Re: Orion Difficulities....
Any chance you have an opening? ;) I wish more CTO's thought like you and realized that when programming to the J2EE standard, you don't need to spend $1K's (ok..$100K's) for software. You being a CTO I assume you are involved in the "business" side of things as well. My company (the one I work for) was nicely funded and because of that for some reason we feel we must spend tons of money so our VC's are happy. Alot of big companies use or have heard of WebLogic, and I am happy to say I learned about Orion before any of those app servers. I wish you could talk to our CTO. ;) We are finally going to deploy on Orion, but only for a short-term solution to move us off of the IIS/JRUN crap we have so many problems with. Despite the fact that I have showed him how easy it is to set up (takes me just under 5 minutes to copy the Orion dir to a new box, and our web-app dir, then run it..mostly due to network slowness). I have showed him how fast it is (7 times faster than IIS/JRUN right now..and that is only testing 1 page at a time..we haven't even got into many virutal user load-testing yet). I have explained many times that by developing with J2EE, we can easily move our app to any app server should Orion disappear, so that spending $3000 for a 2-server fail-over solution is an extremely small risk. I say, if it works, our site works, and its doing the job, why do we need to move to WebLogic or anything else. Its stupidity in my opinion. But, there is nothing I can do about it..I am a peon developer in the grand scheme of things. :) Anyways..I am glad I (and many others) are not the only ones that have realized how great a product Orion is. - Original Message - From: "Kurt Hoyt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 7:03 AM Subject: RE: Orion Difficulities > Amen. I've spent the last six months evaluating EJB servers, including > Weblogic, PowerTier, WebSphere, Secant's Extreme Server, GemStone, > SilverStream, Inprise Application Server, Jonas, JBoss, and Orion. We've > settled on Orion. > > In my mind WebLogic was one of the worst of the lot. I could never get a > simple test app running using WebLogic and gave up after three frustrating > weeks wondering how in the world they were considered the top EJB server > when you couldn't get a simple test app to work. > > Of the servers on my list, the only ones that I had success with were > PowerTier and Orion. PowerTier has a long history behind it as a C++ O/R > mapping tool. Unfortunately, they introduce a whole slew of vendor-specific > features that are guaranteed to bring on vendor lock-in. Plus, their sales > team is arrogant and their product costs an arm and two legs. > > Orion may not have all the spit-and-polish yet in the documentation arena, > but I've gotten good help from them and from this mailing list. I've already > ported most of my app that I did using trial licenses from PowerTier over to > Orion and I don't have to worry about paying through the nose just for dev > licenses and they are an order of magnitude cheaper than everyone else in > this space (other than the open source alternatives). Plus, since Orion > pretty much forces you to stay standards-compliant in your code, it is the > lowest risk choice as well: If Orion falls by the wayside, I can switch EJB > servers and I haven't blown my small start-up's venture funds on my EJB > server. > > You would be having difficulties with anyone's EJB server, just in different > places and taking up just as much time, so in the cost-benefit analysis > developer time is a wash. The bottom line is that Orion makes economic > sense, particularly in the short term, as well as technical sense. > > Kurt (in Atlanta) Hoyt > Chief Technology Officer > Exem Company > > > -Original Message- > > From: Kevin Duffey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 11:18 PM > > To: Orion-Interest > > Subject: RE: Orion Difficulities > > > For the original poster.. > > > I think you were a bit harsh to say you would remove them from your > > vendor list. I would hope that you don't give up on all tasks that > > require a little more time. Funny thing is, I can't get WebLogic 5.1 > > to get my site going. > > > I'll give you that Orion has not much in the documentation department, > > but for the most part I was able to easily set it up inside of 10 minutes. > > > Anyways, its too bad so many people give up so easily without realizing > > what a great product Orion really is. Every product has their bugs. > > The good thing is, the Orion team does a darn good job on fixing bugs > > quickly, within a few days at most.
Re: Orion Difficulities....
