RE: Question about SLAs
On February 9, 2007 at 08:32 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Fox,Thomas) wrote: All good stuff (you can find the note) but I'd like to point out: > 3. Pay all of your bill except for the disputed portion. Include with every > payment a "SLA CREDIT REQUEST" form that you complete, detailing > the reasons why you feel you are owed a credit, including the ticket > history, etc. Then, every month, include that documentation, and > copies of all other correspondence you've sent... until it is resolved. Read your contract carefully, it often disallows exactly this and allows them to apply payments as they see fit which means they can treat your account delinquent and proceed that way even if you believe you're due a credit. I also believe the law tends to agree with that, as a rule of thumb, you can't withhold a priori, except in specific cases like tenant law where an immediately dangerous condition persists due to landlord negligence, broken furnace in winter, etc. That is, it require more urgency than just "I think I'm due this". But, IANAL, and in practice it might of course force the issue since neither side is likely to sue anyhow unless a lot of money is involved. -- -Barry Shein The World | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD| Login: Nationwide Software Tool & Die| Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo*
Re: Question about SLAs
Steve Rubin wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does that mean you can take them to small claims court if they don't pay you the agreed SLA credits? --Michael Dillon Most contracts have an arbitration clause and in my experience small claims courts judges get confused by anything high-tech and will use the arbitration clause to get out of thinking about it. Don't blame small claims courts. Bigger courts have avoided executing their office around tech or big money issues, IME (in my experience). I've seen judges make wrong decisions because the burden on the defendant (would have had to post a bond to do the appeal) seemed "too great". $2,000, $200,000 or $20,000,000 -- if you are the one to get paid, you will usually be happier in a court that handles matters of that size regularly. DJ
RE: Question about SLAs
On February 9, 2007 at 09:41 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > An SLA is a contract. > > > > A contract is... a contract. > > Does that mean you can take them to small claims court if they don't pay > you the agreed SLA credits? Oh I'm certain you could if you wanted to be bothered, it's a contract with a promise of value like any other. Absolutely nothing unusual or even very difficult to understand unless it gets into a real technical pissing match that confuses the referee. But that's all a crap shoot at best and time-consuming. One reason to always avoid direct legal action is that even if you get what you're due it's exceedingly rare to be awarded legal or other expenses. Expect only the prima facie value. Despite common folklore it's just not done, that's the cost of not figuring out some other way to settle the matter as far as the court is concerned. In fact, at least here in MA, I don't believe a small claims court has any authority to award either legal fees (and even if you don't bring a lawyer it might be a good idea to rack up a coupla hours with your lawyer to make sure you're using the right lingo and statutes etc), or punitive damages tho they can award some direct costs like if you had to (reasonably) pay a moving company to move some object in question, something like that, and you'd better have a receipt and it better not be a "normal" expense (like don't bother asking for bus fare or gasoline for your car or phone calls or other incidentals.) I'd just say you want to go to legal means for things like this only as a very last resort and maybe not even then. What you want to do is figure out ways to raise the stakes in a way to make them into better people even if it goes entirely against their nature. -- -Barry Shein The World | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD| Login: Nationwide Software Tool & Die| Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo*
Re: Question about SLAs
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Does that mean you can take them to small claims court if they don't pay > you the agreed SLA credits? > > --Michael Dillon > Most contracts have an arbitration clause and in my experience small claims courts judges get confused by anything high-tech and will use the arbitration clause to get out of thinking about it.
Re: Question about SLAs
On Fri, Feb 09, 2007 at 08:32:10AM -0500, Fox,Thomas wrote: ... > 3. Pay all of your bill except for the disputed portion. ... ... Along with all that good advice, this particular one may bite you back. Consult legal experts in the field. -- Joe Yao --- This message is not an official statement of OSIS Center policies.
