RE: Call for StyleSecretary Help: Let's try discussing/deciding thisin IRC (was [mb-style] add instrument request: vacuum cleaner)
> As far as i know the position of "Instrument Secretary" is > not held by anyone (including DonRedman) and is still open > and available. > > i didn't call anyone specifically spineless. So I don't see > that as confrontational. I'm saying in jest, give the > position to someone who will flip-flop and not because as far > as requirements of the position, that seems to be one. > i was told i didn't fit the position for something where > decisions would be made.. because i stand by my word and > don't back down easily. if anyone that does end up with the > position they are going to be expected to flip flop and > basically have no opinion? > Most confrontations I've been involved with on IRC were > misunderstandings on both ends or extreme over reaction on the other. > > I respect Don but as I said before, I'm just really tired of > waiting months to get this instrument (or any other instrument) added. > > -b Apologies. I misunderstood the comment. Cristov (wolfsong) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: Call for StyleSecretary Help: Let's try discussing/deciding thisin IRC (was [mb-style] add instrument request: vacuum cleaner)
As far as i know the position of "Instrument Secretary" is not held by anyone (including DonRedman) and is still open and available. i didn't call anyone specifically spineless. So I don't see that as confrontational. I'm saying in jest, give the position to someone who will flip-flop and not because as far as requirements of the position, that seems to be one. i was told i didn't fit the position for something where decisions would be made.. because i stand by my word and don't back down easily. if anyone that does end up with the position they are going to be expected to flip flop and basically have no opinion? Most confrontations I've been involved with on IRC were misunderstandings on both ends or extreme over reaction on the other. I respect Don but as I said before, I'm just really tired of waiting months to get this instrument (or any other instrument) added. -b Cristov Russell wrote: >> I've been waiting over 3 months for an instrument to be added >> to MB and jumped through way too many bullshit hoops to get >> to where we are now. >> i'm just looking for it to be added without any further hoops >> like i was told by Redman that it would be once Mos thingy >> went live. It's been live for over two weeks and still no vacuum. >> the email is hardly confrontational, i'm requesting someone >> follow up on their word. > > > While your previous email asking for follow up (quite understandably) might > be the case, this thread comes across clearly is an attack on DonRedman. You > can't call someone spineless and expect that to not be considered > confrontational. > > -- > Cristov (wolfsong) > > > ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: Call for StyleSecretary Help: Let's try discussing/deciding thisin IRC (was [mb-style] add instrument request: vacuum cleaner)
> I've been waiting over 3 months for an instrument to be added > to MB and jumped through way too many bullshit hoops to get > to where we are now. > i'm just looking for it to be added without any further hoops > like i was told by Redman that it would be once Mos thingy > went live. It's been live for over two weeks and still no vacuum. > the email is hardly confrontational, i'm requesting someone > follow up on their word. While your previous email asking for follow up (quite understandably) might be the case, this thread comes across clearly is an attack on DonRedman. You can't call someone spineless and expect that to not be considered confrontational. -- Cristov (wolfsong) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: Call for StyleSecretary Help: Let's try discussing/deciding thisin IRC (was [mb-style] add instrument request: vacuum cleaner)
I've been waiting over 3 months for an instrument to be added to MB and jumped through way too many bullshit hoops to get to where we are now. i'm just looking for it to be added without any further hoops like i was told by Redman that it would be once Mos thingy went live. It's been live for over two weeks and still no vacuum. the email is hardly confrontational, i'm requesting someone follow up on their word. Cristov Russell wrote: >> LOL >> yes, give the position to someone that has no spine and will >> back down at any argument presented to them. >> you know that i'm only confrontational when confronted.. and >> i believe most people that don't have thier head in the >> coulds on IRC realize that as well. >> >> -Brian >> >> btw-- what exactly ARE the "qualifications" for the "position"? > > Technically since you're attacking DonRedman with this email you are being > confrontational now and he hasn't confronted you. > > Cristov (wolfsong) > > > ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: Call for StyleSecretary Help: Let's try discussing/deciding thisin IRC (was [mb-style] add instrument request: vacuum cleaner)
