can't be bothered to set levels...etc.  If
I want to go into rec-pause mode, I press pause-rec, instead of rec.

> pressed? I
> suspect they take a while to get started up (disc spinning etc.) before
> they do actually begin to record?? With the unit in REC-PAUSE, it

While the disc gets ready to start up and TOC read (assuming a new disc
inserted right away), the unit records immediately to buffer, so once you
hit REC, it records right away.  I would think the sharp does something
similar, or do you have to wait until the disc spins up to record anything ?

ciao,
Wayne

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Re: MD: end search petition

[Jonathan Irwin]

On Wed, 31 May 2000, Eric Woudenberg wrote:

> I should be more explicit: would Sharp owners who have lost recordings
> due to the Sharp's REC-PAUSE startup please speak up? I'm not looking
> to justify my position, I really want to know if the Sharp's mode of
> operation presents problems.

I have had a Sony MDS-JE520 for 1.5 years now and never had any problems
with going into REC-PAUSE - if I have missed a bit of material I just hit
AMS instead of Pause to restore the previous 5/6 seconds of material and
then edit the disc afterwards (this is OK unless I hit record too late
but I usually leave it in REC-PAUSE before recording so this is not a
problem).  Portables really should have this feature.

Also while we are on the `features Sony portables really should have'
thread, I have made a list.

* Add a menu option to turn off the remote `beep'

* Improve the auto track-marking features to bring them in line with decks
- ie allow user to turn track marking on and off for both analogue and
digital inputs (including adding an option to both the portables and decks
to force the unit to ignore track marks on the digital in)

* Add an optical (or coax) digital output to portables (including
play only units) and put a line level output on the play only units as
well as the recorders (unless they have done that already... my MZ-E25
doesn't have one though so I suspect they haven't).

* Put a backlight on the internal LCD

* Add menu options to allow the backlight to be turned off on the internal
and external LCDs (separately)

* Increase the length of the supplied headphone cord (the normal length
they supply is far too short... not that I use the original earbuds
anyway, but it would be useful) 

* Allow charging of the internal battery while the unit is in operation
(this will only mean supplying a higher current PSU with the unit)

And the less plausible ones...

* (Very unlikely where Sony are involved) Provide a USB interface to a
computer for >1x recording

Any other suggestions (serious ones)?

Jonathan





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Re: MD: end search petition

[Richard Wright]

At 11:46 31/05/2000 -0400, you wrote:

>Eric Woudenberg writes:
>
> >This did occur to me, but Sharp portables have always started in REC
> >PAUSE mode, and I don't hear any carping about that feature from Sharp
> >users (but now's your chance!).
>
>I should be more explicit: would Sharp owners who have lost recordings
>due to the Sharp's REC-PAUSE startup please speak up? I'm not looking
>to justify my position, I really want to know if the Sharp's mode of
>operation presents problems.

I have a Sharp 722 and I have no problem whatsoever with the unit going 
into REC-PAUSE when the REC button is pressed. In fact, I really like this 
feature. Presumably when you're recording something, you need to check 
levels, inputs, etc. and in order to do this, you need the unit in 
REC-PAUSE mode.

Do the Sonys start recording IMMEDIATELY when the REC button is pressed? I 
suspect they take a while to get started up (disc spinning etc.) before 
they do actually begin to record?? With the unit in REC-PAUSE, it is ready 
to start as soon as PAUSE is pressed.

I am a sound engineer at my local arts centre and I have recorded several 
gigs now (with the band's consent) from the mixing desk outputs (with 
excellent results, I must say) - I simply put the unit into REC-PAUSE in 
the sound check with the press of one button to check the levels as we go - 
I don't want to have to alter them during the gig. When it comes to start 
the gig later on, I get the unit ready in REC-PAUSE mode again and when the 
band are ready to play, I simply press PAUSE and away it goes.

Cheers,

Wrighty

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RE: MD: end search petition

[Simon Barnes]

Luke Rayner wrote:

> it) but the cover letter also mentioned that 'pushing 
> RECORD should place the unit into REC-PAUSE mode'(to unify it with
home decks 
> admittedly) but this was not mentioned as part of the petition

I never noticed this, and it DOES seem to exceed the remit of the petition.
I can see the argument for making portables work just like the decks, but it
can also be useful to be able to start recording with one operation. Best
solution would be a non-volatile choice between these options.

simon
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Re: MD: end search again and again

[Graham Baker]

Gaz is OK - he has his own point of view, it's just different from most
other peoples, although there are others on the list who also favour an end
search button (not me..:-)  )

Sony do tune in to this list - I know this for a fact but I don't know just
how much influence they have on the design areas.
Best thing would be to sign Rick's petition and maybe Sony will act on it.
Maybe the petition should include other features to be considered eg:
adjustable manual record levels whilst recording?
It doesn't worry me at all - I'm very happy with my Sharp 701 - it already
has these features (and more)

GB

- Original Message -
From: Jim Gray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>
> We wouldn't be arguing about end search if Gaz would stop trying to
> defend something so stupid, useless, and ergonomically idiotic, not to
> mention destructive.  I don't understand why he does this, unless he
> just likes calling people stupid and arguing with them.
>
> But more importantly: does anyone at Sony even KNOW how much people hate
> it, or are we all making a lot of noise in the wilderness?

