Re: Tier 2 - Lease?
> (Disclaimer: we're neither a Tier 1 or 2. And most of the routes we receive > via > a regional provider that treats us *very* nicely - mostly because we have them > by the short-and-curlies. They piss us off too much, we turn off the phones > in > their NOC. ;) er... a typo? should be... "... we turn ON the phones in their NOC." --bill
Re: Tier 2 - Lease?
On Tue, 02 May 2006 22:38:22 PDT, Robert Sherrard said: > What make a provider a tier 2, versus a tier 1 provider... Usually it's defined as "Tier 1's don't buy transit, Tier 2's do". Of course, it gets a lot more complicated, because you can easily have a "Tier2" that's peering for 95% of its prefixes, and buying transit for 5% of not-often-used prefixes simply because it's expensive to get a peer for that 5%. But said Tier2 may be bigger than some "tier 1s", and be better on any *rational* comparison criteria (price, support, throughput, latency, jitter, downtime/SLA, path diversity, etc) If a company is "almost a Tier1", but buys transit for several hundred prefixes coming from Korea and Nigeria (say, 0.2% out of the 180K or whatever the routing table is this week), why do you *care*, unless you have (or *seriously* plan to have) lots of packets coming and going to those 2 countries? In general, the people who *really* care about Tier 1/2 already know if they are a 1 or a 2 themselves. Almost everybody else falls into 2 categories: 1) People who are using 1/2 as a shortcut for doing a *proper* analysis of the options. 2) People who feel a marketing need to say "we peer with X Tier-1s". (OK, where's my asbestos long-johns? ;) > Is it possible to determine who a tier 2 (i.e. Cogent) leases fiber from? Try asking? :) (And the answer will probably depend on which exact leg of their network you're asking about - it's almost certainly a patchwork) It probably doesn't matter unless you're trying to buy connectivity over diverse paths - in which case you're going to have to ask *both* providers what the exact fiber routing is. It's possible the tier2 and the tier1 are both leasing previously-dark fiber in the same conduit - but leasing it from 2 different companies. And of course, it's quite possible that *this* week, that tier 2 is routing your packets over fiber they own, and next week, some traffic engineering puts your packets on fiber leased from A - and last week, it was on fiber leased from B. (Disclaimer: we're neither a Tier 1 or 2. And most of the routes we receive via a regional provider that treats us *very* nicely - mostly because we have them by the short-and-curlies. They piss us off too much, we turn off the phones in their NOC. ;) pgpyJQhOQycIm.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Tier 2 - Lease?
Sorry... I should have clarified, I wasn't thinking it had anything to do w/ fiber or no fiber... that was just a secondary question. Rob Richard A Steenbergen wrote: On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 10:38:22PM -0700, Robert Sherrard wrote: What make a provider a tier 2, versus a tier 1 provider... Is it possible to determine who a tier 2 (i.e. Cogent) leases fiber from? It has absolutely nothing to do with fiber. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_carrier As of this exact moment that I'm posting, that article is actually reasonably accurate. Of course I'm sure in 5 minutes 100 people will be updating it to include their favorite not-really-a-tier-1 carrier. :)
Re: Tier 2 - Lease?
On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 10:38:22PM -0700, Robert Sherrard wrote: > > What make a provider a tier 2, versus a tier 1 provider... > > Is it possible to determine who a tier 2 (i.e. Cogent) leases fiber from? It has absolutely nothing to do with fiber. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_carrier As of this exact moment that I'm posting, that article is actually reasonably accurate. Of course I'm sure in 5 minutes 100 people will be updating it to include their favorite not-really-a-tier-1 carrier. :) -- Richard A Steenbergen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC)
Tier 2 - Lease?
