RE: [ozmidwifery] From Claudia.

[Neretlis, Bethany]

dear claudia, i think WA has direct entry registration now, as we have direct entry 
programs in Aus now.  To be more clear, contact the nurses board of wa (probably have 
a web site).  I work in a hosp with close to 1000 births a year, mostly low risk, some 
moderate to high risk, depending on the risks themselves.  the midwives can rotate or 
work in all areas from antenatal clinics, to Visiting Midwifery Service in the 
community. we do not have caseload, however, our staffing is reasonably flexible, 
other than a 3- 4 monthly rotation thru nights for 2 weeks.  the education system is 
pretty good, with both government and private funded schools(equil to public schools) 
obviously, some areas and some schools are better than others depending on where you 
settle -- for the gov schools especially. i previously lived in qld, though not as a 
midwife. schools there are the same as here, other than the two states have a 
different system for uni entrance scores in years 11 & 12. hope this helps
 
bethany

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anglodutch NTL Account
Sent: Thursday, 10 June 2004 23:55
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] From Claudia.


Hi all.
 
My name is Claudia and I work as a midwife in the UK. However, I am searching for jobs 
in Australia and hoping to move to Oz by the end of this year. I have a husband and 2 
children who are coming with me and our preferred places to live would be either 
Western Australia or Queensland, providing we can find any midwifery jobs in either 
state. As I am a direct entry midwife without nursing qualifications, it's proving a 
bit tricky to find jobs in the areas we are interested in. 
 
If there are any midwives out there, in WA or Queensland who would like to tell me a 
bit more about what midwifery is like overthere, I would love to receive some 
feedback. I currently work in a caseload system, doing antenatal and postnatal care in 
the community, and delivering most of our clients in hospital, although we do 
homebirths as well. I work in London, in a very multicultural area, and the majority 
of our women would seem to be high risk! I sometimes wonder what's happened to normal 
birth 
 
I gather that I won't have much of a chance of doing community midwifery in Australia 
- perhaps even less in Queensland than in WA. How family friendly is the midwifery 
profession? I have seen quite a few advertisements for self rostering/flexible shift 
hours, etc. but is that universal or does it only exist in isolated pockets? What sort 
of a mix of high/low risk women do you get in various areas? 
 
And if there's anybody out there with children, please tell me what you think of the 
education system. I have a 12 year old and a 10 year old (both boys). We are hoping to 
get to Australia by January next year at the latest so that my oldest can start 
secondary school at the beginning of the school year. Having completed a year in 
secondary school in England already, his favourite subjects appear to be Science, 
Maths and French!
 
If there any midwives reading this who have moved to Australia themselves recently 
(particularly if you moved from England), I would love to hear of your migration 
experiences.
 
Look forward to hearing from you!
 
Claudia.

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RE: [ozmidwifery] bumper stickers

[Neretlis, Bethany]

I think printing a few different stickers would be good, maybe some pushing the 
political angle and some not.
 
Just a quick comment about the $1100 for 5 mins. It was at a private hospital, so was 
the womans choice to be there and accept the charges that apply. At least she got a Dr 
who kept his nose out where it wasn't needed. I agree that the system needs looking 
at, but as things stand, do private hospitals get reviewed anyway, other than 
accreditation?
 
regards, bethany

-Original Message-
From: Liz Newnham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 March 2004 09:23
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] bumper stickers


Jen, what a great idea. I had a "start life with a midwife" sticker on my old car, and 
I miss it! It is a subtle consciousness-raising message. However, lots of the others 
you and others have mentioned are good too. Maybe print a few different messages?
Liz

- Original Message - 
From: Jen   Semple 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 5:28 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] bumper stickers

Seeking in-put from MC branches around Oz, consumer organisations, ASIM, etc...
 
ACMI is looking at printing bumper stickers & there's interest from Midwives in 
Private Practice (MIPP in Victoria) & possibly MC (Vic) going in together to do 
a massive print to reduce costs, have heaps of the same stickers floating around on 
cars all around Oz, etc.

Janine Clark (ACMI national student rep) & I are looking at organising this... if 
anyone has any suggestions please let us know!

One question to think about/dicuss is if all of these 
organisations (ACMI, MC, MIPP, ASIM, etc) are keen to get stickers together, each 
sticker is not going to be able to have each organisation's name on it.  So I think 
each organisation needs to discuss why they want the stickers... to promote the 
organisation or to promote midwifery/birth reform (or other goal I haven't thought 
of!).
 
If the goal is to promote midwifery/birth reform, maybe they could all have the MC 
website on them since that's the umbrella organisation.  If the goal is to promote the 
specific organisation, then I'm not really sure how this could be done.

Does anyone have any thoughts/feelings/ideas?

I've collated a list of suggested slogans below, but before slogans are debated, it's 
probably more important to discuss goals & priorities.

Jen


"Push for birth reform"

"I want 1-to-1 midwifery care"

"Midwives help people out"

"Women in the know know a midwife" 

The NZ College of Midwives sell 3 stickers for around $1 each:

- Start life with a midwife

- I chose carefully, I chose a midwife

- I'm a midwife

Midwives Care! -Naturally!-

PROUD TO BE A MIDWIFE

SAY HELLO TO A MIDWIFE

"midwives do it for life"

"midwives do it .. naturally"

'human milk for hu! man babies'

"the goddess or the birth machine - your choice"

peace on earth begins at birth

Midwives: saving the earth, one baby at at time 




  _  

Find local movie times and trailers on  
 Yahoo! Movies.


