Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Sunday 21 November 2004 05:10 pm, JoeHill wrote: > On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:55:57 +1100 > > Stephen Kühn disseminated the following: > > > > so there are flavours of Slack with package management now? If so, > > > > that's sweet. > > > > > > Ya ever hear of "slackget"?:) > > > > > > Never used it, though. I prefer getting me hands dirtysame way I > > > dismantle > > > car/boat engines: rebuilding is reversed order of dismantling...and > > > whatever > > > > > > is left over, wasn't needed anyway;) > > > > (It's what he does to complete large barges, too)(g) > > ...which, as you pointed out previously, usually end up grounded on some > sandbar. that could be serious on the other hand if the bong is loaded then it's a good place to be -- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Monday 22 November 2004 7:50 pm, JoeHill wrote: > On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:14:09 + > > Keith Powell disseminated the following: > > Debian based distros? > > > > I suggest Libranet, a very "user friendly" version. > > Yep, forgot about that one. IIRC, it's a Canuck outfit, no? Yes. It is a mixture of Debian stable, unstable, and "tweaked"! If the two Libranet "bosses" decide that a package in the Debian unstable branch is perfectly stable, it will be added to the distro. So it is quite up-to-date for Debian! Cheers Keith Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:14:09 + Keith Powell disseminated the following: > Debian based distros? > > I suggest Libranet, a very "user friendly" version. Yep, forgot about that one. IIRC, it's a Canuck outfit, no? -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 14:49:49 up 1 day, 5:58, 7 users, load average: 0.15, 0.18, 0.33 +++ "Where the state begins, individual liberty ceases, and vice versa." -- Bakunin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
Debian based distros? I suggest Libranet, a very "user friendly" version. It's available as a free download. Keith Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users? Debian NOT.
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:24:12 -0500 Bill Mudry disseminated the following: What's with your line wrap d00d?! Oh, wait, Windows Eudora, that explains it. Anyhow, settle down, like I said to Harm, I only meant to disabuse people of the 'fear' of trying Debian, and the impression that the installation is some kind of mindbending puzzle. Would I recommend some complete non-geek Newb attempt a 'plain' Debian install? No. Would I recommend that Newbs on this list play with other distros if they get the chance? WTFN? -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 20:43:53 up 11:52, 6 users, load average: 0.39, 0.39, 0.32 +++ There are literally several levels of SCO being wrong. And even if we were to live in that alternate universe where SCO would be right, they'd still be wrong. -- Linus Torvalds Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users? Debian NOT.
At 04:26 PM 11/21/04 -0500, you wrote: On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:12:43 -0800 David E. Fox disseminated the following: > > try plopping a newbie in Debian. Nothing against Debian, I like > > Debian, all 14 discs of Debian, but a newbie is liable to give up and > > never touch Linux again for ten years before he even makes it past the > > base system installation > > Well, sure enough. But that's if you do a real debian based install -- > in many respects an "old fashioned" way to do things, now that there are > a lot of one-disk front ends that are far easier to install (kanotix, > knoppix, mepis, etc). They get you up and running fairly quickly, and > then yuu apt-get everything you can get your hands on :). > > Personally speaking, I might never attempt a "real" debian install, but > I had a rather serious foulup with Mandrake 10.1/cooker a month or so > ago, and I ended up switching to Mepis. In short, I'm very happy with > it. Actually, installing Debian, even as I did it, over the 'Net with boot floppies, is easier in some respects than the same on Mandrake. At least it knows where to look for the packages by itself, right off the bat, unlike Mandrake. *And* it'll run on older hardware. Mandrake simply would not work on the old clunker I wanted to ressurect. Apart from that, it was not much more difficult. The hardware detection is obviously not there in the same way as something like Mandrake, and you have to know how to partition your drive(s), but that's the only difference I could find. HUH? Sheez .. All I surmise from your words, Joe, is a between the lines admission of your abilities in Linux well *beyond* newbie level. First you say it is easy then you admit that hardware detection is missing. You have lost sight that we are talking about NEWBIES, not experienced installers. I have done text based installs (SCO years ago), graphical installs, some successful, many not. Trust me . when something does NOT work on an attempt to install, even power users migrating over from Windows do NOT know what to do. The few may go further to research books, the Internet and use discussion groups - but they are the exceptional ones(!). The majority will just go away disillusioned, telling others Linux how it would not work for them, creating more dissension than interest. Understanding partitioning is by far something that few people who use personal computers around the world understand at all. Is the object to get Linux adopted by only the technically competent in the world or is it to make Linux manageable by *average* computer users. The bulk of users (by volume) have little or no knowledge of the inner doings of any operating system and are glad to turn on their computer, take for granted that it will run, and just use the applications that are their favorites, whether it is browsing the Internet, sending email, writing a letter (all three the most common), listen to music and so on. Many ... and I do mean many . either rely on a friend or relative who is more knowledgeable when things go wrong ... or pay through the nose for technical online help or (more likely) pay technicians at a computer store to "make things work right". For these typical users, you would end up spending the first half hour to answer their first question of "What's partitioning anyway?". I have taught windows courses and helped seniors in their homes to make their PC's easier to use for them and to train them some. Some didn't even have a virus checker or kept them updated and even more didn't understand paths ... and so would lose their files and not even know how to find them. We all know that not knowing what you are doing with partitioning can be a dangerous procedure that can totally screw up a computer > unless you are already quite technically knowledgeable in the first place. I never consider this prime newbie stuff and needs to be as transparent as possible of newcomers to Linux. I downloaded all 7 disks of Debian and tried to install it. Soon I was confronted with just a menu of activities and absolutely NO guide to tell me if there was a special order to do them or if that mattered. At this point, you would see a flood of "average" Windows or Mac users tuck in their tail and walk away. I went into each one in the order presented, yet found I was asked very technical questions, a few that I had not even heard of before. I am sorry Joe, you have become so used to the ADVANCED knowledge level you have that you have lost memory of what it was like when you did not know. Raw Debian itself may be great once fully set up and especially good for POWER Linux users because of its configurability but it is NOT a good Distro for newcomers as a first experience into the world of Linux --- especially if they have to install it first. Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if more new computers were pre-loaded with Debian. .. I gave up and decided to try
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:55:57 +1100 Stephen Kühn disseminated the following: > > > so there are flavours of Slack with package management now? If so, > > > that's sweet. > > > > Ya ever hear of "slackget"?:) > > > > Never used it, though. I prefer getting me hands dirtysame way I > > dismantle > > car/boat engines: rebuilding is reversed order of dismantling...and whatever > > > > is left over, wasn't needed anyway;) > > (It's what he does to complete large barges, too)(g) ...which, as you pointed out previously, usually end up grounded on some sandbar. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 20:08:00 up 11:17, 6 users, load average: 0.45, 0.54, 0.41 +++ "He who does not put out his money at interest, and does not take a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things shall never be moved." -- Psalm 15 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
