Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
On Wednesday 25 Dec 2002 12:05 am, Stephen Kuhn wrote: > On Wed, 2002-12-25 at 10:39, Erik Farnsworth wrote: > > And anyone remembering Windows 3.0, should also remember GPFs. They > > were the main feature of the new desktop BG ripped off from Apple's > > Macintosh. Too bad his developers didn't write the code for Windows 3.0 > > as well as they did the code for the Mac desktop. Also, anyone who > > remembers Windows 3.0 probably won't use 'intuitive' in a sentence > > describing it, eitherROFLWTIME > > Windows 3.0 ran really great under OS/2 and under Desqview/X - but you > couldn't run a BBS with it - so it went in the trash. OS/2 was great - > cuz if the progman.exe died, it was just a program to kill - same with > any Windows program that ran separately from Windows via the > Presentation Manager. AND, the card games were at least > nicer...(Seahaven)...Desqview/X was cute cuz you could run the 16 MS-DOS > term sessions for the BBS whilst doing other DOS related things...(like > playing door-games locally or chatting w/ those online). I remember my friendly vendor telling me that he was greatly impressed by OS/2, much better than windows, but that with IBM marketing OS/2 and MS marketing windows it didn't stand a chance. Lessons to be learned here! > > > Most of the time, I just booted into DOS and let Windows 3.0 sit idle. > > That way I could honestly say I didn't have any problems with it > grin> I stuck with dos until I was forced into 3.1 Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
On Tuesday 24 Dec 2002 8:30 pm, Stephen Kuhn wrote: > On Wed, 2002-12-25 at 03:31, ET wrote: > > (Quick, what MS windows release number was out in 1990?) > > 1.0 > (End of 8-in-1) > > ...then there was OS/2 and Desqview and Desqview/X and PcShell, and > Quickmenu, Xtree, Norton Commander, DrDOS... That brings back memories. I didn't use windows at all in those days, but used to use Desqview to run two copies of my Sage accounts program, so that I could work in the accounting section but get quick lookups in the stock section. Ah, happy days. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
Erik Farnsworth wrote: On Tue, 2002-12-24 at 14:12, Robin Turner wrote: http://members.fortunecity.com/pcmuseum/windows.htm - the rest of the site is pretty interesting too.) Though I noticed there is a shameless plug for Lindows at the bottom of the page! And anyone remembering Windows 3.0, should also remember GPFs. They were the main feature of the new desktop BG ripped off from Apple's Macintosh. Too bad his developers didn't write the code for Windows 3.0 as well as they did the code for the Mac desktop. Also, anyone who remembers Windows 3.0 probably won't use 'intuitive' in a sentence describing it, eitherROFLWTIME Speaking of intuition ... One of my colleagues worked in a publishing house back in the 1980s. When they switched from DOS to Windows, many employees complained that they had to use this weird mouse thingy. "Why can't we just type the name of the program?" they cried. Similarly, as late as 1992, I spent ages teaching our school secretary how to use Windows 3.1 - I actually had to put her hand on the mouse, put my hand over her hand, and move it around. If any one had walked in, it would have been really embarrassing. Sir Robin -- "Do unto others what you would like others to do unto you. And have fun doing it." - Linus Torvalds Robin Turner IDMYO, Bilkent University Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
On Wed, 2002-12-25 at 10:39, Erik Farnsworth wrote: > > And anyone remembering Windows 3.0, should also remember GPFs. They > were the main feature of the new desktop BG ripped off from Apple's > Macintosh. Too bad his developers didn't write the code for Windows 3.0 > as well as they did the code for the Mac desktop. Also, anyone who > remembers Windows 3.0 probably won't use 'intuitive' in a sentence > describing it, eitherROFLWTIME > Windows 3.0 ran really great under OS/2 and under Desqview/X - but you couldn't run a BBS with it - so it went in the trash. OS/2 was great - cuz if the progman.exe died, it was just a program to kill - same with any Windows program that ran separately from Windows via the Presentation Manager. AND, the card games were at least nicer...(Seahaven)...Desqview/X was cute cuz you could run the 16 MS-DOS term sessions for the BBS whilst doing other DOS related things...(like playing door-games locally or chatting w/ those online). > > Most of the time, I just booted into DOS and let Windows 3.0 sit idle. > That way I could honestly say I didn't have any problems with it grin> -- Wed Dec 25 11:00:00 EST 2002 11:00am up 1:45, 3 users, load average: 0.29, 0.22, 0.25 .o0 linux user:267497 0o. |____ | kühn media australia | / \ /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | .\__/ || | | | | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kühn | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | |/ ._/ |"| | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | ;"""/ / | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389 | ' `-`' " " | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU Coralament*Best Grötens*Liebe Grüße*Best Regards*Elkorajn Salutojn Fairy Tale, n.: A horror story to prepare children for the newspapers. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
