Re: istD button battery cover?

[Bill]

On 1/4/2016 11:50 AM, Rick Womer wrote:

Good afternoon,

My daughter's istD has lost the screw-in cover for the button battery.

Does anyone have (1) the item, (2) a source for the item, or (3) an
idea for a substitute?

Cheers,

Rick

http://photo.net/photos/RickW



Send me your address offlist. I will send you an entire istD.


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Re: istD button battery cover?

[Rick Womer]

No, that was a pump malfunction. Nothing to do with the CPU.
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 6:03 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:
> actually, isn't that what he was in the hospital for?
>
> ann
>
> On 1/4/2016 3:02 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:
>>
>> Rick Womer wrote:
>>
>>> Dave, you and I were made before memory required batteries.
>>
>> What? You haven't had your hardware updated?
>>
>
>
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Re: istD button battery cover?

[ann sanfedele]

actually, isn't that what he was in the hospital for?

ann

On 1/4/2016 3:02 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:

Rick Womer wrote:


Dave, you and I were made before memory required batteries.

What? You haven't had your hardware updated?
  



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Re: istD button battery cover?

[Rick Womer]

Neither the hardware nor the wetware.
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:11 PM, David J Brooks  wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Mark Roberts  
> wrote:
>> Rick Womer wrote:
>>
>>>Dave, you and I were made before memory required batteries.
>>
>> What? You haven't had your hardware updated?
>
> still on spellin 1.0
>
> Dave
>>
>> --
>> Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
>> www.robertstech.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: istD button battery cover?

[David J Brooks]

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Mark Roberts  wrote:
> Rick Womer wrote:
>
>>Dave, you and I were made before memory required batteries.
>
> What? You haven't had your hardware updated?

still on spellin 1.0

Dave
>
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>
>
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Re: istD button battery cover?

[Mark Roberts]

Rick Womer wrote:

>Dave, you and I were made before memory required batteries.

What? You haven't had your hardware updated?
 
-- 
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www.robertstech.com





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Re: istD button battery cover?

[Rick Womer]

Dave, you and I were made before memory required batteries.

Rick
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:00 PM, David J Brooks  wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:53 PM, P.J. Alling  
> wrote:
>> The *ist-D was the only Pentax DSLR with a replaceable memory maintenance
>> battery, every later camera had a different method of maintaining long term
>> memory, so it's the only camera that used that battery cover, unfortunately.
>
> So, that explains my poor memory, by battery door is broken
>
> Dave
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Re: istD button battery cover?

[David J Brooks]

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:53 PM, P.J. Alling  wrote:
> The *ist-D was the only Pentax DSLR with a replaceable memory maintenance
> battery, every later camera had a different method of maintaining long term
> memory, so it's the only camera that used that battery cover, unfortunately.

So, that explains my poor memory, by battery door is broken

Dave
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Re: istD button battery cover?

[P.J. Alling]

The *ist-D was the only Pentax DSLR with a replaceable memory 
maintenance battery, every later camera had a different method of 
maintaining long term memory, so it's the only camera that used that 
battery cover, unfortunately.


On 1/4/2016 1:36 PM, Darren Addy wrote:

You might try this guy: http://mikescamera.com/pentax-camera-repair-parts.html
I'm not sure what part number that actually is, but if you email him
(email address on that page) he would probably know.

I just checked the bottom of mine and that's a bigger cover than you
usually see. Not sure what other models might have shared that part.
Perhaps the guy can tell you that also. If there were some of the
cheap & plentiful Pentax FILM camera bodies that shared the same part,
you might have better luck purchasing a whole body to rob the battery
cover from. I'd google Pentax film camera specifications to see if any
share the same battery with the istD (hopefully there are some) and
then see which of them is cheapest on eBay.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Rick Womer  wrote:

Good afternoon,

My daughter's istD has lost the screw-in cover for the button battery.

Does anyone have (1) the item, (2) a source for the item, or (3) an
idea for a substitute?

Cheers,

Rick

http://photo.net/photos/RickW

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Re: istD button battery cover?

[P.J. Alling]

This is going to seem bad, but the *ist-D is now over 10 years old.
Heck I bet that the last one manufactured was probably produced in 2004 
and that production run was sold until they ran out in 2006.


Last time I saw a *ist-D for sale at KEH it went for less than $90.00 in 
EX condition.


Parts are probably made out of unobtainium at this point, and since one 
can probably sell their *ist-D for ~90 dollars that's what the battery 
door is worth.


I think you have two viable options.  Haunt E-bay and KEH waiting for 
one to show up to steal the battery cover from, (or replace the entire 
camera with the new/old *ist-D), or replace it with a newer camera.


The K-50 is still being sold new and it's just shy of being a K-5II, 
with a better viewfinder than the *ist-D and at it's current new price 
it's practically being given away.




On 1/4/2016 12:50 PM, Rick Womer wrote:

Good afternoon,

My daughter's istD has lost the screw-in cover for the button battery.

Does anyone have (1) the item, (2) a source for the item, or (3) an
idea for a substitute?

Cheers,

Rick

http://photo.net/photos/RickW




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immortality through not dying.
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Re: istD button battery cover?

[Darren Addy]

You might try this guy: http://mikescamera.com/pentax-camera-repair-parts.html
I'm not sure what part number that actually is, but if you email him
(email address on that page) he would probably know.

I just checked the bottom of mine and that's a bigger cover than you
usually see. Not sure what other models might have shared that part.
Perhaps the guy can tell you that also. If there were some of the
cheap & plentiful Pentax FILM camera bodies that shared the same part,
you might have better luck purchasing a whole body to rob the battery
cover from. I'd google Pentax film camera specifications to see if any
share the same battery with the istD (hopefully there are some) and
then see which of them is cheapest on eBay.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Rick Womer  wrote:
> Good afternoon,
>
> My daughter's istD has lost the screw-in cover for the button battery.
>
> Does anyone have (1) the item, (2) a source for the item, or (3) an
> idea for a substitute?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rick
>
> http://photo.net/photos/RickW
>
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Re: IstD annoyance... is it me or ?

[Jostein Øksne]

John, I think it's a capacitor. If you leave the battery out, the camera 
will eventually forget. Same thing on the Optio S and Optio W60, btw.

Jostein
- Original Message - 
From: "John Sessoms" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 3:48 AM
Subject: Re: IstD annoyance... is it me or ?



From: Eric Featherstone

On 22 October 2012 15:30, Ann Sanfedele  wrote:
> Every time I change the batteries it changes the date back to 2003 
> 01/01.

> The batteries last a long time , fortunately.

There's another coin cell battery underneath that might need replacing.


So, what holds the date & time when you change batteries on the K10D/K20D. 
There doesn't appear to be a second battery to do it - at least I can't 
find one & I didn't see anything in the manual.


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Re: IstD annoyance... is it me or ?

[Eric Featherstone]

No probs.

I doubt there's any connection between a flat coin cell and a sticky
control wheel.

On 22 October 2012 18:52, Ann Sanfedele  wrote:
> thanks to you and Eric..
> wonder if that is also responsible for the little wheely being stubborn to
> move.
>
> So far other settings seemed to hold
>
> ann
>
>
> On 10/22/2012 10:37, George Sinos wrote:
>>
>> Many earlier cameras had that second battery to keep the clock running
>> while you were changing batteries.  It may also be there to maintain
>> your custom settings.  You'll want to double check those after you
>> replace the battery.
>>
>> gs
>>
>> George Sinos
>> 
>> gsi...@gmail.com
>> www.georgesphotos.net
>> plus.georgesinos.com
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Eric Featherstone
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> On 22 October 2012 15:30, Ann Sanfedele  wrote:

 Every time I change the batteries it changes the date back to 2003
 01/01.
 The batteries last a long time , fortunately.
>>>
>>>
>>> There's another coin cell battery underneath that might need replacing.
>>> --
>>> Eric
>>>
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Re: IstD annoyance... is it me or ?

[Eric Featherstone]

On 23 October 2012 02:48, John Sessoms  wrote:
> From: Eric Featherstone
>
>> On 22 October 2012 15:30, Ann Sanfedele  wrote:
>>>
>>> > Every time I change the batteries it changes the date back to 2003
>>> > 01/01.
>>> > The batteries last a long time , fortunately.
>>
>> There's another coin cell battery underneath that might need replacing.
>
>
> So, what holds the date & time when you change batteries on the K10D/K20D.
> There doesn't appear to be a second battery to do it - at least I can't find
> one & I didn't see anything in the manual.

Likely there's a rechargeable battery internally to do that duty.

-- 
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Re: IstD annoyance... is it me or ?

[John Sessoms]

From: Eric Featherstone

On 22 October 2012 15:30, Ann Sanfedele  wrote:

> Every time I change the batteries it changes the date back to 2003 01/01.
> The batteries last a long time , fortunately.

There's another coin cell battery underneath that might need replacing.


So, what holds the date & time when you change batteries on the 
K10D/K20D. There doesn't appear to be a second battery to do it - at 
least I can't find one & I didn't see anything in the manual.


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Re: IstD annoyance... is it me or ?

[Ann Sanfedele]

thanks to you and Eric..
wonder if that is also responsible for the little wheely being stubborn 
to move.


So far other settings seemed to hold

ann

On 10/22/2012 10:37, George Sinos wrote:

Many earlier cameras had that second battery to keep the clock running
while you were changing batteries.  It may also be there to maintain
your custom settings.  You'll want to double check those after you
replace the battery.

gs

George Sinos

gsi...@gmail.com
www.georgesphotos.net
plus.georgesinos.com


On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Eric Featherstone
 wrote:

On 22 October 2012 15:30, Ann Sanfedele  wrote:

Every time I change the batteries it changes the date back to 2003 01/01.
The batteries last a long time , fortunately.


There's another coin cell battery underneath that might need replacing.
--
Eric

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Re: IstD annoyance... is it me or ?

[Jostein Øksne]

- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Davis" 



limitinitially 


Typo or not, that was a fabulous word, Jack. :-)

Jostein

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Re: IstD annoyance... is it me or ?

[Ann Sanfedele]

hh!

thanks ERic
ann

On 10/22/2012 10:34, Eric Featherstone wrote:

On 22 October 2012 15:30, Ann Sanfedele  wrote:

Every time I change the batteries it changes the date back to 2003 01/01.
The batteries last a long time , fortunately.


There's another coin cell battery underneath that might need replacing.



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Re: IstD annoyance... is it me or ?

[Jack Davis]

May have to do with the time limit limitinitially programed...but I doubt it.
 
Jack


- Original Message -
From: Ann Sanfedele 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Cc: 
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 7:30 AM
Subject: IstD annoyance... is it me or ?

Every time I change the batteries it changes the date back to 2003 01/01.  The 
batteries last a long time , fortunately.

Whats up with that?

ann

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Re: IstD annoyance... is it me or ?

[George Sinos]

Many earlier cameras had that second battery to keep the clock running
while you were changing batteries.  It may also be there to maintain
your custom settings.  You'll want to double check those after you
replace the battery.

gs

George Sinos

gsi...@gmail.com
www.georgesphotos.net
plus.georgesinos.com


On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Eric Featherstone
 wrote:
> On 22 October 2012 15:30, Ann Sanfedele  wrote:
>> Every time I change the batteries it changes the date back to 2003 01/01.
>> The batteries last a long time , fortunately.
>
> There's another coin cell battery underneath that might need replacing.
> --
> Eric
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Re: IstD annoyance... is it me or ?

[Eric Featherstone]

On 22 October 2012 15:30, Ann Sanfedele  wrote:
> Every time I change the batteries it changes the date back to 2003 01/01.
> The batteries last a long time , fortunately.

There's another coin cell battery underneath that might need replacing.
-- 
Eric

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Re: IstD B&W modification

[Gonz]

Yeah, that would be perfect for low light, or astrophotography.  For
me, I just want the detail that eliminating the de-mosiac filter and
Bayer interpolation affords, plus straight up B&W.  I think you still
need the microlenses to focus the light onto the photosites however,
so I'm not sure how this would work as far as removing these filters
go.  I don't know why someone like Pentax doesn't just have a small,
slightly modified assembly line to create a few of these specialized
cameras every year, I'm sure there is a market for something like
this. Not very big, but willing to buy it for specialized needs.

On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>
> On Sep 13, 2011, at 12:22 PM, Gonz wrote:
>
>> Anyone here ever converted a Pentax DSLR into a straight B&W, i.e.
>> remove the tricolor filter?
>>
>> I was thinking of trying this with an old Pentax DSLR if it was possible.
>
> For low light photography, I'd love to have a K-5 with that conversion.
>
>
> --
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>
>
>
>
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Re: IstD B&W modification

[Larry Colen]

On Sep 13, 2011, at 12:22 PM, Gonz wrote:

> Anyone here ever converted a Pentax DSLR into a straight B&W, i.e.
> remove the tricolor filter?
> 
> I was thinking of trying this with an old Pentax DSLR if it was possible.

For low light photography, I'd love to have a K-5 with that conversion.


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Re: IstD B&W modification

[Gonz]

Yup, I think thats the place that does the Canons.