What make a provider a tier 2, versus a tier 1 provider... Is it possible to determine who a tier 2 (i.e. Cogent) leases fiber from? Rob
Re: Multi ISP DDOS
At 10:11 PM 5/2/2006, Richard A Steenbergen wrote: On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 06:40:43PM -0700, Tim Pozar wrote: > UL is seeing a large DDOS coming towards a couple of customers of ours. > I know that other ISPs have been affected as well. I will let them > identify them selves. > > Anyone have any scoop on this? A) I don't think anyone knows who UL is by that reference alone (I assume you mean united layer). B) The DoS target is Livejournal. C) As an upstream of an upstream of LJ I'm barely seeing 150Mbps or so of it. No indications of exactly how big it is by the time it hits them, but at least from my perspective it doesn't seem like a huge attack. Hope it stops soon though, a sustained livejournal outage is probably grounds for at least 4-5 suicides by distraught teenagers who can't blog about their day. :) Add in the Blue Security DDOS. NSP-SEC must be busy defending DDoS'ers tonight keeping them from helping people defend LiveJournal. Uh. Who let the Frog out? http://www.wired.com/news/technology/internet/0,70798-0.html?tw=rss.technology -- Martin Hannigan(c) 617-388-2663 Renesys Corporation(w) 617-395-8574 Member of Technical Staff Network Operations [EMAIL PROTECTED]
BGP data needed
Hi all, I was wondering where I can find recent BGP data in the form of BGP updates+RIBs besides RouteViews and RIPE? Thanks, --Ricardo
Re: Multi ISP DDOS
Richard A Steenbergen wrote: > On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 06:40:43PM -0700, Tim Pozar wrote: > >>UL is seeing a large DDOS coming towards a couple of customers of ours. >> I know that other ISPs have been affected as well. I will let them >>identify them selves. >> >>Anyone have any scoop on this? > > > A) I don't think anyone knows who UL is by that reference alone (I assume >you mean united layer). > > B) The DoS target is Livejournal. > > C) As an upstream of an upstream of LJ I'm barely seeing 150Mbps or so of >it. No indications of exactly how big it is by the time it hits them, >but at least from my perspective it doesn't seem like a huge attack. > > Hope it stops soon though, a sustained livejournal outage is probably > grounds for at least 4-5 suicides by distraught teenagers who can't blog > about their day. :) > Ya... I have been chatting with the folks at SixApart about this. This is one of the folks attacked. It looks like there may have been others. Tim -- 1978 45th Ave / San Francisco CA 94116 / USA // POTS: +1 415 665 3790 GPG Fingerprint: 4821 CFDA 06E7 49F3 BF05 3F02 11E3 390F 8338 5B04 Life is playful - Ben Olizar begin:vcard fn:Tim Pozar n:Pozar;Tim org:UnitedLayer LLC adr:Suite 110;;200 Paul Avenue;San Francisco;CA;94124-3100;US email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:COO tel;work:415-349-2112 tel;home:415-665-3790 tel;cell:415-637-8512 note:"Be who you are and say what you feel because the people who mind don't matter and the people who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss url:http://www.unitedlayer.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: Multi ISP DDOS
On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 06:40:43PM -0700, Tim Pozar wrote: > UL is seeing a large DDOS coming towards a couple of customers of ours. > I know that other ISPs have been affected as well. I will let them > identify them selves. > > Anyone have any scoop on this? A) I don't think anyone knows who UL is by that reference alone (I assume you mean united layer). B) The DoS target is Livejournal. C) As an upstream of an upstream of LJ I'm barely seeing 150Mbps or so of it. No indications of exactly how big it is by the time it hits them, but at least from my perspective it doesn't seem like a huge attack. Hope it stops soon though, a sustained livejournal outage is probably grounds for at least 4-5 suicides by distraught teenagers who can't blog about their day. :) -- Richard A Steenbergen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC)
Multi ISP DDOS
UL is seeing a large DDOS coming towards a couple of customers of ours. I know that other ISPs have been affected as well. I will let them identify them selves. Anyone have any scoop on this? Tim -- 1978 45th Ave / San Francisco CA 94116 / USA // POTS: +1 415 665 3790 GPG Fingerprint: 4821 CFDA 06E7 49F3 BF05 3F02 11E3 390F 8338 5B04 Life is playful - Ben Olizar begin:vcard fn:Tim Pozar n:Pozar;Tim org:UnitedLayer LLC adr:Suite 110;;200 Paul Avenue;San Francisco;CA;94124-3100;US email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:COO tel;work:415-349-2112 tel;home:415-665-3790 tel;cell:415-637-8512 note:"Be who you are and say what you feel because the people who mind don't matter and the people who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss url:http://www.unitedlayer.com version:2.1 end:vcard
