Re: [opensuse-factory] updating factory
Ulrich Windl wrote: ... YaST -> System Update Actually, I never found out what that is supposed to do. It seems you cannot upgrade (e.g. 9.2 -> 9.3) using that. So should it be a kind of YOU using the Sure you can. But you have to remove the 9.2 installation source first, then add the 9.3 installation source, then do system upgrade. -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> _\_v FOSDEM 2006 -- 25+26 February 2006 in Brussels signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [opensuse-factory] crash on time error
On 30 Mar 2006 at 8:22, jdd wrote: > still on this very low end machine (only 76Mo ram), I got a > time error (I don't really understand why). I didn't change > anything to the time :-(. > > this took 2 hours to correct and got a hard crash. after 16 > hours of install :-(. Maybe I'm the only one, but I have no concrete idea what kind of problems you are talking about! Maybe tetry with a better report... Ulrich > > I wont fill bug reports for such things. This computer runs > well with 10.0. > > I only try to find a way to make a very straightforward > install on low end machine, kind of machines that runs quite > well and are nearly free nowaday. > > this one could be very handy as a personal gateway (it's a > mini laptop). > > what make me upset is that the machine runs linux very well, > it's only an install problem > > this mail only for reporting a situation, not at all as a > complain :-). If I find a way, I'll report it :-) > > jdd > > -- > http://www.dodin.net > http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html > http://lucien.dodin.net > http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] opensuse-commit up & running
On Thu, Mar 30, 2006 at 08:59:14AM +0200, Hans Witvliet wrote: > On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 12:08 +0200, houghi wrote: > > > > > Nice to know that Beta 9 is out. ;-) > > > Forgive my ignorance, but on the download site it is still B8 I was refering to http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse-commit/2006-Mar/0036.html houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] ndiswrapper missing on the beta8 CDs
On 29 Mar 2006 at 13:55, Mauricio Teixeira wrote: > Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote: > > > There is a license problem. Ndiswrapper is needed for certain (windows) > > closed source network drivers which cannot be legally inserted into a GPL > > I *may* be wrong, but in this case you're not violating any license > because you OWN the hardware, and the software that comes with it. You may OWN the hardware, but you don't really OWN the software. See the licence text that comes with it. If you'd own the software you could give out your own licenses for it. > > The issue about close vs GPL, is already solved, the same way as NVIDIA > drivers. SuSE doesn't include these neither, or what? Regards, Ulrich - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] opensuse-commit up & running
On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 12:08 +0200, houghi wrote: > > Nice to know that Beta 9 is out. ;-) > Forgive my ignorance, but on the download site it is still B8 Hans -- pgp-id: 926EBB12 pgp-fingerprint: BE97 1CBF FAC4 236C 4A73 F76E EDFC D032 926E BB12 Registered linux user: 75761 (http://counter.li.org) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] updating factory
On 29 Mar 2006 at 17:37, Henne Vogelsang wrote: > Hi, > > On Wednesday, March 29, 2006 at 10:33:50, Felix Miata wrote: > > > I've been running Mandriva devel (Cooker) for several years. Last week I > > installed factory from ftp. Now I want to update. This was a simple 2 > > step process in Cooker: 1-urpmi-update -a; 2-urpmi --auto-select. The > > options in YaST Control Center don't seem to have an equivalent, and > > looking on http://en.opensuse.org/ doesn't seem to be getting me > > anywhere. Can someone please point me to instructions for how this is > > done in factory? > > YaST -> System Update Actually, I never found out what that is supposed to do. It seems you cannot upgrade (e.g. 9.2 -> 9.3) using that. So should it be a kind of YOU using the current OS media (CD/DVD)? Regards, Ulrich - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse-factory] "tray won't open" annoyance (Was: Re: [opensuse-factory] ndiswrapper)
On 29 Mar 2006 at 7:12, Kenneth Schneider wrote: > On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 07:21 +0200, houghi wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 28, 2006 at 11:25:50PM -0500, Kenneth Schneider wrote: > > > Hard to do that when the file is not on the beta8 CDs! Downloaded from > > > factory and transfered to CD for install. > > > > You can use makeSUSEdvd also to make a CD and include the RPMs you like > > (and have place for). Disadvatage is that you first need to know what > > RPMs you might need. ;-) > > > Yes, I have used this. Unfortunately my laptop no longer will read DVDs > but will read CDs. Which brings up another -annoying- problem with 10.1. > After the install I went to install more packages, inserted CD1 and when > I needed to insert CD2 I could not remove CD1 without going to a command > line and either umount CD1 or use eject. I sure hope this is not the > standard way of the automounter system now. I had this in older releases as well, never knowing exactly why, but "eject" always opened the tray. For 10.0 I had another annoying experience just yesterday: "yast sw_single" had no unresolved dependencies (yast said). The I selected package "qcad" for installation. Again Yast had no unresolved dependencies (according to its check). Then, when accepting the software selection, Yast popped up a window with automatically slected development packages, and the bad thing there is this: You can either accept or abort that selection, resulting in either installing all or nothing. This has a very long (and bad) tradition in Yast. Didn't ttry for 10.1 yet... Regards, Ulrich - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse-factory] crash on time error