H.J.Bathoorn wrote: On Sunday 21 November 2004 22:26, JoeHill wrote: If any distro is likely to 'scare' a newbie, I'd wager it's Slackware or Gentoo, certainly not Debian. Now you've done it You just touched my first (linux) love; Slackware. I'll beat the daylights out of you given half the chance;) Hahh, I've even still got the huge Walnut Creek "Linux The Advanced Reference" book (or is it bible?) right up front in my bookcase. All the Howto's in dead tree format...just love the feel of it:) Slack was my first encounter witj linux that actually stuck (Mdk and Suse certainly NOT, at the time)..Check out slack-live or slax: live distro's that'll run on anything 386_up. If knoppix or whatever won't run on it, slack or slax will! OpenOffice included at all;) I guess I'll have to take another look at Slack. It too was my first Linux distribution. Installed on my trusty 386 from a stack of floppies. (386-DX25 with a waping 8MB of RAM!) Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Mon, 2004-11-22 at 11:16, H.J.Bathoorn wrote: > On Monday 22 November 2004 00:03, JoeHill wrote: > > so there are flavours of Slack with package management now? If so, > > that's sweet. > > Ya ever hear of "slackget"?:) > > Never used it, though. I prefer getting me hands dirtysame way I > dismantle > car/boat engines: rebuilding is reversed order of dismantling...and whatever > is left over, wasn't needed anyway;) (It's what he does to complete large barges, too)(g) -- stephen kuhn mobile: 0410-728-389 illawarra and regional new south wales --- GNU/Linux/OpenSource Solutions and Alternatives 100% Microsoft Free - Reboot is NOT an option. Registered Linux User # 267497 --- QOTD: "If he learns from his mistakes, pretty soon he'll know everything." Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Monday 22 November 2004 00:03, JoeHill wrote: > so there are flavours of Slack with package management now? If so, > that's sweet. Ya ever hear of "slackget"?:) Never used it, though. I prefer getting me hands dirtysame way I dismantle car/boat engines: rebuilding is reversed order of dismantling...and whatever is left over, wasn't needed anyway;) -- Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:40:49 +0100 H.J.Bathoorn disseminated the following: > > If any distro is likely to 'scare' a newbie, I'd wager it's Slackware or > > Gentoo, certainly not Debian. > > Now you've done it > You just touched my first (linux) love; Slackware. I'll beat the daylights out > of you given half the chance;) It's a long lineup, and someone's started charging a fee... ;-) > Hahh, I've even still got the huge Walnut Creek "Linux The Advanced Reference" > > book (or is it bible?) right up front in my bookcase. All the Howto's in dead > tree format...just love the feel of it:) > > Slack was my first encounter witj linux that actually stuck (Mdk and Suse > certainly NOT, at the time)..Check out slack-live or slax: live distro's > that'll run on anything 386_up. If knoppix or whatever won't run on it, slack > or slax will! OpenOffice included at all;) Believe me, I have absolutely nothing against Slack, I only meant to contrast it with Debian as being 'scary' for newbs. However, that too seems to be out the window...so there are flavours of Slack with package management now? If so, that's sweet. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 17:59:44 up 9:08, 6 users, load average: 0.05, 0.03, 0.00 +++ There are literally several levels of SCO being wrong. And even if we were to live in that alternate universe where SCO would be right, they'd still be wrong. -- Linus Torvalds Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Sunday 21 November 2004 22:26, JoeHill wrote: > If any distro is likely to 'scare' a newbie, I'd wager it's Slackware or > Gentoo, certainly not Debian. Now you've done it You just touched my first (linux) love; Slackware. I'll beat the daylights out of you given half the chance;) Hahh, I've even still got the huge Walnut Creek "Linux The Advanced Reference" book (or is it bible?) right up front in my bookcase. All the Howto's in dead tree format...just love the feel of it:) Slack was my first encounter witj linux that actually stuck (Mdk and Suse certainly NOT, at the time)..Check out slack-live or slax: live distro's that'll run on anything 386_up. If knoppix or whatever won't run on it, slack or slax will! OpenOffice included at all;) -- Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:12:43 -0800 David E. Fox disseminated the following: > > try plopping a newbie in Debian. Nothing against Debian, I like > > Debian, all 14 discs of Debian, but a newbie is liable to give up and > > never touch Linux again for ten years before he even makes it past the > > base system installation > > Well, sure enough. But that's if you do a real debian based install -- > in many respects an "old fashioned" way to do things, now that there are > a lot of one-disk front ends that are far easier to install (kanotix, > knoppix, mepis, etc). They get you up and running fairly quickly, and > then yuu apt-get everything you can get your hands on :). > > Personally speaking, I might never attempt a "real" debian install, but > I had a rather serious foulup with Mandrake 10.1/cooker a month or so > ago, and I ended up switching to Mepis. In short, I'm very happy with > it. Actually, installing Debian, even as I did it, over the 'Net with boot floppies, is easier in some respects than the same on Mandrake. At least it knows where to look for the packages by itself, right off the bat, unlike Mandrake. *And* it'll run on older hardware. Mandrake simply would not work on the old clunker I wanted to ressurect. Apart from that, it was not much more difficult. The hardware detection is obviously not there in the same way as something like Mandrake, and you have to know how to partition your drive(s), but that's the only difference I could find. Once it's installed, you've got a functional desktop in terms of all the basics, and Synaptic is very close to the Mandrake package manager in MCC, perhaps not as polished. For all the people that dis' Debian, you've got to ask yourself: why is it, then, that distros like Knoppix (and all its variations), Mepis, and Xandros have chosen Debian as their base? If any distro is likely to 'scare' a newbie, I'd wager it's Slackware or Gentoo, certainly not Debian. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 16:12:39 up 7:21, 6 users, load average: 0.74, 0.63, 0.48 +++ "Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power" -- Benito Mussolini Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:52:17 -0600 Eric Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > try plopping a newbie in Debian. Nothing against Debian, I like > Debian, all 14 discs of Debian, but a newbie is liable to give up and > never touch Linux again for ten years before he even makes it past the > base system installation Well, sure enough. But that's if you do a real debian based install -- in many respects an "old fashioned" way to do things, now that there are a lot of one-disk front ends that are far easier to install (kanotix, knoppix, mepis, etc). They get you up and running fairly quickly, and then yuu apt-get everything you can get your hands on :). Personally speaking, I might never attempt a "real" debian install, but I had a rather serious foulup with Mandrake 10.1/cooker a month or so ago, and I ended up switching to Mepis. In short, I'm very happy with it. -- David E. Fox Thanks for letting me [EMAIL PROTECTED]change magnetic patterns [EMAIL PROTECTED] on your hard disk. --- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:58:50 -0500 David Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here's my concern about Live CDs: In older machines with slower CD > drives, they're awful. It takes about 10 minutes for the distros I've True enough. And larger distros like Knoppix tend to try and cram a great deal of functionalilty into that one cd-rom, and on Knoppix many of the binaries are compressed, which adds to the load time on slower machines. > -- David E. Fox Thanks for letting me [EMAIL PROTECTED]change magnetic patterns [EMAIL PROTECTED] on your hard disk. --- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:00:04 -0500 David Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm evaluating various Linux distros in order to recommend one to > novice users, particularly Windows switchers. Mandrake has been > recommended to me, especially since it can resize NTFS partitions. Speaking of various linux distros, one you might want to take a real peek at this one, it's called MEPIS. It's one-disk, debian (testing branch mostly) based, runs off a live CD so you can look at it without installing, and the installer is very clean ans quick. http://www.mepis.com/ -- David E. Fox Thanks for letting me [EMAIL PROTECTED]change magnetic patterns [EMAIL PROTECTED] on your hard disk. --- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 15 November 2004 23:27, Paul wrote: Op Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:13:54 +1100 schreef Stephen Kühn: There are some that can work - and work very well with GNU/linux, but sadly, quite a few cannot. I once made a winmodem with a Lucent chipset work in Linux. That was quite easy. I had a simialr experience - easier than windows. The guy I did it for said it worked better than windows. Strangely, he went back to using windows - he didn't like having to enter a password when booting up! I am running a Lucent chipset "winmodem" in my laptop under 9.2. No problems, but I don't have any processor intensive processes going in the background when I use dialup... (I normally use a wireless connection to a router connected to a DSL.) Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 09:19, H.J.Bathoorn wrote: > On Monday 15 November 2004 23:00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Strangely, he went back to using windows - he didn't like having to enter a > > password when booting up! > > You don't have to if you don't want to..I suddenly realized how horribly > wrong that could go after I thought my laptop had been lost. > > Luckily, it got brought back the next dayyep, that's right! Honesty > is > still around. > I'd left it on a bus in the city of Ghent (Belgium) and never expected to see > it again.it wasn't even an old one. Just about 2 weeks old and NOT > configured as I would've wanted it but enough to hurt me if somebody wanted > to. NOTE: He grounds barges, looses laptops - hmmma picture is being painted here... -- stephen kuhn mobile: 0410-728-389 illawarra and regional new south wales --- GNU/Linux/OpenSource Solutions and Alternatives 100% Microsoft Free and no viruses Registered Linux User # 267497 Windows: Where do you want to go today? MacOS: Where do you want to be tomorrow? Linux: Are you coming or what? --- Yow! I just went below the poverty line! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Monday 15 November 2004 23:00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Strangely, he went back to using windows - he didn't like having to enter a > password when booting up! You don't have to if you don't want to..I suddenly realized how horribly wrong that could go after I thought my laptop had been lost. Luckily, it got brought back the next dayyep, that's right! Honesty is still around. I'd left it on a bus in the city of Ghent (Belgium) and never expected to see it again.it wasn't even an old one. Just about 2 weeks old and NOT configured as I would've wanted it but enough to hurt me if somebody wanted to. -- Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Monday 15 November 2004 23:27, Paul wrote: > Op Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:13:54 +1100 schreef Stephen Kühn: > >There are some that can work - and work very well with GNU/linux, but > >sadly, quite a few cannot. > > I once made a winmodem with a Lucent chipset work in Linux. That was > quite easy. > I had a simialr experience - easier than windows. The guy I did it for said it worked better than windows. Strangely, he went back to using windows - he didn't like having to enter a password when booting up! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
Op Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:13:54 +1100 schreef Stephen Kühn: >There are some that can work - and work very well with GNU/linux, but >sadly, quite a few cannot. I once made a winmodem with a Lucent chipset work in Linux. That was quite easy. Paul Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 00:59, David Feldman wrote: > Am I correct in understanding, then, that Linuxes in general don't like > internal modems? I have not done any modem testing at all. 90% of "internal modems" have chipsets/instructions sets that are written in a proprietary manner for MS Windows only (hence the nickname winmodems); in most instances, their functionality cannot be emulated by linux because the company producing them refuses to allow access to their instructions sets - so an OSS programmer cannot write a third party device driver for that unit or chipset. There are some that can work - and work very well with GNU/linux, but sadly, quite a few cannot. This also goes to stand with other hardware that was created specifically with MS Windows "hardware standards" - not written for anything BUT MS Windows (or Mac for that matter). -- stephen kuhn mobile: 0410-728-389 illawarra and regional new south wales --- GNU/Linux/OpenSource Solutions and Alternatives 100% Microsoft Free and no viruses Registered Linux User # 267497 Windows: Where do you want to go today? MacOS: Where do you want to be tomorrow? Linux: Are you coming or what? --- Croll's Query: If tin whistles are made of tin, what are foghorns made of? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
> If it's the "Hardware" type, that has it's own Processor etc, I have had no > problems. But, if it's a "winmodem" (sometimes labelled a software modem), > that relies on using some of the Windows system resources to run, then it > can be trickier. I also have an internal modem. The sellers of my computer did send me a generic linux driver for it...but only once I was connected through my external modem which was supported without problem by Mdk. Without an external modem, I couldn´t have connected to get the driver QED Maryse Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Sunday 14 November 2004 22:22, Carroll Grigsby wrote: > > BUT, (a) few users install Windows themselves, > > Perhaps not, but sooner or later they do reformat and reinstall -- > sometimes frequently -- often at the suggestion of MS tech support. Perhaps > 2000 and XP are better in this regard, but it has always been the standard > fix for the Win9x series. 2000 and XP seem to be a little better in this case, but faar from perfect. PC Magizine still stresses that the only way to keep your computer relatively bug free... weather or not you're connected to the internet and have worms/viruses... is to reinstall at LEAST once a year. I tend to tinker so much with my systems that I reinstall ten times as often, sometimes leaving Windows completely off a system for six months until it's needed again. But back in the dark days when I was a Windows-only user that had never installed an OS, I used Windows XP straight for two years on a Pentium one box @ 233MHz. It ran fine at first, but by the time I finally upgraded my computer it took a minute and a half to open the start menu, with 50% of my memory totally free, and (supposedly) no viruses. I've never had such a problem with Linux' performace reducing with time, but it's commonplace in Windows. I expect no change in that respect with longhorn; I heard someplace that to fix this issue Windows would require a complete rewrite of large sections of their kernel... and since when did Microsoft care enouh about the world to make such a contribution to computer performance? Security? Sure! With security fixes you can do things like block competitive software from being installed because it's a "security issue," but increase performance? How will that help them? They already have the market share they want. Neway, that's my 2 cents. -- Registered Linux user #366862 This message was sent from a Microsoft-Free 750MHz Athlon system running SuSE Linux 9.1 (Kernel 2.6.5), multi-booted with RedHat 8.0 (Kernel 2.4.18; can't get Fedora to work!) and Debian 3.0 (Kernel 2.2.20). "Failure is not an option with Microsoft; it's bundled with the software!" "A Linux Only area ÂHappy bug hunting M$ clan, The time is here to FORGET that M$ Corp ever existed the world does not NEED M$ Corp the world hasÂNO USE for M$ Corp Âit is time to END M$ Corp" -snipped from the signature of Peter Nikolic Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Monday 15 November 2004 08:07 am, J wrote: > >Am I correct in understanding, then, that Linuxes in general don't like > >internal modems? I have not done any modem testing at all. > > Depends what type of modem it is! > > If it's the "Hardware" type, that has it's own Processor etc, I have had no > problems. But, if it's a "winmodem" (sometimes labelled a software modem), > that relies on using some of the Windows system resources to run, then it > can be trickier. > > I havent yet managed to get a winmodem running (but then again, I havent > really tried that hard), and have always used my ancient Rockwell ISA > modem, that works straight outta the box with Mandrake, if I have needed to > for any reason. > > James > > - Original Message - > From: "David