Weekly Routing Table Report
This is an automated weekly mailing describing the state of the Internet Routing Table as seen from APNIC's router in Japan. Daily listings are sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For historical data, please see http://thyme.apnic.net. If you have any comments please contact Philip Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. Routing Table Report 04:00 +10GMT Sat 10 Feb, 2007 Analysis Summary BGP routing table entries examined: 210553 Prefixes after maximum aggregation: 113369 Deaggregation factor: 1.86 Unique aggregates announced to Internet: 102510 Total ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 24297 Origin-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 21155 Origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 10225 Transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:3142 Transit-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 78 Average AS path length visible in the Internet Routing Table: 3.6 Max AS path length visible: 32 Max AS path prepend of ASN (20858) 18 Prefixes from unregistered ASNs in the Routing Table: 4 Unregistered ASNs in the Routing Table: 5 Special use prefixes present in the Routing Table:0 Prefixes being announced from unallocated address space: 13 Number of addresses announced to Internet: 1674787756 Equivalent to 99 /8s, 211 /16s and 59 /24s Percentage of available address space announced: 45.2 Percentage of allocated address space announced: 62.1 Percentage of available address space allocated: 72.8 Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 108001 APNIC Region Analysis Summary - Prefixes being announced by APNIC Region ASes:47410 Total APNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 18871 APNIC Deaggregation factor:2.51 Prefixes being announced from the APNIC address blocks: 44702 Unique aggregates announced from the APNIC address blocks:19589 APNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:2845 APNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix:788 APNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:425 Average APNIC Region AS path length visible:3.6 Max APNIC Region AS path length visible: 16 Number of APNIC addresses announced to Internet: 283353088 Equivalent to 16 /8s, 227 /16s and 160 /24s Percentage of available APNIC address space announced: 70.2 APNIC AS Blocks4608-4864, 7467-7722, 9216-10239, 17408-18431 (pre-ERX allocations) 23552-24575, 37888-38911 APNIC Address Blocks 58/7, 60/7, 116/6, 120/6, 124/7, 126/8, 202/7 210/7, 218/7, 220/7 and 222/8 ARIN Region Analysis Summary Prefixes being announced by ARIN Region ASes:103086 Total ARIN prefixes after maximum aggregation:61000 ARIN Deaggregation factor: 1.69 Prefixes being announced from the ARIN address blocks:75941 Unique aggregates announced from the ARIN address blocks: 29279 ARIN Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:11320 ARIN Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix:4334 ARIN Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:1049 Average ARIN Region AS path length visible: 3.4 Max ARIN Region AS path length visible: 21 Number of ARIN addresses announced to Internet: 317024640 Equivalent to 18 /8s, 229 /16s and 105 /24s Percentage of available ARIN address space announced: 70.0 ARIN AS Blocks 1-1876, 1902-2042, 2044-2046, 2048-2106 (pre-ERX allocations) 2138-2584, 2615-2772, 2823-2829, 2880-3153 3354-4607, 4865-5119, 5632-6655, 6912-7466 7723-8191, 10240-12287, 13312-15359, 16384-17407 18432-20479, 21504-23551, 25600-26591, 26624-27647, 29696-30719, 31744-33791 35840-36863, 39936-40959 ARIN Address Blocks24/8, 63/8, 64/5, 72/6, 76/8, 96/6, 199/8, 204/6, 208/7 and 216/8 RIPE Region Analysis Summary Prefixes being announced by RIPE Region ASes: 43629 Total RIPE prefixes after maximum aggregation:28493 RIPE Deaggregation factor: 1.53 Prefixes being announced from the
RE: Question about SLAs
The other nice thing about small claims is that the judgment is just as "real" and enforceable as those from the big boy courts. About 10 or so years ago, we got into a dispute with a carrier where we co-lo'd some equipment. Went to small claims court, got a judgment of a few thousand dollars, didn't get paid So we went down on a Friday afternoon to the co-lo (this was in Toledo, so there was some interim step we had to do to make the judgment enforceable across state lines, but I don't recall what the step was), let ourselves and the sheriff in with our access code, and started unhooking some Cisco gear that belonged to the carrier. We had a check in about 2 hours. :-) > And the nice thing about small claims court, if you meet the maximum > limit of course, is that large companies often are lazy about dealing > with the claims. If you are smaller than them, judges will often grant > you a judgment when the big company doesn't show. At that > point, with a > court judgment in hand, it is easier to get the carrier's attention. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
RE: Question about SLAs