still on this very low end machine (only 76Mo ram), I got a time error (I don't really understand why). I didn't change anything to the time :-(. this took 2 hours to correct and got a hard crash. after 16 hours of install :-(. I wont fill bug reports for such things. This computer runs well with 10.0. I only try to find a way to make a very straightforward install on low end machine, kind of machines that runs quite well and are nearly free nowaday. this one could be very handy as a personal gateway (it's a mini laptop). what make me upset is that the machine runs linux very well, it's only an install problem this mail only for reporting a situation, not at all as a complain :-). If I find a way, I'll report it :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] ndiswrapper missing on the beta8 CDs
On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 13:55 -0300, Mauricio Teixeira wrote: > Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote: > > > There is a license problem. Ndiswrapper is needed for certain (windows) > > closed source network drivers which cannot be legally inserted into a GPL > > I *may* be wrong, but in this case you're not violating any license > because you OWN the hardware, and the software that comes with it. You may own the hardware but not the software, it is only licenced for use with the hardware. > > The issue about close vs GPL, is already solved, the same way as NVIDIA > drivers. I agree with this, works the same way as the NVidia and ATI drivers do. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] ndiswrapper missing on the beta8 CDs
Mauricio Teixeira schrieb: > Christoph Thiel wrote: > >>ndiswrapper was never supported, and probably never will be supported by >>SUSE / Novell. It's simply impossible for our kernel developers to debug > > Ok. Let me get this straight: you mean *SUSE kernel developers* or *main > kernel developers*? Both. > IMHO, SUSE doesn't have to care about it, considering you (the distro) > get the module and the binary working and loading, the rest is with > ndiswrapper developers. People will complain either way. If ndiswrapper works but crashes, people will say that Linux is unstable. If ndiswrapper is not shipped, people will say that Linux doesn't support their hardware. Crashes are obviously worse for the reputation of a distribution, so it makes very much sense to NOT support or encourage ndiswrapper. And most people are stubborn enough to insist that ndiswrapper is not the cause of their crashes and even falsely claim untainted kernels just to get support. This leads to loads of wasted time for SUSE and mainline kernel developers. Regards, Carl-Daniel -- http://www.hailfinger.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] ndiswrapper missing on the beta8 CDs
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
> There is a license problem. Ndiswrapper is needed for certain (windows)
> closed source network drivers which cannot be legally inserted into a GPL
I *may* be wrong, but in this case you're not violating any license
because you OWN the hardware, and the software that comes with it.
The issue about close vs GPL, is already solved, the same way as NVIDIA
drivers.
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Re: [opensuse-factory] ndiswrapper missing on the beta8 CDs
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
> Ok, packages will go on the media now,
OH! Thank you! :)
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Re: [opensuse-factory] ndiswrapper missing on the beta8 CDs
Mauricio Teixeira schrieb: > Since I can remember people work to have hardware supported, not simply > drop it (unless they find problems with licenses, which is simply not > the case). There is a license problem. Ndiswrapper is needed for certain (windows) closed source network drivers which cannot be legally inserted into a GPL kernel. So if you ship ndiswrapper, you encourage license violations. How do you intend to solve that problem? Regards, Carl-Daniel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] ndiswrapper missing on the beta8 CDs
Christoph Thiel wrote:
> ndiswrapper was never supported, and probably never will be supported by
> SUSE / Novell. It's simply impossible for our kernel developers to debug
Ok. Let me get this straight: you mean *SUSE kernel developers* or *main
kernel developers*?
IMHO, SUSE doesn't have to care about it, considering you (the distro)
get the module and the binary working and loading, the rest is with
ndiswrapper developers.
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Re: [opensuse-factory] ndiswrapper missing on the beta8 CDs
Frank-Michael Fischer wrote:
> Sometimes we just need to take into account the sheer number of
> non-native English speakers here. What Andreas meant to say most likely
I can't see why it would make me misunderstand the issue. In fact, he
didn't give a detailed explanation.