On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Fernando  wrote:
> This is the only place I remembered mentioning something like this. I
> don't think they do pentaxes though:
> http://www.maxmax.com/b&w_conversion.htm
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Gonz  wrote:
>> Well, you still have to convert it to B&W from the raw data.  The
>> difference is that you take the values as they are, and per pixel, no
>> array computation.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 2:34 PM, David Parsons  
>> wrote:
>>> I don't think that it would make the camera B&W.  The circuitry in the
>>> camera/raw processor interpolates the luminance data into colors and
>>> assigns a color based on the strength of the light.  The color filters
>>> simply filter light.
>>>
>>> I'd be interested to see what the results would be if you can get it
>>> off.  You might end up with a sharper image if you take off both the
>>> Bayer array and the AA filter.  The Bayer array softens the image a
>>> bit, and the AA (anti-aliasing) filter gives some of the sharpness
>>> back.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Gonz  wrote:
 Anyone here ever converted a Pentax DSLR into a straight B&W, i.e.
 remove the tricolor filter?

 I was thinking of trying this with an old Pentax DSLR if it was possible.



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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com
>>>
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Re: IstD B&W modification

[Gonz]

Yeah, maybe not for Pentax.  Someone has done it for Canon T series
and is selling them.  Very cool, but not willing to pay $2000 for it.
It sounds like yanking out the filter and microlenses would destroy
the CCD.

On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 3:24 PM, P. J. Alling
 wrote:
> The Bayer filter is under the micro lenses.  I don't think that what you
> want to do is possible.
>
> On 9/13/2011 3:22 PM, Gonz wrote:
>>
>> Anyone here ever converted a Pentax DSLR into a straight B&W, i.e.
>> remove the tricolor filter?
>>
>> I was thinking of trying this with an old Pentax DSLR if it was possible.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
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> a lengthily search.
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Re: IstD B&W modification

[Fernando]

This is the only place I remembered mentioning something like this. I
don't think they do pentaxes though:
http://www.maxmax.com/b&w_conversion.htm



On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Gonz  wrote:
> Well, you still have to convert it to B&W from the raw data.  The
> difference is that you take the values as they are, and per pixel, no
> array computation.
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 2:34 PM, David Parsons  
> wrote:
>> I don't think that it would make the camera B&W.  The circuitry in the
>> camera/raw processor interpolates the luminance data into colors and
>> assigns a color based on the strength of the light.  The color filters
>> simply filter light.
>>
>> I'd be interested to see what the results would be if you can get it
>> off.  You might end up with a sharper image if you take off both the
>> Bayer array and the AA filter.  The Bayer array softens the image a
>> bit, and the AA (anti-aliasing) filter gives some of the sharpness
>> back.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Gonz  wrote:
>>> Anyone here ever converted a Pentax DSLR into a straight B&W, i.e.
>>> remove the tricolor filter?
>>>
>>> I was thinking of trying this with an old Pentax DSLR if it was possible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>> http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com
>>
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Re: IstD B&W modification

[Gonz]

Well, you still have to convert it to B&W from the raw data.  The
difference is that you take the values as they are, and per pixel, no
array computation.

On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 2:34 PM, David Parsons  wrote:
> I don't think that it would make the camera B&W.  The circuitry in the
> camera/raw processor interpolates the luminance data into colors and
> assigns a color based on the strength of the light.  The color filters
> simply filter light.
>
> I'd be interested to see what the results would be if you can get it
> off.  You might end up with a sharper image if you take off both the
> Bayer array and the AA filter.  The Bayer array softens the image a
> bit, and the AA (anti-aliasing) filter gives some of the sharpness
> back.
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Gonz  wrote:
>> Anyone here ever converted a Pentax DSLR into a straight B&W, i.e.
>> remove the tricolor filter?
>>
>> I was thinking of trying this with an old Pentax DSLR if it was possible.
>>
>>
>>
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Re: IstD B&W modification

[P. J. Alling]

The Bayer filter is under the micro lenses.  I don't think that what you 
want to do is possible.


On 9/13/2011 3:22 PM, Gonz wrote:

Anyone here ever converted a Pentax DSLR into a straight B&W, i.e.
remove the tricolor filter?

I was thinking of trying this with an old Pentax DSLR if it was possible.






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lengthily search.


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Re: IstD B&W modification

[Matthew Hunt]

On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Gonz  wrote:

> Anyone here ever converted a Pentax DSLR into a straight B&W, i.e.
> remove the tricolor filter?
>
> I was thinking of trying this with an old Pentax DSLR if it was possible.

My understanding is that the Bayer color filter array is attached
quite directly to the sensor, underneath the microlens array. It's not
a mechanically separate layer in the "sandwich" like the antialiasing
and/or IR filters are. See for example:

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/digitalimaging/cmosimagesensors.html

If the Pentax sensors are different, and you somehow managed to remove
the color filters, I think you'd do OK shooting in raw. The dcraw
software, for example, is capable of outputting a monochrome image
without demosaicing.

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Re: IstD B&W modification

[David Parsons]

I don't think that it would make the camera B&W.  The circuitry in the
camera/raw processor interpolates the luminance data into colors and
assigns a color based on the strength of the light.  The color filters
simply filter light.

I'd be interested to see what the results would be if you can get it
off.  You might end up with a sharper image if you take off both the
Bayer array and the AA filter.  The Bayer array softens the image a
bit, and the AA (anti-aliasing) filter gives some of the sharpness
back.

On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Gonz  wrote:
> Anyone here ever converted a Pentax DSLR into a straight B&W, i.e.
> remove the tricolor filter?
>
> I was thinking of trying this with an old Pentax DSLR if it was possible.
>
>
>
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Re: (*istD questions) Argh. Near miss of a different sort.

[Charles Robinson]

On Jun 4, 2008, at 0:44, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
> But you can buy the "Canon Remote Switch RS-60E3" from B&H Photo for
> $25 that works perfectly as a replacement for the $40 Pentax CS-201,
> or go to Ebay and find the same thing made in China for $4.
>
> I personally wouldn't waste the time to make one.
>

I did waste the time a couple years ago, and now I wonder why I  
bothered.

"Because I could"?

  -Charles

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Re: (*istD questions) Argh. Near miss of a different sort.

[P. J. Alling]

D. Glenn Arthur Jr. wrote:
> I went to Radio Shack to buy parts to build myself a cable release
> for the *istD.  They had submini phone plugs, but only mono, not
> TRS, and it turns out that shorting ring to sleeve keeps the 
> autofocus constantly activated (which I presume costs battery life).
>   
Check the stock number on line with Radio Shack.com  They may very well 
have the stereo sub mini in stock but not know it.  (If you have the 
stock number they can find it much easier that way).
> And they didn't have cheap IR LEDs to make an invisible flash with,
> either.  Though there was a spot marked for them in the drawer.
> *pout*  (Unsurprisingly, they didn't have PC connectors either,
> so I'll probably look for the cheapest PC-cord accessory I can 
> find and snip the plug off it when I do build the invisible flash.)
>
> Question:  when emulating a locking cable release for long exposures,
> should I disengage the autofocus connection once the shutter is open,
> or does the camera automagically do that internally?  (Or should I
> just not worry about the battery drain of having the autofocus system
> powered while the mirror is up?  Is the cost of holding the shutter
> open high enough to swamp having the autofocus powered?  I've no idea
> what aspets of the camera's operation cost how much juice, but I'm
> guessing that electromechanical aspects -- and lighting the LCD 
> backlight -- cost more than purely electronic operations ... right?)\
>   
Once the shutter is open the auto focus is superfluous to the current 
operation. .  I'd be very surprised if it was continually powered at 
that point. However I built a mechanical to electronic cable release 
adapter for my *ist-D and Ds which keeps the auto focus circuit closed 
and I haven't had any problems so far.
>   -- Glenn, starting to wonder
>  how much an *istD repair 
>  manual would tell me about
>  the electronics.
>
>   


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Re: (*istD questions) Argh. Near miss of a different sort.

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

The cable remote release is just a two circuit switch. One switch  
turns on the meter and focusing system, the other trips the shutter.

But you can buy the "Canon Remote Switch RS-60E3" from B&H Photo for  
$25 that works perfectly as a replacement for the $40 Pentax CS-201,  
or go to Ebay and find the same thing made in China for $4.

I personally wouldn't waste the time to make one.

Godfrey

On Jun 3, 2008, at 7:15 PM, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. wrote:

> I went to Radio Shack to buy parts to build myself a cable release
> for the *istD.  They had submini phone plugs, but only mono, not
> TRS, and it turns out that shorting ring to sleeve keeps the
> autofocus constantly activated (which I presume costs battery life).
>
> And they didn't have cheap IR LEDs to make an invisible flash with,
> either.  Though there was a spot marked for them in the drawer.
> *pout*  (Unsurprisingly, they didn't have PC connectors either,
> so I'll probably look for the cheapest PC-cord accessory I can
> find and snip the plug off it when I do build the invisible flash.)
>
> Question:  when emulating a locking cable release for long exposures,
> should I disengage the autofocus connection once the shutter is open,
> or does the camera automagically do that internally?  (Or should I
> just not worry about the battery drain of having the autofocus system
> powered while the mirror is up?  Is the cost of holding the shutter
> open high enough to swamp having the autofocus powered?  I've no idea
> what aspets of the camera's operation cost how much juice, but I'm
> guessing that electromechanical aspects -- and lighting the LCD
> backlight -- cost more than purely electronic operations ... right?)
>
>   -- Glenn, starting to wonder
>  how much an *istD repair
>  manual would tell me about
>  the electronics.
>

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Re: (*istD questions) Argh. Near miss of a different sort.

[pnstenquist]

Yep, they're the same. The one i bought was tagged as for both Canon and Pentax.
Paul
 -- Original message --
From: "Mat Maessen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On 6/3/08, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] observed:
> > > I've seen off-brand shutter release units on ebay for less than ten bucks.
> > #blink#  Well that certainly changes my cost-benefit analysis.
> 
> Look for a remote shutter release for a Canon Digital Rebel. Works
> fine on my DS, should work fine on the D as well. I think I paid $13
> for mine including shipping.
> 
> -Mat
> 
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Re: (*istD questions) Argh. Near miss of a different sort.

[Mat Maessen]

On 6/3/08, D. Glenn Arthur Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] observed:
> > I've seen off-brand shutter release units on ebay for less than ten bucks.
> #blink#  Well that certainly changes my cost-benefit analysis.

Look for a remote shutter release for a Canon Digital Rebel. Works
fine on my DS, should work fine on the D as well. I think I paid $13
for mine including shipping.

-Mat

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Re: (*istD questions) Argh. Near miss of a different sort.

[Rick Womer]

The AF sensors are on the floor of the mirror box. 
The metering sensors are in the prism housing.

--- "D. Glenn Arthur Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> I don't know where the AF sensors are, but I'm
> betting that they're
> in the prism ... if I'm right (sanity check anyone?)
> then AF can't
> be _effective_ with the mirror up, but may or may
> not still be turned
> on despite not being able to do anything.
> 
> Though now you've got me wondering about AF systems
> in non-SLR 
> bodies, and how your question applies to those.
> 
> (By the way, I was trying to sneak up on a bug
> earlier, and in
> the process I discovered that the autofocus didn't
> want to work
> when too much light was coming in through the
> viewfinder.  I had
> the camera away from my face, and the darn thing
> wouldn't fire
> even though I'd had trap focus working just fine
> seconds earlier.
> Then I waved my thumb over the viewfinder and the
> shutter fired.
> Innnteresting.)
> 
> If I were naively designing a DSLR, I might not
> bother de-powering
> the AF subsystem during an exposure because the time
> involved would
> be too short to really worry about (unless the AF
> could become
> confused while the shutter was open and try to shift
> focus during
> the shot), but on 'bulb', the times are a lot
> longer, and Pentax
> designers are not naive.  So I wanna know what they
> did.  (And
> whether it happens upstream or downsteam of the
> cable-release
> conector -- i.e. whether it works automagically or
> the cable release
> has to fake it.)
> 
>   -- Glenn
> 
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Re: (*istD questions) Argh. Near miss of a different sort.

[D. Glenn Arthur Jr.]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] observed:
> I've seen off-brand shutter release units on ebay for less than ten bucks.

#blink#  Well that certainly changes my cost-benefit analysis.

-- Glenn, headin' for eBay


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Re: (*istD questions) Argh. Near miss of a different sort.

[D. Glenn Arthur Jr.]

J. C. O'Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wondered:
> never really thought about it 'cause I aint into AF but do ANY AF
> systems stay active once the shutter opens? & Why?

I don't know where the AF sensors are, but I'm betting that they're
in the prism ... if I'm right (sanity check anyone?) then AF can't
be _effective_ with the mirror up, but may or may not still be turned
on despite not being able to do anything.

Though now you've got me wondering about AF systems in non-SLR 
bodies, and how your question applies to those.

(By the way, I was trying to sneak up on a bug earlier, and in
the process I discovered that the autofocus didn't want to work
when too much light was coming in through the viewfinder.  I had
the camera away from my face, and the darn thing wouldn't fire
even though I'd had trap focus working just fine seconds earlier.
Then I waved my thumb over the viewfinder and the shutter fired.
Innnteresting.)

If I were naively designing a DSLR, I might not bother de-powering
the AF subsystem during an exposure because the time involved would
be too short to really worry about (unless the AF could become
confused while the shutter was open and try to shift focus during
the shot), but on 'bulb', the times are a lot longer, and Pentax
designers are not naive.  So I wanna know what they did.  (And
whether it happens upstream or downsteam of the cable-release
conector -- i.e. whether it works automagically or the cable release
has to fake it.)

-- Glenn

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Re: (*istD questions) Argh. Near miss of a different sort.