> Absolutely, so long as the amount in controversy > doesn't exceed the small claims limit in your jurisdiction. > If it does, off to regular court. And the nice thing about small claims court, if you meet the maximum limit of course, is that large companies often are lazy about dealing with the claims. If you are smaller than them, judges will often grant you a judgement when the big company doesn't show. At that point, with a court judgement in hand, it is easier to get the carrier's attention. SLA disputes are usually handled in the sales department by people whose paycheck is at least partly determined by sales quotas. Paying you the SLA hurts their paycheck. But a court judgement is usually handled by the legal department whose paycheck is 100% salary plus bonus for performance, which in the case of a lawyer would have to do with settling cases so that they do minimum damage to the company. In the case of a small claims court judgement, it is cheaper for them to pay you than to dispute the judgement. Of course, if you understand the supplier's internal issues from the beginning, then you can usually escalate it to the right people to resolve the problem before it gets to court. For instance, sales management usually have the bonus/quota system rigged so that they can pay you your SLA but not get hurt in the paycheck. Don't bang your head against the wall. If the supplier doesn't deal with issues promptly, work your way through different people in the organization until you find someone who can act to fix the problem. --Michael Dillon
RE: Question about SLAs
Absolutely, so long as the amount in controversy doesn't exceed the small claims limit in your jurisdiction. If it does, off to regular court. > > An SLA is a contract. > > > > A contract is... a contract. > > Does that mean you can take them to small claims court if > they don't pay > you the agreed SLA credits? > > --Michael Dillon --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
RE: Question about SLAs
I have a couple of suggestions: 1. Document, document, document. We use our internal ticketing system to document carrier issues, and actually have a "customer" created for each of our circuits, so that the history is readily available on a circuit-by-circuit basis. 2. Call trouble tickets in for everything, and record the ticket numbers. Follow up, get names, etc. All the stuff we know we should do, but often times forget to do in the heat of the moment. 3. Pay all of your bill except for the disputed portion. Include with every payment a "SLA CREDIT REQUEST" form that you complete, detailing the reasons why you feel you are owed a credit, including the ticket history, etc. Then, every month, include that documentation, and copies of all other correspondence you've sent... until it is resolved. 4. Don't hesitate to escalate your issues up the chain. A simple: "I'm getting no where with you and need to speed to someone more senior" sometimes works. I've also used, with varying degrees of success, "Let's get someone higher up than you on the phone, because I doubt you're paid enough to deal with the crap I'm about to dish out." 5. If they're reasonably close (and this has worked wonders for me!), gather up all your documentation, and take a day trip to their office. It is pretty hard to ignore you when you're sitting in their lobby. 6. If all else fails, sue them. We did this very successfully against MCI, got a TRO, then an injunction, and finally reached a settlement that included the credits we were due as well as a cash payment because of our grief and aggravation. Best of luck, --tlf
The Cidr Report
This report has been generated at Fri Feb 9 21:47:33 2007 AEST.
The report analyses the BGP Routing Table of an AS4637 (Reach) router
and generates a report on aggregation potential within the table.
Check http://www.cidr-report.org/as4637 for a current version of this report.
Recent Table History
Date PrefixesCIDR Agg
02-02-07206731 134167
03-02-07206917 134181
04-02-07206803 134267
05-02-07206954 134215
06-02-07207104 134242
07-02-07206992 134456
08-02-07207251 134554
09-02-07207532 134589
AS Summary
24214 Number of ASes in routing system
10220 Number of ASes announcing only one prefix
1486 Largest number of prefixes announced by an AS
AS7018 : ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet Services
90748416 Largest address span announced by an AS (/32s)
AS721 : DISA-ASNBLK - DoD Network Information Center
Aggregation Summary
The algorithm used in this report proposes aggregation only
when there is a precise match using the AS path, so as
to preserve traffic transit policies. Aggregation is also
proposed across non-advertised address space ('holes').
--- 09Feb07 ---
ASnumNetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description
Table 207507 1346737283435.1% All ASes
AS4134 1249 308 94175.3% CHINANET-BACKBONE
No.31,Jin-rong Street
AS18566 988 49 93995.0% COVAD - Covad Communications
Co.
AS4755 1061 191 87082.0% VSNL-AS Videsh Sanchar Nigam
Ltd. Autonomous System
AS9498 943 178 76581.1% BBIL-AP BHARTI BT INTERNET
LTD.
AS4323 1107 346 76168.7% TWTC - Time Warner Telecom,
Inc.
AS22773 722 47 67593.5% CCINET-2 - Cox Communications
Inc.