On Tue, 2002-12-24 at 14:12, Robin Turner wrote: > > >> As an experienced Windows user with 12 years under my belt, > > (Quick, what MS windows release number was out in 1990?) > > Hey, I guessed right - 3.0! ( > http://members.fortunecity.com/pcmuseum/windows.htm - the rest of the > site is pretty interesting too.) > > I was still using an Atari 1024 then. And anyone remembering Windows 3.0, should also remember GPFs. They were the main feature of the new desktop BG ripped off from Apple's Macintosh. Too bad his developers didn't write the code for Windows 3.0 as well as they did the code for the Mac desktop. Also, anyone who remembers Windows 3.0 probably won't use 'intuitive' in a sentence describing it, eitherROFLWTIME Most of the time, I just booted into DOS and let Windows 3.0 sit idle. That way I could honestly say I didn't have any problems with it > Sir Robin -- Erik Linux User 288105 @ http://counter.li.org = Bill who? ... Micro what? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
At 10:12 PM 12/24/2002 +0200, you wrote: ET wrote: As a newbie trying linux for the first time, I find it very very frustrating. Nothing is intuitive, and even basic text editors like vi or emacs are difficult to use. I found myself wishing for good old MS-DOS edit. I suggest you install "jed" then, for your text editor Or use kwrite in X. vi and emacs are not "basic text editors", they are weapons of mass destruction. no machine in "intuitive" it has been said only the nipple is "intuitive". An in-animate object (like a machine) can only be more or less intutive than something else. "The only intuitive interface is a nipple - after that you have to learn it" was one of the best sigs I've seen. Any idea who originally said it. Getting off-topic somewhat, the BBC's "Click Online" (a newbie-friendly program, which is also relatively Linux-friendly) did a feature on usability. The presenter asked a usability expert why using a computer wasn't as intuitive as driving a car. Hell, if all computer users had to have the same number of lessons before logging on as drivers do to get their licence, a lot of Help Desk employees would be out of work, and kernel-hacking would be the equivalent of parallel parking. Sir Robin Boy do I agree with all of this! Esp. the vi & emacs statement. :) The "nipple" Comment is too easy to hit on :P I'll leave that & the rest alone, I might get overly cantankerous. - FemmeFatale Good Decisions You boss Made: "We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts." - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
ET wrote: As a newbie trying linux for the first time, I find it very very frustrating. Nothing is intuitive, and even basic text editors like vi or emacs are difficult to use. I found myself wishing for good old MS-DOS edit. I suggest you install "jed" then, for your text editor Or use kwrite in X. vi and emacs are not "basic text editors", they are weapons of mass destruction. As an experienced Windows user with 12 years under my belt, (Quick, what MS windows release number was out in 1990?) Hey, I guessed right - 3.0! ( http://members.fortunecity.com/pcmuseum/windows.htm - the rest of the site is pretty interesting too.) I was still using an Atari 1024 then. I think I can safely say that linux will never gain full acceptance with the majoity of computer users in it's current state. Nothing is intuitive. no machine in "intuitive" it has been said only the nipple is "intuitive". An in-animate object (like a machine) can only be more or less intutive than something else. "The only intuitive interface is a nipple - after that you have to learn it" was one of the best sigs I've seen. Any idea who originally said it. Getting off-topic somewhat, the BBC's "Click Online" (a newbie-friendly program, which is also relatively Linux-friendly) did a feature on usability. The presenter asked a usability expert why using a computer wasn't as intuitive as driving a car. Hell, if all computer users had to have the same number of lessons before logging on as drivers do to get their licence, a lot of Help Desk employees would be out of work, and kernel-hacking would be the equivalent of parallel parking. Sir Robin -- "Do unto others what you would like others to do unto you. And have fun doing it." - Linus Torvalds Robin Turner IDMYO, Bilkent University Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
On Wed, 2002-12-25 at 03:31, ET wrote: > (Quick, what MS windows release number was out in 1990?) > 1.0 (End of 8-in-1) ...then there was OS/2 and Desqview and Desqview/X and PcShell, and Quickmenu, Xtree, Norton Commander, DrDOS... -- Wed Dec 25 07:25:00 EST 2002 7:25am up 1:46, 4 users, load average: 0.53, 0.26, 0.19 .o0 linux user:267497 0o. |____ | kühn media australia | / \ /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | .\__/ || | | | | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kühn | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | |/ ._/ |"| | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | ;"""/ / | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389 | ' `-`' " " | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU Coralament*Best Grötens*Liebe Grüße*Best Regards*Elkorajn Salutojn We have nowhere else to go... this is all we have. -- Margaret Mead Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