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RE: [ozmidwifery] C/S

[Neretlis, Bethany]

just have to add my bit. the hospital i work 
at (WA), we only go to recovery if the c/s has been under G/A. If under 
epidural, the woman cuddling babe on the bed, get wheeled straight back to the 
ward, and 'recovered' there. no seperation at all, other than the initial check 
over with the paed. if babe requires care in the nursery, then is taken back to 
the ward/nursery seperately to mum, and if she has a GA then mum goes to 
recovery and babe and support person return to ward, while mum is sutured and 
goes to recovery.
 
love bethany

  -Original 
  Message-From: Rhonda 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, 9 December 2003 
  11:56To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] C/S
  


  
Don't know about Qld but I heard today that they are going to 
increase private health insurance because claims for damages are going 
to be regulated - there has to be 5% permanent physical damage or 10% 
mental damage for a claim to be made.
Can't imagine how this is going to affect childbirth.
 
As a body piercer who has just been through the ringer with a case 
that was a big fraud and the guy won and got a lot (sending us broke) 
 even though we did nothing - could not see how we could loose but 
hey - biased judge and bad barristor and what do you get!  A really 
dodgy result where every piece of evidence that contradicted him was 
brushed over or just not mentioned.   Oh - they forgot thast 
bit coz it didn't fit!  LOL 
 This new law will protect me from claims but - what about 
ob's?
But, the legal system and civil cases are not closely linked - law 
does not realy come into civil matters - you don't need proof just need 
to have a better sob story.
 
Hmm - once again disolutioned by our 'wonderful' society.

Rhonda
 
---Original 
Message---
 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, 
December 09, 2003 12:37:48
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: 
[ozmidwifery] C/S
 
Without being able to say too much we may 
have a law suit about to happen in Qld by a couple who were insensed to 
find they had been coerced into a C/S to find there was nothing wrong 
with their baby. Not only that, the info I have says the father has 
evidence that the CTG trace was not as bad as it was made out 
to be and that the partogram which he saw initially was later 
changed. 
 
I think they may have bitten off more than 
they can chew. The husband is outraged and is intending to take legal 
action.
 
Hopefully we will hear more 
soon.
Dierdre B.
 

  

  
  


  
  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click 
  Here 
<>

RE: [ozmidwifery] fetal heart in labour

[Neretlis, Bethany]

the only reason to listen to the fh is to assess for fetal wellbeing/coping with the 
stress of labour. the reason you listen before during and after a contraction (not 
everytime, possibly, but certainly if there is any decelerations noted) is to get a 
good'feel' of what the heart rate is doing. i agree that some perfectly normal fh 
patterns can sound scary, however if you KNOW this baby and what it is doing in 
response to labour, you are much better at judging what is happening in regards to any 
decelerations, and consequently, are much less likely to over-react to 'scary' fh 
patterns.

love Bethany 

-Original Message-
From: Mary Murphy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2003 16:57
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] fetal heart in labour


I acknowledge that Lesley & I are at odds on this question.  The informed choice 
guidelines ask some very important questions: "How do fetal heart rate patterns 
reflect foetal compromise?  The understanding and interpretation of variations in the 
foetal heart rate are still in it's infancy."  My observation is that there has been 
more harm done to mothers and babies from overzealous monitoring of foetal heart tones 
and the reaction to normal patterns that sound scary, than there has been from the 
more traditional frequency of auscultation. Denise asks a very valid question:
"when does intermittent auscultation become continuous auscultation (listening after 
every contraction?) and an intervention in normal progress of birth?? " Cheers, MM

I would really appreciate some opinions on frequency of listening to the FH in labour, 
particularly the second stage. I've always listened in every half hour in early 
labour, 15 minutely in cracking labour and after every contraction (and through some 
of them) in the second stage. I know of some midwives who do not feel this is 
necessary and so I'd love to hear more opinions. What I wonder is if the FH is not 
being listened in to how would you know whether to expedite the birth? Also if the 
worst happened how would it stand up in court?
Thanks
Lesley
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Birthing pools

[Neretlis, Bethany]

i cant quite picture how this looks. Do all the panels go around or are some the base? 
How do you do 7 panals if they are in pairs?

love Bethany 

-Original Message-
From: Mary Murphy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 October 2003 19:49
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birthing pools


I wrote: "When in a hurry or a poor hot water supply, then 7 panels, or for quick 
multips, 3 panels, makes a great smaller birthing  pool."  Obviously I meant 6 panels. 
(3 pairs)  sorry for the confusion.  3 panels would be a good baby bath.  MM
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Hypnobirthing

[Neretlis, Bethany]

i agree mary.
 it often seems like some women have a self fulfilling prophesy about their birth. 
During my last birthing, the woman had had a three hr labour after a srom. This time 
all she wanted was an arm so she would have her baby quickly, like last time. Earlier 
gestation, different baby, and labour, and a longer timeframe, for which she was not 
mentally prepared.  Full effacement and softening of her cervix, slow dilation 
(changed from 2cm to 4cm over 12 hrs); arm by dr and delivered baby 50 min later 

love Bethany


-Original Message-
From: Mary Murphy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, 1 November 2003 14:55
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hypnobirthing


>From  a paralell discussion on a/n education on another list
..."Interestingly, this morning I was reading the abstract of an article
written by Robbie Davis-Floyd entitled 'Mind Over Body: The Pregnant
Professional'.The article was published in the Journal of Prenatal &
Perinatal Psychology &Health in 1994 vol. 8(3) p. 201-228.

