Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Mark Potochnik]

Hey, I represent that remark!! :-)

MarkP

>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> But people ARE going to download Mandrake (or use free" discs from
> magazines, etc.) and if they have trouble they will summarily dismiss
> Mandrake as being "no good" when a retail package might have or be just what
> they need.  You have to make the new version slick enough to protect people
> from their own ignorance (i.e. from themselves).
> -Gary Prichard-

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[GAPrichard]

But people ARE going to download Mandrake (or use free" discs from 
magazines, etc.) and if they have trouble they will summarily dismiss 
Mandrake as being "no good" when a retail package might have or be just what 
they need.  You have to make the new version slick enough to protect people 
from their own ignorance (i.e. from themselves).  
-Gary Prichard-

Re: Re[2]: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[michael]

On Tue, 30 May 2000, you wrote:
> Just out of curiosity - IDE or SCSI?  I don't remember seeing you specifing 
> anywhere (but I missed the begining of this thread).
> 
> > charles,
> > it's an oemmer for sure and when i called panasonic they said it was too
> > new for the drivers to be on their website. My source(computer123)
> > promised manual, cables Adaptec cd and a 10 pack of recordable media
> > which they provided with the exception of the manual. Windows won't
> > recognize it; Linux will, but only to read from...caveat emptor i
> > guess...
> > =michael=
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Ty C. Mixon
> F.T.C. Enterprises
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ICQ 26147713
-- PROBLEM SOLVED!thanks for replying!
 
-michael-

Re: [newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Dacia and AzureRose]

Absolutely Jim.  I entirely did away with my windows
partition after dual-booting for a few months.  A few
weeks ago I re-installed wandows on a small drive
because I realized that I missed Half-Life more then I
hate wandows.  Its sad I know.

I will be stuck with a perfunctory windows partition
until I either lose interest in games, wine works
perfectly for all programs or all my favorite programs
are ported to linux.  Yep, that 3 gig wandows
partition is going to be with me like a carbuncle for
the forseeable future.


Dacia
--- Jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The reward comes when you get it working!  I love
> the sense of
> accomplishment...the when you are using the programs
> and they don't crash, I
> sit here and smile all the time I am at the
> 'puterI am almost ready to
> completely un-install windoze and run a linux only
> box here!
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> I downloaded & installed mandrake 7.0 on the
> recommendation of a friend.  I had a little bit of
> experience working in a Unix environment (FreeBSD I
> believe) but that was the extent of my familiarity. 
> I
> spent about two weeks reading hardware lists and
> gathering information about IRQs, DMAs, Horizontal
> and
> Vertical refresh rates, etc etc.
> 
> The initial install went just fine.  The only things
> that didn't work right were my cdburner and I
> couldn't
> change any of my desktop settings in KDE (just
> learned
> why today from someones post to this list.).  That
> didn't bother me particularly.
> 
> Boy I was overwhelmed the first time I sat looking
> at
> a KDE desktop wanting to listen to a cd and read my
> email.  It was at that point that I really began to
> realize how much I took wandows for granted.
> 
> Anyway, theres my .02 on that subject.  Newbies
> aren't
> necessarily stupid nor uninformed, just lacking in
> experience with this specific OS.
> 
> 
> Dacia
> 
> 
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > In a message dated 5/27/00 9:54:47 PM Mountain
> > Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > writes:
> >
> > > P.S. IMHO any newbie who downloads their first
> > install of
> > >  Linux instead of buying a documented package is
> > truly nuts,
> >
> > <--- is truely nuts then..DLed my
> > first (RH 5.1)managed
> > to install it and fumble around, then I got smart
> > and bought Linux
> > Unleased...so I could absorb clues in a faster
> > fashion
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com/
> 
> 
> 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/

Re[2]: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[tymanthius]

Just out of curiosity - IDE or SCSI?  I don't remember seeing you specifing 
anywhere (but I missed the begining of this thread).