> As a newbie trying linux for the first time, I find it very very > frustrating. Nothing is intuitive, and even basic text editors like vi or > emacs are difficult to use. I found myself wishing for good old MS-DOS > edit. I suggest you install "jed" then, for your text editor > As an experienced Windows user with 12 years under my belt, (Quick, what MS windows release number was out in 1990?) > I think I can > safely say that linux will never gain full acceptance with the majoity of > computer users in it's current state. Nothing is intuitive. no machine in "intuitive" it has been said only the nipple is "intuitive". An in-animate object (like a machine) can only be more or less intutive than something else. > Michael Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
On Tue, 2002-12-24 at 08:49, FemmeFatale wrote: > i'm amazed how this threads gone off course :P > > heh so does anyone have a clue how to get a wireless logitech to work with > 9.0? :) > > - > FemmeFatale > Fdisk, repartition, re-install. (g) -- Tue Dec 24 12:20:00 EST 2002 12:20pm up 15:19, 5 users, load average: 0.51, 0.33, 0.12 .o0 linux user:267497 0o. |____ | kühn media australia | / \ /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | .\__/ || | | | | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kühn | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | |/ ._/ |"| | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | ;"""/ / | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389 | ' `-`' " " | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU Coralament*Best Grötens*Liebe Grüße*Best Regards*Elkorajn Salutojn The best things in life are for a fee. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
At 07:39 PM 12/23/2002 +, you wrote: On Monday 23 December 2002 03:52, Michael Paul wrote: > Oh yeah, and what's the unix command > for copy? 'cp ' 'cp --help' for the syntax 'man cp' for the manual Also try whatis, whereis or locate, followed by a command or program name. Richard Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com i'm amazed how this threads gone off course :P heh so does anyone have a clue how to get a wireless logitech to work with 9.0? :) - FemmeFatale Good Decisions You boss Made: "We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts." - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
On Monday 23 December 2002 03:52, Michael Paul wrote: > Oh yeah, and what's the unix command > for copy? 'cp ' 'cp --help' for the syntax 'man cp' for the manual Also try whatis, whereis or locate, followed by a command or program name. Richard Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
On Monday 23 Dec 2002 6:20 am, Todd Slater wrote: > On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 05:54:46 + > Anne Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > And then again, we forget that windows has brainwashed us into > > automatically doing things their way - brainlessly. For instance, under > > 9.0 I play Yukon during my lunchbreak, and it crashes fairly often, > > usually after a double-lick to remove a card. For several weeks I > > simply told myself that it was unimportant, let it crash. Then the other > > day I had a revelation! Why should I? Cards can be dragged to the pile > > instead of double-clicked - and there is no time penalty as in the > > windows version. Problem solved - no more crashes. Hardly > > world-shattering, but it shows how windows learned-behaviour sometimes > > stops our brain working at all. :) > > > > Anne > > Are you using pysol, or another game? Pysol never crashes on me, on the > few games I've played (including Yukon). AisleRiot - and it never crashed under 8.2. This and kaddressbook are the only things that have been worse for me under 9.0 - and many things so much better - so I'm not complaining. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
On 23 Dec 2002 17:38:55 +1100 Stephen Kuhn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 2002-12-23 at 17:22, Todd Slater wrote: > > > BTW, she is 73 years old. > > > > Todd > > Does she date? (g) > Hey, watch it! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
- Original Message - From: "erylon hines" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?) > Download and install Pine. (It used to be included with the Mandrake disks, > but due to some issues with the license, it no longer is. However, it is > still free). The editor that comes with Pine is called "pico", and it is > extremely easy to use, with no learning curve whatsoever. The trouble with > vi and the console version of emacs is that you must learn the hotkeys. Now, > IMO, these are definitely worth learning, but if you only edit occasionally, > pico is the ticket. I downloaded Nano as previously suggested, and it's a lot easier. But, there are a few commands that I miss. Oh yeah, and what's the unix command for copy?!? Heh.. I wanted to make a backup of the file I wanted to edit, so out of habit I did copy and got no copy. LOL.. so I had to load