31 middle class women were interviewed about pregnancy, birth, childrearing
&
career. A predominant theme was the women's views of their body as something
to be controlled. They felt out of control during pregnancy & birth. They
demand pain relief and are happy with intervention as long as they feel in
control about decisions.

I wonder - what have women decided before they even attend antenatal
classes?
What are the beliefs behind what they say they want during class time. Are
they aligned?

What lies behind the proclamation "I knew this was going to happen!" after a
fully dilated labouring woman agrees to a recommended c/s? Is she in tune
with
what is happening inside her body or had she unknowingly guided the
decision?"


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RE: [ozmidwifery] Another unec. C-section...

[Neretlis, Bethany]

f was somewhat prohibitive. Not much is
>made
>> of this in the official critiques of this now perceived benchmark
>> study
>and
>> as a result women are misinformed and disempowered through a lack of
>> information.
>>
>> In the case for elective caesareans this would be the same, a unit
>> where
>the
>> randomisation of women to that extent could occur is not very likely
>> to be an actively birthing women centered unit? Now if we can only
>> remove the messy hit or miss act of conception by a controlled
>> trialbut then there is sometimes a lack of experience in
>this
>> department too for many...LOL
>>
>>
>> Love and Peace
>> Nigel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Lynne Staff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Sunday, 19 October 2003 09:45
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald
>>
>>
>> "there is this trial which gives you a 50-50 chance of totally
>> avoiding
>all
>> this pain"
>> A father-to-be I saw the other day, whose wife has had 2 caesareans
>> (and
>is
>> having the devil of a time finding anyone to support her for a planned
>
>> vaginal birth), made the very pertinent point that 'natural' (read
>vaginal)
>> birth is ALWAYS portrayed as the worst pain a woman can ever have -
>> too terrible to contemplate, unbearable and totally avoidable, while
>> the portrayal of caesarean birth is ALWAYS pain-free, peaceful, smiles
>
>> all round.etc
>>
>> Should publish some photos/stories of infected wounds, blood loss, how
>women
>> vomit when their uterus is pulled outside their abdominal cavity,
>> because
>it
>> is easier to suture, the trouble they have accessing their babies
>> because
>of
>> the physical limitation of spinals and post-op pain (although that is
>> becoming such an art that it is very 'manageable' nowadays), babies
>> with lacerations on their face or buttocks, babies on oxygen,
>> sometimes for a week, and the separation that goes with thatas you
>
>> can see this is a sore point with me.
>>
>> This trial disturbs me greatly for many reasons - but it's not just
>> the trial (although if the findings are that women like it better,
>> that it is
>as
>> safe), then God help us! The wholehearted embracing of the findings of
>
>> the term breech trial (which scares the living daylights out of me)
>> will pale into significance compared to this (and the findings from
>> the term breech trial will be no doubt used to substantiate the
>> rationale of this trial in the first place)
>>
>> As I see it, one of the biggest probblems is the way information is
>provided
>> to the women in any 'obstetric' situation. I can imagine the way the
>> information will be provided for this. Major heebeejeebies.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Neretlis, Bethany" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 6:38 PM
>> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald
>>
>>
>> > we have been discussing this article too, or an offshoot from perth.
>
>> > it
>> seems to me to be a further automatic kneejerk reaction to litigation
>> from those experts at strange who are from the usa. i can just see
>> some
>insurance
>> company paying for this research, and unfortunately i can even see
>> some women being manovoured into it. can't you see some ob. finding a
>> scared pregnant woman who is vasilating over whether she wants to
>> suffer pain in labour and saying "there is this trial which gives you
>> a 50-50 chance of totally avoiding all this pain" it just
>> makes you cry. i have run into this attitude towards vaginal birth
>> amoung surgeons and anaethatists when i worked in theatre so its not
>> too far a stretch of the imagination
>to
>> see where this came from. just the idea of someone being serious aout
>> this research gives me the heeijeebies. it would be so immoral to
>> do this
>to
>> women. i'm sure that the researchers could somehow write it to pass an
>
>> ethics board, how i don't know, but they'd get some ethics lawyer
>> involved and before you know it , white isn't white at all, its black.
>> >
>> > love Bethany
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Justine Caines [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > 

RE: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald

[Neretlis, Bethany]

we have been discussing this article too, or an offshoot from perth. it seems to me to 
be a further automatic kneejerk reaction to litigation from those experts at strange 
who are from the usa. i can just see some insurance company paying for this research, 
and unfortunately i can even see some women being manovoured into it. can't you see 
some ob. finding a scared pregnant woman who is vasilating over whether she wants to 
suffer pain in labour and saying "there is this trial which gives you a 50-50 chance 
of totally avoiding all this pain" it just makes you cry. i have run into this 
attitude towards vaginal birth amoung surgeons and anaethatists when i worked in 
theatre so its not too far a stretch of the imagination to see where this came from. 
just the idea of someone being serious aout this research gives me the heeijeebies. it 
would be so immoral to do this to women. i'm sure that the researchers could 
somehow write it to pass an ethics board, how i don't know, but they'd get some ethics 
lawyer involved and before you know it , white isn't white at all, its black.

love Bethany 

-Original Message-
From: Justine Caines [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, 17 October 2003 16:00
To: OzMid List
Subject: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald


Hi All

The SMH have confirmed the following letter will appear in tomorrow's paper.