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Re: MD: End Search

[Dave Hooper]

> I have a question for Windoze gurus.  Can I turn off file locking on
> a file?  On occasion, I'd love to start playing the files I record
> before the recording is finished but the file is locked until the
> recording is finished.

As far as I know this cannot be done ... it's all down to the software
that's doing the recording.


It's easy easy easy to write an application that can just create a file and
write into it such that other applications are still able to load it.
If you can't start playing the file, because it's still being recorded into,
then I guess they didn't write their application very well.

But as far as I know there's nothing you can do about it, except maybe
petition them to enable shared-read access to the file ...

dave

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Re: MD: End Search

[Neon John]

Marc wrote:
> 
> on 5/13/00 2:54 PM, Neon John at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > I use my 90 as much for time shifting radio talk shows
> > as I do listening to music.  I need the ability to quickly nuke
> > commercial breaks.  With the 90 in my shirt pocket, I can simply
> > finger the >> key through the pocket.  Not possible with the hold
> > switch activated.
> 
> You peak my curiosity.  I assume when you say "time shifting radio talk"
> that you are recording the talk to play at some other time.  

Yes

>But if you plan
> to edit, then you are listening as you play.  If the 90 is in your shirt
> pocket, then there is a radio also on you some where?

By "nuke", I meant quickly fast-forwarding through the commercials
and not editing.  I record noon to three, normally Dennis Prager,
though sometimes others, and listen at night. 

 
> I use a VCR to record the talk.  HiFi VCR on slow is good for 6 - 8 hours of
> quality recording with a built in 8 event timer.  I set it for every M-F
> 12-6am or every day at 1:00 pm etc.  I just have to remember not to let
> someone shut the unit off in the middle of some other recorded material.
> If they do, then I have the VCR equivalent of an End Search problem.  I have
> my radio go directly into the VCR and select L1 on it and tape monitor on my
> amp to hear the radio.  I understand that some of the new VCRs will skip
> commercials.  I wonder what technology they use to do that.  I wonder if
> that technology would recognize radio commercials.
> 

I thought about doing that and I have the VCR but the alternative
setup is handier for several reasons.

I use the combo of Cybercorder (http://skyhawktech.com/) and
MacroScheduler (http://www.mjtnet.com)  Cybercorder emulates a VCR
and can be programmed to record to disk just like a VCR.  I use
MacroScheduler to fire everything off on time.  It makes sure
Cybercorder is loaded, the speaker is muted and then starts
RealAudio (most people don't realize but if you start real with the
audio source URL on the command line, it will go directly to the
program and without the signon chimes.)  I record to disk and to
MD.  That way, if I happen to be in the shop, I can play it from the
computer.  Otherwise, I can listen to the MD.  What's really nice
about Cybercorder is that it has several fast forward buttons for
forward 30 seconds, forward a minute, 2 minutes, etc, or whatever
you configure them for.  Handy for nuking commercials if you happen
to be near the computer.

The only major problem I've had with this setup is that CyberCorder
crashes my system if I try to use any of the optional compression
formats.  Straight PCM it is.  One thing I've learned to do is to
program no more than 1 hour per file.  Otherwise the WAV gets so big
that Cool Edit Pro can't handle it.  I occasionally want to grab
sound bites.

I have a question for Windoze gurus.  Can I turn off file locking on
a file?  On occasion, I'd love to start playing the files I record
before the recording is finished but the file is locked until the
recording is finished.

John
-- 
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~johngd/
Neon John's Custom Neon
Cleveland, TN
"Bendin' Glass 'n Passin' Gas"
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Re: MD: End Search - am I missing something?

[Neil]

On Sun, 14 May 2000 14:01:41 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>   === The original message was multipart MIME===
>   === All non-text parts (attachments) have been removed ===
>  
>  Hi all,
>  
>  I keep on hearing people complain about End Search as if it's some =
>  major problem,

Surely how "major" the problem is, is down to the perception of those that
experience it?

>  but I can't see what all the fuss is about. If you have =
>  important material you don't want to lose on a disc and you plan on =
>  making a critical recording shouldn't you be using a new disc anyway?

What if you are doing multiple critical recordings in one session, on one
disk? Should you use a disk for every bit of recording? It would seem the
sensible choice, with these sort of demands, would be to not use a portable
with the End Search "feature".

>  I =
>  know I do.

Some may not have the luxury, and besides, you shouldn't *have* to.

>  End Search can be a little inconvenient sometimes but I don't =
>  see it being a major issue.

But some may.