> LOL > yes, give the position to someone that has no spine and will > back down at any argument presented to them. > you know that i'm only confrontational when confronted.. and > i believe most people that don't have thier head in the > coulds on IRC realize that as well. > > -Brian > > btw-- what exactly ARE the "qualifications" for the "position"? Technically since you're attacking DonRedman with this email you are being confrontational now and he hasn't confronted you. Cristov (wolfsong) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: Call for StyleSecretary Help: Let's try discussing/deciding this in IRC (was [mb-style] add instrument request: vacuum cleaner)
LOL yes, give the position to someone that has no spine and will back down at any argument presented to them. you know that i'm only confrontational when confronted.. and i believe most people that don't have thier head in the coulds on IRC realize that as well. -Brian btw-- what exactly ARE the "qualifications" for the "position"? Robert Kaye wrote: > I appreciate you volunteering for this post! > > However, your actions in IRC have shown that you are not qualified for > this position. Your inability or unwillingness to back down from a > conflict and your confrontational style would not make you a good link > editor -- in my opinion. > > I'm sorry. > > On Mar 6, 2006, at 8:20 AM, Brian Gurtler wrote: > >> i have interest in this "Instrument Secretary" thing. >> >> Robert Kaye wrote: >>> >>> On Mar 3, 2006, at 7:47 AM, Don Redman wrote: No not a single Instrument, but I think that Mo's wholly new instrment tree does need testing. For example it might need some "other" leaves, but this is difficult to tell in theory. And finally I am growing tired of all these debates about what should be and what should not be. Testing coud help us all to move the focus onto the question whether a solution is *vaible*, whether it works. >>> >>> Here are a few thoughts on this matter: >>> >>> 1. Mo has an improved instrument tree, we should take a look at it as a >>> starting point. Let's get it loaded on the test server after this >>> sunday. >>> 2. We should appoint an instrument secretary, apart from the main style >>> secretary, who oversees the instrument tree and makes decisions about >>> when/where to add new instruments. >>> 3. I think we should enter in MOST instruments, but not all. I would >>> suggest using criteria like: >>> - If the instrument has a wikipedia entry (that is not marked for >>> deletion or major fixes) it should be added >>> - If not, the person wishing to add the instrument, should find N >>> references to this instrument being used on albums. I would think that 5 >>> references might be a good starting point. >>> - Instruments with less than N references should simply be marked as >>> "other". Or perhaps "other wind", "other strings", "other percussion". >>> -- >>> >>> --ruaok Somewhere in Texas a village is *still* missing its >>> idiot. >>> >>> Robert Kaye -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --http://mayhem-chaos.net >>> >>> ___ >>> Musicbrainz-style mailing list >>> Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org >>> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style >>> >> ___ >> Musicbrainz-style mailing list >> Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org >> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style >> > -- > > --ruaok Somewhere in Texas a village is *still* missing its idiot. > > Robert Kaye -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --http://mayhem-chaos.net > > ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] add instrument request: vacuum cleaner
at least one album and a ton of live shows it's already been established that it will be added as per Redman i'm tired of requesting it. just add the vacuum like our "minister" said he would. Robert Kaye wrote: > > On Mar 22, 2006, at 7:37 PM, Brian Gurtler wrote: > >> mos thingy is live. >> now can we have our vacuum cleaner? > > You have not demonstrated 5 uses of a vacuum cleaner in published works. > > There was an ambiguity over the 5 references -- I would like to see 5 > published albums reference the instrument before we add it. I think 5 > artists is too much, and 5 tracks too little. > > >> -- > > --ruaok Somewhere in Texas a village is *still* missing its idiot. > > Robert Kaye -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --http://mayhem-chaos.net > > ___ > Musicbrainz-style mailing list > Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style > ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] add instrument request: vacuum cleaner
On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 05:05:12PM -0800, Robert Kaye wrote: > > On Mar 22, 2006, at 7:37 PM, Brian Gurtler wrote: > > >mos thingy is live. > >now can we have our vacuum cleaner? > > You have not demonstrated 5 uses of a vacuum cleaner in published works. > > There was an ambiguity over the 5 references -- I would like to see 5 > published albums reference the instrument before we add it. I think 5 > artists is too much, and 5 tracks too little. Tom Z? used one. I'd have to find my copy of Brazil Classics IV for that though. Cyro Baptista used one. http://www.cyrobaptista.com/page.cfm?content=news We usually open the show with this piece, swirling the vacuum cleaner hoses in the air. Here we close the album with it so you can keep you laughing and bogeying. That's two. Well... you asked ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Evil overlord implementation: Historical Countries and Europe