AS11492 937 337 60064.0% CABLEONE - CABLE ONE
AS17488 593 52 54191.2% HATHWAY-NET-AP Hathway IP Over
Cable Internet
AS8151 989 454 53554.1% Uninet S.A. de C.V.
AS19262 712 180 53274.7% VZGNI-TRANSIT - Verizon
Internet Services Inc.
AS6197 1026 512 51450.1% BATI-ATL - BellSouth Network
Solutions, Inc
AS7018 1486 976 51034.3% ATT-INTERNET4 - AT&T WorldNet
Services
AS19916 568 71 49787.5% ASTRUM-0001 - OLM LLC
AS18101 520 33 48793.7% RIL-IDC Reliance Infocom Ltd
Internet Data Centre,
AS17676 503 65 43887.1% JPNIC-JP-ASN-BLOCK Japan
Network Information Center
AS9583 1038 601 43742.1% SIFY-AS-IN Sify Limited
AS15270 502 86 41682.9% AS-PAETEC-NET - PaeTec.net -a
division of
PaeTecCommunications, Inc.
AS4766 728 318 41056.3% KIXS-AS-KR Korea Telecom
AS721681 295 38656.7% DISA-ASNBLK - DoD Network
Information Center
AS2386 1109 737 37233.5% INS-AS - AT&T Data
Communications Services
AS4812 433 71 36283.6% CHINANET-SH-AP China Telecom
(Group)
AS3602 529 190 33964.1% AS3602-RTI - Rogers Telecom
Inc.
AS16852 394 69 32582.5% BROADWING-FOCAL - Broadwing
Communications Services, Inc.
AS7011 785 474 31139.6% FRONTIER-AND-CITIZENS -
Frontier Communications, Inc.
AS6467 352 45 30787.2% ESPIRECOMM - Xspedius
Communications Co.
AS33588 432 127 30570.6% BRESNAN-AS - Bresnan
Communications, LLC.
AS6198 556 266 29052.2% BATI-MIA - BellSouth Network
Solutions, Inc
AS6517 402 118 28470.6% YIPESCOM - Yipes
Communications, Inc.
AS7029 508 226 28255.5%
BGP Update Report
BGP Update Report Interval: 26-Jan-07 -to- 08-Feb-07 (14 days) Observation Point: BGP Peering with AS4637 TOP 20 Unstable Origin AS Rank ASNUpds % Upds/PfxAS-Name 1 - AS701 35249 1.4% 36.3 -- UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business 2 - AS28751 28943 1.1% 120.1 -- CAUCASUS-NET-AS Caucasus Network Tbilisi, Georgia 3 - AS702 27116 1.1% 37.8 -- AS702 MCI EMEA - Commercial IP service provider in Europe 4 - AS815124366 0.9% 24.1 -- Uninet S.A. de C.V. 5 - AS17974 17707 0.7% 33.7 -- TELKOMNET-AS2-AP PT TELEKOMUNIKASI INDONESIA 6 - AS356116509 0.6% 33.8 -- SAVVIS - Savvis 7 - AS478815563 0.6% 8.4 -- TMNET-AS-AP TM Net, Internet Service Provider 8 - AS705 14460 0.6% 29.3 -- UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business 9 - AS11830 13316 0.5% 27.6 -- Instituto Costarricense de Electricidad y Telecom. 10 - AS958312377 0.5% 11.7 -- SIFY-AS-IN Sify Limited 11 - AS17488 12262 0.5% 20.4 -- HATHWAY-NET-AP Hathway IP Over Cable Internet 12 - AS619712009 0.5% 11.7 -- BATI-ATL - BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc 13 - AS432311878 0.5% 11.0 -- TWTC - Time Warner Telecom, Inc. 14 - AS30890 11812 0.5% 54.4 -- EVOLVA Evolva Telecom 15 - AS949811676 0.5% 12.3 -- BBIL-AP BHARTI BT INTERNET LTD. 16 - AS754511558 0.5% 20.9 -- TPG-INTERNET-AP TPG Internet Pty Ltd 17 - AS330111416 0.4% 37.1 -- TELIANET-SWEDEN TeliaNet Sweden 18 - AS11486 10609 0.4% 37.8 -- WAN - Worldcom Advance Networks 19 - AS462110476 0.4% 77.6 -- UNSPECIFIED UNINET-TH 20 - AS291410444 0.4% 45.8 -- NTT-COMMUNICATIONS-2914 - NTT America, Inc. TOP 20 Unstable Origin AS (Updates per announced prefix) Rank ASNUpds % Upds/PfxAS-Name 1 - AS315944356 0.2%4356.0 -- FORTESS-AS Fortess LLC Network 2 - AS157742837 0.1%2837.0 -- MEDIANAT LLC "MEDIANAT", ISP primarily for educational institution 3 - AS354892692 0.1%2692.0 -- TOTO-TECH-AS Toto Ltd. 4 - AS316248287 0.3%1657.4 -- VFMNL-AS Verza Facility Management BV 5 - AS381511605 0.1%1605.0 -- ENUM-AS-ID APJII-RD 6 - AS334471243 0.1%1243.0 -- RPTCO-ASN-1 - RPT Consulting, Inc. 7 - AS321311203 0.1%1203.0 -- AS-PCML - Penso Capital Markets, LLC 8 - AS274071024 0.0%1024.0 -- FRISCHS-INC - Frisch's Restaurants, Inc. 9 - AS27814 995 0.0% 995.0 -- Aeprovi 10 - AS34378 969 0.0% 969.0 -- RUG-AS Razguliay-UKRROS Group 11 - AS3727 944 0.0% 944.0 -- SHRUBB - Shrubbery Networks 12 - AS31307 908 0.0% 908.0 -- YKYATIRIM YAPI KREDI YATIRIM 13 - AS4587 2395 0.1% 798.3 -- ONEWORLD2 - One World Internetworking, Inc 14 - AS176457759 0.3% 775.9 -- NTT-SG-AP ASN - NTT SINGAPORE PTE LTD 15 - AS204263025 0.1% 756.2 -- PWC-AS - PriceWaterhouseCoopers, LLP 16 - AS29630 640 0.0% 640.0 -- AZRENA-AS Azerbaijan Research and Educational Networking 17 - AS200501223 0.1% 611.5 -- SPPINTERNET01 - Southwest Power Pool 18 - AS3043 3013 0.1% 602.6 -- AMPHIB-AS - Amphibian Media Corporation 19 - AS30355 595 0.0% 595.0 -- PATRIOT-COMMUNICATIONS - PATRIOT COMMUNICATIONS 20 - AS307071615 0.1% 538.3 -- SICOR-US-CA-IRVINE - SICOR Pharmaceuticals, Inc. TOP 20 Unstable Prefixes Rank Prefix Upds % Origin AS -- AS Name 1 - 194.242.124.0/22 4356 0.1% AS31594 -- FORTESS-AS Fortess LLC Network 2 - 89.4.128.0/24 3221 0.1% AS24731 -- ASN-NESMA National Engineering Services and Marketing Company Ltd. (NESMA) 3 - 216.32.206.0/243169 0.1% AS20473 -- AS-CHOOPA - Choopa, LLC 4 - 89.4.129.0/24 3111 0.1% AS24731 -- ASN-NESMA National Engineering Services and Marketing Company Ltd. (NESMA) 5 - 155.201.48.0/213010 0.1% AS20426 -- PWC-AS - PriceWaterhouseCoopers, LLP 6 - 209.140.24.0/242966 0.1% AS3043 -- AMPHIB-AS - Amphibian Media Corporation 7 - 62.68.143.0/24 2837 0.1% AS15774 -- MEDIANAT LLC "MEDIANAT", ISP primarily for educational institution 8 - 62.213.176.0/232692 0.1% AS35489 -- TOTO-TECH-AS Toto Ltd. 9 - 89.4.131.0/24 2685 0.1% AS24731 -- ASN-NESMA National Engineering Services and Marketing Company Ltd. (NESMA) 10 - 61.0.0.0/8 2220 0.1% AS4678 -- FINE CANON NETWORK COMMUNICATIONS INC. 11 - 83.223.32.0/23 1993 0.1% AS31624 -- VFMNL-AS Verza Facility Management BV 12 - 83.223.38.0/23 1993 0.1% AS31624 -- VFMNL-AS Verza Facility Management BV
RE: Question about SLAs
> An SLA is a contract. > > A contract is... a contract. Does that mean you can take them to small claims court if they don't pay you the agreed SLA credits? --Michael Dillon
