Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Bernd Jagla]

Thanks to everybody for the nice discussion.

Just to let you know about  my (not necessary final) decisions:
We will upgrade our SCSI -II controller to an Ultra SCSI 160 controller
(always a good idea).
Next we are looking into buying a RAID-5 system from RAIDking.
While we do this we hope for the best

Thanks again for you kind help.

Bernd



 
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Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Jeremy Zawodny]

On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 03:20:17PM -0400, Adam Nelson wrote:
> Where'd you get it.  I've had bad experiences with generic machines but
> I'll take a peak if you send the link?
> 
> There are a couple of things I didn't mention
> 
> 2U Form Factor with tool-less rails
> Redundant Power Supply
> Redundant Fans (any 2 fans can go)
> Battery Backed RAID for full commit even on abrupt power loss
> dual Gbit ethernet
> Remote Console/Power administration without Operating System
> 400 MHz FSB
> DVD-ROM
> All drive are hot swap
> Fully supported and tested on RedHat Linux ES 2.1 (no weird hardware
> bugs)
> 
> The last one is worth 5k alone.  I've had generic machines just freeze
> from some weird kernel incompatibility with a raid card.  With 30
> machines though, you can afford to lose one.  For me, with 1 or 2, I
> cannot and must get the best.

Yeah, we use DL-320s, DL-360s, and DL-380s in some cases as DB
servers.  The 380s are quite nice, but they're not cheap either.

Jeremy
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RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Steven Roussey]

> A lot of table scans do to bitmasked column values.
> Such that the above query will not utilize a key.

That statement gave me a cold shiver up my spine.

You could try an inverted index or match-cache technique, or
denormalization. These type of techniques are very app specific, but can
reduce things by a factor of 10 or more. (And it assumes things are
properly normalized as a starting point.) None may work for you, though.
Who knows.

Ug. Tables scans. I don't know if I can sleep tonight. I feel for you. 

At least I know why you need 30 database servers. That has got to be a
sight! I'd love to have such hardware at my disposal! Wow. Have some
fun!

-steve-



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Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Tomasz Korycki]

At 13:14 2003-06-17, Bernd Jagla wrote:
Sorry I forgot to mention:

We are using IRIS on an Origion2000, 7GB memory, 8 CPUs. I was thinking of
spending up to $10K.
I also wanted the redundant data for speeding up the seeks, I also need to
speed up the writes.
Bernd
I assume You mean "IRIX on O2k". If so, Your best bet is to call Your 
friendly snowflake
integrator (oh, soory, Origins do not use snowflake anymore...), but _not_ 
SGI. With one
possible exception: SGI Montreal or Toronto (that's in Canada, so there 
will be no tax), they're not too
far and are used to hopping the border for support/config calls.
Out of interest: which IRIX? maintenance or feature?

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RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Dathan Vance Pattishall]

A lot of table scans do to bitmasked column values.

So

SELECT * FROM search_table where  AND colN & 4;

Such that the above query will not utilize a key.

I was told at the last convention that mySQL had some good ideas on
allowing indexes for bitwise (arithmetic) columns but they are not quite
there yet. It's a hard problem I can only think of a way by having every
possible bit in an index but then that makes the index useless.





-->-Original Message-
-->From: Steven Roussey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-->Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:59 PM
-->To: 'Mysql'
-->Subject: RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience
-->
-->
-->2 x 2.8 GHZ Xeon
-->4 GB of RAM
-->5 15K SCSI Drives
-->ICP SCSCI RAID control card with 1 Gb of ram on it.
-->I just bought 30 of these boxes to build out my mysql farm for close
to
-->400-600 queries a second with 60 connections a second of mix read /
-->writes.
-->
-->
-->What kind of queries are you doing? Our simple dual Athlon, with
-->software RAID and the disks I mentioned before does 3000+ queries a
-->second. I've pushed it to 8000 before, but it got too slow for me.
60/40
-->read/write.
-->
-->-steve-
-->
-->
-->--
-->MySQL General Mailing List
-->For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
-->To unsubscribe:
-->http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Steven Roussey]

2 x 2.8 GHZ Xeon
4 GB of RAM
5 15K SCSI Drives
ICP SCSCI RAID control card with 1 Gb of ram on it.
I just bought 30 of these boxes to build out my mysql farm for close to
400-600 queries a second with 60 connections a second of mix read /
writes.


What kind of queries are you doing? Our simple dual Athlon, with
software RAID and the disks I mentioned before does 3000+ queries a
second. I've pushed it to 8000 before, but it got too slow for me. 60/40
read/write.

-steve-


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RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Adam Nelson]

Where'd you get it.  I've had bad experiences with generic machines but
I'll take a peak if you send the link?