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006, Robert Kaye wrote: OK, short of minor corrections I did not see any significant arguments that should change my course. Thus I've changed/added the following countries: id | isocode | name -+-+ 61 | TL | East Timor 235 | YU | Yugoslavia (historical, 1918-1992) 236 | CD | Congo, The Democratic Republic of the 239 | XU | [Unknown Country] 240 | XW | [Worldwide] 241 | XE | Europe 242 | CS | Serbia and Montenegro 243 | SU | Soviet Union (historical, 1922-1991) 244 | XG | East Germany (historical, 1949-1990) 245 | XC | Czechoslovakia (historical, 1918-1992) It seems North and South Korea have been clarified as well :) 112 | KP | Korea (North), Democratic People's Republic of 113 | KR | Korea (South), Republic of Steve ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] add instrument request: vacuum cleaner
On Mar 22, 2006, at 7:37 PM, Brian Gurtler wrote: mos thingy is live. now can we have our vacuum cleaner? You have not demonstrated 5 uses of a vacuum cleaner in published works. There was an ambiguity over the 5 references -- I would like to see 5 published albums reference the instrument before we add it. I think 5 artists is too much, and 5 tracks too little. -- --ruaok Somewhere in Texas a village is *still* missing its idiot. Robert Kaye -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --http://mayhem-chaos.net ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: Call for StyleSecretary Help: Let's try discussing/deciding this in IRC (was [mb-style] add instrument request: vacuum cleaner)
On Mar 6, 2006, at 8:20 AM, Brian Gurtler wrote: i have interest in this "Instrument Secretary" thing. After much deliberation, the post of "Instrument Secretary" is still open. Anyone interested, please send me mail. -- --ruaok Somewhere in Texas a village is *still* missing its idiot. Robert Kaye -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --http://mayhem-chaos.net ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
[mb-style] Evil overlord implementation: Historical Countries and Europe
OK, short of minor corrections I did not see any significant arguments that should change my course. Thus I've changed/added the following countries: id | isocode | name -+-+ 61 | TL | East Timor 235 | YU | Yugoslavia (historical, 1918-1992) 236 | CD | Congo, The Democratic Republic of the 239 | XU | [Unknown Country] 240 | XW | [Worldwide] 241 | XE | Europe 242 | CS | Serbia and Montenegro 243 | SU | Soviet Union (historical, 1922-1991) 244 | XG | East Germany (historical, 1949-1990) 245 | XC | Czechoslovakia (historical, 1918-1992) Also, FX, France Metropolitan has been removed. Note that the country code for the DDR was suggested as XD, but since the name was changed, I ended up using XG. Finally, the rule for creating more historical countries is not governed by an arbitrary number of releases for a country, but by "the currently accepted community decision making process". If someone wanted to propose a new historical country today, said person would propose this country on this list and the community will discuss the merit of the suggestion. If the community can't decide, we kick the idea back to me, the evil overlord. This process may change over time, thus the phrasing of the 'currently accepted process'. Your evil overlord has spoken! -- --ruaok Somewhere in Texas a village is *still* missing its idiot. Robert Kaye -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --http://mayhem-chaos.net ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Two issues here
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 agreed! i have had similar problems before and it's quite annoying and ballsy. In fact I wouldn't mind if this type of action resulted in temporary loss of privileges. automoderators != all knowing Marco Sola wrote: > > 2) Also IMHO, approving moderation with pending Nos should be a) > disabled b) anyway avoided by any automod. > > Ciao > > MArco (ClutchEr2) > ___ > Musicbrainz-style mailing list > Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEJHHV2YJNWTt8ApARAmHqAKCH7pO2eBGSrANS501dia8SI9r8eACgnU/B UAkGebCzsmysty6AA8ySB+A= =fW/i -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Two issues here
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marco Sola wrote: > - > > 2) Also IMHO, approving moderation with pending Nos should be a) > disabled b) anyway avoided by any automod. > agreed! i have had similar problems before and it's quite annoying and ballsy. In fact I wouldn't mind if this type of action resulted in temporary loss of privileges. automod != all knowing -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEJHF32YJNWTt8ApARAqVbAJ4mUypzaGOGYyVf8G4tWmppXPOhKQCaA2iY dM2Ocgj/V9ixeby0+iyfLfg= =Kep9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [other] Re: [mailing] Re: [mb-style] Re: Two issues here