> charles,
> it's an oemmer for sure and when i called panasonic they said it was too
> new for the drivers to be on their website. My source(computer123)
> promised manual, cables Adaptec cd and a 10 pack of recordable media
> which they provided with the exception of the manual. Windows won't
> recognize it; Linux will, but only to read from...caveat emptor i
> guess...
> =michael=
> 
> 


Ty C. Mixon
F.T.C. Enterprises
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ 26147713

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Alan Shoemaker]

AnthonyI'll bet you weren't really a total newbie 5 months
ago.  I was using the term newbie to refer to folks who have
only used a Windows machine or a Mac previously. :-)

Alan


Anthony Huereca wrote:
> 
> >
> > P.S. IMHO any newbie who downloads their first install of
> > Linux instead of buying a documented package is truly nuts,
> > and is asking for big problems, but this has nothing to do
> > with the particular disto or version as it applies to them
> > all.
> 
> Heh, then I guess I'm certifiably nuts : ) I debated between gettting the
> packaged version or just a plain CD, and I went with the plain CD. I just got
> through by reading a whole whole lot (most of the manual is online, and I
> bought a small Linux book along with the CD), and reinstalling a whole lot after
> I'd screw up. But I did eventually get it right, and I've been running this same
> "version" for about 5 months now. It was definitly a learning experiance, and
> if I had to do it all over again, I'd probally still pick the CD since I've
> probally learned a lot more than I would have if I stuck with the packaged
> version.
> 
>  --
> Anthony Huereca
> http://m3000.1wh.com
> Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Eunice Thompson]

Anthony Huereca wrote:
> 
> >
> > P.S. IMHO any newbie who downloads their first install of
> > Linux instead of buying a documented package is truly nuts,
> > and is asking for big problems, but this has nothing to do
> > with the particular disto or version as it applies to them
> > all.
> 
> Heh, then I guess I'm certifiably nuts : ) I debated between gettting the
> packaged version or just a plain CD, and I went with the plain CD. I just got
> through by reading a whole whole lot (most of the manual is online, and I
> bought a small Linux book along with the CD), and reinstalling a whole lot after
> I'd screw up. But I did eventually get it right, and I've been running this same
> "version" for about 5 months now. It was definitly a learning experiance, and
> if I had to do it all over again, I'd probally still pick the CD since I've
> probally learned a lot more than I would have if I stuck with the packaged
> version.
> 
>  --
> Anthony Huereca
> http://m3000.1wh.com
> Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.
I  have to say that I'm in the same boat with Anthony.
I was introduced to Linux in February of this year (2000) in a
networking class I took at the local Community College. The instructor
gave a demo of a Red Hat install; some how I convinced him to let me
make copies (at home of course -:)). I proceeded to install Red Hat 6.1
that night on my computer at home. BOY was I frustrated, couldn't even
get my modem to work, so I rebooted into Win98, searched the web for
anything and everything to do with Linux; I came across Linux Care or
one of those sites that had links to all the distributions, and I just
went through each and everyone until I came to Mandrake's page.
 I was so impressed with the demos of the installer that I started
downloading the iso of 7.0 immediately. At the time I had a 56K modem
and it took me about 44 hours to download the complete image.  Then
things really started getting interesting!
 I must have installed that thing about 15 times before I got
everything  working-- one night I installed, reformatted, reinstalled
about 5 times (basically , I couldn't get my IDE cd-burner to work when
everything else worked or vice versa). I know, I know all I had to do
was recompile the kernel after about the second install and then
everything would have been fine, but just those words 'compile the
kernel' scared the beejeezus out of me. Needless to say that in the end,
I recompiled the kernel got everything working and not only am I
extremely satisfied with Mandrake , I've basically installed the beta
versions of the upcoming release, not only on my desktop but also on an
older laptop that I came across.I confess that if it wasn't for my
stubbornness (make that tenacity) I would still be using Windows.
 
Eunice Thompson

Re: [newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Jim]

The reward comes when you get it working!  I love the sense of
accomplishment...the when you are using the programs and they don't crash, I
sit here and smile all the time I am at the 'puterI am almost ready to
completely un-install windoze and run a linux only box here!

Jim


I downloaded & installed mandrake 7.0 on the
recommendation of a friend.  I had a little bit of
experience working in a Unix environment (FreeBSD I
believe) but that was the extent of my familiarity.  I
spent about two weeks reading hardware lists and
gathering information about IRQs, DMAs, Horizontal and
Vertical refresh rates, etc etc.

The initial install went just fine.  The only things
that didn't work right were my cdburner and I couldn't
change any of my desktop settings in KDE (just learned
why today from someones post to this list.).  That
didn't bother me particularly.

Boy I was overwhelmed the first time I sat looking at
a KDE desktop wanting to listen to a cd and read my
email.  It was at that point that I really began to
realize how much I took wandows for granted.

Anyway, theres my .02 on that subject.  Newbies aren't
necessarily stupid nor uninformed, just lacking in
experience with this specific OS.