the file into nano, and save it under a different filename, then edit it. Of course, I completely screwed it up and got no more KDE on boot. Good thing I backed it up. heh. > This ain't always true. I just installed W2K pro and Mandrake 8.2--dual > boot. W2K missed my sound card (SB Live Value), and put my external modem on > Com 3, then gave me an error message that I didn't have enough resources for > the serial port. Then I had to install my Nvidia Gforce drivers because it > missed the card and gave me a 640 x 480 generic. Got my network card right > though. Mandrake got everything right, except for my Sandisk card reader (I > had to edit my fstab and change the reader from /dev/sdb to /dev/sdb1). Both > systems got my zip correct. I was speaking in general terms, and you're right, it isn't always that simple. Assuming your hardware was produced *before* the version of windows you are trying to install, etc, etc.. > That's o.k. But, both systems have their quirks, and both require that you > learn how they work. The biggest problem with Linux is manufacturer's not > releasing specs/drivers for their hardware, not that Linux is difficult to > use (my wife uses it exclusively, now, so it must be pretty easy). This > system does require that the user pay attention to what hardware is being > installed, but there really are plenty of alternatives that will be auto > recognized. That attention is the price paid for not having to keep > anti-virus software up-to-date, and for the low cost of the distributions, I > guess. Very true and since I know nothing about Linux, it makes the learning curve very steep. I'm used to not having to read docs and being able to figure out how to make things work due to my familiarity with Windows. Plus, of course, Windows and Windows hardware documentation is rather lacking. Since I have none with linux, it frustrates and humbles me. I have run into the jerks on irc help channels and such, but fortunately for me, I usually manage to phrase my questions in such a way as to convey that I am not an idiot, just ignorant. So, I have found quite a few people who have helped me, including people from this list, to whom I am thankful. Michael Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
On Sunday 22 December 2002 01:25 pm, you wrote: > As a newbie trying linux for the first time, I find it very very > frustrating. Nothing is intuitive, and even basic text editors like vi or > emacs are difficult to use. I found myself wishing for good old MS-DOS > edit. Download and install Pine. (It used to be included with the Mandrake disks, but due to some issues with the license, it no longer is. However, it is still free). The editor that comes with Pine is called "pico", and it is extremely easy to use, with no learning curve whatsoever. The trouble with vi and the console version of emacs is that you must learn the hotkeys. Now, IMO, these are definitely worth learning, but if you only edit occasionally, pico is the ticket. e. > > As an experienced Windows user with 12 years under my belt, I think I can > safely say that linux will never gain full acceptance with the majoity of > computer users in it's current state. Nothing is intuitive. Even adding a > new device is a royal pain. First, you have to know which file to edit, > where to find it and then try to figure out the cryptic messages within > while consulting huge manuals. The general public will never go for it. > Windows plug and play works wonderfully. There are no text files to edit. > Things just work. Plug in a scanner, windows detects, feed it the cdrom, > and in about 5 minutes you are using it. Try that with linux. This ain't always true. I just installed W2K pro and Mandrake 8.2--dual boot. W2K missed my sound card (SB Live Value), and put my external modem on Com 3, then gave me an error message that I didn't have enough resources for the serial port. Then I had to install my Nvidia Gforce drivers because it missed the card and gave me a 640 x 480 generic. Got my network card right though. Mandrake got everything right, except for my Sandisk card reader (I had to edit my fstab and change the reader from /dev/sdb to /dev/sdb1). Both systems got my zip correct. > > So, we have the chicken and the egg > syndrome. People won't use it unless it's at least as easy as Windows, and > it seems it can't be made that easy without the cooperation of hardware > developers writing linux drivers for their products alongside Windows > drivers. > > Anyways.. Sorry to rant. :) I do appreciate the help on this list, please > don't think that I don't. That's o.k. But, both systems have their quirks, and both require that you learn how they work. The biggest problem with Linux is manufacturer's not releasing specs/drivers for their hardware, not that Linux is difficult to use (my wife uses it exclusively, now, so it must be pretty easy). This system does require that the user pay attention to what hardware is being installed, but there really are plenty of alternatives that will be auto recognized. That attention is the price paid for not having to keep anti-virus software up-to-date, and for the low cost of the distributions, I guess. e. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?)
