Re: [Mpls] Crime Statistics and myth perceptions
Jim Graham states: "The problem with stats of police actions is that what they may also be measuring is levels of police enforcement and activity rather than crime." >From the perspective of the Charles Horn public housing complex, I can warn about sanctifying statistical reports. We are to lose security guards because our police blotter is quiescent compared to ... well, there's the rub. Compared to 1996, it's like heaven around here. Funded guards, funded volunteers, enforcement of lease provisions, funded community programs for teenagers, and until recently a robust economy have all contributed to this diminution in criminal traffic. Parenthetically, there's a strategy in the works that may ameliorate MPHA's projected guard cutbacks. The Minneapolis Highrise Representative Council's newsletter for June, 2003 makes mention of a proposed security pilot program which would replace guards in some buildings with students enrolled in the MPD's Community Service Officer program. This is good news because for Charles Horn, cutbacks in guard funding, defunding the Project Lookout program, sometimes tardy and/or erratic lease enforcement, defunding community programs for at-risk teenagers, and an abysmal climate for unskilled employment surely trump the rosy and utterly facile use of recent reports of a successful set of crime-prevention programs as a rationale to justify cutbacks in security brought about by federal budget cuts. Our resident population knows better than to buy into the "happy talk" use of the crime stats - I just want the rest of Minneapolis not to be led astray. We very much appreciate what the MPD and MPHA do to keep us safe - that's not the point. The point is not to be lulled into complacency by the spin put on crime stats. Fred Markus, Horn Terrace, Ward Ten, in the Lyndale Neighborhood --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003 TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crime Statistics and myth perceptions- MYTH or TRUTH
I received a bunch of off list comments in both directions on this "Statistics" issue. Actually Mark, I do not have any beef with either MPD or Reinhardt at all. I enjoyed his post, Reinhardt actually seemed to understand the limitations of statistics and their "uses". I take my beefs up where I find them. Discrimination is not addressed unless its causes are looked at where ever they are found. I am amazed that having read my post someone would have thought I had a beef with Reinhardt. Other than the "Myth" thing, which I disagreed on, I thought I complimented him. He did a good job I think both the City and the Feds inappropriately lump property and people crimes and would do better to separate them. The real beef I have is with supposed educated fools using such statistics to say things just are not that bad in "Impacted neighborhoods". To say, "well it looks as if you are getting equal protection under the law" . It is not done with any malice on their part, but it does harm to those neighborhoods and helps to create an institutional pattern of discrimination. That is why I posted. Also to debunk a little of the superstition our society and City has around the myth of statistics. You are correct about that overall reporting and making comparisons. I did not miss what Reinhardt had said. I meant that it was certainly a better comparison to be comparing crimes to persons with crimes to persons than to muddy the water by comparing total numbers. For example the statistic for simple assault is way off if one makes comparison. Assaults happen all the time in poor neighborhoods and if someone witnessing it does not call the police it often is not reported. People are aware of it and it affects quality of life, but it does not appear in police stats. The problem with stats of police actions is that what they may also be measuring is levels of police enforcement and activity rather than crime. If I call the police and a police car does not arrive for thirty minutes, (because of man power shortages for that area), I may have gone on about my business and the next time not even call. I have personally helped a rape victim on Franklin Avenue who had that attitude after a 20 minute wait. The shame and horror became something she just wanted to get away from. She even said that they are not going to do anything, they don't care what happens to us. This is one reason I have a little heat about rape in poor neighborhoods. Can you imagine the response that such a crime would have generated in Chaska or Lynden Hills or Hopkins? As a former research director and statistician I understand the need for such comparable numbers, but we also do need to be careful to as Reinhardt said "compare apples and apples". Statistics are tools, and qualitatively we can also understand a little more about a society if we look at which tools they choose and how they choose to use those tools. Jim Graham, Ventura Village >"The attempt to close the gap between what is known and what IS, is the temptation behind the apple in Genesis." TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crime Statistics and myth perceptions- MYTH or TRUTH
On 6/6/03 11:34 PM, "JIM GRAHAM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I enjoyed Gregory's report on crime stats. It brought meaning to > Minneapolis' crime statistics. Given that there is the knowledge that > crimes against persons and crimes against property are different, why does > Minneapolis lump them together when looking at CodeFor? It almost sounds > like the water is purposefully muddied. Lets get on with as Gregory says, > "comparing apples to apples" and stop using statistics as if watermelons and > apples have the same weight. I can assure a reader that any one rape equals > a great deal more than 50 thefts to the individual woman or girl who is the > victim! They also have very different weights for the individual resident's > general perception of a neighborhood's danger and quality of life. Minneapolis doesn't lump crimes against persons with crimes against property. The FBI and Department of Justice do. As Lt. Reinhardt explained, CODEFOR is simply based on what the Feds call Part I offenses. If you have a beef with what constitutes a Part I Offense, take it up with Attorney General Ashcroft, not Lt. Reinhardt or the MPD. Mark Snyder Windom Park TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crime Statistics and myth perceptions- MYTH or TRUTH