Dacia


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In a message dated 5/27/00 9:54:47 PM Mountain
> Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>
> > P.S. IMHO any newbie who downloads their first
> install of
> >  Linux instead of buying a documented package is
> truly nuts,
>
> <--- is truely nuts then..DLed my
> first (RH 5.1)managed
> to install it and fumble around, then I got smart
> and bought Linux
> Unleased...so I could absorb clues in a faster
> fashion
>
> Jerry
>


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Michael]

charles,
it's an oemmer for sure and when i called panasonic they said it was too
new for the drivers to be on their website. My source(computer123)
promised manual, cables Adaptec cd and a 10 pack of recordable media
which they provided with the exception of the manual. Windows won't
recognize it; Linux will, but only to read from...caveat emptor i
guess...
=michael=

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Anthony Huereca]

Yep, a definite clone. It used to be called X11Amp (play off of *Win*Amp) but
they changed the name for some reason. 

> Isn't XMMS a Winamp clone. I have it in 7.o (air)
> ie. not unique to 7.1.
> =michael=
-- 
Anthony Huereca
http://m3000.1wh.com
Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. 

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Anthony Huereca]

> 
> P.S. IMHO any newbie who downloads their first install of
> Linux instead of buying a documented package is truly nuts,
> and is asking for big problems, but this has nothing to do
> with the particular disto or version as it applies to them
> all.


Heh, then I guess I'm certifiably nuts : ) I debated between gettting the
packaged version or just a plain CD, and I went with the plain CD. I just got
through by reading a whole whole lot (most of the manual is online, and I
bought a small Linux book along with the CD), and reinstalling a whole lot after
I'd screw up. But I did eventually get it right, and I've been running this same
"version" for about 5 months now. It was definitly a learning experiance, and
if I had to do it all over again, I'd probally still pick the CD since I've
probally learned a lot more than I would have if I stuck with the packaged
version.

 -- 
Anthony Huereca
http://m3000.1wh.com
Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. 

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[dale kosan]

No,it is a Panasonic,sort off.They are made by a company called Plasmon.The 
drive he has is a Panasonic,I know,I work for a mass storage distributor and 
we do sell that model.



>From: "Charles A Edwards" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1
>Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 09:52:09 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from [216.71.84.35] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id 
>MHotMailBAFAF7C30022D82197ACD847542330E00; Sun May 28 16:33:23 2000
>Received: (from sympa@localhost)by mandrakesoft.mandrakesoft.com 
>(8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA26803for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sun, 28 May 2000 
>16:05:56 -0500
>Received: from mail1.bna.bellsouth.net (mail1.bna.bellsouth.net
>[205.152.150.13]) by mandrakesoft.mandrakesoft.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with
>ESMTP id GAA32707 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 28 May 2000
>06:27:17 -0500
>Received: from quantex (adsl-61-129-105.clt.bellsouth.net
>[208.61.129.105]) by mail1.bna.bellsouth.net (3.3.5alt/0.75.2) with SMTP
>id JAA29105 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 28 May 2000 09:53:23
>-0400 (EDT)
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun May 28 16:33:27 2000
>Message-Id: <000f01bfc8ab$f344d300$37e0fea9@quantex>
>References: <006201bfc72c$3929ea80$37e0fea9@quantex>
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
><006d01bfc7e4$db4a1700$37e0fea9@quantex>
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>X-Priority: 3
>X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
>X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
>X-Loop: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>X-Sequence: 961
>Precedence: list
>
>Micheal
>Is this an OEM product or did you buy it retail. The reason I ask is 
>that
>the only CD-RW drive listed at Panosonics Web is a PCMCIA drive. All their
>other recordable drives are DVD-RAM. There is no listing at all for 7585
>drive but they do list a 24 speed CR-585 CD-ROM drive. This could be why
>neither Linux or Windows
>recognizes it as a CD-RW because it is not.
>
>Charles
>
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 10:28 PM
>Subject: Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1
>
>
> > Charles-
> > I have a cd rw but it's just an expensive 24 spin cd rom as far as i ,
> > idiot that i am, can use it. It's a panasonic 7585 and although i
> > followed the instructions
> > in the muo howto, i still am only able to read fron it but hey, my
> > windows 98 wont even recognize it!
> >
> > =michael=
> >
> >
>


Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Dacia and AzureRose]

I downloaded & installed mandrake 7.0 on the
recommendation of a friend.  I had a little bit of
experience working in a Unix environment (FreeBSD I
believe) but that was the extent of my familiarity.  I
spent about two weeks reading hardware lists and
gathering information about IRQs, DMAs, Horizontal and
Vertical refresh rates, etc etc.

