Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
On 2007-12-07T03:16:59, Richard Creighton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I do appreciate your feedback however and hopefully your and the support > of others in this forum to induce openSuSE to change the way such a > critical program functions especially in the case of kernel replacement > or patching. This is being discussed as bugzilla 342703, but you should also try getting the particular patch to be merged upstream, or possibly, if it's additional drivers, at least be made available as "Kernel Module Packages" (KMP) by the provider, maybe via the Build Service. Then updates would be quite a bit easier for you. Regards, Lars -- Teamlead Kernel, SuSE Labs, Research and Development SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
Hi, this thread is now under moderation. So are some participants. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
Aaron Kulkis wrote: > Richard Creighton wrote: >> I feel like taking my favorite deity's name in vain so he would smite me >> off of the face of the earth because I couldn't be madder in hell than I >> am now at openSuSE's updater program. >> >> I have a raid disk controller that is not directly supported by any >> kernel issued by openSuSE. Worse, there are kernels that will not > ^^ >> compile the source of the controller card so when I get a kernel that > ^^ > > Uh... > NO kernel compiles the source of any code written for ANYTHING. > > The kernel is a resource manager and process scheduler. > > Compiling is done by a compiler, such as gcc, g++ or fort77. Um...let me re-phrase it then... while using the new kernel and the syms and internals and whatever support the kernel provides to the compilers, linkers and other such programs, the source code for the disk controller driver would fail to sucessfully compile but WITHOUT CHANGE to the source code or make files or .config, etc., if I booted and ran the compatible kernel, then the code would compile successfully and the resultant rr174x.ko could be insmod ed into the running kernel and the controller would function to allow access to the 2.5TB hardware raid 5 array. Now, I can't say the kernel compiled the driver, but the wrong kernel somehow prevented successful compilation. My guess is that the defective kernels had some internal links, symbols or pointers that a compiler, linker or loader or other support program depended on or that mismanaged a stack pointer or memory allocation that prevented successful compilation or insertion of a previously compiled driver module. ...but the other day, I was way too mad to say all of that and I still may be off base as to why one kernel would prevent sucessful compilation or even use of a driver where previous and subsequent kernels would allow success. All I know is that no updater program should remove my options to recover from whatever errors that cause such behavior by erasing all my functioning alternatives without at least the courtesy of telling me to go ))(*&*^ myself. I do appreciate your feedback however and hopefully your and the support of others in this forum to induce openSuSE to change the way such a critical program functions especially in the case of kernel replacement or patching. Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
On Wednesday 05 December 2007 19:08, David C. Rankin wrote: > I don't know who this Druid prick is, but it would be nice if his list > privileges were revoked. Perhaps someone at Novell can quietly make this > happen. He's actually a fairly bright guy with a lot of talent, who has anti-social issues... we're all patient with him... just believe in the power of love and pray for joy and peace for his soul. He's kinda like a beluga whale (who surfaces to spout once in a while), then submerges quietly for a period of time. -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
On Thursday 06 December 2007 16:04, Michael Skiba wrote: > > > hope you had lost all your data > > > > Wow. A new low. > > Wasn't he involved in some other flames too? no... I don't think so... ;-) -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
Richard Creighton wrote: I feel like taking my favorite deity's name in vain so he would smite me off of the face of the earth because I couldn't be madder in hell than I am now at openSuSE's updater program. I have a raid disk controller that is not directly supported by any kernel issued by openSuSE. Worse, there are kernels that will not ^^ compile the source of the controller card so when I get a kernel that ^^ Uh... NO kernel compiles the source of any code written for ANYTHING. The kernel is a resource manager and process scheduler. Compiling is done by a compiler, such as gcc, g++ or fort77. will both compile and is compatible with the Rocket Raid Corporation rr174x controller that allows me to have a 2.5TB raid5 hardware array PLUS any software (MD) array(s) I want to define with a total of 9 drives on my system, I don't want things automatically screwed up by anyone or anything. I recently compiled 2.6.22.13-0.3-bigsmp and the driver for my controller assimilated itself nicely and I added the new kernel and modules to the appropriate directories and to GRUB menu.lst and rebooted and everything worked. As did the previous kernels (2 deep) which gives one a warm fuzzy feeling considering that from 10.2 through the 2nd released kernel of 10.3GM, I had to do without my hardware controller and to get stuff off of those drives, I had to physically reinstall a drive with 10.2 on it that allowed the controller to work. Shortly after rebooting, the updater said it had a security patch on the new .13 kernel and (I know, I should know better than to trust anything by now), it was small, a patch and I said, go ahead, it isn't installing a new kernel, just requires a reboot to load it into memory after the update.Yeah, right!It not only ate my GRUB configuration files and replaced them, it also destroyed (by erasure) all of the other linux kernels in /boot, their syms AND all of the modules AND sources in /lib for those versions! Dammitalltohellanyway It is about dammed time this automatic