Feldman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 1:59 PM > Subject: Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users? > > > Am I correct in understanding, then, that Linuxes in general don't like > internal modems? I have not done any modem testing at all. Its not that its an internal modem but that its a so-called Winmodem to save 50 cents or so it uses Win system calls to do what should be done in hardware external modems have evrything that they need > > On Nov 15, 2004, at 7:34, M.Schild wrote: > >>> I'm still searching for that perfect distro to recommend, but this > >>> isn't an experience I would want to impose on a novice user. While > >>> it's > >>> possible I have an unusual configuration, one key thing in an distro > >>> for novices has to be excellent hardware support out of the box. Am I > >>> missing something obvious here that would solve my problems? > > > > I am a typical ignorant homeuser but had no trouble installing Mdk9.1 > > and find > > Mkd 10 a dream. The only thing I think they should state clearly on > > their > > boxes is to use an external modem. A total newbie with no Windows ( I > > don´t > > run Windows but had an ext modem) would get really stuck with an > > internal > > modem only > > Maryse > > > > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com > > Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com > > > > --- >- > > > > > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com > > Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com > > -- When a citizen gives his suffrage to a man of known immorality he abuses his trust; he sacrifices not only his own interest, but that of his neighbor, he betrays the interest of his country." --Noah Webster. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
> Am I correct in understanding, then, that Linuxes in general don't like > internal modems? I have not done any modem testing at all. > > On Nov 15, 2004, at 7:34, M.Schild wrote: > For the most part, internal modems tend to be "win modems" that use software to do the work of hardware. Because they require specific software to make them work, they do tend to be a problem under Linux. For some of them, there is software available to make them work. As these modules are not included normaly included, you have download and install them yourself. These drivers are usualy generic drivers for a specific chip set, rather then a specific modem, they may not support all the features of the modem. Most (all?) of these drivers are also closed-source, so you don't realy know what you are getting. But if yo uhave one of the supported chip sets, they do work fairly well. Be aware that this type of modem does not do well under high CPU load. This is a problem under both Windows and Linux. On the other hand, if you have a "hardware" modem, it works well regardless of weather it is internel or externel. One way to tell if you have a hardware morem is that they normaly do NOT specify a minimum CPU required to run them, and do not need a driver for basic functions. They still require software to use features like speaker phone, or voice recording/playback under Windows, but they will work as a modem with the generic modem drivers. One BIG problem with "win" modems - if you do not have the driver for them, you can not use them to download the driver... Mikkel Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
Am I correct in understanding, then, that Linuxes in general don't like internal modems? I have not done any modem testing at all. Depends what type of modem it is! If it's the "Hardware" type, that has it's own Processor etc, I have had no problems. But, if it's a "winmodem" (sometimes labelled a software modem), that relies on using some of the Windows system resources to run, then it can be trickier. I havent yet managed to get a winmodem running (but then again, I havent really tried that hard), and have always used my ancient Rockwell ISA modem, that works straight outta the box with Mandrake, if I have needed to for any reason. James - Original Message - From: "David Feldman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users? Am I correct in understanding, then, that Linuxes in general don't like internal modems? I have not done any modem testing at all. On Nov 15, 2004, at 7:34, M.Schild wrote: : I'm still searching for that perfect distro to recommend, but this isn't an experience I would want to impose on a novice user. While it's possible I have an unusual configuration, one key thing in an distro for novices has to be excellent hardware support out of the box. Am I missing something obvious here that would solve my problems? I am a typical ignorant homeuser but had no trouble installing Mdk9.1 and find Mkd 10 a dream. The only thing I think they should state clearly on their boxes is to use an external modem. A total newbie with no Windows ( I don´t run Windows but had an ext modem) would get really stuck with an internal modem only Maryse Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
Gee, my Linux installations work right out of the box. Even when some tweaking is required, I've been able to get onto the web and go looking for help. And I've never had to dive around in drawers looking for old CDs and floppies. By and large my experience has been the same. Perhaps not, but sooner or later they do reformat and reinstall -- sometimes frequently -- often at the suggestion of MS tech support. Perhaps 2000 and XP are better in this regard, but it has always been the standard fix for the Win9x series. I had Dell support walk me through this a few months ago on a friend's laptop (I'm primarily a Mac user) and was amazed at what a difficult process it was. Better with XP than older OSes, though. Wiping and reinstalling has always been a standard, fairly easy tool in my troubleshooting arsenal on the Mac side. That aside, I'd love to see some numbers on this. My impression from Windows users I know is that they generally don't reinstall. They get a fresh copy when they get a new machine. In the words of the old song, it ain't necessarily so. You are assuming that (1) the user has not changed any hardware since the OS was loaded at the factory, (2) the component manufacturers have not updated any drivers since releasing it to either MS or the machine builder, and (3) the user has the driver CD -- it didn't get lost, the cat didn't eat it, the machine builder didn't include it, the drivers were installed in a special partition on the original HD which just went belly up. Although it's been several years since I last installed Windows, I remember that once I had the system up and running, the next task was to go to each hardware manufacturer's website and get the latest drivers. (More reboots, too. Oh joy.) Then, as each bit of software was installed, I had to get the latest updates for them. Bit of a pain, especially on dialup. Many hours of totally unproductive time. And now you know why I no longer have Windows installed here. Fair points all. However, when a Windows user is in this position he usually has to persevere due to a lack of other options. A new Linux user can always give up and go back to Windows, something I'd like to prevent :-) Some thoughts: (1) Give them a copy of Knoppix (or Mandrake Move or whatever...). It's not only a quick and easy way of determining any potential conflicts between their hardware and Linux, but it is an excellent introduction to Linux. Here's my concern about Live CDs: In older machines with slower CD drives, they're awful. It takes about 10 minutes for the distros I've tried to give up loading OpenOffice. I'd hate for that to be someone's first impression of Linux. (2) Does the term "install fest" ring a bell? Yeah, it's a pain schlepping a monster tower and the other hardware clear across town, but they'll get some very smart people to get them up and running. BTW, there is no reason that install fests have to be run by a group -- perhaps you could volunteer to get them started. It's a thought. However, I'm recommending in an article which means I'm talking to a geographically distributed set of people, so it may not be a complete answer. (3) (Here I play the elitist card) Their unwillingness to either take a chance on something new, or to expend some effort learning something new could be an indication that Linux _is_not_ the solution for them. You might get their interest aroused, however, by pointing out how little time we Linuxers spend defragging or chasing viruses, or how a Linux distribution includes a whole lot more that just an OS with a few accessories. You might also point out how much free help is available to them -- including this mail list. Again, makes sense but: - I'm hoping I can convince at least a few people that it's relatively easy to install, easier to use than Windows, more secure than Windows, and less expensive than Windows, as well as (as you suggest) easier to maintain and administer. If I can do that and the install really does turn out to be easy for them, maybe it'll stick. I'm sure I will have a lot of people dismiss the recommendation on the grounds that it's not worth it. Fine. So then my next unfortunate task is to help them secure their Windows systems. - The free help thing is a funny one. My impression is that many users may be reluctant to get their help from mailing lists, forums, etc. It's what I do 90% of the time, even on commercial products, because it tends to result in more knowledgeable answers (not to mention less time spent on hold). But I think there's an idea of a "official" answer that people are too attached to. Curious -- Mandrake is generally regarded as easy to install. I've tried several different distros over the summer. The only one that gave me a hard time was Xandros. It decided that my my modem was a Winmodem and refused any attempts to change its mind. The modem, a Zoom 2761 serial external unit, was deeply insulted. Hell, eve
