Re: [mb-style] Person as publisher

2008-08-17 Thread Philip Jägenstedt
In this 
(http://musicbrainz.org/release/ccdeb01d-ecdf-4a9f-aeb2-c7c88ba52a1e.html)
case the credits are:

發行 Distributed by:新力博德曼音樂娛樂股份有限公司 Published by SONY BMG MUSIC
ENTERTAINMENT (TAIWAN) LTD.
出品人 Publisher:楊峻榮 JR Yang

Sony BMG is not a surprise, they always appear on the cover together
with the actual label (Alpha Records or JVR Music) on Jay Chou's
records. However, JR Yang does not have any creative part in this
album, he's just some director type of guy at JVR music. It doesn't
sound like he could be the publisher in the sense that you just
described. Are there any other possibilities?

Philip

On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 7:23 AM, Lauri Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Philip Jägenstedt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> After reading http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/PublisherRelationshipType
>> I'm fairly confused. I have two Jay Chou albums where an individual is
>> listed as "publisher" and a record label is credited with "published
>> by". Can a person be the publisher of an album? What does it mean if
>> both a person and an organization published the same album?
>>
>> Philip
>
> Publishing rights are generally split in two: Writer's Share and
> Publisher's Share.  An Independent song writer will own both, and
> often sells or leases the 'Publisher's Share' to either a publishing
> company or the record label (or most often, the Record Label's
> publishing company).  These are the rights you hear of falling back to
> artists after their record deals expire, etc.
>
> Songwriters working for a label, are writing under the 'work for hire'
> laws, so the publishing company (or label) ends up with both halves.
>
> Either way, most people are happy for the publishing company that's
> making a lot of money off their backs, to handle
> legal/contact/licensing issues, so even if they are the ones who get
> their name on the CD.
>
> Like copyright, you don't have to publish your name alongside the work
> to retain the publishing rights (or your share of them) so most CD's
> just don't have it on there.
>
> But yes, most songs actually in a legal sense have two publishers, and
> it's entirely possible one or both of them is a person.
>
> I'll dig you out some resources later if you're interested (ones that
> explain it a bit more clearly than I just did :)
>
> --
> Lauri Watts
>
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>
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Re: [mb-style] Person as publisher

2008-08-17 Thread Lauri Watts
On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Philip Jägenstedt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> After reading http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/PublisherRelationshipType
> I'm fairly confused. I have two Jay Chou albums where an individual is
> listed as "publisher" and a record label is credited with "published
> by". Can a person be the publisher of an album? What does it mean if
> both a person and an organization published the same album?
>
> Philip

Publishing rights are generally split in two: Writer's Share and
Publisher's Share.  An Independent song writer will own both, and
often sells or leases the 'Publisher's Share' to either a publishing
company or the record label (or most often, the Record Label's
publishing company).  These are the rights you hear of falling back to
artists after their record deals expire, etc.

Songwriters working for a label, are writing under the 'work for hire'
laws, so the publishing company (or label) ends up with both halves.

Either way, most people are happy for the publishing company that's
making a lot of money off their backs, to handle
legal/contact/licensing issues, so even if they are the ones who get
their name on the CD.

Like copyright, you don't have to publish your name alongside the work
to retain the publishing rights (or your share of them) so most CD's
just don't have it on there.

But yes, most songs actually in a legal sense have two publishers, and
it's entirely possible one or both of them is a person.

I'll dig you out some resources later if you're interested (ones that
explain it a bit more clearly than I just did :)

-- 
Lauri Watts

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[mb-style] album version, original mix, etc.

2008-08-17 Thread Tim
Forgive me for beating a 2-years-dead horse, but I have not yet given my
thoughts on the issue. I believe that if there was any consensus in the
discussions I have been catching up on, it is all voices are welcome. To
begin:

I believe that unique tracks should have unique track names across all
releases. This seems to be essential for distinguishability of tracks by
their track names, effectively describing any differences in sound (ie
unique tracks) with unique, specific track name information. (Note I am not
using the term TrackName; by "track name" I mean everything after the artist
name.) I also believe the converse: that unique track names should be paired
with unique tracks across all releases. There should be no doubt as to what
sound (unique track) one is referring to given a track name. To summarize:
every unique track should be paired with one and only one unique track name.
Each name has one sound and each sound has one name.