And some may feel compelled to defend Sony, or the devices that have this
particular "feature". However I've not yet heared of any plusses, for having
a unit that can potentially overwrite previous recordings, without at least
asking for confirmation, especially when operating contrary to most other
devices using this media.

Neil





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Re: MD: End Search - am I missing something?

[J. Coon]

  ===
  = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please  =
  = be more selective when quoting text =
  ===

When you put a disk in and accidently erase it,...It's a major problem.

Magic wrote:
> 
>  === The original message was multipart MIME===
>  === All non-text parts (attachments) have been removed ===
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I keep on hearing people complain about End Search as if it's some =
> major problem, but I can't see what all the fuss is about. If you have =
> important material you don't want to lose on a disc and you plan on =
> making a critical recording shouldn't you be using a new disc anyway? I =
> know I do. End Search can be a little inconvenient sometimes but I don't =
> see it being a major issue.
> 
> Magic
> --=20
> "Creativity is more a birthright than an acquisition, and the power of =
> sound is wisdom and understanding applied to the power of vibration."
> 
> Location : Portsmouth, England, UK
> Homepage : http://www.mattnet.freeserve.co.uk
> EMail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  === MIME part removed : text/html; ===
> 
> -
> To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word
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--
Jim Coon
Not just another pretty mandolin picker.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If Gibson made cars, would they sound so sweet?

My first web page  

http://www.tir.com/~liteways
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Re: MD: End Search - am I missing something?

[Dan Frakes]

"Magic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I keep on hearing people complain about End Search as if it's some
>major problem, but I can't see what all the fuss is about. If you 
>have important material you don't want to lose on a disc and you 
>plan on making a critical recording shouldn't you be using a new 
>disc anyway?

Eh? So then what's the point of being able to re-record 1,000,000+ times? 
;-)
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Re: MD: End Search

[Kheops GlassArt]

For commercial thing :

it's easy, just look when you watch tv, you will see a little white block in 
the top right or top left of your screen, this is a signal that show it will 
have a commercial in 15 or 30 seconds... This signal is used for some VCR... 
When they have this signal, they start a stop recording process at the right 
time... Easy as this...

Pierre.

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Re: MD: End Search - am I missing something?

[Kheops GlassArt]

Personally, for me it was a big problem... I delete unconsciously some 
tracks on my precious MD at start...

So, I decided to never buy again a SONY MD unit... I prefer my MS-722 Sharp 
and my JVC 70... I'm bored to always pay for a brand name...

And, more when they do less useful than other brand, they just lost a 
customer !!!

Pierre.

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Re: MD: End Search

[Marc]

on 5/13/00 2:54 PM, Neon John at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I use my 90 as much for time shifting radio talk shows
> as I do listening to music.  I need the ability to quickly nuke
> commercial breaks.  With the 90 in my shirt pocket, I can simply
> finger the >> key through the pocket.  Not possible with the hold
> switch activated.

You peak my curiosity.  I assume when you say "time shifting radio talk"
that you are recording the talk to play at some other time.  But if you plan
to edit, then you are listening as you play.  If the 90 is in your shirt
pocket, then there is a radio also on you some where?

I use a VCR to record the talk.  HiFi VCR on slow is good for 6 - 8 hours of
quality recording with a built in 8 event timer.  I set it for every M-F
12-6am or every day at 1:00 pm etc.  I just have to remember not to let
someone shut the unit off in the middle of some other recorded material.
If they do, then I have the VCR equivalent of an End Search problem.  I have
my radio go directly into the VCR and select L1 on it and tape monitor on my
amp to hear the radio.  I understand that some of the new VCRs will skip
commercials.  I wonder what technology they use to do that.  I wonder if
that technology would recognize radio commercials.

Marc

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Re: MD: End Search

[Neon John]

Marc wrote:
> 
>   ===
>   = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please  =
>   = be more selective when quoting text =
>   ===
> 
> I thought R-90 had a hold switch.  And I thought hold would keep from
> accidental activation.  Am I wrong?
> 

It does but it's on the back and it disables everything.  I don't
use the remote much (don't like looking like some wired-for-sound
nerd plus I don't like messing with all the wires) so using the
remote isn't an option.  I have started flipping the hold switch but
it's a pain.  I use my 90 as much for time shifting radio talk shows
as I do listening to music.  I need the ability to quickly nuke
commercial breaks.  With the 90 in my shirt pocket, I can simply
finger the >> key through the pocket.  Not possible with the hold
switch activated.  

I'm gonna resist ranting but this is what I hate about jap
electronics.  Seems they always put 1 or 2 really annoying features
on their products that wouldn't be there had Americans been
designing for our tastes.  Unfortunately, there ain't any other
choice anymore.  *Sigh*.