There are a couple of things I didn't mention

2U Form Factor with tool-less rails
Redundant Power Supply
Redundant Fans (any 2 fans can go)
Battery Backed RAID for full commit even on abrupt power loss
dual Gbit ethernet
Remote Console/Power administration without Operating System
400 MHz FSB
DVD-ROM
All drive are hot swap
Fully supported and tested on RedHat Linux ES 2.1 (no weird hardware
bugs)

The last one is worth 5k alone.  I've had generic machines just freeze
from some weird kernel incompatibility with a raid card.  With 30
machines though, you can afford to lose one.  For me, with 1 or 2, I
cannot and must get the best.


> -Original Message-
> From: Dathan Vance Pattishall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 2:39 PM
> To: 'Adam Nelson'; 'mysql'
> Subject: RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -->-Original Message-
> -->From: Adam Nelson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -->Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 11:56 AM
> -->To: 'Bernd Jagla'; 'mysql'
> -->Subject: RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience
> -->
> -->We recently bought a kick $%#%% machine for ~10k
> -->
> -->HP DL380
> -->2x2.8GHz Xeon
> -->1GB RAM
> -->5 15k scsi drives (2 RAID 1 for OS and logs/3 RAID 5 for data)
> -->RedHat Linux Enterprise Edition 2.1
> 
> You overpaid by 5K
> 
> 2 x 2.8 GHZ Xeon
> 4 GB of RAM
> 5 15K SCSI Drives
> ICP SCSCI RAID control card with 1 Gb of ram on it.
> I just bought 30 of these boxes to build out my mysql farm 
> for close to
> 400-600 queries a second with 60 connections a second of mix read /
> writes.
>  
> 
> -->
> -->
> -->This machine easily handles 200 queries/sec and never gets a load
> -->average above 1.5.  For your space requirements, you may 
> need the HP
> -->ML370 with 5 RAID 5 drives.  An important thing to remember is that
> the
> -->raid card is very fast and the more drives (to a point) you put on
> it,
> -->the better, so better to have 5 smaller drives than 3 
> bigger drives.
> -->The reason we use raid 5 is that 95% of our queries are 
> selects.  If
> -->your ratio is smaller, you will want to consider RAID 1 or 10.
> Another
> -->thing I recommend is to stay with the big players (IBM,HP) and stay
> away
> -->from Dell which is cut rate.  If you want to save money, 
> get a white
> box
> -->over dell.  Also, we get it from a good salesman at cdw.  
> His address
> is
> -->[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Since they are in Chicago, there is no sales tax.
> -->Lastly, if you're looking to buy soon, HP small-business direct
> -->(www.smb.compaq.com) is offering free shipping until June 30 (but
> then
> -->you have to pay tax - basically the same amount).
> -->
> -->
> -->> -Original Message-
> -->> From: Bernd Jagla [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -->> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 1:15 PM
> -->> To: mysql
> -->> Subject: RAID hardware suggestions/experience
> -->>
> -->>
> -->> Sorry I forgot to mention:
> -->>
> -->> We are using IRIS on an Origion2000, 7GB memory, 8 CPUs. I
> -->> was thinking of
> -->> spending up to $10K.
> -->> I also wanted the redundant data for speeding up the seeks, I
> -->> also need to
> -->> speed up the writes.
> -->>
> -->> Bernd
> -->>
> -->>
> -->>
> -->>
> =
> -->>
> -->>  Please note that this e-mail and any files transmitted
> -->> with it may be
> -->>  privileged, confidential, and protected from 
> disclosure under
> -->>  applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the
> -->> intended
> -->>  recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for
> -->> delivering this
> -->>  message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> -->> notified that any
> -->>  reading, dissemination, distribution, copying, or other
> -->> use of this
> -->>  communication or any of its attachments is strictly
> -->> prohibited.  If
> -->>  you have received this communication in error, please notify
> the
> -->>  sender immediately by replying to this message and deleting
> this
> -->>  message, any attachments, and all copies and 
> backups from your
> -->>  computer.
> -->>
> -->>
> -->
> -->
> -->--
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> -->For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
> -->To unsubscribe:
> -->http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 


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RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Dathan Vance Pattishall]

-->-Original Message-
-->From: Adam Nelson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-->Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 11:56 AM
-->To: 'Bernd Jagla'; 'mysql'
-->Subject: RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience
-->
-->We recently bought a kick $%#%% machine for ~10k
-->
-->HP DL380
-->2x2.8GHz Xeon
-->1GB RAM
-->5 15k scsi drives (2 RAID 1 for OS and logs/3 RAID 5 for data)
-->RedHat Linux Enterprise Edition 2.1

You overpaid by 5K

2 x 2.8 GHZ Xeon
4 GB of RAM
5 15K SCSI Drives
ICP SCSCI RAID control card with 1 Gb of ram on it.
I just bought 30 of these boxes to build out my mysql farm for close to
400-600 queries a second with 60 connections a second of mix read /
writes.
 