The initial install went just fine.  The only things
that didn't work right were my cdburner and I couldn't
change any of my desktop settings in KDE (just learned
why today from someones post to this list.).  That
didn't bother me particularly.

Boy I was overwhelmed the first time I sat looking at
a KDE desktop wanting to listen to a cd and read my
email.  It was at that point that I really began to
realize how much I took wandows for granted.

Anyway, theres my .02 on that subject.  Newbies aren't
necessarily stupid nor uninformed, just lacking in
experience with this specific OS.


Dacia


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In a message dated 5/27/00 9:54:47 PM Mountain
> Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> writes:
> 
> > P.S. IMHO any newbie who downloads their first
> install of
> >  Linux instead of buying a documented package is
> truly nuts,
> 
> <--- is truely nuts then..DLed my
> first (RH 5.1)managed 
> to install it and fumble around, then I got smart
> and bought Linux 
> Unleased...so I could absorb clues in a faster
> fashion
> 
> Jerry
> 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Fran Parker]

That is my understanding about it being a
Winamp clone.

And it was on the 7.0 distro disk,
I didn't have to go looking for it on the web.

Bambi

Michael wrote:

> Isn't XMMS a Winamp clone. I have it in 7.o (air)
> ie. not unique to 7.1.
> =michael=

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[AOLShopGAM]

In a message dated 5/27/00 9:54:47 PM Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

> P.S. IMHO any newbie who downloads their first install of
>  Linux instead of buying a documented package is truly nuts,

<--- is truely nuts then..DLed my first (RH 5.1)managed 
to install it and fumble around, then I got smart and bought Linux 
Unleased...so I could absorb clues in a faster fashion

Jerry

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Charles A Edwards]

Micheal
   Is this an OEM product or did you buy it retail. The reason I ask is that
the only CD-RW drive listed at Panosonics Web is a PCMCIA drive. All their
other recordable drives are DVD-RAM. There is no listing at all for 7585
drive but they do list a 24 speed CR-585 CD-ROM drive. This could be why
neither Linux or Windows
recognizes it as a CD-RW because it is not.

   Charles



- Original Message -
From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1


> Charles-
> I have a cd rw but it's just an expensive 24 spin cd rom as far as i ,
> idiot that i am, can use it. It's a panasonic 7585 and although i
> followed the instructions
> in the muo howto, i still am only able to read fron it but hey, my
> windows 98 wont even recognize it!
>
> =michael=
>
>

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Michael]

Isn't XMMS a Winamp clone. I have it in 7.o (air)
ie. not unique to 7.1.
=michael=

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Michael]

A more stable Netscape. OR Konqueror, KDE's amazingly versatile and
powerful new browser + > I f it were there without having to compile, it
would indeed be cool!
=michael=

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Chmouel Boudjnah]

Denis HAVLIK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> GRUB is default now. If nothing was changed recently, LILO gets configured
> too, but not installed. 

i confirm !!!

-- 
MandrakeSoft Inchttp://www.mandrakesoft.com
In travel.--Chmouel

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Michael]

Charles-
I have a cd rw but it's just an expensive 24 spin cd rom as far as i ,
idiot that i am, can use it. It's a panasonic 7585 and although i
followed the instructions
in the muo howto, i still am only able to read fron it but hey, my
windows 98 wont even recognize it!

=michael=

[Fwd: Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1]

[Alan Shoemaker]

Whoops!  I meant Michael, sorry Paul.

Paulwith or without docs you can pre-order 7.1 at:

http://www.LLand.com/products/

Alan


Paul wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 26 May 2000, Michael wrote:
> 
> >HOW CAN I BUY 7.1 WITH DOCS OR WITHOUT?
> >-michael-
> 
> BY WAITING UNTIL IT COMES OUT.
> Sorry for shouting back.
> Paul
> 
> )0(---)0(
> 
> If all you have is a hammer
> everything looks like a nail
> 
> )0([[EMAIL PROTECTED]]-)0(
> http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208
> Registered Linux User 174403

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Alan Shoemaker]

Paulwith or without docs you can pre-order 7.1 at:

http://www.LLand.com/products/

Alan


Paul wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 26 May 2000, Michael wrote:
> 
> >HOW CAN I BUY 7.1 WITH DOCS OR WITHOUT?
> >-michael-
> 
> BY WAITING UNTIL IT COMES OUT.
> Sorry for shouting back.
> Paul
> 
> )0(---)0(
> 
> If all you have is a hammer
> everything looks like a nail
> 
> )0([[EMAIL PROTECTED]]-)0(
> http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208
> Registered Linux User 174403

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Charles A Edwards]

Alan Shoemaker wrote:

P.S. IMHO any newbie who downloads their first install of
Linux instead of buying a documented package is truly nuts,
and is asking for big problems, but this has nothing to do
with the particular disto or version as it applies to them
all.