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
Am I correct in understanding, then, that Linuxes in general don't like internal modems? I have not done any modem testing at all. On Nov 15, 2004, at 7:34, M.Schild wrote: : I'm still searching for that perfect distro to recommend, but this isn't an experience I would want to impose on a novice user. While it's possible I have an unusual configuration, one key thing in an distro for novices has to be excellent hardware support out of the box. Am I missing something obvious here that would solve my problems? I am a typical ignorant homeuser but had no trouble installing Mdk9.1 and find Mkd 10 a dream. The only thing I think they should state clearly on their boxes is to use an external modem. A total newbie with no Windows ( I don´t run Windows but had an ext modem) would get really stuck with an internal modem only Maryse Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
: > > I'm still searching for that perfect distro to recommend, but this > > isn't an experience I would want to impose on a novice user. While it's > > possible I have an unusual configuration, one key thing in an distro > > for novices has to be excellent hardware support out of the box. Am I > > missing something obvious here that would solve my problems? I am a typical ignorant homeuser but had no trouble installing Mdk9.1 and find Mkd 10 a dream. The only thing I think they should state clearly on their boxes is to use an external modem. A total newbie with no Windows ( I don´t run Windows but had an ext modem) would get really stuck with an internal modem only Maryse Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Sunday 14 November 2004 14:18, David Feldman wrote: > Despite the strong recommendations I've received for Mandrake as a good > novice-friendly distro, I've been unable even to get it to install. I'm > working with 10.1 Discovery on CD, on a Dell Dimension 2400 with a > 2.6GHz P4 and a Samsung SyncMaster 900NF monitor. So far I've > encountered the following problems: > > - The installer never starts in graphical mode. If I specify low-res > graphical mode that works. > - The installer never recognizes my USB devices (keyboards and mice). > - The installer doesn't automatically set up the X environment, so I > get an error message and have to go in and do that manually. > - The installer sometimes hangs entirely. Most recently it did this > after user account setup. > > - When I have completed install successfully, the system won't boot: It > hangs at Mounting USB Filesystem. If I hit control-C at that point it > proceeds but hangs again a little later, and can't be un-hung. > > I'm still searching for that perfect distro to recommend, but this > isn't an experience I would want to impose on a novice user. While it's > possible I have an unusual configuration, one key thing in an distro > for novices has to be excellent hardware support out of the box. Am I > missing something obvious here that would solve my problems? > > --Dave Try installing and booting with USB devices disconnected (apart from mouse and keyboard) There are some USB devices which have problems with the 2.6 kernel. You might also try when installing at the first screen hit F1 and at the prompt enter 'alt0' (or is it 'alt1') That will boot with the 2.4 kernel which is often better at detecting hardware. derek -- www.jennings.homelinux.net http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Sunday 14 November 2004 03:55 pm, David Feldman wrote: (The > > stuff was contributed by the legendary Stephen Kuhn. Evidently Apple Mail does not cite the previous author in replying to messages.) > > I repair/reconfig/support all kinds of MS Windows machines - in home > > and > > corporate environments - I can't begin to tell you how many times I've > > experienced the exact same thing - but with MS Windows (all versions). > > Believe me, I know. Installing a clean copy of Win XP on the same > machine is no picnic either...it's pretty unusable until I do some > driver installs. Gee, my Linux installations work right out of the box. Even when some tweaking is required, I've been able to get onto the web and go looking for help. And I've never had to dive around in drawers looking for old CDs and floppies. > BUT, (a) few users install Windows themselves, Perhaps not, but sooner or later they do reformat and reinstall -- sometimes frequently -- often at the suggestion of MS tech support. Perhaps 2000 and XP are better in this regard, but it has always been the standard fix for the Win9x series. > and (b) > those drivers are on a CD that came with the machine. In the words of the old song, it ain't necessarily so. You are assuming that (1) the user has not changed any hardware since the OS was loaded at the factory, (2) the component manufacturers have not updated any drivers since releasing it to either MS or the machine builder, and (3) the user has the driver CD -- it didn't get lost, the cat didn't eat it, the machine builder didn't include it, the drivers were installed in a special partition on the original HD which just went belly up. Although it's been several years since I last installed Windows, I remember that once I had the system up and running, the next task was to go to each hardware manufacturer's website and get the latest drivers. (More reboots, too. Oh joy.) Then, as each bit of software was installed, I had to get the latest updates for them. Bit of a pain, especially on dialup. Many hours of totally unproductive time. And now you know why I no longer have Windows installed here. > Granted, most > Linux distros get most or all of the hardware working without > additional drivers, but getting those last few is tricky. Yes, Linux hardware configuration _can_ get messy, but it gets just as nasty in Windows -- hence those websites that specialize in Windows drivers and DLLs. The biggest hassle with Linux is when the user is stuck with some POS that is designed to work exclusively with windows. Sometimes workarounds are available, but sometimes they are not. What to do? Damned if I know. > I had NO intention of suggesting Windows was better. Just this: I'd > like to convince some Windows users to switch to Linux. To do that, > short of buying new hardware, they have to install it. If I can say, > "install this distro and you should be fine," and they can get the CDs > and have a good install experience, they might switch. If the install > doesn't work, or gets scary, they'll abandon the idea. It's anything > but a level playing field, but for today's non-technical Windows users > to switch to Linux it has to be easy to install (including partitioning > an existing Windows box to be dual-boot) in a way that Windows itself > isn't. Some thoughts: (1) Give them a copy of Knoppix (or Mandrake Move or whatever...). It's not only a quick and easy way of determining any potential conflicts between their hardware and Linux, but it is an excellent introduction to Linux. (2) Does the term "install fest" ring a bell? Yeah, it's a pain schlepping a monster tower and the other hardware clear across town, but they'll get some very smart people to get them up and running. BTW, there is no reason that install fests have to be run by a group -- perhaps you could volunteer to get them started. (3) (Here I play the elitist card) Their unwillingness to either take a chance on something new, or to expend some effort learning something new could be an indication that Linux _is_not_ the solution for them. You might get their interest aroused, however, by pointing out how little time we Linuxers spend defragging or chasing viruses, or how a Linux distribution includes a whole lot more that just an OS with a few accessories. You might also point out how much free help is available to them -- including this mail list. > > I can't stress enough about knowing your hardware prior to booting up a > > GNU/linux distribution - and at least having enough familiarity with > > the > > devices connected to the machine so you can MAKE proper judgements and > > have your installation go accordingly. Atta boy, Stephen -- that's the number #1 clue to installing Linux. Ya gotta do your homework beforehand. > Again, that can only go so far if novice users are to switch over from > Windows. If their core drivers - video, input, primary storage - are > supp
