Re[2]: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
Hello ajx, Sunday, June 8, 2003, 11:24:01 PM, you wrote: a> It isn't a leg-pull, Rikona, it's a key difference I now understand. -- Thank you for your help, rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
On Monday 09 Jun 2003 7:24 am, ajx wrote: > rikona wrote: > > TB>Hey, one thing I forgot to mention. On some hardware > > you'll TB> need to use the Left Alt key, the one on the right > > won't do. ;) > > > > Are you serious, or is this one of the list 'leg-pullers'? :-) If > > serious, what's the difference? > > I'm no doubt a bit late on this one. > > But the right Alt key is, on some (European ??) keyboards > hard-wired as (for entering the key codes of our > weird currencies and accented characters). If it is, it's often > labelled . > Ah - that explains it. I've known for years that there was a difference, but with a uk keyboard layout it has made little difference until we got the ¤ symbol. Now it all slips into place Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
rikona wrote: > TB>Hey, one thing I forgot to mention. On some hardware you'll > TB> need to use the Left Alt key, the one on the right won't do. ;) > > Are you serious, or is this one of the list 'leg-pullers'? :-) If > serious, what's the difference? I'm no doubt a bit late on this one. But the right Alt key is, on some (European ??) keyboards hard-wired as (for entering the key codes of our weird currencies and accented characters). If it is, it's often labelled . >From then on, it depends on the program. Some are happy if an Alt key has been pressed, no matter which, others make the distinction between Alt and Alt+Ctl .. And MS Word sometimes will and sometimes won't accept as the same as (its thoroughly Windows-compatible 'find again' keystroke). It isn't a leg-pull, Rikona, it's a key difference :-) John _ Envie de discuter en "live" avec vos amis ? Télécharger MSN Messenger http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/m la 1ère messagerie instantanée de France Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
On Wednesday 04 Jun 2003 7:28 am, Richard Urwin wrote: > On Tuesday 03 Jun 2003 8:56 pm, Anne Wilson wrote: > > Not a leg-pull. I can't tell you what the difference is, but it > > exists. For instance, on my keyboard, if I use Rt-Alt+4 I get ¤, > > but if I use left-Alt + 4 I get nothing at all. > > IIUC, the right Alt, "Alt Gr" is used to construct accented > characters etc. in locales that require it. In my (UK) locale it > produces different characters, but not accents. I think that's because the EN character set doesn't have them in the first set (the second half of the set is not normally accessed). I don't know anything about using more than one character set, but some here do that. If you need it they can probably point you at the answer. Meanwhile, if you only need it occasionally, and in word processed documents, KWord can accept the Alt-numberpad characters from the extended set. HTH Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
On Wednesday 04 Jun 2003 7:49 am, Robin Turner wrote: > Margot wrote: > > Anne Wilson wrote: >> > >> Not a leg-pull. I can't tell you what the difference is, but it > >> exists. For instance, on my keyboard, if I use Rt-Alt+4 I get > >> €, but if I use left-Alt + 4 I get nothing at all. > >> > >> Anne > > > > On some keyboards the left Alt key is marked "Alt" and the right > > Alt is marked "Alt Gr". I have no idea what the "Gr" stands for, > > but I assume that the two keys were marked differently for a good > > reason! > > I'd always assumed it stood for "graphic". On my keyboard I need > to use it to get symbols like @, #, \ etc. (Turkish has more > letters than English, so there aren't enough keys to go round). > IIRC it stood for 'grey' - it was darker on early keyboards. Just a way of referencing it of course, it doesn't give any clue as to what the true difference is. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
Margot wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 03 Jun 2003 7:22 pm, rikona wrote: Hello Tom, Friday, May 30, 2003, 7:20:18 AM, you wrote: TB> On Thursday May 29 2003 08:01 pm, rikona wrote: TB> I've never needed to use Alt+SysRqr+s-e-i-u-b, but it's a good TB> thing to look up the process and remember that goofy phrase ;) Goofy, but nice to know about. :-) TB>Hey, one thing I forgot to mention. On some hardware you'll need TB> to use the Left Alt key, the one on the right won't do. ;) Are you serious, or is this one of the list 'leg-pullers'? :-) If serious, what's the difference? Not a leg-pull. I can't tell you what the difference is, but it exists. For instance, on my keyboard, if I use Rt-Alt+4 I get €, but if I use left-Alt + 4 I get nothing at all. Anne On some keyboards the left Alt key is marked "Alt" and the right Alt is marked "Alt Gr". I have no idea what the "Gr" stands for, but I assume that the two keys were marked differently for a good reason! I'd always assumed it stood for "graphic". On my keyboard I need to use it to get symbols like @, #, \ etc. (Turkish has more letters than English, so there aren't enough keys to go round). Sir Robin -- "A Perl script is "correct" if it gets the job done before your boss fires you." - Larry Wall Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