[pnstenquist]

I've seen off-brand shutter release units on ebay for less than ten bucks.
Paul
 -- Original message --
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (D. Glenn Arthur Jr.)
> I went to Radio Shack to buy parts to build myself a cable release
> for the *istD.  They had submini phone plugs, but only mono, not
> TRS, and it turns out that shorting ring to sleeve keeps the 
> autofocus constantly activated (which I presume costs battery life).
> 
> And they didn't have cheap IR LEDs to make an invisible flash with,
> either.  Though there was a spot marked for them in the drawer.
> *pout*  (Unsurprisingly, they didn't have PC connectors either,
> so I'll probably look for the cheapest PC-cord accessory I can 
> find and snip the plug off it when I do build the invisible flash.)
> 
> Question:  when emulating a locking cable release for long exposures,
> should I disengage the autofocus connection once the shutter is open,
> or does the camera automagically do that internally?  (Or should I
> just not worry about the battery drain of having the autofocus system
> powered while the mirror is up?  Is the cost of holding the shutter
> open high enough to swamp having the autofocus powered?  I've no idea
> what aspets of the camera's operation cost how much juice, but I'm
> guessing that electromechanical aspects -- and lighting the LCD 
> backlight -- cost more than purely electronic operations ... right?)
> 
>   -- Glenn, starting to wonder
>  how much an *istD repair 
>  manual would tell me about
>  the electronics.
> 
> -- 
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> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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RE: (*istD questions) Argh. Near miss of a different sort.

[J. C. O'Connell]

never really thought about it 'cause I aint into AF but do ANY AF
systems stay active once the shutter opens? & Why?

JC OCONNELL
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D.
Glenn Arthur Jr.
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 10:15 PM
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: (*istD questions) Argh. Near miss of a different sort.


I went to Radio Shack to buy parts to build myself a cable release for the
*istD.  They had submini phone plugs, but only mono, not TRS, and it turns
out that shorting ring to sleeve keeps the 
autofocus constantly activated (which I presume costs battery life).

And they didn't have cheap IR LEDs to make an invisible flash with, either.
Though there was a spot marked for them in the drawer.
*pout*  (Unsurprisingly, they didn't have PC connectors either, so I'll
probably look for the cheapest PC-cord accessory I can 
find and snip the plug off it when I do build the invisible flash.)

Question:  when emulating a locking cable release for long exposures, should
I disengage the autofocus connection once the shutter is open, or does the
camera automagically do that internally?  (Or should I just not worry about
the battery drain of having the autofocus system powered while the mirror is
up?  Is the cost of holding the shutter open high enough to swamp having the
autofocus powered?  I've no idea what aspets of the camera's operation cost
how much juice, but I'm guessing that electromechanical aspects -- and
lighting the LCD 
backlight -- cost more than purely electronic operations ... right?)

-- Glenn, starting to wonder
   how much an *istD repair 
   manual would tell me about
   the electronics.

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RE: *istD lens compatibility

[Jens Bladt]

Brilliant camera, right!
You can. You must first choose "other than A" in the customs menu somewhere.
Good luck.
Jens Bladt

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-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af frank
theriault
Sendt: 9. april 2007 18:48
Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List; PDML
Emne: *istD lens compatibility


Okay, guys, don't hit me over the head, I know this has been discussed
to death here, but I didn't care back then, and I care now.  ;-)

First, let me say how much fun I had this weekend with the *istD. I
mean, boatloads of fun.  If only there were a "Tri-X" switch so I
could get a proper B&W look without having to convert it later, it
would save time, but still, I have to say, using digital's a blast.

Can't wait until I get a computer so I can actually post stuff...

So, here's my question.  I want to use old lenses, and I thought I
just had to press the Infamous Green Button to get manual metering
with pre A lenses.

It didn't work.

The manual tells me that I can't use pre A lenses.  I seem to recall
that I can download something to allow my *ist D to do this?  Was it
called firmware or some such thing?  Where do I find this firmware,
and how do I download it?

Help!

-digi-virgin

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Re: *istD lens compatibility

[graywolf]

You don't have to download anything to get it to work with K and M 
lenses. The camera comes setup "Idiot Proof". There is a custom function 
that allows the camera shutter to fire with the lens on other than "A". 
Unfortunately I have not played with one since they first came out and 
can not give you specific instructions on which custom menu that is in, 
maybe someone else can be more specific.

Enjoy your new toy,

-graywolf



frank theriault wrote:
> Okay, guys, don't hit me over the head, I know this has been discussed
> to death here, but I didn't care back then, and I care now.  ;-)
> 
> First, let me say how much fun I had this weekend with the *istD. I
> mean, boatloads of fun.  If only there were a "Tri-X" switch so I
> could get a proper B&W look without having to convert it later, it
> would save time, but still, I have to say, using digital's a blast.
> 
> Can't wait until I get a computer so I can actually post stuff...
> 
> So, here's my question.  I want to use old lenses, and I thought I
> just had to press the Infamous Green Button to get manual metering
> with pre A lenses.
> 
> It didn't work.
> 
> The manual tells me that I can't use pre A lenses.  I seem to recall
> that I can download something to allow my *ist D to do this?  Was it
> called firmware or some such thing?  Where do I find this firmware,
> and how do I download it?
> 
> Help!
> 
> -digi-virgin
> 

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Re: *istD lens compatibility

[P. J. Alling]

Two things.

You have to go into the custom menu to set the camera to use a lens off 
the A position. 

It could be that the Green Button has failed and the camera needs 
repair, as well.  It's been know to happen.

frank theriault wrote:
> Okay, guys, don't hit me over the head, I know this has been discussed
> to death here, but I didn't care back then, and I care now.  ;-)
>
> First, let me say how much fun I had this weekend with the *istD. I
> mean, boatloads of fun.  If only there were a "Tri-X" switch so I
> could get a proper B&W look without having to convert it later, it
> would save time, but still, I have to say, using digital's a blast.
>
> Can't wait until I get a computer so I can actually post stuff...
>
> So, here's my question.  I want to use old lenses, and I thought I
> just had to press the Infamous Green Button to get manual metering
> with pre A lenses.
>
> It didn't work.
>
> The manual tells me that I can't use pre A lenses.  I seem to recall
> that I can download something to allow my *ist D to do this?  Was it
> called firmware or some such thing?  Where do I find this firmware,
> and how do I download it?
>
> Help!
>
> -digi-virgin
>
>   


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Re: *istD lens compatibility

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Apr 9, 2007, at 10:16 AM, frank theriault wrote:

> I decided to e-mail the camera's initial owner to see if he downloaded
> the firmware upgrades, but thanks to you, Godfrey, I've now checked
> myself, and it says "ver 1.0" which I assume means it's never been
> upgraded.

Glad to help. That's correct: you're on the original firmware. The  
green button 'semi-automatic stop down metering' for pre-A series  
lenses was an add-on to the original *ist D, I think it surfaced in  
firmware v1.02 or something like that. So you definitely need to get  
the fw update installed to get more functionality out of those lenses.

You can use them in Av mode now, however. Just be aware that they  
will only be wide open ... the Av mode will assume they don't have an  
iris diaphragm and will base exposure metering on the light  
transmitted through them wide open.

> I don't use Lightroom, but I'm intrigued.  Where might I find that?

Adobe Photoshop Lightroom is downloadable for a 30 day free trial from:
   http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshoplightroom/

Of course, you need a computer for that too... If you're running a  
Windows system, be sure that you have a Pentium IV or V or later, 1 G  
RAM and a good bit of hard disk space. Lightroom is a fairly  
intensive image processing program and needs pretty up to date  
hardware to work respectably.

Godfrey

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Re: *istD lens compatibility

[frank theriault]

On 4/9/07, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Following on from Boris' post, if it hasn't been done already, you
> need to update the firmware to the latest rev for the *ist D.
>
> First check what firmware version it's running: With the power off,
> hold down the Menu button and keep holding it when you turn on the
> power. The firmware revision will be displayed on the LCD.
>
> The latest firmware for the *ist D is v1.12. If you don't have that
> revision installed, go to
> ,
> read the instructions, download the update and install it.

Thanks, Godfrey (and thanks to Boris, too).  In the ever-so-brief time
between my initial post and your replies, I've managed to find the
appropriate firmware page at the Pentax site.

I decided to e-mail the camera's initial owner to see if he downloaded
the firmware upgrades, but thanks to you, Godfrey, I've now checked
myself, and it says "ver 1.0" which I assume means it's never been
upgraded.

Thanks!

I'll have to wait until I get a computer, but at least now I know what
to do and where to go.


> Glad to hear you're having fun with the camera. If you use Lightroom,
> you can create a default Develop template that renders your photos to
> B&W when you import them ... never have to see that nasty color
> stuff. ;-)
>

I don't use Lightroom, but I'm intrigued.  Where might I find that?

This is so cool!!

cheers,
frank

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Re: *istD lens compatibility

[Thibouille]

Dont forget I have to set a custom fuction to allow shutter release
with lens on any other setting than A (also for A and later lenses set
to any other than 'A' aperture ring).

Use M mode only !! Press green button and voila :) Of course matrix
metering doesn't work and reverts to CW. Spot works fine of course.

-- 
Thibault Massart aka Thibouille
--
K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ...

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Re: *istD lens compatibility

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Following on from Boris' post, if it hasn't been done already, you  
need to update the firmware to the latest rev for the *ist D.

First check what firmware version it's running: With the power off,  
hold down the Menu button and keep holding it when you turn on the  
power. The firmware revision will be displayed on the LCD.

The latest firmware for the *ist D is v1.12. If you don't have that  
revision installed, go to
,
read the instructions, download the update and install it.

---

Glad to hear you're having fun with the camera. If you use Lightroom,  
you can create a default Develop template that renders your photos to  
B&W when you import them ... never have to see that nasty color  
stuff. ;-)

Godfrey

On Apr 9, 2007, at 9:54 AM, Boris Liberman wrote:

> Frank, there is a custom function in the camera menu that enables
> shutter to be released with non-A aperture setting on the lens.  
> Then set
> camera to Manual mode. Then the green button trick would work.
>
> Boris
>
> frank theriault wrote:
>> First, let me say how much fun I had this weekend with the *istD. I
>> mean, boatloads of fun.  If only there were a "Tri-X" switch so I
>> could get a proper B&W look without having to convert it later, it
>> would save time, but still, I have to say, using digital's a blast.
>>
>> Can't wait until I get a computer so I can actually post stuff...
>>
>> So, here's my question.  I want to use old lenses, and I thought I
>> just had to press the Infamous Green Button to get manual metering
>> with pre A lenses.
>>
>> It didn't work.
>>
>> The manual tells me that I can't use pre A lenses.  I seem to recall
>> that I can download something to allow my *ist D to do this?  Was it
>> called firmware or some such thing?  Where do I find this firmware,
>> and how do I download it?


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Re: *istD lens compatibility

[frank theriault]

Ignore me.

I panic so easily when it comes to matters of technology.

I went to the Pentax site and found the firmware update page.

I guess it can wait until I get a puter - at least I know it's available.

thanks anyway!

cheers,
frank

On 4/9/07, frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Okay, guys, don't hit me over the head, I know this has been discussed
> to death here, but I didn't care back then, and I care now.  ;-)
>
> First, let me say how much fun I had this weekend with the *istD. I
> mean, boatloads of fun.  If only there were a "Tri-X" switch so I
> could get a proper B&W look without having to convert it later, it
> would save time, but still, I have to say, using digital's a blast.
>
> Can't wait until I get a computer so I can actually post stuff...
>
> So, here's my question.  I want to use old lenses, and I thought I
> just had to press the Infamous Green Button to get manual metering
> with pre A lenses.
>
> It didn't work.
>
> The manual tells me that I can't use pre A lenses.  I seem to recall
> that I can download something to allow my *ist D to do this?  Was it
> called firmware or some such thing?  Where do I find this firmware,
> and how do I download it?
>
> Help!
>
> -digi-virgin
>
> --
> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson
>


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Re: *istD lens compatibility

[Boris Liberman]

Frank, there is a custom function in the camera menu that enables 
shutter to be released with non-A aperture setting on the lens. Then set 
camera to Manual mode. Then the green button trick would work.

Boris

frank theriault wrote:
> Okay, guys, don't hit me over the head, I know this has been discussed
> to death here, but I didn't care back then, and I care now.  ;-)
> 
> First, let me say how much fun I had this weekend with the *istD. I
> mean, boatloads of fun.  If only there were a "Tri-X" switch so I
> could get a proper B&W look without having to convert it later, it
> would save time, but still, I have to say, using digital's a blast.
> 
> Can't wait until I get a computer so I can actually post stuff...
> 
> So, here's my question.  I want to use old lenses, and I thought I
> just had to press the Infamous Green Button to get manual metering
> with pre A lenses.
> 
> It didn't work.
> 
> The manual tells me that I can't use pre A lenses.  I seem to recall
> that I can download something to allow my *ist D to do this?  Was it
> called firmware or some such thing?  Where do I find this firmware,
> and how do I download it?
> 
> Help!
> 
> -digi-virgin
> 


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RE: *istD X Sync

[Jens Bladt]

I believe the flash is normally fired in the beginning of the period of
fully opened shutter (first or leading curtain sync) - unless of course the
camera/flash is set to last or trailing curtain sync, which mean that the
falsh will then fire just before closing time.