Thank you Gregory Reinhardt for your post on Minneapolis Issues about statistics in general and crime stats specifically. It was as good an explanation of Minneapolis statistics and their limitations as anything I have seen. Mr. Reinhardt says, "Before there were statistics, there were myths. These stories were allegories about ourselves. They told about out values, hopes and dreams. Myths served as a symbolic reflection of our inner selves." Actually, myths are shared stories or motive that is collectively passed down from and by a culture. As such "Myths" are symbolic reflections of that culture's definition of a "inner-self". There have been far more myths created after statistics than there were before. Chief among these myths was that the numbers had had meaning outside of their intent. It is a bit like glorifying the hammer because it gives meaning to the nail. The myth is that statistics are any more than a simple tool that allows people to describe and compare phenomena. There are qualitative as well as quantitative forms of analysis, both are nothing more than attempts to form rationality out of chaos, and neither method or tool is any better than the observer, the questions asked, or the analysis of the observed. The problem comes when society attaches a believability to the statistics that surpasses their true purpose of, and as, "tool". I enjoyed Gregory's report on crime stats. It brought meaning to Minneapolis' crime statistics. Given that there is the knowledge that crimes against persons and crimes against property are different, why does Minneapolis lump them together when looking at CodeFor? It almost sounds like the water is purposefully muddied. Lets get on with as Gregory says, "comparing apples to apples" and stop using statistics as if watermelons and apples have the same weight. I can assure a reader that any one rape equals a great deal more than 50 thefts to the individual woman or girl who is the victim! They also have very different weights for the individual resident's general perception of a neighborhood's danger and quality of life. Very insightful was the fact that, "These categories reflect proactive enforcement action. Consequently they are not indicators of criminality but indicators of enforcement action." The reporting of such things as rape are very different in poor neighborhoods that in "good" neighborhoods. So the comparative measurement of them for indicating danger in neighborhoods is questionable at best when the statistics indicate enforcement rather than level of criminality. While the persons experience or "data" might only be anacdotal in nature I can assure any reader that it has no less meaning for "real people" dealing with "real lives" and not just armchair theory. Mr. Reinhardt says, "Albert Einstein said 'Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.' What is counted is what is of value. Each community has its own set of values, the Minneapolis community has its own. Each individual in turn, has a set of different priorities." Both he and Albert are so correct. Numbers do not adequately express any value other than those of the person collecting, assembling, and then using them. The problem occurs when some do not place the same value on identical acts perpetrated against different people. Some individuals from wealthy neighborhoods do not apparently place the same value on the bodies of the poor woman in a poor minority community who is being raped as they do on their wife or their daughter suffering the same. Look at the press and media coverage the two rapes in Hopkins received. Versus the absolute failure to report any of the huge number of rapes in Ventura Village, Jordan, or Hawthorn Neighborhoods. The numbers and the values indicated by that differential in coverage given the differences in statistics on per capita rate are morally repugnant to those who actually look at the statistics. Look and see the heart ache and pattern of discrimination they actually measure. Look at a different statistic - minutes of media coverage per "per capita" rape rate. To me it clearly shows the values of our wider community, and the lack of value it has for the suffering of poor and minority people. In fact some individuals place as much value on the theft or the vandalizing of an automobile in a "Nice Neighborhood" as the rape of a girl or woman in a poor minority community. The difference is the value of "them" versus the value of "us". To bad poor people and communities do not also get to be "us" to those people, isn't it? Jim Graham, Ventura Village >"Do not so firmly follow a belief or statistic that it blinds you to justice and truth." TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Foru
[Mpls] Crime Statistics and myth perceptions
Before there were statistics, there were myths. These stories were allegories about ourselves. They told about out values, hopes and dreams. Myths served as a symbolic reflection of our inner selves. Today, we count numbers. And much like myths, the numbers reflect what we value. CODEFOR numbers are based on the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports. The Uniform Crime Reporting process is organized and managed by the U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation. It was established to collect similar crime information from all communities throughout the United States to monitor local, regional and national crime trends. Quite simply, it is a way of comparing apples to apples ( crime statistics) across the nation. Not all crimes readily come to the attention of the police and consequently are not good indicators of a community's criminality. Therefore, for practical purposes, the FBI settled on a group of eight crimes to use as a national standard to measure criminality, because they are frequently reported, because of their seriousness and their volume. Collectively the eight crimes are known as the UCR Part I Offenses. The eight crimes are: 1) Criminal Homicide 2) Forcible Rape 3) Robbery 4) Aggravated Assault 5) Burglary 6) Larceny Theft 7) Motor Vehicle Theft 8) Arson. The Part I Offenses are further sub-grouped into Crimes Against Persons and Crimes Against Property. In the UCR Program, the offenses of Criminal Homicide, Forcible Rape and Aggravated Assault are crimes against persons and one offense is counted per victim. Robbery, Burglary, Larceny Theft, Motor Vehicle Theft and Arson are crimes against property and one offense is counted per event except in the case of Motor Vehicle Theft where one offense is counted per vehicle stolen. A second grouping of crimes known as the UCR Part II offenses include all criminal offenses not included in the above categories. Some offenses, largely local ordinance violations, are excluded. The Part II offense groups include Narcotics, Prostitution and Gambling. These categories reflect proactive enforcement action. Consequently they are not indicators of criminality but indicators of enforcement action. Albert Einstein said "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." What is counted is what is of value. Each community has its own set of values, the Minneapolis community has its own. Each individual in turn, has a set of different priorities. Some crimes in Minneapolis are under reported (theft), others have a high percentage of incidents reported (murder). Do not confuse Part 1 Crime numbers, CODEFOR, or a plethora of other statistics as a reflection of law enforcement tactics and /or strategies. To catch a Rapist, an officer has a better opportunity doing so if enforcing quality of life crimes than Part I crimes. You could wait all day for a Rapist and never see one, but conduct directed patrol in specific areas and you'll catch a handful of Level III sex offenders. For further information, please contact the Minneapolis Police Department CODEFOR Unit 612-673-3082, or write to Minneapolis Police Department CODEFOR Unit 217 South 3rd Street Minneapolis, MN 55410 Lt. Gregory W. Reinhardt Minneapolis Police CODEFOR Unit 612-673-3587 TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