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
I repair/reconfig/support all kinds of MS Windows machines - in home and corporate environments - I can't begin to tell you how many times I've experienced the exact same thing - but with MS Windows (all versions). Believe me, I know. Installing a clean copy of Win XP on the same machine is no picnic either...it's pretty unusable until I do some driver installs. BUT, (a) few users install Windows themselves, and (b) those drivers are on a CD that came with the machine. Granted, most Linux distros get most or all of the hardware working without additional drivers, but getting those last few is tricky. I had NO intention of suggesting Windows was better. Just this: I'd like to convince some Windows users to switch to Linux. To do that, short of buying new hardware, they have to install it. If I can say, "install this distro and you should be fine," and they can get the CDs and have a good install experience, they might switch. If the install doesn't work, or gets scary, they'll abandon the idea. It's anything but a level playing field, but for today's non-technical Windows users to switch to Linux it has to be easy to install (including partitioning an existing Windows box to be dual-boot) in a way that Windows itself isn't. I can't stress enough about knowing your hardware prior to booting up a GNU/linux distribution - and at least having enough familiarity with the devices connected to the machine so you can MAKE proper judgements and have your installation go accordingly. Again, that can only go so far if novice users are to switch over from Windows. If their core drivers - video, input, primary storage - are supported out of the box and they have to find drivers for one or two additional devices, that might be OK. But if they have to tinker just to get a base level of functionality they will think Linux is too hard at best, and broken at worst. Again, I'd like to find a distro that I can recommend across the board as a good option and figure that 90% of those who install it will get at least that base level of functionality. And in addition, it's not just that some devices aren't supported by Mandrake on my test system - I simply haven't been able to install it successfully, after multiple tries, while I have been able to install most other distros. Jumping in head first without testing the water is ALWAYS a bad idea - and true opinions cannot be rendered from such an experience. So does that mean that Linux simply isn't ready for end users unless they buy a machine with it pre-installed? Just for rote, I have better luck installing MDK on machines (all types, all configurations) than I do with MS Windows (Win98 thru WinXP) and a higher percentage of success with the MDK installs (oh, and I forgot to mention all the RH servers I have to deal with in my biz as well). Again, Windows users rarely install their own OS. Not trying to be overly negative, just really hoping I can find a distro that's ready for mass install and consumption since I like Linux. :-) --Dave Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 01:18, David Feldman wrote: > Despite the strong recommendations I've received for Mandrake as a good > novice-friendly distro, I've been unable even to get it to install. I'm > working with 10.1 Discovery on CD, on a Dell Dimension 2400 with a > 2.6GHz P4 and a Samsung SyncMaster 900NF monitor. So far I've > encountered the following problems: > > - The installer never starts in graphical mode. If I specify low-res > graphical mode that works. > - The installer never recognizes my USB devices (keyboards and mice). > - The installer doesn't automatically set up the X environment, so I > get an error message and have to go in and do that manually. > - The installer sometimes hangs entirely. Most recently it did this > after user account setup. > > - When I have completed install successfully, the system won't boot: It > hangs at Mounting USB Filesystem. If I hit control-C at that point it > proceeds but hangs again a little later, and can't be un-hung. > > I'm still searching for that perfect distro to recommend, but this > isn't an experience I would want to impose on a novice user. While it's > possible I have an unusual configuration, one key thing in an distro > for novices has to be excellent hardware support out of the box. Am I > missing something obvious here that would solve my problems? > > --Dave ...and the same can go both ways; I repair/reconfig/support all kinds of MS Windows machines - in home and corporate environments - I can't begin to tell you how many times I've experienced the exact same thing - but with MS Windows (all versions). I can't stress enough about knowing your hardware prior to booting up a GNU/linux distribution - and at least having enough familiarity with the devices connected to the machine so you can MAKE proper judgements and have your installation go accordingly. Jumping in head first without testing the water is ALWAYS a bad idea - and true opinions cannot be rendered from such an experience. Just for rote, I have better luck installing MDK on machines (all types, all configurations) than I do with MS Windows (Win98 thru WinXP) and a higher percentage of success with the MDK installs (oh, and I forgot to mention all the RH servers I have to deal with in my biz as well). BTW, if you really want to see if your machine is "happy" with GNU/linux, try downloading the Knoppix live CD and booting with that; it will either work or it won't work - and generally you can get an idea about how to configure or setup your sysetm in accordance to it (and even copy some of the configurations from Knoppix to make your "other" distro work properly). -- stephen kuhn mobile: 0410-728-389 illawarra and regional new south wales --- GNU/Linux/OpenSource Solutions and Alternatives 100% Microsoft Free and no viruses Registered Linux User # 267497 Windows: Where do you want to go today? MacOS: Where do you want to be tomorrow? Linux: Are you coming or what? --- "I heard one time you single-handedly defeated a hoard of rampaging of somethings in the something something system." -Fry Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
Despite the strong recommendations I've received for Mandrake as a good novice-friendly distro, I've been unable even to get it to install. I'm working with 10.1 Discovery on CD, on a Dell Dimension 2400 with a 2.6GHz P4 and a Samsung SyncMaster 900NF monitor. So far I've encountered the following problems: - The installer never starts in graphical mode. If I specify low-res graphical mode that works. - The installer never recognizes my USB devices (keyboards and mice). - The installer doesn't automatically set up the X environment, so I get an error message and have to go in and do that manually. - The installer sometimes hangs entirely. Most recently it did this after user account setup. - When I have completed install successfully, the system won't boot: It hangs at Mounting USB Filesystem. If I hit control-C at that point it proceeds but hangs again a little later, and can't be un-hung. I'm still searching for that perfect distro to recommend, but this isn't an experience I would want to impose on a novice user. While it's possible I have an unusual configuration, one key thing in an distro for novices has to be excellent hardware support out of the box. Am I missing something obvious here that would solve my problems? --Dave -- David A. Feldman User Interface Designer http://InterfaceThis.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