Justine


As soon as safety is mentioned in obstetrics by Obstetricians there's a mad rush.

What they neglect to inform us is that many of their practices are not based on 
evidence and that despite huge medical intervention, safety has not improved in 
Australia.  In fact the latest data on maternal deaths saw an increase.  This study 
represents a very sad fringe of the medical profession.

A woman is 4-5 times more likely to die from a caesarean section than from a normal 
vaginal birth.  A figure quoted in the last Senate Committee report into childbirth 
procedures.  It is also well noted that surgical intervention in birth increases 
post-natal depression.  With a C/S rate 2.5 times higher than the World Health 
Organisation recommends, high incidences of post-natal depression and no report into 
what seems to be a high incidence of maternal morbidity, this study would be highly 
unethical and a denial of a woman's most basic human right.
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RE: [ozmidwifery] endometriosis quilt email bombardment

[Neretlis, Bethany]

haven't recieved any emails on this

love  Bethany 

-Original Message-
From: Graham and Helen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 13 October 2003 18:20
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] endometriosis quilt email bombardment


I have received 5 emails now from Robert Speyer re the endometriosis quilt and am 
wondering why?!!! Is everyone else on the list getting bombarded with 
these emails? - they are addressed to "multiple recipients of list UPDATE".  If so, I 
don't think it is ethical for our names to be given out so freely like this.  If they 
are, then I for one don't wish to receive multiple emails pushing an issue no matter 
how legitimate a cause.  

How does everyone else feel?

Helen Cahill
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Ultra sound SD ratios

[Neretlis, Bethany]

Hi Claudia, we had an IOl due to iugr and an elevated s/d ratio. we also didn't quite 
understand what that meant, so i tried to look it up on the internet. i found one 
article that was about iugr, which healped a bit. Systolic/Diastolic ratio is 
determined when they are doing a flow wave picture of the pressures within the 
umbilical artery. the ratio is the differences between the peak of the wave ( the 
systolic pressure reading) and the trough of the wave ( the diastolic reading). I 
gathered that the s/d ratio is a bit like blood pressure, so a raised s/d ratio would 
be bad as the babys bp would be raised due to placental problems in this instance. the 
change in the s/d ratio is a worsening step in the path of iugr which, if severe 
enough, would eventually lead to feotal death. Please can anyone else tell me if i 
have got this correctly. the article was a bit hard to understand when trying to get a 
concept for which they assumed readers would already be conversant with.

love Bethany 

-Original Message-
From: Claudia van Duyn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, 29 August 2003 12:13
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Ultra sound SD ratios


Hello fellow midwives  Could someone please inform me on the significance of the 
umbilical artery SD ratio.

Background - a client has a slightly raised SD ratio.  Client reports that at the 
ultra sound the SD ratio was normally around 3 - 3.6 and one was 5.7.

I am baffled and would really appreciate some information on this.  I questioned the 
Doctor - he is also unsure but not concerned.

Claudia




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RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw:info please

[Neretlis, Bethany]

dear tina
1) the effects of the drugs are varied. there is more risk of malformation with heroin 
use than speed, however both will cause the babe to withdraw after birth. it will be 
better for the babe if she breastfeeds as the babe will get small doses through the 
breastmilk, and soften the withdrawal. i have worked witha lot of term mums and babes 
during the postnatal period. other than the withdrawal period, which can be very 
severe, i am not aware of the longer term effects on the babe. there is a much greater 
risk of m/c due to FDIU or malformation.
2) there is no effect from the herpes unless she has a current outbreak at term and 
delivers vaginally. then the babe is greatly effected. if she has an outbreak then she 
needs to have a c/s. it is possible to have medicationto reduce the risk of an 
outbreak as she nears term is she wants, and has seen her antenatal dr.
3)i am not sure of the risks of hep c transferral accross the placenta.  postnatally, 
there are proceedures to reduce the risks.
4)she needs to go to a tertiary hospital for her care as they will have the best 
antenatal and postnatal care for her, and programms in place to deal with her type of 
high risk pregnancy.
5)it is very unlikely that any treatment from 2 years ago will have any effect now 
unless she is still using the medication.
6)there are more problems for the babe after birth from a disfuctional family. however 
there isn't much to be done other than keep a close eye on the babe and the mum it 
ensure there are no violence or neglect issues, which are prevelent in this type of 
situation.

good luck in this very heart wrenching situation.

love  Bethany 

-Original Message-
From: M & T Holroyd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, 15 August 2003 17:16
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw:info please



- Original Message - 
From: M & T Holroyd 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 6:06 PM
Subject: Fw: Fw:info please


Hi, trying again.  Tina H.

- Original Message - 
From: M & T Holroyd 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 2:45 PM
Subject: Fw:info please


Hi, I tried this last week but had h**p in the wrong place.  Tina H.