John

-- 
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Re: MD: END SEARCH Petition (was: question on end search)

[harmons]

on 5/13/00 9:56 AM, Eric Woudenberg at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

> 
> Richard Huggins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>> But...are you all saying
>> that if your recording portable is in the STOPPED position, it STILL will
>> overwrite material if RECORD is pressed?
>> [...]
>> Educate me!
> 
> 
> What we need is a *polite* petition/bboard style web page, describing
> the problem, and asking users to sign it
>
> To: Sony Electronics Corporation
> Portable Minidisc Division
> Tokyo, Japan
> 
> A Petition for Sony to Remove the END SEARCH Function from
> its Portable Minidisc Recorders
> 
> WHEREAS 
> WHEREAS 
> WHEREAS 
> WHEREAS 
> WHEREAS The END SEARCH function only serves to complicate the
> user interface of MD portables with NO ADDED BENEFIT,
> 
> WE THE UNDERSIGNED kindly request that Sony henceforth remove
> the END SEARCH function

Wow Eric, that is impressive, a bit law abiding but good.

Would not a legitimate vote first, from a few different quarters, from all
MD owners or want to bees, and then perhaps a group letter and individual
letters be another approach:

Group letter:
The feature of End Search has caused many a diehard MD user to choke, if not
cry, big time.  What where you thinking.  What possibly could be your
justification for taking this approach.  Imagine being in the middle of
making the recording of your lifetime, and accidentally hitting record,
right after the disk is Re-inserted.
[actual stories here, quoted by name and with contact address would be best]
Our survey found 1% who liked this feature, justifying it by saying: for
their needs, it is a fast way to edit and amend a recording.  5% were
flexible.  70% where flaming mad. 24% said that this is why they would not
buy the Sony (note: we expect that there is a whole lot larger of a group,
but for their own reasons, did not bother to vote)

What is needed, for us to not buy the competition next, and not discourage
anyone who asks, is for you to inform us that you will change this feature,
and that you have a software workaround that will give us a menu choice for
our present units.   The later, though costly to you, will show the good
faith needed to maintain the respect, many of us have been giving Sony
products.
Sincerely,
Will B. Happy

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Re: MD: End Search

[Neil]

On Fri, 12 May 2000 12:02:52 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  Oh yeah, I've done that.  But being the type that doesn't try to
>  pass the buck, I blamed it on my carelessness rather than the
>  hardware.

In saying that, then you go on with:-

>  A much bigger beef with the MZ-R90 in this area is how easily the
>  "record" button is operated.  I've bumped it into record mode a
>  couple of times now while carrying the unit in my pants pocket. 
>  Sure, sliding the write protect tab would "fix" the problem but then
>  it would prevent me from marking my place on the disc before
>  ejecting it by hitting the "mark write" button.  Wish they'd
>  provided two separate buttons to activate "record".

Isn't the only difference here, that you find one particular design likely
to accidentally cause *you* problems, where many other Sony portable owners,
IME, tend to find the End Search "feature" much more of an issue?

Neil





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Re: MD: End Search

[Marc]

  ===
  = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please  =
  = be more selective when quoting text =
  ===

I thought R-90 had a hold switch.  And I thought hold would keep from
accidental activation.  Am I wrong?

on 5/12/00 7:55 PM, Neon John at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> "J. Coon" wrote:
> 
> 
>>> A much bigger beef with the MZ-R90 in this area is how easily the
>>> "record" button is operated.  I've bumped it into record mode a
>>> couple of times now while carrying the unit in my pants pocket.
>> 
>> And if they didn't have the stupid END SEARCH button, you wouldn't loose
>> your previously recorded material.  are you starting to get the
>> picture?   Maybe if you bump record a few more times, you will be
>> cussing the END SEARCH too.  
>> 
> 
> Nah.  I like being able to play right up to an edit point, hit stop
> and then start recording again.  (How do other machines do
> overwrites?)  I just wish they'd cloned cassette recorders and
> required pressing REC and PLAY at the same time (or something)
> instead of just having one slide switch with a poor latch.
> 
> John

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Re: MD: End Search

[Neon John]

"J. Coon" wrote:


> > A much bigger beef with the MZ-R90 in this area is how easily the
> > "record" button is operated.  I've bumped it into record mode a
> > couple of times now while carrying the unit in my pants pocket.
> 
> And if they didn't have the stupid END SEARCH button, you wouldn't loose
> your previously recorded material.  are you starting to get the
> picture?   Maybe if you bump record a few more times, you will be
> cussing the END SEARCH too.  
>

Nah.  I like being able to play right up to an edit point, hit stop
and then start recording again.  (How do other machines do
overwrites?)  I just wish they'd cloned cassette recorders and
required pressing REC and PLAY at the same time (or something)
instead of just having one slide switch with a poor latch.

John
-- 
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Re: MD: End Search

[J. Coon]

Neon John wrote:
>  Oh yeah, I've done that.  But being the type that doesn't try to
> pass the buck, I blamed it on my carelessness rather than the
> hardware.
> 
> A much bigger beef with the MZ-R90 in this area is how easily the
> "record" button is operated.  I've bumped it into record mode a
> couple of times now while carrying the unit in my pants pocket.