Title: Orion RMI Security problem Use: java -jar admin.jar ormi://blazer.youbet.com admin root -shutdown To Orion Team: put some examples in admin.jar or make them java -jar admin..jar --examples - Original Message - From: Richard Landon To: Orion-Interest Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 5:51 PM Subject: Orion Difficulities I am have some major problems with the learning curve with this server. I have previously used (succesfully) (1) J2EE RI (2) Web Logic 5.1 (3) IAS (4) Silverstream (5) Gemstone/J I start the server as follows: [C:/orion] java -jar orion.jarOrion/1.2.9 initialized I take this to mean the server is running. I then do a http://blazer.youbet.com:8080 and see the web page. (I modified the port since I'm already running Apache on port 80). For example, according to the documentation, to shutdown the server: [C:/orion] java -jar admin.jar ormi://blazer.youbet.com:8080 admin root -shutdownError: javax.naming.NamingException: Lookup error: java.io.StreamCorruptedException: Caught EOFException while reading the stream header; nested exception is: java.io.StreamCorruptedException: Caught EOFException while reading the stream header So after two-days, it is not possible to figure out how to shutdown the server. I'll try a little bit long, then remove this server from our vendor list.
RE: Orion Difficulities....
Amen. I've spent the last six months evaluating EJB servers, including Weblogic, PowerTier, WebSphere, Secant's Extreme Server, GemStone, SilverStream, Inprise Application Server, Jonas, JBoss, and Orion. We've settled on Orion. In my mind WebLogic was one of the worst of the lot. I could never get a simple test app running using WebLogic and gave up after three frustrating weeks wondering how in the world they were considered the top EJB server when you couldn't get a simple test app to work. Of the servers on my list, the only ones that I had success with were PowerTier and Orion. PowerTier has a long history behind it as a C++ O/R mapping tool. Unfortunately, they introduce a whole slew of vendor-specific features that are guaranteed to bring on vendor lock-in. Plus, their sales team is arrogant and their product costs an arm and two legs. Orion may not have all the spit-and-polish yet in the documentation arena, but I've gotten good help from them and from this mailing list. I've already ported most of my app that I did using trial licenses from PowerTier over to Orion and I don't have to worry about paying through the nose just for dev licenses and they are an order of magnitude cheaper than everyone else in this space (other than the open source alternatives). Plus, since Orion pretty much forces you to stay standards-compliant in your code, it is the lowest risk choice as well: If Orion falls by the wayside, I can switch EJB servers and I haven't blown my small start-up's venture funds on my EJB server. You would be having difficulties with anyone's EJB server, just in different places and taking up just as much time, so in the cost-benefit analysis developer time is a wash. The bottom line is that Orion makes economic sense, particularly in the short term, as well as technical sense. Kurt (in Atlanta) Hoyt Chief Technology Officer Exem Company > -Original Message- > From: Kevin Duffey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 11:18 PM > To: Orion-Interest > Subject: RE: Orion Difficulities > For the original poster.. > I think you were a bit harsh to say you would remove them from your > vendor list. I would hope that you don't give up on all tasks that > require a little more time. Funny thing is, I can't get WebLogic 5.1 > to get my site going. > I'll give you that Orion has not much in the documentation department, > but for the most part I was able to easily set it up inside of 10 minutes. > Anyways, its too bad so many people give up so easily without realizing > what a great product Orion really is. Every product has their bugs. > The good thing is, the Orion team does a darn good job on fixing bugs > quickly, within a few days at most.
Re: Orion Difficulities....
Hello Richard, Well, the documentation has so far assumed that the user understands the concept of different URL schemes and different protocols (like http://, ftp:// or ormi://) and understand that they are not the same thing and use different ports, but that you normally don't need to specify the port unless you change something. We will somehow explain this in the FAQ to avoid more confusion about this. However, there is a reason why there is no admin port mentioned in the documentation. It's simply because no special admin port exists. The admin traffic use the regular ormi port. Regards, Karl Avedal Richard Landon wrote: > Wow, thanks. Perhaps, I'm lame, but that was not obvious in the > documentation? > > > -Original Message- > From: Jason von Nieda [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 4:09 PM > To: Orion-Interest > Subject: Re: Orion Difficulities > Remove the port (8080) from your ormi URL. The admin port is > different from the web port and is configuredin > orion/config/rmi.xml > > - Original Message - > From:Richard Landon > To: Orion-Interest > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 4:51 PM > Subject: Orion Difficulities > I am have some major problems with the learning > curve with this server. I have previously used > (succesfully)(1) J2EE RI(2) Web Logic 5.1(3) > IAS(4) Silverstream(5) Gemstone/JI start the > server as follows:[C:/orion] java -jar orion.jar > Orion/1.2.9 initializedI take this to mean the > server is running.I then do a > http://blazer.youbet.com:8080 and see the web > page.(I modified the port since I'm already > running Apache on port 80).For example, according > to the documentation, to shutdown the > server:[C:/orion] java -jar admin.jar > ormi://blazer.youbet.com:8080 admin root -shutdown > > Error: javax.naming.NamingException: Lookup error: > java.io.StreamCorruptedException: Caught > EOFException while reading t > he stream header; nested exception is: > java.io.StreamCorruptedException: Caught > EOFException while reading the stream header > So after two-days, it is not possible to figure > out how to shutdown the server.I'll try a little > bit long, then remove this server from our vendor > list. >
Re: Orion Difficulities....