- Original Message - 
From: M & T Holroyd 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 9:56 PM
Subject: info please


Hi,  I have an urgent question from a friend of mine (J).  Her sister who is 21yo. has 
just found out she is about 1.5 to 2 months pregnant (she found out 1 week ago).  J is 
concerned because her sister had a Hx of IV drug use since approx 17yo, she also has 
Hep C (diagnosed 3 years ago).  To add to this she smokes (has cut back a little since 
discovering her pregnancy) & uses pot as well (was regular but my friend is unsure if 
still regular).  J just found out today that her sister is still using speed (more so 
than heroin) & heroin.  Her sister is very happy about her pregnancy, as is her 
partner.  Sister suffers severe depression (also family Hx of schitzophrenia), has 
regular severe ups & downs, and at the moment is extremely tired & morning sick.  Her 
partner also has anger management issues, is posessive & also uses drugs.  To top this 
off, she is also suffering a current outbreak of genital herpes & used ? roaccutane 
(unsure of spelling, but used for acne) last 2 years ago.  J was initally happy 
(trying to be positive) for her sister (though worried) but since finding out about 
the speed & heroin has become very concerned about affects on pregnancy & baby.  J's 
parents are distraught & want her sister to have a ternmination.  J is well educated & 
has given her sister a list of very important things to do straight away but says that 
she is unreliable & when did go to GP today, did not mention her drug use.

This all sounds so strange to me because I have never cared for someone in this 
position, so had no answers for J.  So J's questions are:

1.  How might the different drugs affect this baby / pregnancy?
2.  What effects might the herpes have on this pregnancy?
3.  What effects will the Hep C. have on this baby (& transmission risks)?
4.  Who would be the best care providers for this woman what specialists & 
resources should she access (& does the new ?Phoenix 
 project at the RWH in Brisbane cover someone in this type of high risk group)?
5.  Will the acne treatment 2 years ago still have any effects?
6.  Any comments on something she has not thought of.

J & I both would appreciate your input (please, please, please).  

Thankyou all,

Tina H.  Brisbane. (Hope not to many mistakes, feeding babe whilst typing)
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal Examination

[Neretlis, Bethany]

ive not made this mistake but have had another midwife chech  ve's as i was very 
unsure of a similar situation. as other have said try not to beat yourself up over it, 
we have all done something similar at one time or another. it is an excellent goad to 
try not to repeat the mistake though. i have come up with a few little tricks to 
ensure i don't make mistakes i have made in the past again.

love  Bethany


-Original Message-
From: Andrea Quanchi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 31 July 2003 19:10
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal Examination


Jean
You are certainly not alone in this as sometimes it can be really hard 
to tell what you are feeling. Sometimes you put your fingers into the 
anterior fornix and can feel the head through the vaginal wall which is 
stretched so thin that you can hardly feel it. You feel the baby so well 
that the natural assumption is that you are in the cervix. In this case 
the cervix is often so posterior that you cant find it without making 
the woman really uncomfortable.  I'd like to meet the midwife who can 
claim never to have made this mistake.  Practice wil help and I would 
suggest starting with women who are likely to be more dilated and 
therfore easier to ascertain. then work backwards.  Even better have 
someone who is confident do the VE first and then have them talk you 
through what they could feel as you are doing it.  This is a really good 
way to realise what you are actually feeling.  The trouble with all this 
is that none of it is good for the woman as it often interrupts the flow 
of the labour.
If you can discuss it with the women before they are in labour it might 
be easier for everyone.  Women understand the need for us to learn and 
are usually more than willing to co operate if it is approached in the 
right way.

Andrea Q
On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 07:17 PM, Steve Docherty wrote:

>
> I would like to ask any midwives if they have ever completly stuffed up 
> a vaginal examination as I would dearly love some reassurance that I'm 
> not going completly mad. I have been a partime Midwife for 4 years, 
> have not had a lot of labour ward experience but enough to not make 
> stupid mistakes.
> I was looking after a primip who had SROM at term the day before and 
> was having niggly contractions 2-3-in10. I was looking after her 
> overnight, she was a private patient . She had had some pethidine 
> overnight to get some sleep and the idea was to start syntocinon in the 
> am if she hadn't got into active labour. Four hours after the pethidine 
> wore off this was about 0500am  she was wanting some more pain relief 
> and  was considering an epidural before the syntocinon started. I 
> suggested doing a vaginal examination as she looked as though things 
> were picking up slightly. I did a v.e. and thought I felt 5cm dilated. 
> fully effaced -1. I handed this over to the day shift and anther 
> vaginal examination wasnt done until 6 hours later, at this exam she 
> was 2cm posterior 0.5 cm thick -2 .
> I keep asking myself what was I feeling to get my result?. It did cross 
> my mind that she was too comfortable looking  but this can be deceiving 
> at times. I probably didnt go posteriorly enough , but I thought I 
> felt  the rim of the cervix in the mid position???. I'm now not on 
> labour ward as I rotate so cannot do more vaginal exams to help myself 
> feel more confident. I will just have to wait until I work on labour 
> ward again and do some much needed practise. The woman went on to have 
> syntocinon and an epidural and had a ventouse delivery early the 
> following morning. I have apologised to the woman and she was very 
> forgiving but I still feel very angry with myself for extending her 
> time of induction.
>
> Thanks for reading
>
> Jean
>
>

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Any ideas for research and mosiac?

[Neretlis, Bethany]

jo, i can't think of any research ideas at the moment. however, and idea for
artwork i have been meaning to do myself but as a sculpture is the classic
breastfeeding mother looking down on her babe, bubs hand on mothers breast.

love  Bethany 

-Original Message-
From: Lois Wattis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, 2 August 2003 15:06
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Any ideas for research and mosiac?