-->
-->
-->This machine easily handles 200 queries/sec and never gets a load
-->average above 1.5.  For your space requirements, you may need the HP
-->ML370 with 5 RAID 5 drives.  An important thing to remember is that
the
-->raid card is very fast and the more drives (to a point) you put on
it,
-->the better, so better to have 5 smaller drives than 3 bigger drives.
-->The reason we use raid 5 is that 95% of our queries are selects.  If
-->your ratio is smaller, you will want to consider RAID 1 or 10.
Another
-->thing I recommend is to stay with the big players (IBM,HP) and stay
away
-->from Dell which is cut rate.  If you want to save money, get a white
box
-->over dell.  Also, we get it from a good salesman at cdw.  His address
is
-->[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Since they are in Chicago, there is no sales tax.
-->Lastly, if you're looking to buy soon, HP small-business direct
-->(www.smb.compaq.com) is offering free shipping until June 30 (but
then
-->you have to pay tax - basically the same amount).
-->
-->
-->> -Original Message-
-->> From: Bernd Jagla [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-->> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 1:15 PM
-->> To: mysql
-->> Subject: RAID hardware suggestions/experience
-->>
-->>
-->> Sorry I forgot to mention:
-->>
-->> We are using IRIS on an Origion2000, 7GB memory, 8 CPUs. I
-->> was thinking of
-->> spending up to $10K.
-->> I also wanted the redundant data for speeding up the seeks, I
-->> also need to
-->> speed up the writes.
-->>
-->> Bernd
-->>
-->>
-->>
-->>
=
-->>
-->>  Please note that this e-mail and any files transmitted
-->> with it may be
-->>  privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure under
-->>  applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the
-->> intended
-->>  recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for
-->> delivering this
-->>  message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
-->> notified that any
-->>  reading, dissemination, distribution, copying, or other
-->> use of this
-->>  communication or any of its attachments is strictly
-->> prohibited.  If
-->>  you have received this communication in error, please notify
the
-->>  sender immediately by replying to this message and deleting
this
-->>  message, any attachments, and all copies and backups from your
-->>  computer.
-->>
-->>
-->
-->
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RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Steven Roussey]

> What sort of throughput are you seeing in that setup?

God, I can't remember anymore. I can run a test again though. If you
have one you want me to run, just send it. We don't have other people's
money to spend, so all our disks are U160 18GB 15K IBM. They were less
than $100 each when we got them. They work great!

We only care about throughput when we do a clean backup. Application
performance is our measuring stick. Nothing like an FTS query on a big
ass table to do a test of both simultaneously.

At any rate, one server is just a replication failover. I can shut it
down for a little while and do another test. Then I can post back to the
list.

-steve-



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Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Jeremy Zawodny]

On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 09:37:24AM -0700, Steven Roussey wrote:
>
> Don't stripe too many. More sets to stripe increase performance, but
> syncing the rotations of many drives degrades performance. So there
> are diminishing returns. For our calculations, 3-4 mirrors were
> sufficient.  Most of our RAID sets are six drives (3 stripe of 2
> mirror). For one, we wanted more space and it has 8 drives
> (4x2). Don't forget to install spares at the same time. I like using
> external SCSI disk enclosures, so you can swap servers with less
> headache.

What sort of throughput are you seeing in that setup?
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RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Steven Roussey]

After testing a lot of different configurations (which was quite a
headache), I came up with the following. First of all, for both speed
and reliability, you will want SCSI. The list of reasons are quite long
for SCSI, and as you are doing research on the subject, it is an obvious
choice and I don't need to list them here. Get drives with 15K RPM,
since disk seek time is a killer in database applications. U160 or U320
SCSI 3. With lots of cache on the drive (should be standard). I've found
U160 to be sufficient, but U320 might be better for backups, etc. We do
have U320 controllers now, to be ready for the future. Next, I found
RAID 10 to be the best combination of redundancy and speed. It is not
cheaper though. I have not tested hardware RAID (which is a shame -- it
is a big hole in my experience), but use software RAID. Either way,
position all the sets of mirrors such that each mirror set (2 drives)
are on separate channels. This way, if your SCSI controller (or RAID
controller) has a channel die, the whole array can still function (even
with half of the drives down). Then stripe your (3-4) mirrors. Don't
stripe too many. More sets to stripe increase performance, but syncing
the rotations of many drives degrades performance. So there are
diminishing returns. For our calculations, 3-4 mirrors were sufficient.
Most of our RAID sets are six drives (3 stripe of 2 mirror). For one, we
wanted more space and it has 8 drives (4x2). Don't forget to install
spares at the same time. I like using external SCSI disk enclosures, so
you can swap servers with less headache.

-steve-


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RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Alec . Cawley]

> RE: SCSI needed for best performance -
> While this is true in some cases, if you are using striping or any
> RAID level (RAID 5 for example) that splits reads and writes across
> drives, then there will be several IDE channels feeding data to the
> RAID card at a time. Two ATA100 IDE channels will accept and provide
> data faster than the PCI bus that the card is plugged into can. The
> result is that you can use cheap IDE drives and get the same
> performance as the very fastest SCSI drives.