Alan
   Believe it or not I think that though we state and look at things
differently, and can at times take the others statement in a manner he did
not mean, basicly we agree with each other.
   The only thing I meant in regards to 7.1 being more difficult than 7.0
was the same as you stated in your P.S.
and regards a new Linux user who installs 7.1 (which is not yet available
for sale) from the ISO rather than buying a packaged 7.0 .They will be in
for a rough ride and will probably give up on Linux as being to hard, and as
you note this does apply to any Linux distro not just Mandrake.
   Mandrake 7.0 is like my old recliner, all the lumps are in  the right
place and I am comfortable using it.  I am still trying to break in and
adapt myself to 7.1  so give me time and my opinions of it may be even
higher than yours.
 :-)

 Charles

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Alan Shoemaker]

Charlessorry if you took offense, as I didn't mean to be
offensive.  I certainly did misinterpret 'set up' to refer to
installation, my mistake.  If you don't care for my phrase
'step backward' then just what does '7.1 will be much more
difficult to set up and use than 7.0' actually mean?  It
certainly doesn't imply 'better' to me, so I think that 'step
backward' or 'worse' do seem to apply.  Your conclusion seems
negative to me and my impressions about version 7.1 were all
positive.  That's why I spoke up. Again I'm sorry if you took
offense.  I simply do not agree with your last statement
(conclusion) and said so.  No offense and no malice was
intended.  Insert smiley here ---> :-)

Alan

P.S. IMHO any newbie who downloads their first install of
Linux instead of buying a documented package is truly nuts,
and is asking for big problems, but this has nothing to do
with the particular disto or version as it applies to them
all.


Charles A Edwards wrote:
> 
> Alan
>I made no statement regarding the installation process of 7.1.  I too
> think it was actually easier to install than 7.0
>My use of setup was in referance to getting hardware configured and
> working, connectting to the internet and those type of set up task that you
> must do to use and take advantage of Mandrake.
>Making my observation I tried to put myself in the place of someone who
> was coming from a Windows enviroment
> and had never used Linux. I am still of the opinion that it would be to the
> advantage of said person to buy Mandrake 7.1 Complete (when it becomes
> available) rather than downloading the ISO files. When I am first learning
> something I prefer to have Docs. and manual in hand allowing me to search
> for any needed info or problem resolution as well as educating me in the OS,
> its behavior and its abilities. You get these with Complete you do not with
> the ISO. (As an added bonus you also help support Mandrake and its
> evolution.)
>In reference to the multiple programs, I mentioned these only because at
> least half the Discussion post have commented on mutiples in 7.0. To me you
> can never have enough programs. If you are running low on space get a bigger
> hd.
>I have carefuly re-read my original post and no where there in do I find
> the word "backwards", either used or implied.
> If my post struck a nerve in you I am sorry. You are more than welcome
> to ask me for clarification on any statement I ever make and to post your
> own, but I will not accept you presuming to tell me what I believe.
> 
>Charles
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Alan Shoemaker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: "Charles A Edwards" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 9:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1
> 
> > Charles A Edwards wrote:
> > >I Will make this statement regarding it. If you install via ISO
> rather
> > > than buying, and have never used Mandrake
> > > before: 7.1 will be much more difficult to set up and use than 7.0 .
> > >
> >
> > CharlesI copied the last paragraph of the below quoted
> > message and put it above to respond to it.
> >
> > I don't really understand why you say "7.1 will be much more
> > difficult to set up and use than 7.0 ."  It does not appear to
> > me to be more difficult for anyone to either use or install,
> > newbie or not.  It is IMHO, just as easy to install as 7.0
> > at the very least.  What is it that IYHO, makes it more
> > difficult?  The possibility of additional choices after the
> > installation, the need to change CD's when told to do so
> > during the installation?  What?
> >
> > With so many more programs already installed and on the menu
> > system for easy launching, I think that it is much easier for
> > the newbie just because it won't be necesssary to go out,
> > find, and install a desired program only to run into
> > installation problems, dependency problems, launching
> > problems, problems creating a menu entry (or desktop
> > icon)etc.
> >
> > Linux Mandrake 7.1 sure seems to me to be a significant step
> > forward in Linux user friendliness, not a backwards one as you
> > seem to feel it is. :-)
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >
>  > >LILO is no more instead GRUB is used as the boot loader.( During
> > > installation I was given no option in this. It was installed automaticly
> and
> > > I was given no option to create a boot disk. If this will be true in the