And if they didn't have the stupid END SEARCH button, you wouldn't loose
your previously recorded material.  are you starting to get the
picture?   Maybe if you bump record a few more times, you will be
cussing the END SEARCH too.  

--
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Not just another pretty mandolin picker.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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My first web page  

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Re: MD: End Search

[Stainless Steel Rat]

* Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  on Fri, 12 May 2000
| Oh yeah, I've done that.  But being the type that doesn't try to
| pass the buck, I blamed it on my carelessness rather than the
| hardware.

When hardware *encourages* mistakes, I blame the person or persons who
designed the hardware, Sony in this case.
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Re: MD: End Search

[Neon John]

Stainless Steel Rat wrote:

> Only Sony portable recorders have this misfeature.  Recorders other than
> Sony portables (and this includes Sony home decks) assume that you want to
> append new recordings instead of overwriting existing recordings, unless
> you tell the recorder otherwise.
> 
> In other words, what you are "missing" is that you have yet to accidentally
> forget to press the end search button and lose a one chance only recording.


Oh yeah, I've done that.  But being the type that doesn't try to
pass the buck, I blamed it on my carelessness rather than the
hardware.

A much bigger beef with the MZ-R90 in this area is how easily the
"record" button is operated.  I've bumped it into record mode a
couple of times now while carrying the unit in my pants pocket. 
Sure, sliding the write protect tab would "fix" the problem but then
it would prevent me from marking my place on the disc before
ejecting it by hitting the "mark write" button.  Wish they'd
provided two separate buttons to activate "record".

-- 
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~johngd/
Neon John's Custom Neon
Cleveland, TN
"Bendin' Glass 'n Passin' Gas"

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Re: MD: End Search: how's it in Sharp portables?

[Ralph Smeets]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> A question on the everlasting "End Search" dispute:
> 
> Scenario: I'm listening to a MD with a Sharp (or other than Sony brand)
> portable. I press 'stop' and the unit auto-shuts-off. After an hour or so I
> resume listening.
> 
> Question: does the md start from where I stopped listening before (1) or
> does it start from the beginning again (2)?
> 
> If the answer is (1), then I really don't understand the "End search" button
> on Sony portables. If the answer is (2), otherwise I can see the point.

It's (1)

> Explanation of my point of view: if a Sharp portables, in the descripted
> scenario, starts from the beginning again, then it's behaving like a Sony
> deck, right? My point of view is that maybe Sony believes that portables are
> mainly used for listening, and so it's a bit annoying to have to start
> listening to an MD from the beginning everytime you stop it for a while. So
> maybe they thought something like "since they will use it mainly for
> listening, we make portables capable of resuming the reproduction of the MD
> from the point the user stopped it, and if the user wants to record he/she
> just has to press 'End Search' in order to go to the end of the MD".
> 
> Does this make (a little) sense?

Yes,
 
> Luca
> Milano, Italy

Ralph,
Grenoble, France

(How was that for a change!) 


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===
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   We learned to talk."
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Re: MD: End Search: how's it in Sharp portables?

[Neil]

On Fri, 12 May 2000 12:03:21 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  A question on the everlasting "End Search" dispute:
>  
>  Scenario: I'm listening to a MD with a Sharp (or other than Sony brand)
>  portable. I press 'stop' and the unit auto-shuts-off. After an hour or so
I
>  resume listening.
>  
>  Question: does the md start from where I stopped listening before (1) or
>  does it start from the beginning again (2)?

On all of my units, so long as permanent power isn't removed (ie unplug the
bookshelf, take the battery out of my portable, *possibly* remove my car's
head unit / disconnect battery), and they're effectively in standby or have
maintanence voltages available, they all remember where I was previously up
to and start from there.

>  If the answer is (1), then I really don't understand the "End search"
button
>  on Sony portables.

I'm not sure any of us really understand why it's there ;-) I can only see
negatives for this.

Neil





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Re: MD: End Search

[Ralph Smeets]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> "J. Coon" wrote:
> >
> >  The average off the street taper, just wants to push a button and
> > record and not mess with the levels.  That is one thing that makes the
> > Sonys atractive, except they messed up the concept with that darned End
> > Search button that will really give them a headache.  WIth the Sony,
> > when they get to the point that they want to play with the recording
> > levels, they can still do it.
> 
> Ok, my curiosity is up.  I've seen a couple of criticisms now of the
> "end search" button.  What's the beef?  I find it quite handy when
> I'm conducting multiple recording sessions on the same disk.  Am I
> missing something?
> 

Yes,

But first let's define end-search:
end-search is a mechanism that puts the recording position at the end of
previously recorded material.

ALL MD recorders have end-search.

And then lets see how it is implemented on differnt brands of recorders:
Sony:
  - portables: user has to push an end-search button in order to activate
the end-search mechanism. 
  - home-decks: a Sony home-deck will do an 'automatic' end-search. Ie,
whenever you press 'record' while the deck is stopped the recording
will start after the previously recorded material.
If you want to overwrite material, you will need to set the recording
position by going to the place where you want to start to overwrite.
All others:
  - see Sony home-decks.