Op donderdag 11 november 2004 15:43, schreef David Feldman: > > Your hardware? Installer drops to text if it can't start X or there > > isn't > > enough RAM. > > Dell Dimension with 2.6GHz P4, 19" monitor...can normally run 1600x1200 > at 24-bit color in X, so technically it should be a problem. The > monitor is connected through a KVM switch, though. > > >> - If 10.1 Official might work better for my purposes, is there any way > >> to download it for eval purposes? > > > > Not as an ISO atm, unless you belong to club. The packages are > > available > > on the mirrors. > > Is there a way to do a network-based install or something that would > mimic the CD install? > > > 10.1 Discovery is sort of an introductory Linux, no compilers, > > development > > tools for 1 thing, and I think it has only KDE. > > OK. So where does one actually buy a copy of 10.1 Official? I didn't > see a product by that name. > > > It's supposed to be equivalent to 10.1 x86 download edition. > > Is that the Community or the Official? > > Thanks, > --Dave Hi, If you have a Dell with the following specification: | desktop | P4 2.6GHz | 512MB | Dell | Intel 865(mobo)| Intel i810(video) | Dell Optiplex GX260 on an external usb drive have look at this site: http://www.mandrake.tips.4.free.fr/review101.html He has a tip for a patch. Goodluck Bart S. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 01:00, David Feldman wrote: > I'm evaluating various Linux distros in order to recommend one to > novice users, particularly Windows switchers. Mandrake has been > recommended to me, especially since it can resize NTFS partitions. > > I downloaded 10.1 Community and tried to install but have been unable > to do so. First I got a text-based installer instead of graphical, and > the best I was able to achieve was a system that booted to a text login > prompt instead of GNOME or KDE. Then I tried the low-res graphical > install, but the best I was able to achieve there was that it would > hang at the post-install configuration. Any thoughts? > > Also, hoping for some clarification: > - How does 10.1 Community differ from 10.1 Official? > - If 10.1 Official might work better for my purposes, is there any way > to download it for eval purposes? > - How does 10.1 Official differ from 10.1 Discovery? > - How does 10.1 PPC relate to the various Intel versions? > > Thanks, > Dave Always research your hardware prior to installing any version of GNU/linux; proprietary (Windows Only) motherboards cause most of the major issues. If you have hardware that is acceptable by GNU/linux standards, the experience is quite a bit more enriching. -- stephen kuhn mobile: 0410-728-389 illawarra and regional new south wales --- GNU/Linux/OpenSource Solutions and Alternatives 100% Microsoft Free and no viruses Registered Linux User # 267497 Windows: Where do you want to go today? MacOS: Where do you want to be tomorrow? Linux: Are you coming or what? --- The angry man always thinks he can do more than he can. -- Albertano of Brescia Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Thursday 11 Nov 2004 14:43, David Feldman wrote: > > Dell Dimension with 2.6GHz P4, 19" monitor...can normally run 1600x1200 > at 24-bit color in X, so technically it should be a problem. The > monitor is connected through a KVM switch, though. > A kvm isn't a problem, assuming that it works with windows. The 24-bit colour might be, though. Some cards do have problems with that. If you can get an install you may then have to change it to 16-bit. > OK. So where does one actually buy a copy of 10.1 Official? I didn't > see a product by that name. > Bear in mind that it may be quicker to wait for the download edition to appear, if you are well back in the queue and have to wait for inter-continental delivery. If it can wait another week or two, I'd hang on. It's almost certainly not worth your while installing Community, unless it is so urgent that you can't afford to wait for Official. Community is rather like a late-beta, and feedback from the community generates bugfixes that are included in Official. If you can get the install started, use Expert mode for the partitioning tool, but apart from that you can probably just accept the default offering for almost everything. There are plenty of tools to make it easy to change things later. Near the end of the install there is a summary page, and you should look at each section there, under the Configure button. HTH Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
> > > It's supposed to be equivalent to 10.1 x86 download edition. > > > > Is that the Community or the Official? > > Basically official, except PPC is not a supported platform, so you > probably won't see it being referred to as an "official" edition anywhere. > The PPC port was a community driven project, not by Mandrakesoft, the > company. I haven't had much luck on getting MDK 10.1 PPC to work on my ol' PowerMac 7300/180 (Kernel freezes practically before it boots), but from what I've seen it seems like a good OS overall (Seems more lucrative than YellowDog, the Fedora-based port to Mac). ÂI plan on getting an iBook here pretty soon... the first thing I'll do is wipe the drive and dual-boot with OS X & MDK 10 :-P. ÂYeah, so I administer an x86 Linux server in real life but who says I can't have a little fun with my Mac toys now and again! Â Â >>I'd love to see Mandrake's take on the GNOME desktop. Whelp I prefer KDE. ÂJust make sure that you get something using something like the Crystal icon theme! ÂI know that it doesn't do much for productivity, but the only way to really get to love and admire your Linux system is to give it a spiffy desktop environment! :-P. ÂI run KDE with the Crystal SVG icon set and the Keramik theme. and luv it. ÂBeats the dull, practically 8-bit Windows XP looks any day. Â(Okay, so I'm obsessed, what can I say? ÂI like my Linux :-D) Cheers, Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ÂSigmaChi -- Registered Linux user #366862 This message was sent from a Microsoft-Free 750MHz Athlon system running SuSE Linux 9.1 (Kernel 2.6.5), multi-booted with RedHat 8.0 (Kernel 2.4.18; can't get Fedora to work!) and Debian 3.0 (Kernel 2.2.20). "Failure is not an option with Microsoft; it's bundled with the software!" "A Linux Only area ÂHappy bug hunting M$ clan, The time is here to FORGET that M$ Corp ever existed the world does not NEED M$ Corp the world hasÂNO USE for M$ Corp Âit is time to END M$ Corp" -snipped from the signature of Peter Nikolic Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, David Feldman wrote: > > Your hardware? Installer drops to text if it can't start X or there > > isn't > > enough RAM. > > Dell Dimension with 2.6GHz P4, 19" monitor...can normally run 1600x1200 > at 24-bit color in X, so technically it should be a problem. The > monitor is connected through a KVM switch, though. > OK, not an underrated machine then. That was my first suspicion. There is additional log information on the other VTs. > >> - If 10.1 Official might work better for my purposes, is there any way > >> to download it for eval purposes? > > > > Not as an ISO atm, unless you belong to club. The packages are > > available > > on the mirrors. > > Is there a way to do a network-based install or something that would > mimic the CD install? > Yes - nfs, ftp, http. This url is for cooker, but the techique still applies, just change to the correct repository: http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/CookerHowTo Someone else here might have a better link on the other Wiki. > > 10.1 Discovery is sort of an introductory Linux, no compilers, > > development > > tools for 1 thing, and I think it has only KDE. > > OK. So where does one actually buy a copy of 10.1 Official? I didn't > see a product by that name. > http://store.mandrakesoft.com/index.php?cPath=88&osCsid=2988c3794c8bbad98e06cd214eed3a98 I've heard download edition isos should be available for download after customers start receiving their boxed merchandise. > > It's supposed to be equivalent to 10.1 x86 download edition. > > Is that the Community or the Official? > Basically official, except PPC is not a supported platform, so you probably won't see it being referred to as an "official" edition anywhere. The PPC port was a community driven project, not by Mandrakesoft, the company. -- Stew Benedict Mandrakesoft --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