The easiest editor for linux, comparable to msdos edit would be mcedit. part of the "mc" midnight commander package.. If you knew Xtree gold or Norton commander in dos.. mc will make immediate sense to you. I have talked though some complex edits over the phone to newbies using mc to do it... give it a go.. It makes a good file system tool.. even does FTP and stuff if you want. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Stephen Kuhn Sent: Monday, 23 December 2002 5:43 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Mice Issues and comments (rant?) On Mon, 2002-12-23 at 08:25, Michael Paul wrote: > As a newbie trying linux for the first time, I find it very very > frustrating. Nothing is intuitive, and even basic text editors like vi or > emacs are difficult to use. I found myself wishing for good old MS-DOS edit. > There are more editors than you can shake a stick at - Mandrake only puts a few at your fingertips - vi and vim are horribly compmlex for simple jobs...pico - and other editors like them, are quite a bit easier to deal with - and yes, there are text editors like MS-DOS Edit - where do you think that the idea for MS-DOS edit came from? Unix. > As an experienced Windows user with 12 years under my belt, I think I can > safely say that linux will never gain full acceptance with the majoity of > computer users in it's current state. Nothing is intuitive. Even adding a > new device is a royal pain. First, you have to know which file to edit, > where to find it and then try to figure out the cryptic messages within > while consulting huge manuals. The general public will never go for it. > Windows plug and play works wonderfully. There are no text files to edit. > Things just work. Plug in a scanner, windows detects, feed it the cdrom, and > in about 5 minutes you are using it. Try that with linux. > Actually, being not just a Windows user for 12+ years, an OS/2 user for 14+ years, an Apple user for more than 16+ years, yes, there are some things that Windows does easily - although STILL NOT as easily on a Macintosh running OS 9...but the fact of the matter remains that Microsoft has kept the public relatively stupid about not just their computers, but their operating systems - Windows users, after the past five years, are just the same as Mac users - they know only what's in front of them. OS technologies and application technologies have suffered from this "end-user mentality" - so much so that hardware and peripheral manufacturers have become quite lazy in their product designs and support - but that's another story. You can't judge all linux distros by this one. Sure, it's got "gloss" and more of a "click here" aim, but overall, this is not the "end all" to linux distros...nor *nix distros. A Sun Sparc running Solaris would boggle your mind as to it's functionality - but that's $20kUSD just to step into. Overall, if you're talking about true plug'n'play, nothing can compare to the Macintosh's. Windows TRIES, but falls very short - too much "plug and pray", too many issues with corruptions to the registry, too many security issues and code-bloat. Mac, on the other hand, just works. That's it. Very little to support, very little to go wrong. Ha! Got ya there! (grin) > I guess I should have kept my mouth shut, but I'm pretty frustrated. Sorry > to subject you all, but I needed a release. :) I know that people will pipe > up about how I should get started coding this or that, but I'm not a coder. > I'm a user and sometime systems admin at work. And that's it. I realize that > the industry could help by releasing driver source code, etc. But, if I was > a hardware developer, I wouldn't want the software I invested in to be > readily available to competitors who would copy the innovation I paid for in > salaries for developers. So, we have the chicken and the egg syndrome. > People won't use it unless it's at least as easy as Windows, and it seems it > can't be made that easy without the cooperation of hardware developers > writing linux drivers for their products alongside Windows drivers. > > Anyways.. Sorry to rant. :) I do appreciate the help on this list, please > don't think that I don't. > > Michael > Don't worry about it man - really - just think of it as a constant learning experience - and having even a little linux experience goes quite a long way - and in the next year, that experience will definately grow and become a good thing to have under your belt. -- Mon Dec 23 08:30:01 EST 2002 8:30am up 10:44, 5 users, load average: 1.03, 0.38, 0.23 .o0 linux user:267497 0o. |____