2006/3/24, Marco Sola: > But the average classical album is simply something like "Symphony No. 3 & > No. 5". Then it is re-re-re-released and the cover title changes depending > to the artwork guy mood: this does not happen in pop. But we (IMHO) properly > merge them because they are really the same album. I know this is getting off-topic, but I can't resist asking. This is something that has been less than clear for me. MB suggests to enter precise realease dates and countries, but we merge (and I did it too) albums that were probably different editions (with different release dates and even countries) at least in classical music. Is this one of the differences between classical and other styles? Are we entitled to more or less forget about relase matters in classical as long as the track listing and timings are the same? I like the idea but I would like to be sure this is the rule. -- Frederic Da Vitoria ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [other] Re: [mailing] Re: [mb-style] Re: Two issues here
- Original Message - From: "Björn Krombholz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "MusicBrainz style discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:50 PM Subject: [other] Re: [mailing] Re: [mb-style] Re: Two issues here IMHO CoverArt should be followed paying much attention even in popular music. In ClassicalMusic should not be followed *at all* because works seldom have a real title created by the composer, time to time some strange AlbumTitle done by Performer. IMO the album title is the only individual thing that helps identifying one album. This is even more important in the classical section, because there are so many albums with very similar content. If you compose an album title from the album content, then this would be just a summary of the track list. So I'd suggest to use the title from the cover in an even stricter way for classical albums than for rock/pop albums. Which one? Front? Back? Side? The often are a lot different in classical. Anyway I agree with you, sorry I wasn't that clear on the above statement. I meant, the few cases a classical album has a proper title, this should be used, for the exact reason you reported here. Let's do a fictious example: Ludwig van Beethoven - "Romantic Symphonies: 3 & 5" But the average classical album is simply something like "Symphony No. 3 & No. 5". Then it is re-re-re-released and the cover title changes depending to the artwork guy mood: this does not happen in pop. But we (IMHO) properly merge them because they are really the same album. There's really no need to keep separate "3 and 5" from "3 Op. 32 - 5 Op. 65" or from "3+5" or what else. Better choose some sort of simple naming convention and be consistent. After all the composer did not "name" these so no ArtistIntent could be invoked. Ciao MArco (ClutchEr2) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mailing] Re: [mb-style] Re: Two issues here
On 3/24/06, Marco Sola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > IMHO CoverArt should be followed paying much attention even in popular > music. In ClassicalMusic should not be followed *at all* because works > seldom have a real title created by the composer, time to time some strange > AlbumTitle done by Performer. I disagree and share Frederic's opinion on this. What has an album title to do with the works on the album, that are described by the track titles? IMO the album title is the only individual thing that helps identifying one album. This is even more important in the classical section, because there are so many albums with very similar content. If you compose an album title from the album content, then this would be just a summary of the track list. So I'd suggest to use the title from the cover in an even stricter way for classical albums than for rock/pop albums. #Fuchs ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Vinyl: Single vs. EP
On Friday 24 March 2006 13:55, Cristov Russell wrote: > That's not true with vinyl though. EP was a specific size. SP was 7", EP > was 10" (I actually remember 2 different sizes but I think 10" was more > common) and LP was 12" which is why early 12" mixes were called long play > singles way back when. I've a few 10" vinyls here and none of them are EPs. Most of the vinyl EPs I have are extended 7" discs, sometimes 33rpm. My knowledge and collection only goes back to the late 70s though. There is an article on wikipedia concerning the EP at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_play though I don't totally agree with some of it. -- PRAEst76 ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mailing] Re: [mb-style] Re: Two issues here
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:01:32 +0100, wrote: For the example which triggered this dicussion: Its clear that these are symphony numbers, and there are more than one; so let's use "Nos. 2 & 8" there. Using the ampersand is more common that the plain plus "+", so I'd suggest we use this. I'd suggest removing spaces in between the numbers to reduce whitespace, this would result in the following formatting: "Symphonies Nos. 94,96,101,103,104" Eek. Please leave the spaces behind the commas. In any western typescript there is always a space after a period or comma. I am no native English speaker, but in German "Sinfonien Nummern 1 und 2" (Nos.) would be wrong and "Sinfonien Nummer 1 und 2" (No.) would be correct. If this is true in English, too, then it should always be "No." and never "Nos.". DonRedman -- Words that are written in CamelCase refer to WikiPages: Visit http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/ the best MusicBrainz documentation around! :-) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: [mb-style] Two issues here