>Wow, thanks. Perhaps, I'm lame, but that was not obvious in the >documentation? I agree it is not obvious from what they call documentation. However, thinking about it twice, it makes a lot of sense that an admin tool does not talk to the HTTP port, but instead to a dedicated RMI port. Been there myself, and everywhere else. regards, Chris
RE: Orion Difficulities....
Title: Orion RMI Security problem
For
the original poster..
I
think you were a bit harsh to say you would remove them from your vendor list. I
would hope that you don't give up on all tasks that require a little more time.
Funny thing is, I can't get WebLogic 5.1 to get my site going. I have done a
number of different things, including a WebLogic tech guy who can't get my
"easy" J2EE .war formatted web site to run. I finally got JSP pages to compile,
but then it couldn't find any of my classes. I thought I read that anything in
the WEB-INF/classes and WEB-INF/lib file is supposed to be automatically in your
classpath by the app server. So, if for example you call upon a class
com.mycompany.package.Class, and its in the
/classes/com/mycompany/package/Class.class, you should be able to access it
without having to do anything special in the environment of the OS your in, or
adding classpath information when starting WebLogic. Apparently this isn't so,
and its been a bitch to set up.
I'll
give you that Orion has not much in the documentation department, but for the
most part I was able to easily set it up inside of 10 minutes. It is the only
app server to fully support J2EE completely, even over WebLogic 5.1. It also now
supports EJB 2.0 and Servlet 2.3. Yes..they are early, based on the not yet
finalized specs, but still..
Anyways, its too bad so many people give up so easily
without realizing what a great product Orion really is. Every product has their
bugs. The good thing is, the Orion team does a darn good job on fixing bugs
quickly, within a few days at most.
-Original Message-From: Richard Landon
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 5:49
PMTo: Orion-InterestSubject: RE: Orion
Difficulities
Wow,
thanks. Perhaps, I'm lame, but that was not obvious in the
documentation?
-Original Message-From: Jason von Nieda
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 4:09
PMTo: Orion-InterestSubject: Re: Orion
Difficulities
Remove the port (8080) from your ormi URL. The admin port
is different from the web port and is configured
in orion/config/rmi.xml
- Original Message -
From:
Richard
Landon
To: Orion-Interest
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 4:51
PM
Subject: Orion
Difficulities
I am have some major problems with the learning
curve with this server. I have previously used
(succesfully)
(1) J2EE RI
(2) Web Logic 5.1
(3) IAS
(4) Silverstream
(5) Gemstone/J
I start the server as
follows:
[C:/orion] java -jar orion.jarOrion/1.2.9
initialized
I take this to mean the server is
running.
I then do a http://blazer.youbet.com:8080 and
see the web page.
(I modified the port since I'm already running
Apache on port 80).
For example, according to the documentation, to
shutdown the server:
[C:/orion] java -jar admin.jar
ormi://blazer.youbet.com:8080 admin root -shutdownError:
javax.naming.NamingException: Lookup error:
java.io.StreamCorruptedException: Caught EOFException while reading
the stream header; nested exception
is:
java.io.StreamCorruptedException: Caught EOFException while reading the
stream header
So after two-days, it is not possible to figure
out how to shutdown the server.
I'll try a little bit long, then remove this
server from our vendor list.
RE: Orion Difficulities....