> of the two conditions: Your wlan card works out of the box or you must
> have wired internet access. The real outcome is: ndiswrapper is not
IMHO it's a shame. So I shall be forced to buy some specific cards just
because I can't have ndiswrapper on CD, although they work perfectly
with it (ndiswrapper)?
Since I can remember people work to have hardware supported, not simply
drop it (unless they find problems with licenses, which is simply not
the case).
So the question remains. If I have WLAN only, no wired net, and I need
ndiswrapper to make my net working, what should I do? It doesn't make
sense. :)
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Re: [opensuse-factory] updating factory
On 06/03/29 10:37 Henne Vogelsang apparently typed: > On Wednesday, March 29, 2006 at 10:33:50, Felix Miata wrote: >> I've been running Mandriva devel (Cooker) for several years. Last week I >> installed factory from ftp. Now I want to update. This was a simple 2 >> step process in Cooker: 1-urpmi-update -a; 2-urpmi --auto-select. The >> options in YaST Control Center don't seem to have an equivalent, and >> looking on http://en.opensuse.org/ doesn't seem to be getting me >> anywhere. Can someone please point me to instructions for how this is >> done in factory? > YaST -> System Update I tried that early on. It tells me "the installed product is not compatible with the product on the installation media. If you try to update using the current installation media, the system may not start or some applications may not run properly." Installation source is set exclusively to my closest mirror: ftp://ftp.cise.ufl.edu/pub/mirrors/suse/opensuse/distribution/SL-OSS-factory/inst-source/ -- "Blessed are they whose ways are blameless, who walk according to the law of the Lord."Psalm 119:11 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] updating factory
Hi, On Wednesday, March 29, 2006 at 10:33:50, Felix Miata wrote: > I've been running Mandriva devel (Cooker) for several years. Last week I > installed factory from ftp. Now I want to update. This was a simple 2 > step process in Cooker: 1-urpmi-update -a; 2-urpmi --auto-select. The > options in YaST Control Center don't seem to have an equivalent, and > looking on http://en.opensuse.org/ doesn't seem to be getting me > anywhere. Can someone please point me to instructions for how this is > done in factory? YaST -> System Update Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, Core Services "Rules change. The Game remains the same." - Omar (The Wire) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse-factory] updating factory
I've been running Mandriva devel (Cooker) for several years. Last week I installed factory from ftp. Now I want to update. This was a simple 2 step process in Cooker: 1-urpmi-update -a; 2-urpmi --auto-select. The options in YaST Control Center don't seem to have an equivalent, and looking on http://en.opensuse.org/ doesn't seem to be getting me anywhere. Can someone please point me to instructions for how this is done in factory? -- "Blessed are they whose ways are blameless, who walk according to the law of the Lord."Psalm 119:11 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] y2pmsh fails while upgrading
hello, On 3/28/06, Eberhard Moenkeberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > On Wed, 29 Mar 2006, Azerion wrote: > > > Bottomline: it has to be 'closed' while syncing? > > Impossible. It is syncing almost all the time, and the main purpose is to > distribute further. This works well all the time. > > Use ftp://ftp4.../prrivate/beta/SL-OSS-factory/inst-source/ as > installation source. > There the updates happen very quickly (and earlier). > > Cheers -e > -- > Eberhard Moenkeberg ([EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]) i had a simular occurance. i am running 10.0 with kde. i had the 10.0 dvd in the slot and ran u2pmsh upgrade and then commit. it pulled almost 5GB of files off of the dvd and loaded them onto my h/d...don't know why? Peace...ed -- Edward Dunagin-Dunigan 4646 Glenwood Drive Bozeman, MT 59718 mobile 406-570-0992
Re: [opensuse-factory] ndiswrapper
On Wed, Mar 29, 2006 at 07:12:51AM -0500, Kenneth Schneider wrote: > Yes, I have used this. Unfortunately my laptop no longer will read DVDs > but will read CDs. makeSUSEdvd is more makeSUSEiso. It should be perfectly possible to make a CD. As I do not have any CD's anymore to try out, I am not sure. :-/ So when you just use the first CD, you can add the extra RPM and put it on the new CD. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] opensuse-commit up & running
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > Martin Schlander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > On Wednesday 29 March 2006 13:20, Andreas Jaeger wrote: > >> And yes, this week we'll have Beta9, I've took the comments received > >> on the list into account. > > > > Don't know whether this is good or bad news - I was hoping for a > > miraculously > > stable rc1 at the end of the week ;) > > I had the same hope - but sometimes you have to face realities ;-( > > > But guess an extra beta is for the best. Thank you for listening. I think this is for the best. It makes me feel like the SUSE people are listening to us. We may not like every thing you do but doing this shows you care about the product and the community. That our reports of problems are taken seriously. Thanks for taking quality seriously. - -- Boyd Gerber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://quantumlab.net/pine_privacy_guard/ iD8DBQFEKoM+VtBjDid73eYRAsPuAJ9ndB2uFEfLSdeSMe+3U8P37mboxgCeJ2kW hyeHI1MbsmQC2HIFRTUank8= =uD2V -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] ndiswrapper