with no recourse destruction by update of erstwhile functioning systems stops and the updater and Yast updates give us the OPTION to KEEP copies of our current configuration. Somewhere back around 7-9, this was the default, and that was when drive space was expensivenow, there is no excuse to not at least make it an option at a very minimum. Thankfully the kernel did boot and was still functional with my controller or I would have weeks of work ahead of me rather than hours or perhaps days recompiling from source and reinstalling the backup sources and boot images. I agree completely with the 2 preceding paragraphs. Get with it openSuSE If my name was Bill Gates, I'd be spending a few million, maybe billion, on lawyers about now regardless of whether or not 'free software' is exempt from destroying peoples work or not. The only problem with that legal theory is that Bill's own products are even worse in this respect... and that his representatives for years (documented in court proceedings) engaged a campaign of deliberately installing such destructive software for the whole purpose of inducing targeted companies, and every company which does business with the targeted companies to immediately engage in very expensive upgrade cycles (first of say, MS Office, which then triggers a whole hardware/OS upgrade cycle). This went on for almost a decade before CIO's finally figured out that these things were not accidents, but actually a deliberate "sales strategy" at MS. I am that mad that if I were indeed him, I'd go from richest man in the world to poorest, paying lawyers to induce management at openSuSE once and for all to opt for what is right rather than what is expedient. Richard (a very pissed off dude right now) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Skiba wrote: > Am Mittwoch, 5. Dezember 2007 20:47:53 schrieb Randall R Schulz: >> On Wednesday 05 December 2007 11:40, Druid wrote: >>> hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah >>> hope you had lost all your data >> Wow. A new low. > Wasn't he involved in some other flames too? Hehe. Druid seems to be like a false penny. He just appears here from time to time. But because there is no cure for stupidity yet so let him be. - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS, http://www.aedon.eu/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHWHsPh8q3OtgoGAwRAsOrAJ9C000HFi3bAPYcOnlDfil4BmGIyACfVPRF FPV6Z5fo/YVJ3CFp+6kwFog= =xjkx -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
Am Mittwoch, 5. Dezember 2007 20:47:53 schrieb Randall R Schulz: > On Wednesday 05 December 2007 11:40, Druid wrote: > > hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah > > > > hope you had lost all your data > > Wow. A new low. Wasn't he involved in some other flames too? Greetings Michael signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
Richard Creighton wrote: Druid wrote: hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah hope you had lost all your data I'm very surprised you can read...there weren't any pictures in my post, however, for your edification and delight, I maintain good backups and rsync several repositories just for situations like this. Go back to sucking your pacifier Never mind Marco (druid) Even his own mother doesn't trust him with a pacifier. That's why he's always such a self-centered brat. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
Richard Creighton wrote: > Druid wrote: >> hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah >> >> hope you had lost all your data >> > I'm very surprised you can read...there weren't any pictures in my post, > however, for your edification and delight, I maintain good backups and > rsync several repositories just for situations like this. Go back to > sucking your pacifier > I don't know who this Druid prick is, but it would be nice if his list privileges were revoked. Perhaps someone at Novell can quietly make this happen. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OpenSuse ignoring most problem reports (was: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * Philippe Landau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [12-05-07 17:18]: > It is obvious that OpenSuse ignores the vast majority of problem > reports. There are great programmers working for them that have to > concentrate on their tasks given by the hierarchy. The moment you > publicly question the Novell hierarchy you are told to shut up. > > And for good reasons, Novell is evidently even more in bed with > Microsoft then other financiers of Linux distributions. Your Magnificent Ignorance, PLEASE find another distro, and LEAVE! - -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USAHOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535@ http://counter.li.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHVy18ClSjbQz1U5oRArNhAKCejsiTC0RmFx+m0FX4L7nc+E93mQCeKv3l rH6dD7Mdzxt22JxlAqkrrn0= =vuUN -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
On 12/5/07, Ken Schneider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > James D. Parra pecked at the keyboard and wrote: > > > > On Wednesday 05 December 2007 11:40, Druid wrote: [flush] > > > > I agree. How can a post like that be helpful? Could the author really be > > that happy about someone who is patching his kernel (while, more than > > likely, a helpful contributer to the list) will lose all of their data? > > > > Amazing. > > > > ~James > > You could join me and send a message to the list owner and request the > Druid be removed. There was absolutely no reason for Druid's response. > > Reason: diaper++full (A chronic condition in the cyberbrat world) -- I have seen the future and I'm not in it! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OpenSuse ignoring most problem reports (was: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