Hi Jo!  (HUG!!)  Great to hear from you. 
Idea's for a Masters.. hmmm - how about something about vitamin K
administration (especially intramuscular injection at birth), and it's
(suspected) link to increased rates of jaundice in newborns.   Do babies
given oral vit K have less incidence of jaundice requiring phototherapy?  Do
babies who are not given vitamin K at all have the same or less incidence of
jaundice?  It seems to me a high number of babies born in hospitals seem to
develop jaundice which requires phototherapy.  Could the common denominator
be the IM Vit. K?? causing increased viscosity of the circulating blood, so
therefore increased deposition / slower elimination of unconjugated
bilirubin?  I wonder?.

Idea's for a mosaic?  What about something similarly constructed to the CMP
logo - a picture of a woman and baby in the centre, with the houses and
linked figures holding hands around the edge?  You've got me thinking about
art work now!  Take care my friend, love Lois
   

- Original Message - 
From: Mrs Joanne M Fisher 
To: Ozmidwifery 
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 9:50 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Any ideas for research and mosiac?


Dear List,

I've just returned to Brisbane and have re-joined the list again after
spending time in Perth doing some observations for my studies with the
fabulous midwives of the CMP - (Hi all you lovely ladies over there).  This
is a wonderful list to be on and so educatonal.  I've been asked by my tutor
to talk to the Grad Dip Mid students at ACU in Oct, so I'll be
enthusiastically spreading the word of continuous midwifery care.  She (my
tutor) is also encouraging me to do my Masters, (not sure if I will yet), so
I was wondering if anyone out there had suggestions for me for subjects that
I could do a small research on.  I've never done anything like this before
and know nothing about research, (I'm a hospital midwife and have only
recently embarked on university studies).  I already have some vague ideas
but I'm sure there are plenty of other ideas that I haven't thought of.  
I also want to mosiac my coffee table and would love to do something that
symbolized birth/midwives etc, but being a hopeless artist I haven't been
able to think of a simple design to do.  Can anyone help???

Cheers, 
Joanne (Fisher)
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RE: [ozmidwifery] OP & ARM

[Neretlis, Bethany]

Ann is this about getting documents to support a change in practice or for
research or what.

if its any help, i have had two op labours. one 1st, i had an arm after 12
hrs, with synto put up. pain went through the roof, and delivered babe 13
hrs later by svd.  2nd babe was op , srom at 37+2,delivered by svd in 14
hrs.  no sudden increase in pain as membranes ruptured throughout. much
better.  i personally do all i can to avoid arm on an op labour, but this is
due to my personal experience and from my observations of other op labours.
love  Bethany 

-Original Message-
From: Anne Clarke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 31 July 2003 07:04
To: OZMIDWIFERY
Subject: [ozmidwifery] OP & ARM


Dear All,

I have been trying to find any reference about OP positions in labour and
the benefit of NOT doing ARM's.  Unless there is evidence to promote ARM in
OP labours.

I have found articles in Midwifery Today and some comments but they did not
have any references. 

I would appreciate some help with this issue.

With thanks,
Anne
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RE: [ozmidwifery] curette and miscarriage

[Neretlis, Bethany]

we only give anti d to NEG mums with a proven POS babe

love  Bethany


-Original Message-
From: Graham & Helen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2003 20:17
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] curette and miscarriage


What about the need for anti D for those Mums who are RH negative?
Something to bare in mind apart from the curette issue..

Helen C
- Original Message - 
From: "jayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] curette and miscarriage


> I think nature does its job well - I hear too many stories of women having
a
> curette after mc and then lots of related health problems.
>
> I've had 3 mc's,  have never gone near a doctor and have healed very
quickly
> each time.
>
> Jayne
>
>
>
>
> > What are peoples thoughts on having a curette after a miscarriage?
> > I didn't involve the medico's, just my midwife so we just let nature
take
> > its course. However many I hear who go to hospital, have one as
> recommended.
> > I guess there are medical indications for having one, but is it just a
> > routine procedure?
> >
>
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep

[Neretlis, Bethany]

pinky, i have fed both my girls for 2 years each. unfortunately, i ceased
feeding 10 months ago.
i am also a midwife. if there is any way i can help you with any
breastfeeding articles, please leet me know.
bethany

-Original Message-
From: Pinky McKay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2003 19:51
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep


Yeah - how about "Extending the Breast" -reckon they'd cop that? (Im sure
there has to be an "angle" -??soft and round - squished between grasping
little fingers?)

Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years old
right now) willing to be interviewed?
Ill check with Mara (the ed) -I bet they havent done one about THAT in the
recent (or distant) past.
Pinky.
- Original Message - 
From: "Cheryl LHK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep


> And Pinky ... you do a great job in your little bit in the mag.
>
> Having been a subscriber for several years now, it both informs and
astounds
> me some of the articles that are written.  We are getting back to some
> common-sense mothering with your advice.
>
> They have (for years) been running a pregnancy diary where they follow
> through three different women from conception to birth;  several ladies
over
> the years have wanted home birth, but not many have been sucessful.  I
think
> the last one ended up FTP and C/S.
>
> Keep up the good writing, are you doing one on the benefits of
> breast-feeding soon??
>
> Cheryl
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Pinky McKay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
> >Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:28:19 +1000
> >
> >BTW -= my column in the current issue(June) of Practical Parenting is I
> >Failed Sleep School -and the one just about to come out (July) is called
> >"Joined at The Hip"  -about Velcro babies and why carrying is good for
> >babies. August is co-sleeping. I only get 500 words so its a tame
approach
> >(or I mightnt get it past) but the seeds are sown.
> >
> >The July issue (due out next week, I think) has an article about 3 breech
> >births that WERENT caesarean -and also an article about episiotomies that
I
> >havent read yet -may be worth some letters to the ed on these ones.
> >Pinky
> >   - Original Message -
> >   From: Jaqueline Marwick
> >   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >   Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:53 AM
> >   Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
> >
> >
> >   I must agree with Pinky as well
> >   And I call it the CIO method, the old name which is really CRY IT OUT.
> >Now they call it "controlled crying" so it sounds a bit less cruel. This
is
> >in fact the old CRY IT OUT method, which means parents are told to let
> >their babies cry , cry, cry until there are no more tears and so they
sleep
> >very tired from a very stressful cry, and probably thinking it makes no
> >difference to cry or not, since mum and dad won't come to comfort them
> >anyway.  Sad.
> >   I went to this website (sleep baby sleep) and looked on their forum,
and
> >there it was: BINGO!  Someone mentioned NGALA , an organisation in WA
that
> >promotes this CIO method for babies and also preaches that we should cut
> >the night feeds and even avoid eye contact with the baby during the night
> >(in case they wake up)amongst other pretty full on evil ways. Sad.
> >   And the worst thing is that these people have plenty of room in the
> >media, I always hear them talking on the radio as "specialists" or
"experts
> >in sleep methods", "experts in parenting"
> >   And they do have an audience!
> >   May God have mercy on them!  What sort of child-parent relationship
are
> >these people creating by establishing that pattern?
> >   Jackie
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pinky McKay
> > Sent: Monday, 23 June 2003 2:17 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
> >
> >
> > I think you are right Marilyn - did anyone see Saturdays Age -re 25
> >year olds and the stress these women are under - career/ study etc -not
at
> >all about mothers, but add mothering, especially with unrealistic
> >expectations, to this scenario and it would all be a slippery downhill
> >slide.
> >
> > I have several friends at the grandmother end who are wearing this
> >stress (as well as trying to live their own lives) and actually being
> >diagnosed with depression -as their young daughters are struggling with
> >mothering and finding it overwhelming - maybe we all need to learn to
slow
> >up somehow and reach out to each other more.  It seems prescriptions
(which
> >I am not knocking either, as they are a definite lifeline, just the irony
> >that they are offered as the 'fix') are needed to cope with things that
> >should be helped by support - yet the commun

RE: [ozmidwifery] twilight delivery - or twilight baby?

[Neretlis, Bethany]

Denise, i think we have all looked after 'labouring' or birthing women who
do not experience pain as anyone else would know it.  i destinctly remember
one woman who walked into my labour unit at 8cm with a few 'aches' (very
mild 
suprapubic  discomfort with contactions which had benn 15 minly, and became
5minly on arrival at hospital. she was a multi and figured this was labour
because of the regularity. if she had been asleep she would have most likely
slept through them. even her birthing didn't bother her much, although i
agree that she couldn;t have slept through that

love  Bethany 

-Original Message-
From: Denise Hynd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, 20 June 2003 13:13
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] twilight delivery - or twilight baby?


Dear Rhonda
when the cervix is fully open the subsequent contractions will involuntarily
push the baby out without extra voluntary effort from the woman whetehr
awake or asleep!I love the stories of women who sleep through labour
naturally??
Denise
- Original Message - 
From: Rhonda 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:16 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] twilight delivery - or twilight baby?


Hmm - Thank you all so much.  Very interesting.  I would have thought that
it would have created problems with bonding and feeding etc - however they
probably promoted bottle feeding too??

I would expect that there would also have been problems with tearing and
rupture etc - just thinking that the woman would have no control or feeling
and so would not really know when to push etc and so it would interfere with
the natural process.  Just my thoughts on it. 

Anyone know why it stopped - I guess it was because of problems but there
would no doubt have been some sort of catalyst to stop it?

Thanks Again
Rhonda 

---Original Message---

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 23:01:09
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] twilight delivery - or twilight baby?

Queen Voctoria started it. Well, they experimented on her and it was she
that advocated how wonderful it was!
- Original Message - 
From: Rhonda 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:19 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] twilight delivery - or twilight baby?


Hi, all of you knowledgable women,

I was talking to a friend today who said that her sister in law who was born
in the 1940's claims to be a "twilight baby"?  Apparently her mother - who
has passed away now and cannot explain the reason - had her first child as a
natural delivery - the second was this weird delivery where she went into
hospital on her due day not in labour  - got put to sleep and then woke up
having delivered the baby vaginally while asleep or in twilight!  
The next two were normal, natural births.
Does anyone know about this practice - obviously not done now days - i
presume!

She was curious about how it was done and why it may have been done.

Any ideas?

Regards
Rhonda.










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RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: Isolated birth

[Neretlis, Bethany]

JAN, A COPY FOR ME TOO
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

love  Bethany


-Original Message-
From: Ross W Timbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, 14 June 2003 08:38
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Isolated birth


Jan,
Could I have a copy of your birth plan too please.
Jacky
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
From: "Jan Robinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Isolated birth



Hi Lyle
You can count me in too if you can get me there! The closest I have ever
been to Pitcairn is Norfolk and that's a long way from you.