Regards
Jens Bladt


http://www.jensbladt.dk
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+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af Peter
Loveday
Sendt: 19. februar 2007 04:23
Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Emne: Re: *istD X Sync


> The ambient light should be contributing almost
> nothing to the exposure under these circumstances. The
> duration of the flash exposure is 1/1000-1/20,000 sec,
> depending upon the exposure.  X synch fires the flash
> at the midpoint of the shutter's exposure. So, the
> shutter speed should make no difference at all.
>
> Or is there something I am missing too?

Oh, I'm not complaining about the results I get at 1/125, it does work as
expected.

Its just that every one of my other Pentax bodies (8 in all) allow me to set
them to X sync; either by an explicit X position, or by virtue of the fact
it is a 'standard' shutter speed, like 1/125 etc.

I was just suprised that there is no way to set it to 1/150 at all.  It does
select that with an external dedicated flash, just can't do it with a PC
connection.

- Peter


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RE: *istD X Sync

[Jens Bladt]

Any speed equal to or below 1/150 will do.
I always use it on Manual when using a flash.
The TTL-flash automatics still works, you know!
Regards

Jens Bladt
Nytarkort / Greeting Card:
http://www.jensbladt.dk/godtnytaar2007/lydshow.html

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-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af Peter
Loveday
Sendt: 19. februar 2007 00:59
Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Emne: *istD X Sync


Am I completely missing something, or is there no way to set the *istD to
its X Sync speed manually?

I recall messing with this back when I first got it, but didn't really
pursue it because the external flash I was using was dedicated anyway, so
it'd work itself out.

Now that its become part of my "second kit" since the K10D, I'm using an
older (PC connection) flash... it all works fine (yes, I checked the trigger
voltage), I'm using it in M, set the flash and camera to the same aperture,
but of course I can only set the *istD to 1/125.

In theory, X Sync is 1/150... but my other options (depending on half or
third EV setting) are 1/160 or 1/180...

Am I being thick, or does this seem really silly?

- Peter


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Re: *istD X Sync

[mike wilson]

> 
> From: Rick Womer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2007/02/19 Mon AM 03:13:27 GMT
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Subject: Re: *istD X Sync
> 
> Peter,
> 
> The ambient light should be contributing almost
> nothing to the exposure under these circumstances. The
> duration of the flash exposure is 1/1000-1/20,000 sec,
> depending upon the exposure.  X synch fires the flash
> at the midpoint of the shutter's exposure. So, the
> shutter speed should make no difference at all.
> 
> Or is there something I am missing too?
> 
> Rick

I think you may be missing the point about X-synch.  It has nothing to do with 
the firing time, it's the fastest (shortest) speed that particular model of 
shutter will do where the second curtain does not move until the first curtain 
is fully open.  Faster (shorter) speeds than X are produced by the shutter 
making a slit that travels across the frame.  If you use ordinary flash (as 
opposed to high-speed, which is multiple bursts) at those speeds, part of the 
frame will be misexposed.  The firing point, at X or lower, will be when the 
first curtain is fully open unless you have the option of firing as the second 
curtain begins to close, this being called "trailing curtain" synch.

Apologies if you are an accomplished egg-sucker

FWIW, "dedicated" to Pentax means the ability of the flash to talk to the body 
to set shutter speeds and affect displays.  There are non-TTL, Pentax brand, 
dedicated flashes.

> 
> --- Peter Loveday <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Am I completely missing something, or is there no
> > way to set the *istD to 
> > its X Sync speed manually?
> > 
> > I recall messing with this back when I first got it,
> > but didn't really 
> > pursue it because the external flash I was using was
> > dedicated anyway, so 
> > it'd work itself out.
> > 
> > Now that its become part of my "second kit" since
> > the K10D, I'm using an 
> > older (PC connection) flash... it all works fine
> > (yes, I checked the trigger 
> > voltage), I'm using it in M, set the flash and
> > camera to the same aperture, 
> > but of course I can only set the *istD to 1/125.
> > 
> > In theory, X Sync is 1/150... but my other options
> > (depending on half or 
> > third EV setting) are 1/160 or 1/180...
> > 
> > Am I being thick, or does this seem really silly?
> > 
> > - Peter
> > 
> > 
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> 
> 
> http://www.photo.net/photos/RickW
> 
> 
>  
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Re: *istD X Sync

[Peter Loveday]

> Yes, I noticed this long ago when using my D in the studio with a PC
> cord connection. Never thought it worthy of mention. It certainly
> doesn't affect my photography.

Yeah, doesn't really affect anything, as you say.  Just struck me as an odd 
choice to not allow for it.

Ah well, I'll just pretend its only rated at 1/125 sync, and forget about it 
:)

- Peter


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Re: *istD X Sync

[Paul Stenquist]

Yes, I noticed this long ago when using my D in the studio with a PC  
cord connection. Never thought it worthy of mention. It certainly  
doesn't affect my photography.
Paul
On Feb 18, 2007, at 11:00 PM, J. C. O'Connell wrote:

> from a practical standpoint there is very
> very little difference between 1/150 and 1/125
> in terms of exposure. Its only about 1/4 of one
>  stop difference. Nothing to freak out about,
> just use the 1/125 setting and forget about it.
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
> Behalf Of
> Peter Loveday
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:23 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: *istD X Sync
>
>
>> The ambient light should be contributing almost
>> nothing to the exposure under these circumstances. The duration of  
>> the
>
>> flash exposure is 1/1000-1/20,000 sec, depending upon the  
>> exposure.  X
>
>> synch fires the flash at the midpoint of the shutter's exposure. So,
>> the shutter speed should make no difference at all.
>>
>> Or is there something I am missing too?
>
> Oh, I'm not complaining about the results I get at 1/125, it does work
> as
> expected.
>
> Its just that every one of my other Pentax bodies (8 in all) allow  
> me to
> set
> them to X sync; either by an explicit X position, or by virtue of the
> fact
> it is a 'standard' shutter speed, like 1/125 etc.
>
> I was just suprised that there is no way to set it to 1/150 at  
> all.  It
> does
> select that with an external dedicated flash, just can't do it with  
> a PC
>
> connection.
>
> - Peter
>
>
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RE: *istD X Sync

[J. C. O'Connell]

from a practical standpoint there is very
very little difference between 1/150 and 1/125
in terms of exposure. Its only about 1/4 of one
 stop difference. Nothing to freak out about,
just use the 1/125 setting and forget about it.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Peter Loveday
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:23 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: *istD X Sync


> The ambient light should be contributing almost
> nothing to the exposure under these circumstances. The duration of the

> flash exposure is 1/1000-1/20,000 sec, depending upon the exposure.  X

> synch fires the flash at the midpoint of the shutter's exposure. So, 
> the shutter speed should make no difference at all.
>
> Or is there something I am missing too?

Oh, I'm not complaining about the results I get at 1/125, it does work
as 
expected.

Its just that every one of my other Pentax bodies (8 in all) allow me to
set 
them to X sync; either by an explicit X position, or by virtue of the
fact 
it is a 'standard' shutter speed, like 1/125 etc.

I was just suprised that there is no way to set it to 1/150 at all.  It
does 
select that with an external dedicated flash, just can't do it with a PC

connection.

- Peter


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Re: *istD X Sync

[P. J. Alling]

The only way to access the 1/150 sec. X sync. speed is using a dedicated 
flash unit such as a AF200T or AF280T.  Set the shutter to 1/200 sec., 
when the flash cycles and is ready to fire, the camera will drop down to 
the sync speed from any setting above it in M mode, other than that I 
have no clue.

Peter Loveday wrote:
> Am I completely missing something, or is there no way to set the *istD to 
> its X Sync speed manually?
>
> I recall messing with this back when I first got it, but didn't really 
> pursue it because the external flash I was using was dedicated anyway, so 
> it'd work itself out.
>
> Now that its become part of my "second kit" since the K10D, I'm using an 
> older (PC connection) flash... it all works fine (yes, I checked the trigger 
> voltage), I'm using it in M, set the flash and camera to the same aperture, 
> but of course I can only set the *istD to 1/125.
>
> In theory, X Sync is 1/150... but my other options (depending on half or 
> third EV setting) are 1/160 or 1/180...
>
> Am I being thick, or does this seem really silly?
>
> - Peter
>
>
>   


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Re: *istD X Sync

[Peter Loveday]

> The ambient light should be contributing almost
> nothing to the exposure under these circumstances. The
> duration of the flash exposure is 1/1000-1/20,000 sec,
> depending upon the exposure.  X synch fires the flash
> at the midpoint of the shutter's exposure. So, the
> shutter speed should make no difference at all.
>
> Or is there something I am missing too?

Oh, I'm not complaining about the results I get at 1/125, it does work as 
expected.

Its just that every one of my other Pentax bodies (8 in all) allow me to set 
them to X sync; either by an explicit X position, or by virtue of the fact 
it is a 'standard' shutter speed, like 1/125 etc.

I was just suprised that there is no way to set it to 1/150 at all.  It does 
select that with an external dedicated flash, just can't do it with a PC 
connection.

- Peter


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Re: *istD X Sync

[Rick Womer]

Peter,

The ambient light should be contributing almost
nothing to the exposure under these circumstances. The
duration of the flash exposure is 1/1000-1/20,000 sec,
depending upon the exposure.  X synch fires the flash
at the midpoint of the shutter's exposure. So, the
shutter speed should make no difference at all.

Or is there something I am missing too?

Rick

--- Peter Loveday <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Am I completely missing something, or is there no
> way to set the *istD to 
> its X Sync speed manually?
> 
> I recall messing with this back when I first got it,
> but didn't really 
> pursue it because the external flash I was using was
> dedicated anyway, so 
> it'd work itself out.
> 
> Now that its become part of my "second kit" since
> the K10D, I'm using an 
> older (PC connection) flash... it all works fine
> (yes, I checked the trigger 
> voltage), I'm using it in M, set the flash and
> camera to the same aperture, 
> but of course I can only set the *istD to 1/125.
> 
> In theory, X Sync is 1/150... but my other options
> (depending on half or 
> third EV setting) are 1/160 or 1/180...
> 
> Am I being thick, or does this seem really silly?
> 
> - Peter
> 
> 
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Re: *istD AF

[Adam Maas]

Doug Franklin wrote:
> William Robb wrote:
> 
>> I've had a couple of messages telling me I should really try one of the high
>> end Canons or Nikons to see what their AF can do.
>> There is no way in hell that any AF Pentax would have made that shot unless
>> it is one hell of a crop.
> 
> Yeah, but what about the Canons and Nikons at the same price point?  I'm
> not being a dick, I truly don't know, and don't have access to the
> "other manufacturer" equipment to test it.
> 

Most of them are about as good as the K100D. I don't see much difference 
in AF performance between a 20D with a 17-40L and the K100D and 16-45 
DA, if anything the 20D is a hair faster, but the K100D has better frame 
coverage and does a bit better in low light courtesy of having more 
cross sensors. The Nikon D80 is pretty similar, although the D200 has a 
heftier AF drive motor.

-Adam

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Re: *istD AF

[Doug Franklin]

John Sessoms wrote:

> Second, I hold the shutter release halfway down while following the 
> action, awaiting the critical moment to shoot. But allowing the camera 
> to select the autofocus point has not proved workable. The camera is 
> like as not to choose a point away from the action I'm trying to 
> photograph, leaving my subject out of focus. In fact, when I'm trying to 
> shoot sequences, it's liable to choose different autofocus points for 
> each frame.

That's my experience, too.  I almost never let the camera choose the AF
point.  Especially since I sometimes have to bias the AF point to
compensate for the shutter lock time.  In the situation, subjects moving
through large angles while I pan with them, the shutter lock time causes
noticeable misplacement of the "(vertical) line of focus" if I don't
manage it manually.

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Re: *istD AF

[Doug Franklin]

William Robb wrote:

> I've had a couple of messages telling me I should really try one of the high
> end Canons or Nikons to see what their AF can do.
> There is no way in hell that any AF Pentax would have made that shot unless
> it is one hell of a crop.

Yeah, but what about the Canons and Nikons at the same price point?  I'm
not being a dick, I truly don't know, and don't have access to the
"other manufacturer" equipment to test it.

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Re: *istD AF

[Carlos Royo]

ann sanfedele escribió:


>>  
>>
> Well the ears fit - but not the high-pitched voice.  That would be the 
> "real" bunny rabbit - Bugs.
> 

But, although unfortunately I haven't had the pleasure to meet him in 
person, I bet he moves fast, at least when cycling. So he meets two of 
Cotty's requirements.

Carlos

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Re: *istD AF

[ann sanfedele]

Carlos Royo wrote:

>Cotty escribió:
>  
>
>>On 28/12/06, David J Brooks, discombobulated, unleashed:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I'll bring a Nikon and my 70-200VR F2.8 for comparison.All of them  
>>>perform very fast with that lens.
>>>  
>>>
>>Now we need something with tall ears, a high-pitched voice, that moves
>>very fast. Hwho am I thinking of?
>>
>>
>>
>
>That's easy: Frank Theriault, the cyclist.
>
>Carlos
>  
>
Well the ears fit - but not the high-pitched voice.  That would be the 
"real" bunny rabbit - Bugs.

ann

>  
>



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Re: *istD AF

[Paul Stenquist]

Yes, I select an autofocus point as well. I usually know where the  
main action will occur or where the head of the subject will be  
placed. I shot a bunch of pics today of Grace running in the yard  
with continuous autofocus and a focus point at the top of the frame  
with the camera in a vertical position. All of them seem to be in  
focus. I'm very happy with the Pentax autofocus and know it will be  
even better with the DA* lenses.
Paul
On Dec 29, 2006, at 7:51 PM, John Sessoms wrote:

>>
>> From:
>> "Tom C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> I was never happy with the camera-selected AF point.  How can it
>> possibly know my composition? I'm the 'pre-focus using center point
>> then compose type'.
> I find for baseball selecting one of the AF points based on where I
> think the action is going to be in the frame works better.
>
>
>
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Re: *istD AF

[John Sessoms]

>
> From:
> "Tom C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I was never happy with the camera-selected AF point.  How can it 
> possibly know my composition? I'm the 'pre-focus using center point 
> then compose type'.
I find for baseball selecting one of the AF points based on where I 
think the action is going to be in the frame works better.