On 12/5/07, Philippe Landau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Richard Creighton wrote: > > For many weeks, going on months, I studiously ignored the red triangle > > of the updater. I weakened this one time.I will NEVER trust the > > updater again. All updates had been done via the YAST online update > > where I had some control over what and when. Kinda defeats the purpose > > of the automatic updater, doesn't it? I have filed bugreports until I > > am tired of being ignored. > It is obvious that OpenSuse ignores the vast majority of problem Oh yes, pretty obvious. I have never seen a bug being closed. Tell you what, I know the novell workers passes all day looking at the screen of their computers and saying "ha! Ignored one more!", and there is a competition who ignores more problems per day... There are lots of distros out there. Pick your poison, if you think its too bad in here... > reports. There are great programmers working for them that have to > concentrate on their tasks given by the hierarchy. They do? In a company? You mean, they arte working in a company and they have to follow orders by their bosses who are paying them? Cmon, are you kidding? How can they let people do that? Have orders in a company, hah, what a joke. What will be next? They will want us to take bath everyday? To work? I thought we were in hippie-land, doing whatever anyone wants, in anarchism. > The moment you publicly question the Novell hierarchy you are told to shut up. > Ah, yes, its like the mafia... I know three guys who questioned that. They were sent drowned in a river with rocks tied to their legs... its terrible, the horror > And for good reasons, Novell is evidently even more in bed with > Microsoft then other financiers of Linux distributions. > Oh mine, the trollage season started again? Amazing... Philippe, why dont you go troll elsewhere? Because you are, evidently, a fucking troll. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OpenSuse ignoring most problem reports (was: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 23:18 +0100, Philippe Landau wrote: > > > It is obvious that OpenSuse ignores the vast majority of problem > reports. There are great programmers working for them that have to > concentrate on their tasks given by the hierarchy. The moment you > publicly question the Novell hierarchy you are told to shut up. > Oh come on... Conspiracy theorists running amuck here. I give the Novell developers full credit for their work. They work hard, and the reason why not every detail that you expect to be dealt with is not met is because Novell also has a limited amount of resources. And in the case of openSuse, it is a mix of Novell developers and outside contributing developers (as in open source), so if you have such disdain for the developers, why not extend it to all of the outside developers who contribute as well? That entire logic is flawed. Novell does not have the luxury of a 50,000-employee company like Microsoft. Balancing priorities is ALWAYS a difficult task and one that inevitably someone loses. Guess in this case, that was you. Your statement is an insult to developers at Novell. > And for good reasons, Novell is evidently even more in bed with > Microsoft then other financiers of Linux distributions. > Ugh, I'm so tired of hearing this one. It's been so refuted time and time again, I'm not even going to bother with responding to this one. > if and when the financiers decide it is in their own interest. > Unless people start speaking up together. > But most prefer swallowing trinkets and compete in their subservience. > They actually do welcome your comments. Heck, look at where you are posting this very email??? There are Novellians looking in on this list and taking note of what people say. But if you assume everything happens overnight, think again. To use Microsoft as an example, hmmm... they have 50,000 employees and yet take forever in between OS version releases (years not months) 10.3 was released a couple months ago. 11.0 is about to be released around this springtime. > Thanks for your efforts trying to make a difference, Richard, > however please don't let curtains and staged competition fool you. > We don't "try" to make a difference. We ARE making a difference, by participating, by testing out, by reporting, by getting involved in opensuse teams, etc. I participate with the opensuse gnome team. What are you doing? > Kind regards Philippe -- ---Bryen--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OpenSuse ignoring most problem reports (was: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
Richard Creighton wrote: > For many weeks, going on months, I studiously ignored the red triangle > of the updater. I weakened this one time.I will NEVER trust the > updater again. All updates had been done via the YAST online update > where I had some control over what and when. Kinda defeats the purpose > of the automatic updater, doesn't it? I have filed bugreports until I > am tired of being ignored. It is obvious that OpenSuse ignores the vast majority of problem reports. There are great programmers working for them that have to concentrate on their tasks given by the hierarchy. The moment you publicly question the Novell hierarchy you are told to shut up. And for good reasons, Novell is evidently even more in bed with Microsoft then other financiers of Linux distributions. > One nice thing about being a retired college professor after retiring > from being a programmer for many years, is that I now have a lot of time > to annoy Novel senior managment by trying to write lucid letters to them > in the hopes that writing business case (read dollars and cents) reasons > why it is to their interests to pay attention to these little details. > > I live and breathe Linux, love SuSE and invoke Gates' name in vain as > often as I can, but when stuff like this happens due to poor management > decisions being made, Linux, SuSE and Novell (where the money comes > from) all suffer in the long run. We want the 'unwashed masses' that > currently run MS to come and try out SuSE and abandon monopolistic > offerings of Gates and Co., but when stuff like this is allowed to > fester unchallenged, it is really unlikely that openSuSE, et al., we > ever make that much of an impact on those we want most to switch. If > you have to be an ex college professor that taught OS theory in order to > have a chance to succeed with openSuSE, what chance does the average > Windoze schmuck have at success? Only by great luck will he have any. The masses will be given a valid alternative if and when the financiers decide it is in their own interest. Unless people start speaking up together. But most prefer swallowing trinkets and compete in their subservience. Thanks for your efforts trying to make a difference, Richard, however please don't let curtains and staged competition fool you. Kind regards Philippe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