However, the reality is that you will probably be unassisted except for the
woman's immediate family and the priority now would be to prepare them all
for a natural birth (if natural birth is unfamiliar to them and you). It is
important to work out the role of each family member in supporting the woman
through her labour and possibly assisting you if unexpected circumstances
occur.

Have you got lots of resources, videos, pictures, books depicting natural
birth so you can all get together and discuss options and prepare this
woman's birth plan with her? Also discuss what will be focused on as pain
management. The woman will do much better without drugs and needs to have a
plan on how she will achieve this.  Verbal analgesia from her family will
help.

I can send you a copy of a really good birth plan electronically that will
guide you in your discussion with this woman if you would like it.
Discussing aspects of the birth plan at each prenatal visit will remind you
to leave no part of the pregnancy, labour/birth and aftercare untouched and
will in fact become your documentation of obtaining informed consent for
your management.

Regards
Jan Robinson

__
 Jan Robinson Phone/fax: 011+ 61+ 2+ 9546 4350
 Independent Midwife Practitioner e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 8 Robin Crescent www:   midwiferyeducation.com.au
 South Hurstville  NSW  2221  National Coordinator, ASIM
__



On 13/6/03 10:00 AM, "Andrea Quanchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'd say go for it. You obviously both understand the limitations of
> isolation and so long as that is the case then it is ultimately her
> decision.  The woman is better with you than without you.  I am assuming
> that you must have someone else on the island who is proficient in CPR
> and I would include them in your birth preperations.  Once the baby is
> born there are two people to be considered and it is reassuring to know
> that there is someone who can care for each in the unlikely event that
> they are needed.  Non birthing people seem to panic at the idea so
> springing it on someone at the last minute is not a good idea but if
> they get to work through the remainder of the pregnancy with you both
> and see that you are making the decision on healthy ideals then they
> will be more comfortable when the time comes.
> What about offering an island holiday to a midwife +/- family around the
> time of birth, Anyway have a great time and keep us informed about the
> plans
> Andrea Quanchi
> On Wednesday, June 11, 2003, at 12:14 PM, Medical Officer wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>> I am at present the sole medical person and midwife on an isolated
>> island where the nearest medical help is seven days away by ship. All
>> mothers over the past 10 years have gone to Auckland to have their
>> babies. I am at present looking after a mother with her second
>> pregnancy (to a new partner) who would like to have this baby on the
>> island where she resides. She had a fairly easy first delivery and
>> this pregnancy has progressed well (she is 24 weeks) with no
>> complications. I am reasonably happy to continue looking after her and
>> delivering on island but I am wondering what other midwives etc. would
>> recommend.
>> Any feedback on this would be great.
>> Thanks,
>> Lyle
>

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RE: [ozmidwifery] KEMH (baby under the light)

[Neretlis, Bethany]

kemh has a special care nursery on ground floor and if her baby is on
another floor, then this is where her baby is.  it sounds very like the babe
is issoimmunised, and it sounds as if babe is recieving standard treatment.
as to the doing great part, i would guess the babe is behaving appropriatly
with regards to its medical condition.
tell your friend all the wards have a telephone interpreter phone which is
an excellent although slow way of being able to explain and question what is
happening.  your friend just needs to ask to use this free service.

regard bethany

-Original Message-
From: Jaqueline Marwick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 9 June 2003 00:46
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] KEMH (baby under the light)


Hi Kirsten and everyone :)
Since you mentioned KEMH
May I ask... do you work at KEMH btw?
Or does anyone here work at KEMH?
I have a friend who is there at the moment, she is Brazilian and hardly
speaks any English, especially these obstetric terms... anyway, she has a RH
negative blood and having her second child , was asked to be induced on the
3rd of June (last TUESDAY), when her baby was due on the 21st of June.
When I asked her why the doctor decided to induce her so early she simpy
said she didn't quite understand much of what "they" say anyway, but she
trusts they know what they are doing *sigh*
She then told me that even babies who are born very prematurely and as
little as 750 grams in weight all have their lives saved by this hospital.
During her labour, which was to be induced with the gel  the staff told
her she "had to have the drip on in order to have contractions" and so she
promptly agreed.
Well, today is Sunday and her baby has been "under the light" non-stop for
having jaundice since the day she was born, last tuesday.
Her baby was not allowed to even feed at her breast because they claim she
needs to be under the light continuously, so mum is pumping milk onto a
bottle and the nurses are feeding her baby who is on another floor
The doctor who assisted her at birth has not been back, and the midwives
tell her that her baby is doing great
Would anyone know why a baby who is doing great is kept away from her mother
for so many days?
It sounds to me as if she is not being fully informed.
Thanks very much
Jackie

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kirsten
Blacker
Sent: Saturday, 7 June 2003 10:58 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] midwifery in India


I know some years back one of the midwives I worked with at KEMH used to
volunteer at Mother Teresa's hospital in Calcutta. I have no idea how you
would go about organising that - maybe contact Internation Red Cross?
Kirsten


>From: "Julie Garratt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: "Ozmid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Bmid"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: [ozmidwifery] midwifery in India
>Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 20:57:02 +0930
>
>Hello wise people:)
>A few of the Bmid students and I are planing a
>trip to India this Christmas to experience midwifery in another culture.
>What we're wondering is have any of you been over there and had any birth
>experiences with Indian women.
>Do you think we could volenteer at a hospital or midwifery clinic?
>Does anyone have any contacts?
>Were only in the planning stages at the moment and your imput would be
>great.
>Cheers, Julie'',

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