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Re: *istD AF

[John Sessoms]

>
> From:
> Frits Wüthrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> With the recent discussion in mind that the K10D AF isn't fast enough for 
> football and American football as we call it in the Netherlands, I wanted to 
> show a photograph I made of a hockeygame with my *istD on continues 
> autofocus, using the FA 100-300 f4.5-5.6, a lens not well respected on this 
> list. This sport is at least as fast as the other ones mentioned, but there 
> are not many photos that go wrong on focus with this combo as long as there 
> is enough light.
>   
> It is a matter of following the action with the shutter halfway down till you 
> reach the decisive moment. I leave choosing the autofocus point up to the 
> camera.
Two things -

First, my comment was the *istD AF-C is not fast enough for me to shoot 
American Football and "Soccer", nor baseball.

I have no idea if the K10D is fast enough. I haven't been able to get my 
hands on the K10D to try it out. I did note, however, that as yet, none 
of the high speed focus motor lenses that are supposed to work with the 
K10D's faster autofocus are available to test it with even if I do.

Second, I hold the shutter release halfway down while following the 
action, awaiting the critical moment to shoot. But allowing the camera 
to select the autofocus point has not proved workable. The camera is 
like as not to choose a point away from the action I'm trying to 
photograph, leaving my subject out of focus. In fact, when I'm trying to 
shoot sequences, it's liable to choose different autofocus points for 
each frame.

And there's still the problem with the buffer being too small to give 
sufficient sequential shots..

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Re: *istD AF

[Frits Wüthrich]

And less then two hours after writing that, the mailman stopped and delivered 
a package. I have not much time now left for PDML as you understand.

On Thursday 28 December 2006 13:03, Jens Bladt wrote:
> Frits wrote:
> I wish the mail man would stop by and hand me my K10D.
>
> I'm sure he will - if you order one :-)
>
> I will be ordering mine some time in April - from Germany - TeKaDe or
> whatever - hoping it's still available at that time.
> I am planning to skip the 6th holliday week, which will then pay for most
> of my K10D. This way it's almost free :-)
>
> Regards
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> +45 56 63 77 11
> +45 23 43 85 77
> Skype: jensbladt248
>
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
> Frits Wüthrich
> Sendt: 28. december 2006 12:03
> Til: pdml@pdml.net
> Emne: Re: *istD AF
>
>
> Nice shots. You have a very big DOF, which also helps. I am shooting sports
> with the programline for highest shutterspeed, so lowest DOF. With a lens
> like mine at 150mm that is still f6.7, I am curious what the new f4
> 60-250mm lens will give for results in actual use.
>
> You have made me curious to find out how the *istD and K10D behave also in
> continous drive mode, which gives the AF system not much time to maintain
> focus. Perhaps pick a bicycle rider and make the 5 consecutive shots you
> asked for, and do this for both cameras. And also compare this with single
> drive mode results.
>
> I wish the mail man would stop by and hand me my K10D.
>
> Frits Wüthrich
>
> On Thursday 28 December 2006 09:47, Jens Bladt wrote:
> > For these shots I used Auto Selection of focus points.
> > Because the boys were a bit away from me, it worked surprisingly well
> > (the distance beteen me and the boys didn't change much):
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/sets/72157594200497565/show/
> > The four soccer-shots were taken within 2-3 seconds (according to the the
> > EXIF-data) between 19:35:10 and 19:35:12, July 15th 2006).
> > Regards
> >
> > Jens Bladt
> > http://www.jensbladt.dk
> > +45 56 63 77 11
> > +45 23 43 85 77
> > Skype: jensbladt248
> >
> > -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> > Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
> > Jens Bladt
> > Sendt: 28. december 2006 09:25
> > Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > Emne: RE: *istD AF
> >
> >
> > Yes, so it seems. Only in the PDF-manaul this is page 72.
> > So, what does it do, when the subject is fixed and YOU move the CAMERA?
> >
> > It may work fine in theory. But in the real world, the images rarely turn
> > out sharp, if the subject is moving. I can say this because I used this
> > camera close to every day for 28 months, releasing the shutter appr.
> > 45000 times.
> > Perhaps the micro chip can cope (which I doubt), but the speed of the
>
> whole
>
> > system is still slow compared to the mayor players in the high end DSLR
> > segment.
> >
> > To me this is not very important, since I don't do sports photography
> > (perhaps the camera limitations are the real reason for this). When I
>
> shoot
>
> > images like these I use manual focus, because I can't release the shutter
> > at the decisive moment if I use AF:
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/sets/72057594101295335/show/
> >
> > For pro photographers this is obviously a major issue, since they tend to
> > choose faster cameras.
> > I plan to buy a K10D anyway, regardsless that it is using the same old
> > (2003) SAFOX VIII system.
> > Obviously the speed is is not a huge priority for Pentax. Luckily it's
> > the same for me.
> >
> > Regards
> > Jens Bladt
> > http://www.jensbladt.dk
> > +45 56 63 77 11
> > +45 23 43 85 77
> > Skype: jensbladt248
> >
> > -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> > Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
> > Frits Wüthrich
> > Sendt: 27. december 2006 23:14
> > Til: pdml@pdml.net
> > Emne: Re: *istD AF
> >
> >
> > Taken from the *istD manual page 74:
> > "
> > The camera switches to predictive AF mode automatically when a moving
> > subject
> > is detected in AF.C (Continous mode).
> > "
> >
> > Frits Wüthrich
>
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Re: *istD AF

[David J Brooks]

Quoting William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>
> - Original Message -
> From: "wendy beard" Subject: Re: *istD AF
>
>
>>
>> Like this ;-)
>> http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/55471616
>>
>
> I've had a couple of messages telling me I should really try one of the high
> end Canons or Nikons to see what their AF can do.
> There is no way in hell that any AF Pentax would have made that shot unless
> it is one hell of a crop.
> Great picture, did you crop her ears ?

Thats why i use Nikon for my paying work.

Pentax does a great job as my backup or more specificlly, \my fun stuff

Dave
>
> William Robb
>
>
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Equine Photography in York Region

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Re: *istD AF

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Cotty" Subject: Re: *istD AF


> On 28/12/06, David J Brooks, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>>I'll bring a Nikon and my 70-200VR F2.8 for comparison.All of them  
>>perform very fast with that lens.
> 
> Now we need something with tall ears, a high-pitched voice, that moves
> very fast. Hwho am I thinking of?

See if you can talk Tanja into making the trip from Oz..

William Robb

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Re: *istD AF

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "wendy beard" Subject: Re: *istD AF


>
> Like this ;-)
> http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/55471616
>

I've had a couple of messages telling me I should really try one of the high
end Canons or Nikons to see what their AF can do.
There is no way in hell that any AF Pentax would have made that shot unless
it is one hell of a crop.
Great picture, did you crop her ears ?

William Robb


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Re: *istD AF

[David J Brooks]

Quoting Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On 28/12/06, David J Brooks, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>> I'll bring a Nikon and my 70-200VR F2.8 for comparison.All of them
>> perform very fast with that lens.
>
> Now we need something with tall ears, a high-pitched voice, that moves
> very fast. Hwho am I thinking of?

I hear they are in season around June 2-4 in the Carolina's.

Dave
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>   Cotty
>
>
> ___/\__
> ||   (O)   | People, Places, Pastiche
> ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
> _
>
>
>
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Re: *istD AF

[David J Brooks]

Quoting Carlos Royo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Cotty escribió:
>> On 28/12/06, David J Brooks, discombobulated, unleashed:
>>
>>> I'll bring a Nikon and my 70-200VR F2.8 for comparison.All of them
>>> perform very fast with that lens.
>>
>> Now we need something with tall ears, a high-pitched voice, that moves
>> very fast. Hwho am I thinking of?
>>
>
> That's easy: Frank Theriault, the cyclist.

Ahhh, you told.



Dave
>
> Carlos
>
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Re: *istD AF

[Carlos Royo]

Cotty escribió:
> On 28/12/06, David J Brooks, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> I'll bring a Nikon and my 70-200VR F2.8 for comparison.All of them  
>> perform very fast with that lens.
> 
> Now we need something with tall ears, a high-pitched voice, that moves
> very fast. Hwho am I thinking of?
> 

That's easy: Frank Theriault, the cyclist.

Carlos

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Re: *istD AF

[Cotty]

On 28/12/06, David J Brooks, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I'll bring a Nikon and my 70-200VR F2.8 for comparison.All of them  
>perform very fast with that lens.

Now we need something with tall ears, a high-pitched voice, that moves
very fast. Hwho am I thinking of?

-- 


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  Cotty


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||   (O)   | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



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Re: *istD AF

[David J Brooks]

Quoting Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I'll bring the 70-200 2.8 so Bill can have a play at GFM. All we need
> now is a few snarling dogs...

I'll bring a Nikon and my 70-200VR F2.8 for comparison.All of them  
perform very fast with that lens.


Dave
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>   Cotty
>
>
> ___/\__
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> _
>
>
>
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Re: *istD AF

[Cotty]

On 28/12/06, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I've been spending some time in my back yard taking pictures of my two 
>puppies cavorting in the snow. For the most part, I am getting in focus 
>pictures using continuous AF. It falls on it's face when my Belgian is 
>running right at me ang gets within about 6 meters or so, but she tends to 
>be running flat out, and is very fast. I doubt very much if the high end 
>Canons would have a better chance in this situation

I don't do much photography if this sort, but I have shot a couple of
football (soccer) matches. Once with the D60, and once with the 1DmII.
The difference was overwhelming, but I put that down to the 'ancient'
technology in the D60. Having used the *ist Ds, I now appreciate how
good the AF in the 1D is.

I've said it many times in the past, but if I knew then what I know now,
I would not have purchased a new D60, I would have gone for a used 1D
(yes, the original 4MP camera). The quick reaction of the AF is pretty
impressive, in both low light and low contrast subjects.

I'll bring the 70-200 2.8 so Bill can have a play at GFM. All we need
now is a few snarling dogs...

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  Cotty


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Re: *istD AF

[Tom C]

We we're talking about dogs, not polar bears.


Tom C.



>From: "wendy beard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
>Subject: Re: *istD AF
>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 11:30:13 -0500
>
>On 12/28/06, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I've been spending some time in my back yard taking pictures of my two
> > puppies cavorting in the snow. For the most part, I am getting in focus
> > pictures using continuous AF. It falls on it's face when my Belgian is
> > running right at me ang gets within about 6 meters or so, but she tends 
>to
> > be running flat out, and is very fast. I doubt very much if the high end
> > Canons would have a better chance in this situation.
> >
>
>Like this ;-)
>http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/55471616
>
>wendy
>
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Re: *istD AF

[P. J. Alling]

Oh my God, you've cut off her ears...

Very nice shot, illustrates your point.

wendy beard wrote:
> On 12/28/06, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> I've been spending some time in my back yard taking pictures of my two
>> puppies cavorting in the snow. For the most part, I am getting in focus
>> pictures using continuous AF. It falls on it's face when my Belgian is
>> running right at me ang gets within about 6 meters or so, but she tends to
>> be running flat out, and is very fast. I doubt very much if the high end
>> Canons would have a better chance in this situation.
>>
>> 
>
> Like this ;-)
> http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/55471616
>
> wendy
>
>   


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Re: *istD AF

[wendy beard]

On 12/28/06, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I've been spending some time in my back yard taking pictures of my two
> puppies cavorting in the snow. For the most part, I am getting in focus
> pictures using continuous AF. It falls on it's face when my Belgian is
> running right at me ang gets within about 6 meters or so, but she tends to
> be running flat out, and is very fast. I doubt very much if the high end
> Canons would have a better chance in this situation.
>

Like this ;-)
http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/55471616

wendy

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Re: *istD AF

[Stan Halpin]

The Limited series that I have used have a smooth focusing feel very 
reminiscent of the K lenses...

Stan


On Dec 27, 2006, at 4:24 PM, J. C. O'Connell wrote:

> It sounds to me that what you both really want
> is good manual focus. Thats what I prefer. AF
> to me it really only good/necessary with action
> where you just cant keep up manually focussing.
> For everything else, which is the majority
> of stuff in my case, I just want really nice, ultra smooth, manual
> focusing lenses. Lenses Pentax doesnt make anymore
> unfortunately. e.g. like the older Pentax K/M type lenses.
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Godfrey DiGiorgi
> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 3:53 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: *istD AF
>
>
> This is why the QuickShift focusing mount is so helpful. Its Canon
> workalike ... full time manual focus ... is one of the details that I
> miss most moving to the Pentax system. With both of them, you let the
> camera focus as well as it can, then just tweak the focus that little
> increment to nail what YOU want perfectly. No fussing around with
> lock and reframe or manipulating the focus point manually ...
>
> This is the primary reason I can't wait for the DA35 and DA55 to be
> released, and why I still consider trading the FA77 for a DA70.
>
> Godfrey
>
> On Dec 27, 2006, at 12:17 PM, Tom C wrote:
>
>> I was never happy with the camera-selected AF point.  How can it
>> possibly
>> know my composition? I'm the 'pre-focus using center point then
>> compose
>> type'.
>
>
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Re: *istD AF

[Doug Franklin]

William Robb wrote:

> John Francis and Doug Franklin are shooting racing cars using
> Pentax predictive AF, but I know that most field sports
> photographers tend to use manual focus.