Richard Creighton wrote: Get with it openSuSE If my name was Bill Gates, I'd be spending a few million, maybe billion, on lawyers about now regardless of whether or not 'free software' is exempt from destroying peoples work or not. I am that mad that if I were indeed him, I'd go from richest man in the world to poorest, paying lawyers to induce management at openSuSE once and for all to opt for what is right rather than what is expedient. In all fairness, the people that make "unfree" software probably care less about what the software does to your system. All "unfree" software I have seen has absolutely no warranty (real or implied, and this is becoming more and more supported by law now--interesting that something you buy can do exactly opposite of what it is supposed to yet you can't even get a refund) and the companies that make it don't care what it does to your system as long as it doesn't hurt their sales. In fact, if they could make software that hurt your system knowing it would INCREASE sales, they would. At least the makers of free software (who don't issue warranties either) usually at least care about the end user. --Jason -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System update undo option would help (Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
Ken Schneider wrote: > Another thing you can do is download the updated kernel from the update > site[1] and install it yourself using rpm -i and it will install as > another bootable kernel and give you a chance to make your module and > test before removing any older kernel. > [1] http://download.opensuse.org/update/10.3/rpm/i586/ That should really be the default behaviour. Making roll-back easy whenever necessary. Kind regards Philippe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
Richard Creighton pecked at the keyboard and wrote: > Carlos E. R. wrote: > > > The Wednesday 2007-12-05 at 14:37 -0500, Richard Creighton wrote: > > Shortly after rebooting, the updater said it had a security patch on the new .13 kernel and (I know, I should know better than to trust anything by now), it was small, a patch and I said, go ahead, it isn't installing a new kernel, just requires a reboot to load it into memory after the update.Yeah, right! > Patch or no patch, a kernel patch replaces the whole kernel, even if > only a small part of it actually changes. > >> I know it replaces the kernel, it has to, but I wasn't expecting it to >> REPLACE 2 earlier versions with the patched version which seems to have >> the same version numberyupjust checked, the version number did >> not change and the patch didn't mention anything about a version change > It not only ate my GRUB configuration files and replaced them, it also destroyed (by erasure) all of the other linux kernels in /boot, their syms AND all of the modules AND sources in /lib for those versions! Dammitalltohellanyway > All the kernels with different version numbers that the one it was > replacing? It should only replace the previous kernel, no more. If it > removes other kernels, open a bugzilla. > >> It erased 2.6.22.12-0.1-bigsmp >> 2.6.22.9-0.4 bigsmp > >> and reinstalled >> 2.6.22.13-0.3-bigsmp (I assumed patched) which was >> already online unpatched with that version. > > > And, if you say you had compiled your own kernel, that one would not > be touched - provided you compiled it with a different name. > Furthermore, once you give the kernel a name (inside the make), the > /lib/modules/ tree receives also a different name, and that one is not > replaced: > > 1505880 Nov 22 22:21 /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22.12-0.1-cer <-- mine > 1559220 Nov 12 04:13 /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22.12-0.1-cer.old <-- mine, old > 1593968 Nov 7 17:09 /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22.12-0.1-default <-- theirs > > Only "theirs" is replaced. Plus: > >> I start with a make mrproper but >> I am not enough of a kernel expert to answer the thousands of questions >> in the .config so I compile using a make O= oldconfig >> and the only thing I have to do when done is to >> make O= modules_install install > > >> insmod /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/scsi/rr174x.ko >> depmod >> mkinitrd > > > /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-cer/ <=== mine > /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-default/ > /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-debug/ > /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-xen/ > /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-xenpae/ > > Those I have named your kernel, prior to compile, mind! are not > replaced by Yast. They don't belong to any rpm, thus they are not > touched. > > The sources, yes, that would be lost unless I copied them over. That > is known. > > > But yes, for something as important as a kernel, it should ask. But I > think you can go into YOU (never, ever, do an automatic update) and > select the previous kernel to be maintained - but... no, as it has the > same rpm name, the option is not given. You can't. > >> For many weeks, going on months, I studiously ignored the red triangle >> of the updater. I weakened this one time.I will NEVER trust the >> updater again. All updates had been done via the YAST online update >> where I had some control over what and when. Kinda defeats the purpose >> of the automatic updater, doesn't it? I have filed bugreports until I >> am tired of being ignored. > >> > >> I live and breathe Linux, love SuSE You're not the only one, been using SuSe linux since 1998. Another thing you can do is download the updated kernel from the update site[1] and install it yourself using rpm -i and it will install as another bootable kernel and give you a chance to make your module and test before removing any older kernel. [1] http://download.opensuse.org/update/10.3/rpm/i586/ -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