I don't think this is generally true. For database-type applications,
even with multiple drives, throughput is usually limited by seeks
rather than data transfer rate. One of the capacity that Scsi drives
have that IDE drives don't is the ability to send multiple overlapping
transfers to the drive, which can then execute them out of order.
Firstly, it can do "escalator seeking" - sort into position on the disk
so as to minimise the number of end-to-end seeks. Secondly, it can trade
off short seeks against rotational latency, because it knows tha angular
position of the disk at any time. I found that the second feature alone
added about 25% to net performance.

  Alec






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RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Adam Nelson]

We recently bought a kick $%#%% machine for ~10k

HP DL380
2x2.8GHz Xeon
1GB RAM
5 15k scsi drives (2 RAID 1 for OS and logs/3 RAID 5 for data)
RedHat Linux Enterprise Edition 2.1


This machine easily handles 200 queries/sec and never gets a load
average above 1.5.  For your space requirements, you may need the HP
ML370 with 5 RAID 5 drives.  An important thing to remember is that the
raid card is very fast and the more drives (to a point) you put on it,
the better, so better to have 5 smaller drives than 3 bigger drives.
The reason we use raid 5 is that 95% of our queries are selects.  If
your ratio is smaller, you will want to consider RAID 1 or 10.  Another
thing I recommend is to stay with the big players (IBM,HP) and stay away
from Dell which is cut rate.  If you want to save money, get a white box
over dell.  Also, we get it from a good salesman at cdw.  His address is
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Since they are in Chicago, there is no sales tax.
Lastly, if you're looking to buy soon, HP small-business direct
(www.smb.compaq.com) is offering free shipping until June 30 (but then
you have to pay tax - basically the same amount).  


> -Original Message-
> From: Bernd Jagla [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 1:15 PM
> To: mysql
> Subject: RAID hardware suggestions/experience
> 
> 
> Sorry I forgot to mention:
> 
> We are using IRIS on an Origion2000, 7GB memory, 8 CPUs. I 
> was thinking of
> spending up to $10K.
> I also wanted the redundant data for speeding up the seeks, I 
> also need to
> speed up the writes.
> 
> Bernd
> 
>  
>  
> =
>  
>  Please note that this e-mail and any files transmitted 
> with it may be 
>  privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure under 
>  applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the 
> intended 
>  recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for 
> delivering this 
>  message to the intended recipient, you are hereby 
> notified that any 
>  reading, dissemination, distribution, copying, or other 
> use of this 
>  communication or any of its attachments is strictly 
> prohibited.  If 
>  you have received this communication in error, please notify the 
>  sender immediately by replying to this message and deleting this 
>  message, any attachments, and all copies and backups from your 
>  computer.
> 
> 


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RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Mike Hillyer]

To me the question of reliability is that of the drive, not the
interface. I cannot see SATA itself being any more or less reliable than
ATA drives. I think certain controllers will accept a new drive that has
similar characteristics as long as the replacement drive is larger than
the lost drive.

I think the low capacity is a recognition that more performance for the
price is more desirable than more capacity with the target market of
this drive. After all, you don't see many 180GB SCSI drives, performance
is more a concern than capacity (you can get the capacity from RAID
anyway.

Regards,
Mike Hillyer
www.vbmysql.com



> A significant question remains for SATA: basic drive 
> reliability.  Related
> to that is length of time drive will remain available.  A 
> dirty secret of
> RAID is that when a drive goes it must be replaced you must replace it
> with the same drive (please..please tell me I'm wrong).  So, 
> unless you
> have a spare in the back you will end up replacing 3 drives 
> (assuming Raid
> 5).  That may be why the WD model has such low capacity 
> compared with the
> normal IDE drives.
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth.
> 
> William R. Mussatto, Senior Systems Engineer
> Ph. 909-920-9154 ext. 27
> FAX. 909-608-7061
> 
> 
> 
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> 

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RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Christopher Knight]

Optimally, Yes, you should replace with exact same brand/model etc...
but you CAN replace with a different brand/ model drive of the same
amount of disk space or more.  It isn't recomended (because of 
different seek times, cache .. etc..) but if you are carefull and do
your research, you can get away with it w/o any adverse effects.

