Re: [mb-style] Looking for a new style leader
On Jul 10, 2008, at 10:37 PM, Jim DeLaHunt wrote: > > Of course it's obvious to anyone who sees how he dresses that Jim is > hopelessly unqualified to be a "style leader". And apparently you don't understand the concept of a private email either. ;-) Seriously.. I think you understand the task at hand, and its a pretty daunting one. It seems that we haven't figured out the magic recipe for a distributed style mechanism. Why? Because its hard -- without a dedicated person putting in effort constantly you apparently can't do it. [0] So, in May I spent a few lovely hours with Christoph König (aka Don Redman, our former style leader) and discussed the current state of affairs here and bantered back and forth on what should be done and how. This helped me define a set of requirements that I think are important for a new style process: - The process should define a rough method for how a style issue gets turned from an idea into a concrete proposal that clearly outlines how the guidelines will change. I don't think the process should define what tools get used to form a proposal, but I think it should clearly define the process of how a proposal is reviewed and accepted/ rejected. It would be good to outline a few example methods to create a proposal. - Instead of working out complex proposals on this mailing list, we should encourage like-minded people to form ad-hoc groups on a particular style issue. These ad-hoc groups should collect input from the community at large and then go about solving a particular issue. It might very well be useful to the group to carry out this initial phase in private. This would keep a lid on the communication in the early stages of a proposal. Once the group finishes a proposal, the proposal should come into the view of the public and be reviewed by everyone who cares to look at it. - Panda discussed creating templates that might give some structure to style proposals. This might give some much needed structure to the overfall process: to create a proposal, use an existing template and fill it out completely. Concrete steps to follow. If the issue doesn't fit one of the available templates, find another way to express/propos the issue. Maybe create a new template while you're at it. - Each proposal should probably include some very basic components. A motivation section that describes the issue at hand, an example case section and a clearly stated goal that the proposal is supposed to solve. - No one person should be able to ham-string the process. No single user vetos. But there must be room for an orderly community revolt in case the process (nukes the fridge/jumps the shark/jumps off the rails). - The style leader should work with myself and perhaps a handful of other people to define this new process. Then this process needs to be documented and set into motion. Initially there would be lots and lots of work to take care of the backlog of issues. Ideally though the style leader should only work when there is a deadlock in the community. Or endless arguing on a point -- the leader should assess the situation, make a decision and move the discussion on. The style leader should be a guide. A tie breaker. A consensus former. Apply lube as needed to keep the process running. Oh, if you want to give a new name to our style process/council/ whatever, please do. Perhaps its time to bring back the term "Style Cabal". :) After-all, the Style Leader position is a benevolent dictator position. Jim: I would love to hear what you think of my ideas and how you would tackle the task of defining a working style process! > I mean really, a fleece > jacket in July. He must live in Canada or something. Oh canadia! [1] [0] http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/02/the_bottom_is_n.php [1] http://flickr.com/photos/mayhem/267098825/ -- --ruaok Somewhere in Texas a village is *still* missing its idiot. Robert Kaye -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --http://mayhem-chaos.net ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Looking for a new style leader
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:28:58PM +0200, Frederic Da Vitoria wrote: > This is absolutely not against Jim, but do we really need a style leader? I > mean, do we need someone to hold such a formal position? Yes :) -- kuno / warp. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Looking for a new style leader
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 7:37 AM, Jim DeLaHunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Robert Kaye wrote: > > > > ... > >>> FYI: http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=332 > > > > If you have any thoughts on Jim being the style leader, please drop me > > a *private* email. > > > > Of course it's obvious to anyone who sees how he dresses that Jim is > hopelessly unqualified to be a "style leader". I mean really, a fleece > jacket in July. He must live in Canada or something. > You must be a style leader: I am wearing the same :-D -- Frederic Da Vitoria ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Looking for a new style leader
Robert Kaye wrote: > > ... >>> FYI: http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=332 > > If you have any thoughts on Jim being the style leader, please drop me > a *private* email. > Of course it's obvious to anyone who sees how he dresses that Jim is hopelessly unqualified to be a "style leader". I mean really, a fleece jacket in July. He must live in Canada or something. - -- http://jdlh.com/ Jim DeLaHunt , Vancouver, Canada • http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/JimDeLaHunt -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Looking-for-a-new-style-leader-tp18205649s2885p18397085.html Sent from the Musicbrainz - Style mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Looking for a new style leader