Richard Creighton wrote: I feel like taking my favorite deity's name in vain so he would smite me off of the face of the earth because I couldn't be madder in hell than I am now at openSuSE's updater program. Get with it openSuSE If my name was Bill Gates, I'd be spending a few million, maybe billion, on lawyers about now regardless of whether or not 'free software' is exempt from destroying peoples work or not. I am that mad that if I were indeed him, I'd go from richest man in the world to poorest, paying lawyers to induce management at openSuSE once and for all to opt for what is right rather than what is expedient. Richard (a very pissed off dude right now) Dude, breathe, what ever's happened it should be easy to install the module into the new kernel and get your system running again, nothing will be lost and you'll know for next time. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
Carlos E. R. wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > The Wednesday 2007-12-05 at 14:37 -0500, Richard Creighton wrote: > > >> Shortly after rebooting, the updater said it had a security patch on the >> new .13 kernel and (I know, I should know better than to trust anything >> by now), it was small, a patch and I said, go ahead, it isn't installing >> a new kernel, just requires a reboot to load it into memory after the >> update.Yeah, right! > > Patch or no patch, a kernel patch replaces the whole kernel, even if > only a small part of it actually changes. > I know it replaces the kernel, it has to, but I wasn't expecting it to REPLACE 2 earlier versions with the patched version which seems to have the same version numberyupjust checked, the version number did not change and the patch didn't mention anything about a version change >> It not only ate my GRUB configuration files >> and replaced them, it also destroyed (by erasure) all of the other linux >> kernels in /boot, their syms AND all of the modules AND sources in /lib >> for those versions! Dammitalltohellanyway > > All the kernels with different version numbers that the one it was > replacing? It should only replace the previous kernel, no more. If it > removes other kernels, open a bugzilla. > It erased 2.6.22.12-0.1-bigsmp 2.6.22.9-0.4 bigsmp and reinstalled 2.6.22.13-0.3-bigsmp (I assumed patched) which was already online unpatched with that version. > And, if you say you had compiled your own kernel, that one would not > be touched - provided you compiled it with a different name. > Furthermore, once you give the kernel a name (inside the make), the > /lib/modules/ tree receives also a different name, and that one is not > replaced: > > 1505880 Nov 22 22:21 /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22.12-0.1-cer <-- mine > 1559220 Nov 12 04:13 /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22.12-0.1-cer.old <-- mine, old > 1593968 Nov 7 17:09 /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22.12-0.1-default <-- theirs > > Only "theirs" is replaced. Plus: > I start with a make mrproper but I am not enough of a kernel expert to answer the thousands of questions in the .config so I compile using a make O= oldconfig and the only thing I have to do when done is to make O= modules_install install insmod /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/scsi/rr174x.ko depmod mkinitrd > /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-cer/ <=== mine > /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-default/ > /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-debug/ > /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-xen/ > /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-xenpae/ > > Those I have named your kernel, prior to compile, mind! are not > replaced by Yast. They don't belong to any rpm, thus they are not > touched. > > The sources, yes, that would be lost unless I copied them over. That > is known. > > > But yes, for something as important as a kernel, it should ask. But I > think you can go into YOU (never, ever, do an automatic update) and > select the previous kernel to be maintained - but... no, as it has the > same rpm name, the option is not given. You can't. > For many weeks, going on months, I studiously ignored the red triangle of the updater. I weakened this one time.I will NEVER trust the updater again. All updates had been done via the YAST online update where I had some control over what and when. Kinda defeats the purpose of the automatic updater, doesn't it? I have filed bugreports until I am tired of being ignored. One nice thing about being a retired college professor after retiring from being a programmer for many years, is that I now have a lot of time to annoy Novel senior managment by trying to write lucid letters to them in the hopes that writing business case (read dollars and cents) reasons why it is to their interests to pay attention to these little details. I live and breathe Linux, love SuSE and invoke Gates' name in vain as often as I can, but when stuff like this happens due to poor management decisions being made, Linux, SuSE and Novell (where the money comes from) all suffer in the long run. We want the 'unwashed masses' that currently run MS to come and try out SuSE and abandon monopolistic offerings of Gates and Co., but when stuff like this is allowed to fester unchallenged, it is really unlikely that openSuSE, et al., we ever make that much of an impact on those we want most to switch. If you have to be an ex college professor that taught OS theory in order to have a chance to succeed with openSuSE, what chance does the average Windoze schmuck have at success? Only by great luck will he have any. Cheers back atcha Richard > - -- Cheers, >Carlos E. R. > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFHVwLvtTMYHG2NR9URAr6jAJ9hpzL0ZGxPsUSpk3AmoDCH/yYoMwCgkYG7 > 0K09hp35c8RTelJ/ErbTWk0= > =4Xya > -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