-Original Message-
From: William R. Mussatto [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 12:33 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience


> I have heard good thing about 3Ware, but I would suggest looking at the
> 8500-4 in combination with Western Digital's Raptor drive
> (http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20030501/index.html). The Raptor is
> a 10,000 RPM SATA drive  which, combined with the 8500-4 SATA Raid card
> should give excellent performance at a great price. I would also look at
> Opteron based servers if you are looking for performance for a good
> price.
>
> Regards,
> Mike Hillyer
> www.vbmysql.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: David Griffiths [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 10:59 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience
>
>
> Anyone had any experience with 3Ware 7500-4 IDE RAID or the Promise
> SX-6000
> IDE RAID cards? Specifically for Linux. Heard bad things about Promise,
> good
> about 3Ware.
>
> David
> - Original Message -
> From: "Patrick Shoaf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 9:40 AM
> Subject: Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience
>
>
>> I am using 4 120G IDE Drives with an Adaptec IDE RAID Controller on
> RedHat
>> Linux providing 240G of RAID 5 storage.  While not quite as fast as
> SCSI,
> I
>> have found this to work very well.  You should be able to pickup a
> nice
>> dual processor XENON 2.4Ghz system w/1G Ram and IDE RAID loaded with
> RedHat
>> Linux ES for around $4,000.
>>
>> At 12:25 PM 6/17/2003, you wrote:
>> >Hi there,
>> >
>> >Our databank with all tables and idices is about 130GB big. The
> biggest
>> >limitations we encounter are on the I/O side.
>> >Therefore we are willing to update our data storage system to a RAID
> system
>> >(RAID 0+1, RAID 5, or RAID 10).
>> >
>> >Has anyone experience with such RAID systems?
>> >What should we buy?
>> > >From whom should we buy (We are located in New York City)?
>> >Do you have any experience you want to share?
>> >
>> >Thank you very much for your help and support!
>> >
>> >Bernd
>>
>>
>> Patrick J. Shoaf, Systems Engineer
>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> Midmon Internet Services, LLC
>> 100 Third Street
>> Charleroi, PA 15022
>> http://www.midmon.com
>> Phone: 724-483-2400 ext. 105
>>   or888-638-6963
>> Fax:   724-489-4386
>>
A significant question remains for SATA: basic drive reliability.  Related
to that is length of time drive will remain available.  A dirty secret of
RAID is that when a drive goes it must be replaced you must replace it
with the same drive (please..please tell me I'm wrong).  So, unless you
have a spare in the back you will end up replacing 3 drives (assuming Raid
5).  That may be why the WD model has such low capacity compared with the
normal IDE drives.

Just my 2 cents worth.

William R. Mussatto, Senior Systems Engineer
Ph. 909-920-9154 ext. 27
FAX. 909-608-7061



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Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[David Griffiths]

Many IDE RAID cards have a setting called gigabyte-boundry. What this means
is that it rounds down the capacity of the drive to the next gigabyte. A
120.3 gig drive becomes a 120 gig drive. This means that if you replace the
drive with a different make/model (say a 120.5 gig drive, which will be
rounded down 120 gig). The drives must be exactly the the same size.

You need to turn that gigabyte boundry on unless you have a large stock of
the same make/model drives.

David
- Original Message -
From: "Christopher Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 10:41 AM
Subject: RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience


> Optimally, Yes, you should replace with exact same brand/model etc...
> but you CAN replace with a different brand/ model drive of the same
> amount of disk space or more.  It isn't recomended (because of
> different seek times, cache .. etc..) but if you are carefull and do
> your research, you can get away with it w/o any adverse effects.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: William R. Mussatto [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 12:33 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience
>
>
> > I have heard good thing about 3Ware, but I would suggest looking at the
> > 8500-4 in combination with Western Digital's Raptor drive
> > (http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20030501/index.html). The Raptor is
> > a 10,000 RPM SATA drive  which, combined with the 8500-4 SATA Raid card
> > should give excellent performance at a great price. I would also look at
> > Opteron based servers if you are looking for performance for a good
> > price.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mike Hillyer
> > www.vbmysql.com
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-----
> > From: David Griffiths [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 10:59 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience
> >
> >
> > Anyone had any experience with 3Ware 7500-4 IDE RAID or the Promise
> > SX-6000
> > IDE RAID cards? Specifically for Linux. Heard bad things about Promise,
> > good
> > about 3Ware.
> >
> > David
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Patrick Shoaf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 9:40 AM
> > Subject: Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience
> >
> >
> >> I am using 4 120G IDE Drives with an Adaptec IDE RAID Controller on
> > RedHat
> >> Linux providing 240G of RAID 5 storage.  While not quite as fast as
> > SCSI,
> > I
> >> have found this to work very well.  You should be able to pickup a
> > nice
> >> dual processor XENON 2.4Ghz system w/1G Ram and IDE RAID loaded with
> > RedHat
> >> Linux ES for around $4,000.
> >>
> >> At 12:25 PM 6/17/2003, you wrote:
> >> >Hi there,
> >> >
> >> >Our databank with all tables and idices is about 130GB big. The
> > biggest
> >> >limitations we encounter are on the I/O side.
> >> >Therefore we are willing to update our data storage system to a RAID
> > system
> >> >(RAID 0+1, RAID 5, or RAID 10).
> >> >
> >> >Has anyone experience with such RAID systems?
> >> >What should we buy?
> >> > >From whom should we buy (We are located in New York City)?
> >> >Do you have any experience you want to share?
> >> >
> >> >Thank you very much for your help and support!
> >> >
> >> >Bernd
> >>
> >>
> >> Patrick J. Shoaf, Systems Engineer
> >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> Midmon Internet Services, LLC
> >> 100 Third Street
> >> Charleroi, PA 15022
> >> http://www.midmon.com
> >> Phone: 724-483-2400 ext. 105
> >>   or888-638-6963
> >> Fax:   724-489-4386
> >>
> A significant question remains for SATA: basic drive reliability.  Related
> to that is length of time drive will remain available.  A dirty secret of
> RAID is that when a drive goes it must be replaced you must replace it
> with the same drive (please..please tell me I'm wrong).  So, unless you
> have a spare in the back you will end up replacing 3 drives (assuming Raid
> 5).  That may be why the WD model has such low capacity compared with the
> normal IDE drives.
>
> Just my 2 cents worth.
>
> William R. Mussatto, Senior Systems Engineer
> Ph. 909-920-9154 ext. 27
> FAX. 909-608-7061
>
>
>
> --
> MySQL General Mailing List
> For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
> To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> --
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>