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:39 PM, Andrew Conkling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 16:28, Frederic Da Vitoria <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Robert Kaye <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> On Jul 10, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Robert Kaye wrote: >>> > On Jun 30, 2008, at 3:22 PM, Robert Kaye wrote: >>> >> FYI: http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=332 >>> >> >> This is absolutely not against Jim, but do we really need a style leader? >> I mean, do we need someone to hold such a formal position? >> > > From the blog post: > > "The style guideline process has been stuck in neutral for quite some time" > "The major difference is that the new style leader would have the authority > and presence to move these proposals along when they get stuck." > > I can't help but, well, completely agree with these comments. Without such > a role, it's been hard to keep any momentum. > Good point. -- Frederic Da Vitoria ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Looking for a new style leader
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 16:28, Frederic Da Vitoria <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Robert Kaye <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Jul 10, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Robert Kaye wrote: >> > On Jun 30, 2008, at 3:22 PM, Robert Kaye wrote: >> >> FYI: http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=332 >> > > This is absolutely not against Jim, but do we really need a style leader? I > mean, do we need someone to hold such a formal position? >From the blog post: "The style guideline process has been stuck in neutral for quite some time" "The major difference is that the new style leader would have the authority and presence to move these proposals along when they get stuck." I can't help but, well, completely agree with these comments. Without such a role, it's been hard to keep any momentum. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Looking for a new style leader
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Robert Kaye <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 10, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Robert Kaye wrote: > > > On Jun 30, 2008, at 3:22 PM, Robert Kaye wrote: > > > >> FYI: http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=332 > >> > >> Panda won't be the next style leader -- real life swallowed him > >> whole. :-( > > > > Sigh. Zero responses in total. > > Ooops, that was not correct. Jim DeLaHunt expressed interest. > > If you have any thoughts on Jim being the style leader, please drop me > a *private* email. > > Thanks! This is absolutely not against Jim, but do we really need a style leader? I mean, do we need someone to hold such a formal position? -- Frederic Da Vitoria ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Looking for a new style leader
On Jul 10, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Robert Kaye wrote: > > On Jun 30, 2008, at 3:22 PM, Robert Kaye wrote: > >> FYI: http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=332 >> >> Panda won't be the next style leader -- real life swallowed him >> whole. :-( > > Sigh. Zero responses in total. Ooops, that was not correct. Jim DeLaHunt expressed interest. If you have any thoughts on Jim being the style leader, please drop me a *private* email. Thanks! -- --ruaok Somewhere in Texas a village is *still* missing its idiot. Robert Kaye -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --http://mayhem-chaos.net ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Looking for a new style leader
On Jun 30, 2008, at 3:22 PM, Robert Kaye wrote: > FYI: http://blog.musicbrainz.org/?p=332 > > Panda won't be the next style leader -- real life swallowed him > whole. :-( Sigh. Zero responses in total. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to proceed with the Style Council? -- --ruaok Somewhere in Texas a village is *still* missing its idiot. Robert Kaye -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --http://mayhem-chaos.net ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] RFC: Wording change on BonusDisc (was: [mb-users], Bonus discs: "Official" or "Promotion"?)
On 7/7/08, Thomas Tholén <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have loads of releases with prints like that that I wouldn't (but maybe > you?) consider promos. They're all self-released CD-Rs and casettes where > the artist in question didn't bother to clear samples ans such, because they > know they're not going to make any money on it anyway. Uncleared samples would make them bootlegs, wouldn't it :) I just think 'is not for sale' doesn't automatically make it a promo. And I don't think 'is for sale' means it's not a promo. It's a contextual thing, terminology, maybe this is a genre difference. But then, I don't think something that is for sale is a demo either (but a lot of self-released CD-R's are), and apparently metaldom does tend to use 'demo' where most other genres would call it a promo. Which only confuses things even further. -- Lauri Watts ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