> > Wow! Well Ken, I stand corrected. > yeah wow... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
-Original Message- From: Druid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:19 PM To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight! > > You could join me and send a message to the list owner and request the > Druid be removed. There was absolutely no reason for Druid's response. > There wasnt a reason for yours either. So Im sending a message to the list owner to remove us both. Regards Marcio Wow! Well Ken, I stand corrected. ~James -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
> > There was absolutely no reason for Druid's response. > > Sure there was, just not one that was topical, polite, helpful, or warranted. Yeah, seems like an empty rant... just like the original post. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
-Original Message- From: Ken Schneider [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:13 PM To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight! James D. Parra pecked at the keyboard and wrote: > > On Wednesday 05 December 2007 11:40, Druid wrote: >> hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah >> >> hope you had lost all your data > > Wow. A new low. > > RRS > ~~~ > > I agree. How can a post like that be helpful? Could the author really be > that happy about someone who is patching his kernel (while, more than > likely, a helpful contributer to the list) will lose all of their data? > > Amazing. > > ~James You could join me and send a message to the list owner and request the Druid be removed. There was absolutely no reason for Druid's response. -- Ken Schneider ~~~ A thought Ken, but I'd rather see him reconsider before posting a useless comment. Perhaps he'd be more mindful next time. ~James -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 15:12 -0500, Ken Schneider wrote: > James D. Parra pecked at the keyboard and wrote: > > > > On Wednesday 05 December 2007 11:40, Druid wrote: > >> hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah > >> > >> hope you had lost all your data > > > > Wow. A new low. > > > > RRS > > ~~~ > > > > I agree. How can a post like that be helpful? Could the author really be > > that happy about someone who is patching his kernel (while, more than > > likely, a helpful contributer to the list) will lose all of their data? > > > > Amazing. > > > > ~James > > You could join me and send a message to the list owner and request the > Druid be removed. There was absolutely no reason for Druid's response. > Agreed and its not the first time Druid has resorted to childish behavior. You know, the very same behavior he accuses others of having. I have also joined in sending a request to the list owner. For those of you not aware of the address for the list owner, it is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- > Ken Schneider > SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- ---Bryen--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
On 2007/12/05 15:12 (GMT-0500) Ken Schneider apparently typed: > James D. Parra pecked at the keyboard and wrote: >> On Wednesday 05 December 2007 11:40, Druid wrote: >>> hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah >>> hope you had lost all your data >> Wow. A new low. >> I agree. How can a post like that be helpful? Could the author really be >> that happy about someone who is patching his kernel (while, more than >> likely, a helpful contributer to the list) will lose all of their data? >> Amazing. > There was absolutely no reason for Druid's response. Sure there was, just not one that was topical, polite, helpful, or warranted. -- " Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
> > You could join me and send a message to the list owner and request the > Druid be removed. There was absolutely no reason for Druid's response. > There wasnt a reason for yours either. So Im sending a message to the list owner to remove us both. Regards Marcio -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
James D. Parra pecked at the keyboard and wrote: > > On Wednesday 05 December 2007 11:40, Druid wrote: >> hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah >> >> hope you had lost all your data > > Wow. A new low. > > RRS > ~~~ > > I agree. How can a post like that be helpful? Could the author really be > that happy about someone who is patching his kernel (while, more than > likely, a helpful contributer to the list) will lose all of their data? > > Amazing. > > ~James You could join me and send a message to the list owner and request the Druid be removed. There was absolutely no reason for Druid's response. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
> > I agree. How can a post like that be helpful? Could the author really be > that happy about someone who is patching his kernel (while, more than > likely, a helpful contributer to the list) will lose all of their data? > Yes, I could. Specially after reading an email that seems to be writtien by a 5 year old screaming whining girl in madness childish behavior. Im not his father, mother or wife to have the obligation to listen to an uneducated whiner cursing suse for what it seems lack of skill to manage the system. Ih he was bill gates, I'd hope he get a pie in the face too. Marcio -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2007-12-05 at 14:37 -0500, Richard Creighton wrote: Shortly after rebooting, the updater said it had a security patch on the new .13 kernel and (I know, I should know better than to trust anything by now), it was small, a patch and I said, go ahead, it isn't installing a new kernel, just requires a reboot to load it into memory after the update.Yeah, right! Patch or no patch, a kernel patch replaces the whole kernel, even if only a small part of it actually changes. It not only ate my GRUB configuration files and replaced them, it also destroyed (by erasure) all of the other linux kernels in /boot, their syms AND all of the modules AND sources in /lib for those versions! Dammitalltohellanyway All the kernels with different version numbers that the one it was replacing? It