On Tuesday 03 Jun 2003 8:56 pm, Anne Wilson wrote: > Not a leg-pull. I can't tell you what the difference is, but it > exists. For instance, on my keyboard, if I use Rt-Alt+4 I get ¤, but > if I use left-Alt + 4 I get nothing at all. IIUC, the right Alt, "Alt Gr" is used to construct accented characters etc. in locales that require it. In my (UK) locale it produces different characters, but not accents. -- Richard Urwin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
Anne Wilson wrote: On Tuesday 03 Jun 2003 7:22 pm, rikona wrote: Hello Tom, Friday, May 30, 2003, 7:20:18 AM, you wrote: TB> On Thursday May 29 2003 08:01 pm, rikona wrote: TB> I've never needed to use Alt+SysRqr+s-e-i-u-b, but it's a good TB> thing to look up the process and remember that goofy phrase ;) Goofy, but nice to know about. :-) TB>Hey, one thing I forgot to mention. On some hardware you'll need TB> to use the Left Alt key, the one on the right won't do. ;) Are you serious, or is this one of the list 'leg-pullers'? :-) If serious, what's the difference? Not a leg-pull. I can't tell you what the difference is, but it exists. For instance, on my keyboard, if I use Rt-Alt+4 I get €, but if I use left-Alt + 4 I get nothing at all. Anne On some keyboards the left Alt key is marked "Alt" and the right Alt is marked "Alt Gr". I have no idea what the "Gr" stands for, but I assume that the two keys were marked differently for a good reason! Margot Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
On Tuesday 03 Jun 2003 7:22 pm, rikona wrote: > Hello Tom, > > Friday, May 30, 2003, 7:20:18 AM, you wrote: > > TB> On Thursday May 29 2003 08:01 pm, rikona wrote: > >> TB> I've never needed to use Alt+SysRqr+s-e-i-u-b, but it's a > >> good TB> thing to look up the process and remember that goofy > >> phrase ;) > >> > >> Goofy, but nice to know about. :-) > > TB>Hey, one thing I forgot to mention. On some hardware you'll > need TB> to use the Left Alt key, the one on the right won't do. ;) > > Are you serious, or is this one of the list 'leg-pullers'? :-) If > serious, what's the difference? Not a leg-pull. I can't tell you what the difference is, but it exists. For instance, on my keyboard, if I use Rt-Alt+4 I get ¤, but if I use left-Alt + 4 I get nothing at all. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[8]: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
Hello Tom, Friday, May 30, 2003, 7:20:18 AM, you wrote: TB> On Thursday May 29 2003 08:01 pm, rikona wrote: >> TB> I've never needed to use Alt+SysRqr+s-e-i-u-b, but it's a >> good TB> thing to look up the process and remember that goofy >> phrase ;) >> >> Goofy, but nice to know about. :-) TB>Hey, one thing I forgot to mention. On some hardware you'll need TB> to use the Left Alt key, the one on the right won't do. ;) Are you serious, or is this one of the list 'leg-pullers'? :-) If serious, what's the difference? -- Thank you, rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[2]: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
Hello Charlie, Wednesday, May 28, 2003, 8:04:19 AM, you wrote: C> Here's one brief 'n' basic quickie type reference to keyboard C> shortcuts. Thanks for the pointers. C> bring a lunch when you click the new "Howtos English" (or whatever C> installed your language is) in the documentation menu. You'll be C> there a *lonnng time.* I see what you mean. :-) -- Thank you, rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[6]: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
Hello Tom, Wednesday, May 28, 2003, 8:02:38 AM, you wrote: TB> I've never needed to use Alt+SysRqr+s-e-i-u-b, but it's a good TB> thing to look up the process and remember that goofy phrase ;) Goofy, but nice to know about. :-) -- Thank you, rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[4]: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
Hello Derek, Wednesday, May 28, 2003, 2:20:10 AM, you wrote: >> Is there a 'master list' of MD keystrokes I could get (not from the >> MD box, for times like this)? DJ> http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/doc/90c/en/Starter.html/troubleshooting-system-freeze.html I saw this, and on a web page I also saw this with a note that there are 'many more' besides these. I've seen a few additional shortcuts, so it does seem as though there are more. -- Thank you, rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[4]: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
Hello FemmeFatale, Wednesday, May 28, 2003, 2:11:08 AM, you wrote: F> Other than that... I dunno. Got my own problems... sigh. Fubared F> my own installation in record time. Sorry I'm not much help. Even so, I appreciate your response. -- Thank you, rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[5]: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
Hello bascule, Tuesday, May 27, 2003, 11:13:42 PM, you wrote: b> to get the 'process bar' back press alt-f2 and type 'kicker', this b> should bring back the panel at the bottom That would have helped a lot - thanks. -- Thank you, rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[3]: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
Hello FemmeFatale, Tuesday, May 27, 2003, 10:25:02 PM, you wrote: F> See Attachment for explanations. This might help if I do get a freeze. Nice to know. -- Thank you, rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