Therefore, it follows that if a physical release lists "Funky Shit (album
version)" in its tracklisting, and this recording is the exact same as
"Funky Shit" on the actual album that "album version" is referring to, or
whatever is chosen to be the default or main version, (that is, if tracks
labelled as "Funky Shit (original mix)" and "Funky Shit (album version)" are
non-unique, identical sounds), then their names should be somehow merged
conform to the above one-to-one rule (ie, they should both be labelled
"Funky Shit"; this is one pair.)

Similarly, if two physical releases both list "Funky Shit" names but they
actually contain unique sounds, then these unique sounds should be given
unique names, overidding the tracklisting just as we would for a spelling
mistake. If one "Funky Shit" comes from a single release and the other from
a full album, then the first should be called "Funky Shit (single edit)" (or
something similar), assuming we have chosen the sound from the album to be
worthy of the default, base name (no extra parentheticals) as we normally
do. (Or, if the single contains the default sound, then its tracklisting
should say "Funky Shit," and the album's listing should say "Funky Shit
(album version)"


Therefore, I address all who favor full inclusion (or full removal) of
"album version" and similar ExtraTitleInformation by responding to a list of
arguments from an earlier discussion:

"we loose version information when it's removed" -- If the track is not
actually a version of the default (ie if we do not actaully have two unique
sounds), then it should not be labelled as such.

"in line with 'state what is on the cover'" -- Everyone seems to agree that
covers are sometimes wrong. There are misspellings and mislabellings.

"when [album version is] removed, a release can have two tracks with the
same name, making the track listing ambiguous" -- Then fix the mistaken
listing. Either call one of the "(single edit)" or the other "(album
version)".

"The album version isn't necessarily the main version, and the album version
may not be called an album version but instead LP version, 12" version, etc.
and in both cases the version info is kept." -- If we match all sounds to
unique names, then it doesn't matter how a track is incorrectly labelled (LP
version, 12" version, album version, or even original mix), if it shares the
same sound as the default-ly named sound, then it should be given the
default name.

"There's currently an inconsistency in assumptions we make, i.e. an
unlabelled track on a live release is a live version, but an unlabelled
track on a single release is an album version" -- From all of the above, it
follows that "unlabelled tracks" (what I interpet to mean default-ly named
tracks, to be consistent with terminology I used earlier) on live releases
(assuming they differ in sound from the default-ly named tracks) should be
labelled (live), and unlabelled (again, default-ly named) tracks on single
releases should be labelled (single edit) if they differ in sound from the
true default; otherwise, if the unlabelled tracks do not differ from their
true default versions, then they should retain their default names.

I left out the middle one, as I think it's the best, and it drives to a
deeper issue:
"SameTrackRelationshipType is the AR that can state that two tracks have the
same content; no need to rename them all to the same name" -- I wrote my
first paragraph really from the "tagging" purpose/perspective, assuming that
all tracks should be uniquely identified by fields available in ID3, and
vice versa, not from otherwise invisible musicbrainz-specific meta-data.
That is, hopefully all musicbrainz data that actually identifies a track as
unique could be contained in text as ExtraTitleInformation. If two tracks
are identical and share SameTrackRelationshipType, then their ID3 track
title field (and total musicbrainz name) should be the same. If two tracks
have been identified as non-unique with RemasterRelastionshipType, then one
of the tracks shoul

[mb-style] Person as publisher

2008-08-17 Thread Philip Jägenstedt
After reading http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/PublisherRelationshipType
I'm fairly confused. I have two Jay Chou albums where an individual is
listed as "publisher" and a record label is credited with "published
by". Can a person be the publisher of an album? What does it mean if
both a person and an organization published the same album?

Philip

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