Re: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft
Todd Slater wrote: In another blow to Microsoft, a fourth computer maker plans to bundle Corel's WordPerfect Office with its low-end consumer machines. http://news.com.com/2100-1040-962085.html Now if some of the biggies would just sell some puters without an OS! Todd Todd, You can order them from Dell that way. Mark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 17 October 2002 10:01 am, John Richard Smith did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: > Here in the UK such a position is illegal, but that doesn't always mean > The European Commission is not weak and it has it's teeth right into M$ > currently > > My guess, and that is all it is, M$ is even more worried about the > European Commission's machinations than it was about the US governments > efforts, for one thing the European Commission is less easily bought, no > insult intended, in regard to US institiutions, and I think any final here in the US one good thing happened. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/134556724_microsoft17.html > Someday someone with drive and commercial acumen will do it. a few stores here in the bay area have boxes for demo, but i have yet to see a choice of distros. each store picks one, and that is all they offer installed. - -- "To live is to war with trolls" -Isben shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 @ http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE9rkZnBwq+ZwvIN/oRAuL4AJ4wawrDci2RkOr2gi/D+TloqjpayQCeKni8 LFTFiMke3IL8UcH9asEyEIU= =vojv -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 17 October 2002 8:51 am, Miark did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: > My question is more on the legal side. How can _any_ company dictate > what their resellers will sell? And that goes _double_ for a monopoly. > M$ was taken to court, were they not? What did they do there, bake > muffins and played with Barbies in the sandbox? Was anything accomplished > in that lawsuit? you didn't read up on the trial? after bush put ashcroft in charge, the DOJ decided to purse a harsh penelty. MS is no longer allowed to break the law, for 3 years, and if they do they can't do it again for 2 more. what if they still do? why we will send them back to court. harsh, huh? did MS buy off bush? nah. lets recall they have now been fond guilty 3 times. most importantly they are guilty of not living up to the terms of the first settlement several years ago. for this, the punishment is to spend money for yeas in court dragging the case out till an administration you bought gets in. the good news is that the market is doing what the government won't. 4 major computer companies are shipping machines bundled with corel rather than msworks. linux growth continues. apple (one more *nix) is now as open source friendly as they dare, and mac sales seem to be growing. governments and companies alike are dropping, or considering dropping MS. more important, the mindshare has changed. MS was once seen by CEO types (and some techs) as a provider of cheap "good enough" software. more and more they are seen as a tyrant. http://news.com.com/2009-1001-961291.html has some good examples. > > I believe in life _before_ death. > > I don't. Nobody as pale as me could possibly be alive. computer tan? :-) - -- "It is increasingly obvious that our techknowledgy is outpacing our humanity." -Einstein shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 @ http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE9rkVPBwq+ZwvIN/oRAuKQAJ0QsnuVERBn1Cn7AI0QVeu+cVeS9wCdHWze iQhha3eJdsNbIknyvH2G48o= =ScRV -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft
Miark wrote: if 90%plus of all user run windows, and people fear change, and you sell computers, the people who make windows (MS) say "you will sell all your machines with windows, or you will not sell any with it. ...would you give in? My question is more on the legal side. How can _any_ company dictate what their resellers will sell? And that goes _double_ for a monopoly. M$ was taken to court, were they not? What did they do there, bake muffins and played with Barbies in the sandbox? Was anything accomplished in that lawsuit? Here in the UK such a position is illegal, but that doesn't always mean anything can be done about it, it usually means someone rich enough to pay the legal costs has got to take them on in court and win to get their money back, and few people want to try that with M$ ,the UK Government could try such a thing , and they have a body called the MMC , Mergers and Monopolies Commission , and usually they do try, but M$ are so large and UK governemnt is relatively weak in relation to M$, but The European Commission is not weak and it has it's teeth right into M$ currently but just like the wheels of Justice it grinds ever so slowly but ever so surely. My guess, and that is all it is, M$ is even more worried about the European Commission's machinations than it was about the US governments efforts, for one thing the European Commission is less easily bought, no insult intended, in regard to US institiutions, and I think any final settlement