Title: Orion RMI Security problem Wow, thanks. Perhaps, I'm lame, but that was not obvious in the documentation? -Original Message-From: Jason von Nieda [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 4:09 PMTo: Orion-InterestSubject: Re: Orion Difficulities Remove the port (8080) from your ormi URL. The admin port is different from the web port and is configured in orion/config/rmi.xml - Original Message - From: Richard Landon To: Orion-Interest Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 4:51 PM Subject: Orion Difficulities I am have some major problems with the learning curve with this server. I have previously used (succesfully) (1) J2EE RI (2) Web Logic 5.1 (3) IAS (4) Silverstream (5) Gemstone/J I start the server as follows: [C:/orion] java -jar orion.jarOrion/1.2.9 initialized I take this to mean the server is running. I then do a http://blazer.youbet.com:8080 and see the web page. (I modified the port since I'm already running Apache on port 80). For example, according to the documentation, to shutdown the server: [C:/orion] java -jar admin.jar ormi://blazer.youbet.com:8080 admin root -shutdownError: javax.naming.NamingException: Lookup error: java.io.StreamCorruptedException: Caught EOFException while reading the stream header; nested exception is: java.io.StreamCorruptedException: Caught EOFException while reading the stream header So after two-days, it is not possible to figure out how to shutdown the server. I'll try a little bit long, then remove this server from our vendor list.
Re: Orion Difficulities....
Title: Orion RMI Security problem Remove the port (8080) from your ormi URL. The admin port is different from the web port and is configured in orion/config/rmi.xml - Original Message - From: Richard Landon To: Orion-Interest Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 4:51 PM Subject: Orion Difficulities I am have some major problems with the learning curve with this server. I have previously used (succesfully) (1) J2EE RI (2) Web Logic 5.1 (3) IAS (4) Silverstream (5) Gemstone/J I start the server as follows: [C:/orion] java -jar orion.jarOrion/1.2.9 initialized I take this to mean the server is running. I then do a http://blazer.youbet.com:8080 and see the web page. (I modified the port since I'm already running Apache on port 80). For example, according to the documentation, to shutdown the server: [C:/orion] java -jar admin.jar ormi://blazer.youbet.com:8080 admin root -shutdownError: javax.naming.NamingException: Lookup error: java.io.StreamCorruptedException: Caught EOFException while reading the stream header; nested exception is: java.io.StreamCorruptedException: Caught EOFException while reading the stream header So after two-days, it is not possible to figure out how to shutdown the server. I'll try a little bit long, then remove this server from our vendor list.
RE: Orion Difficulities....
Title: Orion RMI Security problem -Original Message-From: Richard Landon Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 2:59 PMTo: 'Orion-Interest'Subject: Orion Difficulities I am have some major problems with the learning curve with this server. I have previously used (succesfully) (1) J2EE RI (2) Web Logic 5.1 (3) IAS (4) Silverstream (5) Gemstone/J I start the server as follows: [C:/orion] java -jar orion.jarOrion/1.2.9 initialized I take this to mean the server is running. I then do a http://blazer.youbet.com:8080 and see the web page. (I modified the port since I'm already running Apache on port 80). For example, according to the documentation, to shutdown the server: [C:/orion] java -jar admin.jar ormi://blazer.youbet.com:8080 admin root -shutdownError: javax.naming.NamingException: Lookup error: java.io.StreamCorruptedException: Caught EOFException while reading the stream header; nested exception is: java.io.StreamCorruptedException: Caught EOFException while reading the stream header So after two-days, it is not possible to figure out how to shutdown the server. I'll try a little bit long, then remove this server from our vendor list.
Orion Difficulities....
Title: Orion RMI Security problem I am have some major problems with the learning curve with this server. I have previously used (succesfully) (1) J2EE RI (2) Web Logic 5.1 (3) IAS (4) Silverstream (5) Gemstone/J I start the server as follows: [C:/orion] java -jar orion.jarOrion/1.2.9 initialized I take this to mean the server is running. I then do a http://blazer.youbet.com:8080 and see the web page. (I modified the port since I'm already running Apache on port 80). For example, according to the documentation, to shutdown the server: [C:/orion] java -jar admin.jar ormi://blazer.youbet.com:8080 admin root -shutdownError: javax.naming.NamingException: Lookup error: java.io.StreamCorruptedException: Caught EOFException while reading the stream header; nested exception is: java.io.StreamCorruptedException: Caught EOFException while reading the stream header So after two-days, it is not possible to figure out how to shutdown the server. I'll try a little bit long, then remove this server from our vendor list.