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Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Gabriel Guzman]

On Tue, 2003-06-17 at 09:58, David Griffiths wrote:
> Anyone had any experience with 3Ware 7500-4 IDE RAID or the Promise SX-6000
> IDE RAID cards? Specifically for Linux. Heard bad things about Promise, good
> about 3Ware.


If I had to choose between the two, I would go with the 3wares.  They
work very well under linux.  I've used their 6xxx series 4 port
controllers and their 7xxx series 8 port controllers.  Pretty happy with
both for inexpensive IDE RAID on linux.  Make sure you install the linux
drivers and software so you can access the 3ware functionality like
rebuilding your arrays without having to enter the cards BIOS at boot. 
They're no SCSI RAID controllers, but they get the job done.  The
promise controllers are crap (IMO) but they have come a long way in the
last couple of years... they are cheap though. 

gabe. 




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RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[William R. Mussatto]

> I have heard good thing about 3Ware, but I would suggest looking at the
> 8500-4 in combination with Western Digital's Raptor drive
> (http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20030501/index.html). The Raptor is
> a 10,000 RPM SATA drive  which, combined with the 8500-4 SATA Raid card
> should give excellent performance at a great price. I would also look at
> Opteron based servers if you are looking for performance for a good
> price.
>
> Regards,
> Mike Hillyer
> www.vbmysql.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: David Griffiths [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 10:59 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience
>
>
> Anyone had any experience with 3Ware 7500-4 IDE RAID or the Promise
> SX-6000
> IDE RAID cards? Specifically for Linux. Heard bad things about Promise,
> good
> about 3Ware.
>
> David
> - Original Message -
> From: "Patrick Shoaf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 9:40 AM
> Subject: Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience
>
>
>> I am using 4 120G IDE Drives with an Adaptec IDE RAID Controller on
> RedHat
>> Linux providing 240G of RAID 5 storage.  While not quite as fast as
> SCSI,
> I
>> have found this to work very well.  You should be able to pickup a
> nice
>> dual processor XENON 2.4Ghz system w/1G Ram and IDE RAID loaded with
> RedHat
>> Linux ES for around $4,000.
>>
>> At 12:25 PM 6/17/2003, you wrote:
>> >Hi there,
>> >
>> >Our databank with all tables and idices is about 130GB big. The
> biggest
>> >limitations we encounter are on the I/O side.
>> >Therefore we are willing to update our data storage system to a RAID
> system
>> >(RAID 0+1, RAID 5, or RAID 10).
>> >
>> >Has anyone experience with such RAID systems?
>> >What should we buy?
>> > >From whom should we buy (We are located in New York City)?
>> >Do you have any experience you want to share?
>> >
>> >Thank you very much for your help and support!
>> >
>> >Bernd
>>
>>
>> Patrick J. Shoaf, Systems Engineer
>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> Midmon Internet Services, LLC
>> 100 Third Street
>> Charleroi, PA 15022
>> http://www.midmon.com
>> Phone: 724-483-2400 ext. 105
>>   or888-638-6963
>> Fax:   724-489-4386
>>
A significant question remains for SATA: basic drive reliability.  Related
to that is length of time drive will remain available.  A dirty secret of
RAID is that when a drive goes it must be replaced you must replace it
with the same drive (please..please tell me I'm wrong).  So, unless you
have a spare in the back you will end up replacing 3 drives (assuming Raid
5).  That may be why the WD model has such low capacity compared with the
normal IDE drives.

Just my 2 cents worth.