will be harder on M$ than the US governemnt has been. Time will tell.Also Europe is a common market of 470 million now and growing , when the next 11 countries join it will be over 500million, and no company no matter how rich and resourceful can ignore the commercial consequencies of it's monoplistic policies will have on resulting sales, especially now that alternatives are a reallity. many of those newer EEC joinee's will be relatively less committed to M$ than current M$ customers, plus in my view M$ have made a fatal marketing error with XP by making the licensce terms even more userous than before. The one thing that puzzles me though is why more smaller firms, the private owner retail computer outfits don't put nice litle linux boxes together and demonstrate them to joe public . I would of though here was a definate commercial advantage for them. They have the technical nouse to perfect an installation and they can get the equipement relatively easy as I can, but they don't. I suppose it's a combination of customer lethargy and commercial inertia. Someday someone with drive and commercial acumen will do it. John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft
> if 90%plus of all user run windows, and people fear change, and you sell > computers, the people who make windows (MS) say "you will sell all your > machines with windows, or you will not sell any with it. > > ...would you give in? My question is more on the legal side. How can _any_ company dictate what their resellers will sell? And that goes _double_ for a monopoly. M$ was taken to court, were they not? What did they do there, bake muffins and played with Barbies in the sandbox? Was anything accomplished in that lawsuit? > I believe in life _before_ death. I don't. Nobody as pale as me could possibly be alive. Miark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft
On Wednesday 16 October 2002 08:17, shane wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Wednesday 16 October 2002 9:12 pm, windwalker did speak unto the huddled > > masses, saying: > > Walmart is selling systems without OS on them... When i was there only > > thing for a OS on shelf was Linux in either SuSe,Mandrake or Redhat. > > they sell online with mandrake preinstalled. > If i had not had this system and on a tight budget, i would get one with preinstalled mandrake... Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 16 October 2002 9:12 pm, windwalker did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: > Walmart is selling systems without OS on them... When i was there only > thing for a OS on shelf was Linux in either SuSe,Mandrake or Redhat. they sell online with mandrake preinstalled. - -- When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world. - John Muir shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 @ http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE9rYMABwq+ZwvIN/oRAphoAJwKzGVKChPpNHsMRtayt3ttoAgo9QCbBenO vsRWNRhMhpv5RCzcuIraVvs= =cVv4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft
On Thursday 17 October 2002 12:12 am, windwalker wrote: > On Wednesday 16 October 2002 13:00, Craig Williamson (ENZ) wrote: > > Hi There, > > > > Technically they can't. Microsoft slapped on new requirements to > > stop them doing that. > > > > But. Dell have found a way to get around it. If you order their > > n-series PC's it has a copy of FreeDOS (one floppy) included in the box. > > The n-series PC's are not advertised, so you might have to ring them up. > > The thing I'm quite confused about, is the fact that the other PC > > companies haven't caught on. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Craig > > Walmart is selling systems without OS on them... When i was there only > thing for a OS on shelf was Linux in either SuSe,Mandrake or Redhat. > Alot of places are starting to sell woth out a OS installed > Mike Mike: My understanding is that the MS agreement with large OEM's is that (1) the vendor pays a fee to MS based on every computer sold -- whether it has an OS installed or not (sometimes this is called "the Microsoft tax", and (2) that the vendor agrees not to install any other OS on _any_ systems. The vendor has the choice between accepting this deal, or paying full price for Windows. Since the "deal" price is somewhere in the $40 range, there really isn't much of a choice. That's why Dell throws a copy of FreeDOS in the box -- technically, it isn't installed. Don't expect a price break, though -- Dell still has to give MS its share. I'm not sure how Wally World/Microtel get around this, but I expect that Microtel doesn't sell PC's with windows installed, and so they don't need any sort of deal with MS. Similarly, small system builders probably don't build enough PC's to qualify for MS's OEM pricing, so it really doesn't matter to them either. Or they're betting that MS won't audit them. IANAL, but MS' OEM pricing policies strike me as being very dangerous (or arrogant) behavior for a company that has just been convicted of monopolistic practices and is still awaiting final settlement. But then, given Gates' wealth, I guess lawyers are cheap, especially in view of the possible gains if he prevails. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft
On Wednesday 16 October 2002 13:00, Craig Williamson (ENZ) wrote: > Hi There, > > Technically they can't. Microsoft slapped on new requirements to > stop them doing that. > > But. Dell have found a way to get around it. If you order their > n-series PC's it has a copy of FreeDOS (one floppy) included in the box. > The n-series PC's are not advertised, so you might have to ring them up. > The thing I'm quite confused about, is the fact that the other PC companies > haven't caught on. > > Hope this helps. > > Craig Walmart is selling systems without OS on them... When i was there only thing for a OS on shelf was Linux in either SuSe,Mandrake or Redhat. Alot of places are starting to sell woth out a OS installed Mike Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft
> > But. Dell have found a way to get around it. If you order their > > n-series PC's it has a copy of FreeDOS (one floppy) included in the box. Hmm. I've never had much use for Dell because of their Wintel mode of business. I think I actually felt a tinge of respect for them today. An odd day, indeed. (I also felt more revulsion for M$ today, but that's pretty consistent.) Tom: feel free to crush that tinge if you see it otherwise ;) Miark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft
Title: RE: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft Hi There, It is probably true that Dell sales people don't want to sell this, because it is mainly for businesses. Also they probably don't want to peeve Microsoft anymore than they already have. Some more information. http://news.com.com/2100-1001-949671.html?tag=fd_top Microsoft's response. http://members.microsoft.com/partner/licensing/licensingbasics/DellOfferingChannel.aspx Redhat's Reaction https://listman.redhat.com/pipermail/open-source-now-list/2002q3/001508.html -Original Message- From: Todd Slater [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 17 October, 2002 11:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:00:14 +1000 "Craig Williamson (ENZ)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi There, > > Technically they can't. Microsoft slapped on new requirements to > stop them doing that. > > But. Dell have found a way to get around it. If you order their > n-series PC's it has a copy of FreeDOS (one floppy) included in the box. > The n-series PC's are not advertised, so you might have to ring them up. > The thing I'm quite confused about, is the fact that the other PC > companies haven't caught on. > > Hope this helps. > > Craig MS must have tightened the reins, or the person I talked to from Dell was clueless. I asked for the n-series and she said it was not available. I asked for a pc without an OS, and she said they don't sell them without the OS, but that I could use fdisk and wipe everything out. I said but I'm still paying for the OS and she says no, it comes with the computer and I said well, don't you think the price of the OS is factored into the price of the computer? Let us know if you have an inside scoop! Todd
Re: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:00:14 +1000 "Craig Williamson (ENZ)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi There, > > Technically they can't. Microsoft slapped on new requirements to > stop them doing that. > > But. Dell have found a way to get around it. If you order their > n-series PC's it has a copy of FreeDOS (one floppy) included in the box. > The n-series PC's are not advertised, so you might have to ring them up. > The thing I'm quite confused about, is the fact that the other PC > companies haven't caught on. > > Hope this helps. > > Craig MS must have tightened the reins, or the person I talked to from Dell was clueless. I asked for the n-series and she said it was not available. I asked for a pc without an OS, and she said they don't sell them without the OS, but that I could use fdisk and wipe everything out. I said but I'm still paying for the OS and she says no, it comes with the computer and I said well, don't you think the price of the OS is factored into the price of the computer? Let us know if you have an inside scoop! Todd Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft
Title: RE: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft Hi There, Technically they can't. Microsoft slapped on new requirements to stop them doing that. But. Dell have found a way to get around it. If you order their n-series PC's it has a copy of FreeDOS (one floppy) included in the box. The n-series PC's are not advertised, so you might have to ring them up. The thing I'm quite confused about, is the fact that the other PC companies haven't caught on. Hope this helps. Craig -Original Message- From: Todd Slater [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 17 October, 2002 1:54 AM To: Mandrake Newbie Subject: [newbie] OT-Gateway snubs Microsoft In another blow to Microsoft, a fourth computer maker plans to bundle Corel's WordPerfect Office with its low-end consumer machines. http://news.com.com/2100-1040-962085.html Now if some of the biggies would just sell some puters without an OS! Todd