> 1) Do CSG override cover art? IMHO cover art and liner notes > are overridden so much that when is really needed it has to be. > > "2 and 8" what? No.? Op.? [catalog]? I've never been in agreement that cover art should *globally* be considered evidence of artist intent and in classical music I think there is more argument for having and SG than any other genre. That said, I think it's probably best to update the SG to be clear about plurals and we have several options as to what that looks like. We can drop "No." and not abbreviate "Op.", use "Nos.", only use "No." when referring to single symphonies and the list goes on. -- Cristov [EMAIL PROTECTED] All great truths begin as blasphemies. George Bernard Shaw ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
[mb-style] RE: [mb-automods] Two issues here
> 2) Also IMHO, approving moderation with pending Nos should be > a) disabled b) anyway avoided by any automod. > > Ciao > > MArco (ClutchEr2) I would say this falls under CodeOfConduct [1]. I don't think it should be disabled but some self restraint by automods should be applied. I'll update the doc this evening unless someone else tackles it beforehand. -- Cristov [EMAIL PROTECTED] All great truths begin as blasphemies. George Bernard Shaw [1] http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/CodeOfConduct?highlight=%28codeofconduct%29http: //wiki.musicbrainz.org/CodeOfConduct?highlight=%28codeofconduct%29 ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Vinyl: Single vs. EP
There is no general answer here I think. EP has become a marketing phrase, a bit like "Limited Edition" which i think is the reason the guideline says to mark a release as EP if it says so in the title. That's not true with vinyl though. EP was a specific size. SP was 7", EP was 10" (I actually remember 2 different sizes but I think 10" was more common) and LP was 12" which is why early 12" mixes were called long play singles way back when. This isn't true either - EPs were generally 7" singles way back when. 10"s were largely Shellac 78s. EPs were singles which were too long to be eligible for chart entry (until about '67 when EPs were included in the singles charts). I think in later years the 10" just embodied the "too long for single, not long enough for album" idea because of their size. 12"s released from about the 80s onwards which had more than two tracks were generally called Maxi-Singles but I think this was in the US only? Laters Simon ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mailing] Re: [mb-style] Re: Two issues here
... But still, as far as I can see, nobody has clearly stated what would be the benefits of applying these rules to album titles (except for adding performers and normalizing disc numbers). g0llum, do you have any justification? I see clearly the benefit for tracks (as long as we don't have a WORKS table), but not for albums. Some album adds will be rejected just because of album title rules. So there must be an advantage to balance this. -- Frederic Da Vitoria ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: [mailing] Re: [mb-style] Re: Two issues here
> > "Symphonies Nos.94, 96, 101, 103, 104". > > > > Do you suggest that I should enter my cd as > > > > "Symphonie Hob. 1 No. 94 / Symphonie Hob. 1 No. 96 / > Symphonie Hob. 1 > > No. 101 / Symphonie Hob. 1 No. 103 / Symphonie Hob. 1 No. 104 I did not mean to suggest that you should unneccessarily duplicate information, but having a styleguide which says to use "Nos." for multiple symphonies, and add a space after the "." would be sufficient IMO. For the example which triggered this dicussion: Its clear that these are symphony numbers, and there are more than one; so let's use "Nos. 2 & 8" there. Using the ampersand is more common that the plain plus "+", so I'd suggest we use this. I'd suggest removing spaces in between the numbers to reduce whitespace, this would result in the following formatting: "Symphonies Nos. 94,96,101,103,104" > In ClassicalMusic should not be followed *at all* > because works seldom have a real title created by > the composer, time to time some strange I agree. > BTW, it's easy to call it "Symphony 2 & 8", why don't call it > http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B02SSQ.01._SCLZZZ_.jpg Because there is a defintion how numbers should/could? be formatted in http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/PartNumberStyle. I know this is a weak guideline, but nevertheless it would make sense IMO to use this consistently where possible. g0llum ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: [mb-style] Vinyl: Single vs. EP