William R. Mussatto, Senior Systems Engineer
Ph. 909-920-9154 ext. 27
FAX. 909-608-7061



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RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Quinlan, Grant]

RE: SCSI needed for best performance -
While this is true in some cases, if you are using striping or any
RAID level (RAID 5 for example) that splits reads and writes across
drives, then there will be several IDE channels feeding data to the
RAID card at a time. Two ATA100 IDE channels will accept and provide 
data faster than the PCI bus that the card is plugged into can. The
result is that you can use cheap IDE drives and get the same 
performance as the very fastest SCSI drives. 
Of course if you are running on some of the high-end server platforms 
from IBM, SUN, or HP then there will not be a PCI bus in the loop, 
and if you can afford such a server then the cost of getting the 
fastest SCSI drives and custom RAID hardware will not be an issue.

If you are looking at this type of high-end storage and want to save
some money you should check out the fiber-channel RAID solutions from
Adjile Systems <http://www.adjile.com> as part of you comparisons.

For the best price/performance/reliability for my i686 Linux system
(on a HP NetServer E60 Dual Pentium II box) I went with High Point 
Technologies Rocket RAID 404 card and Western Digital 180 GB drives. The 
documentation for setting up the card for Windows and Linux Lilo booting 
was complete, but seriously lacking for Linux GRUB boots. I worked out 
the GRUB issues with help from the suse-linux-e group at 
<http://lists.suse.com> last January and February. The setup was easy 
once I learned what to do.

   Best of Luck,
  Grant Q

-Original Message-
From: Gabriel Guzman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 10:06 AM
To: Bernd Jagla
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mysql
Subject: Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience


Bernd, 

here is a good resource on the different types of RAIDs (0, 1, 10, 0+1
etc) http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00.html  For high I/O, get a hardware
RAID controller, several SCSI disks with 15,000 RPM and as much CACHE as
you can afford and do RAID1.  Better make sure you have a good backup
plan though cause if one disk fails, you loose everything.  

RAID 10 or 0+1 might be a good compromise between data integrity and I/O
performance.  But for sheer speed, you will definitely want to go SCSI
if you can afford it. 


RAID 5 will take a performance hit, especially on writing, I wouldn't
reccomend it for what you are doing, definitely not if you will be using
IDE drives... SLOW.  


Another idea would be to go with a disk array from a 3rd party vendor
that you could attach to you DB box.  Might be worth looking into at
least. 

I've setup and maintained up to 1.5TB disk arrays in RAID 5
implementations (IDE and SCSI) and ide is definitely a slow solution for
RAID5... good for backups, but not for I/O intensive applications. 

gabe. 


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RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Mike Hillyer]

I have heard good thing about 3Ware, but I would suggest looking at the
8500-4 in combination with Western Digital's Raptor drive
(http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20030501/index.html). The Raptor is
a 10,000 RPM SATA drive  which, combined with the 8500-4 SATA Raid card
should give excellent performance at a great price. I would also look at
Opteron based servers if you are looking for performance for a good
price.

Regards,
Mike Hillyer
www.vbmysql.com


-Original Message-
From: David Griffiths [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 10:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience


Anyone had any experience with 3Ware 7500-4 IDE RAID or the Promise
SX-6000
IDE RAID cards? Specifically for Linux. Heard bad things about Promise,
good
about 3Ware.

David
- Original Message -
From: "Patrick Shoaf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience


> I am using 4 120G IDE Drives with an Adaptec IDE RAID Controller on
RedHat
> Linux providing 240G of RAID 5 storage.  While not quite as fast as
SCSI,
I
> have found this to work very well.  You should be able to pickup a
nice
> dual processor XENON 2.4Ghz system w/1G Ram and IDE RAID loaded with
RedHat
> Linux ES for around $4,000.
>
> At 12:25 PM 6/17/2003, you wrote:
> >Hi there,
> >
> >Our databank with all tables and idices is about 130GB big. The
biggest
> >limitations we encounter are on the I/O side.
> >Therefore we are willing to update our data storage system to a RAID
system
> >(RAID 0+1, RAID 5, or RAID 10).
> >
> >Has anyone experience with such RAID systems?
> >What should we buy?
> > >From whom should we buy (We are located in New York City)?
> >Do you have any experience you want to share?
> >
> >Thank you very much for your help and support!
> >
> >Bernd
>
>
> Patrick J. Shoaf, Systems Engineer
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Midmon Internet Services, LLC
> 100 Third Street
> Charleroi, PA 15022
> http://www.midmon.com
> Phone: 724-483-2400 ext. 105
>   or888-638-6963
> Fax:   724-489-4386
>
>
>
> --
> MySQL General Mailing List
> For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
> To unsubscribe:
http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Christopher Knight]

Im using a 3ware (which has great linux support) Escalade 7800 with 8
120GB/8MB cache ide drives in RAID 10 under Debian with 2.4.20 kernel.

I guess what we need to know is what platform and how much $$ you wanna
spend

-Original Message-
From: Bernd Jagla [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 11:26 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mysql
Subject: RAID hardware suggestions/experience


Hi there,

Our databank with all tables and idices is about 130GB big. The biggest
limitations we encounter are on the I/O side.
Therefore we are willing to update our data storage system to a RAID system
(RAID 0+1, RAID 5, or RAID 10).