quoting rikona's missive of Tuesday 27 May 2003 08:02 pm: > Hello Dennis, > > Tuesday, May 27, 2003, 6:36:31 PM, you wrote: > > DM> I'm not sure what happened but you can try hittine ctl-alt-F6 and > DM> that should take you to a console screen where you can type > DM> "reboot". There is probably a more elegant way to recover, so > DM> anyone who knows jump right in here. HTH > > Thank you [recovering from typical newbie panic] :-)) > > Elegant or not, it worked OK. It rebooted to the previous state, not > where I was at the 'oops'. Lost some work, I guess, but no disaster. Hi; Here's one brief 'n' basic quickie type reference to keyboard shortcuts. http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/shortcuts.html The Linux Newbie Administrator's Guide offers more under the 5.1 heading. Just scroll down from the linked page; http://linux-newbie.sunsite.dk/lnag_commands.html and a brief list from Red Hat docs: http://linuxwww.epfl.ch/Doc/rh-9/rhl-gsg-en-9/keyboard-shortcuts.html That should get you started; but if you really want to suffer information overload, open a terminal su (type su then type your root password) then type urpmi rute and hit enter. If you have a contrib source set up you'll get a _very_ complete documentation project installed, but bring a lunch when you click the new "Howtos English" (or whatever installed your language is) in the documentation menu. You'll be there a *lonnng time.* Have fun. Charlie -- Edmonton,AB,Canada Registered user 244963 at http://counter.li.org Mandrake 9.1 Bamboo (cooked) 08:40:35 up 15 days, 43 min, 2 users, load average: 0.17, 0.16, 0.11 First Law of Procrastination: Procrastination shortens the job and places the responsibility for its termination on someone else (i.e., the authority who imposed the deadline). Fifth Law of Procrastination: Procrastination avoids boredom; one never has the feeling that there is nothing important to do. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Re[4]: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
On Tuesday May 27 2003 10:43 pm, rikona wrote: > Hello Dennis, > > Tuesday, May 27, 2003, 7:36:50 PM, you wrote: > > DM> I'm not sure where to look, I tried a couple of man pages and > no DM> luck. Try a google search on linux keyboard shortcuts or > DM> variations thereof. > > I rummaged around a bit, but couldn't find a very complete list. > On one page there was a reference to 'many more' shortcuts but no > pointer to where. :-) Google "raising skinny elephants is utterly boring" :) But that's a last resort option(s) for shutting down safely when the system in borked. As was already suggested, most of the time all that's needed is to logout of X, and then relog in. If this can't be done by your normal means (clicking on logout), then Ctrl+Alt+Backspace will kill the X server, or halt or reboot the system from there. I've never needed to use Alt+SysRqr+s-e-i-u-b, but it's a good thing to look up the process and remember that goofy phrase ;) -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Re[2]: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
On Wednesday 28 May 2003 3:05 am, rikona wrote: > Hello Joeb, > > Tuesday, May 27, 2003, 6:58:13 PM, you wrote: > > J> ctl-alt-backspace will restart the window manager. That might be > J> all that is needed instead of a complete reboot. > > Thanks very much for the tip. Maybe should have waited, but already > rebooted. > > Both replies used key strokes. Is there a 'master list' of MD > keystrokes I could get (not from the MD box, for times like this)? http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/doc/90c/en/Starter.html/troubleshooting-system-freeze.html -- -- www.jennings.homelinux.net Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[3]: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
At 10:58 PM 5/27/2003 -0700, you wrote: Hello FemmeFatale, Tuesday, May 27, 2003, 10:25:02 PM, you wrote: F> See Attachment for explanations. Thanks for the notes. I was looking for a complete list, since one of the web pages mentioned there were many others. Dunno where it is though. :-)) Actually, the sys was not frozen - it was responding quite well. The problem was that about a dozen previously open processes on the screen seemed to have disappeared, along with the 'process' bar at the bottom of the screen. This happened when MD 'woke up' after a mouse move to bring it to life. Any ideas what happened to those dozen processes, and the work I was doing in them(also lost)? -- Thank you, rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sounds like some app went nuts & Just froze your processes. IE: Took up 100% cpu usage. Happens sometimes. Kill X after saving everything to buffers & Stuff..lord i shouldn't write this half-corked... and you should be able to restart X easily enough. Other than that... I dunno. Got my own problems... sigh. Fubared my own installation in record time. Sorry I'm not much help. - FemmeFatale Good Decisions You boss Made: "We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts." - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[4]: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