On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 07:21 +0200, houghi wrote: > On Tue, Mar 28, 2006 at 11:25:50PM -0500, Kenneth Schneider wrote: > > Hard to do that when the file is not on the beta8 CDs! Downloaded from > > factory and transfered to CD for install. > > You can use makeSUSEdvd also to make a CD and include the RPMs you like > (and have place for). Disadvatage is that you first need to know what > RPMs you might need. ;-) > Yes, I have used this. Unfortunately my laptop no longer will read DVDs but will read CDs. Which brings up another -annoying- problem with 10.1. After the install I went to install more packages, inserted CD1 and when I needed to insert CD2 I could not remove CD1 without going to a command line and either umount CD1 or use eject. I sure hope this is not the standard way of the automounter system now. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] opensuse-commit up & running
Martin Schlander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Wednesday 29 March 2006 13:20, Andreas Jaeger wrote: >> And yes, this week we'll have Beta9, I've took the comments received >> on the list into account. > > Don't know whether this is good or bad news - I was hoping for a miraculously > stable rc1 at the end of the week ;) I had the same hope - but sometimes you have to face realities ;-( > But guess an extra beta is for the best. Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 pgpiAgUTVPpJF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [opensuse-factory] opensuse-commit up & running
houghi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Wed, Mar 29, 2006 at 01:20:58PM +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote: >> > Nice to know that Beta 9 is out. ;-) >> >> It's not out yet... > > I know. I was refering to > http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse-commit/2006-Mar/0036.html > > Perhaps this is a way to know what goes out into the world and what you > might not want to tell, or at least know what questions you might get. I know, I asked for that check-in myself. ;-) > I thought it was just an internal version (like Beta 7) I shouldn't have answered, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 pgppjE9BPimjn.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [opensuse-factory] opensuse-commit up & running
On Wed, Mar 29, 2006 at 01:44:43PM +0200, houghi wrote: > On Wed, Mar 29, 2006 at 01:20:58PM +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote: > > > Nice to know that Beta 9 is out. ;-) > > > > It's not out yet... > > I know. I was refering to > http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse-commit/2006-Mar/0036.html > > Perhaps this is a way to know what goes out into the world and what you > might not want to tell, or at least know what questions you might get. > > I thought it was just an internal version (like Beta 7) The beta version is of course bumped some days before the release is done, and not as the last step before CD building. Ciao, Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] opensuse-commit up & running
On Wed, Mar 29, 2006 at 01:20:58PM +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote: > > Nice to know that Beta 9 is out. ;-) > > It's not out yet... I know. I was refering to http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse-commit/2006-Mar/0036.html Perhaps this is a way to know what goes out into the world and what you might not want to tell, or at least know what questions you might get. I thought it was just an internal version (like Beta 7) houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] opensuse-commit up & running
On Wednesday 29 March 2006 13:20, Andreas Jaeger wrote: > And yes, this week we'll have Beta9, I've took the comments received > on the list into account. Don't know whether this is good or bad news - I was hoping for a miraculously stable rc1 at the end of the week ;) But guess an extra beta is for the best. cb400f - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] opensuse-commit up & running
houghi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, Mar 28, 2006 at 04:13:38PM +0200, Christoph Thiel wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> >> we have just enabled the opensuse-commit mailinglist. It will carry all >> checkin mails for Factory. To subscribe just sent an empty mail to >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. The web archive is available at >> http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse-commit/ > > Mmm. Perhaps you should change the from or reply-to if you don't want to > recieve unneeded mail. Just a thought. > > Nice to know that Beta 9 is out. ;-) It's not out yet... And yes, this week we'll have Beta9, I've took the comments received on the list into account. I'll send out an announcement tomorrow, I need some more time to analyze the current state, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 pgpPnhT2TJ4WM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [opensuse-factory] opensuse-commit up & running
On Tue, Mar 28, 2006 at 04:13:38PM +0200, Christoph Thiel wrote: > Hello everyone, > > we have just enabled the opensuse-commit mailinglist. It will carry all > checkin mails for Factory. To subscribe just sent an empty mail to > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. The web archive is available at > http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse-commit/ Mmm. Perhaps you should change the from or reply-to if you don't want to recieve unneeded mail. Just a thought. Nice to know that Beta 9 is out. ;-) houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