Mandrake would definately be one of the top ones for novice users, in my experience. I can sympathize with your installation problems, however, though I've never had the same with Linux. I had similar problems installing RedHat 8 on a certain box, but on others it installs flawlessly. I've had better luck with Mandrake overall. However, though it's a bit uncou for me to recommend it on a "Mandrake" list, for brand-new Linux users coming over from Windows I'd recommend SuSE. I haven't tried Mandrake 10 yet, so I don't know if it's easier than SuSE or not, but SuSE is definately one of the easiest to find your way around when fresh from the Windows world. Mandrake is a close second though, next being maybe Fedora, but I haven't tried all that many distros myself, so I'm not a real authority. Whatever you do don't try plopping a newbie in Debian. Nothing against Debian, I like Debian, all 14 discs of Debian, but a newbie is liable to give up and never touch Linux again for ten years before he even makes it past the base system installation (Okay, maybe a little exageration, but still, there's a point) Thanks for the response. I'm ultimately using all this info for an article I'm writing on computer security. Naturally I'm recommending against Windows and would like very much to have whatever alternative I recommend be a positive experience. I'm interested in seeing SuSE 9.2 as well - it's supposed to have a graphical installer with built-in NTFS resize, and some feedback during the resize about what portion of the Windows partition is free space. According to the SuSE folks there should be a downloadable version (I don't know if this will be full installation CDs or a net install) soon. If I can get Mandrake 10.1 working to evaluate it does sound promising, though the installer presents a little less in the way of explanatory text than I might like for novice users (I think the text is the same in the graphical and text installers?). Again, the NTFS resize is attractive (though no free space feedback), and I'd love to see Mandrake's take on the GNOME desktop. I've also heard Debian isn't a novice distro. However, the Debian-based Ubuntu distribution is promising, and I think might be a good newbie distro when its next release happens in April. I'm also considering Fedora, as you suggest...aside from the lack of Windows partition resize it seems like potentially a good option, and the install process is pretty polished. I'm also looking at Xandros (though I like any of these others better, it does go out of the way to be Windowsy, which may be attractive to switchers). PS: I might add that, though smaller in volume, I've found this Mandrake list much more helpfull and prompt on response than the higher-volume SuSE list. That's good to know and important, since presumably a newbie will have questions :-) Ultimately, the plethora of good distros is both a blessing and a curse. To a new user who wants to try Linux, it can be daunting. :-p Thanks, --Dave Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Thursday 11 November 2004 08:00, David Feldman wrote: > I'm evaluating various Linux distros in order to recommend one to > novice users, particularly Windows switchers. Mandrake has been > recommended to me, especially since it can resize NTFS partitions. > > I downloaded 10.1 Community and tried to install but have been unable > to do so. First I got a text-based installer instead of graphical, and > the best I was able to achieve was a system that booted to a text login > prompt instead of GNOME or KDE. Then I tried the low-res graphical > install, but the best I was able to achieve there was that it would > hang at the post-install configuration. Any thoughts? > > Also, hoping for some clarification: > - How does 10.1 Community differ from 10.1 Official? > - If 10.1 Official might work better for my purposes, is there any way > to download it for eval purposes? > - How does 10.1 Official differ from 10.1 Discovery? > - How does 10.1 PPC relate to the various Intel versions? Mandrake would definately be one of the top ones for novice users, in my experience. I can sympathize with your installation problems, however, though I've never had the same with Linux. I had similar problems installing RedHat 8 on a certain box, but on others it installs flawlessly. I've had better luck with Mandrake overall. However, though it's a bit uncou for me to recommend it on a "Mandrake" list, for brand-new Linux users coming over from Windows I'd recommend SuSE. I haven't tried Mandrake 10 yet, so I don't know if it's easier than SuSE or not, but SuSE is definately one of the easiest to find your way around when fresh from the Windows world. Mandrake is a close second though, next being maybe Fedora, but I haven't tried all that many distros myself, so I'm not a real authority. Whatever you do don't try plopping a newbie in Debian. Nothing against Debian, I like Debian, all 14 discs of Debian, but a newbie is liable to give up and never touch Linux again for ten years before he even makes it past the base system installation (Okay, maybe a little exageration, but still, there's a point) I recently got a friend started on Linux and burned him copies of Mandrake 9.2 and SuSE 9.1. Once I'd told him how to get the BIOS set to boot off CD, he had little trouble installing, and he'd never installed an OS before :-P. Mandrake might be better if you want them to get an idea of how vast the open source community is, or if they plan on running a server; to a Windows user 3 discs with thousands of programs seems impossibly huge. The only ISO's available for download from SuSE are for the "Personal" addition, which basically contains media, IM, web, and office software for a home system, which is still an amazingly large amount of software to a newbie. That's my two cents; Cheers, SigmaChi PS: I might add that, though smaller in volume, I've found this Mandrake list much more helpfull and prompt on response than the higher-volume SuSE list. -- Registered Linux user #366862 This message was sent from a Microsoft-Free 750MHz Athlon system running SuSE Linux 9.1 (Kernal 2.6.5) "Failure is not an option with Microsoft; it's bundled with the software!" Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
Your hardware? Installer drops to text if it can't start X or there isn't enough RAM. Dell Dimension with 2.6GHz P4, 19" monitor...can normally run 1600x1200 at 24-bit color in X, so technically it should be a problem. The monitor is connected through a KVM switch, though. - If 10.1 Official might work better for my purposes, is there any way to download it for eval purposes? Not as an ISO atm, unless you belong to club. The packages are available on the mirrors. Is there a way to do a network-based install or something that would mimic the CD install? 10.1 Discovery is sort of an introductory Linux, no compilers, development tools for 1 thing, and I think it has only KDE. OK. So where does one actually buy a copy of 10.1 Official? I didn't see a product by that name. It's supposed to be equivalent to 10.1 x86 download edition. Is that the Community or the Official? Thanks, --Dave Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, David Feldman wrote: > I'm evaluating various Linux distros in order to recommend one to > novice users, particularly Windows switchers. Mandrake has been > recommended to me, especially since it can resize NTFS partitions. > > I downloaded 10.1 Community and tried to install but have been unable > to do so. First I got a text-based installer instead of graphical, and > the best I was able to achieve was a system that booted to a text login > prompt instead of GNOME or KDE. Then I tried the low-res graphical > install, but the best I was able to achieve there was that it would > hang at the post-install configuration. Any thoughts? > Your hardware? Installer drops to text if it can't start X or there isn't enough RAM. > Also, hoping for some clarification: > - How does 10.1 Community differ from 10.1 Official? Official has many bugfixes based on Community feedback. > - If 10.1 Official might work better for my purposes, is there any way > to download it for eval purposes? Not as an ISO atm, unless you belong to club. The packages are available on the mirrors. > - How does 10.1 Official differ from 10.1 Discovery? 10.1 Discovery is sort of an introductory Linux, no compilers, development tools for 1 thing, and I think it has only KDE. > - How does 10.1 PPC relate to the various Intel versions? > It's supposed to be equivalent to 10.1 x86 download edition. -- Stew Benedict Mandrakesoft --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
[newbie] Mandrake for novice users?
I'm evaluating various Linux distros in order to recommend one to novice users, particularly Windows switchers. Mandrake has been recommended to me, especially since it can resize NTFS partitions. I downloaded 10.1 Community and tried to install but have been unable to do so. First I got a text-based installer instead of graphical, and the best I was able to achieve was a system that booted to a text login prompt instead of GNOME or KDE. Then I tried the low-res graphical install, but the best I was able to achieve there was that it would hang at the post-install configuration. Any thoughts? Also, hoping for some clarification: - How does 10.1 Community differ from 10.1 Official? - If 10.1 Official might work better for my purposes, is there any way to download it for eval purposes? - How does 10.1 Official differ from 10.1 Discovery? - How does 10.1 PPC relate to the various Intel versions? Thanks, Dave -- David A. Feldman User Interface Designer http://InterfaceThis.com Public PGP key at http://interfacethis.com/misc/pgpkey.txt Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