should only replace the previous kernel, no more. If it removes other kernels, open a bugzilla. And, if you say you had compiled your own kernel, that one would not be touched - provided you compiled it with a different name. Furthermore, once you give the kernel a name (inside the make), the /lib/modules/ tree receives also a different name, and that one is not replaced: 1505880 Nov 22 22:21 /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22.12-0.1-cer <-- mine 1559220 Nov 12 04:13 /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22.12-0.1-cer.old <-- mine, old 1593968 Nov 7 17:09 /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22.12-0.1-default <-- theirs Only "theirs" is replaced. Plus: /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-cer/ <=== mine /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-default/ /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-debug/ /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-xen/ /lib/modules/2.6.22.12-0.1-xenpae/ Those I have named your kernel, prior to compile, mind! are not replaced by Yast. They don't belong to any rpm, thus they are not touched. The sources, yes, that would be lost unless I copied them over. That is known. But yes, for something as important as a kernel, it should ask. But I think you can go into YOU (never, ever, do an automatic update) and select the previous kernel to be maintained - but... no, as it has the same rpm name, the option is not given. You can't. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHVwLvtTMYHG2NR9URAr6jAJ9hpzL0ZGxPsUSpk3AmoDCH/yYoMwCgkYG7 0K09hp35c8RTelJ/ErbTWk0= =4Xya -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
On Wednesday 05 December 2007 11:40, Druid wrote: > hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah > > hope you had lost all your data Wow. A new low. RRS ~~~ I agree. How can a post like that be helpful? Could the author really be that happy about someone who is patching his kernel (while, more than likely, a helpful contributer to the list) will lose all of their data? Amazing. ~James -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
On 12/5/07, Richard Creighton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Druid wrote: > > hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah > > > > hope you had lost all your data > > > I'm very surprised you can read...there weren't any pictures in my post, > however, for your edification and delight, I maintain good backups and > rsync several repositories just for situations like this. Go back to > sucking your pacifier > hahahahah -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
On Wednesday 05 December 2007 11:40, Druid wrote: > hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah > > hope you had lost all your data Wow. A new low. RRS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
Druid wrote: > hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah > > hope you had lost all your data > I'm very surprised you can read...there weren't any pictures in my post, however, for your edification and delight, I maintain good backups and rsync several repositories just for situations like this. Go back to sucking your pacifier > On 12/5/07, Richard Creighton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I feel like taking my favorite deity's name in vain so he would smite me >> off of the face of the earth because I couldn't be madder in hell than I >> am now at openSuSE's updater program. >> >> I have a raid disk controller that is not directly supported by any >> kernel issued by openSuSE. Worse, there are kernels that will not >> compile the source of the controller card so when I get a kernel that >> will both compile and is compatible with the Rocket Raid Corporation >> rr174x controller that allows me to have a 2.5TB raid5 hardware array >> PLUS any software (MD) array(s) I want to define with a total of 9 >> drives on my system, I don't want things automatically screwed up by >> anyone or anything. I recently compiled 2.6.22.13-0.3-bigsmp and the >> driver for my controller assimilated itself nicely and I added the new >> kernel and modules to the appropriate directories and to GRUB menu.lst >> and rebooted and everything worked. As did the previous kernels (2 >> deep) which gives one a warm fuzzy feeling considering that from 10.2 >> through the 2nd released kernel of 10.3GM, I had to do without my >> hardware controller and to get stuff off of those drives, I had to >> physically reinstall a drive with 10.2 on it that allowed the controller >> to work. >> >> Shortly after rebooting, the updater said it had a security patch on the >> new .13 kernel and (I know, I should know better than to trust anything >> by now), it was small, a patch and I said, go ahead, it isn't installing >> a new kernel, just requires a reboot to load it into memory after the >> update.Yeah, right!It not only ate my GRUB configuration files >> and replaced them, it also destroyed (by erasure) all of the other linux >> kernels in /boot, their syms AND all of the modules AND sources in /lib >> for those versions! Dammitalltohellanyway >> >> It is about dammed time this automatic with no recourse destruction by >> update of erstwhile functioning systems stops and the updater and Yast >> updates give us the OPTION to KEEP copies of our current >> configuration. Somewhere back around 7-9, this was the default, and >> that was when drive space was expensivenow, there is no excuse to >> not at least make it an option at a very minimum. Thankfully the >> kernel did boot and was still functional with my controller or I would >> have weeks of work ahead of me rather than hours or perhaps days >> recompiling from source and reinstalling the backup sources and boot images. >> >> Get with it openSuSE If my name was Bill Gates, I'd be spending a >> few million, maybe billion, on lawyers about now regardless of whether >> or not 'free software' is exempt from destroying peoples work or not. >> I am that mad that if I were indeed him, I'd go from richest man in the >> world to poorest, paying lawyers to induce management at openSuSE once >> and for all to opt for what