It's easy to get the shots you expect with manual focus, but, without
AF, it's very difficult to get the shot when the unexpected happens.  So
for me it tends to depend on exactly where I am around the track, and
whether I've got enough light to have "useful amounts" of DoF at the
"primary" focal distance.  The up side, and the down side, is that I'm
often panning through large angles to follow the action, which
introduces it's own "barrel of focus" effects.

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Re: *istD AF

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Jens Bladt" Subject: RE: *istD AF


Yes, so it seems. Only in the PDF-manaul this is page 72.
So, what does it do, when the subject is fixed and YOU move the CAMERA?

It may work fine in theory. But in the real world, the images rarely turn
out sharp, if the subject is moving. I can say this because I used this
camera close to every day for 28 months, releasing the shutter appr. 45000
times.
Perhaps the micro chip can cope (which I doubt), but the speed of the whole
system is still slow compared to the mayor players in the high end DSLR
segment.

To me this is not very important, since I don't do sports photography
(perhaps the camera limitations are the real reason for this). When I shoot
images like these I use manual focus, because I can't release the shutter at
the decisive moment if I use AF:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/sets/72057594101295335/show/

For pro photographers this is obviously a major issue, since they tend to
choose faster cameras.
I plan to buy a K10D anyway, regardsless that it is using the same old
(2003) SAFOX VIII system.
Obviously the speed is is not a huge priority for Pentax. Luckily it's the
same for me.


Predictive AF is a pretty misunderstood tool. It only works if the subject 
is moving in a predictable (read: straight line) way, and yes, the AF has to 
be able to keep up with what is happening.
John Francis and Doug Franklin are shooting racing cars using Pentax 
predictive AF, but I know that most field sports photographers tend to use 
manual focus.
The better ones know the sport they are shooting, and can predictwhere the 
action will take place and be ready for it.

William Robb 


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Re: *istD AF

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Jens Bladt" Subject: RE: *istD AF


> True, Cotty - my point exactly.
> When the issue is the AF capability of the K10D - I guess it's fair to 
> say,
> that it does not represent a vast improvement as far as action shooting is
> concerned.
> This camera (or any Pentax camera for that matter) is not especially
> designated to action shooting.
> For this purpose other brands offer more obvious choises, allthough at a
> very different price level.
>

I've been spending some time in my back yard taking pictures of my two 
puppies cavorting in the snow. For the most part, I am getting in focus 
pictures using continuous AF. It falls on it's face when my Belgian is 
running right at me ang gets within about 6 meters or so, but she tends to 
be running flat out, and is very fast. I doubt very much if the high end 
Canons would have a better chance in this situation.

William Robb 


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RE: *istD AF

[Tim Øsleby]

If it isn't available in April it will be replaced with a better
alternative. A mark2, not a downgrade. This is what my crystal ball tells
me. 


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jens
Bladt
Sent: 28. desember 2006 13:04
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: RE: *istD AF

Frits wrote:
I wish the mail man would stop by and hand me my K10D.

I'm sure he will - if you order one :-)

I will be ordering mine some time in April - from Germany - TeKaDe or
whatever - hoping it's still available at that time.
I am planning to skip the 6th holliday week, which will then pay for most of
my K10D. This way it's almost free :-)

Regards
Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
+45 56 63 77 11
+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
Frits Wüthrich
Sendt: 28. december 2006 12:03
Til: pdml@pdml.net
Emne: Re: *istD AF


Nice shots. You have a very big DOF, which also helps. I am shooting sports
with the programline for highest shutterspeed, so lowest DOF. With a lens
like mine at 150mm that is still f6.7, I am curious what the new f4 60-250mm
lens will give for results in actual use.

You have made me curious to find out how the *istD and K10D behave also in
continous drive mode, which gives the AF system not much time to maintain
focus. Perhaps pick a bicycle rider and make the 5 consecutive shots you
asked for, and do this for both cameras. And also compare this with single
drive mode results.

I wish the mail man would stop by and hand me my K10D.

Frits Wüthrich

On Thursday 28 December 2006 09:47, Jens Bladt wrote:
> For these shots I used Auto Selection of focus points.
> Because the boys were a bit away from me, it worked surprisingly well (the
> distance beteen me and the boys didn't change much):
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/sets/72157594200497565/show/
> The four soccer-shots were taken within 2-3 seconds (according to the the
> EXIF-data) between 19:35:10 and 19:35:12, July 15th 2006).
> Regards
>
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> +45 56 63 77 11
> +45 23 43 85 77
> Skype: jensbladt248
>
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
> Jens Bladt
> Sendt: 28. december 2006 09:25
> Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Emne: RE: *istD AF
>
>
> Yes, so it seems. Only in the PDF-manaul this is page 72.
> So, what does it do, when the subject is fixed and YOU move the CAMERA?
>
> It may work fine in theory. But in the real world, the images rarely turn
> out sharp, if the subject is moving. I can say this because I used this
> camera close to every day for 28 months, releasing the shutter appr. 45000
> times.
> Perhaps the micro chip can cope (which I doubt), but the speed of the
whole
> system is still slow compared to the mayor players in the high end DSLR
> segment.
>
> To me this is not very important, since I don't do sports photography
> (perhaps the camera limitations are the real reason for this). When I
shoot
> images like these I use manual focus, because I can't release the shutter
> at the decisive moment if I use AF:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/sets/72057594101295335/show/
>
> For pro photographers this is obviously a major issue, since they tend to
> choose faster cameras.
> I plan to buy a K10D anyway, regardsless that it is using the same old
> (2003) SAFOX VIII system.
> Obviously the speed is is not a huge priority for Pentax. Luckily it's the
> same for me.
>
> Regards
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> +45 56 63 77 11
> +45 23 43 85 77
> Skype: jensbladt248
>
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
> Frits Wüthrich
> Sendt: 27. december 2006 23:14
> Til: pdml@pdml.net
> Emne: Re: *istD AF
>
>
> Taken from the *istD manual page 74:
> "
> The camera switches to predictive AF mode automatically when a moving
> subject
> is detected in AF.C (Continous mode).
> "
>
> Frits Wüthrich
>

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RE: *istD AF

[Jens Bladt]

Yes, perhaps - hopefully - it will.
At least the Hoya Pentax HD Corporation controles a lot more muscle as well
a larger (planned to come) combined research department :-)

BTW: What does HD mean? High Definition?
Or is it something like "incorporated" or "ldt" ??

Regards

Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
+45 56 63 77 11
+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af Cotty
Sendt: 28. december 2006 12:17
Til: pentax list
Emne: Re: *istD AF


On 28/12/06, Jens Bladt, discombobulated, unleashed:

>True, Cotty - my point exactly.
>When the issue is the AF capability of the K10D - I guess it's fair to say,
>that it does not represent a vast improvement as far as action shooting is
>concerned.
>This camera (or any Pentax camera for that matter) is not especially
>designated to action shooting.
>For this purpose other brands offer more obvious choises, allthough at a
>very different price level.

Well if you are saying that Pentax does not offer a choice in this area
then that's true, and one pays one's money and one takes one's choice,
as indeed I did a while back. Let's hope that the tie-up with Hoya will
lead to better Pentax choices in the coming years :-)

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  Cotty


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RE: *istD AF

[Jens Bladt]

Frits wrote:
I wish the mail man would stop by and hand me my K10D.

I'm sure he will - if you order one :-)

I will be ordering mine some time in April - from Germany - TeKaDe or
whatever - hoping it's still available at that time.
I am planning to skip the 6th holliday week, which will then pay for most of
my K10D. This way it's almost free :-)

Regards
Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
+45 56 63 77 11
+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
Frits Wüthrich
Sendt: 28. december 2006 12:03
Til: pdml@pdml.net
Emne: Re: *istD AF


Nice shots. You have a very big DOF, which also helps. I am shooting sports
with the programline for highest shutterspeed, so lowest DOF. With a lens
like mine at 150mm that is still f6.7, I am curious what the new f4 60-250mm
lens will give for results in actual use.

You have made me curious to find out how the *istD and K10D behave also in
continous drive mode, which gives the AF system not much time to maintain
focus. Perhaps pick a bicycle rider and make the 5 consecutive shots you
asked for, and do this for both cameras. And also compare this with single
drive mode results.

I wish the mail man would stop by and hand me my K10D.

Frits Wüthrich

On Thursday 28 December 2006 09:47, Jens Bladt wrote:
> For these shots I used Auto Selection of focus points.
> Because the boys were a bit away from me, it worked surprisingly well (the
> distance beteen me and the boys didn't change much):
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/sets/72157594200497565/show/
> The four soccer-shots were taken within 2-3 seconds (according to the the
> EXIF-data) between 19:35:10 and 19:35:12, July 15th 2006).
> Regards
>
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> +45 56 63 77 11
> +45 23 43 85 77
> Skype: jensbladt248
>
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
> Jens Bladt
> Sendt: 28. december 2006 09:25
> Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Emne: RE: *istD AF
>
>
> Yes, so it seems. Only in the PDF-manaul this is page 72.
> So, what does it do, when the subject is fixed and YOU move the CAMERA?
>
> It may work fine in theory. But in the real world, the images rarely turn
> out sharp, if the subject is moving. I can say this because I used this
> camera close to every day for 28 months, releasing the shutter appr. 45000
> times.
> Perhaps the micro chip can cope (which I doubt), but the speed of the
whole
> system is still slow compared to the mayor players in the high end DSLR
> segment.
>
> To me this is not very important, since I don't do sports photography
> (perhaps the camera limitations are the real reason for this). When I
shoot
> images like these I use manual focus, because I can't release the shutter
> at the decisive moment if I use AF:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/sets/72057594101295335/show/
>
> For pro photographers this is obviously a major issue, since they tend to
> choose faster cameras.
> I plan to buy a K10D anyway, regardsless that it is using the same old
> (2003) SAFOX VIII system.
> Obviously the speed is is not a huge priority for Pentax. Luckily it's the
> same for me.
>
> Regards
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> +45 56 63 77 11
> +45 23 43 85 77
> Skype: jensbladt248
>
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
> Frits Wüthrich
> Sendt: 27. december 2006 23:14
> Til: pdml@pdml.net
> Emne: Re: *istD AF
>
>
> Taken from the *istD manual page 74:
> "
> The camera switches to predictive AF mode automatically when a moving
> subject
> is detected in AF.C (Continous mode).
> "
>
> Frits Wüthrich
>

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Re: *istD AF

[Cotty]

On 28/12/06, Jens Bladt, discombobulated, unleashed:

>True, Cotty - my point exactly.
>When the issue is the AF capability of the K10D - I guess it's fair to say,
>that it does not represent a vast improvement as far as action shooting is
>concerned.
>This camera (or any Pentax camera for that matter) is not especially
>designated to action shooting.
>For this purpose other brands offer more obvious choises, allthough at a
>very different price level.

Well if you are saying that Pentax does not offer a choice in this area
then that's true, and one pays one's money and one takes one's choice,
as indeed I did a while back. Let's hope that the tie-up with Hoya will
lead to better Pentax choices in the coming years :-)

-- 


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  Cotty


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Re: *istD AF

[Frits Wüthrich]

Nice shots. You have a very big DOF, which also helps. I am shooting sports 
with the programline for highest shutterspeed, so lowest DOF. With a lens 
like mine at 150mm that is still f6.7, I am curious what the new f4 60-250mm 
lens will give for results in actual use.

You have made me curious to find out how the *istD and K10D behave also in 
continous drive mode, which gives the AF system not much time to maintain 
focus. Perhaps pick a bicycle rider and make the 5 consecutive shots you 
asked for, and do this for both cameras. And also compare this with single 
drive mode results.

I wish the mail man would stop by and hand me my K10D.