You're preference may vary. PERSONALY I can't find any sane explination
for the end-search button since:
1) with our without your end-search button, in order to overwrite the
   material from a certain possition, you need to position the recording
   position. Thus, end-search is an EXTRA step.
2) forgetting to push end-search will result in overwritting material.

Cheers,
Ralph


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===
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Voice:  (+33) (0)4 76 58 44 46   STMicroelectronics
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RE: MD: End Search

[Richard Lang]

Yes, I think intuitively one would expect the machine would automatically
record at the end of any previously recorded section - hey, it's Minidisc so
it you wanted to move a later recording to the start you could easily do so,
and if you eanted to erase an earlier recording that's easy too, both
through the edit menu.

For those that can't see the problem with end-search, basically all other
portables and all decks don't have it because they automatically record at
the end of any previous material on the disc, which like I say above is what
I believe the average user would expect (especially if they're used to other
MD hardware).

I take the point about the mindset being taken from tape possibly explaining
end-search, but whilst that might explain the presence of this mis-feature
(I love that erm) on the MZ-R1, it doesn't explain it on later models.

richard

-Original Message-
From: J. Coon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, 12 May 2000 16:41
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: MD: End Search



Neon John wrote:
>  
> Ok, my curiosity is up.  I've seen a couple of criticisms now of the
> "end search" button.  What's the beef?  I find it quite handy when
> I'm conducting multiple recording sessions on the same disk.  Am I
> missing something?

Maybe not, but you will if you don't remember to press END SEARCH,
especially if you record for 15 minutes, listen to the beginging  of the
recording, or take the disk out to check it and put it back and forget
to push END SEARCH.  You will miss your previous recording.  Most
sensible recorders do that automatically, but oh no,not Sony.

--
Jim Coon
Not just another pretty mandolin picker.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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My first web page  

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Re: MD: End Search

[J. Coon]

Neon John wrote:
>  
> Ok, my curiosity is up.  I've seen a couple of criticisms now of the
> "end search" button.  What's the beef?  I find it quite handy when
> I'm conducting multiple recording sessions on the same disk.  Am I
> missing something?

Maybe not, but you will if you don't remember to press END SEARCH,
especially if you record for 15 minutes, listen to the beginging  of the
recording, or take the disk out to check it and put it back and forget
to push END SEARCH.  You will miss your previous recording.  Most
sensible recorders do that automatically, but oh no,not Sony.

--
Jim Coon
Not just another pretty mandolin picker.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If Gibson made cars, would they sound so sweet?

My first web page  

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Re: MD: End Search

[Stainless Steel Rat]

* Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  on Thu, 11 May 2000
| Ok, my curiosity is up.  I've seen a couple of criticisms now of the "end
| search" button.  What's the beef?  I find it quite handy when I'm
| conducting multiple recording sessions on the same disk.  Am I missing
| something?

Whenever you want to erase or overwrite something on an MD, the recorder
asks for some kind of confirmation.  Makes sense, really, requiring user
input of some sort to prevent accidental and irrevocable destruction of a
recording.  The end search "feature" gives you the ability to accidentally
and irrevocably destroy a recording without any input at all.  That is, if
you forget to push the end search button when you begin recording, the new
recording will begin at the point where previous playback or recording left
off.

Only Sony portable recorders have this misfeature.  Recorders other than
Sony portables (and this includes Sony home decks) assume that you want to
append new recordings instead of overwriting existing recordings, unless
you tell the recorder otherwise.

In other words, what you are "missing" is that you have yet to accidentally 
forget to press the end search button and lose a one chance only recording.
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Re: MD: end search?

[Magic]

"Wall, Nicholas" wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I'm new to this MD game, and thinking of getting my first md, the sony
> mz-r90, either that or the Sharp MT-831. Does anyone have any thoughts on
> which they think is better, and why?

The R90 has better reproduction of the original sound (what comes out is
closest to what went in). The Sharp is much louder and has better features
than the Sony. Sony units make slightly (very slightly) better recordings,
but the Sharp unit can change record levels whilst recording (Sony has to
press pause first). The 831 is the first unit made by Sharp I have been
really impressed with - feels much nicer than the other units and sounds
great, but I still don't find it as easy to use as the Sony and prefer the
Sony bass response which is smoother sounding. I would say the Sharp is
better for heavy "thud thud" music such as Dance music and Rock because it
has a lot of volume. The Sony is better at handling music such as Jazz and
classical because it reproduces the smooth deep sounds of instruments such as
bellos and bowed basses much better (the Sharp adds a kick to the start of
the sound which isn't there).

Having said all this the differences are really minimal in the sound - you
have to be a right fussy b* to notice it. I don't think you'll be
dissapointed with either. IF you plan on live recording though you'd be mad
not to go for the Sharp because not being able to adjust record levels
without pausing first will drive you mad unless you can judge where to put
the levels before you start. THe Aiwa F70 is the absolute best for live
recording because it has a light on the main unit so you can see the record
levels (Sony and Sharp make you take a penlight) but the size of the F70
makes it look and feel a bit dated now.