is right rather than what is expedient. >> >> Richard >> (a very pissed off dude right now) >> -- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahah hope you had lost all your data On 12/5/07, Richard Creighton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I feel like taking my favorite deity's name in vain so he would smite me > off of the face of the earth because I couldn't be madder in hell than I > am now at openSuSE's updater program. > > I have a raid disk controller that is not directly supported by any > kernel issued by openSuSE. Worse, there are kernels that will not > compile the source of the controller card so when I get a kernel that > will both compile and is compatible with the Rocket Raid Corporation > rr174x controller that allows me to have a 2.5TB raid5 hardware array > PLUS any software (MD) array(s) I want to define with a total of 9 > drives on my system, I don't want things automatically screwed up by > anyone or anything. I recently compiled 2.6.22.13-0.3-bigsmp and the > driver for my controller assimilated itself nicely and I added the new > kernel and modules to the appropriate directories and to GRUB menu.lst > and rebooted and everything worked. As did the previous kernels (2 > deep) which gives one a warm fuzzy feeling considering that from 10.2 > through the 2nd released kernel of 10.3GM, I had to do without my > hardware controller and to get stuff off of those drives, I had to > physically reinstall a drive with 10.2 on it that allowed the controller > to work. > > Shortly after rebooting, the updater said it had a security patch on the > new .13 kernel and (I know, I should know better than to trust anything > by now), it was small, a patch and I said, go ahead, it isn't installing > a new kernel, just requires a reboot to load it into memory after the > update.Yeah, right!It not only ate my GRUB configuration files > and replaced them, it also destroyed (by erasure) all of the other linux > kernels in /boot, their syms AND all of the modules AND sources in /lib > for those versions! Dammitalltohellanyway > > It is about dammed time this automatic with no recourse destruction by > update of erstwhile functioning systems stops and the updater and Yast > updates give us the OPTION to KEEP copies of our current > configuration. Somewhere back around 7-9, this was the default, and > that was when drive space was expensivenow, there is no excuse to > not at least make it an option at a very minimum. Thankfully the > kernel did boot and was still functional with my controller or I would > have weeks of work ahead of me rather than hours or perhaps days > recompiling from source and reinstalling the backup sources and boot images. > > Get with it openSuSE If my name was Bill Gates, I'd be spending a > few million, maybe billion, on lawyers about now regardless of whether > or not 'free software' is exempt from destroying peoples work or not. > I am that mad that if I were indeed him, I'd go from richest man in the > world to poorest, paying lawyers to induce management at openSuSE once > and for all to opt for what is right rather than what is expedient. > > Richard > (a very pissed off dude right now) > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] I am so mad I can't see straight!!!!!
I feel like taking my favorite deity's name in vain so he would smite me off of the face of the earth because I couldn't be madder in hell than I am now at openSuSE's updater program. I have a raid disk controller that is not directly supported by any kernel issued by openSuSE. Worse, there are kernels that will not compile the source of the controller card so when I get a kernel that will both compile and is compatible with the Rocket Raid Corporation rr174x controller that allows me to have a 2.5TB raid5 hardware array PLUS any software (MD) array(s) I want to define with a total of 9 drives on my system, I don't want things automatically screwed up by anyone or anything. I recently compiled 2.6.22.13-0.3-bigsmp and the driver for my controller assimilated itself nicely and I added the new kernel and modules to the appropriate directories and to GRUB menu.lst and rebooted and everything worked. As did the previous kernels (2 deep) which gives one a warm fuzzy feeling considering that from 10.2 through the 2nd released kernel of 10.3GM, I had to do without my hardware controller and to get stuff off of those drives, I had to physically reinstall a drive with 10.2 on it that allowed the controller to work. Shortly after rebooting, the updater said it had a security patch on the new .13 kernel and (I know, I should know better than to trust anything by now), it was small, a patch and I said, go ahead, it isn't installing a new kernel, just requires a reboot to load it into memory after the update.Yeah, right!It not only ate my GRUB configuration files and replaced them, it also destroyed (by erasure) all of the other linux kernels in /boot, their syms AND all of the modules AND sources in /lib for those versions! Dammitalltohellanyway It is about dammed time this automatic with no recourse destruction by update of erstwhile functioning systems stops and the updater and Yast updates give us the OPTION to KEEP copies of our current configuration. Somewhere back around 7-9, this was the default, and that was when drive space was expensivenow, there is no excuse to not at least make it an option at a very minimum. Thankfully the kernel did boot and was still functional with my controller or I would have weeks of work ahead of me rather than hours or perhaps days recompiling from source and reinstalling the backup sources and boot images. Get with it openSuSE If my name was Bill Gates, I'd be spending a few million, maybe billion, on lawyers about now regardless of whether or not 'free software' is exempt from destroying peoples work or not. I am that mad that if I were indeed him, I'd go from richest man in the world to poorest, paying lawyers to induce management at openSuSE once and for all to opt for what is right rather than what is expedient. Richard (a very pissed off dude right now) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