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Denis HAVLIK]

:~>   After following the thread of several of the Discussion Post I thought I
:~>should post some of the differances between version 7.0 and 7.1( beta 3 ).
:~>   I installed 7.1 yesterday and have not had the chance to fully explore it
:~>therefore the changes I am listing are the most obvious.
:~>   LILO is no more instead GRUB is used as the boot loader.( During
:~>installation I was given no option in this. It was installed automaticly and
:~>I was given no option to create a boot disk. If this will be true in the
:~>final release or only applies to the Beta I do not know.)

GRUB is default now. If nothing was changed recently, LILO gets configured
too, but not installed. In custom or expert install, one can choose which
bootloader he wants to use.

:~>   The How To included with 7.1 are the same as in 7.0 so you can not use
:~>them to implement any of the additional features of 7.1 .

? HOWTOS are HOWTOS, they are not distribution specific.

:~>   Your computer USB controller is now automaticlly seen by Mandrake
:~>allowing for the use of  additionl USB devices such as modems and Zip
:~>drives. Even then they only work with a direct computer connection not if
:~>you use a USB hub.

Well, it is a start. 

:~>   Several programs/enhancements have been added:
:~>  DVD Player
:~>  ICQ clone
:~>  Quick Time and MP3 player
:~>  Win Amp clone
:~>  Ati TV Tuner/drivers
:~>  DOS and even a Windows imulator
:~>  more..
:~>   The included programs have nearly doubled as evidenced by the fact that
:~>7.1 consisted of 2 ISO image files with a combined size of almost 1100MB
:~>   The increased number of programs has also increased the number of
:~>duplicate type programs: multiple; text editors, chat programs, 4 CD burner
:~>programs, image viewers, and others that did not jump right out at me.

Well, "problem" of duplicate progs is very simple. You tell me which
editor is the best. Tomorrow we have a nice flame war, everyone yelling
"my editor is better than yours". For instance, I am happy with xemacs,
pine and mc - but I am the only person in the company who uses exactly
this combination of progs.

:~>   Kppp has been changed to an Internet icon on the desktop though setting
:~>it up is the same.
:~>   The biggest noticeable change is in KDE. All programs and options are now
:~>available through its menu. You can completly fill your screen ten fold with
:~>menu screen and still not have opened them all. You feel like a mouse in a
:~>maze except that someone cheated and blocked all the corridors.Instead of
:~>becoming easier to use KDE has become more complicated.

good point. When many packages are installed, it could really become a
nightmare. Pff.

:~>   As I said I have been using 7.1 for 1 day and then only for a couple of
:~>hours so I am not making any judgements as to its abilitites or to its
:~>worrthiness as a successor to 7.0. Those observations can only be made after
:~>using 7.1 for a significant ammount of time and becoming familiar with all
:~>its nuances and inhancements.
:~>   I Will make this statement regarding it. If you install via ISO rather
:~>than buying, and have never used Mandrake
:~>before: 7.1 will be much more difficult to set up and use than 7.0 .

Why?

cu
Denis
-- 
-
Dr. Denis Havlik
Mandrakesoft||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quality Assurance  (@ @)(private: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
---oOO--(_)--OOo-

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Charles A Edwards]

Alan
   I made no statement regarding the installation process of 7.1.  I too
think it was actually easier to install than 7.0
   My use of setup was in referance to getting hardware configured and
working, connectting to the internet and those type of set up task that you
must do to use and take advantage of Mandrake.
   Making my observation I tried to put myself in the place of someone who
was coming from a Windows enviroment
and had never used Linux. I am still of the opinion that it would be to the
advantage of said person to buy Mandrake 7.1 Complete (when it becomes
available) rather than downloading the ISO files. When I am first learning
something I prefer to have Docs. and manual in hand allowing me to search
for any needed info or problem resolution as well as educating me in the OS,
its behavior and its abilities. You get these with Complete you do not with
the ISO. (As an added bonus you also help support Mandrake and its
evolution.)
   In reference to the multiple programs, I mentioned these only because at
least half the Discussion post have commented on mutiples in 7.0. To me you
can never have enough programs. If you are running low on space get a bigger
hd.
   I have carefuly re-read my original post and no where there in do I find
the word "backwards", either used or implied.
If my post struck a nerve in you I am sorry. You are more than welcome
to ask me for clarification on any statement I ever make and to post your
own, but I will not accept you presuming to tell me what I believe.