> Also, what the hell is 'End Search'?

A real pain in the backside if you forget to push it before you record. On
Sony units, flicking record starts recording from the point you are on the
disc. If you are in the middle of track 4, it will start recording over the
rest of track 4 and tracks 5,6,7 etc. End search takes it to the end of the
recording so that flicking record will add to whatever is there. I think Sony
are mad putting this button on the unit at all, it's pointless!


--
Magic

Location : Portsmouth, England, UK
Homepage : http://www.mattnet.freeserve.co.uk
EMail : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

"A book judged by it's cover makes for a very shallow read."




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RE: MD: end search?

[Wall, Nicholas]

  ===
  = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please  =
  = be more selective when quoting text =
  ===

Thanks for the explanation. From that I'd have to say I'd probably be in the
Anti-Sony camp. Seems like an unneccesary feature to me.

Having said that, I'm erring towards the Sony MZ-R90 as my first MD buy,
although I don't yet have any confirmed British prices on it or the Sharp
831. Anyone give me any info on that, or reasons for and against the two
machines?

Cheers,

Nick.

> -Original Message-
> From: Dan Frakes [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 5:25 PM
> To:   MDList
> Subject:  Re: MD: end search?
> 
> 
> "Wall, Nicholas " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >Also, what the hell is 'End Search'?
> 
> Uh-oh...
> 
> You don't know what you've done, Nicholas ;-)
> 
> Seriously, though, whenever this topic comes up there is a huge debate 
> over it. I'll withhold my opinion and try to explain it fairly.
> 
> End search is an old feature that today only exists on Sony portable MD 
> recorders. No other brands, nor the Sony home MD recorders, still have it.
> 
> On all other MD recorders, when you press "record" the default behavior 
> is for the recording to start from the end of the material that is 
> already on the MD. Basically, they start a new track. If you want, you 
> can manually tell the unit to start to record elsewhere, either between 
> two tracks, at the beginning of the disk or smack in the middle of a 
> pre-existing track. But by default, they start recording at the end.
> 
> Sony portable recorders, on the other hand, start recording wherever you 
> last left off playing or recording. So if you are recording some songs 
> from a CD, and go back and listen to them or change the order, etc., the 
> next time you press record during that session the Sony portable 
> recorders will start to record from the last place you were at, whether 
> that's at the beginning of the disk, the end, between tracks, or right in 
> the middle of another song you just recorded, and it will overwrite 
> whatever is there. To avoid this, you press the "end search" button, 
> which basically tells the Sony portable to go to the *end* of all 
> recorded material. Then you start recording from that point.
> 
> I think the above was a pretty neutral, objective way of explaining it. 
> Some people like it, some hate it. Read the above and decide for yourself 
> whether it makes sense to you.
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Re: MD: end search?

[Dan Frakes]

"Wall, Nicholas " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Also, what the hell is 'End Search'?

Uh-oh...

You don't know what you've done, Nicholas ;-)

Seriously, though, whenever this topic comes up there is a huge debate 
over it. I'll withhold my opinion and try to explain it fairly.

End search is an old feature that today only exists on Sony portable MD 
recorders. No other brands, nor the Sony home MD recorders, still have it.

On all other MD recorders, when you press "record" the default behavior 
is for the recording to start from the end of the material that is 
already on the MD. Basically, they start a new track. If you want, you 
can manually tell the unit to start to record elsewhere, either between 
two tracks, at the beginning of the disk or smack in the middle of a 
pre-existing track. But by default, they start recording at the end.

Sony portable recorders, on the other hand, start recording wherever you 
last left off playing or recording. So if you are recording some songs 
from a CD, and go back and listen to them or change the order, etc., the 
next time you press record during that session the Sony portable 
recorders will start to record from the last place you were at, whether 
that's at the beginning of the disk, the end, between tracks, or right in 
the middle of another song you just recorded, and it will overwrite 
whatever is there. To avoid this, you press the "end search" button, 
which basically tells the Sony portable to go to the *end* of all 
recorded material. Then you start recording from that point.

I think the above was a pretty neutral, objective way of explaining it. 
Some people like it, some hate it. Read the above and decide for yourself 
whether it makes sense to you.
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Re: MD: end search?

[Graham Baker]

Welcome to the MD world Nick.

Your question about 'end search' is just about to start world war three on
MD-L.
Lots of comments are about to be posted - I'll start the ball rolling - end
search is a totally redundant function that Sony (still) use on their
portable recorders to find the end of the recorded section of a disc, from
which point you can start your new recording.

The Sharps and other portables and even the Sony home decks don't require
this function, they 'end search' automatically when the record button is
pressed, although they can 'over-write' if you wish, something the Sony
portables do automatically if you forget to press 'end search' first.