Hello Dennis, Tuesday, May 27, 2003, 7:36:50 PM, you wrote: DM> I'm not sure where to look, I tried a couple of man pages and no DM> luck. Try a google search on linux keyboard shortcuts or DM> variations thereof. I rummaged around a bit, but couldn't find a very complete list. On one page there was a reference to 'many more' shortcuts but no pointer to where. :-) -- Thank you, rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Re[2]: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
On Tuesday 27 May 2003 09:05 pm, rikona wrote: > Hello Joeb, > > Tuesday, May 27, 2003, 6:58:13 PM, you wrote: > > J> ctl-alt-backspace will restart the window manager. That might be > J> all that is needed instead of a complete reboot. > > Thanks very much for the tip. Maybe should have waited, but already > rebooted. > > Both replies used key strokes. Is there a 'master list' of MD > keystrokes I could get (not from the MD box, for times like this)? I'm not sure where to look, I tried a couple of man pages and no luck. The keyboard shortcuts and keystrokes are listed in "Linux in a Nutshell" by O'Reilly Publishing. This is an excellent book with a ton of info on all aspect of linux that are applicable to all of the OSes using linux. Many command line commands etc. Try a google search on linux keyboard shortcuts or variations thereof. HTH -- Dennis M. linux user #180842 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[2]: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
Hello Joeb, Tuesday, May 27, 2003, 6:58:13 PM, you wrote: J> ctl-alt-backspace will restart the window manager. That might be J> all that is needed instead of a complete reboot. Thanks very much for the tip. Maybe should have waited, but already rebooted. Both replies used key strokes. Is there a 'master list' of MD keystrokes I could get (not from the MD box, for times like this)? -- Thank you, rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[2]: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
Hello Dennis, Tuesday, May 27, 2003, 6:36:31 PM, you wrote: DM> I'm not sure what happened but you can try hittine ctl-alt-F6 and DM> that should take you to a console screen where you can type DM> "reboot". There is probably a more elegant way to recover, so DM> anyone who knows jump right in here. HTH Thank you [recovering from typical newbie panic] :-)) Elegant or not, it worked OK. It rebooted to the previous state, not where I was at the 'oops'. Lost some work, I guess, but no disaster. -- Thank you, rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
On Tue, 27 May 2003 20:36:31 -0500 Dennis Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tuesday 27 May 2003 08:30 pm, rikona wrote: > > Hello, > > > > As I was reading email on another comp, Mandrake 'went to sleep' as it > > does after a short time. It has been doing this quite often, without > > incident. When I just moved the mouse to 'awaken' MD, all the many > > things I had open are gone, including the 'process' bar (or whatever > > it's called) at the bottom of the screen. In a root shell, ps lists > > essentially nothing. > > > > What happened? It also occured to me that I don't know how to exit > > from this safely, either. :-( What shell command is used to shut down > > MD safely after an 'incident'? > I'm not sure what happened but you can try hittine ctl-alt-F6 and that should > take you to a console screen where you can type "reboot". There is probably a > more elegant way to recover, so anyone who knows jump right in here. HTH > -- > Dennis M. linux user #180842 > > ctl-alt-backspace will restart the window manager. That might be all that is needed instead of a complete reboot. Joeb Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Oops - what happened?
On Tuesday 27 May 2003 08:30 pm, rikona wrote: > Hello, > > As I was reading email on another comp, Mandrake 'went to sleep' as it > does after a short time. It has been doing this quite often, without > incident. When I just moved the mouse to 'awaken' MD, all the many > things I had open are gone, including the 'process' bar (or whatever > it's called) at the bottom of the screen. In a root shell, ps lists > essentially nothing. > > What happened? It also occured to me that I don't know how to exit > from this safely, either. :-( What shell command is used to shut down > MD safely after an 'incident'? I'm not sure what happened but you can try hittine ctl-alt-F6 and that should take you to a console screen where you can type "reboot". There is probably a more elegant way to recover, so anyone who knows jump right in here. HTH -- Dennis M. linux user #180842 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] Oops - what happened?
Hello, As I was reading email on another comp, Mandrake 'went to sleep' as it does after a short time. It has been doing this quite often, without incident. When I just moved the mouse to 'awaken' MD, all the many things I had open are gone, including the 'process' bar (or whatever it's called) at the bottom of the screen. In a root shell, ps lists essentially nothing. What happened? It also occured to me that I don't know how to exit from this safely, either. :-( What shell command is used to shut down MD safely after an 'incident'? -- Thanks for your help in this time of need :-), rikona mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