> There is no general answer here I think. EP has become a > marketing phrase, a bit like "Limited Edition" which i think > is the reason the guideline says to mark a release as EP if > it says so in the title. That's not true with vinyl though. EP was a specific size. SP was 7", EP was 10" (I actually remember 2 different sizes but I think 10" was more common) and LP was 12" which is why early 12" mixes were called long play singles way back when. Cristov (wolfsong) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mailing] Re: [mb-style] Re: Two issues here
2006/3/24, Marco Sola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > BTW, it's easy to call it "Symphony 2 & 8", why don't call it only "2+8"? > http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B02SSQ.01._SCLZZZ_.jpg You have a point, here :-D -- Frederic Da Vitoria ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mailing] Re: [mb-style] Re: Two issues here
Il Friday, March 24, 2006 2:06 PM Frederic Da Vitoria <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto: I have here a cd titled "Symphonies Nos.94, 96, 101, 103, 104". Do you suggest that I should enter my cd as "Symphonie Hob. 1 No. 94 / Symphonie Hob. 1 No. 96 / Symphonie Hob. 1 No. 101 / Symphonie Hob. 1 No. 103 / Symphonie Hob. 1 No. 104 Yes and no. You're somehow right: naming rules is an open issue, even if it has to be opened or not. But let me say that what we are discussing here is the prevalence of CoverArt in ClassicalMusic. IMHO CoverArt should be followed paying much attention even in popular music. In ClassicalMusic should not be followed *at all* because works seldom have a real title created by the composer, time to time some strange AlbumTitle done by Performer. Maybe there's really no need to be so strict in naming but I think lightly following some easy rules could only help. Anyway CovertArt simply does not matter here BTW, it's easy to call it "Symphony 2 & 8", why don't call it only "2+8"? http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B02SSQ.01._SCLZZZ_.jpg Ciao MArco (Clutcher2) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Re: Two issues here
g0llum, Precisely, I see problems. And I still don't see what it would achieve. Problems: If we say that the album title should be reproduced ditto, it is easy, no rule to enforce, a simple link to the album at amazon or cduniverse will enable anyone to check that the album title is correct. If you try to apply normalization rules, what do you do about the examples I put above? Do you really think we will be able to agree on something? I have here a cd titled "Symphonies Nos.94, 96, 101, 103, 104". Let us forget about the performers, I guess we both agree that it should be appended to the title. Do you suggest that I should enter my cd as "Symphonie Hob. 1 No. 94 / Symphonie Hob. 1 No. 96 / Symphonie Hob. 1 No. 101 / Symphonie Hob. 1 No. 103 / Symphonie Hob. 1 No. 104 (Philarmonia Hungarica feat. conductor: Antal Dorati)"? What would be the benefit of this? Any user and any script can find the works in the track titles, so I don't see what you would achieve with title rules that couldn't be made using the tracks. Some modders suggest that "common" names should be included. I won't even try! 2006/3/24, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > The album is not even in the database?! Was it a pending add album > moderation? And yes, I don't see any reason why the CSG should not be > applied to album titles, too. There's the performer information, the > annotations and the number of tracks available to indentify an album. > > g0llum > > ps. The approval of this mod calls not for a change of the approve feature, > but more community effort on following the codeofconduct, I agree with luks > on that. > > > > -Original Message- > > Behalf Of Marco Sola > > Subject: [mb-style] Re: Two issues here > > http://musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=4488092 > > > ___ > Musicbrainz-style mailing list > Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style > -- Frederic Da Vitoria ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: [mb-style] Re: Two issues here
The album is not even in the database?! Was it a pending add album moderation? And yes, I don't see any reason why the CSG should not be applied to album titles, too. There's the performer information, the annotations and the number of tracks available to indentify an album. g0llum ps. The approval of this mod calls not for a change of the approve feature, but more community effort on following the codeofconduct, I agree with luks on that. > -Original Message- > Behalf Of Marco Sola > Subject: [mb-style] Re: Two issues here > http://musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=4488092 ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Two issues here
I will try to reformulate here why I think you might be wrong. But
after all, if we all agreed, there would be discussion ;-)
An album title IMO is essentially a way to find an album. Not to
identify it (since too many albums have the same title, especially in
classical), but still. For example, when I submit to Picard an album
he doesn't recognize, he shows me a page with compatible albums,
showing me the titles. Here, I would expect the title in the list to
be the same as what I see on the actual CD. I understand adding the
performers, but they are added at the end, so I know what is left of
the performers is or should be ditto what I see on the cover.