Frits Wüthrich

On Thursday 28 December 2006 09:47, Jens Bladt wrote:
> For these shots I used Auto Selection of focus points.
> Because the boys were a bit away from me, it worked surprisingly well (the
> distance beteen me and the boys didn't change much):
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/sets/72157594200497565/show/
> The four soccer-shots were taken within 2-3 seconds (according to the the
> EXIF-data) between 19:35:10 and 19:35:12, July 15th 2006).
> Regards
>
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> +45 56 63 77 11
> +45 23 43 85 77
> Skype: jensbladt248
>
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
> Jens Bladt
> Sendt: 28. december 2006 09:25
> Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Emne: RE: *istD AF
>
>
> Yes, so it seems. Only in the PDF-manaul this is page 72.
> So, what does it do, when the subject is fixed and YOU move the CAMERA?
>
> It may work fine in theory. But in the real world, the images rarely turn
> out sharp, if the subject is moving. I can say this because I used this
> camera close to every day for 28 months, releasing the shutter appr. 45000
> times.
> Perhaps the micro chip can cope (which I doubt), but the speed of the whole
> system is still slow compared to the mayor players in the high end DSLR
> segment.
>
> To me this is not very important, since I don't do sports photography
> (perhaps the camera limitations are the real reason for this). When I shoot
> images like these I use manual focus, because I can't release the shutter
> at the decisive moment if I use AF:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/sets/72057594101295335/show/
>
> For pro photographers this is obviously a major issue, since they tend to
> choose faster cameras.
> I plan to buy a K10D anyway, regardsless that it is using the same old
> (2003) SAFOX VIII system.
> Obviously the speed is is not a huge priority for Pentax. Luckily it's the
> same for me.
>
> Regards
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> +45 56 63 77 11
> +45 23 43 85 77
> Skype: jensbladt248
>
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
> Frits Wüthrich
> Sendt: 27. december 2006 23:14
> Til: pdml@pdml.net
> Emne: Re: *istD AF
>
>
> Taken from the *istD manual page 74:
> "
> The camera switches to predictive AF mode automatically when a moving
> subject
> is detected in AF.C (Continous mode).
> "
>
> Frits Wüthrich
>

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RE: *istD AF

[Jens Bladt]

True, Cotty - my point exactly.
When the issue is the AF capability of the K10D - I guess it's fair to say,
that it does not represent a vast improvement as far as action shooting is
concerned.
This camera (or any Pentax camera for that matter) is not especially
designated to action shooting.
For this purpose other brands offer more obvious choises, allthough at a
very different price level.

Regards
Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
+45 56 63 77 11
+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af Cotty
Sendt: 28. december 2006 09:47
Til: pentax list
Emne: Re: *istD AF


On 27/12/06, Jens Bladt, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Heck - some Canons use 45 AF points (giving a different meaning to the word
>"predictive") as well as two separate micro processors especially dedicated
>to the focusing system (This may be the reason why a lot of action shooters
>are Canon users).
>Pentax does not aim to compete with this at all. If they did, they would
>have improved the AF system - to SAFOX IX or X or whatever.

One thing you must remember here is that the Canon system you describe
is found on the 1D series, which is an order of magnitude in price above
the level that the K10D is set at. It would be more appropriate to
compare the K10D to Canon examples such as the 30D. If you want follow-
focus ability on a professional level, you cannot expect it at the price
point you are using.

--


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  Cotty


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Re: *istD AF

[Cotty]

On 27/12/06, Jens Bladt, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Heck - some Canons use 45 AF points (giving a different meaning to the word
>"predictive") as well as two separate micro processors especially dedicated
>to the focusing system (This may be the reason why a lot of action shooters
>are Canon users).
>Pentax does not aim to compete with this at all. If they did, they would
>have improved the AF system - to SAFOX IX or X or whatever.

One thing you must remember here is that the Canon system you describe
is found on the 1D series, which is an order of magnitude in price above
the level that the K10D is set at. It would be more appropriate to
compare the K10D to Canon examples such as the 30D. If you want follow-
focus ability on a professional level, you cannot expect it at the price
point you are using.

-- 


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  Cotty


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RE: *istD AF

[Jens Bladt]

For these shots I used Auto Selection of focus points.
Because the boys were a bit away from me, it worked surprisingly well (the
distance beteen me and the boys didn't change much):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/sets/72157594200497565/show/
The four soccer-shots were taken within 2-3 seconds (according to the the
EXIF-data) between 19:35:10 and 19:35:12, July 15th 2006).
Regards

Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
+45 56 63 77 11
+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
Jens Bladt
Sendt: 28. december 2006 09:25
Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Emne: RE: *istD AF


Yes, so it seems. Only in the PDF-manaul this is page 72.
So, what does it do, when the subject is fixed and YOU move the CAMERA?

It may work fine in theory. But in the real world, the images rarely turn
out sharp, if the subject is moving. I can say this because I used this
camera close to every day for 28 months, releasing the shutter appr. 45000
times.
Perhaps the micro chip can cope (which I doubt), but the speed of the whole
system is still slow compared to the mayor players in the high end DSLR
segment.

To me this is not very important, since I don't do sports photography
(perhaps the camera limitations are the real reason for this). When I shoot
images like these I use manual focus, because I can't release the shutter at
the decisive moment if I use AF:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/sets/72057594101295335/show/

For pro photographers this is obviously a major issue, since they tend to
choose faster cameras.
I plan to buy a K10D anyway, regardsless that it is using the same old
(2003) SAFOX VIII system.
Obviously the speed is is not a huge priority for Pentax. Luckily it's the
same for me.

Regards
Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
+45 56 63 77 11
+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
Frits Wüthrich
Sendt: 27. december 2006 23:14
Til: pdml@pdml.net
Emne: Re: *istD AF


Taken from the *istD manual page 74:
"
The camera switches to predictive AF mode automatically when a moving
subject
is detected in AF.C (Continous mode).
"

Frits Wüthrich

On Wednesday 27 December 2006 22:36, Jens Bladt wrote:
> No, I doubt that this camera does feature predictive AF - it doesn't
really
> track or calculate anything AFAIK.  Predictive AF means calculating where
> the subject will be at the actual time of release - using calculations
> based on the pattern that a moving object describes on the focus screen.
> The *ist D does not do such calculations, does it? It's not exactly F16
> weapons technolgy :-)
>
> Even if it did, it wouldn't work well when the object is moving very
> directly towards the camera - then there is only VERY little movement to
> calculate (the movement caused by the subject changing it's size as it's
> getting closer or farther away). All  it does is focus on what ever is
> close or has high contrast. It's really just a focus trap -  that is
always
> a little bit too late.
>
> Secondly I never let the camera choose the AF point. I always use the
point
> in the middle. So, this can't be the reason for my shots beeing unsharp
> either. The only reason I can think of is that it doesn't focus properly
on
> moving objects, because it's too slow. When ever the red square appears,
> the object is allready out of focus again, before the shutter fires.
>
> The K10D and the *ist D does have the same generation AF system, according
> to dpreview; the SAFOX VIII.
> I have never heard or read anywhere, that this system had predictive
> autofocus.
>
> The PZ-1 was said to have this (according the the user manual - which says
> about SERVO mode: "The predictive autofocus function is effective in this
> mode"). But I seriously doubt that the camera computer actaully did such
> focus calculations or really is very predictive.
>
> Even if they have just NAMED the servo mode/continuos mode "predictable
> autofucus" - it's still not very fast, is it?
>
> Regards
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> +45 56 63 77 11
> +45 23 43 85 77
> Skype: jensbladt248
>
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af John
> Francis
> Sendt: 27. december 2006 21:12
> Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Emne: Re: *istD AF
>
> On Wed, Dec 27, 2006 at 04:47:49PM +0100, Jens Bladt wrote:
> > Very nice photograph - in fact it's excellent!
> > This was not done with continous AF, was it? Well, at some distance any
> > photograph is always sharp. Only not necessarily where you wnat it to
be.
> > In my experience the *istD AF/Continuos AF is not fast enough for
> > anything m

RE: *istD AF

[Jens Bladt]

Yes, so it seems. Only in the PDF-manaul this is page 72.
So, what does it do, when the subject is fixed and YOU move the CAMERA?

It may work fine in theory. But in the real world, the images rarely turn
out sharp, if the subject is moving. I can say this because I used this
camera close to every day for 28 months, releasing the shutter appr. 45000
times.
Perhaps the micro chip can cope (which I doubt), but the speed of the whole
system is still slow compared to the mayor players in the high end DSLR
segment.

To me this is not very important, since I don't do sports photography
(perhaps the camera limitations are the real reason for this). When I shoot
images like these I use manual focus, because I can't release the shutter at
the decisive moment if I use AF:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bladt/sets/72057594101295335/show/

For pro photographers this is obviously a major issue, since they tend to
choose faster cameras.
I plan to buy a K10D anyway, regardsless that it is using the same old
(2003) SAFOX VIII system.
Obviously the speed is is not a huge priority for Pentax. Luckily it's the
same for me.

Regards
Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk
+45 56 63 77 11
+45 23 43 85 77
Skype: jensbladt248

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
Frits Wüthrich
Sendt: 27. december 2006 23:14
Til: pdml@pdml.net
Emne: Re: *istD AF


Taken from the *istD manual page 74:
"
The camera switches to predictive AF mode automatically when a moving
subject
is detected in AF.C (Continous mode).
"

Frits Wüthrich

On Wednesday 27 December 2006 22:36, Jens Bladt wrote:
> No, I doubt that this camera does feature predictive AF - it doesn't
really
> track or calculate anything AFAIK.  Predictive AF means calculating where
> the subject will be at the actual time of release - using calculations
> based on the pattern that a moving object describes on the focus screen.
> The *ist D does not do such calculations, does it? It's not exactly F16
> weapons technolgy :-)
>
> Even if it did, it wouldn't work well when the object is moving very
> directly towards the camera - then there is only VERY little movement to
> calculate (the movement caused by the subject changing it's size as it's
> getting closer or farther away). All  it does is focus on what ever is
> close or has high contrast. It's really just a focus trap -  that is
always
> a little bit too late.
>
> Secondly I never let the camera choose the AF point. I always use the
point
> in the middle. So, this can't be the reason for my shots beeing unsharp
> either. The only reason I can think of is that it doesn't focus properly
on
> moving objects, because it's too slow. When ever the red square appears,
> the object is allready out of focus again, before the shutter fires.
>
> The K10D and the *ist D does have the same generation AF system, according
> to dpreview; the SAFOX VIII.
> I have never heard or read anywhere, that this system had predictive
> autofocus.
>
> The PZ-1 was said to have this (according the the user manual - which says
> about SERVO mode: "The predictive autofocus function is effective in this
> mode"). But I seriously doubt that the camera computer actaully did such
> focus calculations or really is very predictive.
>
> Even if they have just NAMED the servo mode/continuos mode "predictable
> autofucus" - it's still not very fast, is it?
>
> Regards
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> +45 56 63 77 11
> +45 23 43 85 77
> Skype: jensbladt248
>
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af John
> Francis
> Sendt: 27. december 2006 21:12
> Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Emne: Re: *istD AF
>
> On Wed, Dec 27, 2006 at 04:47:49PM +0100, Jens Bladt wrote:
> > Very nice photograph - in fact it's excellent!
> > This was not done with continous AF, was it? Well, at some distance any
> > photograph is always sharp. Only not necessarily where you wnat it to
be.
> > In my experience the *istD AF/Continuos AF is not fast enough for
> > anything movuing faster than a walking human. I have pointed this out
> > many times on this list. Other list members allways seem to answer me,
> > that shots like this must be done using MF.
>
> That's a misrepresentation of the history.   When you've posted examples
> in the past, it's often been pointed out to you that the problem lies with
> the selection of the auto-focus point.  The camera is quite capable of
> tracking moving objects at speeds well in excess of humans walking (as
> photographs from myself and Doug Franklin, amongst others, demonstrate).
>
>
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> PDML

Re: *istD AF

[Adam Maas]

SAFOX VIII is the sensor. The designation doesn't include the AF 
algorithms, which are seriously improved on the K series bodies.

And the D very definitely has predictive AF. So do all of the SAFOX VIII 
equipped bodies.

-Adam


Jens Bladt wrote:
> No, I doubt that this camera does feature predictive AF - it doesn't really
> track or calculate anything AFAIK.  Predictive AF means calculating where
> the subject will be at the actual time of release - using calculations based
> on the pattern that a moving object describes on the focus screen. The *ist
> D does not do such calculations, does it? It's not exactly F16 weapons
> technolgy :-)
> 
> Even if it did, it wouldn't work well when the object is moving very
> directly towards the camera - then there is only VERY little movement to
> calculate (the movement caused by the subject changing it's size as it's
> getting closer or farther away). All  it does is focus on what ever is close
> or has high contrast. It's really just a focus trap -  that is always a
> little bit too late.
> 
> Secondly I never let the camera choose the AF point. I always use the point
> in the middle. So, this can't be the reason for my shots beeing unsharp
> either. The only reason I can think of is that it doesn't focus properly on
> moving objects, because it's too slow. When ever the red square appears, the
> object is allready out of focus again, before the shutter fires.
> 
> The K10D and the *ist D does have the same generation AF system, according
> to dpreview; the SAFOX VIII.
> I have never heard or read anywhere, that this system had predictive
> autofocus.
> 
> The PZ-1 was said to have this (according the the user manual - which says
> about SERVO mode: "The predictive autofocus function is effective in this
> mode"). But I seriously doubt that the camera computer actaully did such
> focus calculations or really is very predictive.
> 
> Even if they have just NAMED the servo mode/continuos mode "predictable
> autofucus" - it's still not very fast, is it?
> 
> Regards
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> +45 56 63 77 11
> +45 23 43 85 77
> Skype: jensbladt248
> 
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af John
> Francis
> Sendt: 27. december 2006 21:12
> Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Emne: Re: *istD AF
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 27, 2006 at 04:47:49PM +0100, Jens Bladt wrote:
>> Very nice photograph - in fact it's excellent!
>> This was not done with continous AF, was it? Well, at some distance any
>> photograph is always sharp. Only not necessarily where you wnat it to be.
>> In my experience the *istD AF/Continuos AF is not fast enough for anything
>> movuing faster than a walking human. I have pointed this out many times on
>> this list. Other list members allways seem to answer me, that shots like
>> this must be done using MF.
> 
> That's a misrepresentation of the history.   When you've posted examples
> in the past, it's often been pointed out to you that the problem lies with
> the selection of the auto-focus point.  The camera is quite capable of
> tracking moving objects at speeds well in excess of humans walking (as
> photographs from myself and Doug Franklin, amongst others, demonstrate).
> 
> 
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Re: *istD AF

[Adam Maas]

Jens Bladt wrote:
> I seem to have read that FPS of the K10D is a tiny bit faster than the D.
> Write speed is faster and the buffer is larger.
> But the AF system has not changed. It's still SAFOX VIII.
> Your shot is excellent. But IMO it's "more an exception than a rule" about
> how the D perform action shooting/autofocus.
> The fact that some list members use manual focus rather than AF for this
> type of shooting seems to confirm this.
> Let's face it - Safox VIII is not the fastest or most accurate or most
> predictive AF system on this planet

SAFOX VIII is the sensor design, not the entire AF assembly. The K 
series have greatly improved AF algorithms over the earlier bodies. The 
D and K100D are similar in speed (K100D is a little faster) since the D 
still has a more powerful motor than the K100D, which makes up to some 
extent for the slower and less positive AF algorithm. The K10D has the 
D's motor, driven even faster by the higher voltage of the Li-Ion 
battery, and AF algorithms improved over the K100D. It's very definitely 
faster than earlier Pentax's. Also one area in which SAFOX VIII excels 
is focus accuracy, unlike the units in most similar bodies from other 
vendors (D80 and Canon Rebel XTi/400D excepted, they use sensors 
inherited from much higher-spec bodies)


> 
> Heck - some Canons use 45 AF points (giving a different meaning to the word
> "predictive") as well as two separate micro processors especially dedicated
> to the focusing system (This may be the reason why a lot of action shooters
> are Canon users).