   Charles



- Original Message -
From: "Alan Shoemaker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Charles A Edwards" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1


> Charles A Edwards wrote:
> >I Will make this statement regarding it. If you install via ISO
rather
> > than buying, and have never used Mandrake
> > before: 7.1 will be much more difficult to set up and use than 7.0 .
> >
>
> CharlesI copied the last paragraph of the below quoted
> message and put it above to respond to it.
>
> I don't really understand why you say "7.1 will be much more
> difficult to set up and use than 7.0 ."  It does not appear to
> me to be more difficult for anyone to either use or install,
> newbie or not.  It is IMHO, just as easy to install as 7.0
> at the very least.  What is it that IYHO, makes it more
> difficult?  The possibility of additional choices after the
> installation, the need to change CD's when told to do so
> during the installation?  What?
>
> With so many more programs already installed and on the menu
> system for easy launching, I think that it is much easier for
> the newbie just because it won't be necesssary to go out,
> find, and install a desired program only to run into
> installation problems, dependency problems, launching
> problems, problems creating a menu entry (or desktop
> icon)etc.
>
> Linux Mandrake 7.1 sure seems to me to be a significant step
> forward in Linux user friendliness, not a backwards one as you
> seem to feel it is. :-)
>
> Alan
>
>
 > >LILO is no more instead GRUB is used as the boot loader.( During
> > installation I was given no option in this. It was installed automaticly
and
> > I was given no option to create a boot disk. If this will be true in the
> > final release or only applies to the Beta I do not know.)
> >The How To included with 7.1 are the same as in 7.0 so you can not
use
> > them to implement any of the additional features of 7.1 .
> >Your computer USB controller is now automaticlly seen by Mandrake
> > allowing for the use of  additionl USB devices such as modems and Zip
> > drives. Even then they only work with a direct computer connection not
if
> > you use a USB hub.
> >Several programs/enhancements have been added:
> >   DVD Player
> >   ICQ clone
> >   Quick Time and MP3 player
> >   Win Amp clone
> >   Ati TV Tuner/drivers
> >   DOS and even a Windows imulator
> >   more..
> >The included programs have nearly doubled as evidenced by the fact
that
> > 7.1 consisted of 2 ISO image files with a combined size of almost 1100MB
> >The increased number of programs has also increased the number of
> > duplicate type programs: multiple; text editors, chat programs, 4 CD
burner
> > programs, image viewers, and others that did not jump right out at me.
> >Kppp has been changed to an Internet icon on the desktop though
setting
> > it up is the same.
> >The biggest noticeable change is in KDE. All programs and options are
now
> > available throug

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Charles A Edwards]

Michael
   Mandrake 7.1 has not been released yet. It is still in beta testing so
the only way you can get it is by downloading the ISO and burning it to disk
on a CD-RW.

   Charles



- Original Message -
From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1


> HOW CAN I BUY 7.1 WITH DOCS OR WITHOUT?
> -michael-
>
>

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Michael]

HOW CAN I BUY 7.1 WITH DOCS OR WITHOUT?
-michael-

Re: [[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Alan Shoemaker]

Charles A Edwards wrote:
>I Will make this statement regarding it. If you install via ISO rather
> than buying, and have never used Mandrake
> before: 7.1 will be much more difficult to set up and use than 7.0 .
> 

CharlesI copied the last paragraph of the below quoted
message and put it above to respond to it.

I don't really understand why you say "7.1 will be much more
difficult to set up and use than 7.0 ."  It does not appear to
me to be more difficult for anyone to either use or install,
newbie or not.  It is IMHO, just as easy to install as 7.0
at the very least.  What is it that IYHO, makes it more
difficult?  The possibility of additional choices after the
installation, the need to change CD's when told to do so
during the installation?  What?

With so many more programs already installed and on the menu
system for easy launching, I think that it is much easier for
the newbie just because it won't be necesssary to go out,
find, and install a desired program only to run into
installation problems, dependency problems, launching
problems, problems creating a menu entry (or desktop
icon)etc.