Has anyone experience with such RAID systems?
What should we buy?
>From whom should we buy (We are located in New York City)?
Do you have any experience you want to share?

Thank you very much for your help and support!

Bernd




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RE: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Kerry Colligan]

Tried a Promise FastTrak 100 TX2 in a Dell; RH 7.3. Miserable. Bailed on it
after one month.

Kerry

-Original Message-
From: David Griffiths [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 12:59 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience


Anyone had any experience with 3Ware 7500-4 IDE RAID or the Promise SX-6000
IDE RAID cards? Specifically for Linux. Heard bad things about Promise, good
about 3Ware.

David
- Original Message -
From: "Patrick Shoaf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience


> I am using 4 120G IDE Drives with an Adaptec IDE RAID Controller on RedHat
> Linux providing 240G of RAID 5 storage.  While not quite as fast as SCSI,
I
> have found this to work very well.  You should be able to pickup a nice
> dual processor XENON 2.4Ghz system w/1G Ram and IDE RAID loaded with
RedHat
> Linux ES for around $4,000.
>
> At 12:25 PM 6/17/2003, you wrote:
> >Hi there,
> >
> >Our databank with all tables and idices is about 130GB big. The biggest
> >limitations we encounter are on the I/O side.
> >Therefore we are willing to update our data storage system to a RAID
system
> >(RAID 0+1, RAID 5, or RAID 10).
> >
> >Has anyone experience with such RAID systems?
> >What should we buy?
> > >From whom should we buy (We are located in New York City)?
> >Do you have any experience you want to share?
> >
> >Thank you very much for your help and support!
> >
> >Bernd
>
>
> Patrick J. Shoaf, Systems Engineer
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Midmon Internet Services, LLC
> 100 Third Street
> Charleroi, PA 15022
> http://www.midmon.com
> Phone: 724-483-2400 ext. 105
>   or888-638-6963
> Fax:   724-489-4386
>
>
>
> --
> MySQL General Mailing List
> For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
> To unsubscribe:http://lists.mysql.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[David Griffiths]

Anyone had any experience with 3Ware 7500-4 IDE RAID or the Promise SX-6000
IDE RAID cards? Specifically for Linux. Heard bad things about Promise, good
about 3Ware.

David
- Original Message -
From: "Patrick Shoaf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience


> I am using 4 120G IDE Drives with an Adaptec IDE RAID Controller on RedHat
> Linux providing 240G of RAID 5 storage.  While not quite as fast as SCSI,
I
> have found this to work very well.  You should be able to pickup a nice
> dual processor XENON 2.4Ghz system w/1G Ram and IDE RAID loaded with
RedHat
> Linux ES for around $4,000.
>
> At 12:25 PM 6/17/2003, you wrote:
> >Hi there,
> >
> >Our databank with all tables and idices is about 130GB big. The biggest
> >limitations we encounter are on the I/O side.
> >Therefore we are willing to update our data storage system to a RAID
system
> >(RAID 0+1, RAID 5, or RAID 10).
> >
> >Has anyone experience with such RAID systems?
> >What should we buy?
> > >From whom should we buy (We are located in New York City)?
> >Do you have any experience you want to share?
> >
> >Thank you very much for your help and support!
> >
> >Bernd
>
>
> Patrick J. Shoaf, Systems Engineer
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Midmon Internet Services, LLC
> 100 Third Street
> Charleroi, PA 15022
> http://www.midmon.com
> Phone: 724-483-2400 ext. 105
>   or888-638-6963
> Fax:   724-489-4386
>
>
>
> --
> MySQL General Mailing List
> For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
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Re: RAID hardware suggestions/experience

[Patrick Shoaf]

I am using 4 120G IDE Drives with an Adaptec IDE RAID Controller on RedHat 
Linux providing 240G of RAID 5 storage.  While not quite as fast as SCSI, I 
have found this to work very well.  You should be able to pickup a nice 
dual processor XENON 2.4Ghz system w/1G Ram and IDE RAID loaded with RedHat 
Linux ES for around $4,000.

At 12:25 PM 6/17/2003, you wrote:
Hi there,

Our databank with all tables and idices is about 130GB big. The biggest
limitations we encounter are on the I/O side.
Therefore we are willing to update our data storage system to a RAID system
(RAID 0+1, RAID 5, or RAID 10).
Has anyone experience with such RAID systems?
What should we buy?
>From whom should we buy (We are located in New York City)?
Do you have any experience you want to share?
Thank you very much for your help and support!

Bernd


Patrick J. Shoaf, Systems Engineer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Midmon Internet Services, LLC
100 Third Street
Charleroi, PA 15022
http://www.midmon.com
Phone: 724-483-2400 ext. 105
 or888-638-6963
Fax:   724-489-4386


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