Canon uses one microprocessor dedicated to the AF system on the 1 series 
bodies and another for everything else (The digitals add a third, the 
DiGiC processor for image processing). Note that the 45 points of the 
Canon AF unit are all concentrated in the centre of the frame and cover 
less of the frame than the 11 point units in the D, DS and K bodies (As 
well as the similar 11 point unit in the Nikon D2's and F6). That's the 
big weakness of the Canon's.

> Pentax does not aim to compete with this at all. If they did, they would
> have improved the AF system - to SAFOX IX or X or whatever.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> 

Saying that belies a great misunderstanding of the AF performance of the 
newer bodies. I suggest you try a K series body before making any claims 
about their performance. The SAFOX VIII designation merely refers to the 
sensor design, which is only a small part of AF performance (witness the 
differences in performance between the DL's and the other SAFOX VIII 
bodies, the DL's use a cut-down version of the SAFOX VIII sensor that 
isn't nearly as good).

-Adam

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Re: *istD AF

[Mark Cassino]

Excellent shot, Frits!

I used the *ist-D for shooting high school swim meets using the 
continuous AF setting. Like you I usually let the camera pick the AF 
point. Not every shot came out and I had to learn a few tricks - like 
focusing on the water in front of a fast butterfly swimmer coming head 
on, or pre-focusing manually to shot some of the dives. But over all, 
the AF performance was fine - I alway brought back a few hundred shots 
after each meet for the parents to buy.

- MCC

Frits Wüthrich wrote:
> With the recent discussion in mind that the K10D AF isn't fast enough for 
> football and American football as we call it in the Netherlands, I wanted to 
> show a photograph I made of a hockeygame with my *istD on continues 
> autofocus, using the FA 100-300 f4.5-5.6, a lens not well respected on this 
> list. This sport is at least as fast as the other ones mentioned, but there 
> are not many photos that go wrong on focus with this combo as long as there 
> is enough light.
> Take a look at:
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~wuthrich/foto/IMGP4879.jpg
> It is a matter of following the action with the shutter halfway down till you 
> reach the decisive moment. I leave choosing the autofocus point up to the 
> camera.
> 
> I wonder what my K10D will do for me in this area. It was sent to me on 22 
> Dec 
> from TeKaDe in Germany, it didn't arrive yet, can be any moment now. I need 
> to start saving for the 60-250 lens.
> 


-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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Kalamazoo
www.markcassino.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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RE: *istD AF

[Tom C]

>Heck - some Canons use 45 AF points (giving a different meaning to the word
>"predictive") as well as two separate micro processors especially dedicated
>to the focusing system (This may be the reason why a lot of action shooters
>are Canon users).
>Pentax does not aim to compete with this at all. If they did, they would
>have improved the AF system - to SAFOX IX or X or whatever.
>
>Regards
>
>Jens Bladt

Pentax Corp. chose the Shake Reduction approach to more in focus images.  
They knew quite well that Pentax users shudder and tremble with an almost 
paroxysmal excitement whenever they get  to touch the object of their 
desire. ;-)

Tom C.



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Re: *istD AF

[Frits Wüthrich]

Taken from the *istD manual page 74:
"
The camera switches to predictive AF mode automatically when a moving subject 
is detected in AF.C (Continous mode).
"

Frits Wüthrich

On Wednesday 27 December 2006 22:36, Jens Bladt wrote:
> No, I doubt that this camera does feature predictive AF - it doesn't really
> track or calculate anything AFAIK.  Predictive AF means calculating where
> the subject will be at the actual time of release - using calculations
> based on the pattern that a moving object describes on the focus screen.
> The *ist D does not do such calculations, does it? It's not exactly F16
> weapons technolgy :-)
>
> Even if it did, it wouldn't work well when the object is moving very
> directly towards the camera - then there is only VERY little movement to
> calculate (the movement caused by the subject changing it's size as it's
> getting closer or farther away). All  it does is focus on what ever is
> close or has high contrast. It's really just a focus trap -  that is always
> a little bit too late.
>
> Secondly I never let the camera choose the AF point. I always use the point
> in the middle. So, this can't be the reason for my shots beeing unsharp
> either. The only reason I can think of is that it doesn't focus properly on
> moving objects, because it's too slow. When ever the red square appears,
> the object is allready out of focus again, before the shutter fires.
>
> The K10D and the *ist D does have the same generation AF system, according
> to dpreview; the SAFOX VIII.
> I have never heard or read anywhere, that this system had predictive
> autofocus.
>
> The PZ-1 was said to have this (according the the user manual - which says
> about SERVO mode: "The predictive autofocus function is effective in this
> mode"). But I seriously doubt that the camera computer actaully did such
> focus calculations or really is very predictive.
>
> Even if they have just NAMED the servo mode/continuos mode "predictable
> autofucus" - it's still not very fast, is it?
>
> Regards
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> +45 56 63 77 11
> +45 23 43 85 77
> Skype: jensbladt248
>
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af John
> Francis
> Sendt: 27. december 2006 21:12
> Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Emne: Re: *istD AF
>
> On Wed, Dec 27, 2006 at 04:47:49PM +0100, Jens Bladt wrote:
> > Very nice photograph - in fact it's excellent!
> > This was not done with continous AF, was it? Well, at some distance any
> > photograph is always sharp. Only not necessarily where you wnat it to be.
> > In my experience the *istD AF/Continuos AF is not fast enough for
> > anything movuing faster than a walking human. I have pointed this out
> > many times on this list. Other list members allways seem to answer me,
> > that shots like this must be done using MF.
>
> That's a misrepresentation of the history.   When you've posted examples
> in the past, it's often been pointed out to you that the problem lies with
> the selection of the auto-focus point.  The camera is quite capable of
> tracking moving objects at speeds well in excess of humans walking (as
> photographs from myself and Doug Franklin, amongst others, demonstrate).
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: 12/26/2006
>
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Re: *istD AF

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" Subject: Re: *istD AF


>>
>>> I was never happy with the camera-selected AF point.  How can it
>>> possibly
>>> know my composition? I'm the 'pre-focus using center point then
>>> compose
>>> type'.
>>
>> I'd have to go back to the manual to confirm this, but I recall
>> that camera
>> selected AF is the AF point that reads closest to the camera.
>
> It doesn't seem to be quite that simple to my eye, watching the
> behavior when I have complex subject matter I'm framing. Sometimes it
> hits what I want, sometimes not, and the relative distances don't
> seem to be the criteria.

I just had a quick, very informal, look at the AF operation on the K10. In 
autoselect, it seems to prefer the closest object, but by no means is it 
focusing on the closest object all the time.

William Robb 


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Re: *istD AF

[DagT]

You have good manual focus with the Quick shift Limited lenses. You  
can do your fine manual adjustments after the AF has made it´s  
suggestion.

DagT

Den 27. des. 2006 kl. 22.24 skrev J. C. O'Connell:

> It sounds to me that what you both really want
> is good manual focus. Thats what I prefer. AF
> to me it really only good/necessary with action
> where you just cant keep up manually focussing.
> For everything else, which is the majority
> of stuff in my case, I just want really nice, ultra smooth, manual
> focusing lenses. Lenses Pentax doesnt make anymore
> unfortunately. e.g. like the older Pentax K/M type lenses.
> jco
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On  
> Behalf Of
> Godfrey DiGiorgi
> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 3:53 PM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: *istD AF
>
>
> This is why the QuickShift focusing mount is so helpful. Its Canon
> workalike ... full time manual focus ... is one of the details that I
> miss most moving to the Pentax system. With both of them, you let the
> camera focus as well as it can, then just tweak the focus that little
> increment to nail what YOU want perfectly. No fussing around with
> lock and reframe or manipulating the focus point manually ...
>
> This is the primary reason I can't wait for the DA35 and DA55 to be
> released, and why I still consider trading the FA77 for a DA70.
>
> Godfrey
>
> On Dec 27, 2006, at 12:17 PM, Tom C wrote:
>
>> I was never happy with the camera-selected AF point.  How can it
>> possibly
>> know my composition? I'm the 'pre-focus using center point then
>> compose
>> type'.

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RE: *istD AF

[Jens Bladt]

I seem to have read that FPS of the K10D is a tiny bit faster than the D.
Write speed is faster and the buffer is larger.
But the AF system has not changed. It's still SAFOX VIII.
Your shot is excellent. But IMO it's "more an exception than a rule" about
how the D perform action shooting/autofocus.
The fact that some list members use manual focus rather than AF for this
type of shooting seems to confirm this.
Let's face it - Safox VIII is not the fastest or most accurate or most
predictive AF system on this planet

Heck - some Canons use 45 AF points (giving a different meaning to the word
"predictive") as well as two separate micro processors especially dedicated
to the focusing system (This may be the reason why a lot of action shooters
are Canon users).
Pentax does not aim to compete with this at all. If they did, they would
have improved the AF system - to SAFOX IX or X or whatever.

Regards

Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk


-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
Frits Wüthrich
Sendt: 27. december 2006 22:08
Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Emne: Re: *istD AF


On Wednesday 27 December 2006 16:47, Jens Bladt wrote:
> Very nice photograph - in fact it's excellent!
> This was not done with continous AF, was it? Well, at some distance any
> photograph is always sharp. Only not necessarily where you wnat it to be.
> In my experience the *istD AF/Continuos AF is not fast enough for anything

Yes, I used (predictive) continious AF. But drive mode on single frame, if
that is what confuses you. I wait for the decisive moment, rather then take
2.6 frames per second only to find out later I just missed the one shot in
between two frames. A faster FPS would be very welcome though. AF-Single or
manual doesn't work for me, I am not vary able to focus manualy for action
shots.

The photo is a crop of a landscape photo, the height is the full height of
the
land scape frame. Aperture is 6.7, as it can't go larger at a focal length
of
150mm. That does give some more DOF, however focus seems to be spot on.

> movuing faster than a walking human. I have pointed this out many times on
> this list. Other list members allways seem to answer me, that shots like
> this must be done using MF. So, in a way they seem to agree - the AF isn't
> fast enough for action photography. Alone the slow FPS speed indicates
> this. If FPS were sharper the AF would never cope.

Perhaps this is what is different between your shooting style and mine. I
can
imagine there is not much time for focussing after a photograph was made and
the next will be made when the camera is in continuos drive mode.

> In my understanding the K10D is not really faster than the D. Only write
> speed is faster.

That was not my impression, but I will see in a few days.

> I ma looking forward to hearing about your results in this area.
> I wont' be getting my K10D until May 1st. So, I'd like to know.
> What I am looking foreward to is better cropablity, faster write speed and
> Shake Reduction. Still, faster AF would be very nice.
> Regards
> Jens
>
>
> Jens Bladt
> http://www.jensbladt.dk
> +45 56 63 77 11
> +45 23 43 85 77
> Skype: jensbladt248
>
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af
> Frits Wüthrich
> Sendt: 27. december 2006 15:51
> Til: pdml@pdml.net
> Emne: *istD AF
>
>
> With the recent discussion in mind that the K10D AF isn't fast enough for
> football and American football as we call it in the Netherlands, I wanted
> to show a photograph I made of a hockeygame with my *istD on continues
> autofocus, using the FA 100-300 f4.5-5.6, a lens not well respected on
this
> list. This sport is at least as fast as the other ones mentioned, but
there
> are not many photos that go wrong on focus with this combo as long as
there
> is enough light.
> Take a look at:
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~wuthrich/foto/IMGP4879.jpg
> It is a matter of following the action with the shutter halfway down till
> you
> reach the decisive moment. I leave choosing the autofocus point up to the
> camera.
>
> I wonder what my K10D will do for me in this area. It was sent to me on 22
> Dec
> from TeKaDe in Germany, it didn't arrive yet, can be any moment now. I
need
> to start saving for the 60-250 lens.
>
> --
> Frits Wüthrich
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