Linux Mandrake 7.1 sure seems to me to be a significant step
forward in Linux user friendliness, not a backwards one as you
seem to feel it is. :-)

Alan


Charles A Edwards wrote:
> 
>After following the thread of several of the Discussion Post I thought I
> should post some of the differances between version 7.0 and 7.1( beta 3 ).
>I installed 7.1 yesterday and have not had the chance to fully explore it
> therefore the changes I am listing are the most obvious.
>LILO is no more instead GRUB is used as the boot loader.( During
> installation I was given no option in this. It was installed automaticly and
> I was given no option to create a boot disk. If this will be true in the
> final release or only applies to the Beta I do not know.)
>The How To included with 7.1 are the same as in 7.0 so you can not use
> them to implement any of the additional features of 7.1 .
>Your computer USB controller is now automaticlly seen by Mandrake
> allowing for the use of  additionl USB devices such as modems and Zip
> drives. Even then they only work with a direct computer connection not if
> you use a USB hub.
>Several programs/enhancements have been added:
>   DVD Player
>   ICQ clone
>   Quick Time and MP3 player
>   Win Amp clone
>   Ati TV Tuner/drivers
>   DOS and even a Windows imulator
>   more..
>The included programs have nearly doubled as evidenced by the fact that
> 7.1 consisted of 2 ISO image files with a combined size of almost 1100MB
>The increased number of programs has also increased the number of
> duplicate type programs: multiple; text editors, chat programs, 4 CD burner
> programs, image viewers, and others that did not jump right out at me.
>Kppp has been changed to an Internet icon on the desktop though setting
> it up is the same.
>The biggest noticeable change is in KDE. All programs and options are now
> available through its menu. You can completly fill your screen ten fold with
> menu screen and still not have opened them all. You feel like a mouse in a
> maze except that someone cheated and blocked all the corridors.Instead of
> becoming easier to use KDE has become more complicated.
>As I said I have been using 7.1 for 1 day and then only for a couple of
> hours so I am not making any judgements as to its abilitites or to its
> worrthiness as a successor to 7.0. Those observations can only be made after
> using 7.1 for a significant ammount of time and becoming familiar with all
> its nuances and inhancements.
>I Will make this statement regarding it. If you install via ISO rather
> than buying, and have never used Mandrake
> before: 7.1 will be much more difficult to set up and use than 7.0 .
> 
>Charles

[[newbie] Discussion: Changes Found in Mandrake 7.1

[Charles A Edwards]

   After following the thread of several of the Discussion Post I thought I
should post some of the differances between version 7.0 and 7.1( beta 3 ).
   I installed 7.1 yesterday and have not had the chance to fully explore it
therefore the changes I am listing are the most obvious.
   LILO is no more instead GRUB is used as the boot loader.( During
installation I was given no option in this. It was installed automaticly and
I was given no option to create a boot disk. If this will be true in the
final release or only applies to the Beta I do not know.)
   The How To included with 7.1 are the same as in 7.0 so you can not use
them to implement any of the additional features of 7.1 .
   Your computer USB controller is now automaticlly seen by Mandrake
allowing for the use of  additionl USB devices such as modems and Zip
drives. Even then they only work with a direct computer connection not if
you use a USB hub.
   Several programs/enhancements have been added:
  DVD Player
  ICQ clone
  Quick Time and MP3 player
  Win Amp clone
  Ati TV Tuner/drivers
  DOS and even a Windows imulator
  more..
   The included programs have nearly doubled as evidenced by the fact that
7.1 consisted of 2 ISO image files with a combined size of almost 1100MB
   The increased number of programs has also increased the number of
duplicate type programs: multiple; text editors, chat programs, 4 CD burner
programs, image viewers, and others that did not jump right out at me.
   Kppp has been changed to an Internet icon on the desktop though setting
it up is the same.
   The biggest noticeable change is in KDE. All programs and options are now
available through its menu. You can completly fill your screen ten fold with
menu screen and still not have opened them all. You feel like a mouse in a
maze except that someone cheated and blocked all the corridors.Instead of
becoming easier to use KDE has become more complicated.
   As I said I have been using 7.1 for 1 day and then only for a couple of
hours so I am not making any judgements as to its abilitites or to its
worrthiness as a successor to 7.0. Those observations can only be made after
using 7.1 for a significant ammount of time and becoming familiar with all
its nuances and inhancements.
   I Will make this statement regarding it. If you install via ISO rather
than buying, and have never used Mandrake
before: 7.1 will be much more difficult to set up and use than 7.0 .

   Charles