If you can't figure out the logic in the above, don't worry you are not
alone as you are about to find out.:-)

GB


>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm new to this MD game, and thinking of getting my first md, the sony
> mz-r90, either that or the Sharp MT-831. Does anyone have any thoughts on
> which they think is better, and why?
>
> Also, what the hell is 'End Search'?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Nick.


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RE: MD: end search

[Dan Frakes]

"Tony Antoniou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>You don't seem to understand that these threads go on for a very long time
>(a lot longer than they need to be, so much so that people actually ask for
>the thread to end!), are not productive by any means and is repetitious.
>Let's face it, it's dÈjý vu, only more annoying. So I strongly suggest that
>you deal with the facts.

Personally, I found some of the posts very productive. Some of us 
actually find the thread an interesting commentary on industrial design. 
And though I've heard this debate at least three or four times on this 
list, this time I actually heard some intellectual discussion of the 
issue. That is, until some people decided that none of us should talk 
about it... ;-)
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RE: MD: end search

[Rick Pali]

From: Tony Antoniou

> You don't seem to understand that these threads
> go on for a very long time
> are not productive by any means and is repetitious.

Not at all correct. I've seen many many threads like this over the years.
What I've observed is that they all eventually die out and that complaining
about them has no effect whatsoever ... unless you're the moderator. All it
does is add even worse noise because it's got nothing at all to do with the
area's topic.

Even worse, calling for the end of a topical thread with an non-topical
message is questionable at best.

I've also learned that the subject is an ideal way to avoid topics you don't
like. Unless your mailreader doesn't allow it (and I haven't seen one like
that), messages can be deleted without reading them.

Rick.
-+---
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.alienshore.com/

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RE: MD: end search

[Tony Antoniou]

You don't seem to understand that these threads go on for a very long time
(a lot longer than they need to be, so much so that people actually ask for
the thread to end!), are not productive by any means and is repetitious.
Let's face it, it's déjà vu, only more annoying. So I strongly suggest that
you deal with the facts.

Adios,
LarZ

---  TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums  ---


-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf
Of Rick Pali
Sent:   Thursday, 9 September 1999 11:24
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:        RE: MD: end search


From: Tony Antoniou

> I'm sick to death of seeing these debates because
> it's always the same inane, monotonous garbage!

It's clearly on topic.

If you don't want to read about it, *you* deal with it.

Rick.
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RE: MD: end search

[Jeffrey D. Scorsone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-


Well as one of the people that there appears to be something the 'f__k' with,
I'd have to say we're bored, tired, LOVE to debate and argue, and can't
seem to come by the most obvious conclusion which is:
Agree to Disagree!

Just a thought
- -Jeffrey

- -- 
I am not a folder!

On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Tony Antoniou wrote:

> 
> If I recall correctly from my last post about the End Search feature, my
> closing comment was "each to his own".
> 
> What the f__k is it with you people? We keep going round and round in
> circles and never agree anyway so why can't you all just get it through your
> skulls that for the amount of people that loathe it, others love it? If you
> don't like the feature, then don't get the product, just shut the hell up
> about it! DEAL WITH IT! I'm sick to death of seeing these debates because
> it's always the same inane, monotonous garbage!
> 
> Adios,
> LarZ
> 
> ---  TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums  ---
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf
> Of Jim Gray
> Sent: Thursday, 9 September 1999 8:17
> To:   md
> Subject:  MD: end search
> 
> 
> I'm trying not to get caught up in this ES debate again, but I'm
> beginning to realize that some people, who bought Sonys and then had to
> get used to a stupid, useless, destructive feature WOULD RATHER DIE than
> admit that they got something inherently stupid, and will strain their
> brains trying to rationalize something that is completely indefensible!!
> 
> -
> To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word
> "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

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RE: MD: end search

[Rick Pali]

From: Tony Antoniou

> I'm sick to death of seeing these debates because
> it's always the same inane, monotonous garbage!

It's clearly on topic.

If you don't want to read about it, *you* deal with it.

Rick.
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RE: MD: end search

[Tony Antoniou]

If I recall correctly from my last post about the End Search feature, my
closing comment was "each to his own".

What the f__k is it with you people? We keep going round and round in
circles and never agree anyway so why can't you all just get it through your
skulls that for the amount of people that loathe it, others love it? If you
don't like the feature, then don't get the product, just shut the hell up
about it! DEAL WITH IT! I'm sick to death of seeing these debates because
it's always the same inane, monotonous garbage!

Adios,
LarZ

---  TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums  ---


-Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf
Of Jim Gray
Sent:   Thursday, 9 September 1999 8:17
To: md
Subject:MD: end search


I'm trying not to get caught up in this ES debate again, but I'm
beginning to realize that some people, who bought Sonys and then had to
get used to a stupid, useless, destructive feature WOULD RATHER DIE than
admit that they got something inherently stupid, and will strain their
brains trying to rationalize something that is completely indefensible!!

-
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"unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]