I don't think there is any NEED to reformulate things such as "number"
in the album title. There are too many different ways a CD editor
could have titled a CD with more than one work. Think of how some
works could be named differently: Haydn symphonies with or without
"London" ("the London symphonies", "Symphonies 93 - 104"...),
Beethoven's quartets ("Razumovsky quartets" or "Quartets op. 59"...) I
don't think any script could hope to reliably extract information from
this mess. Defining a rule that would avoid this problem would
probably very difficult and would require a great musical culture from
the modders. Furthermore, naming conventions when a cd contains more
than work are still debated (see mod 4213547)
This is not true for the track titles where we should apply strict
naming rules. Since most of the time a track holds a unique work,
defining strict rules and sticking to them is much easier. In track
titles, if we stick to the rules, we can search MB for a specific
classical work and from there find the album.
2006/3/24, Marco Sola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 1) Do CSG override cover art? IMHO cover art and liner notes are overridden
> so much that when is really needed it has to be.
>
> "2 and 8" what? No.? Op.? [catalog]?
>
> -
>
> 2) Also IMHO, approving moderation with pending Nos should be a) disabled b)
> anyway avoided by any automod.
>
> Ciao
>
> MArco (ClutchEr2)
>
> ___
> Musicbrainz-style mailing list
> Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org
> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
>
--
Frederic Da Vitoria
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[mb-style] Re: Two issues here
Sorry, link missing http://musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=4488092 Ciao MArco (ClutchEr2) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
[mb-style] Two issues here
1) Do CSG override cover art? IMHO cover art and liner notes are overridden so much that when is really needed it has to be. "2 and 8" what? No.? Op.? [catalog]? - 2) Also IMHO, approving moderation with pending Nos should be a) disabled b) anyway avoided by any automod. Ciao MArco (ClutchEr2) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Vinyl: Single vs. EP
that's a good summary :) there's no set rule - it's entirely artist intent. eg, there are many 7" EPs, and many 12" singles. "I usually look upon an ep as being intended as a mini-album itself rather than an "A" track with supporting material, but there are exceptions even to this." this is probably the best 'rule' but as you say, it's certainly not infallible :) Chris On 24/03/06, PRAEst76 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Friday 24 March 2006 04:20, 999 wrote: > > > I've come across 2 track releases that are labeled EPs and singles with > > 4 tracks. But want a general answer, because most releases don't have > > the word EP in their title. > > There is no general answer here I think. EP has become a marketing phrase, a > bit like "Limited Edition" which i think is the reason the guideline says to > mark a release as EP if it says so in the title. The length of the release > doesn't seem to matter, I have 12" singles here that push album length and > EPs that aren't even 10 minutes long. > > Ultimately it depends on how the release was marketed and the intent of the > artist and something that can only really be decided on a per-release basis > but generally proper EPs are relatively rare. > > I usually look upon an ep as being intended as a mini-album itself rather than > an "A" track with supporting material, but there are exceptions even to this. > > -- > PRAEst76 > ___ > Musicbrainz-style mailing list > Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style > ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Vinyl: Single vs. EP
On Friday 24 March 2006 04:20, 999 wrote: > I've come across 2 track releases that are labeled EPs and singles with > 4 tracks. But want a general answer, because most releases don't have > the word EP in their title. There is no general answer here I think. EP has become a marketing phrase, a bit like "Limited Edition" which i think is the reason the guideline says to mark a release as EP if it says so in the title. The length of the release doesn't seem to matter, I have 12" singles here that push album length and EPs that aren't even 10 minutes long. Ultimately it depends on how the release was marketed and the intent of the artist and something that can only really be decided on a per-release basis but generally proper EPs are relatively rare. I usually look upon an ep as being intended as a mini-album itself rather than an "A" track with supporting material, but there are exceptions even to this. -- PRAEst76 ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
